A vaccine scandal in China causes an outcry

First topic message reminder :

WANG SHENGSHENG, a lawyer who lives in Guangzhou in southern China, is the mother of a newborn baby. The province’s health officials advised her, she says, to have her baby vaccinated not only against tuberculosis and hepatitis-B (which is mandatory) but also against chickenpox, hepatitis-A, meningitis and other diseases, which is not. She did so, and got a hepatitis-A vaccination herself. A few days later, China’s latest medical scandal erupted. The country, it turns out, has been using millions of doses of outdated or improperly stored vaccines for the diseases not covered by the mandatory programme.

Ms Wang did not take this lying down. Shocked by the lack of information about the health implications of receiving faulty vaccines, and concerned that she may have unknowingly endangered her child, she joined 12 other lawyers in writing an open letter to the national government demanding a national investigation and full disclosure into what is fast becoming China’s worst medical scandal since 2008. That year, America’s Food and Drug Administration found that a Chinese manufacturer had been adulterating heparin, an anti-blood-clotting drug. There was also a huge public outcry in China that year when it was revealed that more than 300,000 children had fallen ill and six had died after drinking tainted milk.

The vaccine scandal first came to light a year ago when police in Shandong, an eastern province, arrested a pharmacist and her daughter. Allegedly, they had been buying vaccines that were out of date or about to expire and selling them to hospitals and clinics across the country. “We found the storage space to be a mess,” one of the policemen said. “There were no proper refrigeration facilities.”

At first, the government’s reaction was sluggish to non-existent. The story did not come to widespread notice until March, when a website called The Paper began looking into the case, and the police finally made public what had been going on. Many users of social media denounced the authorities for the scandal and for their slow reaction. China Daily, a state-owned newspaper, said officials had no one to blame except themselves. The open letter from the lawyers in Guangzhou demanded the government check all its records so people could find out whether they had been vaccinated with an out-of-date batch. It also asked who would bear the cost of re-vaccination and what would be done for anyone harmed as a result of receiving the dodgy vaccines.

In all, roughly 2m faulty vaccines are thought to have been sold, for a total of 570m yuan ($90m). The scandal has implicated 29 pharmaceutical firms and 16 health departments. The police are pursuing 69 criminal cases. On March 28th the government finally launched its own investigation under the China Food and Drug Administration. The prime minister, Li Keqiang, said the case had “exposed many regulatory loopholes”.

http://www.economist.com/news/china/21696166-latest-long-line-medical-abuses-reveals-widespread-corruption-dismal-lack


These stories surrounding the negativity of vaccinations are becoming more and more widespread and prevalent.....

eddie wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I agree there are vaccines that are unneccessary, the flu jab being one.

But MMR is not. If EVERYONE stopped getting it then millions would be infected and many of those, maybe a few million, would die. Again.

If we can immunise a disease that HAS killed millions, it is irresponsible to not do so. Eds, are you saying millions NEVER died from measles? Do you think diseases like polio should be vaccinated against?

No problem with the MMR les - I've said this to you countless times.
My problem is that they lump them all together when they don't have to and it's not entirely safe to do so (and we as parents have no choice) and children get sick from this too. It can cause deaths - see many storied from parents that are first-hand eye-witnesses to this (and the links I've posted up)

* And why is it that reputable doctors, doctors who know they'll be ridiculed no less, put themselves in the firing line and come out and say there's something unscrupulous about SOME vaccinations??
Are they all mad? Wrong?

* You're prepared to beleive a doctor until the doctor says something that is seen to be "out of the ordinary"

* Do you know more than these doctors then?

Tell me, why do you believe some doctors and not others?

I'm pro-vaccines, anti them all being given to a baby at the same time.   Had a friend, her little girl had a fever the night of being given a bunch of them, had a fit and went floppy.    My Jackie had a fit after the first lot, so although the others all had their jabs, Jackie didn't have any after that.   She didn't have much strengh in her legs for a long time after, couldn't sit up by herself until she was 18 months and didn't walk until she was gone 3.  It might, or might not, have been the jabs, but my doctor advised me not to let her have anymore, and yes I know Dodge will call me liar as has before.    I don't think they should be giving so many at the same time, and they do it because it is cheaper that way.  If you can afford to do it privately, you can have them separately.

Raggamuffin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

I agree.  And I also agree with her comments about the flu jabs.

I don't know if people get bullied about the flu jab as such. I've been advised to have one, but I wasn't bullied into having one, and I declined. The evidence about the flu jab is largely anecdotal, but I just know so many people who said they had it and then got flu, so it either didn't work or the jab itself gave them flu.

I've had the flu jab a few times, and it didn't work.  In fact, it made me ill.  So I decline now.  I think it's a money making scheme.

sassy wrote:

eddie wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I agree there are vaccines that are unneccessary, the flu jab being one.

But MMR is not. If EVERYONE stopped getting it then millions would be infected and many of those, maybe a few million, would die. Again.

If we can immunise a disease that HAS killed millions, it is irresponsible to not do so. Eds, are you saying millions NEVER died from measles? Do you think diseases like polio should be vaccinated against?

No problem with the MMR les - I've said this to you countless times.
My problem is that they lump them all together when they don't have to and it's not entirely safe to do so (and we as parents have no choice) and children get sick from this too. It can cause deaths - see many storied from parents that are first-hand eye-witnesses to this (and the links I've posted up)

* And why is it that reputable doctors, doctors who know they'll be ridiculed no less, put themselves in the firing line and come out and say there's something unscrupulous about SOME vaccinations??
Are they all mad? Wrong?

* You're prepared to beleive a doctor until the doctor says something that is seen to be "out of the ordinary"

* Do you know more than these doctors then?

Tell me, why do you believe some doctors and not others?

I'm pro-vaccines, anti them all being given to a baby at the same time.   Had a friend, her little girl had a fever the night of being given a bunch of them, had a fit and went floppy.    My Jackie had a fit after the first lot, so although the others all had their jabs, Jackie didn't have any after that.   She didn't have much strengh in her legs for a long time after, couldn't sit up by herself until she was 18 months and didn't walk until she was gone 3.  It might, or might not, have been the jabs, but my doctor advised me not to let her have anymore, and yes I know Dodge will call me liar as has before.    I don't think they should be giving so many at the same time, and they do it because it is cheaper that way.  If you can afford to do it privately, you can have them separately.

Lots of stories just like yours and I actually remember you posting this as way back as Sky forums on a story just like the OP, so I do believe you - and ALL the other mothers around the world with the same stories and all the older people who've had the flu jab too.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't know if people get bullied about the flu jab as such. I've been advised to have one, but I wasn't bullied into having one, and I declined. The evidence about the flu jab is largely anecdotal, but I just know so many people who said they had it and then got flu, so it either didn't work or the jab itself gave them flu.

I've had the flu jab a few times, and it didn't work.  In fact, it made me ill.  So I decline now.  I think it's a money making scheme.

So many people have said the same thing.

I suppose it's a gamble. The idea for some people is that they should have the flu jab because if they do get flu, they might have complications because of a pre-existing condition or immune problem. If they don't have the jab and then they get flu, they might wish they'd had the jab, but if they have the jab and then get flu, they'll wish they hadn't.

sassy wrote:

eddie wrote:

No problem with the MMR les - I've said this to you countless times.
My problem is that they lump them all together when they don't have to and it's not entirely safe to do so (and we as parents have no choice) and children get sick from this too. It can cause deaths - see many storied from parents that are first-hand eye-witnesses to this (and the links I've posted up)

* And why is it that reputable doctors, doctors who know they'll be ridiculed no less, put themselves in the firing line and come out and say there's something unscrupulous about SOME vaccinations??
Are they all mad? Wrong?

* You're prepared to beleive a doctor until the doctor says something that is seen to be "out of the ordinary"

* Do you know more than these doctors then?

Tell me, why do you believe some doctors and not others?

I'm pro-vaccines, anti them all being given to a baby at the same time.   Had a friend, her little girl had a fever the night of being given a bunch of them, had a fit and went floppy.    My Jackie had a fit after the first lot, so although the others all had their jabs, Jackie didn't have any after that.   She didn't have much strengh in her legs for a long time after, couldn't sit up by herself until she was 18 months and didn't walk until she was gone 3.  It might, or might not, have been the jabs, but my doctor advised me not to let her have anymore, and yes I know Dodge will call me liar as has before.    I don't think they should be giving so many at the same time, and they do it because it is cheaper that way.  If you can afford to do it privately, you can have them separately.

Yes, this is the sort of thing I read about. Although there's no evidence to say that the vaccines did cause a problem, I don't see the sense in insisting on multiple vaccines if someone's worried about it.

I took a big risk last year not having the flu jab because I'm always advised to because of my CLL.  However, I always get a very swollen painful arm for a few days and nearly always end up in bed with flu like symptoms, one year feeling very ill.  So this year I didn't.   So far, so good.  Have had loads of other things, but no flu.

The flu jab can't actually replicate in the body because it's a dead virus. Then again, it's the immune reaction to the flu virus which causes most of the symptoms anyway, so some people may well get symptoms.

I'm not allowed live vaccines Rags, absolutely forbidden.

sassy wrote:I'm not allowed live vaccines Rags, absolutely forbidden.

Yes - I can't have them either Sassy.

Don't know about you, but I always make them double check before having anything.  They will blithely tell you it's not a live vaccine, then when they check, it is.  Had that about the swine flu one.

sassy wrote:I took a big risk last year not having the flu jab because I'm always advised to because of my CLL.  However, I always get a very swollen painful arm for a few days and nearly always end up in bed with flu like symptoms, one year feeling very ill.  So this year I didn't.   So far, so good.  Have had loads of other things, but no flu.

Never bothered saying this before but years ago I was a home help to an elderly couple, bet and John. They were adorable and I loved working for them.
Bet had a flu jab and got some weird autoimmune disease straight after (really horrible she nearly died and was ill for evermore, will look up the name it's odd...)
Anyway, whilst in hospital, and this is what was told to me so I'm only repeating, Bet asked the consultant what had caused her illness and he said "probably the flu jab. No one will say it of course but we see cases like yours on a monthly and often weekly basis" she asked him why in earth people were still being given the flu jab and he laughed "it's a big money spinner like everything else"

Now I'll googled he illness. Can't remember off the top of my head but I'll know it when I see it

sassy wrote:Don't know about you, but I always make them double check before having anything.  They will blithely tell you it's not a live vaccine, then when they check, it is.  Had that about the swine flu one.

I haven't had a vaccination for years anyway. Any info I want, I get it from the internet anyway - not from quackery sites of course.

eddie wrote:

sassy wrote:I took a big risk last year not having the flu jab because I'm always advised to because of my CLL.  However, I always get a very swollen painful arm for a few days and nearly always end up in bed with flu like symptoms, one year feeling very ill.  So this year I didn't.   So far, so good.  Have had loads of other things, but no flu.

Never bothered saying this before but years ago I was a home help to an elderly couple, bet and John. They were adorable and I loved working for them.
Bet had a flu jab and got some weird autoimmune disease straight after (really horrible she nearly died and was ill for evermore, will look up the name it's odd...)
Anyway, whilst in hospital, and this is what was told to me so I'm only repeating, Bet asked the consultant what had caused her illness and he said "probably the flu jab. No one will say it of course but we see cases like yours on a monthly and often weekly basis" she asked him why in earth people were still being given the flu jab and he laughed "it's a big money spinner like everything else"

Now I'll googled he illness. Can't remember off the top of my head but I'll know it when I see it

The Lancet has done a paper on the link between vaccines and auto-immune disease

http://image.thelancet.com/extras/02art9340web.pdf

eddie wrote:

sassy wrote:I took a big risk last year not having the flu jab because I'm always advised to because of my CLL.  However, I always get a very swollen painful arm for a few days and nearly always end up in bed with flu like symptoms, one year feeling very ill.  So this year I didn't.   So far, so good.  Have had loads of other things, but no flu.

Never bothered saying this before but years ago I was a home help to an elderly couple, bet and John. They were adorable and I loved working for them.
Bet had a flu jab and got some weird autoimmune disease straight after (really horrible she nearly died and was ill for evermore, will look up the name it's odd...)
Anyway, whilst in hospital, and this is what was told to me so I'm only repeating, Bet asked the consultant what had caused her illness and he said "probably the flu jab. No one will say it of course but we see cases like yours on a monthly and often weekly basis" she asked him why in earth people were still being given the flu jab and he laughed "it's a big money spinner like everything else"

Now I'll googled he illness. Can't remember off the top of my head but I'll know it when I see it

Guillain-Barre Syndrome?

There is talk that some flu vaccines are linked to Guillain-Barre syndrome, but there's no conclusive evidence.

There's also a possibility that some flu vaccines can cause narcolepsy.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/10/boy-wins-120000-damages-narcolepsy-swine-flu-vaccine-glaxosmithkline

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain–Barré_syndrome

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:

sassy wrote:I took a big risk last year not having the flu jab because I'm always advised to because of my CLL.  However, I always get a very swollen painful arm for a few days and nearly always end up in bed with flu like symptoms, one year feeling very ill.  So this year I didn't.   So far, so good.  Have had loads of other things, but no flu.

Never bothered saying this before but years ago I was a home help to an elderly couple, bet and John. They were adorable and I loved working for them.
Bet had a flu jab and got some weird autoimmune disease straight after (really horrible she nearly died and was ill for evermore, will look up the name it's odd...)
Anyway, whilst in hospital, and this is what was told to me so I'm only repeating, Bet asked the consultant what had caused her illness and he said "probably the flu jab. No one will say it of course but we see cases like yours on a monthly and often weekly basis" she asked him why in earth people were still being given the flu jab and he laughed "it's a big money spinner like everything else"

Now I'll googled he illness. Can't remember off the top of my head but I'll know it when I see it

Guillain-Barre Syndrome?

That's it!! Just asked my mum as she's got a good memory

That is such a nasty disease.

sassy wrote:That is such a nasty disease.

Yes it pretty much rendered her lame.

That's rotten, poor woman.

As a public worker, we are advised to get flu jabs every year and I do mostly. This year I skipped cause I was on antibiotics for sinus thing and then I forgot. Knock wood I haven't caught it. Usually my arm is sore and I'm a bit under the weather for a day but that's it.

Everybody is different. Some will gave a reaction some won't.

Eds -I do gave a kid that is vmof vaccinating age. According yo Arizona laws he had to have boosters to start college in August last year and hecwas fine apart from a sore arm.

I don't think they should be given together but they do need to be given.

I honestly do believe that children who seem to develop major problems from vaccines already had an underlying disease/illness/disability and that when it shows up - desperate patents who feel guilty as hell are looming for an answer or reason as to why this happened and when there isn't sn answer they latch onto the vaccine.

Maybe Cass, but we don't know that for certain, do we?

eddie wrote:Maybe Cass, but we don't know that for certain, do we?

No its mostly anecdotal but as Les has said there is massive amounts of medical and scientific proof that vaccines do work.

Exactly Cass, the eradication of many diseases speaks for itself.

One is more than enough.

Nobody is saying NOT To vaccinate the MMR - it's about the AMOUNT they do in ONE shot!! The cocktail of vaccines in one shot is TOO MANY in the MMR

Perhaps I haven't said it enough times, perhaps 100 times isn't enough.

eddie wrote:One is more than enough.

Nobody is saying NOT  To vaccinate the MMR  - it's about the AMOUNT they do in ONE shot!! The cocktail of vaccines in one shot is TOO MANY in the MMR

Perhaps I haven't said it enough times, perhaps 100 times isn't enough.

Perhaps because what you claim has no scientific bearing and misleads others also.
The worst part is your conception that doctors just give this out without any due care.
If they thought for one moment it was harmful in so many doses they clearly would not do so.
I mean seriously do you think doctors are there to cause or harm or help people?

eddie wrote:One is more than enough.

Nobody is saying NOT  To vaccinate the MMR  - it's about the AMOUNT they do in ONE shot!! The cocktail of vaccines in one shot is TOO MANY in the MMR

Perhaps I haven't said it enough times, perhaps 100 times isn't enough.

I always thought that the fact Tony Blair got his youngest vaccinated separately was significant .

Miffs2 wrote:

eddie wrote:One is more than enough.

Nobody is saying NOT  To vaccinate the MMR  - it's about the AMOUNT they do in ONE shot!! The cocktail of vaccines in one shot is TOO MANY in the MMR

Perhaps I haven't said it enough times, perhaps 100 times isn't enough.

I always thought that the fact Tony Blair got his youngest vaccinated separately was significant .

Really based on suspicious mindset?

Again why is it people would believe that doctors who set out to help people would in fact create harm to them
Not only does it make no sense but it shows the levels of paranoia that set into some poeple

Really based on suspicious mindset?


I don't know why he did it Didge.

Miffs2 wrote:Really based on suspicious mindset?


I don't know why he did it Didge.

So why does that then lead you yo believe its significant?

That is being suspicious

didge wrote:

Miffs2 wrote:Really based on suspicious mindset?


I don't know why he did it Didge.

So why does that then lead you yo believe its significant?

That is being suspicious

Apart from it being Tony Blair you mean?!

Miffs2 wrote:

didge wrote:

So why does that then lead you yo believe its significant?

That is being suspicious

Apart from it being Tony Blair you mean?!

What does that matter?
You see you are even more going off a paranoia.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/jun/02/liam-donaldson-tony-leo-blair-mmr

eddie wrote:One is more than enough.

Nobody is saying NOT  To vaccinate the MMR  - it's about the AMOUNT they do in ONE shot!! The cocktail of vaccines in one shot is TOO MANY in the MMR

Perhaps I haven't said it enough times, perhaps 100 times isn't enough.

I hope that is not in response to my posts cause i am just posting things i thought were funny

veya_victaous wrote:

eddie wrote:One is more than enough.

Nobody is saying NOT  To vaccinate the MMR  - it's about the AMOUNT they do in ONE shot!! The cocktail of vaccines in one shot is TOO MANY in the MMR

Perhaps I haven't said it enough times, perhaps 100 times isn't enough.

I hope that is not in response to my posts cause i am just posting things i thought were funny