Magistrate sacked over views on adoption to same sex couples plans legal action

Richard Page, 69, who served as a magistrate in Kent, told the BBC last year it would be better for a man and a woman to be the adopted parents.

The Judicial Conduct Investigations Office deemed this serious misconduct.

His lawyers say they will bring an employment tribunal for discrimination over his religious beliefs.

Mr Page, who served in Sevenoaks and Maidstone, sat on the Kent Central family panel and was a magistrate for 15 years. He was sacked earlier this month.

This followed a BBC interview in March 2015 in which he had said that it was his duty as a magistrate to act on the evidence alone, and that there had not yet been a proper analysis of the effects that placing children with same-sex couples had on the child's well-being.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-35796557


A child is better off in a stable home environment with a mother and a father... so it stands to reason that an adopted child should only be placed in the best environment for them too, which would be with mother and my father adoptive parents.

This man is spot on.

Good thing he was sacked, as his views were based on an opinion and not facts

If a person has a bias, then they are unfit to hear cases that directly effect adoption.

buuuullll shit again from tommy....

where is your evidence that

"A child is better off in a stable home environment with a mother and a father"

as opposed to


A child is better off in a stable home environment ??????

Not only the the man a bigot, he is also very badly educated in things that effect the job he is supposed to do.  There are numerous studies that show children do just as well with same sex couples:

http://journalistsresource.org/studies/society/gender-society/same-sex-marriage-children-well-being-research-roundup

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/514477

http://www.lgbtadoptfosterweek.org.uk/adoption/new-uk-study-shows-children-adopted-by-same-sex-couples-thriving-2/

http://www.apa.org/about/policy/parenting.aspx

http://www.medicaldaily.com/study-finds-same-sex-couples-make-better-parents-it-because-theyre-more-prepared-291628

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/07/children-of-same-sex-couples-are-happier-and-healthier-than-peers-research-shows/

It is obvious to those who wish to see that children are better off in a man woman marriage, have a proper mum and dad,]EDITED for homophobic content .]
White kids to white male and female, black kids to black male and female, that is sensible.

Common sense prevails no need for evidence made up by aerosol who will change their mindz it a few years.


your first warning from me stormee.....
LF

funny though tommy

you would cry like a stuck pig id we allowed a Muslim magistrate to order the removal of a mans head...because that was his religious belief....

Lord Foul wrote:funny though tommy

you would cry like a stuck pig id we allowed a Muslim magistrate to order the removal of a mans head...because that was his religious belief....

We should NOT have Muzzi magistrates on our island.

get used to it....

the point is religious beliefs have no place in law......

Lord Foul wrote:get used to it....

the point is religious beliefs have no place in law......

Too true!

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research





And Vic... he said he was basing his judgement on the evidence alone... although he was then sacked because the authorities tried to claim it was because of his religious bias... so he is now bringing a claim of religious discrimination...


His evidence based decision has been twisted into a religious based decision by the authorities on their desire to sack him for doing what he genuinely believes is in the best interests of the child and for not bowing down to the progressive pc agenda...


If they are going to try to sack him because of his perfectly reasonable religious beliefs and only because of that... then that is definitely a case of religious discrimination!!!

Lord Foul wrote:get used to it....

the point is religious beliefs have no place in law......

I will NEVER get used to it.

Can you not see the danger we are lazily, speddily going headlong into?
muziz are not of any benefit to us islanderz.

I hope he winz his case and getz a golden egg.

Tommy Monk wrote:

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research





And Vic... he said he was basing his judgement on the evidence alone... although he was then sacked because the authorities tried to claim it was because of his religious bias... so he is now bringing a claim of religious discrimination...


His evidence based decision has been twisted into a religious based decision by the authorities on their desire to sack him for doing what he genuinely believes is in the best interests of the child and for not bowing down to the progressive pc agenda...


If they are going to try to sack him because of his perfectly reasonable religious beliefs and only because of that... then that is definitely a case of religious discrimination!!!

the Family research council

thats as amusing as didge and ragga quoting PETA as a "reliable/unbiased source"



Sorry tommy ...you have just destroyed any slight credibility you may have had......

Lord Foul wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research





And Vic... he said he was basing his judgement on the evidence alone... although he was then sacked because the authorities tried to claim it was because of his religious bias... so he is now bringing a claim of religious discrimination...


His evidence based decision has been twisted into a religious based decision by the authorities on their desire to sack him for doing what he genuinely believes is in the best interests of the child and for not bowing down to the progressive pc agenda...


If they are going to try to sack him because of his perfectly reasonable religious beliefs and only because of that... then that is definitely a case of religious discrimination!!!

the Family research council  

thats as amusing as didge and ragga quoting PETA as a "reliable/unbiased source"



Sorry tommy ...you have just destroyed any slight credibility you may have had......

How rude  

How dare you equate my methods on a parity to Tommy..

I shall never ever be able to live with the shame

That was only a link to a site that was showing the details of the study... I doubt very much that any pro gay Web site would be showing much about it...


Why do you think that might be...!!!???


Bias maybe...!?







But anyway...



"Using a new, “gold standard” data set of nearly 3,000 randomly selected American young adults, Mr. Regneruslooked at their lives on 40 measures of social, emotional and relationship outcomes.

He found that, when compared with adults raised in married, mother-father families, adults raised by lesbian mothers had negative outcomes in 24 of 40 categories, while adults raised by gay fathers had negative outcomes in 19 categories.

Findings such as these do not support claims that there are “no differences” between gay parenting and heterosexual, married parents, said Mr. Regnerus, who helped develop the New Family Structures Study at the university.


Instead, “children appear most apt to succeed well as adults when they spend their entire childhood with their married mother and father, and especially when the parents remain married to the present day,” he wrote.

Mr. Regnerus‘ study of 2,988 persons ages 18 to 39 — including 175 adults raised by lesbian mothers and 73 adults raised by gay fathers — marks the first research from the new dataset, which initially included some 15,000 persons."


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/10/study-children-fare-better-traditional-mom-dad-fam/?page=all

Regnerus and Marks published their pieces together, but Marks cited Regnerus’ paper, so he clearly had foreknowledge of its conclusions. This suggests it is likely they intentionally published simultaneously as a “one-two election year punch.”
Marks was originally called to testify in favor of Proposition 8, but admitted in deposition that he only had read parts of the studies from which he drew conclusions and had considered no research on gay and lesbian parents. His present research, published just two years later, attempts to make the same claims.
Marks also made his paper available for the House Republican legal team defending the Defense of Marriage Act long before it was published in a peer-reviewed journal.
There are multiple obvious ties between NOM co-founder Robert George, the Witherspoon Institute (which funded Regnerus’ research), Baylor Institute for Studies of Religion (which is defending the research), National Review (where NOM’s Maggie Gallagher frequently writes and where she has promoted the paper), and Mark Regnerus himself, suggesting particularly convenient collusion for spinning the political implications of the paper’s publication.


not biased at all are they

your source.........


is a dung heap.......

TOMMY>>>>>>>

Lord Foul wrote:your source.........


is a dung heap.......

TOMMY>>>>>>>

Not only is he still falling into a bottomless pit but failing to explain how and why many children have grown up healthy, happy and wonderful, being raised by gay parents.

Or maybe the pro gay 'studies'are biased and this is just telling it how it is...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:Or maybe the pro gay 'studies'are biased and this is just telling it how it is...!?

Are the children raised by gay parents lying then, why they are healthy, happy etc?

Tommy Monk wrote:That was only a link to a site that was showing the details of the study... I doubt very much that any pro gay Web site would be showing much about it...
Why do you think that might be...!!!???
Bias maybe...!?

But anyway...
"Using a new, “gold standard” data set of nearly 3,000 randomly selected American young adults, Mr. Regneruslooked at their lives on 40 measures of social, emotional and relationship outcomes.

He found that, when compared with adults raised in married, mother-father families, adults raised by lesbian mothers had negative outcomes in 24 of 40 categories, while adults raised by gay fathers had negative outcomes in 19 categories.

Findings such as these do not support claims that there are “no differences” between gay parenting and heterosexual, married parents, said Mr. Regnerus, who helped develop the New Family Structures Study at the university.

Instead, “children appear most apt to succeed well as adults when they spend their entire childhood with their married mother and father, and especially when the parents remain married to the present day,” he wrote.

Mr. Regnerus‘ study of 2,988 persons ages 18 to 39 — including 175 adults raised by lesbian mothers and 73 adults raised by gay fathers — marks the first research from the new dataset, which initially included some 15,000 persons."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/10/study-children-fare-better-traditional-mom-dad-fam/?page=all

 
   Your lame & feeble attempt to provide just a section of your own link...well it only proves how low you will stoop to try to make a point.

The second study, also in Social Science Research, takes a critical look at the basis of an oft-cited American Psychological Association (APA) report on gay parenting.
The APA brief says, “Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents,” said Loren Marks, associate professor at the School of Human Ecology at Louisiana State University.

However, after looking at the 59 studies that undergird this assertion, “the jury is still out,” Mr. Marks said. “The lack of high-quality data leaves the most significant questions [about gay parenting] unaddressed and unanswered.”

And since this "STUDY" was done in a state that has had numerous issues with the LGBT agenda and policies that our government has passed --- not a huge surprise that
1.) the data will take longer then just the past 5 years to compare
2.) that given the LGBT communities have just been awarded the right to 'MARRY'; it's not a stretch of the imagination that the ability to 'ADOPT' has been thwarted also!

So certainly the "Jury Is Still Out"...

and maybe that one.....single...study you have "produced".....

is biased, and made to fit an agenda

lets face it tommy...the originators are not exactly "agenda clean" are they

and wheras you can only provide on , biased study backed by R/W christian organisations

there are plenty of other studies out there..not all of which are produced under the direction of gay groups, that say the complete opposite....

"Using a new, “gold standard” data set of nearly 3,000 randomly selected American young adults, Mr. Regneruslooked at their lives on 40 measures of social, emotional and relationship outcomes.

He found that, when compared with adults raised in married, mother-father families, adults raised by lesbian mothers had negative outcomes in 24 of 40 categories, while adults raised by gay fathers had negative outcomes in 19 categories..."



So a study shows things that you don't want to believe... so it must be wrong...!?


OK...

Tommy Monk wrote:
"Using a new, “gold standard” data set of nearly 3,000 randomly selected American young adults, Mr. Regneruslooked at their lives on 40 measures of social, emotional and relationship outcomes.

He found that, when compared with adults raised in married, mother-father families, adults raised by lesbian mothers had negative outcomes in 24 of 40 categories, while adults raised by gay fathers had negative outcomes in 19 categories..."



So a study shows things that you don't want to believe... so it must be wrong...!?


OK...

Explain why countless children raised by gay parents, are happy, healthy etc?

“Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents,” said Loren Marks, associate professor at the School of Human Ecology at Louisiana State University.

However, after looking at the 59 studies that undergird this assertion, “the jury is still out,” Mr. Marks said. “The lack of high-quality data leaves the most significant questions [about gay parenting] unaddressed and unanswered.”





But the study I highlighted is much more robust... the findings are therefore much more credible!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:“Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents,” said Loren Marks, associate professor at the School of Human Ecology at Louisiana State University.

However, after looking at the 59 studies that undergird this assertion, “the jury is still out,” Mr. Marks said. “The lack of high-quality data leaves the most significant questions [about gay parenting] unaddressed and unanswered.”





But the study I highlighted is much more robust... the findings are therefore much more credible!!!

Explain why countless children raised by gay parents, are happy, healthy etc?

Also explain why countless children raised by single parents, are happy, healthy etc?

Tommy Monk wrote:“Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents,” said Loren Marks, associate professor at the School of Human Ecology at Louisiana State University.

However, after looking at the 59 studies that undergird this assertion, “the jury is still out,” Mr. Marks said. “The lack of high-quality data leaves the most significant questions [about gay parenting] unaddressed and unanswered.”





But the study I highlighted is much more robust... the findings are therefore much more credible!!!

rubbish...the authours are patently biased.....

therfore it has NO credibility


you only find credible what you want to....even if it isnt...

Stormee wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:get used to it....

the point is religious beliefs have no place in law......

I will NEVER get used to it.

Can you not see the danger we are lazily, speddily going headlong into?
muziz are not of any benefit to us islanderz.

You Beter cause Most of us Dont want YOU on our Planet Fuckwit
 

Get it through Your HEAD there is NO YOUR island anymore!!
it is OUR planet and we Will destroy EVERY single Fuckwit that thinks like you.
Dont care if it is You or ISIS to me you are the same. the Quicker you are removed from existance the better.

Tommy Monk wrote:“Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents,” said Loren Marks, associate professor at the School of Human Ecology at Louisiana State University.
However, after looking at the 59 studies that undergird this assertion, “the jury is still out,” Mr. Marks said. “The lack of high-quality data leaves the most significant questions [about gay parenting] unaddressed and unanswered.”

But the study I highlighted is much more robust... the findings are therefore much more credible!!!

Sweet Jesus, Tommy; this is headed in the same 'down the drain' method that your feeble attempt at denying global warming, went! 

There's 'NO' there - there; but you want to use a fragmented based minute article that is only able to pull a sliver of data from a small segment of a 'HIGHLY RED-NECKED BIASED STATE' and try to use it as the concrete --- "This is it folks" --- I've found the holy grail of facts!!! 

Did you really thing that the adults here would buy that BS...your spinning in the wind; yet again and it's just making you look foolish!

planet Fuckwit...?????


where's that ..????

veya_victaous wrote:

Stormee wrote:

I will NEVER get used to it.

Can you not see the danger we are lazily, speddily going headlong into?
muziz are not of any benefit to us islanderz.

You Beter cause Most of us Dont want YOU on our Planet Fuckwit
 

Get it through Your HEAD there is NO YOUR island anymore!!
it is OUR planet and we Will destroy EVERY single Fuckwit that thinks like you.
Dont care if it is You or ISIS to me you are the same. the Quicker you are removed from existance the better.

Wow, so hate and wishing people not to be here helps in what way exactly?

His views are poor, but you do not help bring about change with hate

You end up further dividing society.

His views are backwards on people, but he has a right to express them without being targeted with hate by people like you

You are basically wishing him dead, which is far worse than any of his views

You lefties have no idea of coexistence, I mean are you going to tell many Muslims that hate homosexuality, they also should not exists, or is your bigotry only confined to those with far right views?

veya_victaous wrote:

Stormee wrote:

I will NEVER get used to it.

Can you not see the danger we are lazily, speddily going headlong into?
muziz are not of any benefit to us islanderz.

You Beter cause Most of us Dont want YOU on our Planet Fuckwit
 

What Hitler said to the Jews, homosexuals, the disabled, the Slavs etc

veya_victaous wrote:it is OUR planet and we Will destroy EVERY single Fuckwit that thinks like you.

What Hitler said to the Jews, homosexuals, the disabled, the Slavs etc

Go figure

veya_victaous wrote:

Stormee wrote:
I will NEVER get used to it.
Can you not see the danger we are lazily, speddily going headlong into?
muziz are not of any benefit to us islanderz.

You Beter cause Most of us Dont want YOU on our Planet Fuckwit
 

Get it through Your HEAD there is NO YOUR island anymore!!
it is OUR planet and we Will destroy EVERY single Fuckwit that thinks like you.
Dont care if it is You or ISIS to me you are the same. the Quicker you are removed from existance the better.

  

Here's a 'NEED TO KNOW QUESTION' for the ilk of the 'I HATE THE LGBT PEOPLE'...
whom do you BLAME for giving birth - having consensual sex - hooking up; where did all of those LGBT humans come from??? 

Your first 3 guesses won't count ???  ---
Yipper, all of you horrified/sanctimonious lesser thinking humanoids --- they were bred and born from HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES...just like you STORMEE! 

aspca4ever wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

You Beter cause Most of us Dont want YOU on our Planet Fuckwit
 

Get it through Your HEAD there is NO YOUR island anymore!!
it is OUR planet and we Will destroy EVERY single Fuckwit that thinks like you.
Dont care if it is You or ISIS to me you are the same. the Quicker you are removed from existance the better.

  

Here's a 'NEED TO KNOW QUESTION' for the ilk of the 'I HATE THE LGBT PEOPLE'...
whom do you BLAME for giving birth - having consensual sex - hooking up; where did all of those LGBT humans come from??? 

Your first 3 guesses won't count ???  ---
Yipper, all of you horrified/sanctimonious lesser thinking humanoids --- they were bred and born from HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES...just like you STORMEE! 

And how is your hate of people who do not like homosexuality any different?


Is it based on a double standard where your venom and dislike only extend to those with far right political views.

Or do you extend this hate to all those with religious views hostile to homosexuality?

You see the left mindset is based also on what they are claiming of others,. hostility and hate.

Stromee is wrong on his views, but that does not mean he should be wished to cease to exist

And you wonder why more people are voting to the right, they are finally waking up to the extremist lefties in our societies

Lord Foul wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:“Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents,” said Loren Marks, associate professor at the School of Human Ecology at Louisiana State University.

However, after looking at the 59 studies that undergird this assertion, “the jury is still out,” Mr. Marks said. “The lack of high-quality data leaves the most significant questions [about gay parenting] unaddressed and unanswered.”





But the study I highlighted is much more robust... the findings are therefore much more credible!!!

rubbish...the authours are patently biased.....

therfore it has NO credibility


you only find credible what you want to....even if it isnt...

Back at you for the pro gay studies...!



But given the obvious level of doubt on children's welfare when adopted out to anything other than a stable home environment with a mother and a father... wouldn't it be prudent and in the best interests of the child to only be placed in an environment that we know to be good rather than in one that is not proven to be good and is in fact shown to be highly possible to be bad...!?

Troll #1 spewed > And how is your hate of people who do not like homosexuality any different?
Is it based on a double standard where your venom and dislike only extend to those with far right political views.
Or do you extend this hate to all those with religious views hostile to homosexuality?
You see the left mindset is based also on what they are claiming of others,. hostility and hate.
Stromee is wrong on his views, but that does not mean he should be wished to cease to exist
And you wonder why more people are voting to the right, they are finally waking up to the extremist lefties in our societies

Per your usual method of 'TWISTING' what the adults say into something that suits YOUR method for childish yammer; WRONG YET AGAIN, WEE-LITTLE CHILD.

1.) you can't stay on the topic
2.) you preach to everyone about "HOW TOO" but you just can't manage to "DO THAT"
3.) you jump in and make feeble attempts to PROTECT YOUR PACK - regardless of how F'd up they are and they're comments: 'I'm so confused' thought process is/was/will be
4.) I'll just put your sorry arse right back on ignore --- because you have zero value - you just live to preach the BS - and you're still as immature as ever! 

And a Fuck Wit of supreme accomplishments as well.  Congrats

aspca4ever wrote:

Troll #1 spewed > And how is your hate of people who do not like homosexuality any different?
Is it based on a double standard where your venom and dislike only extend to those with far right political views.
Or do you extend this hate to all those with religious views hostile to homosexuality?
You see the left mindset is based also on what they are claiming of others,. hostility and hate.
Stromee is wrong on his views, but that does not mean he should be wished to cease to exist
And you wonder why more people are voting to the right, they are finally waking up to the extremist lefties in our societies

Per your usual method of 'TWISTING' what the adults say into something that suits YOUR method for childish yammer; WRONG YET AGAIN, WEE-LITTLE CHILD.

1.) you can't stay on the topic
2.) you preach to everyone about "HOW TOO" but you just can't manage to "DO THAT"
3.) you jump in and make feeble attempts to PROTECT YOUR PACK - regardless of how F'd up they are and they're comments: 'I'm so confused' thought process is/was/will be
4.) I'll just put your sorry arse right back on ignore --- because you have zero value - you just live to preach the BS - and you're still as immature as ever! 

And a Fuck Wit of supreme accomplishments as well.  Congrats

Which is proving why you are immature and cannot answer my points
You jumped on a post by Veya, which wished a poster dead to further antagonize

So you are really showing how childish you are being

So try again


And how is your hate of people who do not like homosexuality any different?


Is it based on a double standard where your venom and dislike only extend to those with far right political views.

Or do you extend this hate to all those with religious views hostile to homosexuality?

You see the left mindset is based also on what they are claiming of others,. hostility and hate.

Stromee is wrong on his views, but that does not mean he should be wished to cease to exist

And you wonder why more people are voting to the right, they are finally waking up to the extremist lefties in our societies

veya_victaous wrote:

Stormee wrote:

I will NEVER get used to it.

Can you not see the danger we are lazily, speddily going headlong into?
muziz are not of any benefit to us islanderz.

You Beter cause Most of us Dont want YOU on our Planet Fuckwit
 

Get it through Your HEAD there is NO YOUR island anymore!!
it is OUR planet and we Will destroy EVERY single Fuckwit that thinks like you.
Dont care if it is You or ISIS to me you are the same. the Quicker you are removed from existance the better.

Have a greenie, he's too stupid to see that he's as much an extremist as ISIS and ridding the planet of extremists would make the world a much better place.

sassy wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

You Beter cause Most of us Dont want YOU on our Planet Fuckwit
 

Get it through Your HEAD there is NO YOUR island anymore!!
it is OUR planet and we Will destroy EVERY single Fuckwit that thinks like you.
Dont care if it is You or ISIS to me you are the same. the Quicker you are removed from existance the better.

Have a greenie, he's too stupid to see that he's as much an extremist as ISIS and ridding the planet of extremists would make the world a much better place.

Why would you praise a post that wishes someone to cease to exist?

You do not change beliefs through genocide, but through reason

And sassy... you're too stupid to realise how that makes you an extremist...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:And sassy... you're too stupid to realise how that makes you an extremist...!!!

And dear - dear infantile young Tommy;

I'll gladly and forever stand on the opposite side of the 'ILK' like you and Stormee when it comes to shoving your utter ignorant POV out towards other humans that have and should ALWAYS have had the same EQUALITY - RIGHTS to all social order issues that you and I do!

Tommy Monk wrote:And sassy... you're too stupid to realise how that makes you an extremist...!!!

OK, so being opposed to extremists OF ANY SIDE, makes me an extremist.  Your 'logic' as normal Tommy, simply doesn't exist.

aspca4ever wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:And sassy... you're too stupid to realise how that makes you an extremist...!!!

And dear - dear infantile young Tommy;

I'll gladly and forever stand on the opposite side of the 'ILK' like you and Stormee when it comes to shoving your utter ignorant POV out towards other humans that have and should ALWAYS have had the same EQUALITY - RIGHTS to all social order issues that you and I do!

Please do grow up

You constantly jump on threads to stir and goad and its getting boring now

sassy wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:And sassy... you're too stupid to realise how that makes you an extremist...!!!

OK, so being opposed to extremists OF ANY SIDE, makes me an extremist.  Your 'logic' as normal Tommy, simply doesn't exist.

So you are opposed to yourself...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:

sassy wrote:


OK, so being opposed to extremists OF ANY SIDE, makes me an extremist.  Your 'logic' as normal Tommy, simply doesn't exist.

So you are opposed to yourself...!?

Dear oh dear, dust off THE brain cell.

So where there was a decent debate, it has now descended to immaturity, just because people hold different opinion.

All this started by one poster being so disgusting, they wished someone to cease to exist, which in turn brought in others to be as hateful.

Nobody should with death on anyone and more than anything, it's just childish.

Sassy... you have just backed a view that all people who don't hold the same views as you should be exterminated!!!


Then you said that you are against extremists of any kind!!!


Is this another example of the lefties 'quantum thinking'...!?