This Is what happens when Leftist Governments Do Not Listen To the Genuine Concerns of People

The party of German Chancellor Angela Merkel has suffered defeats in two of three states holding regional elections, exit polls suggest.
They indicate the Christian Democrats lost support in Baden-Wuerttemberg and Rhineland Palatinate, but remain the largest party in Saxony-Anhalt.
The anti-migrant AfD achieved gains in all three states, exit polls indicate.
The elections were seen as a test of support for Chancellor Merkel's policy of accommodating refugees.
More than a million migrants and refugees entered Germany in 2015.
German power is the real key to Europe
Migrant crisis: Will Merkel be left out in the cold?
Profile: Angela Merkel
Profile: AfD leader Frauke Petry
In the western state of Baden-Wuerttemberg, a former stronghold of the conservative Christian Democrats (CDU), support for the party reached a historic low of about 27%, the exit polls suggest.
They say the Green-led coalition currently in power won the election.
In Saxony-Anhalt, a poor, eastern state where the CDU and the Social Democrats govern together, that coalition looks set to remain in office but the exit polls say Alternative Fuer Deutschland (AdF) won about 22% of the vote.
The Social Democrats are set maintain their hold on Rhineland-Palatinate, a state the CDU had hoped to capture.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35796831

German voters turned to the far right in droves yesterday in a damning verdict on Angela Merkel’s open door border policy.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3489936/Angela-Merkel-set-punished-voters-open-door-refugee-policy-Germany-s-Super-Sunday-state-elections.html#ixzz42qnE9kuA
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Those who have conned us and still doing so need to keep looking over their shoulders now, moreso.

Well, well...

Dodgeri and stormee cheering on the rise of neo-nazi fascist punks in Western Europe..

No real surprise there, is there ?

I'm just sirprised those two twats haven't yet referred to extremist right wing whingers and whiners parties as being somehow "progresives", champions of free speech, and simply misunderstood democrats at heart..

Where did I cheer anything?

I never did, which is all you can do is debate the posters and not anything on the article

You see this is why you are a regressive lefty who cannot see if you do not listen to people they will swing to the far right, and this is what Victor has been warning about for ages, but the left refuse to listen

I am warning of the dangers where you ignore the concerns of people

how long have I been saying this now??

since the days of sky news boards......

Are they really the "genuine concerns of people"?

Or are certain people who have always been racist seizing upon a handful of crimes to fan the flames of fear?

Should left-wing parties just do whatever right-wing fearmongers want, worried that the public is going to elect Nazis to replace them?

Ben_Reilly wrote:Are they really the "genuine concerns of people"?

Or are certain people who have always been racist seizing upon a handful of crimes to fan the flames of fear?

Should left-wing parties just do whatever right-wing fearmongers want, worried that the public is going to elect Nazis to replace them?

Absurd view point

People are concerned at the level of people that came into Germany last year, over a million, of which many are genuine asylum seekers and others are just migrants using the plight of the Syrian crisis.
People are concerned at the numbers and they have every right to be as they are going to be the ones paying for this help. A country can only accommodate as fast as it can build its infrastructure and Germany is struggling badly to accommodate all the refugees and migrants. A lower limit should have been set and other nations taking a fair share of refugees within their nations

Didge wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Are they really the "genuine concerns of people"?

Or are certain people who have always been racist seizing upon a handful of crimes to fan the flames of fear?

Should left-wing parties just do whatever right-wing fearmongers want, worried that the public is going to elect Nazis to replace them?

Absurd view point

People are concerned at the level of people that came into Germany last year, over a million, of which many are genuine asylum seekers and others are just migrants using the plight of the Syrian crisis.
People are concerned at the numbers and they have every right to be as they are going to be the ones paying for this help. A country can only accommodate as fast as it can build its infrastructure and Germany is struggling badly to accommodate all the refugees and migrants. A lower limit should have been set and other nations taking a fair share of refugees within their nations

Sure, Pollyanna. There are no people in Germany (which has no far-right racist movements, after all) making every incident involving a refugee into the end of the world. No, it's just that the average German is worried over how many people came into Germany.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:


Absurd view point

People are concerned at the level of people that came into Germany last year, over a million, of which many are genuine asylum seekers and others are just migrants using the plight of the Syrian crisis.
People are concerned at the numbers and they have every right to be as they are going to be the ones paying for this help. A country can only accommodate as fast as it can build its infrastructure and Germany is struggling badly to accommodate all the refugees and migrants. A lower limit should have been set and other nations taking a fair share of refugees within their nations

Sure, Pollyanna. There are no people in Germany (which has no far-right racist movements, after all) making every incident involving a refugee into the end of the world. No, it's just that the average German is worried over how many people came into Germany.

Thank you just proving my point in how you just do not listen, exactly all tthe left does all the time

If you can't see a red vein of hate running through this whole news event, you're an idiot.

Ben_Reilly wrote:If you can't see a red vein of hate running through this whole news event, you're an idiot.

And if you cannot see its regressive idiots not listening to people that is driving people into the arms of the far right, then you are an absolute waste of space

Grow up you silly child

I do not want the far right to rise to power but and imbecile like you has no idea on how and what drives this

Didge wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:If you can't see a red vein of hate running through this whole news event, you're an idiot.

And if you cannot see its regressive idiots not listening to people that is driving people into the arms of the far right, then you are an absolute waste of space

Grow up you silly child

I do not want the far right to rise to power but and imbecile like you has no idea on how and what drives this

Pull your head out of your ass! If you think the migrant crisis isn't being manipulated by the far right to scare the public into voting for them, you've never learned a damn thing about history. Honestly, you're not even worth listening to at this point.

Need I remind you of this?



... issued every time Bush took a dip in the polls. Predictable as the sunrise.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:

And if you cannot see its regressive idiots not listening to people that is driving people into the arms of the far right, then you are an absolute waste of space

Grow up you silly child

I do not want the far right to rise to power but and imbecile like you has no idea on how and what drives this

Pull your head out of your ass! If you think the migrant crisis isn't being manipulated by the far right to scare the public into voting for them, you've never learned a damn thing about history. Honestly, you're not even worth listening to at this point.

Need I remind you of this?



... issued every time Bush took a dip in the polls. Predictable as the sunrise.

People have genuine concerns which I just gave you earlier, are you that thick
What the fuck is wrong with you?

Are you that stupid?

Have you not learnt anything from history?

Your so blind to what is going on, because you simple do not listen

Now jog the fuck on as there is little point discussing something beyond your comprehension

Didge wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:

And if you cannot see its regressive idiots not listening to people that is driving people into the arms of the far right, then you are an absolute waste of space

Grow up you silly child

I do not want the far right to rise to power but and imbecile like you has no idea on how and what drives this

Pull your head out of your ass! If you think the migrant crisis isn't being manipulated by the far right to scare the public into voting for them, you've never learned a damn thing about history. Honestly, you're not even worth listening to at this point.

Need I remind you of this?



... issued every time Bush took a dip in the polls. Predictable as the sunrise.

People have genuine concerns which I just gave you earlier, are you that thick
What the fuck is wrong with you?

Are you that stupid?

Have you not learnt anything from history?

Your so blind to what is going on, because you simple do not listen

Now jog the fuck on as there is little point discussing something beyond your comprehension

Look, dipshit, do you really mean to tell me you think that what happened in Germany with the migrants warranted a right-wing wave election? Of course it didn't. Massive overreactions like this come about when right-wing fearmongers manipulate the public, always have. You're just blind to the fact that the same thing happened here, and thus you have no credibility whatsoever.

Now, normally on this sort of thing I'd just agree to disagree with someone, but you are so uniquely shitty to anyone who disagrees with you that I'll continue to make you look like the abject head-up-your-ass fool that you are. People with your myopia are easily deceived by the far right -- people like you are why horrible leaders continue to get elected. In other words, people like yourself are a big part of what's wrong with the world. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

So more infantile insults

Let me know when you want to have a debate

Until then I suggest you stick your head in the freezer to cool down

Then when you have, do you understand the concerns of many German people?

Didge wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Sure, Pollyanna. There are no people in Germany (which has no far-right racist movements, after all) making every incident involving a refugee into the end of the world. No, it's just that the average German is worried over how many people came into Germany.

Thank you just proving my point in how you just do not listen, exactly all tthe left does all the time

So this reply made Ben so angry and upset he decided to act like a 2 year old

Can anyone see what was so inflammatory about this post?

And to top it off where Victor has been warning off this very problem, the left get angry at those who told them so

GO figure

I'm just having a look at the different parties in Germany so I have some idea of what's going on. No party can make anyone vote for it - people decide for themselves. I don't think any "right wing" party needed to try to scare people about the refugee issues - it was all over the news, and still is.

"PEOPLE IN GERMANY HAVE NO FAR RIGHT RACIST MOVEMENTS. For fuck sake Ben read some proper newspapers.

Indeed rags and people are concerned over whether many are geuine refugees, which its very clear that many migrants got in off the crisis. I mean one million stated as refugees is a huge amount of people to deal with. The extra costs, accommodating them, feeding them, is way too high a number for Germany to cope with, as its struggling at the moment.
Victor did warn of this and many did not listen and like him both of us feared this would happen as neither of us want to see a far right party gain power

Didge wrote:Indeed rags and people are concerned over whether many are geuine refugees, which its very clear that many migrants got in off the crisis. I mean one million stated as refugees is a huge amount of people to deal with. The extra costs, accommodating them, feeding them, is way too high a number for Germany to cope with, as its struggling at the moment.
Victor did warn of this and many did not listen and like him both of us feared this would happen as neither of us want to see a far right party gain power

Several people said during the first discussions about the refugee crisis that Merkel may well lose support when people realise the problems that such an open-door policy will create.

Ben are you saying the media are manipulating people into how to vote?
Like brainwashing?

Sounds like a conspiracyyyyyyyyy

eddie wrote:Ben are you saying the media are manipulating people into how to vote?
Like brainwashing?

Sounds like a conspiracyyyyyyyyy

Nah, I'm saying the far-right political movements in Germany and elsewhere use things like what happened in Cologne to build up fears of something much worse happening, and they do it to get into power. The media is involved only insomuch as it will give a megaphone to any lunatic screaming that the sky is falling.

In no way could the vote in Germany be termed a rational act.

nicko wrote:"PEOPLE IN GERMANY HAVE NO FAR RIGHT RACIST MOVEMENTS.       For fuck sake Ben read some proper newspapers.

I was being sarcastic -- please re-read my comment with that in mind.

The right is INFAMOUS for using fear to manipulate the public and gain power.

It should be interesting to see whether the new German government attends immediately to deporting millions of refugees, or if it finds out that it actually does have the time to reduce pensions, tackle organized labor, cut benefits and loosen environmental regulations

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:Ben are you saying the media are manipulating people into how to vote?
Like brainwashing?

Sounds like a conspiracyyyyyyyyy

Nah, I'm saying the far-right political movements in Germany and elsewhere use things like what happened in Cologne to build up fears of something much worse happening, and they do it to get into power. The media is involved only insomuch as it will give a megaphone to any lunatic screaming that the sky is falling.

In no way could the vote in Germany be termed a rational act.

Lol I know what you're saying just wanted to poke you in the ribs

Truth is, there's probably a little bit of truth to what both you and didge, are saying.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:Ben are you saying the media are manipulating people into how to vote?
Like brainwashing?

Sounds like a conspiracyyyyyyyyy

Nah, I'm saying the far-right political movements in Germany and elsewhere use things like what happened in Cologne to build up fears of something much worse happening, and they do it to get into power. The media is involved only insomuch as it will give a megaphone to any lunatic screaming that the sky is falling.

In no way could the vote in Germany be termed a rational act.

Maybe the people who voted don't need something worse to happen, they see the huge number that Merkel invited in, and the obvious consequences, and that's enough for them. I don't see what's irrational about it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:Ben are you saying the media are manipulating people into how to vote?
Like brainwashing?

Sounds like a conspiracyyyyyyyyy

Nah, I'm saying the far-right political movements in Germany and elsewhere use things like what happened in Cologne to build up fears of something much worse happening, and they do it to get into power. The media is involved only insomuch as it will give a megaphone to any lunatic screaming that the sky is falling.

In no way could the vote in Germany be termed a rational act.

Maybe the people who voted don't need something worse to happen, they see the huge number that Merkel invited in, and the obvious consequences, and that's enough for them. I don't see what's irrational about it.

Let's see how rational it seems six months from now.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maybe the people who voted don't need something worse to happen, they see the huge number that Merkel invited in, and the obvious consequences, and that's enough for them. I don't see what's irrational about it.

Let's see how rational it seems six months from now.

One of the refugees is the Syrian astronaut who went into space with the Russian team.  He is speaking out about what Russia is doing in Syria.   However, something he said I found very poignant  “I saw the earth from outer space. The earth is like one ball, it has no borders,” Faris told The Associated Press in an interview from the Turkish city of Bursa. “And that’s wonderful, because in outer space, there are no gates between countries. From there, the earth is one home, one family.” 

Ben_Reilly wrote:

nicko wrote:"PEOPLE IN GERMANY HAVE NO FAR RIGHT RACIST MOVEMENTS.       For fuck sake Ben read some proper newspapers.

I was being sarcastic -- please re-read my comment with that in mind.

The right is INFAMOUS for using fear to manipulate the public and gain power.

It should be interesting to see whether the new German government attends immediately to deporting millions of refugees, or if it finds out that it actually does have the time to reduce pensions, tackle organized labor, cut benefits and loosen environmental regulations

and the left is imfamous for......

pie in the sky, we have plenty of money (err that will be YOUR money), it will be alright tomorrow ...honest...

lies

when people (and not far right either) say things , perfectly reasonable things, like...how about looking after OUR needy FIRST.
we are greeted with enthusiatic

yes of course you are right and that SHOULD be done as well

which translates into we have F**k all intention of doing any such thing, but we will say anything to get rid of this right wing extremist who DARES to suggest our own are worth anything

whan a left y says the above to me I know with absolute certainty that immediately they agree they will also instantly forget....

can someone please tell me whats so "far right" about suggesting we put our own house in order BEFORE acting as "santa to de ev'ry race"

and, perhaps more germane to the point...who provides the ammunition for the far right to feed on....

answer ...the left

lets look at what merkel "really said"

from the start

I dont give a damn what you (the people of germany) think I'm going to do this

and whats more, never mind the consequences (since as your leader I'm a rich person they dont affect me)
and

I'm going to keep on doing it whether you like it or not..

and if it causes problems and a few of your women get raped and your homes robbed etc etc etc etc ...I dont care.

so F**k you people of germany......I'm going to do it "my way"

and then you wonder why.........................................


does it never occur to you that the left are actually MORE dictatorial than the right....
the left thinks it knows whats best , and you can damn well suck it up.....

and folks wonder when "enough is enough"

Lord Foul wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

nicko wrote:"PEOPLE IN GERMANY HAVE NO FAR RIGHT RACIST MOVEMENTS.       For fuck sake Ben read some proper newspapers.

I was being sarcastic -- please re-read my comment with that in mind.

The right is INFAMOUS for using fear to manipulate the public and gain power.

It should be interesting to see whether the new German government attends immediately to deporting millions of refugees, or if it finds out that it actually does have the time to reduce pensions, tackle organized labor, cut benefits and loosen environmental regulations

and the left is imfamous for......

pie in the sky, we have plenty of money (err that will be YOUR money), it will be alright tomorrow ...honest...

lies

when people (and not far right either) say things , perfectly reasonable things, like...how about looking after OUR needy FIRST.
we are greeted with enthusiatic

yes of course you are right and that SHOULD be done as well

which translates into we have F**k all intention of doing any such thing, but we will say anything to get rid of this right wing extremist who DARES to suggest our own are worth anything

whan a left y says the above to me I know with absolute certainty that immediately they agree they will also instantly forget....

can someone please tell me whats so "far right" about suggesting we put our own house in order BEFORE acting as "santa to de ev'ry race"

I totally agree with the idea that a government should first serve its own people. I think you'll find, however, that far-right groups aren't advocating that at all. You see it in your own country, and we see it here -- it's pretty much fine (as far as the right is concerned) for say, veterans to get inadequate care right up until someone proposes helping people from another country. Then the left, which is always trying to strengthen the social safety net, is oh-so-conveniently portrayed as somehow *against* helping vets by people who don't care about either the veterans or the refugees and just want to keep money from going to help either group.

The left is the side constantly saying our own are worth a lot more than how our countries treat them. It's your Tories and my Republicans who keep slashing benefits for the people who are already barely getting by.

So now because of a small percentage of refugees who turned out to be bad people, the German public is empowering a political party that is proven to have a lot of anti-Semitic, xenophobic, homophobic people in its leadership, but that's supposed to be an expected, natural response? Yeah, that's like a child whose parents won't give him candy, so he runs away with the neighborhood pedo who gives him all the candy he wants

Oh give over Vic, that is just making excuses for racism and worse.  Those kind of people are not like that because of what other people do, they do it because there is something twisted in them that they actually think they are better than other human beings, just because of the bit of the planet they were born on.

sassy wrote:Oh give over Vic, that is just making excuses for racism and worse.  Those kind of people are not like that because of what other people do, they do it because there is something twisted in them that they actually think they are better than other human beings, just because of the bit of the planet they were born on.

and THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^


is exactly the point I'm making....

now all those folks who voted for the right in exasperation and dislike,(who once would never have done so) have had their choice confirmed


the left has just told them all they are sick twisted racists...you really know how to endear yourself to an electorate dont you


hmmm...the left is the rights best recruiter

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

nicko wrote:"PEOPLE IN GERMANY HAVE NO FAR RIGHT RACIST MOVEMENTS.       For fuck sake Ben read some proper newspapers.

I was being sarcastic -- please re-read my comment with that in mind.

The right is INFAMOUS for using fear to manipulate the public and gain power.

It should be interesting to see whether the new German government attends immediately to deporting millions of refugees, or if it finds out that it actually does have the time to reduce pensions, tackle organized labor, cut benefits and loosen environmental regulations

and the left is imfamous for......

pie in the sky, we have plenty of money (err that will be YOUR money), it will be alright tomorrow ...honest...

lies

when people (and not far right either) say things , perfectly reasonable things, like...how about looking after OUR needy FIRST.
we are greeted with enthusiatic

yes of course you are right and that SHOULD be done as well

which translates into we have F**k all intention of doing any such thing, but we will say anything to get rid of this right wing extremist who DARES to suggest our own are worth anything

whan a left y says the above to me I know with absolute certainty that immediately they agree they will also instantly forget....

can someone please tell me whats so "far right" about suggesting we put our own house in order BEFORE acting as "santa to de ev'ry race"

I totally agree with the idea that a government should first serve its own people. I think you'll find, however, that far-right groups aren't advocating that at all. You see it in your own country, and we see it here -- it's pretty much fine (as far as the right is concerned) for say, veterans to get inadequate care right up until someone proposes helping people from another country. Then the left, which is always trying to strengthen the social safety net, is oh-so-conveniently portrayed as somehow *against* helping vets by people who don't care about either the veterans or the refugees and just want to keep money from going to help either group.

The left is the side constantly saying our own are worth a lot more than how our countries treat them. It's your Tories and my Republicans who keep slashing benefits for the people who are already barely getting by.

So now because of a small percentage of refugees who turned out to be bad people, the German public is empowering a political party that is proven to have a lot of anti-Semitic, xenophobic, homophobic people in its leadership, but that's supposed to be an expected, natural response? Yeah, that's like a child whose parents won't give him candy, so he runs away with the neighborhood pedo who gives him all the candy he wants

however the point is NOT "how many" turned out to be bad

its about how that was dealt with and the message that came back from the govt

basically it wasnt handled robustly enough, and the response is still weak willed and pathetic...(just so we can say we are doing something)

and the message received loud and clear was


tough ...suck it up.....

so a sizeable proportion of the electorate said well f**k you

the people "punished" merkel in the polls...its that funny thing called democracy you lefties shout so much about...untill it bites your ass....

moreover...and this may come as a shock to you lefty types.....


not everyone sees the world through your particular set of rose tinted glasses......

and are sick to the back teeth of being told "well you SHOULD, becasue we and only we are correct, and any deviance from that is heresy and evil"

Vic wrote:however the point is NOT "how many" turned out to be bad

its about how that was dealt with and the message that came back from the govt

basically it wasnt handled robustly enough, and the response is still weak willed and pathetic...(just so we can say we are doing something)

and the message received loud and clear was


tough ...suck it up.....

so a sizeable proportion of the electorate said well f**k you

the people "punished" merkel in the polls...its that funny thing called democracy you lefties shout so much about...untill it bites your ass....

moreover...and this may come as a shock to you lefty types.....


not everyone sees the world through your particular set of rose tinted glasses......

and are sick to the back teeth of being told "well you SHOULD, becasue we and only we are correct, and any deviance from that is heresy and evil"

So the electorate was subtle enough to be voting against the handling of refugee crime, along with the messaging the government engaged in ... yet unsubtle enough to vote for Nazi Lite.

Bullpucky!!

People who say, "Wow, they really should have had more security in place and been better poised to deal with any criminal activity that arose from this rapid influx of people from other cultures" don't then say to themselves, "Gosh, I guess we'd better go vote for the party who said the police should shoot women and children refugees."

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Vic wrote:however the point is NOT "how many" turned out to be bad

its about how that was dealt with and the message that came back from the govt

basically it wasnt handled robustly enough, and the response is still weak willed and pathetic...(just so we can say we are doing something)

and the message received loud and clear was


tough ...suck it up.....

so a sizeable proportion of the electorate said well f**k you

the people "punished" merkel in the polls...its that funny thing called democracy you lefties shout so much about...untill it bites your ass....

moreover...and this may come as a shock to you lefty types.....


not everyone sees the world through your particular set of rose tinted glasses......

and are sick to the back teeth of being told "well you SHOULD, becasue we and only we are correct, and any deviance from that is heresy and evil"

So the electorate was subtle enough to be voting against the handling of refugee crime, along with the messaging the government engaged in ... yet unsubtle enough to vote for Nazi Lite.

Bullpucky!!

People who say, "Wow, they really should have had more security in place and been better poised to deal with any criminal activity that arose from this rapid influx of people from other cultures" don't then say to themselves, "Gosh, I guess we'd better go vote for the party who said the police should shoot women and children refugees."

of course they dont...they vote against the govt that they perceive as having pissed them off, in te strongest possible way....

they are in general not voting for the right so much as voting against the left...(nor all obviously, but a significant number)

"voting for the the smallest pile of shit" comes to mind


also...you should consider

what makes YOU(left) think YOUR (leftist) policies have the moral high ground..? (aside from your own opinion of course)

what makes you so right that you feel you can trample over the right of folks to think independantly and vote for whom they wish (or , at least, implicitly do so, by labeling them racist bigoted (choose anyone from the stock of lefty smears contained in "sixhirb") etc?


why are YOU correct?

And Victor Highlights why Europe is so backward that USA and Russia were silly to fear their potential unification as a threat.
The reality in Europe is they are just as much a bunch of insular uneducated hill shepherds as the Middle East. No real progress is possible because small minded peasants are scared and their in no leader with Balls when one like Merkel does there is always a Racist ultra nationalist wannabe Hitler waiting in the wings to drum up support for some sort of crimes against humanity.  
 
Ultimately they can make all the excuses they want for failure it doesn’t make it not a failure.

In Europe nothign changes but the clothes

you are getting as mad as the others here veya...that post of yours was just

rant rant rant rant wibble burble

why not try making an argument that actually adresses points made,

again you show why the left are heading towards being a mere smear on the toilet paper of history....

Lord Foul wrote:you are getting as mad as the others here veya...that post of yours was just

rant rant rant rant wibble burble

why not try making an argument that actually adresses points made,

again you show why the EUROPEAN left are heading towards being a mere smear on the toilet paper of history LIEK THE REST OF EUROPE ....

The common factor in things going down the toliet is not Left wing!
it is European, or old world nations in general, of which there are not many outside of Europe.

You claim Left wing is going down But Outside of Europe that is not the case and as Europe is going down there is a Much greater correlation there.

So You have no support for your accusation of the left wing going down globally it is has seen huge progess.

Lord Foul wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Vic wrote:however the point is NOT "how many" turned out to be bad

its about how that was dealt with and the message that came back from the govt

basically it wasnt handled robustly enough, and the response is still weak willed and pathetic...(just so we can say we are doing something)

and the message received loud and clear was


tough ...suck it up.....

so a sizeable proportion of the electorate said well f**k you

the people "punished" merkel in the polls...its that funny thing called democracy you lefties shout so much about...untill it bites your ass....

moreover...and this may come as a shock to you lefty types.....


not everyone sees the world through your particular set of rose tinted glasses......

and are sick to the back teeth of being told "well you SHOULD, becasue we and only we are correct, and any deviance from that is heresy and evil"

So the electorate was subtle enough to be voting against the handling of refugee crime, along with the messaging the government engaged in ... yet unsubtle enough to vote for Nazi Lite.

Bullpucky!!

People who say, "Wow, they really should have had more security in place and been better poised to deal with any criminal activity that arose from this rapid influx of people from other cultures" don't then say to themselves, "Gosh, I guess we'd better go vote for the party who said the police should shoot women and children refugees."

of course they dont...they vote against the govt that they perceive as having pissed them off, in te strongest possible way....

they are in general not voting for the right so much as voting against the left...(nor all obviously, but a significant number)

"voting for the the smallest pile of shit" comes to mind


also...you should consider

what makes YOU(left) think YOUR (leftist) policies have the moral high ground..? (aside from your own opinion of course)

what makes you so right that you feel you can trample over the right of folks to think independantly and vote for whom they wish (or , at least, implicitly do so, by labeling them racist bigoted (choose anyone from the stock of lefty smears contained in "sixhirb") etc?


why are YOU correct?

OK, I'm coming at this from an American perspective of course, but in the U.S., it was liberals who freed the slaves, got women the vote, created a government agency to protect the environment, created Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other social welfare programs that cut the U.S. poverty rate nearly in half; who passed the closest thing we've ever had to universal health care; who fought for gay rights; who continually fight for equal access to the vote; who try to reduce gun violence; and the list goes on.

The right in my country fights for banning abortion, expanding gun rights, returning the health care system to one where you could be denied insurance if you had a congenital health condition; passing a constitutional amendment that would make it illegal for gay people to marry; who shut down voting stations in poor and minority areas; who give rise to some of the most racist politicians in the world right now; who fight measures designed to guarantee equal pay for equal work; who try to strip government benefits to the poor -- even the working poor; and the list goes on.

These are all facts, not my opinion. In my opinion, liberal values benefit the majority, while conservative values benefit a privileged elite and severely harm freedom.

Also, in my opinion, the right to think as you do and vote for whom you choose is as inviolable as the right to self-expression, which I also enjoy and will use whenever I see something I think is bigoted.

It was Republicans, who were right wing more than Liberal that ended slavery

Woodrow Wilson may have brought about women the vote but is considered one of the worst Presidents for his racist policies, hardly a claim to liberalism.

Why do the left continually make such false claims to people of the past who were fundamentally right wing, who brought about changes? It shows it was people for the day who held right wing views that brought about progression.
Why do they disingenuously try to deceive people with lies claiming liberals changed America for the better when this is not the case?

Center left is about as scary as it gets thinking it can force its views onto society to the extent it heads into the Stalinist direction, that would take freedoms away from people. The right is also and can be as bad, but the center, or center right know how to find balance. Only in modern terms over a few decades can you truly associate liberalism to the Democrats.

You will never get away with invented history whilst I am on this forum

Didge wrote:It was Republicans, who were right wing more than Liberal that ended slavery

Woodrow Wilson may have brought about women the vote but is considered one of the worst Presidents for his racist policies, hardly a claim to liberalism.

Why do the left continually make such false claims to people of the past who were fundamentally right wing, who brought about changes? It shows it was people for the day who held right wing views that brought about progression.
Why do they disingenuously try to deceive people with lies claiming liberals changed America for the better when this is not the case?

Center left is about as scary as it gets thinking it can force its views onto society to the extent it heads into the Stalinist direction, that would take freedoms away from people. The right is also and can be as bad, but the center, or center right know how to find balance. Only in modern terms over a few decades can you truly associate liberalism to the Democrats.

You will never get away with invented history whilst I am on this forum

The Republicans were liberal where it counted -- they were liberal on the issue of freedom and abolishing slavery. The Republicans of the late 19th century also had no problem with the government having lots of power -- that's why they wouldn't let the South secceed. We may be getting a bit into the differences in the definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" in different countries, but it's a common mistake to assume the Republicans have always been conservative and the Democrats have always been liberal.

The Republicans didn't actually start to adopt the label of "conservative" until around the time of the Great Depression, before which the Democrats were actually more the party of "small government" than the GOP was. But then along came FDR who was ready to try some socialist economic theories to remedy the Depression, which also greatly expanded the role of government. As a reaction to this, the Republicans found backers in big business and the wealthy class, which didn't want to fund these socialist programs.

The Civil Rights Movement a few decades later completed the transformation. Pushed by civil rights leaders, who emphasized economic justice almost as strongly as equal rights, the Democrats committed to making America a nicer place to live for minorities with the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, and with another round of social benefits programs initiated by LBJ, became the party that was liberal on both economic issues and social issues.

Again, as a response, the Republicans (many of whom initially supported the Civil Rights Act) began to seek the votes of white voters who felt that equal rights for minorities was a threat to their power. Southern Democrats like Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms and others switched parties.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Didge wrote:It was Republicans, who were right wing more than Liberal that ended slavery

Woodrow Wilson may have brought about women the vote but is considered one of the worst Presidents for his racist policies, hardly a claim to liberalism.

Why do the left continually make such false claims to people of the past who were fundamentally right wing, who brought about changes? It shows it was people for the day who held right wing views that brought about progression.
Why do they disingenuously try to deceive people with lies claiming liberals changed America for the better when this is not the case?

Center left is about as scary as it gets thinking it can force its views onto society to the extent it heads into the Stalinist direction, that would take freedoms away from people. The right is also and can be as bad, but the center, or center right know how to find balance. Only in modern terms over a few decades can you truly associate liberalism to the Democrats.

You will never get away with invented history whilst I am on this forum

The Republicans were liberal where it counted -- they were liberal on the issue of freedom and abolishing slavery. The Republicans of the late 19th century also had no problem with the government having lots of power -- that's why they wouldn't let the South secceed. We may be getting a bit into the differences in the definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" in different countries, but it's a common mistake to assume the Republicans have always been conservative and the Democrats have always been liberal.
False, their views were very much Right wing Conservatism

The Republicans didn't actually start to adopt the label of "conservative" until around the time of the Great Depression, before which the Democrats were actually more the party of "small government" than the GOP was. But then along came FDR who was ready to try some socialist economic theories to remedy the Depression, which also greatly expanded the role of government. As a reaction to this, the Republicans found backers in big business and the wealthy class, which didn't want to fund these socialist programs.
False, again the politics for the time were right wing and in no way Liberal, maybe you can point out all their Liberal policies

The Civil Rights Movement a few decades later completed the transformation. Pushed by civil rights leaders, who emphasized economic justice almost as strongly as equal rights, the Democrats committed to making America a nicer place to live for minorities with the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, and with another round of social benefits programs initiated by LBJ, became the party that was liberal on both economic issues and social issues.
Now you are getting into the true era of Liberalism in America

Again, as a response, the Republicans (many of whom initially supported the Civil Rights Act) began to seek the votes of white voters who felt that equal rights for minorities was a threat to their power. Southern Democrats like Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms and others switched parties.

I know most of the history, I am just appalled you try to claim Liberalism advanced much of American society, It never did and it was right wing Politicians that mainly progressed American society up until the civil rights movement

Didge wrote:Indeed rags and people are concerned over whether many are geuine refugees, which its very clear that many migrants got in off the crisis. I mean one million stated as refugees is a huge amount of people to deal with. The extra costs, accommodating them, feeding them, is way too high a number for Germany to cope with, as its struggling at the moment.
Victor did warn of this and many did not listen and like him both of us feared this would happen as neither of us want to see a far right party gain power

Didge old mate, irrespective of right wing parties, the content and message in your post, which seems sympathetic, says exactly what most Brits feel. That's why the Brexit swing is growing ever larger.

stardesk wrote:

Didge wrote:Indeed rags and people are concerned over whether many are geuine refugees, which its very clear that many migrants got in off the crisis. I mean one million stated as refugees is a huge amount of people to deal with. The extra costs, accommodating them, feeding them, is way too high a number for Germany to cope with, as its struggling at the moment.
Victor did warn of this and many did not listen and like him both of us feared this would happen as neither of us want to see a far right party gain power

Didge old mate, irrespective of right wing parties, the content and message in your post, which seems sympathetic, says exactly what most Brits feel. That's why the Brexit swing is growing ever larger.

But there is always a danger Stardesk of people being sucked into vote for poor right wing parties, that will do little good for the country.
I understand very well why people want to leave mate, just think it will be a mare if we do.

Oh I dunno Didge. Parties like UKIP and BNP are in the minority. Some Lib/Lab/Con ministers keep on about how Brexit will lose us trade, affecting our industrial exports. But I don't believe that. This world has many countries and a bit of effort can bring us more trade. We can/could survive without the EU.

stardesk wrote:Oh I dunno Didge. Parties like UKIP and BNP are in the minority. Some Lib/Lab/Con ministers keep on about how Brexit will lose us trade, affecting our industrial exports. But I don't believe that. This world has many countries and a bit of effort can bring us more trade. We can/could survive without the EU.

Well put it this way mate, everyone will get a chance to have their say soon enough on the issue.

And roll on, I, like most of the populaion, am looking forward it. But I wonder what will happen to the Government and Cameron if it's exit. Do you think Cameron will be ousted and somone like Boris take his place?

stardesk wrote:And roll on, I, like most of the populaion, am looking forward it. But I wonder what will happen to the Government and Cameron if it's exit. Do you think Cameron will be ousted and somone like Boris take his place?

Boris?? God I hope not. Frying pan and fire spring to mind.

Trouble is, Eddie, Boris comes across like any ordinary guy in the street, and people can relate to him. So, let's wait and see, with abated breath I think.