Warning: Graphic content...The IDF said he had a knife, the pictures proved it was a pen, but they screamed at him to die while he bled to death

Raggamuffin wrote:

The have seen their fellow Palestinians burnt with white phosphorus in Gaza and watched while IDF shoot girls with sunglasses in public and get away with it and plant knives on Palestinian boys who have been shot by settlers, all recorded.

If you mean the lady who was shot in the bus station, I thought it had been established that she was carrying a knife.

eddie wrote:Wow that's a horrible read sassy.

Didge wrote:So children are detained in Israel because again why?

They throw rocks at cars, which have seen multiple deaths and who is allowing these children to do this? Where are their parents? Have their parents incited them to commit crimes and cause a possible crash that could have fatalities?
We have seen children stabbing Israelis on buses and in the streets, a boy of 12 and his cousin who stabbed critically an Israeli 11 year old boy. So what is the cause of these boys committing these acts?
being taught to hate and commit violence. Glorifying the murder of innocent people by terrorists who they glorify further through a belief of martydom

We then have the worst and most problematic situation with children being totally abused.

Child suicide bombers in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict refers to the exploitation of children to carry out suicide bombings by Palestinian militant groups. Minors have been recruited to attack Israeli targets, both military and civilian, especially during the Second Intifada from 2000 to 2005.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict


What are Israelis to do when faced by such a threat? How even worse Palestinians are abusing children by indoctrinating them and even misleading them to their own deaths through suicide.

Israel does not want to detain children.. But what choices do they have where generation after generation is being taught hate and want to kill them

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If you mean the lady who was shot in the bus station, I thought it had been established that she was carrying a knife.

No it wasn't, the close ups showed without a doubt sunglasses.  Now you can go down that road, I see the bigger picture, so don't expect me to follow you.

eddie wrote:To be frank didge and sassy, you two could argue this till kingdom come but the simple fact is this: there will never be peace whilst two sides are at war.

Someone needs to turn away and say; no more.

eddie wrote:To be frank didge and sassy, you two could argue this till kingdom come but the simple fact is this: there will never be peace whilst two sides are at war.

Someone needs to turn away and say; no more.


Ps.  I was taking about Palestine and Israel - not you two

Raggamuffin wrote:So this thread isn't actually about Ahmad Yousef Amer then. I thought it wouldn't be. Do you actually care about that particular boy Sassy, or is he just another exucse for you to spam the forum?

Raggamuffin wrote:Let's look at the thread title again.

Re: Warning: Graphic content...The IDF said he had a knife, the pictures proved it was a pen, but they screamed at him to die while he bled to death

Sassy, you went on to say that he probably did attack them? With what did he attack them?

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:So this thread isn't actually about Ahmad Yousef Amer then. I thought it wouldn't be. Do you actually care about that particular boy Sassy, or is he just another exucse for you to spam the forum?

Rags, you can try baiting but it won't work.  Yes, I care about him, is he just one, no, is his death part of a bigger picture and will children like him be at risk until the bigger picture is dealt with, yes. 

You show me one thread that doesn't broaden out.  Now I suggest you have a go at someone else, because I don't give a damn, ok?

eddie wrote:Didge I get it but I cannot sympathise with one side only, because both sides are playing dirty and wrong and it's all pretty fucked up.

If I were in charge of either side I'd say "Know What? You win. I'm not letting any more of my people die"

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:


Rags, you can try baiting but it won't work.  Yes, I care about him, is he just one, no, is his death part of a bigger picture and will children like him be at risk until the bigger picture is dealt with, yes. 

You show me one thread that doesn't broaden out.  Now I suggest you have a go at someone else, because I don't give a damn, ok?

I'm not baiting you. You post thread after thread after thread on the subject of Palestine. If you manage to post a thread about a particular incident, wouldn't it be good to actually talk about that particular incident? If you then introduce another load of stuff in the same thread, the boy gets forgotten.

The bigger picture is made up of smaller pictures - why not concentrate on one at a time? I did that in a thread you posted about a lady being shot in a petrol station, and in the thread about the lady being shot in the bus station. Only by studying these incidents properly can you reach any kind of conclusion. Can you not concentrate your mind a little bit?

eddie wrote:Didge I get it but I cannot sympathise with one side only, because both sides are playing dirty and wrong and it's all pretty fucked up.

If I were in charge of either side I'd say "Know What? You win. I'm not letting any more of my people die"

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Let's look at the thread title again.

Re: Warning: Graphic content...The IDF said he had a knife, the pictures proved it was a pen, but they screamed at him to die while he bled to death

Sassy, you went on to say that he probably did attack them? With what did he attack them?

The answer is in my post, hard to read for you I know because it long, but it's there, in black and white.

Did this boy attack the IDF - probably, so many do driven to dispair about the unending humilations that are heaped on their head every day.

However, he didn't have a knife, he had a pen, and it would have been so impossible for the IDF, in their full combat gear to take a pen of a 16 year old wouldn't it.

sassy wrote:

eddie wrote:Didge I get it but I cannot sympathise with one side only, because both sides are playing dirty and wrong and it's all pretty fucked up.

If I were in charge of either side I'd say "Know What? You win. I'm not letting any more of my people die"

Don't be ridiculous Eddie, if the Palestinians did they they would all become refugees, why do you thing Israel is taking over the land illegally?

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm not baiting you. You post thread after thread after thread on the subject of Palestine. If you manage to post a thread about a particular incident, wouldn't it be good to actually talk about that particular incident? If you then introduce another load of stuff in the same thread, the boy gets forgotten.

The bigger picture is made up of smaller pictures - why not concentrate on one at a time? I did that in a thread you posted about a lady being shot in a petrol station, and in the thread about the lady being shot in the bus station. Only by studying these incidents properly can you reach any kind of conclusion. Can you not concentrate your mind a little bit?

Can you not see that they cannot be separated, one affects the other, they are homogeneous.

Didge wrote:

eddie wrote:Didge I get it but I cannot sympathise with one side only, because both sides are playing dirty and wrong and it's all pretty fucked up.

If I were in charge of either side I'd say "Know What? You win. I'm not letting any more of my people die"

Not asking you too Eddie

I am against the settlements, and they should withdraw them and there should be a Palestinian state and an Israeli state, but that can only come via peace and recognition of each other

This is not about winning for me, but about standing up to the promotion of hate and lies

Eddie, again I have seen disinformation be used in history to dehumanize the Jews before

eddie wrote:

sassy wrote:


Don't be ridiculous Eddie, if the Palestinians did they they would all become refugees, why do you thing Israel is taking over the land illegally?

Lol sassy tbh no one can ever pinpoint the moment a war starts
Even google - unbiased sites - I've read loads (mostly for myself and to explain to my son) say it's a 50/50 who's to "blame" or who "started it"

You think, if this goes on, there are winners? Ever???

You think I'm being ridiculous but a war that never ends is NOT ridiculous?

Raggamuffin wrote:You know what? I have gone to a great deal of trouble at times to research these incidents you post about Sassy. I've looked at photos, videos, press reports - everything, usually to find that you've moved on and posted another dozen threads. If you can't discuss the specific incidents you bring up, then I'm wasting my time.

You might have noticed that I do tend to concentrate on an incident until I'm satisfied that I can see what happened as best I can according to the evidence, and that I'm not relying on biased reporting or hearsay.

Perhaps it's just me - maybe others just want to argue about whose fault it is, or maybe they like seeing walls of text and spam. I'll leave you all to it in that case, and I'll move on to another subject and stop wasting time.

Stormee wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:You know what? I have gone to a great deal of trouble at times to research these incidents you post about Sassy. I've looked at photos, videos, press reports - everything, usually to find that you've moved on and posted another dozen threads. If you can't discuss the specific incidents you bring up, then I'm wasting my time.

You might have noticed that I do tend to concentrate on an incident until I'm satisfied that I can see what happened as best I can according to the evidence, and that I'm not relying on biased reporting or hearsay.

Perhaps it's just me - maybe others just want to argue about whose fault it is, or maybe they like seeing walls of text and spam. I'll leave you all to it in that case, and I'll move on to another subject and stop wasting time.

Constant, daily, hourly walls of long c&p text and spam are really annoying when someone really shows interest in a thread and 'digs' for the facts, unfortunately it is one of her well known trademark Miss Ragga.
All the spam is surely not wanted.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Stormee wrote:

Constant, daily, hourly walls of long c&p text and spam are really annoying when someone really shows interest in a thread and 'digs' for the facts, unfortunately it is one of her well known trademark Miss Ragga.
All the spam is surely not wanted.

Look at the state of this thread now Stormee. Even if it had wanted to comment on the video re the wheelchair I wouldn't have bothered because I knew it would be followed by more spam.

Let Wounded Terrorists Die, Top Haredi Rabbi Rules
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com
The #2 non-hasidic Ashkenazi haredi rabbinic leader in Israel (and arguably worldwide, as well) Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky told the heads of Israel’s haredi United Hatzolah volunteer ambulance and paramedic organization today that they their organizations should refuse to treat wounded Palestinian terrorists until all non-terrorists have been treated, even if the terrorist is the most seriously injured of all the wounded, Arutz Sheva reported. This applies, Kanievsky said, as long as it is clear who among the wounded is and who among them is not a terrorist.
Kanievsky also said if a terrorist is so seriously wounded that s/he is in imminent danger of dying, United Hatzolah should refuse to treat the terrorist at all and should instead just let him or her die.
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2015/12/let-wounded-terrorists-die-top-haredi-rabbi-rules-567.html

sraeli Medic: “We Don’t Provide Treatment To Wounded Palestinians”
Thursday December 24, 2015 11:19 by Saed Bannoura - IMEMC News

An Israeli medic said on his Twitter page Thursday that field medical crews do not provide treatment to what he called “terrorists”, and stated that, in Hebron, he provided treatment to wounded Israelis “but I did not provide any treatment to the terrorist although he suffered more serious wounds.”

Text of tweet from Israeli medic (image from Twitter)
The medic said he wanted to be clear in his message when he said, “To all who ask, when I got to the scene today in Jaffa Gate, I helped the wounded [Israelis], but not the hateful terrorist, although he suffered more critical wounds.”

In another Tweet, the Israeli medics said, “When you go to the site of a stabbing attack, and you realize that the victim suffered a serious injury, and the terrorist was shot and also suffered a serious injury, who do you help? Now you answer me.”

There have been many reports, some captured on video, showing Israeli medics ignoring wounded Palestinians, and leaving them to bleed to death, in direct violation of International Law.

Many Israeli medics also carry automatic machine guns despite the fact that whenever they operate in the occupied territories many fully armed soldiers always accompany them.

Palestinian medics said in response to the news that such a statement by a medic, a person who vows to help any person who needs help, regardless of his faith, race, tone of skin or any other aspect, validates various reports regarding wounded Palestinians who bled to death while Israeli medics refrained from providing them with the urgently needed medical treatment.
http://www.imemc.org/article/74344

On the 28th of February around 4:00pm, 12 year old Palestinian boy, Sayed Seder was arrested by 10 heavily armed Israeli soldiers whilst playing football with his friends on the street in front of his family home. The Israeli army claim that he was arrested under allegations he was throwing stones at the guard tower which watches over Al-Shallalah Street and the illegal Israeli settlement that has been built directly behind the street and family home.

Abed, the father of Sayed went down to confront the soldiers after Sayed’s friends came running up to the family home, explaining to the father what was happening. When Abed approached the soldiers to ask them what exactly they were arresting his son for, the soldiers responded by informing him that it was because he was seen throwing rocks at the guard tower above. However, the street is lined with a protective type of fencing above the shops roofs that prohibits objects being thrown up or in the most common cases, being thrown down by illegal Israeli settlers who live above. Abed put the argument forward that it would have been pointless for his son to have been throwing stones with this protective barrier in place. Perhaps the logic of this made too much sense and the arresting soldier quickly changed his story and then began to tell Abed his son was being arrested for stealing a settler child’s football whilst pointing to the ball that Sayed and his friends were playing with. Abed informed the soldier that the ball Sayed and his friends were playing with was in fact a ball that he had purchased for Sayed from a shop in Halhoul just recently. The soldier who was evidently lying and knowingly falsely accusing Sayed of the above allegations ignored any more of Abed’s protests and continued to arrest Sayed.

Al-Shallalah street where Sayed was arrested

From this point Sayed was marched to the Shuhada street entrance gate and taken through while his parents and friends were forced to stand back and watch. Sayed was then taken to the local military base on Shuhada street. Upon entering the military base he was reportedly handcuffed and blindfolded. The blindfold remained on for around 30minutes before being taken off, assuming that it was put on so he could not get a full view of what was happening inside the military compound for security purposes. Sayed alleges that teenage settlers who were allowed into the compound then beat him while the Israeli army simply stood back and did nothing. In recent light of leaked videos showing the torture of young Palestinians by Israeli soldiers whilst being detained does nothing to boost the credibility of the Israeli army or give merit to this bogus arrest of a 12 year old.

Protective fencing installed above Al-Shallalah street and the guard tower

Sayed was later released from custody at around 9pm to Palestinian authorities where he complained of pain in his kidneys. His father arrived shortly after and took Sayed to hospital where doctors examined him. While the doctors could not find physical wounds that would require further attention they did note that Sayed was severely traumatised from the event and was in a state of shock.

Just 3 months ago the Israeli army arrested one of Abed’s other sons who is 10 years old. The reason for the arrest was that he too was suspected of throwing stones at the military. As Abed didn’t believe this and objected he too was arrested with his 10 year old son. They were detained for 6 hours and released without charge.

One significant fact is that Abed’s house backs onto the illegal Israeli settlement of Beit Hadasa. Abed used to sell artisans out of the family home but has had to stop because of ongoing harassment both physical and verbal to himself and to his customers from the settlers that occupy the land next to his home. The front of Abed’s house has been covered in barbed wire by the Israeli military and is adorned with bags of dirty hummus, eggs and other foul items thrown down by the illegal settlers. The army has also boarded up the windows of his family home (without his permission) that overlook Beit Hadasa.

Abed’s home and the illegal Israeli settlement of Beit Hadasa

The barbed wire at the entrance to Abed’s house with rubbish thrown down by settlers

While harassment from the settlers in Hebron is  often considered an unfortunate normality to most Palestinians living under occupation, the armies continued bogus charges and harassment of Abed and his family give one the impression that the Zionist regime is using a tactical ploy to get Abed and his family out of their home for further settlement expansion.

http://palsolidarity.org/2016/03/bogus-arrest-of-12-year-old-boy-in-hebron/

Israeli Police Caught On Video Hosing ‘Skunk Spray’ on Palestinian Elementary Schools and Protesters



Israeli police in Jerusalem have been caught on video recently spraying East Jerusalem Palestinian neighborhoods with a concoction they call “skunk spray”. The liquid is a mixture of sewage and rotting animal roadkill.
The result of the police hosing down neighborhoods, elementary schools and protesters with the mix is a putrid smell that seems almost impossible to get off or be around without inducing nausea. As a result, thousands of East Jerusalem children have been forced to stay home from school.
http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/11/israeli-police-on-video-hosing-palestinian-elementary-schools-and-protesters-with-skunk-spray/

sassy wrote:
When they are playing on roof terraces they are shot at:



And the soldiers laugh.




And you really think after all of that they are going to grow up with love in their hearts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An Israeli police officer was filmed tipping a disabled Palestinian man out of his wheelchair during a confrontation in the West Bank city of Hebron.

Mobile phone video shows the officer knocking Majed al-Fakhouri backwards and sending him sprawling into the street as a crowd looks on.

The incident took place moments after a 14-year-old Palestinian girl allegedly tried to stab an Israeli police officer on Sunday afternoon.

The girl was shot by Israeli forces and Mr al-Fakhouri, who lost his left leg in a car crash a decade ago, said he was trying to reach her to give her first aid.

"I saw blood coming out of her arm and side and I thought she was going to bleed to death," Mr al-Fakhouri told The Telegraph.

"I tried to help her but a police officer stopped me and ordered me to go back. Then he turned me over and my head hit the ground."

Mr al-Fakhouri, 53, was taken to hospital but was not badly injured. The girl, Yasmin Rashad al-Zarou, was seriously wounded and taken to hospital by Israeli forces.

This was not a "crime scene" this is the scene of a terror attack. A still active scene which began only seconds before. At the moment the woman was laying on the ground, alive but neutralized, her bag was identified nearby and hadn't been checked yet. By protocol, this bag is immediately suspected to contain a bomb. 

The security perimeter is set up for a few different reasons:

A. The fact there is one terrorist gives reason to suspect another one, an attack that is not yet finished. So, the perimeter protects the soldiers, and the civilians they are guarding.

B. The possibility the female terrorist's bag is a bomb can't be checked until the bomb-disposal unit arrives to investigate. Hence, no one can enter the area lest they die. That includes Arab neighbors taping this on their phones. Its for their own protection.

C. The scene has a wounded woman in danger of losing her life, the last thing she needs is a crowd of Arabs around her, who could try to "help" her which would interfere with the trained professionals including the near by medic from administering life saving first aid treatment.

D. The entry of any civilians, even just 1 unauthorized person, and especially the agitated Arabs, would defeat the purpose of A, B, and C, as well as create danger for the soldiers who would soon either have to be separated by the crowd of people who would likely also be tempted to storm in as well like a wave, or the soldiers would have to restore the integrity of the perimeter by shooting the Arabs who could be part of the terrorist attack. And then you would be bitching here about a video of IDF soldiers shooting at Arabs at close range with a death toll of who knows how many.

(After all, they are storming/confronting a security perimeter during an already started attack)

Now on top of all that, all of these suspicions and dangers, comes brazenly strolling in this man on a wheel chair. Of all times and of all places and of all scenarios, its THIS ONE, he decides to confront soldiers. He becomes the biggest suspect for "here is terrorist 2", simply because of how out of place he is at this moment. It would be crazy even for a man with fully functioning appendages to approach a security perimeter like this one, yet this guy has no qualms about it at all. In fact, he refuses to obey any kind of commands from men with guns, and is very adamant about getting inside.

So, worst case scenario, he has a bomb strapped under him or under his chair. Best case scenario, he is an idiot, and if he gets through, the perimeter is compromised -which means everyone is in danger and especially the woman on the ground who needs treatment. -because the other Arabs could follow him in.

I don't know any other country in the world where people feel brazen enough to stroll up to the face of soldiers and violate simple rules like "this is a crime scene, you can't enter" let alone "this is the scene of a terrorist attack". That in itself is evidence of how confident the Palestinian-Arabs are of NOT having their rights abused by Israeli soldiers.

Yet, here you are, talking about these soldiers corroded by "occupation" as if what happened was a man in a wheel chair was just strolling along not causing any trouble when an IDF soldier deliberately approached him and shoved him until the man fell.

I'm offended. Mostly because, it is common sense, that in any other country it is likely this man in the wheel chair would have been shot on approach by any other security force. Just like anyone who approached a closed security perimeter around an already commenced terror attack.

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:
When they are playing on roof terraces they are shot at:



And the soldiers laugh.




And you really think after all of that they are going to grow up with love in their hearts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well if you gave people the chance to have a look and do some research they might be able to answer you! If you just keep on and on spamming in this manner, who's going to bother?

Stormee wrote:Stop the constant spamming.