Slapping.

First topic message reminder :

As an adult have you ever slapped anyone or been slapped?

Is it still more acceptable for a woman to slap a man than a man to slap a woman?

Quill stated >>> These assumptions perpetuate the problem.  They are perpetually in the background, skewing our perceptions, until one day they come home to roost: because of them, women actually start the physical part of most situations of domestic, physical violence. Now that's just a fact.

 Now you might lay that HUGE mental egg out here for all of us to read as 'my/your opinion'...but there's absolutely no way - NADA/ZIP/ZILCH, that you can state it's a "FACT"
WAYYYYY

BTW - domestic violence is a human/emotional/society driven way of reacting/being raised and taught via what daddy does to my mommy - not what my daddy tells me I should do & react to negative stimuli...
It's got nothing to DO WITH POLITICS/political leaning thoughts in any manner.  
Strong Bible Belt regions are strong in their belief that 'women are to be seen and not heard; just like their children' that's a regional/faith based/society proven FACT!  

You seem to be yourself deeper into manure pile --- aren't you about to STEP OUT and take a breather?   Just joking~~~

sassy wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Unfortunately, it's the short-cut to prosecution for domestic violence.  Call it self-defense if you will, but usually these domestic things start with a female getting physical and the male retaliating.  Look how they end up, no matter that it was self-defense.

The best thing you can do when a woman exhibits a propensity to get physical, is get rid of her.  It's not worth it, no matter how beautiful...or your feelings for her.  You'll end up with the same black eye, and in jail!

That Quill, is complete and utter bullshit I'm afraid.  They normal start off with the male controlling the female, undermining her confidence and cutting her off from her friend and family.  She wouldn't have the confidence to hit first, or last for that matter.  She rarely even has the confidence to leave, as she has been manipulated into believing she couldn't support herself, or in other cases, would not be allowed to keep her children and is told they would go to the abuser.

Yes, there are cases where the woman is the abuser and they are just as disgusting, but in 90% of the cases the man is the abuserer and the woman never lifts a finger in her own defence, she is too terrified.

I agree Sassy. I think there was a thread similar a while ago on here.
Yes women can be violent and abuse their partners....but when men abuse women the outcome is a lot worse, the statistics prove this. Not many women actually kill their male partners, the statistics already shown in this thread state that on average two women a week are killed by their partners (or ex partners) in England and Wales.
The average woman is abused many times before she plucks up courage to leave, many times she returns because she is scared for her children and herself.

Quill stated >>> Not trying to change the data. Just trying to point out that it is false.

You point out the gynocentric problem ("...that machismo BS attitude...) but you fail to offer any comment, least of all any solution. If you are not trying to solve a problem, you are just flailing.

HOLY BAT CRAP BATMAN~~~now it's not only just an adult discussion but I've got to solve this society issue as well --- or you just have to say that 'I'M FLAILING'

Stand Back~~~this might take a while and a few practice pulls out of my magic hat...

Original Quill wrote:
Unfortunately, it's the short-cut to prosecution for domestic violence.  Call it self-defense if you will, but usually these domestic things start with a female getting physical and the male retaliating.  Look how they end up, no matter that it was self-defense.

The best thing you can do when a woman exhibits a propensity to get physical, is get rid of her.  It's not worth it, no matter how beautiful...or your feelings for her.  You'll end up with the same black eye, and in jail!

Shocking - and yet that attitude is why the ability to obtain a restraining order - get the local law enforcement to enforce that restraining order - to at least respond to an assault & battery 911 phone call from a fellow officers home address...might save a life!  

The next time I visit my dearly departed sisters grave, I share your WISE WORDS OF WISDOM with her; and I'll LMAO as I'm cleaning her headstone.  Yes, indeed; how those 'chatty-cathy women, just bring all of those violent reactions upon themselves' ---
Say, sis...did you know that had you just kept your mouth shut - been able to read your abusive husbands sick/twisted/demented mind - that you could have saved yourself those 4 slugs into your back - all those teeth knocked out - all those broken bones - all those times I came to haul your broken/battered body {and six children} out of there so I could get you some medical help!  And all those 18yrs - all you had to do was become a 'MIND READER' and you would have been a happy/healthy/loving wife and still alive today!  

WOW - who knew it could be so F'n easy to FIX DOMESTIC VIOLENCE that you were subjected to by police officer that you MARRIED!!!
SWEET JESUS - I AM A MORON...now I can live in a Rainbow World and believe it's UTOPIA

Please, new friend Quill...don't think or assume that my flippant attitude/sarcastic word usage means I'm mad/upset at you directly --- you just DON'T KNOW or understand what the INSIDE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LOOKS LIKE and that's nothing I have any power to change.

A woman doesn't necessarily have to feel threatened to slap a man, and she doesn't need to be an abuser. It could just be temper at a given moment because of a particular situation. Same with men really. If a pattern emerges, that's different.

Most male abusers actually start by being excessively loving, over enthusiastic, sweep her off her feet kind of thing.  Once she is hooked and in a position not to be able to leave easily, that's when the first attack happens.  The victim is normally so stunned by the complete about face and by the massive apologies afterwards, that they think they must have done something, in fact they are told they did something.   So the self doubt begins.  Those that don't leave at that point are dragged into the abyss.  And NO QUILL, they don't start it, so stop blaming the victim, it's despicable.

I found the other thread about women who had been killed by their partners.
It was after a TV programme had highlighted some cases...it was heartbreaking.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t12795-love-you-to-death



I know men can be abused too.... a thread was started at the same time so men could have their say.

Indeed they can, and very often exactly the same pattern emerges, the men feel overwhelmed with love and stunned when the violence starts and try to reason that they must have done something, and the merry-go-round starts.

Raggamuffin wrote:A woman doesn't necessarily have to feel threatened to slap a man, and she doesn't need to be an abuser. It could just be temper at a given moment because of a particular situation. Same with men really. If a pattern emerges, that's different.

True Rags.
I understand why women do slap men....it's a short sharp shock when they have overstepped the mark, usually in a sexual way.
It just seems wrong when men slap women though...it may be double standards but that's the way I feel.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Unfortunately, it's the short-cut to prosecution for domestic violence.  Call it self-defense if you will, but usually these domestic things start with a female getting physical and the male retaliating.  Look how they end up, no matter that it was self-defense.

The best thing you can do when a woman exhibits a propensity to get physical, is get rid of her.  It's not worth it, no matter how beautiful...or your feelings for her.  You'll end up with the same black eye, and in jail!

A man defending himself and a man retaliating are two different things Quill.

I never said a man should defend himself by hitting back.  You implied it.

I said if she, or anything about the chemistry of two people leads to violence, leave her.  No relationship is worth it if violence is in the offing.

I don't exactly know what you mean by "defend yourself".  If your counsel to your son involved anything except "get away from her" you became a part of the problem.

sassy wrote:Indeed they can, and very often exactly the same pattern emerges, the men feel overwhelmed with love and stunned when the violence starts and try to reason that they must have done something, and the merry-go-round starts.

Yes...I think I mentioned my son was involved with a girl who was quite abusive once...he got out quick thankfully.

It's when the person cant escape, through a variety of reasons that things escalate.

I cannot remember even thinking of slapping a female I have personally known, never occurred to me.
How your parents raise you has a bearing on things and this is one of them.

As a man, if you see another man slap a woman, what should you do?

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:A woman doesn't necessarily have to feel threatened to slap a man, and she doesn't need to be an abuser. It could just be temper at a given moment because of a particular situation. Same with men really. If a pattern emerges, that's different.

True Rags.
I understand why women do slap men....it's a short sharp shock when they have overstepped the mark, usually in a sexual way.
It just seems wrong when men slap women though...it may be double standards but that's the way I feel.

They might slap a man because he's been caught with another woman, or because he's being a prat. It was quite common in films to see women slapping a man, and it wasn't really frowned upon until fairly recently.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

A man defending himself and a man retaliating are two different things Quill.

I never said a man should defend himself by hitting back.  You implied it.

I said if she, or anything about the chemistry of two people leads to violence, leave her.  No relationship is worth it if violence is in the offing.

I don't exactly know what you mean by "defend yourself".  If your counsel to your son involved anything except "get away from her" you became a part of the problem.

You said..."It starts with the female getting violent and the male retaliating"
I had posted previously that I had told my son (who was a child at the time) that self defence was OK.

Like I said...self defence and retaliating are two different things. To defend oneself would depend on the event...getting away, restraining someone, disarming someone...whatever the situation required.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:

True Rags.
I understand why women do slap men....it's a short sharp shock when they have overstepped the mark, usually in a sexual way.
It just seems wrong when men slap women though...it may be double standards but that's the way I feel.

They might slap a man because he's been caught with another woman, or because he's being a prat. It was quite common in films to see women slapping a man, and it wasn't really frowned upon until fairly recently.

Yes, it was quite the in thing to slap a mans face in films...and to smoke, how times have changed.

Stormee wrote:I cannot remember even thinking of slapping a female I have personally known, never occurred to me.
How your parents raise you has a bearing on things and this is one of them.

As a man, if you see another man slap a woman, what should you do?

As a woman I would interfere...and I have.
I have heard of men interfering and having the woman who has been hit turn on him.

aspca4ever wrote:

Quill stated >>> These assumptions perpetuate the problem.  They are perpetually in the background, skewing our perceptions, until one day they come home to roost: because of them, women actually start the physical part of most situations of domestic, physical violence. Now that's just a fact.

 Now you might lay that HUGE mental egg out here for all of us to read as 'my/your opinion'...but there's absolutely no way - NADA/ZIP/ZILCH, that you can state it's a "FACT"
WAYYYYY

BTW - domestic violence is a human/emotional/society driven way of reacting/being raised and taught via what daddy does to my mommy - not what my daddy tells me I should do & react to negative stimuli...
It's got nothing to DO WITH POLITICS/political leaning thoughts in any manner.  
Strong Bible Belt regions are strong in their belief that 'women are to be seen and not heard; just like their children' that's a regional/faith based/society proven FACT!  

You seem to be yourself deeper into manure pile --- aren't you about to STEP OUT and take a breather?   Just joking~~~

Sometimes it takes an uphill climb, when ideas run counter to given beliefs. I'm used to it.

I think y'all are struggling with the idea that gynocentrism is a form of sexism. Heretofore, you have probably believed that feminism and gynocentrism go hand-in-hand.

This issue was worked through by the US Supreme Court in a gender case, Craig v. Boron, 429 U.S. 190 (1976). In Boron, the Court dealt with a situation in which there were differing drinking ages for men and women...lower for females than males. One rationale offered by the State of Oklahoma was that there were different social expectations for women, which necessitated them socializing in bars (one doesn't need to go far to see what they were saying: women needed to meet men at a younger age, so they could marry and have children).

You can see the one proffered rationale by Oklahoma was sexist to the core. But it was based upon gynocentric principles. It was the classic case of special favors for women, in order to keep them barefoot and pregnant. Almost every gynocentric assumption is, at its heart sexist in the same way.

Quill, you are not an expert on the subject.  The people that deal with this and see the results and try to stop it getting to the worst point, know exactly what happens and why it happens, and the above is simply words.  In fact, they are words written to try and control the thread lol

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They might slap a man because he's been caught with another woman, or because he's being a prat. It was quite common in films to see women slapping a man, and it wasn't really frowned upon until fairly recently.

Yes, it was quite the in thing to slap a mans face in films...and to smoke, how times have changed.

Do you remember A Bouquet of Barbed Wire? It was a series in the '70s, and people were a bit shocked by the affairs in it, and the implication that a man might fancy his daughter. Nobody mentioned the fact that it also dealt with the issue of domestic abuse and the idea that a woman might actually quite enjoy being beaten up.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes, it was quite the in thing to slap a mans face in films...and to smoke, how times have changed.

Do you remember A Bouquet of Barbed Wire? It was a series in the '70s, and people were a bit shocked by the affairs in it, and the implication that a man might fancy his daughter. Nobody mentioned the fact that it also dealt with the issue of domestic abuse and the idea that a woman might actually quite enjoy being beaten up.

That is called sado-masochism and is not the same thing as domestic abuse.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes, it was quite the in thing to slap a mans face in films...and to smoke, how times have changed.

Do you remember A Bouquet of Barbed Wire? It was a series in the '70s, and people were a bit shocked by the affairs in it, and the implication that a man might fancy his daughter. Nobody mentioned the fact that it also dealt with the issue of domestic abuse and the idea that a woman might actually quite enjoy being beaten up.

I do remember that series, I loved Frank Finley.
Oddly enough what I remember is the complex relationship between dad and daughter....I don't even remember the domestic violence.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Do you remember A Bouquet of Barbed Wire? It was a series in the '70s, and people were a bit shocked by the affairs in it, and the implication that a man might fancy his daughter. Nobody mentioned the fact that it also dealt with the issue of domestic abuse and the idea that a woman might actually quite enjoy being beaten up.

I do  remember that series, I loved Frank Finley.
Oddly enough what I remember is the complex relationship between dad and daughter....I don't even remember the domestic violence.

Gavin gave Prue a few slaps - for not wanting to go to work, or for whinging, and he beat her up after she told her mother about her father's affair, and put her in hospital. Then Cassie confessed that she herself had kind of enjoyed being slapped around a bit, and suggested that Prue might have encouraged Gavin to get violent with her. Prue was depicted as being rather excited by the idea of violence.

You have a good memory Rags. I would definitely watch this again if they re released it. I always thought Susan Penhaligan was lovely too.

Women who enjoy being hit (in the real world) are not the women who are abused by partners as talked of here.
It's a different mindset.
Have you been reading 50 shades by any chance?

Syl wrote:You have a good memory Rags. I would definitely watch this again if they re released it. I always thought Susan Penhaligan was lovely too.

Women who enjoy being hit (in the real world) are not the women who are abused by partners as talked of here.
It's a different mindset.
Have you been reading 50 shades by any chance?

I didn't actually watch it at the time - busy with homework. I got it later on video and I still have it, and the sequel.

Are there women who enjoy being hit? I guess there are, but Bouquet was fiction, and nobody batted an eyelid about the severe beating that Gavin gave Prue when she was very pregnant. In fact, he was quite a sympathetic character in it.

I haven't read 50 shades, and I don't intend to.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:You have a good memory Rags. I would definitely watch this again if they re released it. I always thought Susan Penhaligan was lovely too.

Women who enjoy being hit (in the real world) are not the women who are abused by partners as talked of here.
It's a different mindset.
Have you been reading 50 shades by any chance?

I didn't actually watch it at the time - busy with homework. I got it later on video and I still have it, and the sequel.

Are there women who enjoy being hit? I guess there are, but Bouquet was fiction, and nobody batted an eyelid about the severe beating that Gavin gave Prue when she was very pregnant. In fact, he was quite a sympathetic character in it.

I haven't read 50 shades, and I don't intend to.

I read it. I bought it before all the hype about it , I read the back cover and thought it was a thriller...I even sent my grandson to the till to buy it whilst I looked at something else....he still mentions it.

Times have changed thank goodness, not that long ago police were reluctant to get involved with "domestics"....it's better now but still has a long way to go.

If I slapped my wife I would not be able to see or walk the next day, she told me this 52 years ago, luckily for me I believed her. lol

Original Quill wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:
 Now you might lay that HUGE mental egg out here for all of us to read as 'my/your opinion'...but there's absolutely no way - NADA/ZIP/ZILCH, that you can state it's a "FACT"
WAYYYYY

BTW - domestic violence is a human/emotional/society driven way of reacting/being raised and taught via what daddy does to my mommy - not what my daddy tells me I should do & react to negative stimuli...
It's got nothing to DO WITH POLITICS/political leaning thoughts in any manner.  
Strong Bible Belt regions are strong in their belief that 'women are to be seen and not heard; just like their children' that's a regional/faith based/society proven FACT!  

You seem to be yourself deeper into manure pile --- aren't you about to STEP OUT and take a breather?   Just joking~~~

Sometimes it takes an uphill climb, when ideas run counter to given beliefs.  I'm used to it.

I think y'all are struggling with the idea that gynocentrism is a form of sexism.  Heretofore, you have probably believed that feminism and gynocentrism go hand-in-hand.

This issue was worked through by the US Supreme Court in a gender case, Craig v. Boron, 429 U.S. 190 (1976).  In Boron, the Court dealt with a situation in which there were differing drinking ages for men and women...lower for females than males.  One rationale offered by the State of Oklahoma was that there were different social expectations for women, which necessitated them socializing in bars (one doesn't need to go far to see what they were saying: women needed to meet men at a younger age, so they could marry and have children).

You can see the one proffered rationale by Oklahoma was sexist to the core.  But it was based upon gynocentric principles.  It was the classic case of special favors for women, in order to keep them barefoot and pregnant.  Almost every gynocentric assumption is, at its heart sexist in the same way.

GOOD GRIEF; you're surely not trying to make a 'FACTUAL CASE' based on a old trail case that was decided back 1976; about drinking ages and the difference in genders --- ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!!! SWEET JESUS, the question posed by the OP'd was 'SLAPPING - is it appropriate for either gender to do this?'

I had to go find my psychology tagged discussion threads to see if this "GYNOCENTRIC" had ever been kicked around on any other community forum discussion board and --- WHEW...
And yes, it had been by a diverse group of women {older vs younger} regarding the women's movement and whether or not it was relevant in todays society! That topic became very heated and ran the gambit from the struggle for our Right To Vote to Women's Lib - to the abortion vs pro-life!
GYNOCENTRIC - is a theory; and a much disputed theory - has no factual basis - no historical records, just what-if's and hypothesis!
And if you are trying to connect the 'what-if dots' between that and your worded posts about 'WOMEN BEING THE PERPETRATORS' and the reason's why men become so able to act & react and provide the domestic violent crimes that they have!

I'll not attempt to redirect your highly misguided train of thought on this matter! You clearly do not have enough complete grasp of the simplistic premise and basic humanoids mental ability to do such heinous/torturous acts against another human life form--- that they'll swear on their 'mothers grave - I loved that woman to death' and indeed that is what is the 'NORM' for the abuser to do to the victim in all domestic violence cases!
You don't have any faith in all of the factual data/stats and links that you've been supplied many times over by many of us --- I'll withdrawal and leave you to your Hypothetical Theory Regarding > GYNOCENTRIC...good luck with all of that --- it's got ZERO BEARING IN THIS THREAD.

Where did you get the energy for that lol.  I looked at his post and replied 'and the above is simply words'!  LOL.   Well done you for taking the time.

sassy wrote:Where did you get the energy for that lol.  I looked at his post and replied 'and the above is simply words'!  LOL.   Well done you for taking the time.

Some things just need that 'extra mile' to push/pull and drag the simple minded into the light of day; a promise that I made to my dying sister --- doing all I can because she didn't when she was alive to speak up for herself!

BTW --- I've saved all of your links and posts regarding those stats and important info for my flagged/tagged files...
TY for all of those; while I don't have family living in the UK, I do have other websites that the 'Single Women' are always asking for advice and posting concerns on --- this added local links will be greatly 'pay it forward'!

What a good idea, as women, any chance we have to give help to other women should always be taken.  I completely understand why you would feel so pasionately in view of what happened to your sister, words don't cover it do they.

On an international note, if you are interested, you might find this site interesting.  http://www.womenforwomen.org.uk/?gclid=CMSUpce_kcsCFUsUwwodq9YL2A

Women working for women all over the world.

EXCELLENT...snagged that link too!

Glad to be of help.

Syl wrote:As an adult have you ever slapped anyone or been slapped?

Is it still more acceptable for a woman to slap a man than a man to slap a woman?

Been slapped by countless women. And deservedly. Sometimes I say and do some cheeky shit. I like to shock.

Only slap guys who are weasels and couldn't take a punch. Never out of anger and only when they have it coming.

Sassy stated >>> What a good idea, as women, any chance we have to give help to other women should always be taken. I completely understand why you would feel so passionately in view of what happened to your sister, words don't cover it do they.

Having helped raise those 6 children - {left orphaned by that horrid murder/suicide event}...I struggled for several years with the deepest - gut wrenching anger towards Mexican men and yet when I looked at those wounded eyes of my 2 nephew little boys and 4 little girls that so resembled their Mexican linage so strongly...I knew I had to put that horrid-vile racial hate aside and love those orphan that became my extended family. And as the oldest boy grew into the spitt'n image of his father and he had to deal with that 'look-alike' image in the mirror every day - day-in-day-out...it seemed like an extra cruel sick/twisted joke that his sick/twisted father would've enjoyed tormenting the very son that he used to beat so fiercely.
In dredging up my deceased BIL's bio and family tree we managed to find his REAL FAMILY name and the history of his brutal father's treatment towards his own little kids --- and some letters that my BIL had sent home to his dear sainted mother that she'd tucked away-in a very dry safe place. Those letters showed a side of a young man working through so many horrific social issues on his own and finding no solace or help but trying to undo the demons that haunted and often controlled his every emotion. Those letters helped us all heal and we had to learn to forgive him for his demons and the methods that he used against his own children and 5 wives - my sister being the last.
Life isn't a guarantee that all of us are going to get through to the end of days without some broken & mended spirts and obstacles --- but it's what we CHOSE to do with those scars that make us or break us!
Personally, I've had enough loss and I've seen my fair share of broken humans; I don't plan on being another victim or give up before I see the end of the road. But in a way of explaining my gut wrenching reaction to certain unkind words...hearing the mean/bullying that was put upon my Mexican nieces & nephews when they'd already survived so very much --- well, it does tweak those scars and it does break open old wounds. Scars like loss of our loved ones do stay with us forever and it's shocking how some off hand remark or word will trigger such intense deeply seated emotions in me!

That made me cry.  I have struggled with forgiving my daughter's partner because of what he did and brought up my grandaughter, so it rang so many bells on so many levels.   Well done you for managing it.

This thread is so touching thanks to the nature of some of the posts.

Thanks for bring so open and helpful....because other people who never speak out, or just happen across the forum could be really helped by what Sassy and 4ever have posted.

It is interesting in a thread that basically asks if its alright for women to use physical abuse/violence against men

the fact that men ARE abused is relegated to a mere comment that men make up a minor 19% of victims

the fact is that many more are victims of particularly psychological abuse, and dont get counted in the grim toll of statistics becasue they quietly go away and commit suicide (and so get counted "elsewhere")

Tis always the same ...abuse...nah! its not a male "issue"

id a man is abused, PARTICULARLY where the abuse is psychological, the authorities dont want to know/ccouldnt care less...and STILL today, if a man phones up from home reporting domestic violence the greatest chance is that HE will be made to leave the house ...not HER...

Lord Foul wrote:It is interesting in a thread that basically asks if its alright for women to use physical abuse/violence against men

the fact that men ARE abused is relegated to a mere comment that men make up a minor 19% of victims

the fact is that many more are victims of particularly psychological abuse, and dont get counted in the grim toll of statistics becasue they quietly go away and commit suicide (and so get counted "elsewhere")

Tis always the same ...abuse...nah! its not a male "issue"

id a man is abused, PARTICULARLY where the abuse is psychological, the authorities dont want to know/ccouldnt care less...and STILL today, if a man phones up from home reporting domestic violence the greatest chance is that HE will be made to leave the house ...not HER...

No one has said it's not a male issue.....you even got a thread dedicated to women who abuse men last time this was talked about LF, and you wasn't happy about it either......here it is if you want to add to it.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t12821-men-who-are-abused-by-women

Lord Foul wrote:It is interesting in a thread that basically asks if its alright for women to use physical abuse/violence against men

the fact that men ARE abused is relegated to a mere comment that men make up a minor 19% of victims

the fact is that many more are victims of particularly psychological abuse, and dont get counted in the grim toll of statistics becasue they quietly go away and commit suicide (and so get counted "elsewhere")

Tis always the same ...abuse...nah! its not a male "issue"

id a man is abused, PARTICULARLY where the abuse is psychological, the authorities dont want to know/ccouldnt care less...and STILL today, if a man phones up from home reporting domestic violence the greatest chance is that HE will be made to leave the house ...not HER...

True, so very true...but society is changing --- nothing happens over night; and as a couple of us have pointed out --- the method of brainwashing our children into 'do as I say - not as I do' leaves many a repressed child highly confused and conflicted with 'WTH is my role in life'! We are {my generation for sure = baby boomers} making inroads for allowing male children to be more emotionally expressive without the 'SUCK IT UP AND BEHAVE LIKE A MAN' --- those years of force feeding that bilge onto our young male children was part & partial reasons that repressed horrors of war/PTSD were never spoken of when they came back from WWI or WWII or even Viet Nam.

Those stoic/silent/be a man ignorant rhetoric ideas, allowed many a domestic violent situation to play out behind those closed doors of many a family dynamic --- and because society frowned upon divorce those men were STUCK. Lots of changes in our length of matrimony now~~~

aspca4ever wrote:Please, new friend Quill...don't think or assume that my flippant attitude/sarcastic word usage means I'm mad/upset at you directly --- you just DON'T KNOW or understand what the INSIDE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LOOKS LIKE and that's nothing I have any power to change.  

I understand very well. I am an attorney, and have represented both sides in hundreds of disputes. In addition, I am a former law enforcement officer. Also, I am a former professor of law enforcement at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, of the City University of New York, and the University of Arizona. I am very familiar with the studies and data.

And your background???

Aspca wrote:you're surely not trying to make a 'FACTUAL CASE' based on a old trail case that was decided back 1976; about drinking ages and the difference in genders ---

Lol. I argue the same thing about religion. WTF, you are wasting your Sundays—one-seventh of your life—all because some dude was executed 2,100-years ago for being drunk and disorderly?? Get a life!

Original Quill wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:Please, new friend Quill...don't think or assume that my flippant attitude/sarcastic word usage means I'm mad/upset at you directly --- you just DON'T KNOW or understand what the INSIDE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LOOKS LIKE and that's nothing I have any power to change.  

I understand very well.  I am an attorney, and have represented both sides in hundreds of disputes.  In addition, I am a former law enforcement officer.  Also, I am a former professor of law enforcement at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, of the City University of New York, and the University of Arizona.  I am very familiar with the studies and data.

And your background???

And 'YOUR' assumptions that your resume makes/or proves your POV just all that and the bag of chips too???

OMG, not hardly...you've just totally reinforced my history with how local law enforcement has handled domestic violence in the past 30+ years!
WELL DONE, my friend.

Aspca wrote:the simplistic premise and basic humanoids mental ability to do such heinous/torturous acts against another human life form--- that they'll swear on their 'mothers grave - I loved that woman to death' and indeed that is what is the 'NORM' for the abuser to do to the victim in all domestic violence cases!
You don't have any faith in all of the factual data/stats

WTF does that mean??  “Basic humanoids mental ability”??  “Heinous/torturous acts against another…”??  “I loved that woman to death…”??

I don’t have any faith in all of the factual data/stats…”???  Forgetting your abuse simple language (torturous acts?  fcs, it’s criminal…), and that you are employing what psychologists say is living the scripts and stereotypes of the narrative, I am embracing the "data/stats" much more than you.  I am arguing them--living, breathing argument--while you stand outside and enshrine them, having no idea what they mean or where they come from.

You can’t stand rational discussion, and you have given up.  If you could you handle it, you would deal with the factual arguments instead of treating them like statutes.  

I have shown you three reasons why the data are suspect.  Is there anything wrong with discussing that instead of having a shit-fit?

aspca4ever wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I understand very well.  I am an attorney, and have represented both sides in hundreds of disputes.  In addition, I am a former law enforcement officer.  Also, I am a former professor of law enforcement at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, of the City University of New York, and the University of Arizona.  I am very familiar with the studies and data.

And your background???

And 'YOUR' assumptions that your resume makes/or proves your POV just all that and the bag of chips too???  

OMG, not hardly...you've just totally reinforced my history with how local law enforcement has handled domestic violence in the past 30+ years!  
WELL DONE, my friend.

And yet...it's so much better than your resume. You can't even organize your thoughts.

Original Quill wrote:

Aspca wrote:you're surely not trying to make a 'FACTUAL CASE' based on a old trail case that was decided back 1976; about drinking ages and the difference in genders ---

Lol.  I argue the same thing about religion.  WTF, you are wasting your Sundays—one-seventh of your life—all because some dude was executed 2,100-years ago for being drunk and disorderly??  Get a life!

Well that's not very nice. Those people don't think they're wasting their time, and they do have a life which makes them happy. What a pity you chose to attack those with religious faith in this thread.

Lord Foul wrote:It is interesting in a thread that basically asks if its alright for women to use physical abuse/violence against men

the fact that men ARE abused is relegated to a mere comment that men make up a minor 19% of victims

the fact is that many more are victims of particularly psychological abuse, and dont get counted in the grim toll of statistics becasue they quietly go away and commit suicide (and so get counted "elsewhere")

Tis always the same ...abuse...nah! its not a male "issue"

id a man is abused, PARTICULARLY where the abuse is psychological, the authorities dont want to know/ccouldnt care less...and STILL today, if a man phones up from home reporting domestic violence the greatest chance is that HE will be made to leave the house ...not HER...

Superb post, deserves a greenie.

At this point, I'm even more interested in the intensity of the response.  The argument has become explosive and irrational, almost too soon.  I think we have touched upon a sensitive area of the female-victimhood self-esteem. The over-reaction suggests it's a shrine too sensitive to touch...almost blasphemy!

Original Quill wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:It is interesting in a thread that basically asks if its alright for women to use physical abuse/violence against men

the fact that men ARE abused is relegated to a mere comment that men make up a minor 19% of victims

the fact is that many more are victims of particularly psychological abuse, and dont get counted in the grim toll of statistics becasue they quietly go away and commit suicide (and so get counted "elsewhere")

Tis always the same ...abuse...nah! its not a male "issue"

id a man is abused, PARTICULARLY where the abuse is psychological, the authorities dont want to know/ccouldnt care less...and STILL today, if a man phones up from home reporting domestic violence the greatest chance is that HE will be made to leave the house ...not HER...

Superb post, deserves a greenie.

At this point, I'm even more interested in the intensity of the response.  The argument has become explosive and irrational, almost too soon.  I think we have touched upon a sensitive area of the female-victimhood self-esteem.

Don't speak for all women. I haven't read a lot of posts in this thread because it all got a bit heavy, and I don't really get why people don't just dump someone who beats them up.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Superb post, deserves a greenie.

At this point, I'm even more interested in the intensity of the response.  The argument has become explosive and irrational, almost too soon.  I think we have touched upon a sensitive area of the female-victimhood self-esteem.

Don't speak for all women. I haven't read a lot of posts in this thread because it all got a bit heavy, and I don't really get why people don't just dump someone who beats them up.

You are right.  From what I've seen, I can't include you...certainly others, as well.

What you are suggesting--"why people don't just dump someone who beats them up"--is exactly what I suggested, and which started all this emotional response.

Treating physical abuse like a disease to be expunged is the only way to solve the problem.  That goes for anyone exhibiting the least symptom, because the disease is progressive.  One physical act almost always invites another.  For that reason, any physical act would be symptomatic and should be grounds for terminating the relationship.

Aspca wrote:True, so very true...but society is changing --- nothing happens over night; and as a couple of us have pointed out --- the method of brainwashing our children into 'do as I say - not as I do' leaves many a repressed child highly confused and conflicted with 'WTH is my role in life'! We are {my generation for sure = baby boomers} making inroads for allowing male children to be more emotionally expressive without the 'SUCK IT UP AND BEHAVE LIKE A MAN' --- those years of force feeding that bilge onto our young male children was part & partial reasons that repressed horrors of war/PTSD were never spoken of when they came back from WWI or WWII or even Viet Nam.

This sounds vaguely like the arguments we used to hear in the 50's and 60's about segregation and racism.  Go slow...give people the time to transition.

Meanwhile, other people are being disenfranchised of their rights, and they are being denied equal opportunity.  Right is right, and wrong is wrong.  We don't have time to tolerate an gestation period for morality.

The time to be intolerant of any kind of domestic abuse is right now, right away.