Slapping.

sassy wrote:As I said, total dense, and a total lack of understanding of the psychological situations of these women, victim blaming and part of the problem.

sassy wrote:How stupid can one person get.  Dear oh dear.

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

sassy wrote:You see Rags, you prove me right over and over again, your lack of knowlege and coldness (I truly don't believe you have anything you love more than yourself), your failure to grasp how dangerous a situation would be makes you a danger to anyone under threat of violence.  I sincerely hope you never have to deal with it, they'll be dead so fast.

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

wow
Victor that is Brutal

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

wow
Victor that is Brutal

Raggamuffin wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

wow
Victor that is Brutal

Here comes the gobby IRA supporter. I hope you're not going to pretend that you disapprove of beating up women ...

sassy wrote:She goes to the police and she tells them everything? And then what.? Her word against his, absolutely no evidence, the police would have told her to go away. This was back in the late 70s and we still have police saying lessons have been learnt when yet another woman and her children die after they have asked for police help over and over again.

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

sassy wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

wow
Victor that is Brutal

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

Raggamuffin wrote:I didn't understand Victor's post anyway - it seemed to be completely irrelevant.

Lord Foul wrote:oh do grow up the pair of you...

and eddie...get a grip. didges family wasnt insulted...at all....(unless he considers having ragga as a family member an insult   )  

talk about LOOKING, with a microscope, for something to whinge about

by the two most nasty mouthed posters here...

as you said to me after delivering an unjustified mouthful of abuse

tough shit....if you dont like it you know what you can do.....

now go cry in your coffee or whatever

Lord Foul wrote:oh do grow up the pair of you...

and eddie...get a grip. didges family wasnt insulted...at all....(unless he considers having ragga as a family member an insult   )  

talk about LOOKING, with a microscope, for something to whinge about

by the two most nasty mouthed posters here...

as you said to me after delivering an unjustified mouthful of abuse

tough shit....if you dont like it you know what you can do.....

now go cry in your coffee or whatever

Original Quill wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:Those are such shocking/sad and pathetic statistics to see in black & white!  SMH, I hope that there'll come a time that such incidents are so rare that it's less then 1% of any given day - any where in the world that domestic violence/workplace violence/all genders/all age groups/all races have to deal with such horrible abuses.  

But as sad as those stats are the ones on the increase from our active duty military and the consistent high percentages for our law enforcement humans is just outrageous and needs a total clean sweep! IMHO

Statistics in this are are highly suspect.  That is because before they are counted as base data, they go through a host of filtration factors.  

First and foremost, a male is reluctant to complain.  There is a veritable ban on self-reporting.  It's girly to whine.  It's unmanly to be seen as the victim.  It's also seen as impolite, or unmanly, to put a woman in jeopardy; simply put, men don't tell.  It used to be that the only reason that police found out about female violence is because they had to respond and see for themselves.

Second, there are much fewer institutions for collecting data from/about abused.  Police engage in the same presumption that women do, that the man cannot be hurt.  If a male is removed, and not jailed, he generally goes to a hotel; hotels don't keep such records.  There are no shelters for men to keep records.  The absence of data-collection, except when taken into custody, means the statistics are heavily weighted in favor or women.

Third, the police institutions themselves perpetuate the myth.  Cops, responding to a domestic dispute, take the path of least resistance.  They take the male out of the situation.  He's the one they fear...of course, because he is bigger.  If there are children involved, the perception is that the female is needed in the home as the caretaker.  Finally, men are simply cheaper to incarcerate: It takes twice as much money to care for a woman in a prison situation, as a man.  Then, a record must be kept, perhaps charges to justify the incarceration, so the male/female tally is heavily weighted toward males over females.

So the data are untrustworthy when it comes to such a volatile issue as domestic violence.

Original Quill wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:Please, new friend Quill...don't think or assume that my flippant attitude/sarcastic word usage means I'm mad/upset at you directly --- you just DON'T KNOW or understand what the INSIDE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LOOKS LIKE and that's nothing I have any power to change.  

I understand very well.  I am an attorney, and have represented both sides in hundreds of disputes.  In addition, I am a former law enforcement officer.  Also, I am a former professor of law enforcement at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, of the City University of New York, and the University of Arizona.  I am very familiar with the studies and data.

And your background???

HoratioTarr wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I understand very well.  I am an attorney, and have represented both sides in hundreds of disputes.  In addition, I am a former law enforcement officer.  Also, I am a former professor of law enforcement at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, of the City University of New York, and the University of Arizona.  I am very familiar with the studies and data.

And your background???

All those qualifications and not a speck of sense! 

sassy wrote:Quill, during the course of this thread you have shown yourself to be at best ignorant, and at worst an apologist for abuse.  You started by saying that abuse normally starts with the woman doing something that makes the man hit her, or the other way round.  That is not only victim blaming, it flies in the face of every study undertaken and every bit of evidence there is. 

I apologise in advance Victor, because I am going to talk about men abusing women, and that does not mean that I in any way either condone or minimise the pain caused when it is the other way round.  It is simply that I have been involved in helping women who have been abused and know the FACTS about it, the way it starts and psychology employed.  I have to admit that I don't know about the psychology of women who abuse men.

Lets start right at the very beginning.  Men who are abusive pick out their victim and groom them.  They pick on a woman who has a vunerability.  It might be obvious, like a lack of confidence or a disability, but it might not be.  The man for example could find out that the women comes from a troubled childhood, or simply that she wants to be loved.  From then on the grooming starts.  To begin with he is wonderful to her.  Women will often say 'he swept me off my feet', 'he couldn't do enough for me', 'he was so kind and considerate'.   Then comes the next stage.  Once the woman is dependent emotionally he will start cutting her off from friends and family.  A favourity ploy is 'oh but we only need each other, we don't need them' and so she becomes more dependent, emotionally and socially.  Often they will then start holding on to money - 'you don't go out, you don't need money'.   It is normally at this point that violence starts.  Not much to begin with, and the women is told she caused it 'my tea was horrible' 'my shirt was creased'.   Many men are so controlled that they keep it at this level until she has children, because women who have children are desperate to make sure they have a father and family for them, that's a psychological imprint that very few can get away from.  Then there is the undermining 'you'd never survive by yourself' 'who'd want you' etc etc.  By the time the real violence starts the woman no long believes she is capable of surviving by herself and doesn't have the confidence or finances to leave, and if it looks like she just might find them, then the threats start, 'I'll kill you' 'I'll kill the kids' 'You'll never get away from me'.


Years ago, when I first went back to work when my children were teenagers I worked as a PA for a Lloyds Underwriter in Colchester.  At the interview nobody told me how many PAs he had gone through.  Also working there was his wife, who was also an underwriter and a girl who was her secretary.   In a very short time I realised he was not only abusive, but nuts, and his wife was terrified of him.  I came in the final day I worked there and she was sat there trembling, with a black eye.  I managed to pretend that she had a meeting with another firm and got her out to talk to, to try and persuade her to leave, but I couldn't.  They had two horses who she absolutely adored, and he had told her that if she left  he would take a knife to the horses and torture and killl them in front of her very slowly.  She had no proof of this to take to the police and would not even think of leaving.  It turned out, that wasn't the worst thing he had done.  He had a little girl from a previous marriage (she'd managed to get away from him, but the courts had given him joint access).  He'd had the little girl for the weekend (she was 4), she made a noise and a mess and he was in a furious temper.  He had made the wife I was talking to go with him while he drove the little girl home.  He delliberately stopped on the opposite side of the road to the house and told the little girl to run home.  She did, straight in front of a car, and was killed.  He then threatened the horses to get his wife to say it was an accident.  I will never forget her face when she told me, the burden she was carrying and the fact I couldn't get her to leave.  I even offered to help her get the horses out while he was at work, but she was terrified he would find out.

I left that day, with no notice, but I often worry what happened to her, all those years ago.

No Quill, victims don't cause their abuse and they can't just 'walk away', the abuser has made sure the trap is sprung long before the violence starts.

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:OFFS Rags, NO, she was terrified for herself but mostly for her horses, he had her absolutely convinced that whatever she did he'd find her and them and destroy them.    And she had the financial means to have the same lifestyle with or which him.  Have you any idea what a Lloyds underwriter makes?

So she moves the horses FFS! Then she goes to the police, and she tells them everything. She let a child die and said fuck all. I don't buy this story.

Lord Foul wrote:you made a joke??


oh...OK then...

my mistake


I didnt think you HAD a sense of humour

HoratioTarr wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So she moves the horses FFS! Then she goes to the police, and she tells them everything. She let a child die and said fuck all. I don't buy this story.

you have no idea how fear works.    Real fear, true blue funk, is crippling, and whilst we can all sit back and say what we'd do in that situation, the reality is far far worse.

eddie wrote:I must admit, I find it hard to get my head around women who stay after a child is harmed or dies.

Lord Foul wrote:what you ACTUALLY need to ask yourself is......


would I have given a shit either way???

Didge wrote:Actually it shows a shortsightedness by sassy why some men end up abusing.

My Irish grandfather fought throughout WW2 and had never been abusive until he came back and turned to drink to attempt to drown out the nightmares he continued to have after the conflict. There is nothing to excuse his violence, and I condemn it full but there is also such a thing as post traumatic stress which effects the lives of thousands of soldiers. So whilst I do not deny some men go out of their way to manipulate women to control them and abuse them we also fail thousands of the armed forces who simple cannot cope with what they have been through. Hence why it is not so cut and dry and sassy is trying to make out. He drank away the shop the family had and hit out all the time at the family. My grandmother died in the end of a heart attack and he died not long after of a broken heart. To me they were yet more victims of the effects of that war.

aspca4ever wrote:

Didge wrote:Actually it shows a shortsightedness by sassy why some men end up abusing.

My Irish grandfather fought throughout WW2 and had never been abusive until he came back and turned to drink to attempt to drown out the nightmares he continued to have after the conflict. There is nothing to excuse his violence, and I condemn it full but there is also such a thing as post traumatic stress which effects the lives of thousands of soldiers. So whilst I do not deny some men go out of their way to manipulate women to control them and abuse them we also fail thousands of the armed forces who simple cannot cope with what they have been through. Hence why it is not so cut and dry and sassy is trying to make out. He drank away the shop the family had and hit out all the time at the family. My grandmother died in the end of a heart attack and he died not long after of a broken heart. To me they were yet more victims of the effects of that war.

I know you weren't locked & loaded into this entire debacle topic yesterday or the day before --- but between all of us    cussing & discussing this Domestic Violence issue we {that didn't get hysterical} have covered the entire spectrum of the methods and reasoning's behind what prompts ANYONE regardless of gender to ABUSE!  

You might need to wander backwards a wee-bit farther then the Ragg's finite/fixation on a hearsay story that has garnered so very much of her backward thinking!    Just say'n; I wouldn't want you to look foolish, by taking Ragg's opinion or word for a complete and knowledgeable grasp of Domestic Violence just from her ranting BS posts!  

aspca4ever wrote:

Didge wrote:Actually it shows a shortsightedness by sassy why some men end up abusing.

My Irish grandfather fought throughout WW2 and had never been abusive until he came back and turned to drink to attempt to drown out the nightmares he continued to have after the conflict. There is nothing to excuse his violence, and I condemn it full but there is also such a thing as post traumatic stress which effects the lives of thousands of soldiers. So whilst I do not deny some men go out of their way to manipulate women to control them and abuse them we also fail thousands of the armed forces who simple cannot cope with what they have been through. Hence why it is not so cut and dry and sassy is trying to make out. He drank away the shop the family had and hit out all the time at the family. My grandmother died in the end of a heart attack and he died not long after of a broken heart. To me they were yet more victims of the effects of that war.

I know you weren't locked & loaded into this entire debacle topic yesterday or the day before --- but between all of us    cussing & discussing this Domestic Violence issue we {that didn't get hysterical} have covered the entire spectrum of the methods and reasoning's behind what prompts ANYONE regardless of gender to ABUSE!  

You might need to wander backwards a wee-bit farther then the Ragg's finite/fixation on a hearsay story that has garnered so very much of her backward thinking!    Just say'n; I wouldn't want you to look foolish, by taking Ragg's opinion or word for a complete and knowledgeable grasp of Domestic Violence just from her ranting BS posts!  

WOW - who knew it could be so F'n easy to FIX DOMESTIC VIOLENCE that you were subjected to by police officer that you MARRIED!!!
SWEET JESUS - I AM A MORON...now I can live in a Rainbow World and believe it's UTOPIA

You don't have any faith in all of the factual data/stats and links that you've been supplied many times over by many of us --- I'll withdrawal and leave you to your Hypothetical Theory Regarding > GYNOCENTRIC...good luck with all of that --- it's got ZERO BEARING IN THIS THREAD.

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

HoratioTarr wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

I think he's rubbing off on her 

She'll be telling Sass it's 'moot'  next!

HoratioTarr wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

I think he's rubbing off on her 

She'll be telling Sass it's 'moot'  next!

Didge wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

Reported for abuse

So now if a poster dislikes me its okay to then claim through association there is something wrong with my sisters or equate a poster to being my sister, thus making the absurd view there is something wrong with my family


How pathetic and childish, proving you are utterly immature

You claim to have seen and understand abuse and then use abuse as a weapon defeating your own argument.

eddie wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:ragga.....I gotta ask....

you aint married to didge are you???

or maybe his sister??

or.......???

Vic don't bring other posters family members in please.

Didge wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

All those qualifications and not a speck of sense! 

And you based this from what exactly?

Your own?

Quite an immature reply really, if you think he is wrong then reason your points

Didge stated >>> That is fair enough, just saying there are more avenues that lead to domestic violence that has been stated
Not defending any of this as its always wrong, but people are not being open minded enough on the issue
I have made no views on Rags points and would no doubt disagree

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:


And you based this from what exactly?

Your own?

Quite an immature reply really, if you think he is wrong then reason your points

Haven't you got any posts to report?

aspca4ever wrote:

Didge stated >>> That is fair enough, just saying there are more avenues that lead to domestic violence that has been stated
Not defending any of this as its always wrong, but people are not being open minded enough on the issue
I have made no views on Rags points and would no doubt disagree

Oh, we've posted and regurgitated the info and posted helpful sights & links that need to be shared with anyone/everyone that has known or might know a human suffering from abuse...
It's just rather pathetic that 'SOME' posters go off the rail about a posted conversation between 2 people from 1970 that was only used as an EXAMPLE for discussion sakes and that's all...
ADHD seems to be a hazard with Ragg's and the vitriol that spells from her finger is a prime example of her irrational/hysteria driven way of communicating!