Claudia Rankine: ‘Blackness in the white imagination has nothing to do with black people’

by Guest Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:11 am

First topic message reminder :

The award-winning poet on Serena Williams, her emotional book signings and why racism is inescapable

Your book, Citizen: An American Lyric, has won the National Book Critics’ Circle poetry award in the US, the Forward in the UK and is shortlisted for the TS Eliot prize. It exposes racism in the US at its most violent and at its most nuanced. Why the title?
I called it Citizen because I wanted to ask: who gets to hold that status – despite everyone technically having it? How is it embodied and honoured? The title contains a question.

What the book does most powerfully is to make it clear that racism is everyone’s problem.
Racism is complicated. White people feel personally responsible for racism when they should understand the problem as systemic. It is interfering as much with their lives as with the lives of people of colour. And racism can lodge in them. It isn’t them yet it can become them if they are not taking notice.

Does the subject sometimes feel a burden to write about?
For me, this will sound odd. I find it interesting to look at language itself and think about what language can do. Language reveals something that happens so fast. It is language that pulls moments into their reality. And for readers – for people of colour – they have said they find it cathartic to have moments that they have kept to themselves openly written about.

Is there a denial of racism among black people?
I don’t think black people are in denial. They just need to lead their lives. They are going to shut things up and there will be repression. I include myself in that.

I find it interesting to look at language itself and think about what language can do
The book is much more than autobiographical. How many people did you interview in preparation for writing?
It was a loose anthropological exercise [laughter]. I spoke to my friends! About 25 people, black and white.

Has Serena Williams read or responded to the piece in Citizen in which you champion her?
Well, do you know what has just happened? Apparently, Serena Williams is [Sports Illustrated’s] athlete of the year and the LA Times has put out a cover to its sports magazine asking the question: does Serena Williams deserves sportsperson of the year more than a horse? [Kentucky Derby winner American Pharaoh is the horse in question.] As one of my friends protested: this is the same paper that made Citizen one of its books of the year. And, yes, Serena has seen what I wrote about her. I interviewed her for the New York Times in August. I took her willingness to be interviewed as a sign of approval.

“Because white men can’t/ police their imagination/ black men are dying.” What was in your mind when you wrote that line?
When white men are shooting black people, some of it is malice and some an out-of-control image of blackness in their minds. Darren Wilson told the jury that he shot Michael Brown because he looked “like a demon”. And I don’t disbelieve it. Blackness in the white imagination has nothing to do with black people.

Why is it so hard to call out racism?
Because making other people uncomfortable is thought worse than racism. It has taken me a while to train myself to speak out.

You make “situation videos” with your husband, John Lucas, using news stories, to illustrate your poems dynamically…
Yes – have you seen the recent video in Clinton correctional facility where guards refer to a black prisoner’s “non-compliant” body? He is non-compliant because he is dead.

You quote a friend of yours who said: “The condition of black life is one of mourning.” Do you agree?
Yes, I would agree, although black culture is also alive and vibrant.

You have a daughter – how do you arm her against racism?
It is important black parents are on guard against self-hatred, which gets communicated to children. We talk about racism but my daughter gets sick of it and rolls her eyes…

You were born in Jamaica. Do you define yourself through it? Do you feel pride in being black? Or is that a racist question – I’d find it absurd if anyone asked me whether I have pride in being white…
It is not a question I would ask. It is like asking: do you feel a pride in being human? I am a black person, it has made me into the person I am. I grew up with Jamaican parents and came here when I was seven. My parents came to the US, as all immigrants do, for economic betterment. We lived in the Bronx. My parents worked as hospital orderlies. I know it’s not the image people have of the Bronx but we had a comfortable, regular working-class life.

How did this lead to becoming a writer?
I went to Williams College, a fantastic liberal arts school. I started writing in my sophomore year after reading the poet Adrienne Rich and thinking: this is almost right but does not quite say what I want to say…

How often in your life in southern California does racism impinge on you?
I have had a privileged life in academia. But racism is inescapable, even among well-educated, questioning people.

You have mentioned walking in the mountains with your dog, Sammy. Is that your escape when you are not on the literary frontline?
I am considering walking in the mountains this afternoon, but don’t see it as an escape. Walking is slow, meditative.

You have talked about an incident at an airport where you were travelling with your husband, who is white. You were stopped and you said: “I am being racially profiled.” Why did they stop you?
You can’t know – but they stopped me. Then they said: “Go.” No explanation. When I said: “I’m being racially profiled”, the official asked: “Why are you saying that?” And he did look chagrined.

In a New Yorker article you wrote: “There really is no mode of empathy that can replicate the daily strain of knowing that as a black person you can be killed simply for being black.” What is needed if empathy is useless?
I’m not saying that anything can be enough. Empathy is not a cure.

What’s the most surprising reaction to your book been so far?
The initial embrace of the book was surprising. You don’t know if two people will read it. And to have people come out in force… The most surprising thing has been the number of Asian women who have come up to me at book signings with tears in their eyes to say: this is my life you’re writing.

Citizen: An American Lyric is published by Penguin (£9.99). Click here to order a copy for £7.99

More interviews Topics

Your book, Citizen: An American Lyric, has won the National Book Critics’ Circle poetry award in the US, the Forward in the UK and is shortlisted for the TS Eliot prize. It exposes racism in the US at its most violent and at its most nuanced. Why the title?
I called it Citizen because I wanted to ask: who gets to hold that status – despite everyone technically having it? How is it embodied and honoured? The title contains a question.

What the book does most powerfully is to make it clear that racism is everyone’s problem.
Racism is complicated. White people feel personally responsible for racism when they should understand the problem as systemic. It is interfering as much with their lives as with the lives of people of colour. And racism can lodge in them. It isn’t them yet it can become them if they are not taking notice.

Does the subject sometimes feel a burden to write about?
For me, this will sound odd. I find it interesting to look at language itself and think about what language can do. Language reveals something that happens so fast. It is language that pulls moments into their reality. And for readers – for people of colour – they have said they find it cathartic to have moments that they have kept to themselves openly written about.

Is there a denial of racism among black people?
I don’t think black people are in denial. They just need to lead their lives. They are going to shut things up and there will be repression. I include myself in that.

I find it interesting to look at language itself and think about what language can do
The book is much more than autobiographical. How many people did you interview in preparation for writing?
It was a loose anthropological exercise [laughter]. I spoke to my friends! About 25 people, black and white.

Has Serena Williams read or responded to the piece in Citizen in which you champion her?
Well, do you know what has just happened? Apparently, Serena Williams is [Sports Illustrated’s] athlete of the year and the LA Times has put out a cover to its sports magazine asking the question: does Serena Williams deserves sportsperson of the year more than a horse? [Kentucky Derby winner American Pharaoh is the horse in question.] As one of my friends protested: this is the same paper that made Citizen one of its books of the year. And, yes, Serena has seen what I wrote about her. I interviewed her for the New York Times in August. I took her willingness to be interviewed as a sign of approval.

“Because white men can’t/ police their imagination/ black men are dying.” What was in your mind when you wrote that line?
When white men are shooting black people, some of it is malice and some an out-of-control image of blackness in their minds. Darren Wilson told the jury that he shot Michael Brown because he looked “like a demon”. And I don’t disbelieve it. Blackness in the white imagination has nothing to do with black people.

Why is it so hard to call out racism?
Because making other people uncomfortable is thought worse than racism. It has taken me a while to train myself to speak out.

You make “situation videos” with your husband, John Lucas, using news stories, to illustrate your poems dynamically…
Yes – have you seen the recent video in Clinton correctional facility where guards refer to a black prisoner’s “non-compliant” body? He is non-compliant because he is dead.

You quote a friend of yours who said: “The condition of black life is one of mourning.” Do you agree?
Yes, I would agree, although black culture is also alive and vibrant.

You have a daughter – how do you arm her against racism?
It is important black parents are on guard against self-hatred, which gets communicated to children. We talk about racism but my daughter gets sick of it and rolls her eyes…

Citizen: An American Lyric by Claudia Rankine review – the ugly truth of racism
Claudia Rankine challenges the reader to question their own assumptions about race
Read more
You were born in Jamaica. Do you define yourself through it? Do you feel pride in being black? Or is that a racist question – I’d find it absurd if anyone asked me whether I have pride in being white…
It is not a question I would ask. It is like asking: do you feel a pride in being human? I am a black person, it has made me into the person I am. I grew up with Jamaican parents and came here when I was seven. My parents came to the US, as all immigrants do, for economic betterment. We lived in the Bronx. My parents worked as hospital orderlies. I know it’s not the image people have of the Bronx but we had a comfortable, regular working-class life.

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How did this lead to becoming a writer?
I went to Williams College, a fantastic liberal arts school. I started writing in my sophomore year after reading the poet Adrienne Rich and thinking: this is almost right but does not quite say what I want to say…

How often in your life in southern California does racism impinge on you?
I have had a privileged life in academia. But racism is inescapable, even among well-educated, questioning people.

You have mentioned walking in the mountains with your dog, Sammy. Is that your escape when you are not on the literary frontline?
I am considering walking in the mountains this afternoon, but don’t see it as an escape. Walking is slow, meditative.

You have talked about an incident at an airport where you were travelling with your husband, who is white. You were stopped and you said: “I am being racially profiled.” Why did they stop you?
You can’t know – but they stopped me. Then they said: “Go.” No explanation. When I said: “I’m being racially profiled”, the official asked: “Why are you saying that?” And he did look chagrined.

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Read more
In a New Yorker article you wrote: “There really is no mode of empathy that can replicate the daily strain of knowing that as a black person you can be killed simply for being black.” What is needed if empathy is useless?
I’m not saying that anything can be enough. Empathy is not a cure.

What’s the most surprising reaction to your book been so far?
The initial embrace of the book was surprising. You don’t know if two people will read it. And to have people come out in force… The most surprising thing has been the number of Asian women who have come up to me at book signings with tears in their eyes to say: this is my life you’re writing.

Citizen: An American Lyric is published by Penguin (£9.99). Click here to order a copy for £7.99

More interviews Topics

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/dec/27/claudia-rankine-poet-citizen-american-lyric-feature

by veya_victaous Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:43 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You just said they're all Australians. Make up your mind, and stop being so racist against the English. It's not their fault you're a bitter little man.

so you really Dont get it??

Did you just prove ALL my points 100% correct

you think they cant be Australian and Aboriginal?

RAGGS that is RACIST!!! super racist, neo nazi Ultra nationailst sort of racsim expressed right there.
I don't care how many of your fellow neo nazi think in that ultra racsit fashion you are Wrong very wrong.

Oooooooh, was it a "microaggression"?

Yay!

You said you support the legitimate killing of oppressors. Maybe the Aborigines should just kill you and then take all your money for the crimes you committed against them - all your benefit money that is.

If we behaved like the English do then Yes they most definitely should but we evolved into a better kinder more civilized peoples. We openly Apologize not only for our own crimes but for your too Raggs. we have made arrangements to repay for the crimes Previous Australians of British Decent caused (even if we are not of British Decent ourselves) and crimes of the British themselves even though 90% of the profits from those crimes have been sent to England.

And Everyone knows Aboriginal rights come into existence when Australia Gets out from under political control from England. The Major road block to aboriginal rights and reparations were British Lords, they took Australian Gov't to Court to try and Keep their Stolen lands and have not returned one penny of the profits they stole from the land. Although the Australian gov't has given the land itself back the aboriginals communities.

As the English have been so selfish in their unresonable and immoral attempt to keep the stolen good and wealth, it is moral to resort to violence, as the English have failed to meet the minimum a reasonable, moral and civilized nation would.

by Raggamuffin Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:46 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Oooooooh, was it a "microaggression"?

Yay!

You said you support the legitimate killing of oppressors. Maybe the Aborigines should just kill you and then take all your money for the crimes you committed against them - all your benefit money that is.

If we behaved like the English do then Yes they most definitely should but we evolved into a better kinder more civilized peoples. We openly Apologize not only for our own crimes but for your too Raggs. we have made arrangements to repay for the crimes Previous Australians of British Decent caused (even if we are not of British Decent ourselves) and crimes of the British themselves even though 90% of the profits from those crimes have been sent to England.

And Everyone knows Aboriginal rights come into existence when Australia Gets out from under political control from England. The Major road block to aboriginal rights and reparations were British Lords, they took Australian Gov't to Court to try and Keep their Stolen lands and have not returned one penny of the profits they stole from the land. Although the Australian gov't has given the land itself back the aboriginals communities.

As the English have been so selfish in their unresonable and immoral attempt to keep the stolen good and wealth, it is moral to resort to violence, as the English have failed to meet the minimum a reasonable, moral and civilized nation would.

You mean you're a bunch of suckers. Those Aborigines must be so thankful that non-Aboriginal Aussies are so full of self-hate, and that they're so stupid. Laughing

by veya_victaous Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:59 am

yeah raggs what ever
if you had a place in paradise you'd be willing to pay too and have no problem admitting it is not only fair, but cheap for citizenship of the most glorious bountiful nation.

New migrants have no issue paying reparations for the Brutal Crimes of the English that allowed 'modern Australia' to come into existence and be the forerunning Utopian society that it is today.

most people expect to get what they pay for! they don't expect to be allowed to steal from others without consequence like the English do.

by Raggamuffin Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:03 am

veya_victaous wrote:yeah raggs what ever
if you had a place in paradise you'd be willing to pay too and have no problem admitting it is not only fair, but cheap for citizenship of the most glorious bountiful nation.

New migrants have no issue paying reparations for the Brutal Crimes of the English that allowed 'modern Australia' to come into existence and be the forerunning Utopian society that it is today.

most people expect to get what they pay for! they don't expect to be allowed to steal from others without consequence like the English do.

So none of the people who went to Australia were English according to your logic?

Let's face it Veya - your father went to Australia to take advantage, and you also took advantage, so it's right that you should pay your benefit money over to the Aborigines. Of course you're bitter about that, but you just have to suck it up. Smile

by veya_victaous Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:34 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:yeah raggs what ever
if you had a place in paradise you'd be willing to pay too and have no problem admitting it is not only fair, but cheap for citizenship of the most glorious bountiful nation.

New migrants have no issue paying reparations for the Brutal Crimes of the English that allowed 'modern Australia' to come into existence and be the forerunning Utopian society that it is today.

most people expect to get what they pay for! they don't expect to be allowed to steal from others without consequence like the English do.

So none of the people who went to Australia were English according to your logic?

Let's face it Veya - your father went to Australia to take advantage, and you also took advantage, so it's right that you should pay your benefit money over to the Aborigines. Of course you're bitter about that, but you just have to suck it up.

you are a moron.. how does that mean no english people came here? It means they came here and grew a heart and some moral fibre BUT when it was just them stuff was pretty shit, it was the arrival of the other races that made Australia great.

my father was still a child when he came here with his parents after the Nazis blew up their town.
(like most of the original non British migrants that came after ww2 when Australians were freed by the USA from British politican oppression and able to choose they said we will take those that have lost their homes, my fathers family amougst them)
after staying with relatives for a few years they were given an offer to come to seek a better life in a nation that welcomes new migrants as it is not racist and wanted to strive to be a Utopian society that racist England could never be.

You Also seem to think Aboriginals are heartless people that would not accept refugees once understanding the hardship of the lands they come from. the Superior morality of the aboriginals, the kind more empathic and community focused mindset means they would never express the hate filled rhetoric coming out of the Uk towards those so unfortunate to become refugees.

by veya_victaous Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:41 am

reading the hate filled ignorance and Nazi like Attitudes of Ragg's post liek

Claudia Rankine: ‘Blackness in the white imagination has nothing to do with black people’ - Page 3 XgaCh4c

Claudia Rankine: ‘Blackness in the white imagination has nothing to do with black people’ - Page 3 XgaCh4c

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:52 am

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:like the other thread I would not wish British citizenship on my enemy.

and I Don't care enough about the IRA to Support them but I do generally support those that fight for freedom over oppression. To most of the world the IRA is like the Aceh rebels not doing damage to anything important enough to warrant seriously thinking about

The IRA did not fight in the end for freedom as they ended up butchering innocent people

If you think murdering innocent people is fighting for freedom, then you fail to understand what freedom is

The troubles were not ended by violence in Northern Ireland but by a peace process

Also the IRA did not respect the self determination of the Northern Irish#

That is also not fighting for freedom, but enforcing a view through violence, being fundamentally against democracy

By your views the Aborigines would have every right to slaughter all the colonialists and their descendants for the oppression they received under them and still do to this day

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:52 am

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

And Again MOST nations do not think that way.
Most nations Acknoweldge msot of the fault in the IRA/UK conflict lies with the UK.

it is only Nazi like Uber Rightwing nationalist like yourself that suggest the Uk had even the slightest right to be in Ireland at all.
it's not your country why do you have soliders there at all????

So you are now excusing violence and murder off self determination?

Yes you sound like a right Nazi, because the people of Northern Ireland voted to stay British

It matters not centuries ago, that Scottish traitors took up lands stolen by the English, as generations have passed, what matters now is the people living their determining their own future, which also does not undermine the minority of Catholics, though this is now near equivalent.

Sorry but your understanding of history is a joke, where by your own views on this you should leave Australia immediately and you are nothing more than an occupier to the lands of the Aboriginals

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:24 am

Didge wrote:
Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

And Again MOST nations do not think that way.
Most nations Acknoweldge msot of the fault in the IRA/UK conflict lies with the UK.

it is only Nazi like Uber Rightwing nationalist like yourself that suggest the Uk had even the slightest right to be in Ireland at all.
it's not your country why do you have soliders there at all????

So you are now excusing violence and murder off self determination?

Yes you sound like a right Nazi, because the people of Northern Ireland voted to stay British

It matters not centuries ago, that Scottish traitors took up lands stolen by the English, as generations have passed, what matters now is the people living their determining their own future, which also does not undermine the minority of Catholics, though this is now near equivalent.

Sorry but your understanding of history is a joke, where by your own views on this you should leave Australia immediately and you are nothing more than an occupier to the lands of the Aboriginals

I have to call out the Northern Ireland vote claim, which has been made here many times.

My question is, when was the vote held?

Was it held immediately after the English took over Ireland? Or was it held, say, many centuries after occupation began, when the people there had no living memory of the sovereign nation that the English conquered?

Would it be fair to take a vote on which lands belong to the Native Americans now? You think it might have gone differently in the 1600s?

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:29 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

I have to call out the Northern Ireland vote claim, which has been made here many times.

My question is, when was the vote held?

Was it held immediately after the English took over Ireland? Or was it held, say, many centuries after occupation began, when the people there had no living memory of the sovereign nation that the English conquered?

Would it be fair to take a vote on which lands belong to the Native Americans now? You think it might have gone differently in the 1600s?

Every time there was an election.

Are you telling me Sinn Fein was banned from elections?

Would it be fair to say you know fuck all about history?

If Northern Ireland did not want to be a part of the UK, they would have voted in the majority for parties that would have brought separation from the UK.

So would it be fair to say you are very stupid?

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:32 am

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

I have to call out the Northern Ireland vote claim, which has been made here many times.

My question is, when was the vote held?

Was it held immediately after the English took over Ireland? Or was it held, say, many centuries after occupation began, when the people there had no living memory of the sovereign nation that the English conquered?

Would it be fair to take a vote on which lands belong to the Native Americans now? You think it might have gone differently in the 1600s?

Every time there was an election.

Are you telling me Sinn Fein was banned from elections?

Would it be fair to say you know fuck all about history?

If Northern Ireland did not want to be a part of the UK, they would have voted in the majority for parties that would have brought separation from the UK.

So would it be fair to say you are very stupid?

Wow, I didn't know Sinn Fein existed all the way back in the late 1100s. I guess I must be very stupid.

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:36 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

Every time there was an election.

Are you telling me Sinn Fein was banned from elections?

Would it be fair to say you know fuck all about history?

If Northern Ireland did not want to be a part of the UK, they would have voted in the majority for parties that would have brought separation from the UK.

So would it be fair to say you are very stupid?

Wow, I didn't know Sinn Fein existed all the way back in the late 1100s. I guess I must be very stupid.

Yep very stupid

Considering Ireland was not even independent until the 20th century then it would be in regards to votes after this time.

So again why is it in the 20th century including today, they still vote in the majority for parties that do not want separation?

Again this is why you are not very bright

I of all people want a unified Ireland but respect the self determination of people

There is nothing worse than some yank with little connection to Ireland going off biased crap he learnt hating the Brits with Ireland jumping n making an even bigger dick of himself

by nicko Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:59 am

Did you put money in the collection boxes for "our brothers in Ireland"? Most yanks couldn't point out Ireland on the map!

by Raggamuffin Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:04 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

Every time there was an election.

Are you telling me Sinn Fein was banned from elections?

Would it be fair to say you know fuck all about history?

If Northern Ireland did not want to be a part of the UK, they would have voted in the majority for parties that would have brought separation from the UK.

So would it be fair to say you are very stupid?

Wow, I didn't know Sinn Fein existed all the way back in the late 1100s. I guess I must be very stupid.

Or pretty desperate. How far back do you want to go in order to blame Brits for everything? Are you seriously going to defend the IRA on the grounds that some Norman blokes were mean to some Irish blokes hundreds and hundreds of years ago?

by nicko Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:47 am

Ben, go on to utube music and play """ A British Soldiers Song" it might make you think twice about the IRA, veya and quill might have a listen as well!

by nicko Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:49 am

After you'v heard it let me know what you think.

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:30 pm

nicko wrote:Did you put money in the collection boxes for "our brothers in Ireland"? Most yanks couldn't point out Ireland on the map!

I love how all I have to do is point out historical facts and suddenly I'm a geographically challenged Yank who donates to the IRA.

by nicko Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:31 pm

Not know perhaps, but I bet you did.

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:31 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
nicko wrote:Did you put money in the collection boxes for "our brothers in Ireland"? Most yanks couldn't point out Ireland on the map!

I love how all I have to do is point out historical facts and suddenly I'm a geographically challenged Yank who donates to the IRA.

What historical facts?

Sorry you did not post any facts, where you tries to deny the people of Northern Ireland never had any self determination
They did through elections

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:34 pm

nicko wrote:Ben, go on to utube music and play """ A British Soldiers Song" it might make you think twice about the IRA, veya and quill might have a listen as well!

Had a bit of a hard time finding that one, chappy-o -- was it this one?

by Raggamuffin Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:36 pm

Don't be so nasty Ben. It is really quite awful that you and Veya support such violence against British citizens, and now you're taking the piss out of Nicko. He has encountered the IRA himself, and he helped to protect the British public against those vile murderers.

by nicko Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:37 pm

Sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:40 pm

nicko wrote:Not know perhaps, but I bet you did.

Do the math, nicko. I'm 41. When the IRA ceasefire was signed I was in college, working at a video store so I'd have money for movies and concerts. I wasn't donating money to anybody.

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:40 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Don't be so nasty Ben. It is really quite awful that you and Veya support such violence against British citizens, and now you're taking the piss out of Nicko. He has encountered the IRA himself, and he helped to protect the British public against those vile murderers.

How was I being nasty?

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:42 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Don't be so nasty Ben. It is really quite awful that you and Veya support such violence against British citizens, and now you're taking the piss out of Nicko. He has encountered the IRA himself, and he helped to protect the British public against those vile murderers.

How was I being nasty?

Well considering you are 4th generation Irish American, no doubt by your views think supported the cause of the IRA being also blatantly ignorant of the conflict and you posting a video of Army boys dancing in their underpants as if to mock them

I would say you blatantly expose yourself

Did he ask you to look at that video or another to gauge what he was talking about

Instead you chose to take the piss out of him

by nicko Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:45 pm

Ben, so you were a Student in college, that explains a lot.

by Raggamuffin Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:45 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Don't be so nasty Ben. It is really quite awful that you and Veya support such violence against British citizens, and now you're taking the piss out of Nicko. He has encountered the IRA himself, and he helped to protect the British public against those vile murderers.

How was I being nasty?

Come on - it's easy enough to find the track he was referring to.

Tbh, I wouldn't encourage you to listen to it - it will not make you change your mind, and it would probably encourage you to say something quite offensive.

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:47 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Don't be so nasty Ben. It is really quite awful that you and Veya support such violence against British citizens, and now you're taking the piss out of Nicko. He has encountered the IRA himself, and he helped to protect the British public against those vile murderers.

How was I being nasty?

Well considering you are 4th generation Irish American, no doubt by your views think supported the cause of the IRA being also blatantly ignorant of the conflict and you posting a video of Army boys dancing in their underpants as if to mock them

I would say you blatantly expose yourself

Did he ask you to look at that video or another to gauge what he was talking about

Instead you chose to take the piss out of him

Pretty sure those honorable servants of the queen shot that themselves ...

Anyway, youtube is full of stuff like this. Your boys really seem to enjoy filming themselves cavorting near-nude ...

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:47 pm

nicko wrote:Ben, so you were a Student in college, that explains a lot.

It explains that I was trying to get an education?

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:48 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

Well considering you are 4th generation Irish American, no doubt by your views think supported the cause of the IRA being also blatantly ignorant of the conflict and you posting a video of Army boys dancing in their underpants as if to mock them

I would say you blatantly expose yourself

Did he ask you to look at that video or another to gauge what he was talking about

Instead you chose to take the piss out of him

Pretty sure those honorable servants of the queen shot that themselves ...

Anyway, youtube is full of stuff like this. Your boys really seem to enjoy filming themselves cavorting near-nude ...

So again instead of respecting the poster who asked you to look at the video, you further expose what a vile person you are having no understanding at all how this might be upsetting to some posters in regards to the IRA

One myself having two uncles murdered by them

Like I said before, you are low life scum

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:58 pm

I looked up the song and liked it, actually. I'm thinking about updating it so that it's about a poor American soldier in Iraq, circa 2005, who just wants to kill Iraqi teenagers without getting rocks thrown at him.

by Raggamuffin Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:00 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I looked up the song and liked it, actually. I'm thinking about updating it so that it's about a poor American soldier in Iraq, circa 2005, who just wants to kill Iraqi teenagers without getting rocks thrown at him.

See? I knew you'd say something offensive.

I don't think you have any real idea about NI, the UK, and the IRA, and if you do know how offensive your support of the IRA is to some British people, well you're really not a very nice person because you seem to enjoy baiting them about it.

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:00 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I looked up the song and liked it, actually. I'm thinking about updating it so that it's about a poor American soldier in Iraq, circa 2005, who just wants to kill Iraqi teenagers without getting rocks thrown at him.

Ignorance at its best

Again American and allied soldiers died in Iraq and you make fun of that

What kind of sick individual are you?

Did you have to go there?

Many fight for their nation not because of the reasons of the conflict but a love for their country

Seriously its twats like you that need a good slap

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:09 pm

Yes, yes, let's by all means just have the whitewashed versions of our soldiers' endeavors, and not look at the fact that atrocities were committed.

I'm sorry. Ireland had no right to want to keep its own country, especially not with England right there across the sea and wanting it for itself. That's just rude.

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:12 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Yes, yes, let's by all means just have the whitewashed versions of our soldiers' endeavors, and not look at the fact that atrocities were committed.

I'm sorry. Ireland had no right to want to keep its own country, especially not with England right there across the sea and wanting it for itself. That's just rude.

Atrocities?

Wow, so the vast majority that did their service and committed no atrocities you center on also as well as dishing those that dies

Some patriot you are, more like a wet regressive fucking twat

Again nobody is denying the wrongs done by people long ago which also effected my ancestors being he fact they were Irish, but the IRA set out to murder innocent people because they would not accept the self determination of the Northern Irish. I speak of the last 5-6 decades not centuries you ignorant fucking twat

You sit back in Texas continuing not to have a fucking clue, as you seem to be an expert

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:13 pm

Here maybe this will help

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:15 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Yes, yes, let's by all means just have the whitewashed versions of our soldiers' endeavors, and not look at the fact that atrocities were committed.

I'm sorry. Ireland had no right to want to keep its own country, especially not with England right there across the sea and wanting it for itself. That's just rude.

Atrocities?

Wow, so the vast majority that did their service and committed no atrocities you center on also as well as dishing those that dies

Some patriot you are, more like a wet regressive fucking twat

Again nobody is denying the wrongs done by people long ago which also effected my ancestors being he fact they were Irish, but the IRA set out to murder innocent people because they would not accept the self determination of the Northern Irish. I speak of the last 5-6 decades not centuries you ignorant fucking twat

You sit back in Texas continuing not to have a fucking clue, as you seem to be an expert

I am indeed an expert in sitting back in Texas. Ask me anything!

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:16 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

Atrocities?

Wow, so the vast majority that did their service and committed no atrocities you center on also as well as dishing those that dies

Some patriot you are, more like a wet regressive fucking twat

Again nobody is denying the wrongs done by people long ago which also effected my ancestors being he fact they were Irish, but the IRA set out to murder innocent people because they would not accept the self determination of the Northern Irish. I speak of the last 5-6 decades not centuries you ignorant fucking twat

You sit back in Texas continuing not to have a fucking clue, as you seem to be an expert

I am indeed an expert in sitting back in Texas. Ask me anything!

Have you ever tried to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger to see if you can hit your brains?

Its a small target I know, but just interested

by Raggamuffin Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:16 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Yes, yes, let's by all means just have the whitewashed versions of our soldiers' endeavors, and not look at the fact that atrocities were committed.

I'm sorry. Ireland had no right to want to keep its own country, especially not with England right there across the sea and wanting it for itself. That's just rude.

Listen up and try to pay attention. NI remained part of the UK because that's what the majority there wanted. A minority decided they were going to get their own way by violence, and they carried out terrorist attacks in NI and in Britain. They planted bombs in pubs, shopping centres, parks, and then they ran away like the cowardly bastards they are.

If NI wanted to leave, it would be different, but they don't. If they want to leave in the future, that's fine by me. I will not let you sit here and defend those murderers without replying because you are openly defending terrorists and murderers, and you are taking great pleasure in doing so, including mocking someone who protected the Brits against those terrorists.

All your efforts to appear like the "good guy" are completely wasted because you are maliciously supporting the IRA because you get annoyed with the Brits on here.

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:20 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

Atrocities?

Wow, so the vast majority that did their service and committed no atrocities you center on also as well as dishing those that dies

Some patriot you are, more like a wet regressive fucking twat

Again nobody is denying the wrongs done by people long ago which also effected my ancestors being he fact they were Irish, but the IRA set out to murder innocent people because they would not accept the self determination of the Northern Irish. I speak of the last 5-6 decades not centuries you ignorant fucking twat

You sit back in Texas continuing not to have a fucking clue, as you seem to be an expert

I am indeed an expert in sitting back in Texas. Ask me anything!

Have you ever tried to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger to see if you can hit your brains?

Its a small target I know, but just interested

Whoa, that's going a bit overboard, Didge.

Claudia Rankine: ‘Blackness in the white imagination has nothing to do with black people’ - Page 3 57840158

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:20 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

Have you ever tried to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger to see if you can hit your brains?

Its a small target I know, but just interested

Whoa, that's going a bit overboard, Didge.

Well I was under the impression you would no doubt miss, being as the target was too small

Razz

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:21 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Yes, yes, let's by all means just have the whitewashed versions of our soldiers' endeavors, and not look at the fact that atrocities were committed.

I'm sorry. Ireland had no right to want to keep its own country, especially not with England right there across the sea and wanting it for itself. That's just rude.

Listen up and try to pay attention. NI remained part of the UK because that's what the majority there wanted. A minority decided they were going to get their own way by violence, and they carried out terrorist attacks in NI and in Britain. They planted bombs in pubs, shopping centres, parks, and then they ran away like the cowardly bastards they are.

If NI wanted to leave, it would be different, but they don't. If they want to leave in the future, that's fine by me. I will not let you sit here and defend those murderers without replying because you are openly defending terrorists and murderers, and you are taking great pleasure in doing so, including mocking someone who protected the Brits against those terrorists.

All your efforts to appear like the "good guy" are completely wasted because you are maliciously supporting the IRA because you get annoyed with the Brits on here.

I have heard all this before. My point remains -- it's one thing to poll the Northern Irish after centuries of occupation. It would have been entirely different if generations hadn't gotten used to it.

Again, I don't condone violence.

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:22 pm

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

Have you ever tried to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger to see if you can hit your brains?

Its a small target I know, but just interested

Whoa, that's going a bit overboard, Didge.

Well I was under the impression you would no doubt miss, being as the target was too small

Maybe, but I'd not deface this natural beauty for all the oil in Houston ...

by Raggamuffin Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Listen up and try to pay attention. NI remained part of the UK because that's what the majority there wanted. A minority decided they were going to get their own way by violence, and they carried out terrorist attacks in NI and in Britain. They planted bombs in pubs, shopping centres, parks, and then they ran away like the cowardly bastards they are.

If NI wanted to leave, it would be different, but they don't. If they want to leave in the future, that's fine by me. I will not let you sit here and defend those murderers without replying because you are openly defending terrorists and murderers, and you are taking great pleasure in doing so, including mocking someone who protected the Brits against those terrorists.

All your efforts to appear like the "good guy" are completely wasted because you are maliciously supporting the IRA because you get annoyed with the Brits on here.

I have heard all this before. My point remains -- it's one thing to poll the Northern Irish after centuries of occupation. It would have been entirely different if generations hadn't gotten used to it.

Again, I don't condone violence.

It doesn't matter - what matters is what the people there want now - not what different people wanted hundreds of years ago.

You do condone the IRA violence, you defend them every time you mention them, and you've never said a word to condemn them. Well that's up to you, and no doubt some Brits on here think the same thing, but some do not, and you are grossly offensive to those people.

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:24 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Listen up and try to pay attention. NI remained part of the UK because that's what the majority there wanted. A minority decided they were going to get their own way by violence, and they carried out terrorist attacks in NI and in Britain. They planted bombs in pubs, shopping centres, parks, and then they ran away like the cowardly bastards they are.

If NI wanted to leave, it would be different, but they don't. If they want to leave in the future, that's fine by me. I will not let you sit here and defend those murderers without replying because you are openly defending terrorists and murderers, and you are taking great pleasure in doing so, including mocking someone who protected the Brits against those terrorists.

All your efforts to appear like the "good guy" are completely wasted because you are maliciously supporting the IRA because you get annoyed with the Brits on here.

I have heard all this before. My point remains -- it's one thing to poll the Northern Irish after centuries of occupation. It would have been entirely different if generations hadn't gotten used to it.

Again, I don't condone violence.

Such stupidity on history

Again even if you had gone back centuries the North was far more Protestant, as the area had been ethnically cleansed

Again this is about the IRA atrocities where they went against the self determination of the Northern Irish

Those people today are innocent of any crime their ancestors did

Can you not get that into that small brain of yours?

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:25 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

Well I was under the impression you would no doubt miss, being as the target was too small

Maybe, but I'd not deface this natural beauty for all the oil in Houston ...

Well it might make you more acceptable looks wise to Texan society

by nicko Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:26 pm

I tink Ben looked up the wrong song, this actually happened to a Sargent in the para's, a grenade was thrown into a Police Station where a dozen or so men,women and children there. The Soldier had a split second to decide what to do, he threw him self on the grenade and died in the blast. The song was banned by the Army as being bad for morale.

by Raggamuffin Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:27 pm

nicko wrote:I tink Ben looked up the wrong song, this actually happened to a Sargent in the para's, a grenade was thrown into a Police Station where a dozen or so men,women and children there. The Soldier had a split second to decide what to do, he threw him self on the grenade and died in the blast. The song was banned by the Army as being bad for morale.

He looked up the wrong song on purpose nicko.

by Guest Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:28 pm

nicko wrote:I tink Ben looked up the wrong song, this actually happened to a Sargent in the para's, a grenade was thrown into a Police Station where a dozen or so men,women and children there. The Soldier had a split second to decide what to do, he threw him self on the grenade and died in the blast. The song was banned by the Army as being bad for morale.

He had no intention of watching it and instead used this to insult as a cue to be vile by mocking the dead and fallen

by HoratioTarr Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:30 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Anyone would think Australia had no history of racism and bigotry. Doesn't the majority of Australian lineage hail from Britain, pre World Wars 1 and 2?

Again Another great point HT
Until we where truely freed from Britsh Oppresion by the USA in WW2, Australia was Ultra Racsit like it's British lineage would imply.

it is only post ww2 that large number of non Brits (but still white europeans) arrived and then in the 60's once the British poopulation had become Multicultral european they lifted the white australia policy. Since then our popualtion has doubled with very large numbers of Asians and Indians.

Yes, and so it is here in the UK.

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