Apology

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

I have over the last couple of days behaved like a total cow to everyone in general and some in particular. I would like to apologize. I have been off my pain meds as I thought I was able to cope - I was wrong, I was blocking pain mentally instead which leaves me in a foul temper, Again I apologize.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:50 pm

feelthelove wrote:
Sassy wrote:

Exactly, nobody has the right to tell anyone if they can cope or not, and it takes great resources to cope and drains you. If they can't, we don't have the right to tell them they must.

....and it doesn't make you any lesser a person either Sassy, simply their pain may be greater than others. I don't believe it's about strength of character or great resources tbh

Of course you don't. I think you will find that stomach operations are just about the most painful you can have, and it does take resources to deal with pain, you have to dig inside yourself and find the strength, and nobody says it's easy.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:01 pm

NemsAgain wrote:
sphinx wrote:

It seems to be stable at the moment. I have found after a dodgy start the ESA advisor is very helpful and useful and seems to accept my limitations. My management has got better but there are still occasions when I get it wrong

Tell me you are in the support group

Good grief no - I am not totally decrepit lol.

I have never for a second ever dropped the intention to get back to being financially self supporting if possible - or at least partially supporting anyway. I am just desperate for the switch over to universal credit because it means I can take part time work without having to worry about increasing hours beyond what I can do - at the moment the system supports into part time work but you have 12 months to increase to over 16 hours or stop working again.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:02 pm

Sassy wrote:
feelthelove wrote:

....and it doesn't make you any lesser a person either Sassy, simply their pain may be greater than others. I don't believe it's about strength of character or great resources tbh

Of course you don't. I think you will find that stomach operations are just about the most painful you can have, and it does take resources to deal with pain, you have to dig inside yourself and find the strength, and nobody says it's easy.

Neither did I, I just don't think that people who are able to cope with their level of pain should insinuate that others are weaker who have similar circumstances and are not. Pain is experienced differently by each of us Sad

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:04 pm

Ffs sake guys, sass has to put up with more chemo etc to go through, please stop this,it's escalating into something it should not,the woman has already been through more than most can tolerate,

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:06 pm

sphinx wrote:
NemsAgain wrote:

Tell me you are in the support group

Good grief no - I am not totally decrepit lol.

I have never for a second ever dropped the intention to get back to being financially self supporting if possible - or at least partially supporting anyway. I am just desperate for the switch over to universal credit because it means I can take part time work without having to worry about increasing hours beyond what I can do - at the moment the system supports into part time work but you have 12 months to increase to over 16 hours or stop working again.

When is that coming out?

by Original Quill Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:17 pm

You are among friends, sphinx. Nice part about that is you don't have to say you are sorry.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:17 pm

Joy Division wrote:Sphinx...addictive ness and dependency often end in the same result...

Amd btw, I'm not saying your lying ok, as insinuated I did, like I said, I've a few conditions of my own , and I know what pain can feel like.

Just drop the cheap shots and digs, ok.

That was not a cheap shot and I was not meaning you saying I was lying. It was a wry observation that everyone with a chronic pain condition will at some time or another have another person tell them that there is no way their pain can be as bad as they say because "it would be impossible to do what you do if it was that bad". I am sure you have had this - possibly disguised as the "I dont know how you manage" comment. Sorry my statement was another case of the written word not having the emphasis of the spoken one.

The only time addictiveness and dependency result in similar results is the sudden withdrawal of the substance - and those results are similar only temporarily. The addict will be worse taking the substance, acute after stopping it, then improve without it. The dependent will be better taking the substance, acute after stopping it, and get worse without it. This is a distinction that many doctors are unaware of and which specialist pain doctors fight against because too many doctors limit pain medication to chronic pain patients because of fears of addiction failing to realize that the chronic pain patient is actually better and more able to function as what the doctor considers an addict. Specialist pain doctors work carefully with patients and will prescribe higher doses more freely to achieve maximum function so long as the patient understands what is going on.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:24 pm

NemsAgain wrote:
sphinx wrote:

Good grief no - I am not totally decrepit lol.

I have never for a second ever dropped the intention to get back to being financially self supporting if possible - or at least partially supporting anyway. I am just desperate for the switch over to universal credit because it means I can take part time work without having to worry about increasing hours beyond what I can do - at the moment the system supports into part time work but you have 12 months to increase to over 16 hours or stop working again.

When is that coming out?

I wish I knew for certain. I have been left so angry by the number of claimant advocate groups who have done nothing but concentrate on worst case scenarios and acted to block progress at every opportunity rather than looking at it as a whole and saying OK it has potential but this area needs work and helping with those areas. Time and time again they talk about how "poor sick/disabled/unemployed" will be at risk of eviction because they will have to pay their rent themselves and not have it done for them - well sorry but every working person whether they are sick or disabled has to manage this and they dont have problems. The actual numbers of people with genuine learning disabilities that will have a problem are small and the advocates should be working on ways to make sure that group is supported rather than trying to stop the whole thing because of it.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:You are among friends, sphinx. Nice part about that is you don't have to say you are sorry.

Thanks quill - where I respect people I apologise because I got things wrong.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:30 pm

sphinx wrote:
NemsAgain wrote:

When is that coming out?

I wish I knew for certain. I have been left so angry by the number of claimant advocate groups who have done nothing but concentrate on worst case scenarios and acted to block progress at every opportunity rather than looking at it as a whole and saying OK it has potential but this area needs work and helping with those areas. Time and time again they talk about how "poor sick/disabled/unemployed" will be at risk of eviction because they will have to pay their rent themselves and not have it done for them - well sorry but every working person whether they are sick or disabled has to manage this and they dont have problems. The actual numbers of people with genuine learning disabilities that will have a problem are small and the advocates should be working on ways to make sure that group is supported rather than trying to stop the whole thing because of it.

I know the charities all think its going to cause major problems

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:33 pm

feelthelove wrote:
Sassy wrote:

Of course you don't. I think you will find that stomach operations are just about the most painful you can have, and it does take resources to deal with pain, you have to dig inside yourself and find the strength, and nobody says it's easy.

Neither did I, I just don't think that people who are able to cope with their level of pain should insinuate that others are weaker who have similar circumstances and are not. Pain is experienced differently by each of us

Where did I say they were weaker, or judge them, and considering my daughter killed herself because she couldn't cope after being in pain for 24 years, I'm not likely to am I?

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:39 pm

This thread has ran it's course.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:46 pm

Joy Division wrote:This thread has ran it's course.

Sometimes Joy, you just run out of the resources that kept you going for so long. When that happens, no-one has the right to tell you what you should do about it.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:47 pm

I

Sassy wrote:
Joy Division wrote:This thread has ran it's course.

Sometimes Joy, you just run out of the resources that kept you going for so long. When that happens, no-one has the right to tell you what you should do about it.

I agree sassy,sadly some others do not realise this.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:51 pm

Forgive me JD but you dont know what I have been through or am going through at the moment
same as FTL just because we dont post our private lives doesnt mean we havent both had major traumas and illnesses.
We all have things to cope with

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:52 pm

Sassy wrote:
Joy Division wrote:This thread has ran it's course.

Sometimes Joy, you just run out of the resources that kept you going for so long. When that happens, no-one has the right to tell you what you should do about it.

Absolutely agree Apology - Page 2 Thumbs73

People's resources and their ability to cope with levels of pain and suffering differs, so many factors. No one has the right to judge, to tell that person what they think or feel, what they should be able to cope with; mentally or physically.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:55 pm

NemsAgain wrote:
sphinx wrote:

I wish I knew for certain. I have been left so angry by the number of claimant advocate groups who have done nothing but concentrate on worst case scenarios and acted to block progress at every opportunity rather than looking at it as a whole and saying OK it has potential but this area needs work and helping with those areas. Time and time again they talk about how "poor sick/disabled/unemployed" will be at risk of eviction because they will have to pay their rent themselves and not have it done for them - well sorry but every working person whether they are sick or disabled has to manage this and they dont have problems. The actual numbers of people with genuine learning disabilities that will have a problem are small and the advocates should be working on ways to make sure that group is supported rather than trying to stop the whole thing because of it.

I know the charities all think its going to cause major problems

I do not deny that there are going to be issues because people are going to take the money given to them for rent and spend it on things other than rent. Where I disagree with the charities is in them thinking it is not going to be these peoples fault when they get evicted.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:57 pm

sphinx wrote:
NemsAgain wrote:

I know the charities all think its going to cause major problems

I do not deny that there are going to be issues because people are going to take the money given to them for rent and spend it on things other than rent. Where I disagree with the charities is in them thinking it is not going to be these peoples fault when they get evicted.

Its going to be a mare

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:02 pm

NemsAgain wrote:
sphinx wrote:

I do not deny that there are going to be issues because people are going to take the money given to them for rent and spend it on things other than rent. Where I disagree with the charities is in them thinking it is not going to be these peoples fault when they get evicted.

Its going to be a mare

It all comes back to the issue of how far should people be protected from the consequences of their own actions. If a person takes the money given to them for rent and doesn't use it for rent should they be protected from being evicted?

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:04 pm

sphinx wrote:
NemsAgain wrote:

Its going to be a mare

It all comes back to the issue of how far should people be protected from the consequences of their own actions. If a person takes the money given to them for rent and doesn't use it for rent should they be protected from being evicted?

It shouldnt but I dont understand why they want to do it this way, especially knowing the chaos when benefits went to two weekly

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:05 pm

sphinx wrote:
NemsAgain wrote:

I know the charities all think its going to cause major problems

I do not deny that there are going to be issues because people are going to take the money given to them for rent and spend it on things other than rent. Where I disagree with the charities is in them thinking it is not going to be these peoples fault when they get evicted.

You do realize that when Universal Credit is brought in it will be £70 a week don't you + your rent etc...

You do realize that by the time they manage to bring that shambles in, and they've already wasted millions on a computer system that has now been shelved that Universal Credit means Universal Credit...There won't be any top ups for being disabled etc don't you?

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

As one ATOS monkey told Doug and i one time...It will all be bread and water in the end.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:12 pm

I don't think Universal Credit will ever be brought in now tbf..It will probably be shelved completely when Labour win the next election! cheers

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:27 pm

NemsAgain wrote:
sphinx wrote:

It all comes back to the issue of how far should people be protected from the consequences of their own actions. If a person takes the money given to them for rent and doesn't use it for rent should they be protected from being evicted?

It shouldnt but I dont understand why they want to do it this way, especially knowing the chaos when benefits went to two weekly

They want to do it this way because in the long run it means benefits cost less while people receive more money and it is much much easier for people to move into work.

At the moment a person out of work has to claim at least 3 different benefits needing 3 different lots of people to process them, and they are paid on a different routine from people working, and have their rent paid direct without them doing anything. That means that for the long term unemployed getting a job means routine change and responsibility change at home as well as the actual job which makes it look even more daunting - people feel safe having their rent paid and worry about being able to cope. With Universal Credit its one benefit needing one team of people to process so it costs less and because people are paid in a similar routine to working and have to pay their own rent they are used to these things and moving into work does not mean such big changes at home - and because they are used to paying their rent they know they can cope and have more belief in themselves.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:29 pm

Catman wrote:I don't think Universal Credit will ever be brought in now tbf..It will probably be shelved completely when Labour win the next election!

|But why is that a good thing Phil? Why is it better to have to claim multiple different benefits? To have so much of the benefits budget spent on the wages of the people delivering not going to the people receiving it?

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:32 pm

Do you have the figures as to what it will cost to run the PIP system Sphinx...

Even the government won't be bang on to the penny.

So we should not make statements of things that are not in full operation yet.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:33 pm

sphinx wrote:
Catman wrote:I don't think Universal Credit will ever be brought in now tbf..It will probably be shelved completely when Labour win the next election!

|But why is that a good thing Phil? Why is it better to have to claim multiple different benefits? To have so much of the benefits budget spent on the wages of the people delivering not going to the people receiving it?

Because some people need a top up on their benefits...For instance if they are disabled, really ill and in the WRAC or support group they are currently awarded extra money to help to manage their special needs etc...So you need different benefits and not UC you see!

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:34 pm

NemsAgain wrote:Forgive me JD but you dont know what I have been through or am going through at the moment
same as FTL just because we dont post our private lives doesnt mean we havent both had major traumas and illnesses.
We all have things to cope with

..indeed Nems, I do not mean that, I was only highlighting serious and now cases, I don't doubt you in any way..and am sorry of you took it to be something else.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:39 pm

Joy Division wrote:Do you have the figures as to what it will cost to run the PIP system Sphinx...

Even the government won't be bang on to the penny.

So we should not make statements of things that are not in full operation yet.

Uh where did PIP come from JD? I was talking about universal credit replacing living cost benefits not PIP replacing DLA which is a totally different kettle of fish.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:43 pm

Catman wrote:
sphinx wrote:

|But why is that a good thing Phil? Why is it better to have to claim multiple different benefits? To have so much of the benefits budget spent on the wages of the people delivering not going to the people receiving it?

Because some people need a top up on their benefits...For instance if they are disabled, really ill and in the WRAC or support group they are currently awarded extra money to help to manage their special needs etc...So you need different benefits and not UC you see!

You are aware you get the extra money on universal credit arent you? It is made up of building blocks - everyone gets the central unemployment rent council tax blocs then they add blocs for sick, disabled, children, disabled children etc.

Visit http://policyinpractice.co.uk/universal-credit-calculator/ and run a through different scenarios through and you will see what I mean.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:50 pm

...Same thing,,, a con, Vicar.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:56 pm

Joy Division wrote:...Same thing,,, a con, Vicar.

Exactly!

The building blocks will all be removed eventually, as they are now being removed one by one. pale

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:00 pm

So your opposition to this benefit that increases how much people get (use the calculator if you dont believe me) is based up speculation that at some point in the future it will become less?

How about trying this idea - Universal credit managed by a labour government - would a labour government remove the building blocs or make them bigger?

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:05 pm

sphinx wrote:So your opposition to this benefit that increases how much people get (use the calculator if you dont believe me) is based up speculation that at some point in the future it will become less?

How about trying this idea - Universal credit managed by a labour government - would a labour government remove the building blocs or make them bigger?

It's a pointless debate anyway because UC will never be brought in now anyway.

If you look at the thread that i posted in the Europe news section, many ministers aren't in favour of it and it will be Labour (who are most against it) who will be calling the shots after the next election! :D

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:13 pm

So you are happy for benefits to stay in a mess, cost excessive amounts of wages, be confusing for claimants and act against them escaping from them just so as Labour is in charge?

I thought you cared for "poor" people? What the hell does it matter whose idea something is, who is in charge of implementing it, if it improves peoples lives?

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:20 pm

sphinx wrote:So you are happy for benefits to stay in a mess, cost excessive amounts of wages, be confusing for claimants and act against them escaping from them just so as Labour is in charge?

I thought you cared for "poor" people? What the hell does it matter whose idea something is, who is in charge of implementing it, if it improves peoples lives?

The benefits system was never in a mess..The delays in delivering benefits, sanctions etc were introduced under this coalition..Everything was working perfectly fine before!

It's IDS and his cronies undermining the present system to make his flawed system seem more attractive! Twisted Evil

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:27 pm

Catman wrote:
sphinx wrote:So you are happy for benefits to stay in a mess, cost excessive amounts of wages, be confusing for claimants and act against them escaping from them just so as Labour is in charge?

I thought you cared for "poor" people? What the hell does it matter whose idea something is, who is in charge of implementing it, if it improves peoples lives?

The benefits system was never in a mess..The delays in delivering benefits, sanctions etc were introduced under this coalition..Everything was working perfectly fine before!

It's IDS and his cronies undermining the present system to make his flawed system seem more attractive!

You do live in your own little world dont you?

Check the history books genius and you discover that ESA and the WCA was engineered and introduced under and by the last Labour government - so unless you think we really are living in Orwells 1984 with the dates in history books being changed the whole time things were most definitely not working fine under the last government.

From a person perspective it was an ATOS dick that screwed up my claim in 2006 managing to decide my weekly activities were daily ones and I am 99.9999% certain there was a Labour government in power at the time - although it was Incapacity benefit introduced by the pesky Conservative government so maybe that explains it.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:34 pm

sphinx wrote:
Catman wrote:

The benefits system was never in a mess..The delays in delivering benefits, sanctions etc were introduced under this coalition..Everything was working perfectly fine before!

It's IDS and his cronies undermining the present system to make his flawed system seem more attractive!

You do live in your own little world dont you?

Check the history books genius and you discover that ESA and the WCA was engineered and introduced under and by the last Labour government - so unless you think we really are living in Orwells 1984 with the dates in history books being changed the whole time things were most definitely not working fine under the last government.

From a person perspective it was an ATOS dick that screwed up my claim in 2006 managing to decide my weekly activities were daily ones and I am 99.9999% certain there was a Labour government in power at the time - although it was Incapacity benefit introduced by the pesky Conservative government so maybe that explains it.

I don't live in my own little world when i say that the delivery of benefits was working fine under Labour..No delays in the delivery, no sanctions, the crisis loan system, community care grants etc!

Everything started to go to pot once IDS got his grubby little hands on the DWP!

I know what i'm talking about because unfortunately at this time Doug and i are having to live under the present fucking nightmare.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:35 pm

Catman wrote:
sphinx wrote:

You do live in your own little world dont you?

Check the history books genius and you discover that ESA and the WCA was engineered and introduced under and by the last Labour government - so unless you think we really are living in Orwells 1984 with the dates in history books being changed the whole time things were most definitely not working fine under the last government.

From a person perspective it was an ATOS dick that screwed up my claim in 2006 managing to decide my weekly activities were daily ones and I am 99.9999% certain there was a Labour government in power at the time - although it was Incapacity benefit introduced by the pesky Conservative government so maybe that explains it.

I don't live in my own little world when i say that the delivery of benefits was working fine under Labour..No delays in the delivery, no sanctions, the crisis loan system, community care grants etc!

Everything started to go to pot once IDS got his grubby little hands on the DWP!

I know what i'm talking about because unfortunately at this time Doug and i are having to live under the present fucking nightmare.

Do you deny that ESA and the WCA were bought in under Labour?

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:39 pm

sphinx wrote:
Catman wrote:

I don't live in my own little world when i say that the delivery of benefits was working fine under Labour..No delays in the delivery, no sanctions, the crisis loan system, community care grants etc!

Everything started to go to pot once IDS got his grubby little hands on the DWP!

I know what i'm talking about because unfortunately at this time Doug and i are having to live under the present fucking nightmare.

Do you deny that ESA and the WCA were bought in under Labour?

They were but have since been tinkered with under the present administration. Rolling Eyes

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:42 pm

Doug has to go to ATOS again in Jan.

I swear that i'm going to put a bit of duct tape over my mouth.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:43 pm

Catman wrote:
sphinx wrote:

Do you deny that ESA and the WCA were bought in under Labour?

They were but have since been tinkered with under the present administration.

Yeah they have been forced to slacken off the WCA rules once already - from the ones Labour bought in.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:54 pm

sphinx wrote:
Catman wrote:

They were but have since been tinkered with under the present administration.

Yeah they have been forced to slacken off the WCA rules once already - from the ones Labour bought in.

IDS has brought in more targets to be met etc before the private company ATOS get's paid, also for the job centre workers, they are more like little Hitlers now that have to reach their sanction targets, when they were never had to do that before and were much more friendlier.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:57 pm

Dont worry phil we all get it -as far as you are concerned Labour are the perfect fairy godmother who can do no wrong and Torys are 100% evil and can do no right. If you have to hold such a beliefs for your own peace of mind and to be able to function you get on with it - the rest of us will deal with reality.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:57 pm

I kid you not that some of the advisers hum 'If you go down to the woods today, your sure to get a big surprise'

Heard them do that myself...Or rather the one sitting next to the adviser that is giving the interrogation.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:58 pm

And yet Universal Credit has been reported 'Not fit for purpose'

Up to half a million [i] disabled people and their families - including children and disabled adults living on their own - will be worse off under Universal Credit if current plans go ahead, finds an inquiry led by Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson and supported by The Children’s Society, Citizens Advice and Disability Rights UK.

Disabled people and their families warned that cuts to the child disability additions and to the Severe Disability Premium are likely to result in them struggling to pay for basic essentials such as food and heating.

Many disabled people who are already finding it difficult to make ends meet face further hardship under the new benefit system, leading to potentially disastrous consequences.

This includes up to 230,000 severely disabled people who do not have another adult to assist them getting between £28 and £58 less in support every week. The inquiry report, ‘Holes in the safety net: The impact of Universal Credit on disabled people and their families’ also reveals that:

100,000 disabled children stand to lose up to £28 a week.
116,000 disabled people who work will be at risk of losing up to £40 per week from help towards additional costs of being disabled.

One in ten families with disabled children affected by the changes feared losing their homes. 83% of disabled adults living alone or with a young carer said they would cut back on food and 80% said they would cut back on the amount they spend on heating. The findings also point to a greatly increased burden on young carers as a result of the changes to the Severe Disability Premium.

Despite the intention of Universal Credit to make work pay, evidence in the inquiry shows that the changes could make it harder for disabled people to remain in work.

The report makes key recommendations, including protecting children on the middle-rate care component of Disability Living Allowance. It also recommends disability support in Universal Credit should be provided to disabled people who are found to be fully fit for work but are at significant disadvantage in the workplace.

Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson says:

“The findings of this report do not make easy reading. The clear message is that many households with disabled people are already struggling to keep their heads above water.

“Reducing support for families with disabled children, disabled people who are living alone, families with young carers and disabled people in work, risk driving many over the edge in future.”

Disability Rights UK Chief Executive, Liz Sayce, said:

“We are very grateful to Baroness Grey-Thompson for spearheading this inquiry. Whilst the Universal Credit may benefit some disabled people, the findings are stark for thousands more. We are fearful that the government aim of ensuring work always pays appears to be undermined by some aspects of Universal Credit proposals which could price some disabled people out of work and deeper into poverty.”

The Children’s Society Chief Executive Matthew Reed said:

“This inquiry has lifted the lid on the stark reality that many disabled people will face when the new benefits system comes into force. While it is true that some people will be better off under Universal Credit, it is shocking that so many disabled people – including children – will have to cut back on food, specialist equipment and, in some cases, be forced to move out of their homes or consider moving their child into full time residential care.”

Citizens Advice Chief Executive Gillian Guy said:

“These findings show all too clearly the daily struggle many severely disabled people already face to make ends meet. Not only will these cuts plunge many of the least supported, most isolated and most severely disabled people deeper into poverty, debt and despair, they will not even help the government achieve its main aims of creating a simpler benefits system that makes work pay and supports those in greatest need. This report comes up with solutions that it’s not too late to put in place at no extra cost. The government needs to act on these without delay.”

The new benefit is due to come into place in October 2013. In the report, Baroness Grey-Thompson and the three supporting organisations make recommendations to make sure that some of the most vulnerable people are protected. The fear is that these changes will leave gaping holes in the safety net for many disabled people

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/policy-campaigns/benefits/half-million-disabled-people-could-lose-out-under-universal-credit

Its already cost a fortune:

Universal credit scheme will waste at least £140m, say MPs
Committee criticises 'alarmingly weak' management and questions whether project can be delivered by 2017 deadline
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/07/universal-credit-waste-mps

It has been a complete disaster, both in planning and implementation and is shameful.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:06 pm

It not bloody surprising when every tom dick and harry has been trying to make it fail.

Do you have a problem with the basic premise?

It is patently ridiculous that I need to have 4 separate teams of civil servants servicing my claims - that I have to answer the same questions on 4 different forms to get the money I am entitled to, that I have to report any changes to 4 different people.

I get that it is not perfect - nothing ever is in planning stage. What makes the difference is if the people affected work with those trying to get it right or decide to make it as difficult as possible for them.

At the moment if I work 10 hours a week I get to keep just £10 of it and get snowed under with paperwork - under universal credit I keep £56 of it and have one form. But apparently I am much better off where I am now.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:10 pm

Catman wrote:I kid you not that some of the advisers hum 'If you go down to the woods today, your sure to get a big surprise'

Heard them do that myself...Or rather the one sitting next to the adviser that is giving the interrogation.

FAF Phil!! Laughing

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:12 pm

sphinx wrote:It not bloody surprising when every tom dick and harry has been trying to make it fail.

Do you have a problem with the basic premise?

It is patently ridiculous that I need to have 4 separate teams of civil servants servicing my claims - that I have to answer the same questions on 4 different forms to get the money I am entitled to, that I have to report any changes to 4 different people.

I get that it is not perfect - nothing ever is in planning stage. What makes the difference is if the people affected work with those trying to get it right or decide to make it as difficult as possible for them.

At the moment if I work 10 hours a week I get to keep just £10 of it and get snowed under with paperwork - under universal credit I keep £56 of it and have one form. But apparently I am much better off where I am now.

....no it would not Sphinx, having seperate departments is more of a safeguard to ensure each department does not get the claims mixed up...and ensures the right people get what they are due.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:16 pm

Joy Division wrote:
Catman wrote:I kid you not that some of the advisers hum 'If you go down to the woods today, your sure to get a big surprise'

Heard them do that myself...Or rather the one sitting next to the adviser that is giving the interrogation.
FAF Phil!!

Well we couldn't believe our ears at the time either!

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