Taking the meaning of racism too far.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I think we pretty much all agree that the OP raises a rather frivolous situation.  But it has provoked a pretty good discussion from an analytical viewpoint.

Yes we agree on that, and other stuff too.
Thankfully the things we may not agree on are discussed and debated in a civil forthright manner....which the vast majority of people on this forum do without bother....which always makes for interesting debates.

Original Quill wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

So by that yardstick, all whites are racist?   The Rotherham rapists, who considered those white girls scum and sluts, not even worthy of being part of the human race, were merely prejudiced?

Perhaps, yes.  Sounds a good example.  

But I can't say, because I've never heard of Rotherham, or a rapist associated with it.

(OK, I've just Googled it...it's a town in south Yorkshire.  I've not been there.)

I think all whites, though perhaps not prejudiced, still participate in a culture that is racist.  I, in particular, enjoy participation in a culture that has disadvantaged black people.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:

I agree that prejudging and racism are two completely different things Quill. We all pre judge to a certain extent...it's human nature, and it's how we get through life. If someone looks like a mad axe murderer we will act accordingly....we have pre judged them solely by the way they look or act.

But Horatio described what to me sounded like racism....as in he had friends who hated Asians. They call them names and look down on them.

That to me IS racism not prejudism,
Could be the difference in your language and our landuage is causing confusion though.

I think that Quill is saying that non-white people can't be racist, but they can be prejudiced. It's a common argument I've seen from other Americans.

Raggamuffin wrote:I think that Quill is saying that non-white people can't be racist, but they can be prejudiced. It's a common argument I've seen from other Americans.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think that Quill is saying that non-white people can't be racist, but they can be prejudiced. It's a common argument I've seen from other Americans.

That's daft though. PEOPLE are racist...and people come in all shapes, colours and sizes.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I think that Quill is saying that non-white people can't be racist, but they can be prejudiced. It's a common argument I've seen from other Americans.

The reason why you have that impression, is that for a culture to develop an attitude about a certain race, it takes centuries and centuries.  Because of the military dominance of the white race over Africans, in particular, we have not seen a historical pattern of racism toward whites.

It is conceivable.  We just haven't experienced a culture that has that theme.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think that Quill is saying that non-white people can't be racist, but they can be prejudiced. It's a common argument I've seen from other Americans.

That's daft though. PEOPLE are racist...and people come in all shapes, colours and sizes.

Oxford Dictionary wrote:Definition of -esque in English:
suffix

(Forming adjectives) in the style of; resembling

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Perhaps, yes.  Sounds a good example.  

But I can't say, because I've never heard of Rotherham, or a rapist associated with it.

(OK, I've just Googled it...it's a town in south Yorkshire.  I've not been there.)

I think all whites, though perhaps not prejudiced, still participate in a culture that is racist.  I, in particular, enjoy participation in a culture that has disadvantaged black people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_sex_trafficking_gang

It was Rochdale, not Rotherham.

The main issue was whether or not a blind eye was turned by the authorities for fear of being labelled "racist".

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

The reason why you have that impression, is that for a culture to develop an attitude about a certain race, it takes centuries and centuries.  Because of the military dominance of the white race over Africans, in particular, we have not seen a historical pattern of racism toward whites.

It is conceivable.  We just haven't experienced a culture that has that theme.

It's not an impression though is it? You really do think that.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's not an impression though is it? You really do think that.

I've had no experience with it, so I don't even know what it feels like.

As I say, it's never existed in history.  It's just an analytical construct.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think that Quill is saying that non-white people can't be racist, but they can be prejudiced. It's a common argument I've seen from other Americans.

That's daft though. PEOPLE are racist...and people come in all shapes, colours and sizes.

This is why I don't want the Americans to export that kind of nonsense to this country. They are basically saying that white people are racist by default.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_sex_trafficking_gang

It was Rochdale, not Rotherham.

The main issue was whether or not a blind eye was turned by the authorities for fear of being labelled "racist".

Rotherham had their own gangs of Asian groomers.....as did other towns in the North West, also Sheffield, Birmingham, Oxford...the list goes on.

Didge wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes we agree on that, and other stuff too.
Thankfully the things we may not agree on are discussed and debated in a civil forthright manner....which the vast majority of people on this forum do without bother....which always makes for interesting debates.

Or in fact you keep using  a falsehood as a copout clause which many are simple not buying

No matter how many times you continually dress it up

Syl wrote:

Didge wrote:


Or in fact you keep using  a falsehood as a copout clause which many are simple not buying

No matter how many times you continually dress it up

Oh sod off Didge...you are boring.
Like I said you keep repeating the same old insults with no foundation, so actually it's you who are peddling "falsehoods" around....which seems to be the norm for you.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:
Rotherham had their own gangs of Asian groomers.....as did other towns in the North West, also Sheffield, Birmingham, Oxford...the list goes on.

OK. I thought the main one was Rochdale, but I don't know really.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I've had no experience with it, so I don't even know what it feels like.

As I say, it's never existed in history.  It's just an analytical construct.

I mean you really think that non-white people can't be racist, only prejudiced.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

This is why I don't want the Americans to export that kind of nonsense to this country. They are basically saying that white people are racist by default.

That's it ina nutshell: because of history we are "racist by default"
So then all Germans must hate all Jews by default?

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

OK. I thought the main one was Rochdale, but I don't know really.

There were loads of threads around last year and the year before detailing these gangs. Rochdale is next door to me so I knew what was happening and what had happened for decades.
It got really depressing reading and writing about it all though.

It did happen in many places and hopefully it's not going on now, though Rochdale has been in the news again  because The Times made a headline calling Rochdale the "Sex grooming town" after an Imam was found murdered a few days ago.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/20/times-apologise-rochdale-sex-grooming-town-murder-imam

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

This is why I don't want the Americans to export that kind of nonsense to this country. They are basically saying that white people are racist by default.

That's it ina nutshell: because of history we are "racist by default"
So then all Germans must hate all Jews by default?

You could change.  I think that's what happened with our fathers and mothers.

eddie wrote:Lots of black people have a Chip on their shoulder in regards to white people, which means they're pre-judging white people because they're white hence they are being racist.
And this has been going on for years so now black people have their own history of racism.

Everyone is a little bit racist

eddie wrote:Lots of black people have a Chip on their shoulder in regards to white people, which means they're pre-judging white people because they're white hence they are being racist.
And this has been going on for years so now black people have their own history of racism.

Everyone is a little bit racist

eddie wrote:Lots of black people have a Chip on their shoulder in regards to white people, which means they're pre-judging white people because they're white hence they are being racist.
And this has been going on for years so now black people have their own history of racism.

Everyone is a little bit racist

eddie wrote:Lots of black people have a Chip on their shoulder in regards to white people, which means they're pre-judging white people because they're white hence they are being racist.
And this has been going on for years so now black people have their own history of racism.

Everyone is a little bit racist

Syl wrote:

eddie wrote:Lots of black people have a Chip on their shoulder in regards to white people, which means they're pre-judging white people because they're white hence they are being racist.
And this has been going on for years so now black people have their own history of racism.

Everyone is a little bit racist

You say that Eddie...I don't think I agree though.
Everyone prejudges, but I don't think everyone is racist.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I mean you really think that non-white people can't be racist, only prejudiced.

I've never seen an African or Asian culture that is built upon institutions of prejudice against white people.  As the world has shaped up, historically, the white race has had the advantage technologically and militarily.  That advantage has caused most 'other' race/cultures to be jealous and covetous of white peoples, but not racist (judgmentally superior).

Meh...perhaps the Empire of Japan in the earlier part of last century.

eddie wrote:Lots of black people have a Chip on their shoulder in regards to white people, which means they're pre-judging white people because they're white hence they are being racist.
And this has been going on for years so now black people have their own history of racism.

Everyone is a little bit racist

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:Lots of black people have a Chip on their shoulder in regards to white people, which means they're pre-judging white people because they're white hence they are being racist.
And this has been going on for years so now black people have their own history of racism.

Everyone is a little bit racist

Yes. I haven't seen this in my own experience, but I have seen it on certain forums. I think it's mostly black Americans - they're told that white people are racist, so they get defensive straight away and expect it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:

There were loads of threads around last year and the year before detailing these gangs. Rochdale is next door to me so I knew what was happening and what had happened for decades.
It got really depressing reading and writing about it all though.

It did happen in many places and hopefully it's not going on now, though Rochdale has been in the news again  because The Times made a headline calling Rochdale the "Sex grooming town" after an Imam was found murdered a few days ago.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/20/times-apologise-rochdale-sex-grooming-town-murder-imam

Yes, it is a bit depressing, and a far cry from "The Rochdale Cowboy".

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes. I haven't seen this in my own experience, but I have seen it on certain forums. I think it's mostly black Americans - they're told that white people are racist, so they get defensive straight away and expect it.

I have at least three black old school friends who are really like this on Facebook.
Going to boot their arses out soon, it gets on my tits every day.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Lots of black people have a Chip on their shoulder in regards to white people, which means they're pre-judging white people because they're white hence they are being racist.
And this has been going on for years so now black people have their own history of racism.

Everyone is a little bit racist

I think you are trying to obliterate the distinction we have carefully built up.  Perhaps intentionally?

Yes, I've seen black people with prejudices toward whites.  Whites can't jump?  Etc., etc.

Sometime we might have an interesting discussion about what "Zippity-doo-dah" means, out of the Tales of Uncle Remus book.  That whole book refers to prejudices that blacks have developed in response--maybe defense?--to the dominate white culture.

Stormee wrote:Can someone be proud of being 'called', 'labelled' racist from the mouths of others?
I say YES

They person being called a racist can see themselves as being patriotic, loving there own country when it is going down the pan caused by people calling him racist when he sees them as unpatriotic and worse.

Why should a person who loves his own country be condemned for wanting to preserve it, improve it.

eddie wrote:

Syl wrote:

You say that Eddie...I don't think I agree though.
Everyone prejudges, but I don't think everyone is racist.

Oh they are. Just a little. Even if it never has to pop out.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, it is a bit depressing, and a far cry from "The Rochdale Cowboy".

Mike Harding.
Did loads to help the charities the Manchester Taxi drivers used to campaign for....whilst the creep Saville took all the pundits.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Lots of black people have a Chip on their shoulder in regards to white people, which means they're pre-judging white people because they're white hence they are being racist.
And this has been going on for years so now black people have their own history of racism.

Everyone is a little bit racist

I think you are trying to obliterate the distinction we have carefully built up.  Perhaps intentionally?

Yes, I've seen black people with prejudices toward whites.  Whites can't jump?  Etc., etc.

Sometime we might have an interesting discussion about what "Zippity-doo-dah" means, out of the Tales of Uncle Remus book.  That whole book refers to prejudices that blacks have developed in response--maybe defense?--to the dominate white culture.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes. I haven't seen this in my own experience, but I have seen it on certain forums. I think it's mostly black Americans - they're told that white people are racist, so they get defensive straight away and expect it.

I have at least three black old school friends who are really like this on Facebook.
Going to boot their arses out soon, it gets on my tits every day.

You see, I couldn't be doing with that. If I was friends with a black person, I'd want it to be a normal friendship, not one where I was worrying about saying the "wrong" thing. I like to be friends with people who I have something in common with, not people who have a completely different attitude.

eddie wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I think you are trying to obliterate the distinction we have carefully built up.  Perhaps intentionally?

Yes, I've seen black people with prejudices toward whites.  Whites can't jump?  Etc., etc.

Sometime we might have an interesting discussion about what "Zippity-doo-dah" means, out of the Tales of Uncle Remus book.  That whole book refers to prejudices that blacks have developed in response--maybe defense?--to the dominate white culture.

So perhaps they are pre-judging a white man because he's white (and they consider him historically racist and racist by default?) which in turn makes them racist for judging his race?

That's a fact quill

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You see, I couldn't be doing with that. If I was friends with a black person, I'd want it to be a normal friendship, not one where I was worrying about saying the "wrong" thing. I like to be friends with people who I have something in common with, not people who have a completely different attitude.

Some of the stuff they post, I actually agre with and I support, but sometimes they do what Quill does and say "Oh my God! A white dog just bit me....its racist!!"

And I usually post: No its not, grow up. Not everything white, hates you.

eddie wrote:Quill does and say "Oh my God! A white dog just bit me....its racist!!"

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Quill does and say "Oh my God! A white dog just bit me....its racist!!"

You're being silly and belligerent now, eds.  Where is the centuries of history in a white dog?

And you know it.  You're responding with attitude.  Get back to the intellectual discussion.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:


You're being silly and belligerent now, eds.  Where is the centuries of history in a white dog?

And you know it.  You're responding with attitude.  Get back to the intellectual discussion.

She was talking to me actually, and it was a good conversation.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You see, I couldn't be doing with that. If I was friends with a black person, I'd want it to be a normal friendship, not one where I was worrying about saying the "wrong" thing. I like to be friends with people who I have something in common with, not people who have a completely different attitude.

Some of the stuff they post, I actually agre with and I support, but sometimes they do what Quill does and say "Oh my God! A white dog just bit me....its racist!!"

And I usually post: No its not, grow up. Not everything white, hates you.

Syl wrote:

Didge wrote:

Copout again

Look as flattering as it is to talk about me, that has no relevance to the debate

All you and Rags are doing is infantile, posting between each other in the hope others will get bored and drop out, as you both know you have no valid points here

The most telling and ill conceived point you just made and yet again you are another poster guilty of this, trying to downplay racism claiming incorrectly its only something from the past.

I suggest you learn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface#United_States

T

I have come to realise that you don't actually respond to what people post (unless they agree with you) ....I said the other night you are on repeat rewind, translate that to mean you answer a person not on what they actually say but on what you want to hear so you can insult and deride them....and you don't budge from that stance...just grind away...on and on.

Throughout this thread I have addressed racism, the different way people perceive it, and the way this thread has developed from the two points of view.....mainly those who see the OP being connected with racism and those who see two kids laughing at their funny face masks which just happen to be black.

You don't read those posts though...in fact you get confused as to who is posting them, (Rags wrote a post earlier and you replied to me) what you do excel at is blowing your own trumpet as if everything you say is right and everyone else is wrong.....you need a reality check.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Quill does and say "Oh my God! A white dog just bit me....its racist!!"

You're being silly and belligerent now, eds.  Where is the centuries of history in a white dog?

And you know it.  You're responding with attitude.  Get back to the intellectual discussion.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:


You're being silly and belligerent now, eds.  Where is the centuries of history in a white dog?

And you know it.  You're responding with attitude.  Get back to the intellectual discussion.

She was talking to me actually, and it was a good conversation.

By demeaning Quill based off a falsified claim?

Original Quill wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

So by that yardstick, all whites are racist?   The Rotherham rapists, who considered those white girls scum and sluts, not even worthy of being part of the human race, were merely prejudiced?

Perhaps, yes.  Sounds a good example.  

But I can't say, because I've never heard of Rotherham, or a rapist associated with it.

(OK, I've just Googled it...it's a town in south Yorkshire.  I've not been there.)

I think all whites, though perhaps not prejudiced, still participate in a culture that is racist.  I, in particular, enjoy participation in a culture that has disadvantaged black people.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Perhaps, yes.  Sounds a good example.  

But I can't say, because I've never heard of Rotherham, or a rapist associated with it.

(OK, I've just Googled it...it's a town in south Yorkshire.  I've not been there.)

I think all whites, though perhaps not prejudiced, still participate in a culture that is racist.  I, in particular, enjoy participation in a culture that has disadvantaged black people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_sex_trafficking_gang

It was Rochdale, not Rotherham.

The main issue was whether or not a blind eye was turned by the authorities for fear of being labelled "racist".

Didge wrote:

Syl wrote:

Oh sod off Didge...you are boring.
Like I said you keep repeating the same old insults with no foundation, so actually it's you who are peddling "falsehoods" around....which seems to be the norm for you.

More inane immature responses proving that in fact it has been yourself and Rags who have been far from being civil to posters.

Again countless points remain unrefuted

And still we see you do your level best to deflect away from answering them

Be a good sport and learn to grow up