Fox Hunts Ride Out For Boxing Day Meets

First topic message reminder :

http://news.sky.com/story/1187043/fox-hunts-ride-out-for-boxing-day-meets   (video at link)



We having foxes that come into our garden with their cubs...Sometimes they are a bit noisy at night, but i like that as living in an urban area...I feel that it brings you closer to nature.

Thousands of supporters attended Boxing Day hunts across the UK today as a poll shows 80% of people remain opposed to hunting with dogs for sport.

Some 250 hunts rode out today on the biggest day of the hunting calendar, some following an artificial scent while others hunting foxes within the law.

Groups of hunt saboteurs were out in force too, monitoring hunts they believed were trying to flout the law and hunt foxes illegally.

Yawning Fox
The poll suggests opinions on hunting are the same in urban and rural areas
The survey commissioned by animal welfare organisation The League Against Cruel Sports reveals 80% of the public think hunting should not be made legal again.

In October, David Cameron said he had "some sympathies" with farmers demanding the use of packs of hounds to flush out foxes if they threatened livestock. Once driven out, the foxes could be shot.

Downing Street suggested it might introduce a government motion to amend the 2004 ban on hunting by relaxing rules that say farmers can only use two dogs to hunt.

The Prime Minister's official spokesman said he was particularly worried about hill farmers who have suffered heavy losses of livestock that is threatening their livelihoods.

Joe Duckworth, chief executive of The League Against Cruel Sports, said: "Hunting is a sickeningly cruel blood sport, which, like us, the majority of the British public do not want brought back.

"Voting for repeal would be political suicide. We need to move forward as a nation, not backwards on matters of animal welfare."

The survey, carried out by Ipsos MORI, also suggests that on the issue of legalising fox hunting, there is no difference between people living in rural areas and those in urban areas.

Gavin Grant, chief executive of the RSPCA, which also commissioned the survey, said: "As a rural dweller I have always known that opposition to hunting with dogs has never been an issue of 'town versus country'. This poll proves it once and for all.

"The message to MPs is loud and clear. Hunting wild animals with dogs is unethical, inhumane and cruel."

http://news.sky.com/story/1187043/fox-hunts-ride-out-for-boxing-day-meets

Oh.....And they don't attack domestic cats either, as we have observed out cats through the window when they are out there at the same time, they don't take a blind bit of notice towards each other.

sphinx wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


That's just fine, I only wanted the headache to end, you've again shown your worth  just as you did on your various old sites, it matters not to me.

So presumably my worth would be more if I threw up my hands and said yes JD I do neglect my children, I am a selfish bitch and you are so wonderful for bringing that to everyones attention.

Tell me JD what the fuck do you do when someone twists what you have said and uses to tell the world you are a crap parent?  You want to let the past go then you can bloody well apologise and tell this whole board of strangers that you only told them half the story and tell them the other half - the bits you missed out.

..I never said any of those bots Sphinx , like ...you neglect your kids or not did I call you a selfish bitch.

And I can not remember every word you said, only that you get exhausted , get pain and that it prevented you  from caring properly or as best you can for your kids...

Then you went on to talk about fishing etc..

Now I'm not  it going to go over all this again, I have explained myself.

I will only apologise for bringing it on to here, if you can think of  reason(s)as to why you should only have an apology for me, but if you can't think of one we will just leave it at that Sphinx.

So you wont even admit you only said half of what I put. I have never said I did not put those things I have said that you only put half of the story and changed the emphasis.

And yes I have changed the title. And if I ever see a parent who does not go mental when someone makes out they are selfish and neglectful I wont be impressed. You say the children come first - well the children coming first includes allowing no-one to say you are a bad parent unchallenged.

You refuse to put the rest of what I said fine - shows what honor you have doesnt it.

Joy Division wrote:

sphinx wrote:

So presumably my worth would be more if I threw up my hands and said yes JD I do neglect my children, I am a selfish bitch and you are so wonderful for bringing that to everyones attention.

Tell me JD what the fuck do you do when someone twists what you have said and uses to tell the world you are a crap parent?  You want to let the past go then you can bloody well apologise and tell this whole board of strangers that you only told them half the story and tell them the other half - the bits you missed out.

..I never said any of those bots Sphinx , like ...you neglect your kids or not did I call you a selfish bitch.

And I can not remember every word you said, only that you get exhausted , get pain and that it prevented you  from caring properly or as best you can for your kids...

Then you went on to talk about fishing etc..

Now I'm not  it going to go over all this again, I have explained myself.

I will only apologise for bringing it on to here, if you can think of  reason(s)as to why you should only have an apology for me, but if you  ant think of one we will just leave it at that Sphinx.

I will apologize for the title I used JD - I should not have attacked you the way you did me because I lowered myself to your level. I was just so hurt and so angry I wanted you to realize the paid your twisting was causing me because you keep claiming to be a caring person who did not seem to be aware of what he was doing.
You are still doing it and I have made you fully aware of what you are doing - so carry on in your caring persona of ripping me to bits and showing the world how useless I am.

sphinx wrote:So you wont even admit you only said half of what I put.  I have never said I did not put those things I have said that you only put half of the story and changed the emphasis.  

And yes I have changed the title.  And if I ever see a parent who does not go mental when someone makes out they are selfish and neglectful I wont be impressed.  You say the children come first - well the children coming first includes allowing no-one to say you are a bad parent unchallenged.  

You refuse to put the rest of what I said fine - shows what honor you have doesnt it.

...let's not go into honour Sphinx, you lacked that on ADO, and were only honourable to those you thought were in your opinion worthy of it.

I told you I only remember some of what you said, not every single word...but you did say the your ex can better cope than you can due to your fybro.

And at no time did I ever say you were or are a bad parent, nor did I ever say you neglected the kids.

And your abusive outbursts just show what honour and lack of control as both a person and an admin has doesn't it?..not to mention sanctioning the poster who has been abused on your old site and favouring people..especially the like of Bliar, bacon and flap.

It's just terrible mod material Sphinx, I remember...and to think I tried to keep your gaff going with Irn and BA.

sphinx wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


..I never said any of those bots Sphinx , like ...you neglect your kids or not did I call you a selfish bitch.

And I can not remember every word you said, only that you get exhausted , get pain and that it prevented you  from caring properly or as best you can for your kids...

Then you went on to talk about fishing etc..

Now I'm not  it going to go over all this again, I have explained myself.

I will only apologise for bringing it on to here, if you can think of  reason(s)as to why you should only have an apology for me, but if you  ant think of one we will just leave it at that Sphinx.

I will apologize for the title I used JD - I should not have attacked you the way you did me because I lowered myself to your level.  I was just so hurt and so angry I wanted you to realize the paid your twisting was causing me because you keep claiming to be a caring person who did not seem to be aware of what he was doing.
You are still doing it and I have made you fully aware of what you are doing - so carry on in your caring persona of ripping me to bits and showing the world how useless I am.  

There you go again...I offered you an olive branch and you speak to me in a condescending tone, blaming it all on me...

That was barely a half hearted apology Sphinx, and I think you have something else to apologise for...

So when you're ready to do this the right way without snide remarks about 'going to my level' , then we can start again.

It's either full sincere apologies on both side Sphinx, or just forget it, I'm not playing games.

Oh so now you admit you cannot remember all of what I said yet you were happy to put the bit you could remember up and never mind what it looked like.

You said

Indeed Nems , I'm not normally one to slam folk for their circumstances but if I were her, I would be far more focused on my children rather than fishing and fox hunts, it would break me not to have them stay with me and I know you would be the same, it's all very bizarre for anyone to put hunting and fishing before their children,let alone a woman, and she must be made of solid stuff not to want to see them everyday and from what she said, she chooses not to see them everyday...

I have no sympathy for people like that, I myself am also disabled with a few things not as they should be, I get sever spinal pain and what not, but that would NEVER stop me wanting to be with my kids, children never asked to be born , we chose that and should look after them and lobe them with all our heart.

Like you say Nems, it just does not fit, a mother who will not look after her children, but has all the time and energy to go to illegal hunts , fishing and what not.
If she had lost both her legs then I would understand more, but it sounds like they can come back once they are older as the youngest ones are more dependant on the parents, let the father raise them then take the credit when they are older.

I'm sorry if this sounds brutal , but one thing I loathe is people who can not be bothered with their kids when they damn well should be.

We brought them into this world and it is each of our duties to raise them as best we can, there are too many kids feeling unloved and unwanted, this later leads to trouble in later life.

So lets break that down

You dont normally slam people - but you were going to slam me
you would be far more focused on the children - so I am not focused on my children
it would break you not having your children - but its not breaking me
very bizarre - so I must be lying about something
very hard - speaks for itself
from what she says chooses not to see them every day - so what did you mean by that if not neglect
You have no sympathy for me - yeah thats obvious
You are also disabled - and obviously a wonderful parent as compared to me
Should look after them and love them with all our heart - obvious I do not
A mother who would not look after her children - so I dont look after my children
goes on illegal hunts - now I would love to know where the hell I ever said or implied going on illegal ones
let the father raise them and take the credit - again JD what exactly did you mean by that phrase


Then at the bottom just in case someone mistaken thought you were not ripping me apart and calling me a bad parent you put
one thing I loathe is people who can not be bothered with their kids when they damn well should be

So JD if that is you simply repeating stuff I put elsewhere without missing bits out, or twisting it, and that is not you calling me neglectful, a bad mother, a law breaker then I sure as hell would not want to be there when you make something up and actually want to insult some.

sphinx wrote:Oh so now you admit you cannot remember all of what I said yet you were happy to put the bit you could remember up and never mind what it looked like.

You said

Indeed Nems , I'm not normally one to slam folk for their circumstances but if I were her, I would be far more focused on my children rather than fishing and fox hunts, it would break me not to have them stay with me and I know you would be the same, it's all very bizarre for anyone to put hunting and fishing before their children,let alone a woman, and she must be made of solid stuff not to want to see them everyday and from what she said, she chooses not to see them everyday...

I have no sympathy for people like that, I myself am also disabled with a few things not as they should be, I get sever spinal pain and what not, but that would NEVER stop me wanting to be with my kids, children never asked to be born , we chose that and should look after them and lobe them with all our heart.

Like you say Nems, it just does not fit, a mother who will not look after her children, but has all the time and energy to go to illegal hunts , fishing and what not.
If she had lost both her legs then I would understand more, but it sounds like they can come back once they are older as the youngest ones are more dependant on the parents, let the father raise them then take the credit when they are older.

I'm sorry if this sounds brutal , but one thing I loathe is people who can not be bothered with their kids when they damn well should be.

We brought them into this world and it is each of our duties to raise them as best we can, there are too many kids feeling unloved and unwanted, this later leads to trouble in later life.

So lets break that down

You dont normally slam people - but you were going to slam me
you would be far more focused on the children - so I am not focused on my children
it would break you not having your children - but its not breaking me
very bizarre - so I must be lying about something
very hard - speaks for itself
from what she says chooses not to see them every day - so what did you mean by that if not neglect
You have no sympathy for me - yeah thats obvious
You are also disabled - and obviously a wonderful parent as compared to me
Should look after them and love them with all our heart - obvious I do not
A mother who would not look after her children - so I dont look after my children
goes on illegal hunts - now I would love to know where the hell I ever said or implied going on illegal ones
let the father raise them and take the credit - again JD what exactly did you mean by that phrase


Then at the bottom just in case someone mistaken thought you were not ripping me apart and calling me a bad parent you put
one thing I loathe is people who can not be bothered with their kids when they damn well should be

So JD if that is you simply repeating stuff I put elsewhere without missing bits out, or twisting it, and that is not you calling me neglectful, a bad mother, a law breaker then I sure as hell would not want to be there when you make something up and actually want to insult some.

.. I see your names up but I knew you were there Sphinx, bit anyway NEVER DAID YOU WERE A BAD MOTHER OR THAT TOU NEVER HAVE TOUR OWN KIDS AT HOME AT ANY POINT Sphinx...I think I did say you took the credit, that was wrong.

I think you now realise I never actually called you a ' bad or neglectful mother', but that is the spin Didge put into yesterday , just to spite and twist things.

Hunts are illegal aren't they?, you did say that one year you were going or had been to a gathering of the horses..or something to that effect.

And yes it would break me not to see them everyday, and you admit it would not do likewise with you, well I'm sorry that I can't get my head around that one, that is just the way it is, and I'm sure that when they come over to yours l you make the best time with them after all, I don't live at yours so I should not assume what would hurt me as a parent would hurt you too.

sphinx wrote:Oh so now you admit you cannot remember all of what I said yet you were happy to put the bit you could remember up and never mind what it looked like.

You said

Indeed Nems , I'm not normally one to slam folk for their circumstances but if I were her, I would be far more focused on my children rather than fishing and fox hunts, it would break me not to have them stay with me and I know you would be the same, it's all very bizarre for anyone to put hunting and fishing before their children,let alone a woman, and she must be made of solid stuff not to want to see them everyday and from what she said, she chooses not to see them everyday...

I have no sympathy for people like that, I myself am also disabled with a few things not as they should be, I get sever spinal pain and what not, but that would NEVER stop me wanting to be with my kids, children never asked to be born , we chose that and should look after them and lobe them with all our heart.

Like you say Nems, it just does not fit, a mother who will not look after her children, but has all the time and energy to go to illegal hunts , fishing and what not.
If she had lost both her legs then I would understand more, but it sounds like they can come back once they are older as the youngest ones are more dependant on the parents, let the father raise them then take the credit when they are older.

I'm sorry if this sounds brutal , but one thing I loathe is people who can not be bothered with their kids when they damn well should be.

We brought them into this world and it is each of our duties to raise them as best we can, there are too many kids feeling unloved and unwanted, this later leads to trouble in later life.

So lets break that down

You dont normally slam people - but you were going to slam me
you would be far more focused on the children - so I am not focused on my children
it would break you not having your children - but its not breaking me
very bizarre - so I must be lying about something
very hard - speaks for itself
from what she says chooses not to see them every day - so what did you mean by that if not neglect
You have no sympathy for me - yeah thats obvious
You are also disabled - and obviously a wonderful parent as compared to me
Should look after them and love them with all our heart - obvious I do not
A mother who would not look after her children - so I dont look after my children
goes on illegal hunts - now I would love to know where the hell I ever said or implied going on illegal ones
let the father raise them and take the credit - again JD what exactly did you mean by that phrase


Then at the bottom just in case someone mistaken thought you were not ripping me apart and calling me a bad parent you put
one thing I loathe is people who can not be bothered with their kids when they damn well should be

So JD if that is you simply repeating stuff I put elsewhere without missing bits out, or twisting it, and that is not you calling me neglectful, a bad mother, a law breaker then I sure as hell would not want to be there when you make something up and actually want to insult some.

Well said and why you should have to defend yourself from such poor accusations is wrong, you have been cast as a child abuser, which knowing you have a loving family and have struggled through illness and a low income ha shown the true strength and character of you which how many others could do the same under he same circumstances. I find it appalling that people would stoop so low as to attack your ability to be a mother, it goes beyond insulting ad is disgusting on all levels! The decent thing for Joy to do would be to apologise as he must realise what he said was in anger based on your support of Fox hunting and did not have any evidence or backing to his claims, which did not warrant the false accusations labelled at you.

Sorry you have had to suffer this Sphinx

A lovely tradition. Let's keep it up!

Look Sphinx,we are just going around I circles here...

I have stated where I stand, if we exchange apologies and specify why these apologies are needed I will honour them for my part, but not in a nasty fashion , sincerely only and without any further  snideness or confrontation.

Joy Division wrote:Look Sphinx,we are just going around I circles here...

I have stated where I stand, if we exchange apologies and specify why these apologies are needed I will honour them for my part, but not in a nasty fashion , sincerely only and without any further  snideness or confrontation.

Sorry Joy, you did wrong, swallow some pride and admit what you said was in error and wrong, attacking one of the worst things you can say to a mother, that they are a bad mother and even worse claim neglect, it is not difficult to do and should not need an explanation why you need to apologise!

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:Look Sphinx,we are just going around I circles here...

I have stated where I stand, if we exchange apologies and specify why these apologies are needed I will honour them for my part, but not in a nasty fashion , sincerely only and without any further  snideness or confrontation.

Sorry Joy, you did wrong, swallow some pride and admit what you said was in error and wrong, attacking one of the worst things you can say to a mother, that they are a bad mother and even worse claim neglect, it is not difficult to do and should not need an explanation why you need to apologise!

..you've bit of apologising to do yourself Didge, you took this and turned it into something else and dragged it everywhere yesterday.

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Sorry Joy, you did wrong, swallow some pride and admit what you said was in error and wrong, attacking one of the worst things you can say to a mother, that they are a bad mother and even worse claim neglect, it is not difficult to do and should not need an explanation why you need to apologise!

..you've bit of apologising to do yourself Didge, you took this and turned it into something else and dragged it everywhere yesterday.

Well as i did apologise to Irn, it shows how much of a better person I am than you, though I called him a liar, which is found to be true when he is now denying things he said in the past, but at least I apologised and your comments were beyond contempt.

So how about you show some decency

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


..you've bit of apologising to do yourself Didge, you took this and turned it into something else and dragged it everywhere yesterday.

Well as i did apologise to Irn, it shows how much of a better person I am than you, though I called him a liar, which is found to be true when he is now denying things he said in the past, but at least I apologised and your comments were beyond contempt.

So how about you show some decency

.. I doubt your apology for stirring , telling lies and running around screaming and getting over excited yesterday will come, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt Didge...

Just a shame you have not the same advice for your pal Shady, who makes unfounded claims I take drugs in front of my children.

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Well as i did apologise to Irn, it shows how much of a better person I am than you, though I called him a liar, which is found to be true when he is now denying things he said in the past, but at least I apologised and your comments were beyond contempt.

So how about you show some decency

.. I doubt your apology for stirring ,  telling lies and running around screaming and getting over excited yesterday will come, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt Didge...

Just a shame you have not the same advice for your pal Shady, who makes unfounded claims I take drugs in front of my children.

Actually I did if you read back! I said he should not be drawn down to your level, but what he said was wrong also, but was no doubt in reply to your poor accusations and made in the attempt to show you it is not nice to do so, which might have given you a hint. The only shit stirring started when the usual commie gang get together and start bashing people, in this case Sphinx.

Now you went onto me about saying sorry and I did, you are trying to excuse what you said and what you said was disgusting!

Grow some balls

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


Well as i did apologise to Irn, it shows how much of a better person I am than you, though I called him a liar, which is found to be true when he is now denying things he said in the past, but at least I apologised and your comments were beyond contempt.

So how about you show some decency

.. I doubt your apology for stirring ,  telling lies and running around screaming and getting over excited yesterday will come, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt Didge...

Just a shame you have not the same advice for your pal Shady, who makes unfounded claims I take drugs in front of my children.

When a confirmed druggie such as yourself takes the moral high ground on a public forum then you've got to expect a response.

Deal with it or shut your trap.

PhilDidge wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


.. I doubt your apology for stirring ,  telling lies and running around screaming and getting over excited yesterday will come, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt Didge...

Just a shame you have not the same advice for your pal Shady, who makes unfounded claims I take drugs in front of my children.

Actually I did if you read back! I said he should not be drawn down to your level, but what he said was wrong also, but was no doubt in reply to your poor accusations and made in the attempt to show you it is not nice to do so, which might have given you a hint. The only shit stirring started when the usual commie gang get together and start bashing people, in this case Sphinx.

Now you went onto me about saying sorry and I did, you are trying to excuse what you said and what you said was disgusting!

Grow some balls

Just the kind of reply I expected, contradicting , trouble making, smart arse(trying to be) and no meaning other than rubbish.

You know Dodge, I honestly am dissapointed , the class clown will get you nowhere and sadly it's you and one or two others who are beginning g to upset this forum.

Just drop the stupid , senseless replies which are an attempt to cause trouble, if me and sphinx need to speak again then we will, just stay out of it, ok.

Joy Division wrote:

sphinx wrote:Oh so now you admit you cannot remember all of what I said yet you were happy to put the bit you could remember up and never mind what it looked like.

You said


So lets break that down

You dont normally slam people - but you were going to slam me
you would be far more focused on the children - so I am not focused on my children
it would break you not having your children - but its not breaking me
very bizarre - so I must be lying about something
very hard - speaks for itself
from what she says chooses not to see them every day - so what did you mean by that if not neglect
You have no sympathy for me - yeah thats obvious
You are also disabled - and obviously a wonderful parent as compared to me
Should look after them and love them with all our heart - obvious I do not
A mother who would not look after her children - so I dont look after my children
goes on illegal hunts - now I would love to know where the hell I ever said or implied going on illegal ones
let the father raise them and take the credit - again JD what exactly did you mean by that phrase


Then at the bottom just in case someone mistaken thought you were not ripping me apart and calling me a bad parent you put
one thing I loathe is people who can not be bothered with their kids when they damn well should be

So JD if that is you simply repeating stuff I put elsewhere without missing bits out, or twisting it, and that is not you calling me neglectful, a bad mother, a law breaker then I sure as hell would not want to be there when you make something up and actually want to insult some.

.. I see your names up but I knew you were there Sphinx, bit anyway  NEVER DAID YOU WERE A BAD MOTHER OR THAT TOU NEVER HAVE TOUR OWN KIDS AT HOME AT ANY POINT Sphinx...I think I did say you took the credit, that was wrong.

I think you now realise I never actually called you a ' bad or neglectful mother', but that is the spin Didge put into yesterday , just to spite and twist things.

Hunts are illegal aren't they?, you did say that one year you were going or had been to a gathering of the horses..or something to that effect.

And yes it would break me not to see them everyday, and you admit it would not do likewise with you, well I'm sorry that I can't get my head around that one, that is just the way it is, and I'm sure that when they come over to yours l you make the best time with them  after all, I don't live at yours so I should not assume what would hurt me as a parent would hurt you too.

In what world is the statement people who can not be bothered with their kids when they damn well should be not calling me a bad mother JD?

If hunts were illegal how come over 250 of them went off on Boxing day? With the police providing support for crowd control as well. Yes I go one day every year to watch my local hunt go off and then I follow it in the car for as long as I can. They are not doing anything illegal. I am not doing anything illegal. It is one day out of 365 - and when my children are with me I take them as well because they want to go.

JD I hate to tell you this but people dont break when they cannot see their kids every day - it hurts like hell but they dont break because breaking means never seeing them again ever and destroying their lives into the boot and good parents dont do that. If I am not broken not seeing my kids every day then neither is their father because he doesnt see them every day either - because some days they are with me. He did not break either when he decided to move out to be with another woman but hey thats not the point. If you had to go into hospital and the kids did not get in every day it would not break you. If your marriage went down the can (and I hope to hell it doesnt) and your missus takes the kids it will not break you - you will fight like never before to make sure you see them but that is not you breaking.

There are parents all over the place separated from their kids part of the time - be it through illness divorce or serving in the armed forces protecting the rest of us. It hurts like hell and if I were you I would be really really careful next time you start spouting on about how you cannot understand someone being away from their kids and not being broken by it, how you cannot understand how they carry on with everyday life - because that person you are standing next to might be in service and apart from children for months, or they might have been sinking every last penny they have into fighting the courts to get access because their ex is preventing them from seeing the children. You spouting about it would break you is an insult to every parent who cannot see their child despite desperately wanting to and very very few of those are bad parents.

Joy Division wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Actually I did if you read back! I said he should not be drawn down to your level, but what he said was wrong also, but was no doubt in reply to your poor accusations and made in the attempt to show you it is not nice to do so, which might have given you a hint. The only shit stirring started when the usual commie gang get together and start bashing people, in this case Sphinx.

Now you went onto me about saying sorry and I did, you are trying to excuse what you said and what you said was disgusting!

Grow some balls

Just the kind of reply I expected, contradicting , trouble making, smart arse(trying to be) and no meaning other than rubbish.

You know Dodge, I honestly am dissapointed , the class clown will get you nowhere and sadly it's you and one or two others who are beginning g to upset this forum.

Just drop the stupid , senseless replies which are an attempt to cause trouble, if me and sphinx need to speak again then we will, just stay out of it, ok.

More pathetic excuses, what is the point really, you cannot even realise you have done wrong, that shows you as a person of poor character in my books and to not have the decency to apologise after harping onto me to do so, shows how very hypocritical you are Joy. I really am not bothered if you are disappointed, is not going to make me lose any sleep over and you and others started this uncalled for attack, thus stirring, always the commies that do then even worse try to blame others, by having an unprovoked attack on Sphinx, so I am happy to drop it shame you could not or even apologise.

Locked. I guess you guys will have to start another thread to scream abuse at one another in ...