To the Woman Behind Me in Line at the Grocery Store

First topic message reminder :

Dear woman behind me in line at the grocery store,
You don't know me. You have no clue what my life has been like since October 1, 2013. You have no clue that my family has gone through the wringer. You have no clue that we have faced unbelievable hardship. You have no clue we have been humiliated, humbled, destitute.
You have no clue I have cried more days than not; that I fight against bitterness taking control of my heart. You have no clue that my husband's pride was shattered. You have no clue my kids have had the worries of an adult on their shoulders. You have no clue their innocence was snatched from them for no good reason. You know none of this.
What you do know is I tried to buy my kids some food and that the EBT machine was down so I couldn't buy that food. I didn't have any cash or my debit card with me. I only had my SNAP card. All you heard was me saying "No, don't hold it for me. My kids are hungry now and I have no other way of paying for this." You didn't judge me. You didn't snarl "Maybe you should have less kids." You didn't say "Well, get a job and learn to support yourself." You didn't look away in embarrassment or shame for me. You didn't make any assumptions at all.
What you did was you paid that $17.38 grocery bill for us. You gave my kids bananas, yogurt, apple juice, cheese sticks, and a peach ice tea for me; a rare treat and splurge. You let me hug you and promise through my tears that I WILL pay this forward. I WILL pay someone's grocery bill for them. That $17.38 may not have been a lot for you, but it was priceless to us. In the car my kids couldn't stop gushing about you; our "angel in disguise." They prayed for you. They prayed you would be blessed. You restored some of our lost faith. One simple and small action changed our lives. You probably have forgotten about us by now, but we haven't forgotten about you. You will forever be a part of us even though we don't even know your name.
You have no clue how grateful and embarrassed I am that we pay for all our food with SNAP. We eat well thanks to the government. I love that. I love that the government makes sure my kids are cared for. It is one less worry for us. I also struggle with pride and embarrassment. I defiantly tell people we are on SNAP. Daring them to judge us.
Only those closest to us know why we are on SNAP. They know my husband is a hard worker who was laid off after 17 years in a management position with his former company. They know we were moved from our home to a new state only to be left homeless since the house we had came with the job he lost. Only those closest to us know my husband works part time while looking tirelessly for more; that he has submitted more applications than he has received interviews for. Too many jobs are only offering part time work anymore. It is not easy for a 40-something year old to find a job that will support his family of five kids.
You know none of this but you didn't let that stop you from being compassionate and generous to someone you have never met.
To the woman behind me at the grocery store, you have no idea how much we appreciate you. You have no idea the impact you had on my kids. You have no idea how incredibly thankful I am for you. Your action may have been small, but to us it was monumental. Thank you.
Thank you for not judging us. Thank you for giving my kids a snack when they were quite hungry. Thank you. Just thank you.
Forever,
Andrea, the woman in front of you at the grocery store with the cart full of kids who are no longer hungry
This post first appeared on Andrea's blog truestoriesofamidwestyankee.wordpress.com


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrea-gardner/to-the-woman-behind-me-in_b_5082769.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063




The more people in the world who are this kind, the better it will be.

Regardless of it all, Tommy is still not understanding the concept that each case is different and £73 is not really enough to live on if you live on your own.

I wonder how much it costs just to FEED a prisoner????

Sassy you twat... read the first bit about being sanctioned... and having the right to appeal...


Different from being found fit to work...



And Eddie. .. who do you know that would stop working and start claiming with a totally empty cupboard...?


A pot of Italian mixed herbs only costs about 80p...


Add up all the other expenses Syl listed that I costed per month... then add on 120 quid for month food... still plenty of change out of the 300 that you would get in jsa for the month...


Besides... you are expected to find work quick. .. not sit on the dole for years...


Plenty if work about .  Look at all the hard working foreigners turning up every year to do it here because there is so much available...

Tommy Monk wrote:Sassy you twat... read the first bit about being sanctioned... and having the right to appeal...


Different from being found fit to work...



And Eddie. .. who do you know that would stop working answer start claiming with a totally empty cupboard...?


A pot of Italian mixed herbs only costs about 80p...


Add up all the other expenses Syl listed that I costed per month... then add on 150 quid for month food... still plenty of change...


Besides... you are expected to find work quick. .. not sit on the dole for years...


Plenty if work about .  Look at all the hard working foreigners turning up every year to do it here because there is so much available...

No YOU READ IT YOU FOOL.  You can appeal BUT YOU HAVE TO GO TO MANDATORY RECONSIDERATION FIRST AND IT HAS NO TIME LIMIT.  PILLOCK.

Sassy that is still an appeal and it says if appeal is in within the proscribed time then will be dealt with without delay... but in the mean time you still get hardship allowance until sanction period is up and benefits then return to normal regardless of appeal... if you win then you get paid any extra money due too!

BUT YOU CAN'T GET TO THE BLOODY APPEAL UNTIL THEY HAVE DONE THE MANDATORY RECONSIDERATION AND THAT HAS NO TIME LIMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No it says that it won't be delayed if applied for within the proscribed time limit of one month...

but in the mean time you still get hardship allowance until sanction period is up and benefits then return to normal regardless of appeal... if you win then you get paid any extra money due too!...

Stormee wrote:I wonder how much it costs just to FEED a prisoner????

about £2.20 per DAY....not per meal

bear in mind the prisons will get "bulk rate" discounts.....

Lord Foul wrote:

Stormee wrote:I wonder how much it costs just to FEED a prisoner????

about £2.20 per DAY....not per meal

bear in mind the prisons will get "bulk rate" discounts.....

I am shocked, that is toooooooo much for bread and water. lol

Seriously that does not seem much for 3 meals a day including drinks.

Tommy Monk wrote:Syl...


"He had to find council tax, elec, gas, water rates, TV licence, phone rental, bus and train fares (which as he was looking for work cost a lot) and food, plus he helps support his son who lived with his mum and step dad.
He neither smokes nor drank"

Council tax used to be totally covered by benefit if able to claim housing benefit then council tax benefit was entitled too and processed at same dept... now you don't get full money for that. You get something like 90% cover in benefit... so mine was only something like 8 quid a month I had to pay.


Elec and gas is only about 15 quid a week in total.

Water rates are not a lot at all... and TV license is only about a tenner a month.

Fares? You can get fares paid for job centre for specific interview journeys... weekly bus pass here is about 15 quid a week.

Phone... buy a cheap pay as you go from tesco for a tenner and use it sparingly... also if you have a bus pass there is nothing stopping you going to the job centre and using their phones and computers for free every day for work related job searching and phone calls.

He'd have to put the cash handouts to his son on hold for a bit if he was out of work and didn't have the money... surely?


So if you add all that up for the month plus 30 a week for food... out of approx 300 which would be 2 x giros of approx 150 quid each for the month...


Still got a few quid left over!!!

Tommy, you can do your sums all you like, the fact remains had he not had me and his dad to help out at that time he would have been in dire straits.

Coincidentally, on the BBC local news this morning...One in Eight people in the N/W are now struggling to heat their homes and buy nutritious food. That would include people on benefits and people who work and earn just above the amount that would qualify them for benefits.

Syl... you listed things that he needed money for... I have costed them and shown all to be well covered by the jsa amount provided... what else is there that more money is needed for..? 

What extra money were you giving him and for what..?

Tommy Monk wrote:Syl... you listed things that he needed money for... I have costed them and shown all to be well covered by the jsa amount provided... what else is there that more money is needed for..? 

What extra money were you giving him and for what..?

I already said had we not helped out he would have starved
And your costing is way out....he lived in a Victorian rented house at the time. Heating bills were double what you reckoned, especially in winter months which is when he was unemployed....ours are double that now  in a modern semi and prices have gone down over the last couple of years.

He didn't get an allowance for bus or train fares, and he had to use his phone more than usual to constantly check up  on job applications, which he had literally dozens of every month.
My rough weekly calculations come to water rates ...£8. Gas /elec...£30. Fares in excess of £20. Phone...pay as you go. Council tax...not sure. TV lic £2....those basic bills alone come to over £60, which would leave less than £10 for food and household items.

Yet you seem to think people have money left over for fags and booze??

He lived in a victorian rented house?

Was it a room in a shared house or flat...?

Or the whole house?

Tommy Monk wrote:He lived in a victorian rented house?

Was it a room in a shared house or flat...?

Or the whole house?

He shared with a mate who suddenly died, so he was living  on his own at that time.

I will pre-emt your next question and tell you that he was too busy looking for work to add the expense of moving to a smaller place, which he could well afford to pay for before he was made redundant.

No more third degree about my son now.....I have answered all your questions truthfully, your calculations were wrong so accept that.

What do you say about the BBC news report today that said that one in eight people in the N/W cannot afford to heat their homes or eat properly?

Jsa is only supposed to provide enough money for gas and electricity for one person... not to heat a whoke large house designed for more than one with just one person living there.

Do you think that if someone had a butler or a cook etc then jsa should be enough to carry on paying for them too?

Or if someone has a car on finance and repayments to make and insurance costs etc...?

Should jsa pay for that?

Of course not!!!

When you're working, you can spend YOUR money on whatever you want and live the standard of living that YOU are paying for... if you aren't working but living on your own money then again, you can spend it however you want for your lifestyle...


But if you are not working and want to claim benefits... you have to live the basic lifestyle that the basic amount of benefit money allows you to do!!!


Jsa is only going to provide enough for you to cover your basic needs.

It will not provide for you to heat a large house with only you living there... it will not pay for your credit card bills for your large flat screen TV or ps4 or holiday in the sun etc...


So if you cut that £30 gas elec figure you gave in half, then that leaves enough for everything else plus enough food.


That is what the jobcentre would expect... and also what my mum would say!!!


Also... housing benefit would not cover the rent for anything larger and more expensive than a one bedroom flat...

And about the other story... no I didn't see it... but it would be necessary to know exactly what else they are spending their money on that they think is more important than food and gas/elec...


Money should first be spent on these fundamental priority things... then complain about other things that they can no longer afford...

But I'll bet that if the other things are listed then the sympathy would dissappear. ..

It strikes me that when Tommy was on the dole he pissed his money up against the wall and didn't pay his bills.  Now he thinks everyone else is as scummy as that.

My gas and electricity was set up to be deducted automatically from esa payments through 'fuel direct 3rd party deductions' and then the next thing I made sure of having was enough food...


I had to lay off the butler and cleaner and the Bentley had to go back...


And I didn't treat myself to nice new trainers or a new TV or take aways...


And I didn't turn the heating on for a year... just wore an extra jumper when needed and a hat... and enjoyed the heat from the cooker while making a home prepared meal every night...


Maybe if I had spent all my money paying back for a holiday or a wardrobe of new clothes instead and then claimed to have no money for food then sassy would think I was a proper socialist leftie ...!!?

sassy wrote:It strikes me that when Tommy was on the dole he pissed his money up against the wall and didn't pay his bills.  Now he thinks everyone else is as scummy as that.

Really? I don't think Tommy comes across like that at all.
You may not like his views, and I don't like like some of them, but he's not stupid and he can cook - I've tried his recipes and they're good - and he talks a lot about healthy food both here and via pm with me in the past.
He doesn't come across as a liar.

eddie wrote:

sassy wrote:It strikes me that when Tommy was on the dole he pissed his money up against the wall and didn't pay his bills.  Now he thinks everyone else is as scummy as that.

Really? I don't think Tommy comes across like that at all.
You may not like his views, and I don't like like some of them, but he's not stupid  and he can cook - I've tried his recipes and they're good - and he talks a lot about healthy food both here and via pm with me in the past.
He doesn't come across as a liar.

He calls everyone else a liar, like Nicko and Syl, even when they are talking about the experiences of their own children.  He even told Nicko his daughter was probably touching him up for money when she didn't need to.  I would think that you would only think like that if you had either had that done to you or had done it yourself.

Sassy just cannot stand it that I have been one of the poor hard up dole busters that she pretends to care for... and that I tell it how it really is... not how she wants to portray it for political spin and political gain!!!

Nicko and Syl are relaying stories that they have been told and believe to be true... I am talking from my own personal experience!!!

And I have shown the rules and figures in question...


I don't stand to gain from any of this... so why would I be lying...! ! ?

Why would they, but it didn't stop you being rude about their children.  Nicko even told you he had seen his daughter's bank statements, but you carried on being a rude as hell.  So I can only presume that sort of behaviour is what you are used to.

A bank statement will only show you what money is being paid into that account. .. not the reason why other money is not...


Funny how quick you are to say that I am a scumbag scrounger who passed all my money up the wall and didn't pay my bills when it is me who was ill on esa...

Funny how you say everyone is a scumbag scrounger if you have been ill on esa.

A bank statement will only show you what money is being paid into that account. .. not the reason why other money is not...

and that was the point dumb-dumb, you were trying to make out that Nicko's daughter didn't really need the money and was getting paid stuff she wasn't telling him about.

I can well understand why tommy has , by his own admission, spent a good amount of time on the dole....

jobs for the less intellectually gifted are in short supply.......

Lord Foul wrote:I can well understand why tommy has , by his own admission, spent a good amount of time on the dole....

jobs for the less intellectually gifted are in short supply.......

Are you suggesting that people on benefits must be too thick to employ?

sassy wrote:It strikes me that when Tommy was on the dole he pissed his money up against the wall and didn't pay his bills.  Now he thinks everyone else is as scummy as that.

It strikes me that he obviously didn't do that. He's right about JSA - it's not supposed to provide people with luxuries and give people the same standard of living as those who earn money. If it did that, nobody would bother to work.

Lord Foul wrote:Moreover tommy is THICK and didnt, clearly READ THE OP

quote "What you do know is I tried to buy my kids some food and that the EBT machine was down so I couldn't buy that food. I didn't have any cash or my debit card with me. I only had my SNAP card."

in otherwords she had the "state credit available on her "SNAP card"   BUT THE MACHINE TO HANDLE IT WAS DOWN

she didnt have any other way of paying....

cretin.

Then others didn't read that bit either. The woman wasn't saying she didn't have enough money for the shopping, she was saying that she had no way to pay the bill because the machine wasn't working. Some of the stuff she bought wasn't really essential - like peppermints, peach tea, etc.

The story was really about her life in general and how depressing it was that her husband was laid off work just after they'd moved to a new state, and that the house came with the job so they had to move yet again. That's a load of hassle so naturally it's going to piss her off. They have five children so of course it's going to be difficult.

This is why I say that people should save as much as they can whilst they have a good job so they have something to fall back on if times get tough.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:I can well understand why tommy has , by his own admission, spent a good amount of time on the dole....

jobs for the less intellectually gifted are in short supply.......

Are you suggesting that people on benefits must be too thick to employ?

Not at all sweetie, ....but in tommy's case???

Sassy you twat... all I said was that you don't get a sanction for more than 3 months for being late to an appointment at the job centre.

And even that length of time will only be given after a number of shorter sanctions for the same thing.

Plus somebody coukd easily get out of being sanctioned at all if they didn't turn up at all and used one of their 2 allowed sickness periods.

But besides all that... people who are sanctioned can then claim hardship allowance instead for the whole period of sanction.


I believe nicko believes what he's saying to be true... but it sounds to me like there is more to the story than he was being told because of the reasons given above about how the system works.

Tommy Monk wrote:Jsa is only supposed to provide enough money for gas and electricity for one person... not to heat a whoke large house designed for more than one with just one person living there.

Do you think that if someone had a butler or a cook etc then jsa should be enough to carry on paying for them too?

Or if someone has a car on finance and repayments to make and insurance costs etc...?

Should jsa pay for that?

Of course not!!!

When you're working, you can spend YOUR money on whatever you want and live the standard of living that YOU are paying for... if you aren't working but living on your own money then again, you can spend it however you want for your lifestyle...


But if you are not working and want to claim benefits... you have to live the basic lifestyle that the basic amount of benefit money allows you to do!!!


Jsa is only going to provide enough for you to cover your  basic needs.

It will not provide for you to heat a large house with only you living there... it will not pay for your credit card bills for your large flat screen TV or ps4 or holiday in the sun etc...


So if you cut that £30 gas elec figure you gave in half,  then that leaves enough for everything else plus enough food.


That is what the jobcentre would expect... and also what my mum would say!!!


Also... housing benefit would not cover the rent for anything larger and more expensive than a one bedroom flat...

You are wrong on the last point, and most others to be honest....he did get housing benefit for the house he was in, which was not a large house it was a 2 up 2 down Victorian terrace.
He obviously did live a basic life style, so you and your mum need to open your minds up a bit and hear what other peoples experiences are.

Thankfully he is now in a good job and is now living the life he chooses, funded by no one but himself.

Maybe the one in eight people living in the N/W who cannot afford to heat their homes and eat properly are paying the staff too much.

Yes I did answer...


And He must have been renting that house very cheaply... That's all I can say... as the housing benefit maximum now for a one bed flat is £690 a month in my area... while a privately rented one bed flat is around £900 a month.

Housing benefit will only pay the rate for a one bed flat for a single person... regardless of if you had a 2 or 3 or 4 bed house.

The cheapest 2 bed places here at the moment are over £1000 a month.

So are you saying he was renting a 2 bed house for less than a one bedroom flat would cost...! ?

Tommy Monk wrote:Nicko and Syl are relaying stories that they have been told and believe to be true... I am talking from my own personal experience!!!

And I have shown the rules and figures in question...


I don't stand to gain from any of this... so why would I be lying...! ! ?

Nicko's account of his daughters struggles rang very true to me. I am relaying a story I know to be true.
We sat down with our son and worked out his main bills and helped him out when he needed help, like any decent parent does when they can.

For eg an old victorian house in the N/W of England in the middle of winter is freezing cold....if you think £15 pw covers gas and electricity in those conditions you are mistaken.


Other peoples experiences are just as valid as yours....you are being closed minded if you think yours are the only ones that count.

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes I did answer...


And He must have been renting that house very cheaply... That's all I can say... as the housing benefit maximum now for a one bed flat is £690 a month in my area... while a privately rented one bed flat is around £900 a month.

Housing benefit will only pay the rate for a one bed flat for a single person... regardless of if you had a 2 or 3 or 4 bed house.

The cheapest 2 bed places here at the moment are over £1000 a month.

So are you saying he was renting a 2 bed house for less than a one bedroom flat would cost...! ?

You live in London you said, rents in this part of the country are almost half what you quoted.

You are continuously making the same mistake by comparing yourself with everyone else....and thinking your figures apply to everyone else. .

Rents paid in any area are relative to local prices... and in any area, a one bed flat will be cheaper than a 2 bed house... the housing benefit dept will have a maximum payable for a single person being the comparative price of a one bed flat in that area...

So the house must have been within the local maximum amount payable for a one bed flat... otherwise he would have had to pay the difference himself out of jsa...

sassy wrote:Funny how you say everyone is a scumbag scrounger if you have been ill on esa.

A bank statement will only show you what money is being paid into that account. .. not the reason why other money is not...

and that was the point dumb-dumb, you were trying to make out that Nicko's daughter didn't really need the money and was getting paid stuff she wasn't telling him about.

I never said anyone was a scumbag scrounger...

[quote="Tommy Monk"]Rents paid in any area are relative to local prices... and in any area, a one bed flat will be cheaper than a 2 bed house... the housing benefit dept will have a maximum payable for a single person being the comparative price of a one bed flat in that area...

So the house must have been within the local maximum amount payable for a one bed flat... otherwise he would have had to pay the difference himself out of jsa...
/

Well according to you he could have done that and still ate well.

His rent then was well under £500 pcm, standard for 2 bed victorian houses in the area he lived in at that time.

Do you really think one in eight people in this area who are struggling financially are doing so because they are not budgeting wisely? I know of people who work who earn just above the amount they would need to claim benefits, and are finding it really hard to cope.

Not everyone is living like the people do on 'Benefits street' you know. Some people are proud and trying their best to manage on a small income.

To be fair to Tommy, it's not his fault if someone lived in a cold, old house. Those Victorian houses do tend to be cold unless they've been modernised with double glazing, etc.

I'm not sure about how many bedrooms one can claim for. I guess that if a house was below the limit that one person can claim, they can live in a two-bedroom house and claim the benefit.

The amount payable by housing benefit will be different in each area depending on local rents... and the maximum a single person will get is the rate set for a one bed flat... which would be less than the rate for a 2 bed flat/house in same area...

Tommy Monk wrote:The amount payable by housing benefit will be different in each area depending on local rents... and the maximum a single person will get is the rate set for a one bed flat... which would be less than the rate for a 2 bed flat/house in same area...

You would of course expect a one-bedroom flat to be cheaper, but that's not necessarily the case.

The housing benefit caps do refer to the number of bedrooms, but perhaps they should refer to the number of people claiming instead, so if someone can get a two-bedroom house for less than the cap for one bedroom, they're allowed to do so.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes I did answer...


And He must have been renting that house very cheaply... That's all I can say... as the housing benefit maximum now for a one bed flat is £690 a month in my area... while a privately rented one bed flat is around £900 a month.

Housing benefit will only pay the rate for a one bed flat for a single person... regardless of if you had a 2 or 3 or 4 bed house.

The cheapest 2 bed places here at the moment are over £1000 a month.

So are you saying he was renting a 2 bed house for less than a one bedroom flat would cost...! ?

You live in London you said, rents  in this part of the country are almost half what you quoted.

You are continuously making the same mistake by comparing yourself with everyone else....and thinking your figures apply to everyone else. .

Maybe I ask what area you are referring to exactly?

Greater Manchester.

Though why you want to know is a mystery....are you going to google rent prices in the hope that you can prove me wrong......top tip....you cant.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:The amount payable by housing benefit will be different in each area depending on local rents... and the maximum a single person will get is the rate set for a one bed flat... which would be less than the rate for a 2 bed flat/house in same area...

You would of course expect a one-bedroom flat to be cheaper, but that's not necessarily the case.

The housing benefit caps do refer to the number of bedrooms, but perhaps they should refer to the number of people claiming instead, so if someone can get a two-bedroom house for less than the cap for one bedroom, they're allowed to do so.

There are loads of old 2 ups 2 downs round here that are rented out......more than one bedroom flats.

All I know is my son had his rent paid with no question of him moving when he was made redundant.

His son (young teen at the time) stayed over every weekend.....not sure if that made a difference but I doubt it tbh.

His rent was less than half Tommy quoted for a similar place in London.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You would of course expect a one-bedroom flat to be cheaper, but that's not necessarily the case.

The housing benefit caps do refer to the number of bedrooms, but perhaps they should refer to the number of people claiming instead, so if someone can get a two-bedroom house for less than the cap for one bedroom, they're allowed to do so.

There are loads of old 2 ups 2 downs round here that are rented out......more than one bedroom flats.

All I know is my son had his rent paid with no question of him moving when he was made redundant.

His son (young teen at the time) stayed over every weekend.....not sure if that made a difference but I doubt it tbh.

His rent was less than half  Tommy quoted for a similar place in London.

Maybe it was before the rent benefit caps came in, or maybe the house was actually cheaper than an average one-bedroom flat.

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/200008/benefits_and_support/4249/local_housing_allowance/2


These are the current maximum amounts payable for 2015/16.


A single person would only get the one bed rate...


Which is still now much less than the £500 month that you already said your sons rent was.

It would have been even lower before when you said your son was claiming.


So he would have had to pay the difference out of jsa like I said!!!

I said it was a couple of years ago but it was probably longer. I know the second time the workforce was made redundant was just before the Christmas....it was a miserable time for him.

It was before the dreadful bedroom tax came in anyway.

Irrelevant... housing benefit only pays the maximum one bed rate for a single person in private rented accommodation and it has been the same for years and years!

It is only in social housing, where rent costs are much cheaper anyway and much the same as each other regardless of size, where the policy of paying a spare room subsidy was brought in to bring it into line with those in private rdnted sector not beibg able to get larger places paid for and to encourage people who lived in places too big for them to move to smaller places more suitable and free up the larger places for needy families.

Tommy Monk wrote:
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/200008/benefits_and_support/4249/local_housing_allowance/2


These are the current maximum amounts payable for 2015/16.


A single person would only get the one bed rate...


Which is still now much less than the £500 month that you already said your sons rent was.

It would have been even lower before when you said your son was claiming.


So he would have had to pay the difference out of jsa like I said!!!

And like I said he did not.

I have not said what my sons rent was, it was a lot less than £500. I actually said rents in this area was half of London rates.