Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

A young boy runs through a field carrying a Canadian flag, the sun lit behind him as the country’s red and white national colors flap in the wind. Above the photo, large text reads, “Welcome to Canada,” with the Arabic transliteration below: Ahlan wa sahlan. “Welcome.”

This is the cover of Thursday’s Toronto Star, Canada’s largest-circulation newspaper, as the country prepares to welcome the first tranche of Syrian refugees in the newly elected Liberal government’s resettlement program. The front-page photo is accompanied by a heartfelt editorial welcoming the freshly arrived Syrians and briefing them on life in Canada.

“You’ll find the place a little bigger than Damascus or Aleppo, and a whole lot chillier. But friendly for all that. We’re a city that cherishes its diversity; it’s our strength,” reads the editorial. “It’s been a long trek, but you are no longer refugees. Your days of being strangers in a strange land are over.”

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who plans to meet the refugees as they arrive, told the House of Commons on Wednesday that the first plane carrying more than 160 refugees was expected to land from Beirut at 9:15 p.m. Eastern Thursday at Toronto’s international airport. A second plane is scheduled to carry more refugees from Beirut to Montreal on Saturday.

“Resettling refugees demonstrates our commitment to Canadians, and to the world, that Canada understands that we can and must do more,” Trudeau said during the question period in Parliament.

Trudeau’s government committed to resettling 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of February next year, with 10,000 set to arrive by the end of this year. Canadian Immigration Minister John McCallum told reporters at a news conference Wednesday that 11,932 refugee applications were already being processed in Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey — the three countries with the largest populations of Syrian refugees. In preparation for the influx of newcomers, temporary processing centers have been set up at airports in Montreal and Toronto as Canadian authorities transition refugees into permanent housing across the country.

The first wave of Canada’s resettlement program comes as anti-Muslim rhetoric continues to rise in the United States in the wake of terrorist attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, California. On Monday, real estate mogul and Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump proposed “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”

Trump’s comments have been met with both outcry and support in America and mark a major political shift as the nature of Islam, and Muslims in general, becomes one of the domineering topics of the U.S. election cycle so far. A new poll released Wednesday by the Washington-based Brookings Institution found that “American views of Muslims are strikingly partisan.” According to the poll’s findings, 67 percent of Democrats express favorable views of Muslims, contrasted with only 41 percent of Republicans. When asked about Islam in general, 51 percent of Democrats view the religion favorably, compared to 27 percent of Republicans.

Canadians generally have more positive views. Polls in September found that three-quarters of Canadians wanted to accept more refugees into the country. However, a November poll conducted after the Paris attacks and the announcement of the Liberal government’s new policy saw a drop in support, with 51 percent opposing Ottawa’s measures.

Trudeau had made the 25,000-refugee target an important element of his campaign platform as early as last March and doubled down as Canada’s October election approached. Former Prime Minister Stephen Harper of the Conservative Party had maintained a hard line on Syria refugees, claiming national security was more important than the humanitarian crisis. However, popular sentiment began to shift after the photo of a dead Syrian toddler, who had washed ashore in Turkey as his family began to make their way to Canada, grabbed international headlines in September. Yet Harper did not change his tone, deriding the use of the niqab, or Islamic face veil, during a debate and railing against the dangers of Muslim immigration. Trudeau and other Harper critics seized upon this, describing the Conservative leader’s statements as un-Canadian.

In the wake of the Paris attacks that killed 130, the Trudeau government has slowed — but not discarded — the refugee policy that originally planned to bring 25,000 Syrians to Canada by Jan. 1, 2016.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/12/10/welcome-to-canada-where-the-prime-minister-meets-refugees-at-the-airport/?utm_content=buffer12071&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Yay for Justin Trudeau!!!!!!!

by eddie Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:06 pm

Sassy I grew up in London in the 70's and 80's (and still hung around there in the 90's) so I know all about multiculturalism - I don't know anything else! I like it, it doesn't bother me.
Know what bothers me? When I live in an are and within 10 years my local high street has fuck all in the way of any British shops! Every single shop is catered for Eastern Europeans and Muslims.

Think that's fair?
What if that happened to you area? What if all your local shops disappeared and you had to travel outside of it to get simple things? You wouldn't say it out loud
Of course, but you'd be secretly pissed off.

I said back in the 80's, when loads of Spanish towns were getting taken over by Brits emigrating "wow, that's unfair! They're turning Spain into Britain!"

If I moved to France I'd like the fact it was French! That's why I'd want to live there!! That's the whole point!
And yes, if I moved to an area that was all Indian or all African or all polish, then that's my choice isn't it?

It's yet to affect you and so you can be quite holier than thou and look down on people like me who moan, becaeue you're not living where I lived.

I love all things non-English sass, but I want my area to be what it was when I moved there - is that so hard for anyone to understand???

by Guest Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:13 pm

That's the way the world works, shops change all the time. The bit of Colchester Bill lived in changed to Turkish, Polish, Indian and Chinese shops and there are now a lot of 'foreign' shops in Colchester. You are never going to stop that. In a few years time they will change to something else. In the last week in our little town 3 shops have closed and and Polish shop is going to take one of them. The bungalow we are living in now, the last people were Latvian, and there are many of them work in a factory just outisde. Change always happens, nothing ever stands still, and areas that are dumps today will be sought after tomorrow and the other way round. I've never known anywhere stay the same, why would it, people move all the time and shops change to accommodate them.

And I'm most definitely not looking down on you, I simply find it hard to understand, because I was brought up in a multicultral environment and to me, it's not only normal, it's what makes life interesting.

by eddie Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:34 pm

sassy wrote:That's the way the world works, shops change all the time. The bit of Colchester Bill lived in changed to Turkish, Polish, Indian and Chinese shops and there are now a lot of 'foreign' shops in Colchester. You are never going to stop that. In a few years time they will change to something else. In the last week in our little town 3 shops have closed and and Polish shop is going to take one of them. The bungalow we are living in now, the last people were Latvian, and there are many of them work in a factory just outisde. Change always happens, nothing ever stands still, and areas that are dumps today will be sought after tomorrow and the other way round. I've never known anywhere stay the same, why would it, people move all the time and shops change to accommodate them.

And I'm most definitely not looking down on you, I simply find it hard to understand, because I was brought up in a multicultral environment and to me, it's not only normal, it's what makes life interesting.

I'm answering the last part of your post - yes multicultural is wonderful, I always liked it, you know I've dated all colours of the rainbow - but not when I am in the minority in my own country.
That just isn't right.

And let me tell you, most Indians for example, are among the cleanest people I've even lived next to. Pakistanis are often quite filthy. That's a fact (and one shared by many people of al races)
But by the same token, can't bear the white trailer trash tramps either lol

by Original Quill Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:46 pm

eddie wrote:But by the same token, can't bear the white trailer trash tramps either lol

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 Shocked

by Victorismyhero Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:55 pm

Racist Eddie Shocked

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 3489511464

ragga will be along to castigate you soon

by Victorismyhero Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:00 pm

@ Sassy

that great..for you ...

but what part of you and your friends DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to force your multicultural hell on others?

the odd exotic shop is great, FGS I actually managed to find proper FULL FAT dried milk....in an asian shop
and I'm a regular in the local polish shop

but I'd prefer to be able to buy "normal" things as well

I fully see where eddie is comming from

by eddie Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Lord Foul wrote:@ Sassy

that great..for you ...

but what part of you and your friends DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to force your multicultural hell on others?

the odd exotic shop is great, FGS I actually managed to find proper FULL FAT dried milk....in an asian shop
and I'm a regular in the local polish shop

but I'd prefer to be able to buy "normal" things as well

I fully see where eddie is comming from

That's exactly it. I buy things I like from oriental shops, Indian shops just do the best curry powers and polish shops have some really nice biscuits.....

Look the point is, I love to drink tea, but I don't want every other shop selling me tea!

by Ben Reilly Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:51 pm

Is it just me, or is multiculturalism only a "hell" in the UK? The U.S., Australia and other nations are doing great with multiculturalism. In fact, I'd say it's the best thing about the U.S. and the true source of America's strength.

by eddie Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:22 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Is it just me, or is multiculturalism only a "hell" in the UK? The U.S., Australia and other nations are doing great with multiculturalism. In fact, I'd say it's the best thing about the U.S. and the true source of America's strength.

Well you missed my points becasue you haven't addressed them.

by Victorismyhero Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:14 pm

well ben

there are large areas of anchester and birmingham, where especially at night, the westener is "discouraged" from going

there are areas of both where you cant buy a pork chop or bacon sarnie without trvelling 5 miles.. in a city ..wtf is that about??

the truth being that all pork butchers have been threatened out of business in and AROUND those areas..which gives the lie to the nonsense that its "merely" due to lack of custom...even te supermarkets dare not sell the stuff.

then we have the endless miles of curry shops ...and not a proper chippy in sight

and of course they ALL look like beruit on a bad saturday night...

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 2190311264

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 2190311264

but should I care...I stay away from those ghettos, and cities/major towns in general....

but the real bugger is the fact yoiu cant pick up a paper/switch on the telly etc without facing a barrage of (I'm sorry to say this ...lefty) propaganda telling us how we should all be oh so grateful for it all, and how wonderful it is and how utterly evil anyone who doesnt agree with that is...

we are told constantly how good they are for the economy....then the reality leaks out and the figures are shown to be fudged and that really they are not (when ALL costs are taken into account)

even didge , bless his cotton socks, cant wrap his head round the fact that ME...as an individual, am supposed to make an EXTRA effort, to understand someone with a heavy accent...who happens to be dealing with something important concerning me

and fails to undestand the problem lies NOT in the difficulty of understanding, but that if I do have a problem with that...I'm labled a bloody racist by the tit I'm trying to understand

YES we have unintelligible regional accents (try some scottish accents..or worst of all a geordie...) but THEY dont get all antsy when you look at em blank like....and go WOT????? for the fifth time

and I think therin lies one of the MANY problems....

for whatever reason there is a strong perception that THEY...expect US to adapt to THEM...rather than , as it reasonably should be, that THEY adapt to US.

there are a LOT of what at first sight would seem trivial "issues" but are not

(and as an illustration only since its not immigrants (usually) in this case..try a compter help desk ...down a grotty phone line with an asian with a heavy accent on the other end....... Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 1780941361

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 1780941361

thats why I like sky...its usually an irish chap )

I have had issues with doctors in A&E not speaking CLEAR english..it may have been very good english technically, but to my ears it might as well have been martian

now i objected to this since by the same token he clearly did not grasp what I was telling HIM....

i did actually apologise to both the doctor and the charge nurse(though I dont see why I should have) and politely asked to see a doctor that i could understand AND who could understand me...

what did I get ...your a bloody racist....

so I pointed out something from the HRA....

and it went very quiet......

and I got a doctor that spoke and understood clear english....

NOW the first part of that "situation" is forgiveable to an extent.....I understand that accents while readily changed, take some time to do so...

the second however IS NOT....

and it is the slow accumulation, the steady drip drip drip of issues like this and worse that is "multiculural hell"

oh I Know...we need some laws...and rules

and apply them

veya would no doubt agree....

BUT the moment someone suggests such laws and rules the lefty luvvies start sqealing like stuck pigs

and even YOU would be squwaking on about "radicalisation"

how about for instance a law which requires doctors to not only have a good, if not excellent, technical grasp of english, but that they must also pass a spoken test in at least 3 regions ..say norfolk, geordie land and the highlands

(hint ...there is one form of english that WILL be understood in all those places, virtually accent free or at least accent neutral and unambiguous too...)

but I doubt that will find any favour with the multiculturalists...they prefer to allow foreign doctors to kill patients here... Rolling Eyes

and just write it off as "one of those things"

and before you jump on it with "is that all?" no it isnt, there are countless instances of where "multiculturalism" is a failure...
the concept itself is flawed from the start ...well..actually I'll qualify that ... it wasnt ...until islamic culture stuck its tentacles in....

I mean..i quite like the jamaican folks...cheeky, cheerful noisy busy and colourful (dunno about their music.....but at least they have the concept of "octave" so alls good)
I like sikhs
and chinese folk
(even IF their music is based on a 10 note interval ...and hence sounds like a train wreck in a boiler factory)

hell though you have to wring it out of me, I even like eastern europeans (especially some of their food...just DONT ask me to try sauerkraut, or its equivalent...yetch)
and those guys REALLY know how to hold a piss up (think polish white spirit)

if I think about it I even like some "travelling folk" (far too few "real" romany's about these days Sad

I look for their way marks..but so so rarely see them)

but you see....none of them expect ME to make any "adaption" for them

there are no "ist" groups, seeking to impose their ways...and more importantly reject "our" ways

none of the above object to me drinking alcohol or play hell about serving me when they are on a till and I come with a bottle of calvados
none object to my daughter going out on the razzle in her skimpys
etc

now which group does things like that...and stands there with its nose in the air in faux indignation??? mmmmm????

by Victorismyhero Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:16 pm

whilst "multiculturalism" can work
it requires BOTH sides to have a bit of slack

unfortunately in this instance one side doesnt have any, being bound to a set of primitive beleifs that cannot drag itself into the 21st century...

I am afraid you have to face facts ben

there may be such a thing as "multiculturalism"

BUT
there is also such a thing as cultural incompatibility too....

by Original Quill Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:23 am

Lord Foul wrote:well ben

there are large areas of anchester and birmingham, where especially at night, the westener is "discouraged" from going

there are areas of both where you cant buy a pork chop or bacon sarnie without trvelling 5 miles.. in a city ..wtf is that about??

the truth being that all pork butchers have been threatened out of business in and AROUND those areas..which gives the lie to the nonsense that its "merely" due to lack of custom...even te supermarkets dare not sell the stuff.

then we have the endless miles of curry shops ...and not a proper chippy in sight

and of course they ALL look like beruit on a bad saturday night...

but should I care...I stay away from those ghettos, and cities/major towns in general....

but the real bugger is the fact yoiu cant pick up a paper/switch on the telly etc without facing a barrage of (I'm sorry to say this ...lefty) propaganda telling us how we should all be oh so grateful for it all, and how wonderful it is and how utterly evil anyone who doesnt agree with that is...

we are told constantly how good they are for the economy....then the reality leaks out and the figures are shown to be fudged and that really they are not (when ALL costs are taken into account)

even didge , bless his cotton socks, cant wrap his head round the fact that ME...as an individual, am supposed to make an EXTRA effort, to understand someone with a heavy accent...who happens to be dealing with something important concerning me

and fails to undestand the problem lies NOT in the difficulty of understanding, but that if I do have a problem with that...I'm labled a bloody racist by the tit I'm trying to understand

YES we have unintelligible regional accents (try some scottish accents..or worst of all a geordie...) but THEY dont get all antsy when you look at em blank like....and go WOT????? for the fifth time

and I think therin lies one of the MANY problems....

for whatever reason there is a strong perception that THEY...expect US to adapt to THEM...rather than , as it reasonably should be, that THEY adapt to US.

there are a LOT of what at first sight would seem trivial "issues" but are not

(and as an illustration only since its not immigrants (usually) in this case..try a compter help desk ...down a grotty phone line with an asian with a heavy accent on the other end....... thats why I like sky...its usually an irish chap )

I have had issues with doctors in A&E not speaking CLEAR english..it may have been very good english technically, but to my ears it might as well have been martian

now i objected to this since by the same token he clearly did not grasp what I was telling HIM....

i did actually apologise to both the doctor and the charge nurse(though I dont see why I should have) and politely asked to see a doctor that i could understand AND who could understand me...

what did I get ...your a bloody racist....

so I pointed out something from the HRA....

and it went very quiet......

and I got a doctor that spoke and understood clear english....

NOW the first part of that "situation" is forgiveable to an extent.....I understand that accents while readily changed, take some time to do so...

the second however IS NOT....

and it is the slow accumulation, the steady drip drip drip of issues like this and worse that is "multiculural hell"

oh I Know...we need some laws...and rules

and apply them

veya would no doubt agree....

BUT the moment someone suggests such laws and rules the lefty luvvies start sqealing like stuck pigs

and even YOU would be squwaking on about "radicalisation"

how about for instance a law which requires doctors to not only have a good, if not excellent, technical grasp of english, but that they must also pass a spoken test in at least 3 regions ..say norfolk, geordie land and the highlands

(hint ...there is one form of english that WILL be understood in all those places, virtually accent free or at least accent neutral and unambiguous too...)

but I doubt that will find any favour with the multiculturalists...they prefer to allow foreign doctors to kill patients here... and just write it off as "one of those things"

and before you jump on it with "is that all?" no it isnt, there are countless instances of where "multiculturalism" is a failure...
the concept itself is flawed from the start ...well..actually I'll qualify that ... it wasnt ...until islamic culture stuck its tentacles in....

I mean..i quite like the jamaican folks...cheeky, cheerful noisy busy and colourful (dunno about their music.....but at least they have the concept of "octave" so alls good)
I like sikhs
and chinese folk
(even IF their music is based on a 10 note interval ...and hence sounds like a train wreck in a boiler factory)

hell though you have to wring it out of me, I even like eastern europeans (especially some of their food...just DONT ask me to try sauerkraut, or its equivalent...yetch)
and those guys REALLY know how to hold a piss up (think polish white spirit)

if I think about it I even like some "travelling folk" (far too few "real" romany's about these days I look for their way marks..but so so rarely see them)

but you see....none of them expect ME to make any "adaption" for them

there are no "ist" groups, seeking to impose their ways...and more importantly reject "our" ways

none of the above object to me drinking alcohol or play hell about serving me when they are on a till and I come with a bottle of calvados
none object to my daughter going out on the razzle in her skimpys
etc

now which group does things like that...and stands there with its nose in the air in faux indignation??? mmmmm????

And with that, Granpa's nurse wrapped his blanket tightly round his shoulders and wheeled him off in the direction of the bedroom........

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 Blanket-old-man-21815816

by eddie Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:54 am

How patronising Quill. You just dismissed Vics concerns and points without even registering them.

He's saying, "I WANT TO BE ABLE TO WALK ABOUT, DRINK, BE UNDERSTOOD AND NOT BE IN THE MONORITY IN MY OWN COUNTRY"

Let me ask you and Benji a question:
How you gonna feel when all of those lovely customs and traditions of the USA, start slowly being apologised for, phased out and changed ever so slightly or completely?

Actually don't bother answering: it'll be an evasion or a lie....not to me, to yourselves.

Great post Vic. I get it. But then, I live here.

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:09 pm

yeah well eddie

quill just demonstarted that actually he recognises what i'm saying and has no answer because I'm quite correct

simple things like

it is up to the migrant/refugee to learn to speak clear plain english....more so if they are in a critical job
NOT up to me to some how learn 25 different accents

the migrant has NO right to complain about those things that are part of out normal daily life...like having a beer
or the girls in their minis on a night out

If they dont like it (and they know well enough about how things go here BEFORE they come here) what part of DONT BLOODY come. and most certainly DONT come here and expect to change things.

quill is just taking the standard ignorant lefty position of uh oh...beaten into a corner...enter slightly sarcastic patronising dismissal mode, and is doing so with NO knowlege of what I'm describing

since if HE couldnt understand the doctor...he would probably sue the practice...we dont have that option

by nicko Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:22 pm

You should by now, Quill is not of the real world.

by Major Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:45 pm

Multiculturalism in the USA, don't make me lay.

The different migrants are at each others throats and have their own no go ghetto ares.

A few years back I spent 2 months in Vegas and Mexicans in general were looked on a dogs, they were detested and barred from many clubs.

by eddie Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:52 pm

Stormee wrote:Multiculturalism in the USA, don't make me lay.

The different migrants are at each others throats and have their own no go ghetto ares.

A few years back I spent 2 months in Vegas and Mexicans in general were looked on a dogs, they were detested and barred from many clubs.

Perhaps it's different where Ben and quill,live becasue apparently, Americans are so "okay!" with overcrowding and immigration..... Rolling Eyes

USA is no different to the UK - people are people, and going by the few Americans I've ever spoken to on holidays, they are sick of being told how to feel and think.

Oh and no one I met last year, actually liked Obama.
I was quite surprised by that.

by Original Quill Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:54 pm

eddie wrote:How patronising Quill. You just dismissed Vics concerns and points without even registering them.

He's saying, "I WANT TO BE ABLE TO WALK ABOUT, DRINK, BE UNDERSTOOD AND NOT BE IN THE MONORITY IN MY OWN COUNTRY"

Let me ask you and Benji a question:
How you gonna feel when all of those lovely customs and traditions of the USA, start slowly being apologised for, phased out and changed ever so slightly or completely?

Actually don't bother answering: it'll be an evasion or a lie....not to me, to yourselves.

Great post Vic. I get it. But then, I live here.

I thought it was really appropriate. If I had said what my opinion was, it would have been perfectly OK. But to put it into artistic expression, you call it patronizing? Silly.

Vic's post is a classic old man complaining about the new-fangled world and lamenting the way it used to be. There now...that's the same sentiment put into words. You just don't like anyone having an opinion other than yours.

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:59 pm

no quill we dont like morons who have no answers to valid points

what you are doing there of course is trolling, but then thats no surprise is it

full of fancy words and no ideas

you are in fact a posting example of the maxim that intelligence doesnt involve common sense OR wisdom

by Original Quill Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:00 pm

eddie wrote:yeah well eddie

quill just demonstarted that actually he recognises what i'm saying and has no answer because I'm quite correct

There, you see eddie? Actually, I do agree, but I don't approve.

The world is changing. New people are emerging into our lives. New-fangled TVs, automobiles, Wi-Fi's, restaurants and foods. And the young look at it wide-eyed and amazed...while the old look at it and lament how the world was tougher in their day, they are better than you for it, and in general, a pox on you all! It's the classic contrast between the young and the old.

I don't disagree with Vic. I just try to stay on the other side. But I don't argue. I just express my opinion.

by Original Quill Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:35 pm

Lord Foul wrote:no quill we dont like morons who have no answers to valid points

what you are doing there of course is trolling, but then thats no surprise is it

full of fancy words and no ideas

you are in fact a posting example of the maxim that intelligence doesnt involve common sense OR wisdom

What you saw before is the old man opinion, cursing the world and remembering a better day. "The world is going to hell in a hand-basked, and the lefties are the ones who are to blame." It was all in the speech in the film, The American President:

President Andrew Shepherd wrote:He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. You gather a group of middle-aged, middle-class, middle-income voters who remember with longing an easier time, and you talk to them about family and American values and character.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112346/quotes

And, what you see now is the anger at being called out......

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 Grumpy-old-man

In repsonse, I offer the ending to the speech:

President Andrew Shepherd wrote:We've got serious problems, and we need serious people, and if you want to talk about character, Bob, you'd better come at me with more than a burning flag and a membership card. If you want to talk about character and American values, fine. Just tell me where and when, and I'll show up. This is a time for serious people, Bob, and your fifteen minutes are up.

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 President-andrew-shepherd

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:00 pm

still no answers to the few examples where problems lie??

I dont care HOW young...NO-ONE is going to learn 25 different (at least) asian/middle eastern accents...are they

and likewise the whole "what we do insults them" but we are not allowed to be insulted back, whilst at the same time we have to give in to what insults them argument

see quill you are fiull of fancy words that actually mean nothing ...sound bytes, weasle words, and rubbish quite frankly

you manage the bipolar world of the lefty quite astoundingly...

I mean you manage in the same paragraph...sentence even.... to agree and disagree

you attempt to convey acceptance of the point whilst at the same time attempting a dismissive "put down"

you on one hand argue against "ad hominem" and yet are the worlds best practitioner of same...

you are, in your pathetic lefty way very fond of being abusive...like passive agressive, only passive abusive.

by Original Quill Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:22 pm

Lord Foul wrote:still no answers to the few examples where problems lie??

I dont care HOW young...NO-ONE is going to learn 25 different (at least) asian/middle eastern accents...are they

and likewise the whole "what we do insults them" but we are not allowed to be insulted back, whilst at the same time we have to give in to what insults them argument

see quill you are fiull of fancy words that actually mean nothing ...sound bytes, weasle words, and rubbish quite frankly

It would help if you understood those words. But that comes with practice, practice, practice...

The RW is not used to practicing reason. Thus it is not used to understanding the components of reason...words and phrases. To the RW, words are little puzzle pieces that fit into short, thoughtless jingles: you are a flip-floper or pinko, commie sympathizer.

And now we come full-circle. People of different cultures and different languages come along, and you are offended that they don't do the understanding part for you.

Victor wrote:you manage the bipolar world of the lefty quite astoundingly...

I mean you manage in the same paragraph...sentence even.... to agree and disagree

you attempt to convey acceptance of the point whilst at the same time attempting a dismissive "put down"

Therein lies the clue that you don't understand...and don't try to understand.

Victor wrote:you on one hand argue against "ad hominem" and yet are the worlds best practitioner of same...

you are, in your pathetic lefty way very fond of being abusive...like passive agressive, only passive abusive.

...and it's all the "lefty's" fault that you don't understand. Well! It's someone's fault...just not your's, eh?

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 3201073460

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 3201073460

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:05 pm

as I suspected...meaningless drivel

and why am I not surprised....

becasue you are yet another of those odious sort that blair belongs to, along with most of our labour party

you are the classic "champagne socialist"

and belong to perhaps the ONE section of society whos voice I would have silenced

why
becasue your opinions are flawed and compromised from the start
you are, if we beleive what you say a lawyer (and a good one it would seem) therefor you cannot except in some abstract theoretical way be "left", since you are by definition "well heeled"

ideas like social justice are mere theoretical playthings to you, to be compared in some bizzare game of happy families with values such as greed, and oppression.

I would also point out that lawyers by their very existance are facilitators of injustice. If people like you were not allowed to play their little secretive word games, and the letter of the law actually meant what is said the you would be out of a job, since in reality YOUR job is no different to that of a priest or imman
since you are soley there to "interpret" the words those in power have twisted into incomprehensibilty.

although I think they are a bit like two tiles short of a roof, I think these "freemen on the land actually have a point vis "common law and law of the sea" at least here in britain...

any way ...how about YOU suggesting sense here

are you really suggesting I should learn ...not another umpteen languages...but also another unopteen accents?

erm...wrong

the HRA has something to say about this

and we actually do try to work the HRA

unlike over your way where your civil rights (or rather the implementation of them) is /are a bloody joke...

vis the problem of not being able to understand that paki(stanni) doctor....

"the right is implied that

you have the right to have your affairs, both CIVIL or criminal conducted in a language (and by extension dialect/accent) that you can understand, or to have an interpreter PROVIDED for you"

NOW that is an interpretaion of various effects of the HRA since non of that is explicitly laid out in The HRA vis "civil " affairs

however it appears that courts can and indeed do extend that to "civil matters"

mopreover just HOW MANY languages do you think I should learn
i speak

basic
fortran
logo
python
some c++

Sindarin and
a bit of quenya

french
german

though badly out of practice with both....no need to use em now I'm retired

some dutch
some italian

understand "bits" of spanish
greek
latin
and can manage the civilities of the day in welsh

I'll be damned if I'm adding any more to the list

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:08 pm

and people like quill wonder why my response to "me no speekee inglish" is well fuck off and learn then

by Guest Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:13 pm

Funny how other peoples are supposed to do what we dont.

This might be from 2011, but it's still true today:

Most Brits in Spain say no gracias to integration

G eorge Orwell wrote in 1938: "The only way I could get along was to carry everywhere a small dictionary which I whipped out of my pocket at moments of crisis. But I would sooner be a foreigner in Spain than in most countries. How easy it is to make friends in Spain!"
More than 70 years after the publication of Homage to Catalonia, a million of Orwell's fellow countrymen have followed his lead, although their motivation for coming to Spain may be different. What Orwell would make of this vast diaspora – the largest contingent of foreigners in Spain and 2% of the population – would certainly merit a book in itself, although it might not be a homage.
The popular image of British expats here is of either reclusive retirees watching EastEnders on satellite TV, a Daily Mail on their lap, glass of cheap wine at their elbow and a full English breakfast in their belly or of boozed-up, drugged-up, football-loving young ravers.
The annual report by all of Britain's consulates around the world partly supports this image: Spain tops the list in numbers of expat deaths (1,786) and arrests (2,012). A brief recent stroll through Benidorm found English fans watching football, drinking Tetley's and eating haddock and chips. But not everyone conforms to the stereotype.
In May, there will be Britons running for office in local elections and it is estimated that expats could hold the balance of power in as many as 19 towns in the Valencia region, which includes the Alicante province.
George Thomas, a much-travelled Glaswegian, is a member of the PSOE, the Spanish socialist party, in Xabia on the Costa Blanca, which will have a number of expats on its candidates' list, although he is not under any illusions about the difficulties of integration. "There are some fully integrated Brits who speak Spanish but many live in an almost sealed community," he said. Earlier this year he gave a talk at the local Casa de Cultura on the subject and pointed out that more than half of the residents of the town were foreigners but only 12% had registered to vote.
Journalist Benny Davis, who writes for the expat paper, EuroWeekly News, said: "Brits tends to live in a bubble. With more and more information available in English, there's less reason to learn Spanish and, as a consequence, less opportunity to understand the local culture. Many residents speak no more than 10 Spanish words in an average week – usually restaurant Spanish – and they pride themselves on 'getting by'.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/europe-news

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:43 pm

dubious diversionary tactics sassy, you prove nothing except you are quite capable of using twisted statistics to suit your points

how many of those expats are doctors...getting by on 10 words a week??
how many of those expats , now so busy in politic over there get by on 10 words a week

the truth is a few piss heads do, and the rest are tourists

YOU may think I fell out of the christmas tree...but such tactics dont work with me...

NOW

what part of I dont give a flying f**k if abdul up the road doesnt speak english...he and I have nothing to discuss....AT ALL

however if my doctor is Mr Khan I have every right to expect that HE will speak not only good english...but COMPREHENSIBLE english too

same with the pharmacist

and every other "professional i have the need or misfortune to have to converse with

If I went to live in another country...i would be ashamed if I didnt at least speak the language, to a reasonable degree of comprehensibilty, within a month, and properly within six months...

and i would expect "reasonable" ability to write the language within a year.

by Guest Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:46 pm

I'm pointing out that all people's, including us, do it.

I can remember having exactly the same problem as you with Indian doctors when my eldest daughter was tiny, well over 40 years ago, they soon overcame it. It's actually partially due to the government because our own doctors are going abroad because of the way they are bing treated, we had that problem then as well.

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:56 pm

sassy wrote:I'm pointing out that all people's, including us, do it.

I can remember having exactly the same problem as you with Indian doctors when my eldest daughter was tiny, well over 40 years ago, they soon overcame it. It's actually partially due to the government because our own doctors are going abroad because of the way they are bing treated, we had that problem then as well.

yeah but i bet when you went "WOT???" for the 5th time and asked for a bit of help...you wernt subject to snidey "racist" jibes a habit that has arisen thanks to your political persuasion

see sassy when I speak to a doctor...i EXPECT, no ifs , no buts and NO wriggle room, that he WILL understand me...and that I am able, without ANY shadow of doubt, to understand HIM
first time no messing

actually...I expect THAT from ANY professional I have to deal with

by Guest Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:07 pm

I didn't go 'what'. I said very politely 'I sorry, I don't understand you and I need to, so can you make sure I do understand'. He then went and got a nurse who make sure I did understand and we all parted on good terms. The next time I saw him, his English was much better.

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:13 pm

today you would be looked at like dirt

as quill so absolutely demonstrated...from the lefty POV YOU would be at fault for not understanding

by eddie Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:14 pm

sassy wrote:I didn't go 'what'. I said very politely 'I sorry, I don't understand you and I need to, so can you make sure I do understand'. He then went and got a nurse who make sure I did understand and we all parted on good terms. The next time I saw him, his English was much better.

The next time you saw him???? How long was the time between your two visits?
Sorry but I'm with Vic on this: it's diabolical that Drs are non-English speaking - their job is paramount to people's health and fitness!!!

by Guest Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:15 pm

eddie wrote:
sassy wrote:I didn't go 'what'. I said very politely 'I sorry, I don't understand you and I need to, so can you make sure I do understand'. He then went and got a nurse who make sure I did understand and we all parted on good terms. The next time I saw him, his English was much better.

The next time you saw him???? How long was the time between your two visits?
Sorry but I'm with Vic on this: it's diabolical that Drs are non-English speaking - their job is paramount to people's health and fitness!!!

About 3 months. Of course doctors should speak English, but we wouldn't be taking so many foreign doctors on if we didn't have a government who are driving our own doctors away.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/23/new-doctors-leave-nhs-for-better-life-abroad

by eddie Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:19 pm

sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:
sassy wrote:I didn't go 'what'. I said very politely 'I sorry, I don't understand you and I need to, so can you make sure I do understand'. He then went and got a nurse who make sure I did understand and we all parted on good terms. The next time I saw him, his English was much better.

The next time you saw him???? How long was the time between your two visits?
Sorry but I'm with Vic on this: it's diabolical that Drs are non-English speaking - their job is paramount to people's health and fitness!!!

About 3 months. Of course doctors should speak English, but we wouldn't be taking so many foreign doctors on if we didn't have a government who are driving our own doctors away.

In three months he had time to brush up on his English that much?
Then he should set an example to the rest of the non-speaking English (including some of the English I might add).

That goes too, for people who pick up our calls when we ring our banks, as let's face it, we only call our banks when we really need to, so we really need to speak to someone who can catch our every word and we can catch theirs.
I rmemeebr one lady in Bangkedesh, or somewhere told me my transfer would be in my account on "June the 200" Rolling Eyes

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:20 pm

exactly Eddie and I apply the same to other professionals...imaging having a solicitor you couldnt communicate properly with....might as well save money and represent your self...the result will be the same either way>

like I say if abdul up the road cant speak comprehensible english THAT is HIS problem....
the likelyhood of me wanting or having to speak to him is remote indeed and the possibility that we have anything resembling a mutual interest in anything is as remote as the moon, so........ Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 2190311264

by eddie Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:23 pm

Well not entirely true Vic, you could have loads in common if you could communicate!

The point is, and I think most of us agree, you should speak the language of the country you reside in.
Easter Europeans do an excellent job of this and they teach their children too.

by Guest Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:26 pm

Lord Foul wrote:exactly Eddie and I apply the same to other professionals...imaging having a solicitor you couldnt communicate properly with....might as well save money and represent your self...the result will be the same either way>

like I say if abdul up the road cant speak comprehensible english THAT is HIS problem....
the likelyhood of me wanting or having to speak to him is remote indeed and the possibility that we have anything resembling a mutual interest in anything is as remote as the moon, so........

And you moan they don't integrate. What hypocrisy!

Sent my brother and wife in Newcastle their chrissy present last week, they weren't in, his mate next door took it in. That's the mate who is Muslim and sends him a Christmas card.

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:58 pm

two of my neigbours shoot...

three others fish

2 more of them are caravanners

now...most Muslims dont shoot...and NONE i have heard of shoot for food.....hunted and shot food is I understand not halal
those that do shoot are either clay shooters or shoot for the pleasure of killing...not something I wish to encourage

I have yet to see a Muslim on the bank of a river quietly fishing????

and none to my knowlege are caravanners

now, aside from "gossip" (which I dont get involved in....) just what???? could we, find to talk about?

besides i'd probably "offend him" in the first 30 seconds due to me breaching some unfathomable taboo...

and then you would accuse me of radicalising him..... scratch

by veya_victaous Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:08 pm

Victor's Attitude is the problem,
cause then Abdul just talks with his cousins and his kids talk with their cousins and there is no integration and you end up with Ghettos.

Locals have to take the time and effort to 'teach' them how to communicate with the locals there is only so much you can learn form a book.... this attitude of they should just know and learn it before coming is why everyone thinks the French Are Dicks..
Victor You sound like a French Peasant
Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 859118666

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 859118666

Besides most of the UK is almost impossible to understand with your crazy 'accents' that change when you take a short walk up the road geek

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:15 pm

except veya you dozy pillock, if you have any education at all you speak at least 2 forms of english, your local area and queens or "standard" english....which is accent neutral .....

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:28 pm

veya_victaous wrote:Victor's Attitude is the problem,
cause then Abdul just talks with his cousins and his kids talk with their cousins and there is no integration and you end up with Ghettos.

Locals have to take the time and effort to 'teach' them how to communicate with the locals there is only so much you can learn form a book.... this attitude of they should just know and learn it before coming is why everyone thinks the French Are Dicks..
Victor You sound like a French Peasant

Besides most of the UK is almost impossible to understand with your crazy 'accents' that change when you take a short walk up the road

well if someone is willing to pay me £25+ per hour as a teacher of english as a second language...............

thing is veya...WTF would I have to say to him?

beyond "morning" or HI?????

it is absolutely unlikely he has any interests that coincide with mine

I am unlikely to offer him my services as a carpenter/joiner, given that my 4 previous business interactions with gentlemen from that group ended badly and me out of pocket

Welcome to Canada, Where the Prime Minister Meets Refugees at the Airport - Page 2 2190311264

by Guest Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:33 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Victor's Attitude is the problem,
cause then Abdul just talks with his cousins and his kids talk with their cousins and there is no integration and you end up with Ghettos.

Locals have to take the time and effort to 'teach' them how to communicate with the locals there is only so much you can learn form a book.... this attitude of they should just know and learn it before coming is why everyone thinks the French Are Dicks..
Victor You sound like a French Peasant

Besides most of the UK is almost impossible to understand with your crazy 'accents' that change when you take a short walk up the road

well if someone is willing to pay me £25+ per hour as a teacher of english as a second language...............

thing is veya...WTF would I have to say to him?

beyond "morning" or HI?????

it is absolutely unlikely he has any interests that coincide with mine

I am unlikely to offer him my services as a carpenter/joiner, given that my 4 previous business interactions with gentlemen from that group ended badly and me out of pocket

I'm just sitting here shaking my head in bemusement. What would you say to him? Because he doesn't go fishing etc? What would you say to anyone else who doesn't go fishing? How's the family? Bloody awful weather isn't it? etc etc etc. Sheeeeesh!

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:41 pm

sassy wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:

well if someone is willing to pay me £25+ per hour as a teacher of english as a second language...............

thing is veya...WTF would I have to say to him?

beyond "morning" or HI?????

it is absolutely unlikely he has any interests that coincide with mine

I am unlikely to offer him my services as a carpenter/joiner, given that my 4 previous business interactions with gentlemen from that group ended badly and me out of pocket

I'm just sitting here shaking my head in bemusement. What would you say to him? Because he doesn't go fishing etc? What would you say to anyone else who doesn't go fishing? How's the family? Bloody awful weather isn't it? etc etc etc. Sheeeeesh!

small talk..airy persiflage

ye gods sassy, how quaint...

you need ALL those words to do that

no wonder south of Stafford the country is a mess soo primitive

havnt you yet realised that the northern greeting "mornin" ACTUALLY means "oh I say old bean, jolly old day isnt it, how are you, hows the missus. kids ok? right then see you later have a good un"

and the response "mornin" in return means " and a good day to you too sir, yes I'm fine, the missus is positively glowing and the kids are being monsters as usual. I hope you too are well and may your day be a pleasant one"

by veya_victaous Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:47 pm

Lord Foul wrote:except veya you dozy pillock, if you have any education at all you speak at least 2 forms of english, your local area and queens or "standard" english....which is accent neutral .....

I find it amusing, My new house is 232km away
people more or less sound the same Rolling Eyes

in fact you have to go over a thousand km from Sydney to get any real difference and even then it is just an 'older' accent, pre-multiculturalism.

by Guest Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:52 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
sassy wrote:

I'm just sitting here shaking my head in bemusement. What would you say to him? Because he doesn't go fishing etc? What would you say to anyone else who doesn't go fishing? How's the family? Bloody awful weather isn't it? etc etc etc. Sheeeeesh!

small talk..airy persiflage

ye gods sassy, how quaint...

you need ALL those words to do that

no wonder south of Stafford the country is a mess soo primitive

havnt you yet realised that the northern greeting "mornin" ACTUALLY means "oh I say old bean, jolly old day isnt it, how are you, hows the missus. kids ok? right then see you later have a good un"

and the response "mornin" in return means " and a good day to you too sir, yes I'm fine, the missus is positively glowing and the kids are being monsters as usual. I hope you too are well and may your day be a pleasant one"

Nothing 'quaint' about it, it's called interaction and socialisation, if you just grunt 'morning' you don't let anyone take the next step.

Mine is normally allow the lines of 'Morning, just missed the bloody bus, now I'm gonna get drowned'!

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:02 pm

seriously...apart from those with common interests on my road, I couldnt tell you anything about folks more than 5 or six doors up or down...and those who I do know through those interests actually spoke to me on seeing me tansferring fishing or shooting gear into my vehicle. one of the caravanners lives just opposite me..and the other asked me to use my landrover to recover his ditched caravan about 40 miles away....since his car wasnt "man enough" to pull it out so thats how I got to know him...subsequently I did a lot of the repairs needed...seeing as how caravans are largely a fiendish form of carpentry with a skin on.....

by Guest Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:06 pm

Me, I talk to everyone, whether they want to or not lol. If I'm on the bus I end up with people telling me their troubles.

by veya_victaous Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:13 pm

Lord Foul wrote:whilst "multiculturalism" can work
it requires BOTH sides to have a bit of slack

unfortunately in this instance one side doesnt have any, being bound to a set of primitive beleifs that cannot drag itself into the 21st century...

I am afraid you have to face facts ben

there may be such a thing as "multiculturalism"

BUT
there is also such a thing as cultural incompatibility too....

And there is the rub

The only real difference in the UK over the other English speaking western nations, is the UK British Anglo.

the Aussie Anglo, Canadian Anglo, New Zealand Anglo and US Anglo do not have these problems with many of the same as well as other races.

So logically as the only difference is the British Anglo they are the issue.
it is time that the British Culture Drag itself into the 21st century..

You Can Start Be Removing the Primitive belief that Muslims are any more bound by their primitive religion than Christians Rolling Eyes

But it raises another question....
What do you care for? Sounds like you are hardly going to have much interaction with anybody Suspect

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:32 pm

thats up to them,

me ..I'd probably tell you to put a sock in it

or saying something polite like ffs missus dont you ever shut up

not that I go by bus often...
and I dont engage folks in conversation...if I HAVE to go by bus..if its a short journey I use the time for a bit of quiet contemplation
and if its a long run...as a chance for a good nap....

I dont load my troubles onto random other people, and quite frankly I dont want theirs.

by Victorismyhero Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:55 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:whilst "multiculturalism" can work
it requires BOTH sides to have a bit of slack

unfortunately in this instance one side doesnt have any, being bound to a set of primitive beleifs that cannot drag itself into the 21st century...

I am afraid you have to face facts ben

there may be such a thing as "multiculturalism"

BUT
there is also such a thing as cultural incompatibility too....

And there is the rub

The only real difference in the UK over the other English speaking western nations, is the UK British Anglo.

the Aussie Anglo, Canadian Anglo, New Zealand Anglo and US Anglo do not have these problems with many of the same as well as other races.

So logically as the only difference is the British Anglo they are the issue.
it is time that the British Culture Drag itself into the 21st century..

You Can Start Be Removing the Primitive belief that Muslims are any more bound by their primitive religion than Christians

wrong, absolutely wrong...

I dont relly care what "christians" are doing in umbongo land or wherever or come to that what Muslims are doing there either

HERE in the UK christianity is not exactly an issue
Islam Is

it doesnt HAVE to be...but the cure for that is in THEIR hands...not ours

But it raises another question....
What do you care for? Sounds like you are hardly going to have much interaction with anybody

I concern myself with my family and a few close friends...

I see a few folks from around the village from time to time..if I can be arsed to nip down to the local shops
and I see the yummy mummy's of my grandson and grandaughters peers when I take them to school once a week but i dont really count them as "friends"...merely people with whom I'm aquainted with.

mostly though its me n the missus and the dogs..out and about walking in the "quiet spaces of the world"
or just me n my hunting dogs out in the country...ahh...quiet....(and the ocaisional loud noise)
do you know...me n a shooting buddy I do sometimes go with , can walk for an entire day without so much as a couple of words between us, except for the inevitable .."time for a cuppa" or "good shot mate", we both like and appreciate quiet...companiable silence its called.....

I dont want folks rabbitin on all day "peckin me 'ead" as the saying goes......

i speak fairly often with those neighbours nearest, but I'll be damned if Im walking 100 yards JUST to make meaningless badinage with someone who quite likely wants to just get on with their life, and not listen to me rabbitin on....

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