Muslim Kicked Off Bus

by Major Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

For Looking Shifty.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6793971/National-Express-race-row-passenger-Driver-asked-me-to-get-off-because-Im-a-Muslim-and-I-felt-humiliated.html

Better be safe than sorry.

by Victorismyhero Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:15 pm

again the question remains unanswered

I mean didge YOU couldnt even offer the kid any "spiritual comfort"

just a lesson in politics

and perhaps

tough luck kid...shit happens??

by Victorismyhero Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:17 pm

i mean...what would you do to ensure that kid didnt become an ardent R/Wer

do as they do now ....??

eh?

monitor him and black mark his school record for every "UN PC " thought??

label him a "racist"?

or what???

by Victorismyhero Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:21 pm

but...whatever didge...I'll give you this ...at least you replied to that thorny question...It seems no one else has the nads to try it?

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:05 pm

The point is Victor, to me it is the fear of the type of death that can come about through terrorism, that is fueling this fear. Though if some had seen the victims of car crashes of people run over, I am sure it would but the willies up them.

The reality is again thousands die each year from traffic accidents, which as we both know dwarfs any murders and even more so gun murders. The number of murders dwarfs the number killed in terrorist attacks.

I mean because we know a certain group commits a number of these attacks is making some only chose to target blame through suspicion, where again they do not fear a far greater risk through the possibilities given.

I totally get where people are coming from and to me the regressives are naffing people off with all the defensive bull that seeks to deflect away from the growing problem. I so get that Police have to arrest those who they deem as a possible suspect and your other thread is spot on. I mean they are complaing of a 35% charge rate, which I bet is far better than any arrest of any ethnic or religious group being arressted. So the argument this would draw more to radicalisation is to me shambolic. Its not like some groups that countless are stopped and searched and few people are actually charged. Hence the absurdity of the article, I mean that is over one third a success rate, which needs to be compared to other arrests.

The real joke is that if in an actual Muslim country, they would be thrown in jail with little chance of a fair trial, if suspected of terrorism and likley to be execuited by some onthe weakest charge. So 35% to me is a very successful rate even more compared to other groups charged. I mean a couple examples of wrongful arrests to say it means they are then going to radiclaise, is daft, when we have a problem with extremism. I do not see all the other wrongly people charged then go onto commit terrorism, so such a charge is false. It is other apsects that I have stated before around naratives from within the Muslim community itself that creates resentment and hate. That is what these reports fail to grasp as seen many other people wrongfully charged do not go on to join terrorist groups.

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:24 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It wasn't just the man's appearance though was it? It was his insistence that he kept bags with him, and his rudeness when asked to put them in the hold. Some people became uncomfortable so they alerted the driver to their fears, they didn't tell the man to get off.

I am not concerned if he was kicked oiff for being rude and the realikty is this was most likley the case.
I have no issue with removing an rude customer.
Again where do you want to draw the line of this Rags on uncomfortability?
Some people are afraid of their own shadow left alone people around them.
You cannot discrminate against people based off a fear.
I understand people having this fear, but it further sow a seed of divide in this country.

The reality is you are way more likley to be run over or die in a car crash than be a victim of a terrorist attack, murder etc.
So do people stay in their house in fear that this may happen?

No.

They get on with their lives, because it may well be a possibility it may happen, but its unlikely and even more unlikely that a terrorist attack will successfully happen.

As I said, this is not about statistics or probability, so it makes no difference whether you're more likely to be run over or not. This is about the aftermath of several terrorist attacks which have happened lately. I think it's natural to be very wary in the immediate aftermath of any kind of attack of that nature. At any other time, those passengers may well not have even noticed the man. I think allowances should be made, and the chap should get a refund for his bus ticket and move on.

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

I am not concerned if he was kicked oiff for being rude and the realikty is this was most likley the case.
I have no issue with removing an rude customer.
Again where do you want to draw the line of this Rags on uncomfortability?
Some people are afraid of their own shadow left alone people around them.
You cannot discrminate against people based off a fear.
I understand people having this fear, but it further sow a seed of divide in this country.

The reality is you are way more likley to be run over or die in a car crash than be a victim of a terrorist attack, murder etc.
So do people stay in their house in fear that this may happen?

No.

They get on with their lives, because it may well be a possibility it may happen, but its unlikely and even more unlikely that a terrorist attack will successfully happen.

As I said, this is not about statistics or probability, so it makes no difference whether you're more likely to be run over or not. This is about the aftermath of several terrorist attacks which have happened lately. I think it's natural to be very wary in the immediate aftermath of any kind of attack of that nature. At any other time, those passengers may well not have even noticed the man. I think allowances should be made, and the chap should get a refund for his bus ticket and move on.

It makes all the difference.
One terrorist event has happened here recently with injuries, one previous of a soldier being execiuted and before then 7/7 where there has been fatalities
If you go off other nations, when they have far greater risks based on different situations and access to weaponary, then you are basing a false premsie to the risk of an attack or the likely chance of one being successful.
Again you fail to grasp that you do not hold other groups of people to such criminality of which there is vastly more of that happens in the UK.

Again how do you travel to work?
Why do you not fear other means of which you are far more likely to die of?
The reality is you are already a victim of terrorism, because their objective has succeeded in making you fear something far less probable of happenning to you, than many other ways you could possible die Rags.

That is what you fail to grasp

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:45 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

As I said, this is not about statistics or probability, so it makes no difference whether you're more likely to be run over or not. This is about the aftermath of several terrorist attacks which have happened lately. I think it's natural to be very wary in the immediate aftermath of any kind of attack of that nature. At any other time, those passengers may well not have even noticed the man. I think allowances should be made, and the chap should get a refund for his bus ticket and move on.

It makes all the difference.
One terrorist event has happened here recently with injuries, one previous of a soldier being execiuted and before then 7/7 where there has been fatalities
If you go off other nations, when they have far greater risks based on different situations and access to weaponary, then you are basing a false premsie to the risk of an attack or the likely chance of one being successful.
Again you fail to grasp that you do not hold other groups of people to such criminality of which there is vastly more of that happens in the UK.

Again how do you travel to work?
Why do you not fear other means of which you are far more likely to die of?
The reality is you are already a victim of terrorism, because their objective has succeeded in making you fear something far less probable of happenning to you, than many other ways you could possible die Rags.

That is what you fail to grasp

It doesn't make a difference in people's minds, and you can tell them all you like that they have more chance of being run over - it won't make a difference.

Recently, there was the attack in Paris, the one in San Bernardino, and the stabbing at Leytonstone. It doesn't matter in which country the attacks took place - it's all the "west" - and now that the UK has started to bomb Syria, people are expecting trouble.

by Victorismyhero Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:47 pm

ragga has a point didge...logic plays no part in peoples concerns and expecting it to is unrealistic

this is one reason I posed the question above,,,,

which no one is able to answer....

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

It makes all the difference.
One terrorist event has happened here recently with injuries, one previous of a soldier being execiuted and before then 7/7 where there has been fatalities
If you go off other nations, when they have far greater risks based on different situations and access to weaponary, then you are basing a false premsie to the risk of an attack or the likely chance of one being successful.
Again you fail to grasp that you do not hold other groups of people to such criminality of which there is vastly more of that happens in the UK.

Again how do you travel to work?
Why do you not fear other means of which you are far more likely to die of?
The reality is you are already a victim of terrorism, because their objective has succeeded in making you fear something far less probable of happenning to you, than many other ways you could possible die Rags.

That is what you fail to grasp

It doesn't make a difference in people's minds, and you can tell them all you like that they have more chance of being run over - it won't make a difference.

Recently, there was the attack in Paris, the one in San Bernardino, and the stabbing at Leytonstone. It doesn't matter in which country the attacks took place - it's all the "west" - and now that the UK has started to bomb Syria, people are expecting trouble.

I understand some people bow down to terror which is not what this country stands for because we have faced far more successful terrorist attacks in the past and we did not bow down to that. Yes there was discrmination against the Irish all wrong as well, but the reality is you are doing exactly what Daesh wants you to do. Fear a much less likely chance of you being killed or injured, to the point you then fear and ostraciuze Muslims. This then furthers their cause. Already with a poor narative that is hateful to the west and even more poor naratives blaming the west for perceived wrongs is going to make them far more easily recruitable to Daesh. I mean imagine a situation where it became like Israel with people being rammed, stones thrown at cars and daily stabbings. The last thing that should happens is to divide this nation and even more so ostracize 3 million of our citizens, a group who has no fear of death itself.

So yes it does matter as to the means and methods for how a terrorist attack can be carried out. We should be standing united but also the Muslim community also understanding that some people will have this fear and that sexurity measures are necessary. But we all need to work together and if we do as you want to do and bow down to terror, then you further ther aims of daesh Rags. Sorry but you do, we should stand defiant to any fear they offer us and carry on as normal as you would do even if you had been in a car crash yourself. Life goes on, but the last thing you want to do is create a far worse situation that could then turn a substancial amount of the Muslim population against the people.

That would be self defeating

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:58 pm

Lord Foul wrote:ragga has a point didge...logic plays no part in peoples concerns and expecting it to is unrealistic

this is one reason I posed the question above,,,,

which no one is able to answer....

The point is Victor how do you explain any death to anyone that has lost family through them being victims.
You cannot again base an argument on a what if. If you did nobody would ever leave their house.
As where do you draw the line of blame.
"Well I should not have left the house today and my daughter would not have run out in front of a car".
Do you see how silly that could get onto how somethings are just out of our hands.
Like I say, you are more likely to suspect the wrrong people because again it is far more likely they are not going to be looking how people think they will look like.
So people have to be how we once were under a terrorist threat before, defiant and defiant to any threat to our lives. We did this also in WW2, its called not bowing down to fear, as the moment you do that, you conceed defeat,

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:01 pm

Right catch you all later.

This is very interesting and I do very much as I have stated througout understand peoples fears, but they are not placing them into a form of context, of which they need to do and even more so, show that we are defiant to any threat.

Cheers

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:03 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:ragga has a point didge...logic plays no part in peoples concerns and expecting it to is unrealistic

this is one reason I posed the question above,,,,

which no one is able to answer....

The point is Victor how do you explain any death to anyone that has lost family through them being victims.
You cannot again base an argument on a what if. If you did nobody would ever leave their house.
As where do you draw the line of blame.
"Well I should not have left the house today and my daughter would not have run out in front of a car".
Do you see how silly that could get onto how somethings are just out of our hands.
Like I say, you are more likely to suspect the wrrong people because again it is far more likely they are not going to be looking how people think they will look like.
So people have to be how we once were under a terrorist threat before, defiant and defiant to any threat to our lives. We did this also in WW2, its called not bowing down to fear, as the moment you do that, you conceed defeat,

That is exactly the sort of thing that people say. It doesn't matter how illogical that seems to you or anyone else.

It's the association in people's minds which is the issue. They don't think - oh, well he looks like a Muslim, but if he's a terrorist he would probably not be wearing that great scarf on his head or have that beard.

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:01 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

The point is Victor how do you explain any death to anyone that has lost family through them being victims.
You cannot again base an argument on a what if. If you did nobody would ever leave their house.
As where do you draw the line of blame.
"Well I should not have left the house today and my daughter would not have run out in front of a car".
Do you see how silly that could get onto how somethings are just out of our hands.
Like I say, you are more likely to suspect the wrrong people because again it is far more likely they are not going to be looking how people think they will look like.
So people have to be how we once were under a terrorist threat before, defiant and defiant to any threat to our lives. We did this also in WW2, its called not bowing down to fear, as the moment you do that, you conceed defeat,

That is exactly the sort of thing that people say. It doesn't matter how illogical that seems to you or anyone else.

It's the association in people's minds which is the issue. They don't think - oh, well he looks like a Muslim, but if he's a terrorist he would probably not be wearing that great scarf on his head or have that beard.

so basiccally you are backing people to have poor inaccurate views that lead them to a fear that is less likely to happen to them and that matters more than them being more likely to be a victim to far more probable situations?
So again it is this mindset that needs to change, one that is placing a fear that is also based on wrongly assuming that the terrorist is going to dress so obviously like your sterotype of a religious Muslim.
So then education is the key is it not?

I mean do you want the stats on fatalities last year and casulaties and compare this to terrorist attacks last year in the UK to show how badly the mindset of people is?

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:05 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

That is exactly the sort of thing that people say. It doesn't matter how illogical that seems to you or anyone else.

It's the association in people's minds which is the issue. They don't think - oh, well he looks like a Muslim, but if he's a terrorist he would probably not be wearing that great scarf on his head or have that beard.

so basiccally you are backing people to have poor inaccurate views that lead them to a fear that is less likely to happen to them and that matters more than them being more likely to be a victim to far more probable situations?
So again it is this mindset that needs to change, one that is placing a fear that is also based on wrongly assuming that the terrorist is going to dress so obviously like your sterotype of a religious Muslim.
So then education is the key is it not?

I mean do you want the stats on fatalities last year and casulaties and compare this to terrorist attacks last year in the UK to show how badly the mindset of people is?

I'm saying that I understand their fears. That's what you appeared to be saying earlier too, but you've changed your tune.

You will not be able to change people's perceptions as you want to. People already know the likelihood of being killed by a terrorist, they don't need to be educated about it. I don't know why you're so blinkered about this - do you know nothing about human nature?

Anyway, if you start educating people that terrorists look ordinary, and they believe you, the terrorists will just change the way they look and start dressing in a different manner.

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:11 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

so basiccally you are backing people to have poor inaccurate views that lead them to a fear that is less likely to happen to them and that matters more than them being more likely to be a victim to far more probable situations?
So again it is this mindset that needs to change, one that is placing a fear that is also based on wrongly assuming that the terrorist is going to dress so obviously like your sterotype of a religious Muslim.
So then education is the key is it not?

I mean do you want the stats on fatalities last year and casulaties and compare this to terrorist attacks last year in the UK to show how badly the mindset of people is?

I'm saying that I understand their fears. That's what you appeared to be saying earlier too, but you've changed your tune.

You will not be able to change people's perceptions as you want to. People already know the likelihood of being killed by a terrorist, they don't need to be educated about it. I don't know why you're so blinkered about this - do you know nothing about human nature?

Anyway, if you start educating people that terrorists look ordinary, and they believe you, the terrorists will just change the way they look and start dressing in a different manner.

So do I understand their fears, it is what happens when a media centres on such events, that they play far more on the mind of people. I mean if the media played everyday every single fatality and played off this with car crashes, there is no doubt this would lead to an increase of people fearing using cars.

Show me anywhere that I have changed my tune on anything?

Do not invent nonsense rags.

Its not about educating what terrorists look like but to play down the fear they have of the fact they are highly unlikely to be a victim of terrorism. Can you not understand that?

Again if rapes were on the news 24/7 with white males between 20-30 years of age, there is no doubt you would conclude to then stigmatize this group of males. This is the problem, and it is on you have created yourself and based more off how much media attention an event gets.

by Ben Reilly Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 pm

I hope everybody here still realizes that just because you're afraid, that alone does not give you the right to violate a person's rights.

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:17 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I hope everybody here still realizes that just because you're afraid, that alone does not give you the right to violate a person's rights.

It was the staff who asked him to leave the bus, not the passengers, and it was because he got abusive. The passengers were entitled to voice their fears.

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:19 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I hope everybody here still realizes that just because you're afraid, that alone does not give you the right to violate a person's rights.

Wrong, if a knife is pointed at me, fuck the other persons rights, if he is trying to kill me.
Poor choicing of wording.
What you should have said is all have equal rights within the law, which means all can be stopped if there is a valid reason to do so.

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:20 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm saying that I understand their fears. That's what you appeared to be saying earlier too, but you've changed your tune.

You will not be able to change people's perceptions as you want to. People already know the likelihood of being killed by a terrorist, they don't need to be educated about it. I don't know why you're so blinkered about this - do you know nothing about human nature?

Anyway, if you start educating people that terrorists look ordinary, and they believe you, the terrorists will just change the way they look and start dressing in a different manner.

So do I understand their fears, it is what happens when a media centres on such events, that they play far more on the mind of people. I mean if the media played everyday every single fatality and played off this with car crashes, there is no doubt this would lead to an increase of people fearing using cars.

Show me anywhere that I have changed my tune on anything?

Do not invent nonsense rags.

Its not about educating what terrorists look like but to play down the fear they have of the fact they are highly unlikely to be a victim of terrorism. Can you not understand that?

Again if rapes were on the news 24/7 with white males between 20-30 years of age, there is no doubt you would conclude to then stigmatize this group of males. This is the problem, and it is on you have created yourself and based more off how much media attention an event gets.

In the '70s and early 80's it was statistically unlikely that women in the north of England would be murdered by the Yorkshire Ripper, but most of them still took precautions. Sadly, some did not and were murdered.

Would you say to women - oh, there's a killer on the loose targeting women, but it's unlikely to be you, so you just carry on walking around on your own in isolated areas in the dark?

by Ben Reilly Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:22 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I hope everybody here still realizes that just because you're afraid, that alone does not give you the right to violate a person's rights.

Wrong, if a knife is pointed at me, fuck the other persons rights, if he is trying to kill me.
Poor choicing of wording.
What you should have said is all have equal rights within the law, which means all can be stopped if there is a valid reason to do so.

Like I said, fear alone doesn't give you the right to treat someone differently. If he was being threatening, that's another story.

The story in that is, "Threatening, abusive person kicked off bus," not "Muslim kicked off bus."

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:24 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Wrong, if a knife is pointed at me, fuck the other persons rights, if he is trying to kill me.
Poor choicing of wording.
What you should have said is all have equal rights within the law, which means all can be stopped if there is a valid reason to do so.

Like I said, fear alone doesn't give you the right to treat someone differently. If he was being threatening, that's another story.

The story in that is, "Threatening, abusive person kicked off bus," not "Muslim kicked off bus."

Well perhaps that should have been the headline. We really only have his side of the story.

by Ben Reilly Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:25 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm saying that I understand their fears. That's what you appeared to be saying earlier too, but you've changed your tune.

You will not be able to change people's perceptions as you want to. People already know the likelihood of being killed by a terrorist, they don't need to be educated about it. I don't know why you're so blinkered about this - do you know nothing about human nature?

Anyway, if you start educating people that terrorists look ordinary, and they believe you, the terrorists will just change the way they look and start dressing in a different manner.

So do I understand their fears, it is what happens when a media centres on such events, that they play far more on the mind of people. I mean if the media played everyday every single fatality and played off this with car crashes, there is no doubt this would lead to an increase of people fearing using cars.

Show me anywhere that I have changed my tune on anything?

Do not invent nonsense rags.

Its not about educating what terrorists look like but to play down the fear they have of the fact they are highly unlikely to be a victim of terrorism. Can you not understand that?

Again if rapes were on the news 24/7 with white males between 20-30 years of age, there is no doubt you would conclude to then stigmatize this group of males. This is the problem, and it is on you have created yourself and based more off how much media attention an event gets.

In the '70s and early 80's it was statistically unlikely that women in the north of England would be murdered by the Yorkshire Ripper, but most of them still took precautions. Sadly, some did not and were murdered.

Would you say to women - oh, there's a killer on the loose targeting women, but it's unlikely to be you, so you just carry on walking around on your own in isolated areas in the dark?

What would be the equivalent here? "Oh, 14 people in the U.S. and 130 in Paris were recently killed by terrorists, so don't go anywhere terrorists might target -- like a cafe, restaurant, concert hall or Department of Public Health holiday party."

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:26 pm

Oh, and read your post on the previous page to see how you changed your tune Didge.

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:27 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Wrong, if a knife is pointed at me, fuck the other persons rights, if he is trying to kill me.
Poor choicing of wording.
What you should have said is all have equal rights within the law, which means all can be stopped if there is a valid reason to do so.

Like I said, fear alone doesn't give you the right to treat someone differently. If he was being threatening, that's another story.

The story in that is, "Threatening, abusive person kicked off bus," not "Muslim kicked off bus."

But that is a case of being in fear Ben, when threatened, so your choice of words was not correct.
The story to me is an invention of victimhood. I have stated it is wrong to discrminate based off an unfounded fear. Of which it would be to just sterotype someone based on their looks. Not one person has backed up his story, that he was kicked off for being a Muslim. I suspect it was more a case of the fact he was abusive, as to why he was then rightly kicked off and then played the victim Muslim card, which does nothing for the real victims of Muslim discrmination.

by Victorismyhero Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:27 pm

I've said it before, and i'll say it again

the FACT are largely irrelevant, what counts is peoples perception of things

couple this whith the fact that most people see "the govt" as inverterate liars twisters and fudgers, and that they consider anything that comes from govt is BOUND to be lefty spin and lies (not, mind you without good reason)

then really you shouldnt be at all surprised at current events, nor should you expect to simply "educate it away"

people are rapidly becoming resistant to what you call "education" and they would call propaganda

you can go on tv and say a million times that the vast majotity of Muslims here are decent folk

and the audience simply say "yeah right...so you are a lefty too"

and who is to blame???

well inevitably its the lefty...

with their past record of if you dont like it tough suck it up whilst encouraging massive unregulated immigration, without the proper spending in the right places to help sort the problems that caused
for their past record of kneeling and taking it to order whenever a minority demanded something, instead of saying "here hang on a mo...this is britain...and OUR laws as they are written are what apply, we aint making "exceptions"
the left have allowed us to be persistantly butt fucked in innumerable ways....all i the name of "equality2...except that in reality it isnt "equality" at all.

when this is pointed out they bleat "well it doesnt actually affect you does it" and often tis is true

HOWEVER what it does to is create, and then confirm in the minds of people generally the view that these minorities are getting "special treatment"

often these "exceptions" have nothing to do with human rights

for instance the rights of gay folk (of all faiths and nations) are true human rights issues

the right to halal meat, the right of exemption to crash helmets etc are NOT human rights issues

It is quite clear in the quoran that if Halal isnt available then its not compulsary

If you dont want to wear a crash helmet then dont ride a bike,,,,riding a motor bike my dear sikh friend is NOT a human right...

and if it is then riding one without a helmet as you claim is too...so therefore I (if I wished to) should be able to do likewise

and this country is FULL of "exceptions" like this

If I turn up at a petrol stn till I am obliged in law to remove my helmet

why is the head covered moslem not made to do the same?

what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander....

so....

you CANNOT expect your "ideal" to exist in the present climate

there is simply too much distrust (and rightly so) in "the establishment"

caused by the left and continued by a cowardly "right of center"

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:28 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh, and read your post on the previous page to see how you changed your tune Didge.

You are trying to start as per usual when you are not doing well in a debate Rags

Twice now you have made an accusation without backing it up.

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:28 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

In the '70s and early 80's it was statistically unlikely that women in the north of England would be murdered by the Yorkshire Ripper, but most of them still took precautions. Sadly, some did not and were murdered.

Would you say to women - oh, there's a killer on the loose targeting women, but it's unlikely to be you, so you just carry on walking around on your own in isolated areas in the dark?

What would be the equivalent here? "Oh, 14 people in the U.S. and 130 in Paris were recently killed by terrorists, so don't go anywhere terrorists might target -- like a cafe, restaurant, concert hall or Department of Public Health holiday party."

I bet some people are thinking twice before they go to those places, especially in large cities like London. Stormee said that he wouldn't be going to London for Christmas presents this year.

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:29 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Oh, and read your post on the previous page to see how you changed your tune Didge.

You are trying to start as per usual when you are not doing well in a debate Rags

Twice now you have made an accusation without backing it up.

but what is really driving fear into people is the enormous amount of Islamic terrorist terrorist attacks world wide that is really driving paranoia and fear. Not only that you have many of these extremist groups that very much care nothing for their sanctity of life and place more emphasis on their supposed afterlife than they do of the human life. This is difficult for many people to take in, as like with the recent attack, many fail to grasp how and why releatively young parants would willingly throw their lives away to a ridiculous absurd fanatical cause.

So its of no surprise espcially in the Uk where they are way used to more bombing terrorist attacks, and in a country where guns are not freely accessable, that people are going to be that more fearful, as they have little or nothing to protect them from an attack. I am no fan of the gun control in the US, but at least there many have guns to actually defend themselves from any such terrorist attack. Its the vunerability and the barbarity of the terrorist attacks that is driving the fear in many people and to turn a blind eye to the fear of many have, is not going to help the situation either.

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

So do I understand their fears, it is what happens when a media centres on such events, that they play far more on the mind of people. I mean if the media played everyday every single fatality and played off this with car crashes, there is no doubt this would lead to an increase of people fearing using cars.

Show me anywhere that I have changed my tune on anything?

Do not invent nonsense rags.

Its not about educating what terrorists look like but to play down the fear they have of the fact they are highly unlikely to be a victim of terrorism. Can you not understand that?

Again if rapes were on the news 24/7 with white males between 20-30 years of age, there is no doubt you would conclude to then stigmatize this group of males. This is the problem, and it is on you have created yourself and based more off how much media attention an event gets.

In the '70s and early 80's it was statistically unlikely that women in the north of England would be murdered by the Yorkshire Ripper, but most of them still took precautions. Sadly, some did not and were murdered.

Would you say to women - oh, there's a killer on the loose targeting women, but it's unlikely to be you, so you just carry on walking around on your own in isolated areas in the dark?

Precautions, did they refuse all males of a certain age to get on buses?
Come in bars?
The workplace?
The train?
Did they ask men to leave any of the above?

You seem to confuse measure to protect women with discrmination, which are miles apart.
Women going out in numbers is not discrminating against single men is it

Poor choice of argument again

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:30 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

You are trying to start as per usual when you are not doing well in a debate Rags

Twice now you have made an accusation without backing it up.

but what is really driving fear into people is the enormous amount of Islamic terrorist terrorist attacks world wide that is really driving paranoia and fear. Not only that you have many of these extremist groups that very much care nothing for their sanctity of life and place more emphasis on their supposed afterlife than they do of the human life. This is difficult for many people to take in, as like with the recent attack, many fail to grasp how and why releatively young parants would willingly throw their lives away to a ridiculous absurd fanatical cause.

So its of no surprise espcially in the Uk where they are way used to more bombing terrorist attacks, and in a country where guns are not freely accessable, that people are going to be that more fearful, as they have little or nothing to protect them from an attack. I am no fan of the gun control in the US, but at least there many have guns to actually defend themselves from any such terrorist attack. Its the vunerability and the barbarity of the terrorist attacks that is driving the fear in many people and to turn a blind eye to the fear of many have, is not going to help the situation either.

Point how I have changed any tune when I said I understand how people feel?

So an apology for a false accusation

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:32 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Point how I have changed any tune when I said I understand how people feel?

So an apology for a false accusation

You will not get one because you clearly changed your tune since that post.

by Victorismyhero Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:33 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

What would be the equivalent here? "Oh, 14 people in the U.S. and 130 in Paris were recently killed by terrorists, so don't go anywhere terrorists might target -- like a cafe, restaurant, concert hall or Department of Public Health holiday party."

I bet some people are thinking twice before they go to those places, especially in large cities like London. Stormee said that he wouldn't be going to London for Christmas presents this year.

yup, manchester will have to do without me an my lots spending this year...

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Point how I have changed any tune when I said I understand how people feel?

So an apology for a false accusation

You will not get one because you clearly changed your tune since that post.

understanding how people feel does not mean I agree with how they are being does it.

So you have now again because you have no valid points attempted to derail by fixating about things I have said because you have exhausted your poor counters.

Sorry the new didge is not buying such poor tactics Rags.

Deabte the poinst not the poster

Comprende?

by Ben Reilly Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:41 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

In the '70s and early 80's it was statistically unlikely that women in the north of England would be murdered by the Yorkshire Ripper, but most of them still took precautions. Sadly, some did not and were murdered.

Would you say to women - oh, there's a killer on the loose targeting women, but it's unlikely to be you, so you just carry on walking around on your own in isolated areas in the dark?

What would be the equivalent here? "Oh, 14 people in the U.S. and 130 in Paris were recently killed by terrorists, so don't go anywhere terrorists might target -- like a cafe, restaurant, concert hall or Department of Public Health holiday party."

I bet some people are thinking twice before they go to those places, especially in large cities like London. Stormee said that he wouldn't be going to London for Christmas presents this year.

Yeah, when they start eating healthy I'll take them seriously. Someone who fears death from terrorists but not from heart disease, etc. is a moron.

by Cass Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:47 pm

I will make one last comment on this thread before I finish with it;

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jew, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Reverend Martin Niemoller

I lived in Northern Ireland twice when the IRA/INLA/UDA etc... were still bombing and killing each other and us civillians. When one of the kids was very sick I had to go to a children's hospital under armed guard and Mr. C couldn't come because of who he was. I cant even begin to remember the amount if times we were evacuated from shops or our home or indeed seeing and hearing bombs and gun fire. I currently live near the Mexican border and hear and see drug cartel events on a weekly basis. I deal with meth heads, drunks, plain crazy people in the library on a daily basis.

So a big fuck off to the narrow minded people who want to play the I have it so much worse than you game. We all have our issues. But I am damn lucky in my life and so instead of playing whoa is me and worrying about what the person next to me is doing and/or thinking, I celebrate the good because frankly people we need it.

by Victorismyhero Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:48 pm

cept if I die from heart disease (unlikey it seems atm) my insurance will pay out and those left behind will be provided for

if some islamic nut job blows me up zilch, zero, nada...

thats just 1 consideration

by Victorismyhero Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:50 pm

Cass wrote:I will make one last comment on this thread before I finish with it;

First they came for the Socialists, and I did nott speak out - Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Bee, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Reverend Martin Niemoller

I lived in Northern Ireland twice when the IRA/INLA/UDA etc... were still bombing and killing each other and us civillians. When one of the kids was very sick I had to go to a children's hospital under armed guard and Mr. C couldn't come because of who he was. I cant even begin to remember the amount if times we were evacuated from shops or our home or indeed seeing and hearing bombs and gun fire. I currently live near the Mexican border and hear and see drug cartel events on a weekly basis. I deal with meth heads, drunks, plain crazy people in the library on a daily basis.

So a big fuck off to the narrow minded people who want to play the I have it so much worse than you game. We all have our issues. But I am damn lucky in my life and so instead of playing whoa is me and worrying about what the person next to me is doing and/or thinking, I celebrate the good because frankly people we need it.

with all respect Cass...THAT would be better aimed at our erstwhile insulted Muslim who is the subject of this thread.....

by Cass Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:58 pm

With respect Vic - we both know that the media is on a fear Muslims frenzy and I for one am not gonna bite.

I'm sick and tired of it. If the guy is an asshat, hes an asshat not a Muslim asshat.

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:58 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I bet some people are thinking twice before they go to those places, especially in large cities like London. Stormee said that he wouldn't be going to London for Christmas presents this year.

Yeah, when they start eating healthy I'll take them seriously. Someone who fears death from terrorists but not from heart disease, etc. is a moron.

They don't need your permission to fear death from terrorists, and I doubt they care if you think they're morons or not.

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:03 pm

Cass wrote:With respect Vic - we both know that the media is on a fear Muslims frenzy and I for one am not gonna bite.

I'm sick and tired of it. If the guy is an asshat, hes an asshat not a Muslim asshat.

But if he is an asshat me Lady, and he has played the victim based of being a Muslim, he further damages the situation for Muslims.
It works both ways.
Again I find it worse when people who are in the wrong play off something that identifies them to claim victim status.
It just adds more ammunition to people of far right views.

You know I agree on your other points.

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:04 pm

Cass wrote:With respect Vic - we both know that the media is on a fear Muslims frenzy and I for one am not gonna bite.

I'm sick and tired of it. If the guy is an asshat, hes an asshat not a Muslim asshat.

If that report is anything to go by, it's also in a false Islamophobia frenzy. Who says that he was removed because he's a Muslim? He does, and that's what gets reported. Who says that the people on the bus didn't like the way he looked? He does, and that's what gets reported.

by Ben Reilly Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:06 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I bet some people are thinking twice before they go to those places, especially in large cities like London. Stormee said that he wouldn't be going to London for Christmas presents this year.

Yeah, when they start eating healthy I'll take them seriously. Someone who fears death from terrorists but not from heart disease, etc. is a moron.

They don't need your permission to fear death from terrorists, and I doubt they care if you think they're morons or not.

That doesn't make them smart.

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:07 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

They don't need your permission to fear death from terrorists, and I doubt they care if you think they're morons or not.

That doesn't make them smart.

It makes them human. Perhaps you should try it some time.

by Ben Reilly Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:08 pm

Cass wrote:With respect Vic - we both know that the media is on a fear Muslims frenzy and I for one am not gonna bite.

I'm sick and tired of it. If the guy is an asshat, hes an asshat not a Muslim asshat.

It's disconcerting! We didn't see this level of anti-Muslim hysteria here in the U.S. after the freakin' 9/11 attacks, yet now it seems like half of us think they're going to die in an attack by the end of the week.

by Ben Reilly Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:09 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

They don't need your permission to fear death from terrorists, and I doubt they care if you think they're morons or not.

That doesn't make them smart.

It makes them human. Perhaps you should try it some time.

I can't "try" to run around being afraid of things that won't likely hurt me, and wouldn't want to.

by Cass Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:11 pm

^agree rags and didge but here's a conundrum - would he have played that card if there wasn't such an onslaught of media and public fear mongering?

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:11 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It makes them human. Perhaps you should try it some time.

I can't "try" to run around being afraid of things that won't likely hurt me, and wouldn't want to.

Who says people are running around being afraid? They're just wary in certain situations. Perhaps you never leave your house.

by Raggamuffin Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:13 pm

Cass wrote:^agree rags and didge but here's a conundrum - would he have played that card if there wasn't such an onslaught of media and public fear mongering?

You mean he took advantage of it? If so, I don't think anyone but himself can be blamed for that.

Tbh, I don't see that much public fearmongering about Muslims anyway.

by Guest Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:18 pm

Cass wrote:^agree rags and didge but here's a conundrum - would he have played that card if there wasn't such an onslaught of media and public fear mongering?

I agree on that point completely me Lady, but again it is completely wrong then for what it seems very much so that this was an abusive customer to then play off being a victim on the identity of being a Muslim and even more so he will have done this also from the media attention.
Again it works both ways on this.

by Cass Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cass wrote:^agree rags and didge but here's a conundrum - would he have played that card if there wasn't such an onslaught of media and public fear mongering?

You mean he took advantage of it? If so, I don't think anyone but himself can be blamed for that.

Tbh, I don't see that much public fearmongering about Muslims anyway.

There is. The Donald for one. Look at what's trending on social media, turn on any cable news network. I am constantly blocking sites and/or posts that friends share because frankly it turns my stomach. I respect their own point of view but that doesn't mean I have to look at it. So much for the season of peace and goodwill.

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