So we all came from Africa, did we dodge?

by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:48 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34531861

Modern humans remains found in China dating back 20,000 earlier than African finds!!!

That's an inconvenient truth for you and your bullshit!!!

lol!

by Tommy Monk Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:24 pm

The list is endless smelly...

by veya_victaous Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:51 pm

umm this doesn't mean what Tommy thinks it does, it is an extinct linage we already have 2 confirmed and there is half a dozen discovered.

Humans came out of Africa there is Multiple Exoduses, most humans alive today descend from a exodus that occurred about 60,000 years ago. The main exception is the Australian Aboriginals

by eddie Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:40 am

veya_victaous wrote:umm this doesn't mean what Tommy thinks it does, it is an extinct linage we already have 2 confirmed and there is half a dozen discovered.

Humans came out of Africa there is Multiple Exoduses, most humans alive today descend from a exodus that occurred about 60,000 years ago. The main exception is the Australian Aboriginals

So I'm right? We all started off black?

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:50 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes, but over the last few tens of thousands of years, everyone here in UK and other northern hemisphere places would have been much more out doors and had much more exposure to sunlight anyway... so getting much more than plenty of sunlight so absolutely no basis for the theory that black people turned white to get more sun absorbtion!

Good point Tommy. The theory kind of makes sense in some ways, but not in other ways. It also doesn't explain the difference in other physical features.

by eddie Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:02 am

Our hair can be curly or easily curled as in the cases of black hair, yet they're never (or rarely ever) born with straight hair.

I think we can transform more easily (and naturally) into a "black" person ie hair and tanning, than the other way round.

It makes sense to me.

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:19 am

eddie wrote:Our hair can be curly or easily curled as in the cases of black hair, yet they're never (or rarely ever) born with straight hair.

I think we can transform more easily (and naturally) into a "black" person ie hair and tanning, than the other way round.

It makes sense to me.

Curly hair on a white person isn't usually the same as afro hair though. I think the idea of afro hair is to protect against UV rays again. I'm not sure why it evolved into straight hair.

I couldn't make my hair look like afro hair - well not for long anyway, and black people can and do straighten their hair. I also could not tan enough to look black.

There are other physical features which are different - nose and jaw bone for example.

by Guest Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:31 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
eddie wrote:Our hair can be curly or easily curled as in the cases of black hair, yet they're never (or rarely ever) born with straight hair.

I think we can transform more easily (and naturally) into a "black" person ie hair and tanning, than the other way round.

It makes sense to me.

Curly hair on a white person isn't usually the same as afro hair though. I think the idea of afro hair is to protect against UV rays again. I'm not sure why it evolved into straight hair.

I couldn't make my hair look like afro hair - well not for long anyway, and black people can and do straighten their hair. I also could not tan enough to look black.

There are other physical features which are different - nose and jaw bone for example.

Nit to mention the behavioural social and technological difference

Or the fact that despite apparently starting off together, those who went north have evolved at a greater rate resulting in advanced civilizations and societies whilst those who remained have barely evolved at all

by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:38 am

What about Indian people?

Similar climate, all look totally different to black people, straight hair etc...

And veya again clings to the 'official story' in the face of evidence that modern humans were in China 20,000 years before any evidence that they even existed in Africa!!!

by Guest Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:11 am

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/06/11_idaltu.shtml

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:12 am

Tommy Monk wrote:What about Indian people?

Similar climate, all look totally different to black people, straight hair etc...

And veya again clings to the 'official story' in the face of evidence that modern humans were in China 20,000 years before any evidence that they even existed in Africa!!!

They're not as dark though are they? Not generally speaking anyway.

by veya_victaous Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:23 pm

eddie wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:umm this doesn't mean what Tommy thinks it does, it is an extinct linage we already have 2 confirmed and there is half a dozen discovered.

Humans came out of Africa there is Multiple Exoduses, most humans alive today descend from a exodus that occurred about 60,000 years ago. The main exception is the Australian Aboriginals

So I'm right? We all started off black?

Probably.. we would have at least been brown.
it makes sense most of the great apes have dark skin and we know pure white skin (Albino) can occur with inbreeding that is quite probable in early migrating humans. (all aboriginals descend from a few as 27 individuals).
Additionally in colder climates it is not a disadvantage to be pale and in the further north it is an advantage as you get more vitamin D.. So it is logical via evolution that it would be more prevalent in those places and the getting fairer as you move north is the same in Asia as it is in Europe/Mediterranean.

by nicko Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:24 pm

That seems a sensible solution Veya.

by veya_victaous Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:39 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:What about Indian people?

Similar climate, all look totally different to black people, straight hair etc...

And veya again clings to the 'official story' in the face of evidence that modern humans were in China 20,000 years before any evidence that they even existed in Africa!!!

Indians probably descend from peoples that lived in the middle eat before the Arabs and Persians .. there was a period of great migration in that region about 4,000 years ago.

And NO not older than all the human bones in Africa

How old is the oldest Homosapien?
The earliest fossils of anatomically modern humans are from the Middle Paleolithic, about 200,000 years ago such as the Omo remains of Ethiopia and the fossils of Herto sometimes classified as Homo sapiens idaltu.
Human - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

they are older than the ones in the Arabian peninsular that were thought to be the the main exodus (as an Aussie we are taught a more complete version that acknowledges our aboriginals as being pre this exodus.. But Anglocentric publications run with the version that you are fighting against.... so good on you standing up for indigenous recognition cheers

)

IF you bothered to actually read the whole thing you would see it says they are largely extinct or out breed by the later exodus, Like i said the main earlier exodus humans that are still alive are the Australian aboriginals that were already here at least 50,000 years ago and they suggest more like 80,000 (and is fair enough to cover the space on foot) which would make them the same exodus as those bones in china. tongue

by Fuzzy Zack Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:55 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34531861

Modern humans remains found in China dating back 20,000 earlier than African finds!!!

That's an inconvenient truth for you and your bullshit!!!

I can see the racist Chinese loving this. Makes them the superior race.

by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:14 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:What about Indian people?

Similar climate, all look totally different to black people, straight hair etc...

And veya again clings to the 'official story' in the face of evidence that modern humans were in China 20,000 years before any evidence that they even existed in Africa!!!

They're not as dark though are they? Not generally speaking anyway.

Exactly... why not if same climate...?

by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:15 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34531861

Modern humans remains found in China dating back 20,000 earlier than African finds!!!

That's an inconvenient truth for you and your bullshit!!!

I can see the racist Chinese loving this. Makes them the superior race.

by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:17 pm

Veya, have already answered that the average person can get enough vitamin d from only ten minutes exposure to sunlight.

So no reason to turn white.

by eddie Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:56 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
eddie wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:umm this doesn't mean what Tommy thinks it does, it is an extinct linage we already have 2 confirmed and there is half a dozen discovered.

Humans came out of Africa there is Multiple Exoduses, most humans alive today descend from a exodus that occurred about 60,000 years ago. The main exception is the Australian Aboriginals

So I'm right? We all started off black?

Probably.. we would have at least been brown.
it makes sense most of the great apes have dark skin and we know pure white skin (Albino) can occur with inbreeding that is quite probable in early migrating humans. (all aboriginals descend from a few as 27 individuals).
Additionally in colder climates it is not a disadvantage to be pale and in the further north it is an advantage as you get more vitamin D.. So it is logical via evolution that it would be more prevalent in those places and the getting fairer as you move north is the same in Asia as it is in Europe/Mediterranean.

Makes sense to me. Always thought we came from brown skin.

by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:38 pm

White Europeans and other northern hemisphere people are not albino...

If we had as much exposure now as we used to do, being more outdoors and farming etc, then we would be browner.

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:52 pm

What does Albinism have to do with it? That's down to a recessive gene. An albino inherits the defective gene from both parents.

by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:15 pm

Veya suggested it above...

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Veya suggested it above...

I know, and he appears to be suggesting that people became white because those who migrated were albinos. If an albino had a kid with another albino, they would have an albino kid.

by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:31 pm

He said it was down to inbreeding which he also says would have been common place... but then completely contradicts this as he then says aborigines all came from only 27 people, so inbreeding would have been rife but they're black as your hat!!!

lol!

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:50 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:He said it was down to inbreeding which he also says would have been common place... but then completely contradicts this as he then says aborigines all came from only 27 people, so inbreeding would have been rife but they're black as your hat!!!

If none of those 27 people carried the defective gene, I guess they wouldn't produce albinos. Laughing

by Tommy Monk Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:09 pm

They would after all the inbreeding.. so Veya says...

by Guest Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:14 am

Tommy Monk wrote:What about Indian people?

Similar climate, all look totally different to black people, straight hair etc...

And veya again clings to the 'official story' in the face of evidence that modern humans were in China 20,000 years before any evidence that they even existed in Africa!!!

I think it is you clinging to a story which only moves the goal posts on the timeline of many different migrations from Africa, where there is already human fossils older found in Africa of what we class as modern humans. In fact in just about every single scientific link on this latest find they all state off an earlier migration to Asia. Though how some posters think this would make Asians superior is very amusing, when again biologically races do not exist but exist as a social construct.

THE first humans to leave Africa decamped to far east Asia, not Europe. A trove of ancient teeth found in a cave in China adds evidence to the idea that humans reached the region thousands of years before they made it to Europe. The find suggests that modern humans reached China between 80,000 and 120,000 years ago. That challenges the widespread assumption that humans didn’t leave Africa until 60,000 years ago. It’s further evidence that Homo sapiens may have left Africa several times, says María Martinón-Torres of University College London. “It means we have to re-think different models of our dispersal.” Our species emerged some 200,000 years ago in Africa and didn’t make it to Europe until some 35,000 years ago. Martinón-Torres thinks that a combination of the competition from Neanderthals and the cold ice-age conditions may have kept them at bay. “Homo sapiens is a tropical species, so it was easier for them to move east than north,” she says.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22830434-400-first-humans-to-leave-africa-went-to-china-not-europe/

What is even more absurd with your posts here and immature replies to Veya, is that they are so poor and wrong because you are trying to reason off an invention you have created yourself. Where you believe wrongly that modern humans, because of this latest find, have evolved twice into modern humans, thousands of years apart and thousands of miles apart. There is no evidence for your claim and would if anything be then two separate species of humans. But we know for a fact that all humans today share a common descent. So even after testing these fossils and they find it is a new species, it would just be another dead end in the Human evolutionary family tree. If the tests reveal they are modern humans, then being as the dating of this find is thousands of years after modern humans evolved. Then all it would prove is that migrations out of Africa happened earlier. So your ability to actually understand this new find, has got you all emotionally irrational. Wrongly thinking this new evidence suddenly creates races in humans. So being as Modern humans evolved at least 200,000 years ago in Africa. So you are getting all over excited for nothing.

1. All humans living today belong to a single species, Homo sapiens, and share a common descent. Although there are differences of opinion regarding how and where different human groups diverged or fused to form new ones from a common ancestral group, all living populations in each of the earth's geographic areas have evolved from that ancestral group over the same amount of time. Much of the biological variation among populations involves modest degrees of variation in the frequency of shared traits. Human populations have at times been isolated, but have never genetically diverged enough to produce any biological barriers to mating between members of different populations.
2. Biological differences between human beings reflect both hereditary factors and the influence of natural and social environments. In most cases, these differences are due to the interaction of both. The degree to which environment or heredity affects any particular trait varies greatly.
3. There is great genetic diversity within all human populations. Pure races, in the sense of genetically homogenous populations, do not exist in the human species today, nor is there any evidence that they have ever existed in the past.
4. There are obvious physical differences between populations living in different geographic areas of the world. Some of these differences are strongly inherited and others, such as body size and shape, are strongly influenced by nutrition, way of life, and other aspects of the environment. Genetic differences between populations commonly consist of differences in the frequencies of all inherited traits, including those that are environmentally malleable.

http://www.yourgenome.org/stories/evolution-of-modern-humans

More to read on the link to help you understand why the only relevance with this find is that migrations happened earlier or this is a different human species now extinct like Neanderthals.
Next your massive school boy error on stating in regards to basing a view on how humans differ on today based on today's climate in Africa and India.

Doh

So they did not change 24 hours ago Tommy, as the Temp in Africa and Indian were very different thousands of years ago, hence why it led to migrations out of Africa. As humans left Africa. Over time the physical differences occur, where they are due to as seen already many factors.

The original Homo sapiens environment in eastern sub-Saharan Africa consisted of tropical and equatorial forests, savannahs, and riverine settings that suited their hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Over thousands of years, evolution had optimized their physical characteristics for sustained occupation of their surroundings. Their range extended from latitude 20 deg North to 35 deg South. Their heads tended to be elongated, to better support heat dissipation, and their skin, eye and hair color was likely dark, to protect against relatively high levels of UV radiation. A global cooling trend that began about 130,000 years ago caused average temperatures to drop from about 10 deg F higher than current levels to about 15 deg F lower than current levels by 70,000 years ago. During the last glacial maximum, 26,000 to 19,000 years ago, ice sheets covered much of northern Europe, northern Asia, and North America. Elsewhere during that period there were numerous mountain glaciers.

A global warming trend that began about 18,000 years ago caused glaciers to recede and brought temperatures close to current levels by 10,500 years ago. These long-term worldwide climate changes affected humidity, vegetation, sea levels and coastlines, and the distribution and abundance of animal prey. When environmental changes caused some Homo sapiens populations to migrate away from Africa, they encountered new environments and adapted their lifestyles to suit their new-found circumstances. Expanding populations tended to maintain contact with groups they had moved away from, through tribal or family connections or for access to known resources, for example chert, flint, and certain types of wood. Over tens of thousands of years, Homo sapiens traveled tens of thousands of miles and moved into habitats ranging from arid to rain forest, from sweltering hot to frigid, from sea-level to highly elevated, and from plain to mountainous. The vast distances covered, and the encounter of physical barriers that once surmounted were unlikely to be crossed again, sometimes resulted in the practical isolation of populations.

http://www.internetlooks.com/humandifferentiation.html

Now there is countless scientific information Tommy for you to read up on and actually start to begin to understand. As throughout this thread, you have looked very silly, incorrect with an inability to admit you were wrong. Especially, your link to footprints in the UK as to then claiming Modern humans evolved over a million years ago using that claim lol based off footprints. lol Of course we all know you are actively seeking to invent a view on groups of humans. To then justify prejudice and discrimination of groups of people. That is your whole intent here. That is the sad reality of your motives here and why you posted this thread. Made some very daft claims and ended up with egg on your face. Not only that you seem to think you could just ignore all the genetic evidence which proves biologically there is no races in humans. Again the races we define people by today, are a social construct.
So it is utterly sad, that you actively seek to separate humans into inferior groups and all because you can then feel justified with your prejudiced stance against groups of people. One day you will understand,
the vast majority of humans, are reliant on the world and its resources for countries to function well and efficiently. One day in the future also. Africa will end up being the bread basket of the world with farming. Will you look to distance yourself then from African nations, when you will be very much reliant on their resources?

by Tommy Monk Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:16 pm

It is theory dodge... not backed up by evidence.

by Guest Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:21 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It is theory dodge... not backed up by evidence.

The genetic evidence is a theory?
I do not think so.
So it does not matter whether modern humans evolved out of Africa or Asia. We know that by today 200,000 years later that humans have formed some distinctive physical appearances, that differ from other human groups. Even the African features formed later, as did Asian, as did white etc. It would make sense that all modern humans started out with dark skin to protect their skin from the sun, but physical features we associate with black and white developed over time. The differences between humans though is small and hence why races do not exist biologically in humans, and why it is only a social construct. So if it turned out that in fact modern humans actually evolved in Asia first and then migrated to Africa and then back out again. It would make no difference to any of the absurd points you raised. We all still descend from the same first modern humans, no matter if from Africa or Asia. All that would change is the timelines of Modern humans rise into the world would change.

There is lots of evidence to lend wait to the Out of Africa Hypothesis. Please see the link below.

http://www.worldology.com/Europe/Europe_Articles/out_of_africa.htm

One last thing there is members of the Khoisan tribe of Southern Africa who have African features but also have slant eyes. Now what did you think scientists make of that?

Laters

by Guest Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:25 pm

conjecture

by Tommy Monk Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:42 pm

That is not evidence dodge.

by Guest Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:That is not evidence dodge.

Yes it is evidence supporting the hypothesis.
Look you can continue to still deflect from the many errors you made off the back of this thread.
That was your first failing, thinking you could back your prejudices from some fossils. Failing to understand that physical features adapted over a very long time.

Anyway its evident you will not reognise you many failings here.

Cheers

by Tommy Monk Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:10 pm

I have not made any errors on this thread or any other thread... and your continual claims to the contrary do not make it true in any way!

You obviously think that if you throw enough mud then eventually some of it will stick...

by Guest Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I have not made any errors on this thread or any other thread... and your continual claims to the contrary do not make it true in any way!

You obviously think that if you throw enough mud then eventually some of it will stick...

So we all came from Africa, did we dodge? - Page 2 2686688521

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:36 am

That is you throwing so much mud you have managed to dig yourself a big hole!!!

by Guest Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:That is you throwing so much mud you have managed to dig yourself a big hole!!!

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:09 pm

by Guest Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:10 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:51 pm

Keep throwing that mud about dodge...

by Guest Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Keep throwing that mud about dodge...

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:00 pm

by Guest Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:49 pm

Didge the mud slinger...

lol!

by Guest Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Didge the mud slinger...

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:52 pm

You trying to get to Australia dodge...?

lol!

by Guest Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:53 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:You trying to get to Australia dodge...?

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:59 pm

Dodge is broken again...

by Guest Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Dodge is broken again...

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:06 pm

Digging up some more mud to throw in the hope that a bit will stick...

by stardesk Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:07 pm

Instead of slinging crap at each other do some reading and research. You'll see that the earliest human-like remains, found in Southern Africa, date back as much as 1.5 million years ago. Yes fossils have been found in Northern China, last year I believe it was, and they are not so old as the African ones.

As for the arguement about the difference between white and black etc, because of the heat and sunlight African skin is dark, and their hair is tight and curly to help protect the head from the heat. Over possibly thousands of years, as they migrated out of Africa, the skin turned lighter to allow the sun's warmth to aid them and the hair became thinner and longer allowing the warmth in, and to help keep the cold out. You'll see that many tropical males don't have the quantity of facial and body hair as white males.

I hope this note helps you folks to put the matter into the right perspective.

by Guest Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:12 pm

stardesk wrote:Instead of slinging crap at each other do some reading and research. You'll see that the earliest human-like remains, found in Southern Africa, date back as much as 1.5 million years ago. Yes fossils have been found in Northern China, last year I believe it was, and they are not so old as the African ones.

As for the arguement about the difference between white and black etc, because of the heat and sunlight African skin is dark, and their hair is tight and curly to help protect the head from the heat. Over possibly thousands of years, as they migrated out of Africa, the skin turned lighter to allow the sun's warmth to aid them and the hair became thinner and longer allowing the warmth in, and to help keep the cold out. You'll see that many tropical males don't have the quantity of facial and body hair as white males.

I hope this note helps you folks to put the matter into the right perspective.

Hi Stardesk

You are speaking of other extinct humanoid species that have died out. So the hypothesis with the strongest evidence suggests Africa, for the birth of modern humans. Even if it did end up being Asia, it would not change that we all descend back from a common ancestor. If it did turn out to be Asia, then the timeline would have to be extended. To modern humans evolving far earlier.

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