Disabled dad told he is fit to work TWO WEEKS before death

Diabetic David O'Mar, of Cardiff, was lying in a hospital bed with pneumonia when the DWP made its decision

A disabled dad died two weeks ­after being judged fit for work as he lay in hospital with pneumonia

Diabetic David O’Mar was stripped of his disability benefits in April after a work ­capability assessment for Iain Duncan Smith’s hated Department for Work and Pensions.

His daughter Alexandra believes he is one of the growing number of victims of brutal government policies.

She is calling on officials at the DWP – as well as Prime Minister David Cameron – to make good on their pledge to reveal how many deaths are linked to cuts.

David, 58, was bed-bound in hospital on the date of a tribunal to decide whether he should carry on getting ­disability benefits or was well enough to look for a job.

Despite family pleas to reschedule, the court ruled the former radio DJ fit for work.

He died of pneumonia on April 29.

Alexandra told the Sunday People.: “It ­definitely affected him. I think it’s ­disgusting they stopped somebody’s ­benefits who genuinely ­needed them.”

She is demanding the release of government ­statistics showing how many people have died within six weeks of being ruled fit for work and losing their benefits.

Mr Duncan Smith once claimed the figures did not even exist.

But in a climbdown this week, Mr Cameron told MPs that the data is “being prepared for publication as we speak”.

A string of deaths are feared to have been caused by cuts. Stephanie Bottrill, 53, of Solihull, West Midlands, killed herself in May 2013 and left a note ­blaming the bedroom tax.

She was worried about paying an extra £20 a week to stay in her home.

Diabetic David Clapson, 59, died of a lack of insulin after his Jobseeker’s Allowance was axed over a missed appointment.

The ex-soldier had just £3.44 in his bank and could not afford electricity to power the fridge where he kept vital doses.

As the Government prepares a further £12billion a year in ­welfare cuts, campaigners fear there are many more ­victims – including David O’Mar.

Before he fell ill the dad-of-three, of Cardiff, had a £400 bill from the council for unpaid rent after his housing benefit was cut.

He attended a job centre in March for a work ­capability test, which found he had “limited” ability to work and he had his £100-a-week Employment Support Allowance stopped from April 1.

David appealed but caught pneumonia shortly ­afterwards and was ­admitted to Llandough hospital, Cardiff.

He only found out the date of his appeal when his ­daughter went to pick up things from his flat and found a summons.

Shop worker Alexandra, 26, called the court and was
told to write ­requesting a postponement, which she did.

She said: “I explained the situation and he’d had notes from the doctors about his ­condition.

“But then I received a ­letter saying it wasn’t a good enough reason.

“My dad said: ‘Fine, wheel me into court on my bed then’. He had a great sense of humour. But it was hard to see him suffer with this on top.”

Later that week he had the letter saying his disability benefit had been cut.

David was well enough to ­return home for a few days and his mum Margaret Moore, 78, travelled from Somerset, where she lives with her ­partner, to care for him. Mrs Moore was optimistic he would recover in time for his 59th birthday on July 19.

But she said: “He couldn’t walk. He couldn’t see. He was in a ­terrible state.

“By the end of the week he was back in ­hospital then he just deteriorated. How was he supposed to work? Something has got to change for people like David.”

Divorced David was nicknamed Dai Poland because he once ran a radio station in the east European country.

When he returned to Wales in 2003 he worked as a football talent scout for Derby County and Burton Albion.

He also threw himself into charity work, collecting hundreds of football shirts to send to orphanages in Moldova and Ukraine for Christmas in 2012.

Alexandra added: “He had a great life, travelling around and helping kids.

“But I would still like some answers from the courts and the judge. Why did they think he could do ­anything? He could barely walk. I don’t want that to happen to anybody else.”

A DWP spokesman said: “Our thoughts are with Mr O’Mar’s family. It’s wrong to suggest a causal link between the death of an individual and their benefit claim.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/disabled-dad-told-fit-work-6093870#ICID=sharebar_twitter

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This makes me wild

Why wasn't medical evidence submitted enough?

Who the hell do these people think they are? They carry on like its
their own money.

All they had to do was confirm with the hospital, but of course that would have been one more person getting the benefit would should have had it but would have messed up their targets for refusing people.

The work capability assessment (WCA) was launched for new claimants by the Labour government in 2008...

This is a sad and horrible story. Don't mean to keep harping on but it's the same shit they did to my dad.

eddie wrote:This is a sad and horrible story. Don't mean to keep harping on but it's the same shit they did to my dad.

And are still doing to people Edds.

Nems wrote:

eddie wrote:This is a sad and horrible story. Don't mean to keep harping on but it's the same shit they did to my dad.

And are still doing to people Edds.

It's absolute madness nems, and yet I'm reading today that the UK government has just approved a farm that breeds beagles for animal testing!
Way to spend our fucking money!

eddie wrote:

Nems wrote:

And are still doing to people Edds.

It's absolute madness nems, and yet I'm reading today that the UK government has just approved a farm that breeds beagles for animal testing!
Way to spend our fucking money!

FFS
They really are the lowest of the low

eddie wrote:

Nems wrote:

And are still doing to people Edds.

It's absolute madness nems, and yet I'm reading today that the UK government has just approved a farm that breeds beagles for animal testing!
Way to spend our fucking money!

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10596-controversial-puppy-breeding-farm-gets-go-ahead

eddie wrote:This is a sad and horrible story. Don't mean to keep harping on but it's the same shit they did to my dad.

It`s NOT harping on
it is completely right and essential that cases like your dads are not swept under the carpet and forgotten about or minimised in any way

Don`t you dare think other wise you have no reason to feel guilty for telling the truth

Tommy Monk wrote:


The work capability assessment (WCA) was launched for new claimants by the Labour government in 2008...

And?

and yet.......there IS a better way

If atos find you fit to work, you appeal with your doctor fighting your corner for you, and then if you really are unfit for work then you win the appeal...


Unfortunately because under labour, too many people are blagging the system, and faking illness to avoid work, tougher measures to assess fitness to work were needed to be brought in and were brought in by labour...

Completely and utterly wrong.

Prove it of shut up!

You made the assertion, you prove it. Benefit fraud is only 0.7%.

Tommy Monk wrote:

If atos find you fit to work, you appeal with your doctor fighting your corner for you, and then if you really are unfit for work then you win the appeal...


Unfortunately because under labour, too many people are blagging the system, and faking illness to avoid work, tougher measures to assess fitness to work were needed to be brought in and were brought in by labour...

more complete and utter bollux from Tommy as the hundreds of cases prove including edd`s personal account
i think we all agree you shouldn't`t really comment on things you know fuck all about

and once again labours fault
honestly i wish you would just fuck of back to what ever shit hole you climbed out of

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

If atos find you fit to work, you appeal with your doctor fighting your corner for you, and then if you really are unfit for work then you win the appeal...


Unfortunately because under labour, too many people are blagging the system, and faking illness to avoid work, tougher measures to assess fitness to work were needed to be brought in and were brought in by labour...

more complete and utter bollux from Tommy as the hundreds of cases prove including edd`s personal account
i think we all agree you shouldn't`t really comment on things you know fuck all about

and once again labours fault
honestly i wish you would just fuck of back to what ever shit hole you climbed out of

seconded

Sickness benefit appeals up by 70%….

‘Chaos is looming’

Latest statistics from Her Majesty’s Courts & Tribunals Service (HMCTS) reveal that the DWP’s increasingly controversial Employment & Support Allowance is leading to a massive surge in the numbers of appeals lodged with independent Tribunals.  The Ministry of Justice figures can be read here and confirm that for the period July to September 2012 the number of appeals was up by 69% on the same quarter on the previous year.  Benefit appeals are now accounting for 58% of all cases received for appeals across all Tribunals – an alarming increase.

The Ministry of Justice figures exhibits all the signs of impending chaos with a staggering 813,500 tribunal cases in total; an increase on the previous year when the number had already exceeded three quarters of a million appeal cases.

The number of Employment & Support Allowance appeal receipts is of particular concern, in the year 2011/2012 a total of 181,000 appeals were received by the Tribunals. In the first six months of 2012/2013 the figure has shot up to 133,700 indicating that these appeals alone are well on track to exceed a quarter of a million by year end.

42% of DWP decisions in ESA cases are wrong!

By comparison with the second quarter of 2009/2010 when Employment & Support Allowance (ESA) appeal receipts stood at 29,000 – the same quarter in 2012/2013 has zoomed up to 73,700 – an increase of 44,700.  Of the 53,200 ESA cases cleared at an appeal hearing 22,500 (42%) were found in favour of the claimant.  These figures highlight ongoing problems with the standards of decision – making following Atos ‘Work Capability Assessments’ – the DWP is still making an unacceptably large number of incorrect decisions.  

Total number of benefit appeals now on track to exceed 600,000 by the end of the year!

The total number of benefit appeal cases for 2012/2013 has already reached a wholly unacceptable figure of 308,200 meaning that if the trend continues, and there is every sign it will, the total number of benefit appeals alone will have reached well over 600,000 by the end of the year.

Cases outstanding (all) – 813,800  – chaos!

The total number of benefit appeal case ‘outstanding’ in 2008/2009 was 53,200 in the second quarter and has now more than trebled to 158,700 in the second quarter of 2012/2013.  A comparison with the figures for 2007/2008 when the figure stood at 347,100 shows the numbers have increased to a colossal 813,800 in 2012/2013. the number of employment tribunal cases outstanding as of the second quarter stands at 570,200, benefit cases stand at 158,700 in 2012/2013 and immigration & asylum cases at 41,000 – this is absolute chaos!

Exceeding the warnings given by the judiciary….

In a report issued in February 2012 provided by the Tribunal president  the judiciary gave the following breakdown of benefit appeal cases in the first – tier Tribunal and made the following predictions for increases in the appeal load:

Annual Intake of SSCS Appeals

2008-09 – 242,800

2009-10 – 339,200

2010-11 – 418,500

(forecast)

2011-12 – 421,609

2012-13 – 483,400

2013-14 – 576,700

2014-15 – 644,000

These latest figures show we are well on track to break past the 483,400 forecast for 2012/2013 and exceed the figure given for 2013/2014.  

The full effect of welfare reform changes has yet to hit the fan, the bedroom tax, more ESA cases, JSA sanctions (standing at 700,000), Disability Living Allowance giving way to Personal Independence Payments are all in the line up and will undoubtedly lead to the Tribunal president’s forecast being considerably exceeded.

Government and the DWP has to stop pretending that there is not a perfect storm brewing here, mandatory revision before appeal is only keeping the dispute out of the public’s attention in a pretence that the people who create the problems will somehow fix it.  The DWP is assessing twice as many ESA claimants as it needs to just to claim double its dubious ‘results’.  In reality the vast majority of those who flow off ESA and incapacity benefits are flowing straight back on to them shortly afterwards – government has no other credible explanation as to why after assessing over 2.8 million claimants between 2008 and 2012 the claimant count has barely reduced by little more than 70,000 – it’s derisory and half that achieved by way of reductions under the older incapacity benefits regime.  

The fact is that we were seeing much better reductions under the older incapacity benefits.  Government is using severely disabled claimants to manipulate its figures by its recycling of what can only be the same claimants.  It stands to reason that if vast numbers were really being ‘found fit for work’ the Jobseeker’s Allowance claimant count would have rocketed up to an embarrassingly high level which this government simply cannot afford to show.  

After coming off ESA claimants are being re-directed back on to it by Jobcentres who can clearly see these claimants are no where near ready for the labour markets.

Government’s mismanagement of the ESA reassessment programme:

There’s any number of statistical charts on here which you can muse over all day long.  

In doing so just apply the logic:

(1) We start with 2.6 million on the sick in 2008

(2) Various claims are made by the DWP/media of 75%, 50% and more recently 33% being found ‘fit for work’

(3) In 2012 we have 488,000 claimants waiting to be assessed

(4) In 2012 we have a Jobseeker’s Allowance queue that’s hardly grown

(5) By 2012 – 2.7 million have been subjected to Work Capability Assessments

(6) By 2012 – 3.8 million is the total number ‘case loaded’ through ESA

(7) By 2012 we are on track to break all previous appeal records with more hidden from view at the DWP

( In 2012 there are twice as many claiming on the sick as there were in 2006

(9) By 2012 the claimant count for those on the sick has trickled down by a mere 70K, still leaving us with….

                             Around 2.6 million ‘on the sick’?

(10) This wretched scheme is rapidly emerging as an absolute farce which is being used as a vehicle to keep the long term sick numbers down; thus keeping them from the long term ‘economically inactive’ count used by the ONS to work out the numbers said to unemployed.

They have engineered themselves a clever way of marshalling the unemployment figure to one which is more ‘commensurate’ with the chancellor’s increasingly doubtful claims that we are ‘on the way’ to economic growth.

Tommy Monk wrote:

If atos find you fit to work, you appeal with your doctor fighting your corner for you, and then if you really are unfit for work then you win the appeal...


Unfortunately because under labour, too many people are blagging the system, and faking illness to avoid work, tougher measures to assess fitness to work were needed to be brought in and were brought in by labour...

That does seem to be what happens Tommy. It can't be too easy for people to claim, otherwise too many people would do it.

The Government’s crackdown on disability benefit payments has cost the taxpayer more than £66m in appeals, it emerged on Sunday.

Figures released to the Labour Party showed that the cost of tribunals hearing employment and support allowance (ESA) appeals trebled from £21m in 2009/10 to £66m in 2012/13.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/crackdownon-disability-benefits-costs-taxpayer-66m-in-appeals-costs-8724779.html

That 0.7% is only an estimate because most of The fraud is going on undetected...



The as the JSA system has been tightened up, more people get on The sick as an easy option...

Pathetic.

So what happens if someone is judged fit to work? Do they go on JSA instead.

Tommy Monk wrote:That 0.7% is only an estimate because most of The fraud is going on undetected...



The as the JSA system has been tightened up, more people get on The sick as an easy option...

I think there are cases where some people are originally unable to work, but then their condition improves but they don't say so. That's why checks are necessary.

Tommy Monk wrote:That 0.7% is only an estimate because most of The fraud is going on undetected...



The as the JSA system has been tightened up, more people get on The sick as an easy option...

what a fucking stupid argument

yet Tommy knows because he is so fucking clever


undetected
ʌndɪˈtɛktɪd/
adjective
adjective: undetected

not detected or discovered.

unicorns do exist they are just not detected or discovered.

moron

Tommy Monk wrote:

If atos find you fit to work, you appeal with your doctor fighting your corner for you, and then if you really are unfit for work then you win the appeal...

rubbish as evidenced above


Unfortunately because under labour, too many people are blagging the system, and faking illness to avoid work, tougher measures to assess fitness to work were needed to be brought in and were brought in by labour...

However it was under the coalition that ATOS was let loose upon the sick and disabled, with the tories calling the shots as to targets

"From 2012 - 2015, Atos Healthcare was part of a serious controversy in the UK over Work Capability Assessment introduced in 2008 to determine who should receive employment and support allowance. Decisions were taken by officials at the DWP using evidence from the assessments carried out by Atos Healthcare.[6]

and therein lies the truth , that the present sorry state of affairs is SOLEY down to an enduring hatred and contempt of the less fortunate by a greedy, sick and enduringly dishonourable bunch of overpaid tory toffs.....

and tommy monk licks their boots......

victorismyhero wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

If atos find you fit to work, you appeal with your doctor fighting your corner for you, and then if you really are unfit for work then you win the appeal...

rubbish as evidenced above


Unfortunately because under labour, too many people are blagging the system, and faking illness to avoid work, tougher measures to assess fitness to work were needed to be brought in and were brought in by labour...

However it was under the coalition that ATOS was let loose upon the sick and disabled, with the tories calling the shots as to targets

"From 2012 - 2015, Atos Healthcare was part of a serious controversy in the UK over Work Capability Assessment introduced in 2008 to determine who should receive employment and support allowance. Decisions were taken by officials at the DWP using evidence from the assessments carried out by Atos Healthcare.[6]

and therein lies the truth , that the present sorry state of affairs is SOLEY down to an enduring hatred and contempt of the less fortunate by a greedy, sick and enduringly dishonourable bunch of overpaid tory toffs.....

and tommy monk licks their boots......

Boots ? sphincter is perhaps more accurate

victorismyhero wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

If atos find you fit to work, you appeal with your doctor fighting your corner for you, and then if you really are unfit for work then you win the appeal...

rubbish as evidenced above


Unfortunately because under labour, too many people are blagging the system, and faking illness to avoid work, tougher measures to assess fitness to work were needed to be brought in and were brought in by labour...

However it was under the coalition that ATOS was let loose upon the sick and disabled, with the tories calling the shots as to targets

"From 2012 - 2015, Atos Healthcare was part of a serious controversy in the UK over Work Capability Assessment introduced in 2008 to determine who should receive employment and support allowance. Decisions were taken by officials at the DWP using evidence from the assessments carried out by Atos Healthcare.[6]

and therein lies the truth , that the present sorry state of affairs is SOLEY down to an enduring hatred and contempt of the less fortunate by a greedy, sick and enduringly dishonourable bunch of overpaid tory toffs.....

and tommy monk licks their boots......

Licks them? He swallows.

Why the abuse aimed at Tommy? I suppose you want a forum where everyone agrees all the time. I hope this isn't yet another attempt to drive someone off here.

Raggamuffin wrote:Why the abuse aimed at Tommy? I suppose you want a forum where everyone agrees all the time. I hope this isn't yet another attempt to drive someone off here.

if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen

Raggamuffin wrote:So what happens if someone is judged fit to work? Do they go on JSA instead.

Yes, you get a phone call from northern Ireland where the benefits offices are based, they tell you that a decision has been made on your appeal against you and you have been found fit to work as of that moment and they then transfer you straight to the JSA team to make a new JSA claim.


If you have any other information to tell them before being transferred then they listen to it but if it is not anything substantial then the transfer to JSA is done.


One of my old friends was getting so much trouble on JSA that he went to doctors and got diagnosed with depression and went straight on ESA...


To be fair... he is a bit messed up and not really fit to work... but It is mostly self inflicted... he went to a party about ten years ago and thinks he's still there!!!


This is the one I was talking about the other day who just got a three month sanction for not turning up to yet another course as instructed by the job centre.

Further to a question I asked in another thread - which nobody bothered with - re whether applicants were required to make all efforts to improve their condition, it seems that they are not.

Those with mental health issues could get some improvement if they tried medication, and there are apparently plans to try to get them to do so.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10964125/Tories-discuss-stripping-benefits-claimants-who-refuse-treatment-for-depression.html

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Why the abuse aimed at Tommy? I suppose you want a forum where everyone agrees all the time. I hope this isn't yet another attempt to drive someone off here.

if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen

That could apply to you too. This habit you and others have of assuming that only your opinion is valid is becoming rather tiresome.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:So what happens if someone is judged fit to work? Do they go on JSA instead.

Yes, you get a phone call from northern Ireland where the benefits offices are based, they tell you that a decision has been made on your appeal against you and you have been found fit to work as of that moment and they then transfer you straight to the JSA team to make a new JSA claim.


If you have any other information to tell them before being transferred then they listen to it but if it is not anything substantial then the transfer to JSA is done.


One of my old friends was getting so much trouble on JSA that he went to doctors and got diagnosed with depression and went straight on ESA...


To be fair... he is a bit messed up and not really fit to work... but It is mostly self inflicted... he went to a party about ten years ago and thinks he's still there!!!


This is the one I was talking about the other day who just got a three month sanction for not turning up to yet another course as instructed by the job centre.

So they still get benefits - just not quite so much money.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:So what happens if someone is judged fit to work? Do they go on JSA instead.

Yes, you get a phone call from northern Ireland where the benefits offices are based, they tell you that a decision has been made on your appeal against you and you have been found fit to work as of that moment and they then transfer you straight to the JSA team to make a new JSA claim.


If you have any other information to tell them before being transferred then they listen to it but if it is not anything substantial then the transfer to JSA is done.


One of my old friends was getting so much trouble on JSA that he went to doctors and got diagnosed with depression and went straight on ESA...


To be fair... he is a bit messed up and not really fit to work... but It is mostly self inflicted... he went to a party about ten years ago and thinks he's still there!!!


This is the one I was talking about the other day who just got a three month sanction for not turning up to yet another course as instructed by the job centre.

Nope
When you first make a claim for ESA you are placed in the Assessment phase whilst a decision is made about whether you are eligible for either the work-related activity group or the support group in the main phase of ESA

It's some of you weirdos who like playing the old 'rusty tronbone'!!!







Don't worry about me rags... I speak the truth!!!


They can call me whatever they like but they can't change the truth!!!

korban dallas wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Yes, you get a phone call from northern Ireland where the benefits offices are based, they tell you that a decision has been made on your appeal against you and you have been found fit to work as of that moment and they then transfer you straight to the JSA team to make a new JSA claim.


If you have any other information to tell them before being transferred then they listen to it but if it is not anything substantial then the transfer to JSA is done.


One of my old friends was getting so much trouble on JSA that he went to doctors and got diagnosed with depression and went straight on ESA...


To be fair... he is a bit messed up and not really fit to work... but It is mostly self inflicted... he went to a party about ten years ago and thinks he's still there!!!


This is the one I was talking about the other day who just got a three month sanction for not turning up to yet another course as instructed by the job centre.

Nope
When you first make a claim for ESA you are placed in the Assessment phase whilst a decision is made about whether you are eligible for either the work-related activity group or the support group in the main phase of ESA

You get paid ESA in the meantime though, yes?

Tommy Monk wrote:It's some of you weirdos who like playing the old 'rusty tronbone'!!!







Don't worry about me rags... I speak the truth!!!


They can call me whatever they like but they can't change the truth!!!

Oh I know you can stand up for yourself Tommy, but that's not the point. The point is that some people here are swanning around this forum with the attitude that they're better than anyone else, and that the opinions of those who disagree with them are invalid.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
Nope
When you first make a claim for ESA you are placed in the Assessment phase whilst a decision is made about whether you are eligible for either the work-related activity group or the support group in the main phase of ESA

You get paid ESA in the meantime though, yes?

You’ll normally get the assessment rate for 13 weeks after your claim. This will be:

up to £57.90 a week if you’re aged under 25
up to £73.10 a week if you’re aged 25 or over
much the sameas JSA i think

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:It's some of you weirdos who like playing the old 'rusty tronbone'!!!







Don't worry about me rags... I speak the truth!!!


They can call me whatever they like but they can't change the truth!!!

Oh I know you can stand up for yourself Tommy, but that's not the point. The point is that some people here are swanning around this forum with the attitude that they're better than anyone else, and that the opinions of those who disagree with them are invalid.

I don`t swan I saunter

So let's take the case of someone who applies for ESA because they have depression. There appears to be no requirement for them to try any kind of treatment at the moment, and yet it is a treatable condition. Should it not be a requirement that they seek treatment and are compliant?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Yes, you get a phone call from northern Ireland where the benefits offices are based, they tell you that a decision has been made on your appeal against you and you have been found fit to work as of that moment and they then transfer you straight to the JSA team to make a new JSA claim.


If you have any other information to tell them before being transferred then they listen to it but if it is not anything substantial then the transfer to JSA is done.


One of my old friends was getting so much trouble on JSA that he went to doctors and got diagnosed with depression and went straight on ESA...


To be fair... he is a bit messed up and not really fit to work... but It is mostly self inflicted... he went to a party about ten years ago and thinks he's still there!!!


This is the one I was talking about the other day who just got a three month sanction for not turning up to yet another course as instructed by the job centre.

So they still get benefits - just not quite so much money.

THe starting point of ESA payments is the same as you would have got on JSA, only you don't have to attend any signing on appointments or back to work courses etc... nice!!!


Peace and quiet for a while!!!

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You get paid ESA in the meantime though, yes?

You’ll normally get the assessment rate for 13 weeks after your claim. This will be:

   up to £57.90 a week if you’re aged under 25
   up to £73.10 a week if you’re aged 25 or over
much the sameas JSA i think

So they do get paid straightaway then.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:It's some of you weirdos who like playing the old 'rusty tronbone'!!!







Don't worry about me rags... I speak the truth!!!


They can call me whatever they like but they can't change the truth!!!

Oh I know you can stand up for yourself Tommy, but that's not the point. The point is that some people here are swanning around this forum with the attitude that they're better than anyone else, and that the opinions of those who disagree with them are invalid.

Oh, that'll be the lefties... who also constantly complain that it is others who are doing that...


Hypocrisy anyone...!!!???

Raggamuffin wrote:Further to a question I asked in another thread - which nobody bothered with - re whether applicants were required to make all efforts to improve their condition, it seems that they are not.

Those with mental health issues could get some improvement if they tried medication, and there are apparently plans to try to get them to do so.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10964125/Tories-discuss-stripping-benefits-claimants-who-refuse-treatment-for-depression.html

ohhh and here we see the R/W intent ..

enforced medication...

perhaps even forced experimentation with new and untested drugs.....


bet that would suit you down to the ground ragga

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So they still get benefits - just not quite so much money.

THe starting point of ESA payments is the same as you would have got on JSA, only you don't have to attend any signing on appointments or back to work courses etc... nice!!!


Peace and quiet for a while!!!

What about permitted work? It is possible to do some work whilst claiming ESA, but does that apply to the assessment stage? If it does, what is to stop someone applying for ESA whilst working and getting it at least until the assessment stage is finished?

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
You’ll normally get the assessment rate for 13 weeks after your claim. This will be:

   up to £57.90 a week if you’re aged under 25
   up to £73.10 a week if you’re aged 25 or over
much the sameas JSA i think

So they do get paid straightaway then.

yes same as you would going on to JSA is that a problem ?

Tommy Monk wrote:It's some of you weirdos who like playing the old 'rusty tronbone'!!!







Don't worry about me rags... I speak the truth!!!


They can call me whatever they like but they can't change the truth!!!

which you conveniently ignore

victorismyhero wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Further to a question I asked in another thread - which nobody bothered with - re whether applicants were required to make all efforts to improve their condition, it seems that they are not.

Those with mental health issues could get some improvement if they tried medication, and there are apparently plans to try to get them to do so.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10964125/Tories-discuss-stripping-benefits-claimants-who-refuse-treatment-for-depression.html

ohhh and here we see the R/W intent ..

enforced medication...

perhaps even forced experimentation with new and untested drugs.....


bet that would suit you down to the ground ragga

Not enforced as such, but a condition of receiving benefits. I see no problem with this. Such conditions are often treatable with great success. There's no point someone sitting there on benefits being depressed if they can get treatment and get well enough to work, right?