Stitching-up claimants is all part of the job, says Jobcentre insider

by Guest Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

Last week Iain Duncan Smith met a whistle-blower who has worked for his Department for Work and Pensions for more than 20 years.

Giving the Secretary of State a dossier of evidence, the former Jobcentre Plus adviser told him of a “brutal and bullying” culture of “setting claimants up to fail”.

“The pressure to sanction customers was constant,” he said. “It led to people being stitched-up on a daily basis.”

The man wishes to be anonymous but gave his details to IDS, DWP minister Esther McVey and Neil Couling, Head of Jobcentre Plus, who also attended the meeting.

“We were constantly told ‘agitate the customer’ and that ‘any engagement with the customer is an opportunity to sanction’,” he told them.

Labour MP Debbie Abrahams, the member of the DWP Select Committee who set up the meeting, has renewed her call for an inquiry into inappropriate sanctioning.

“I am deeply concerned that sanctions are being used to create the illusion the Government is bringing down unemployment,” she said.

Sanctions pre-date the Coalition as a way of ensuring benefit claimants, who include the jobless and sick and disabled people on Employment Support Allowance, attend appointments and apply for jobs. But under the Tory-led Government, they have soared – to 897,690 a year from the most recent data.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stitching-up-claimants-part-job-says-3537051

from May last year...but no better if not worse Now....

and you wonder why I consider those who work for this shameful organisation to be entirely without honour...

In fact come the revolution i would put them against the brick wall first...

IDS and his troupe of performing monkeys are merely self seeking low lifes

these people are traitors to their own.......

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:57 pm

korban dallas wrote:C1 Bloomsbury £450 pw (22) £636 pw (20) £1,157 pw (6) £1,650 pw (1)
WC2 Covent Garden £493 pw (13) £972 pw (5) £1,317 pw (6) £1,300 pw (1)
EC1 City of London £480 pw (24) £625 pw (36) £813 pw (3) £995 pw (1)
W1 Central London £561 pw (50) £850 pw (65) £1,429 pw (14) £2,278 pw (10)
W2 Paddington £456 pw (65) £640 pw (59) £1,183 pw (27) £1,332 pw (9)
W3 Acton £334 pw ( £396 pw (18) £505 pw (4) £709 pw (7)
W4 Chiswick £341 pw (25) £489 pw (35) £622 pw (15) £940 pw (14)
W5 Ealing £318 pw (5) £392 pw (22) £489 pw (12) £805 pw (15)
W6 Hammersmith £356 pw (14) £480 pw (28) £597 pw (5) £1,234 pw (4)
W8 Kensington £458 pw (15) £1,346 pw (41) £1,478 pw (17) £2,059 pw (5)
W9 Maida Vale £361 pw (12) £581 pw (42) £745 pw (26) £1,305 pw (2)
W10 North Kensington £403 pw (14) £490 pw (11)
W11 Notting Hill £525 pw (31) £866 pw (19) £1,150 pw (3) £2,250 pw (1)
W12 Shepherd's Bush £359 pw (9) £452 pw (15) £683 pw (7) £800 pw (3)
W13 West Ealing £270 pw (6) £367 pw ( £479 pw (4) £606 pw (2)
W14 West Kensington £390 pw (23) £512 pw (40) £762 pw (11) £880 pw (3)
NW1 Camden £408 pw (29) £598 pw (47) £1,051 pw (16) £1,735 pw (11)
NW2 Cricklewood £299 pw (10) £412 pw (24) £594 pw (10) £1,125 pw (2)
NW3 Hampstead £399 pw (25) £588 pw (69) £829 pw (32) £1,371 pw (
NW4 Hendon £251 pw (7) £343 pw ( £393 pw (4) £695 pw (1)
NW6 Kilburn £352 pw (31) £487 pw (43) £649 pw (23) £1,239 pw (7)
NW7 Mill Hill £258 pw (6) £348 pw (29) £437 pw (10) £1,163 pw (6)
NW8 St Johns Wood £437 pw (49) £598 pw (61) £1,206 pw (41) £2,191 pw (15)
NW10 Willesden £294 pw (3) £417 pw (5) £517 pw (6) £967 pw (9)
NW11 Golders Green £308 pw (2) £406 pw (14) £699 pw (6) £1,135 pw (7)
SW1 Westminster £503 pw (55) £827 pw (58) £2,028 pw (23) £2,198 pw (10)
SW2 Brixton £318 pw (5) £361 pw (16) £454 pw (9) £734 pw (4)
SW3 Chelsea £534 pw (41) £816 pw (42) £1,721 pw (9) £3,325 pw (6)
SW4 Clapham £351 pw (11) £437 pw (18) £709 pw (5) £869 pw (3)
SW5 Earls Court £469 pw (25) £689 pw (42) £928 pw (11) £1,600 pw (1)
SW6 Fulham £373 pw (34) £474 pw (66) £624 pw (22) £1,160 pw (21)
SW7 South Kensington £548 pw (26) £836 pw (56) £1,880 pw (27) £2,677 pw (11)
SW8 South Lambeth £352 pw (21) £499 pw (24) £788 pw (4) £673 pw (2)
SW9 Stockwell £325 pw (12) £399 pw (11) £582 pw (7) £636 pw (5)
SW10 West Brompton £408 pw (26) £649 pw (31) £1,078 pw (11) £1,768 pw (5)
SW11 Battersea £404 pw (30) £511 pw (49) £604 pw (15) £942 pw (
SW12 Balham £348 pw (7) £378 pw (14) £512 pw (6) £845 pw (6)
SW15 Putney £357 pw (56) £408 pw (80) £557 pw (25) £721 pw (21)
SW16 Streatham £284 pw (14) £339 pw (29) £427 pw (9) £626 pw (11)
SW17 Tooting £310 pw (19) £387 pw (41) £499 pw (17) £680 pw (13)

I would love to live in some of those places but unfortunately my wages won't allow it...

But if you Are an unemployed foreigner you can live in these places because housing benefit will pick up the bill!!!

Meaning people like me have to face 2-3 hours commuting every day and suffer the costs of this...

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:08 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:45 hours on min wage = just under £300 a week before tax... but then you will only pay tax on about £100 of that so take home pay is about £270.

I could live on that.
what do you pay in rent tommy you live in London area right ? average rents about 1500 ?

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jun/15/london-rents-homelet-survey-housing-crisis

£1500 a month!!!???

Are you mad!!!???

Only an unemployed foreigner would be able to live in a place that costs that much!!!

lol!

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
korban dallas wrote:C1 Bloomsbury £450 pw (22) £636 pw (20) £1,157 pw (6) £1,650 pw (1)
WC2 Covent Garden £493 pw (13) £972 pw (5) £1,317 pw (6) £1,300 pw (1)
EC1 City of London £480 pw (24) £625 pw (36) £813 pw (3) £995 pw (1)
W1 Central London £561 pw (50) £850 pw (65) £1,429 pw (14) £2,278 pw (10)
W2 Paddington £456 pw (65) £640 pw (59) £1,183 pw (27) £1,332 pw (9)
W3 Acton £334 pw ( £396 pw (18) £505 pw (4) £709 pw (7)
W4 Chiswick £341 pw (25) £489 pw (35) £622 pw (15) £940 pw (14)
W5 Ealing £318 pw (5) £392 pw (22) £489 pw (12) £805 pw (15)
W6 Hammersmith £356 pw (14) £480 pw (28) £597 pw (5) £1,234 pw (4)
W8 Kensington £458 pw (15) £1,346 pw (41) £1,478 pw (17) £2,059 pw (5)
W9 Maida Vale £361 pw (12) £581 pw (42) £745 pw (26) £1,305 pw (2)
W10 North Kensington £403 pw (14) £490 pw (11)
W11 Notting Hill £525 pw (31) £866 pw (19) £1,150 pw (3) £2,250 pw (1)
W12 Shepherd's Bush £359 pw (9) £452 pw (15) £683 pw (7) £800 pw (3)
W13 West Ealing £270 pw (6) £367 pw ( £479 pw (4) £606 pw (2)
W14 West Kensington £390 pw (23) £512 pw (40) £762 pw (11) £880 pw (3)
NW1 Camden £408 pw (29) £598 pw (47) £1,051 pw (16) £1,735 pw (11)
NW2 Cricklewood £299 pw (10) £412 pw (24) £594 pw (10) £1,125 pw (2)
NW3 Hampstead £399 pw (25) £588 pw (69) £829 pw (32) £1,371 pw (
NW4 Hendon £251 pw (7) £343 pw ( £393 pw (4) £695 pw (1)
NW6 Kilburn £352 pw (31) £487 pw (43) £649 pw (23) £1,239 pw (7)
NW7 Mill Hill £258 pw (6) £348 pw (29) £437 pw (10) £1,163 pw (6)
NW8 St Johns Wood £437 pw (49) £598 pw (61) £1,206 pw (41) £2,191 pw (15)
NW10 Willesden £294 pw (3) £417 pw (5) £517 pw (6) £967 pw (9)
NW11 Golders Green £308 pw (2) £406 pw (14) £699 pw (6) £1,135 pw (7)
SW1 Westminster £503 pw (55) £827 pw (58) £2,028 pw (23) £2,198 pw (10)
SW2 Brixton £318 pw (5) £361 pw (16) £454 pw (9) £734 pw (4)
SW3 Chelsea £534 pw (41) £816 pw (42) £1,721 pw (9) £3,325 pw (6)
SW4 Clapham £351 pw (11) £437 pw (18) £709 pw (5) £869 pw (3)
SW5 Earls Court £469 pw (25) £689 pw (42) £928 pw (11) £1,600 pw (1)
SW6 Fulham £373 pw (34) £474 pw (66) £624 pw (22) £1,160 pw (21)
SW7 South Kensington £548 pw (26) £836 pw (56) £1,880 pw (27) £2,677 pw (11)
SW8 South Lambeth £352 pw (21) £499 pw (24) £788 pw (4) £673 pw (2)
SW9 Stockwell £325 pw (12) £399 pw (11) £582 pw (7) £636 pw (5)
SW10 West Brompton £408 pw (26) £649 pw (31) £1,078 pw (11) £1,768 pw (5)
SW11 Battersea £404 pw (30) £511 pw (49) £604 pw (15) £942 pw (
SW12 Balham £348 pw (7) £378 pw (14) £512 pw (6) £845 pw (6)
SW15 Putney £357 pw (56) £408 pw (80) £557 pw (25) £721 pw (21)
SW16 Streatham £284 pw (14) £339 pw (29) £427 pw (9) £626 pw (11)
SW17 Tooting £310 pw (19) £387 pw (41) £499 pw (17) £680 pw (13)

I would love to live in some of those places but unfortunately my wages won't allow it...

But if you Are an unemployed foreigner you can live in these places because housing benefit will pick up the bill!!!

Meaning people like me have to face 2-3 hours commuting every day and suffer the costs of this...

And how it that any cheaper Tommy? For example, Colchester/Liverpool Street is over £7000 a year, and that's if you can fork out for an annual ticket, buying weekly costs more. So how you going pay for that out of your £270 a week? That's £134 a week.

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:24 pm

What the fuck has Colchester got to do with anything...!?

I live in southeast London/Kent border... weekly travelcard is about £45 last time I checked...

And journey time is between one and one&half hours each way into a central London destination.

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:31 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No, you have misunderstood. I don't feel mocked and abused - it's you who thinks I should feel that way simply because I get clothes from charity shops.

wind that neck in
you said you where mocked and that was the point i was making people get mocked for buying stuff from a charity shop not all ways and not by everybody you made my case for me with your own experience

i don`t mock people for it

i was pointing out that it happens
obviously where you have lived some sort of place over the rainbow full of kind people skipping from day to day full of the milk of human kindness and tolerance it never happens ...where is that exactly ?

secondly as usual you want to make it ALL about you

quote raggs
"it's you who thinks it's demeaning for me to buy things from charity shops"

I never said that or even mentioned you personally or even hinted at it or claimed it was or it should be demeaning for you

yet once again you want to make it a personal attack against you and you call me insecure ?

why do you you allways look to be the victim and see every comment as a personal attack directed your way it`s pretty tedious quite frankly

look in the mirror that person looking back ...................is the obviously insecure one and it shows

As i have said from the start i don`t give a toss where people shop that`s there choice.

But as i said some people have no choice and from what i have been reading charity shops are not always that cheap any more sure you can find a bargain but it looks like that`s not always the case

i don`t know about you but i grew up in a time when they was a stigma attached to charity shops perhaps that`s why i have never been in one in my life even when now they have become "trendy" as i pointed out above

i dont personally judge people for it but i rarely see people common poor people advertising the fact ether although its does seem to be the in thing of the more affluent to brag about

perhaps its like oysters once the food of the poor now a expensive delicacy like so many other things

perhaps Mary Portas, who you may remember from the BBC2 series ‘Mary Queen of Shops who wants to remove the stigma from charity shops and get everyone shopping in them

so if you think there is no stigma attached to charity shops you obviously again are completely wrong

I said I was mocked on forums - not in RL, and only by people who are a bit stupid anyway.

Did it stop me going to charity shops? No, it did not. You're the one who's insecure - thinking that people will look down on you or something.

Stigma attached to charity shops? Not where I am, and not amongst anyone I know. Perhaps you are projecting your own attitude onto others.

Let's just say that someone wants or needs a new winter coat. They can buy one for £150 in M&S or they can buy one for £10 in a charity shop. One person who is rich buys a coat in a charity shop, and a poor person who can't afford £150 buys one too. The end result is the same, the only thing that might differ is the attitude of the people who bought the coats.

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:33 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:This car which was worth 45 grand - was it your car? I'm sure you said that you "struggle" with money.
VW carravelle executive and no its a motablity car

Very nice - not the sort of money I'd spend on a car. Who is the one struggling?

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:36 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I'll speak to you later about your rude post, and your absurd attitude.

Bye for now!
i look forward to it trousers at the ankles

but read this first
Children bullied by their schoolmates for wearing 'wrong brand'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043473/School-children-called-geeks-wearing-cheap-clothing.html

Fashion Bullies Attack -- In Middle School
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB119326834963770540

bullied for wearing certain clothes

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=AYfsAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=bullied+for+wearing+certain+clothes&source=bl&ots=JD0996Hf-9&sig=voNDa3yppDvvp0OfsMQMLIONx4A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBGoVChMIv9qK85PkxgIVMBfbCh3hWQzV#v=onepage&q=bullied%20for%20wearing%20certain%20clothes&f=false

http://twentytwowords.com/mom-sends-daughter-to-school-in-ugly-clothes-as-consequence-for-bullying/

She took a trip to the thrift store and bought a few cheap clothes that she knew her daughter would hate. When the girl woke up the next morning a terrible outfit and old sneakers were laid out for her to wear

i am not saying its right but it happens and i am very very surprised you claim to never have heard of this kind of thing ...you have kids right ?

and you keep saying my attitude that`s not my attitude far from it personally i couldn`t care less what people wear
but i am one enlightened caring person
that`s not the point i am making is it

And not only kids but women are among the worse for it more so than men

What has struck me is that often the female serial bully is fat, and chooses a slim female target on to whom to project her self-loathing. Envy is a strong motivator for bullies. Even if you start a weight loss program, the bully will simply change the excuse. Now you're "too thin", "too tall", "wear the wrong clothes", etc. Each reason is specious.
http://www.bullyonline.org/related/overweig.htm

simple fact the clothes that an impoverished person wears can indicate their poverty. This sign of poverty or poorer economic status can be a cause of discrimination and of vilification and severely affect them in many ways

So what are you saying? That the issue is not lack of money, but the attitude to others towards that lack of money? If so, should people get a ton of money in benefits so that they can buy designer gear in order to not get mocked or pitied? That's not a very good reason.

When I was at school it was like a fashion show sometimes, but it was nothing to do with how much clothes cost, it was more to do with the style.

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:39 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

When I was a kid, I loved jumble sales. I had clothes which had been passed on. Did I feel sorry for myself? Of course not. I simply can't understand your attitude. Do you seriously think that way?

Lefties are more materialistic than others by the looks of things... and they obviously judge people by what they have more than others too...

Yes, it does seem that way. They also seem to be much more aware of their "image", and the "image" of others based on how much money they have.

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:41 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:Well I certainly had little choice as we could not afford new clothes all the time and being as there was ready available clothes of my brothers, it made perfect sense to use them. Its all about how you matain the clothes you wear so they do not get worn out. There is no argument to claim against second hand clothes they are as stated based on materialism of wanting something new. Its a virus that effects many people which also gets them into debt. Theylive beyond their means. To argue off others bullying is a problem to deal with in regards to bullying, not the wearing of second hand clothes. Thus you tackle bullying so that kids do not suffer such abuse. No child should be bullied for what they wear thus the problem is too tackle teasing and bulling.
i agree but there's the difference between what should be and what is
And i am trying to point out that there still is a stigma when it comes to charity shops justified or not As i keep saying i don`t care ether way but i find it deeply troubling that 30 years ago charity shops and food banks where mainly for the destitute and foreign aid are now more common place and accepted as the norm

Not so. Charity shops were popular back then too.

Even if they are for the "destitute", what is wrong with living within your means and buying clothes second hand? I know you're very sniffy about that, but not everyone is.

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:44 pm

Nems wrote:I think there is a very big difference between buying things from a charity shop because we like the item, (I bought a rather wonderful purple handbag from Claire house shop yesterday brand new ) and buying everything second hand because you cant afford to do otherwise.

Also anyone who thinks children wont get ripped to bits for being the one in the second hand clothes or wrong trainers clearly doesn't have kids.

The only difference is one of attitude. If people are ashamed of buying second hand clothes, that's their problem.

How would anyone know the child is wearing second hand clothes? Did none of you wear hand-me-downs, or clothes that were not new?

As for the "wrong trainers", people need to get a grip. If wearing the "wrong trainers" means someone is poor, there's something seriously wrong.

by eddie Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:44 pm

Nems wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
So benefits should be generous enough to pay for children to have loads of all the latest brand new designer clothes...!?

No tommy, wages should!
How many more times?! The worst of in this country are the low paid!
Trying to live on benefits is bad enough but try living on minimum wage
that puts you just over the threshold so you get no help what so ever
is impossible. That's why the working poor are the ones using the food banks
Imagine working full time and having to use a food bank. Can you?

Well said nems absolutely well said

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:46 pm

Nems wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
good luck with that nems getting any thing trough to him is like trying to hammer butter in to granite

All this disdain and contempt for the poor, sick and disadvantaged, imagine if all that energy were put to positive use?
We could have a revolution and get some social justice back in this bloody country.

The disdain is coming from lefties as far as I can see.

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:47 pm

Nems wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
So benefits should be generous enough to pay for children to have loads of all the latest brand new designer clothes...!?

No tommy, wages should!
How many more times?! The worst of in this country are the low paid!
Trying to live on benefits is bad enough but try living on minimum wage
that puts you just over the threshold so you get no help what so ever
is impossible. That's why the working poor are the ones using the food banks
Imagine working full time and having to use a food bank. Can you?

Minimum wage does not put people over the threshold. They can claim working tax credits, and probably other benefits too.

by eddie Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:12 pm

In all actuality, it is poor children and poor people who have more of a problem with designer brands and makes.

The more money you have the less you actually care about designers.

I never wore second hand clothes and we never struggled for money particularly, we wasn't rich, but we seemed to have more than most.
My maternal grandparents were quite affluent and my mother was raised with money - she never made us into money "snobs".

I like second hand shops, I don't buy clothes though I would if I saw something I liked and it was tons cheaper than the shops (rarely happens) and as I live in a pretty wealthy area, the charity shops here are full of quite nice things.
I buy a lot of books and sometimes the odd pottery piece (I've made money doing that as I resell things on eBay and make a little profit)

I wouldn't buy teddies or soft toys though as I find them a bit smelly.

But charity shops do a great service and I never pass one without going in!

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:24 pm

sassy wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

I would love to live in some of those places but unfortunately my wages won't allow it...

But if you Are an unemployed foreigner you can live in these places because housing benefit will pick up the bill!!!

Meaning people like me have to face 2-3 hours commuting every day and suffer the costs of this...

And how it that any cheaper Tommy? For example, Colchester/Liverpool Street is over £7000 a year, and that's if you can fork out for an annual ticket, buying weekly costs more. So how you going pay for that out of your £270 a week? That's £134 a week.

What the fuck has Colchester got to do with anything...!?

I live in southeast London/Kent border... weekly travelcard is about £45 last time I checked...

And journey time is between one and one&half hours each way into a central London destination.

Plus... if you were on a budget you would just be getting a weekly bus pass for about £15 a week...

Also you wouldn't be doing a massive commute for a minimum wage job... you would be doing a local min wage job.

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:45 pm

Clearly, if you lived in Colchester, you would find a minimum wage job there - and don't bother to say there aren't any. You wouldn't go all the way to London for that.

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:50 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
VW carravelle executive and no its a motablity car

Very nice - not the sort of money I'd spend on a car. Who is the one struggling?

well i guess you don`t have a daughter who can`t bend her legs or arms hands or feet and needs to use an electric wheelchair ........then you would find you would have very little choice of the size of vehicle you would need just to fit her in and transport her and her wheelchair ..........so actually it her the one struggling
got any more smart ass comments

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:52 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Very nice - not the sort of money I'd spend on a car. Who is the one struggling?
well i guess you don`t have a daughter who can`t bend her legs or arms hands or feet and needs to use an electric wheelchair ........then you would find you would have very little choice of the size of vehicle you would need just to fit her in and transport her and her wheelchair ..........so actually it her the one struggling
got any more smart ass comments

Is it a nice new vehicle? You seemed awfully proud of it when you were talking about that drunk. In fact, what you're saying now appears to contradict what you said then.

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:03 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
well i guess you don`t have a daughter who can`t bend her legs or arms hands or feet and needs to use an electric wheelchair ........then you would find you would have very little choice of the size of vehicle you would need just to fit her in and transport her and her wheelchair ..........so actually it her the one struggling
got any more smart ass comments

Is it a nice new vehicle? You seemed awfully proud of it when you were talking about that drunk. In fact, what you're saying now appears to contradict what you said then.

No you stupid woman i was using at an example of perception honestly you have got to be the most stupid point twisting woman on the planet and don`t have the ability to conceptualise or extrapolate a point or it seems see beyond you own nose

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:04 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Is it a nice new vehicle? You seemed awfully proud of it when you were talking about that drunk. In fact, what you're saying now appears to contradict what you said then.
No you stupid woman i was using at an example of perception honestly you have got to be the most stupid point twisting woman on the planet and don`t have the ability to conceptualise or extrapolate a point or it seems see beyond you own nose

You mean the perception of the drunk, had he seen the car, would be that you were rich?

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:07 pm

sassy wrote:Rags, when I was little, and my kids were little, we loved jumble sales as well. But the big difference is, we had a choice.

Why does that make a difference?

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:09 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
No you stupid woman i was using at an example of perception honestly you have got to be the most stupid point twisting woman on the planet and don`t have the ability to conceptualise or extrapolate a point or it seems see beyond you own nose

You mean the perception of the drunk, had he seen the car, would be that you were rich?

No not just the guy in my story but in general people make judgements on how you look and the things you have
THAT`S THE WHOLE POINT I HAVE BEEN MAKING
i thought it was because you where just up that you where being so dense now a see its a natural state for you

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:10 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You mean the perception of the drunk, had he seen the car, would be that you were rich?
No not just the guy in my story but in general people make judgements on how you look and the things you have
THAT`S THE WHOLE POINT I HAVE BEEN MAKING
i thought it was because you where just up that you where being so dense now a see its a natural state for you

I see you're getting all flustered Korban.

So why is perception about richness or poorness so important to you?

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:15 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
No not just the guy in my story but in general people make judgements on how you look and the things you have
THAT`S THE WHOLE POINT I HAVE BEEN MAKING
i thought it was because you where just up that you where being so dense now a see its a natural state for you

I see you're getting all flustered Korban.

So why is perception about richness or poorness so important to you?

OFF sake its not to Me
but go on make a conversation about a wider issue as i have been saying personal and try and say it`s my perception unlike you i live in the REAL world
And flusted i am not especially over a silly woman like your self don`t flatter your self sweetheart

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
No not just the guy in my story but in general people make judgements on how you look and the things you have
THAT`S THE WHOLE POINT I HAVE BEEN MAKING
i thought it was because you where just up that you where being so dense now a see its a natural state for you

I see you're getting all flustered Korban.

So why is perception about richness or poorness so important to you?

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I see you're getting all flustered Korban.

So why is perception about richness or poorness so important to you?

oh goody the village idiot has arrived

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:18 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I see you're getting all flustered Korban.

So why is perception about richness or poorness so important to you?
OFF sake its not to Me
but go on make a conversation about a wider issue as i have been saying personal and try and say it`s my perception unlike you i live in the REAL world
And flusted i am not especially over a silly woman like your self don`t flatter your self sweetheart

Oh dear - your fluster is becoming more and more apparent.

So what exactly is your point Korban? Apart from the fact that you wouldn't demean yourself by buying clothes from a charity shop, what are you saying? That people on benefits should be given a ton of money so they can "compete" with others in order to look good to those others?

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:23 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
OFF sake its not to Me
but go on make a conversation about a wider issue as i have been saying personal and try and say it`s my perception unlike you i live in the REAL world
And flusted i am not especially over a silly woman like your self don`t flatter your self sweetheart

Oh dear - your fluster is becoming more and more apparent.

So what exactly is your point Korban? Apart from the fact that you wouldn't demean yourself by buying clothes from a charity shop, what are you saying? That people on benefits should be given a ton of money so they can "compete" with others in order to look good to those others?

i love the way you put words in my mouth its the only way you can make your points poor that they are i think people should have enough money to buy clothes and not have to rely on hand-me-downs or second hand it is a human right after all

by eddie Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:24 pm

well it is true to say that there are people in the world who measure others by their material possessions.
Shameful, but true.

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:25 pm

While the middle classes are feeling the squeeze and being forced into using charity shops and discount supermarkets... KD should be able to lord it up in luxury on benefits and look down his nose at those middle classes who's taxes pay for it all!!!

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:26 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh dear - your fluster is becoming more and more apparent.

So what exactly is your point Korban? Apart from the fact that you wouldn't demean yourself by buying clothes from a charity shop, what are you saying? That people on benefits should be given a ton of money so they can "compete" with others in order to look good to those others?
i love the way you put words in my mouth its the only way you can make your points poor that they are i think people should have enough money to by clothes and not have to rely on hand-me-downs or second hand it is a human right after all

People do have enough money to buy clothes - they can buy them at charity shops or jumble sales. What is wrong with that? You are saying that they should have enough money to buy new clothes. I don't see why - unless they earn that money in the first place.

I simply don't share your disgust at the clothes that others have discarded, and I don't see why it's a "human right" to be able to buy new clothes.

by eddie Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:26 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:While the middle classes are feeling the squeeze and being forced into using charity shops and discount supermarkets... KD should be able to lord it up in luxury on benefits and look down his nose at those middle classes who's taxes pay for it all!!!

Is KD on benefits? And if so, why would that bother you Tommy? You have no idea of his circumstances - none of us have?

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:26 pm

eddie wrote:well it is true to say that there are people in the world who measure others by their material possessions.
Shameful, but true.

yes very true
especially when being interviewed for a job first impressions play a big part in peoples attitude towards others

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:28 pm

"...it is a human right after all..."

lol!

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
i love the way you put words in my mouth its the only way you can make your points poor that they are i think people should have enough money to by clothes and not have to rely on hand-me-downs or second hand it is a human right after all

People do have enough money to buy clothes - they can buy them at charity shops or jumble sales. What is wrong with that? You are saying that they should have enough money to buy new clothes. I don't see why - unless they earn that money in the first place.

I simply don't share your disgust at the clothes that others have discarded, and I don't see why it's a "human right" to be able to buy new clothes.

the right to clothing, is recognized as a human right in various international human rights instruments. The right to clothing, together with the right to food and the right to housing, are parts of the right to an adequate standard of living as recognized under Article 11 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR). The right to clothing is similarly recognized under Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:29 pm

I think Korban must be on some kind of daft wind up. Laughing

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:31 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I think Korban must be on some kind of daft wind up.

i think your being deliberately obtuse

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:31 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

People do have enough money to buy clothes - they can buy them at charity shops or jumble sales. What is wrong with that? You are saying that they should have enough money to buy new clothes. I don't see why - unless they earn that money in the first place.

I simply don't share your disgust at the clothes that others have discarded, and I don't see why it's a "human right" to be able to buy new clothes.
the right to clothing, is recognized as a human right in various international human rights instruments. The right to clothing, together with the right to food and the right to housing, are parts of the right to an adequate standard of living as recognized under Article 11 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR). The right to clothing is similarly recognized under Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)

Well obviously, you can't have someone going around naked, especially in the middle of the winter, but where does it say that it's a human right to be able to buy new clothes?

I give stuff to charity Korban. Are you saying that people should turn their noses up at it? OK, they might not like the stuff, but it's not tainted or anything. Laughing

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:"...it is a human right after all..."

Yes it is actually

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:35 pm

What's wrong with buying new clothes at primark or other supermarkets...!?

I've got a lovely shirt from primark, only cost me £6... always get my jeans and shorts from there too... in fact I am wearing a pair of primark shorts right now and A hand me down shirt that my nan gave me that her husband was getting a bit too wide for!!!

Is my favourite shirt at the moment!!!

But I suppose this makes me a lesser person in KD's eyes...!?

And Eddie... he just told us about the benefits car...

I don't mind that people are on benefits... I have signed on many times myself over the years!!!

I Just think that benefits should not be providing luxury life styles.

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:36 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
korban dallas wrote:
the right to clothing, is recognized as a human right in various international human rights instruments. The right to clothing, together with the right to food and the right to housing, are parts of the right to an adequate standard of living as recognized under Article 11 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR). The right to clothing is similarly recognized under Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)

Well obviously, you can't have someone going around naked, especially in the middle of the winter, but where does it say that it's a human right to be able to buy new clothes?

I give stuff to charity Korban. Are you saying that people should turn their noses up at it? OK, they might not like the stuff, but it's not tainted or anything.

good for you does that make you feel superour ? and if you had bothered to read some of my posts you would have found that charity shop giving is on the decline and charity shops prices are on the rise and pricing the poor out of them

its no wonder you don`t understand anything i have said your to lazy to read the stuff posted

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:39 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well obviously, you can't have someone going around naked, especially in the middle of the winter, but where does it say that it's a human right to be able to buy new clothes?

I give stuff to charity Korban. Are you saying that people should turn their noses up at it? OK, they might not like the stuff, but it's not tainted or anything.
good for you does that make you feel superour ? and if you had bothered to read some of my posts you would have found that charity shop giving is on the decline and charity shops prices are on the rise and pricing the poor out of them

its no wonder you don`t understand anything i have said your to lazy to read the stuff posted

No, it means that I don't have stuff cluttering the place up. I could sell it I guess, but I can't be bothered, and at least someone is getting something very cheaply elsewhere - or even free if it's sent abroad.

On the decline? You can hardly get the stuff into the clothes banks round here, and the charity shops have stuff piling up everywhere.

You have to shop around of course. Oxfam can be more expensive, but they do have a "bargain rail". I do hope my friend doesn't feel demeaned when she goes through that rail. Laughing

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:40 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:What's wrong with buying new clothes at primark or other supermarkets...!?

I've got a lovely shirt from primark, only cost me £6... always get my jeans and shorts from there too... in fact I am wearing a pair of primark shorts right now and A hand me down shirt that my nan gave me that her husband was getting a bit too wide for!!!

Is my favourite shirt at the moment!!!

But I suppose this makes me a lesser person in KD's eyes...!?

And Eddie... he just told us about the benefits car...

I don't mind that people are on benefits... I have signed on many times myself over the years!!!

I Just think that benefits should not be providing luxury life styles.

Yes, I'm wearing trousers which weren't originally mine at the moment. Laughing

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:42 pm

The charity shops round here are always piled up outside... I've even seen a couple sayinp they aren't taking stuff as too full!!!

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:42 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:What's wrong with buying new clothes at primark or other supermarkets...!?

Not a thing as i said most of mine come from the designer label "George" or the internet another cheap alternative and use for a computer

I've got a lovely shirt from primark, only cost me £6... always get my jeans and shorts from there too... in fact I am wearing a pair of primark shorts right now and A hand me down shirt that my nan gave me that her husband was getting a bit too wide for!!!

Is my favourite shirt at the moment!!!

But I suppose this makes me a lesser person in KD's eyes...!?

No Tommy you just a lesser person by birth i guess and primark is`nt a charity shop is it moron

And Eddie... he just told us about the benefits car...

Benefit car ??

I don't mind that people are on benefits... I have signed on many times myself over the years!!!

I Just think that benefits should not be providing luxury life styles.

yes because having a disabled daughter is a luxury Tommy
i look at her just like that you ass hole

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:44 pm

What about Ebay? You can get some real bargains there - second hand.

by Raggamuffin Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:48 pm

Isn't it a lot to do with envy? People envy those who can just walk into Harrods and buy a coat costing £1,000 or whatever. What does it matter? That person won't appreciate that coat any more just because of what it cost anyway.

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The charity shops round here are always piled up outside... I've even seen a couple sayinp they aren't taking stuff as too full!!!

your another one who doesn`t bother to read others posts because if you had you would have seen that very question answered by a charity shop manager from London

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:55 pm

I said I was wearing a hand me down shirt KD...

Does that make me a lesser person?

In fact... most of The clothes I do have are at least 10-15 years old!!!

by Guest Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I said I was wearing a hand me down shirt KD...

Does that make me a lesser person?

i have never claimed that in fact quite the opposite and i am not talking about what I think but the perception of a lot of people more than you would imagine

In fact... most of The clothes I do have are at least 10-15 years old!!!

yes join the club i still where my uniform number "1s" and number "8s"over 20 25 years old (wow just worked that out )
that is not the point i am making no matter how may times you try and make it about me personally

perception of some is my whole point like your perception all the unemployed are there trough choice

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