Captive virgins, polygamy and sex slaves: What marriage would look like if we actually followed the Bible

Bible believers are beside themselves about the prospect that marriage norms and laws are changing, but let me tell you a secret about Bible believers that I know because I was one. Most don’t actually read their Bibles.
If they did, they would know that the biblical model of sex and marriage has little to do with the one they so loudly defend. Sex in the Bible includes rape, incest, master-slave sexual relations, captive virgins, and more. Of course, just because a story is told in the Bible doesn’t mean it is intended as a model for moral behavior. Does God forbid or command the behavior? Is it punished or rewarded?  In the New Testament stories, does Jesus change the rules or leave them alone?  By these criteria, the Bible not only describes many forms of sexual relationships (including sexually coercive relationships), it gives them the divine thumbs up.

Not One Man, One Woman
The God of the Bible explicitly endorses polygamy and sexual slavery and coerced marriage of young virgins along with monogamy. In fact, he endorses all three to the point of providing detailed regulations. Based on stories of sex and marriage that God rewards and appears to approve one might add incest to the mix of sexual contact that receives divine sanction.

New Testament Endorses Old Testament
Nowhere does the Bible say, “Don’t have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you.” Consent, in the Bible, is not a thing.  Furthermore, none of the norms that are endorsed and regulated in the Old Testament law – polygamy, sexual slavery, coerced marriage of young girls—are revised, reversed, or condemned by Jesus. In fact, the writer of Matthew puts these words in the mouth of Jesus:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law [the Old Testament] until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

The Law of which Jesus speaks is the Law of Moses, or the Torah, and anyone who claims the Bible as the perfect word of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent God should have the decency to read the Torah carefully—and then keep going.

Polygamy. Polygamy is a norm in the Old Testament and accepted in the New Testament. Biblicalpolygamy.com has pages dedicated to 40 biblical figures, each of whom had multiple wives. The list includes patriarchs like Abraham and Isaac. King David, the first king of Israel may have limited himself to eight wives, but his son Solomon, reputed to be the wisest man who ever lived had 700 wives and 300 concubines! (1 Kings 11)

Sex Slaves. Concubines are sex slaves, and the Bible gives instructions on acquisition of several types of sex slaves, although the line between biblical marriage and sexual slavery is blurry. A Hebrew man might, for example, sell his daughter to another Hebrew, who then has certain obligations to her once she is used. For example, he can’t then sell her to a foreigner. Alternately a man might see a virgin war captive that he wants for himself.

War Booty. In the book of Numbers (31:18) God’s servant commands the Israelites to kill all of the used Midianite women who have been captured in war, and all of the boy children, but to keep all of the virgin girls for themselves. The Law of Moses spells out a purification ritual to prepare a captive virgin for life as a concubine. It requires her owner to shave her head and trim her nails and give her a month to mourn her parents before the first sex act (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). A Hebrew girl who is raped can be sold to her rapist for 50 shekels, or about $580 (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). He must then keep her as one of his wives for as long as she lives.

Brother’s Wife. A man might acquire multiple wives whether he wanted them or not if his brother died. In fact, if a brother dies with no children, it becomes a duty to impregnate his wife. In the book of Genesis, Onan is struck dead by God because he fails to fulfill this duty – preferring to spill his seed on the ground rather than providing offspring for his brother (Genesis 38:8-10). A New Testament story shows that the tradition has survived. Jesus is a rabbi, and a group of scholars called Sadducees try to test his knowledge of Hebrew Law by asking him this question:

Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. Finally, the woman died. Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?” (Matthew 22:24-28).

Jesus is too clever for them and points out that in Heaven, that place of perfect bliss, there is no marriage.
Having a brother act as a sperm donor isn’t the only biblical solution to lack of offspring.  The patriarch Abraham is married to his half-sister Sarah, but the two are childless for the first 75 years or so of their marriage. Frustrated, Sarah finally says, “The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.” Her slave, Hagar, becomes pregnant, and then later Sarah does too and the story gets complicated (Genesis 16).  But that doesn’t stop Abraham’s grandson Jacob from participating in a competition, in which his two wives repeatedly send in their slaves to get pregnant by him, each trying to get more sons than the other (Genesis 30:1-22).

Bible Believers or Simply Change-Averse?
These stories might be irrelevant to the question of biblical marriage were it not that Bible believers keep telling us that God punishes people when he dislikes their sexual behavior. He disliked the behavior of New Orleans gays so much, according to Pat Robertson, that he sent a hurricane to drown the whole city – kind of like Noah’s flood. And yet, according to the Bible story, both Abraham and Jacob were particularly beloved and blessed by God.

The point is that marriage has changed tremendously since the Iron Age when the Bible was written. For centuries, concubines and polygamy were debated by Christian leaders – accepted by some and rejected by others. The nuclear family model so prized by America’s fundamentalist Christians emerged from the interplay between Christianity and European cultures including the monogamous tradition of the Roman Empire. As humanity’s moral consciousness has evolved, coerced sex has become less acceptable even within marriage while intertribal and interracial marriage has grown in acceptance. Today even devout Bible believers oppose sexual slavery. Marriage, increasingly, is a commitment of love, freely given. Gay marriage is simply a part of this broader conversation, and opposition on the part of Bible believers has little to do with biblical monogamy.

Since many Christians haven’t read the whole Bible, most “Bible believers” are not, as they like to claim, actually Bible believers. Biblical literalists, even those who think themselves “nondenominational,” almost all follow some theological tradition that tells them which parts of the Bible to follow and how. Granted, sometimes even decent people do get sucked into a sort of text worship that I call bibliolatry, and Bible worship can make a person’s moral priorities as archaic and cruel as those of the Iron Age tribesmen who wrote the texts. (I once listened, horrified, while a sweet, elderly pair of Jehovah’s Witnesses rationalized the Old Testament slaughter of children with the same words Nazis used to justify the slaughter of Jewish babies.)

But many who call themselves Bible believers are simply, congenitally conservative – meaning change-resistant. What really concerns them is protecting the status quo, an ancient hierarchy with privileged majority-culture straight males at the top, which they justify by invoking ancient texts. Gay marriage will come, as will other reproductive rights, and these Bible believers will adapt to the change as they have others: reluctantly, slowly and with angry protests, but in the end accepting it, and perhaps even insisting that it was God’s will all along.



http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/captive-virgins-polygamy-and-sex-slaves-what-marriage-would-look-like-if-we-actually-followed-the-bible/

+100
it`s not like we haven't pointed out all these things before on multiple occasions but if Christians actually followed the tenants faith as the bible instructs they would be no better than ISIS

Indeed Korben, its the utter hypocrisy how they pick and choose over the bible which is the worst part

Let people have sex with who they want , but don't expect everyone to agree .

Let homosexuals get married , but don't expect everyone to agree .

Vicar of Dibley wrote:Let people have sex with who they want , but don't expect everyone to agree .

Let homosexuals get married , but don't expect everyone to agree .

well said...

Vicar of Dibley wrote:Let people have sex with who they want , but don't expect everyone to agree .

Let homosexuals get married , but don't expect everyone to agree .

Nobody expects everyone to agree just not to demonise or call then names and make loaded remarks and called/imply they are potential child molesters because they are gay or restrict there rights as human beings and say they are not good role models for raising children or being good great parents to adopted children ect ect

i don't say any of those things , but pedophiles can be gay and straight.
And as for the name calling you have done your fair share of that KD

Originally you didn't want to allow gay marriage, now yoy just want to be allowed to not accept it. Bless.

Eilzel wrote:Originally you didn't want to allow gay marriage, now yoy just want to be allowed to not accept it. Bless.

I don't give a toss about gay marriage never have done i just don't like gays targeting those who don't and i certainly do not want gays forcing me or anyone else who happens to be against homosexuality to accept it as normal we have our right to believe this so what's your problem with us ? Bless

This would really just be the beginning of how different our lives would look if society followed the Bible.

Can anybody tell me what God says must happen to anyone who doesn't listen to priests, anyone who curses their parents, anyone who practices sorcery, anyone who reads fortunes, anyone who commits adultery, anybody who practices a different religion or doesn't believe at all, any woman who isn't a virgin on her wedding night, and anyone who works on the Sabbath?

Hint: it isn't 40 lashes with a wet noodle ...

If the people doing those things don't repent they are able to live their lives until they die and then they end up in hell .

God always gives everyone a way out of their sin .

Vicar of Dibley wrote:If the people doing those things don't repent they are able to live their lives until they die and then they end up in hell .

God always gives everyone a way out of their sin .

Nope, sorry. The Bible says anyone who does any of those things is to be killed.

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:If the people doing those things don't repent they are able to live their lives until they die and then they end up in hell .

God always gives everyone a way out of their sin .

Nope, sorry. The Bible says anyone who does any of those things is to be killed.

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
   Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
   You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
   "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
   A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
   Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
   1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
   2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
   If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
   A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
   Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
   They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
   If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
   Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
   But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
   1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

   2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

old testament Jesus came to give us a chance , not much time to debate properly Ben i have my grandson here and he is the pool and needs watching lol

Vicar of Dibley wrote:i don't say any of those things , but  pedophiles can be  gay and straight.
And as for the name calling you have done your fair share of that KD

i have swore a lot at you two to be sure
but have i called you names for no reason ? or was it in reply  to you calling me or others names like nazi or pedos ect

see once again you don`t understand or know me  i never called people names untill you two started it
fight fire with fire has all ways been my philosophy and it seems to have worked yet again .........

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Originally you didn't want to allow gay marriage, now yoy just want to be allowed to not accept it. Bless.

I don't give a toss about gay marriage never have done i just don't like gays targeting those who don't and i certainly do not want gays forcing me or anyone else who happens to be against homosexuality to accept it as normal we have our right to believe this so what's your problem with us ? Bless

But it is normal for them Jeeze thats what you don`t grasp who gives you the right to decide what is normal or not people used to say black people where not normal ....and some still do

korban dallas wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:i don't say any of those things , but  pedophiles can be  gay and straight.
And as for the name calling you have done your fair share of that KD

i have swore a lot at you two to be sure
but have i called you names for no reason ? or was it in reply  to you calling me or others names like nazi or pedos ect

see once again you don`t understand or know me  i never called people names untill you two started it
fight fire with fire has all ways been my philosophy and it seems to have worked yet again .........

utter tosh and you know it... you have been abusive, you always have been...

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Nope, sorry. The Bible says anyone who does any of those things is to be killed.

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
   Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
   You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
   "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
   A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
   Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
   1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
   2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
   If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
   A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
   Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
   They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
   If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
   Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
   But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
   1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

   2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

old testament Jesus came to give us a chance , not much time  to debate properly  Ben i have my grandson  here and he is the pool and needs watching lol

yes a chanve to follow the rules of the OT

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law [the Old Testament] until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
i have swore a lot at you two to be sure
but have i called you names for no reason ? or was it in reply  to you calling me or others names like nazi or pedos ect

see once again you don`t understand or know me  i never called people names untill you two started it
fight fire with fire has all ways been my philosophy and it seems to have worked yet again .........

utter tosh and you know it... you have been abusive, you always have been...

only in reply to your bigotry rhetoric and abuse
look what your religion made me do LOL

korban dallas wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

old testament Jesus came to give us a chance , not much time  to debate properly  Ben i have my grandson  here and he is the pool and needs watching lol

yes a chanve to follow the rules of the OT

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law [the Old Testament] until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

that's right, Jesus came to fulfill them, he came to make it so they would no longer separate man from God if you believed on Jesus, the laws still remain as the standard God will use to judge those who decided not to believe on Jesus...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
yes a chanve to follow the rules of the OT

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law [the Old Testament] until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

that's right, Jesus came to fulfill them, he came to make it so they would no longer separate man from God if you believed on Jesus, the laws still remain as the standard God will use to judge those who decided not to believe on Jesus...

see there you go telling people they are going to hell
how would you like me to tell you that when you die you will be buried in a hole or burned in the flames left to rot for all of eternity no heaven no hell no salvation just worms and purification
its not a very nice thing to say you may believe what you want but telling people things like that because of there choices is evil and disgusting and threatening

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
yes a chanve to follow the rules of the OT

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law [the Old Testament] until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

that's right, Jesus came to fulfill them, he came to make it so they would no longer separate man from God if you believed on Jesus, the laws still remain as the standard God will use to judge those who decided not to believe on Jesus...

yet you don`t follow the rules of the OT do you ? funny that

ben twice in a row when posting anybody else getting this ?

Confirmation code:
Enter the code exactly as you see it. The code is case sensitive and zero has a diagonal line through it.


???

korban dallas wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

that's right, Jesus came to fulfill them, he came to make it so they would no longer separate man from God if you believed on Jesus, the laws still remain as the standard God will use to judge those who decided not to believe on Jesus...

see there you go telling people they are going to hell
how would you like me to tell you that when you die you will be buried in a hole or burned in the flames  left to rot for all of eternity no heaven no hell no salvation just worms and purification
its not a very nice thing to say you may believe what you want but telling people things like that because of there choices is evil and disgusting and threatening

if they don't believe it what's the problem...lol

that's your opinion, no problem but it is not my opinion...

you asked me about the bible and that is what I answered you by...

if you say by science a meteorite will hit the world and kill us all, is it your fault for telling me, is it sciences fault for knowing???

korban dallas wrote:ben twice in a row when posting anybody else getting this ?

Confirmation code:
Enter the code exactly as you see it. The code is case sensitive and zero has a diagonal line through it.


???

It sometimes happen when I am posting a picture Korben, though not all the time.
Think it is to do more with forum motion, as i found this happen on flap too.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
yes a chanve to follow the rules of the OT

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law [the Old Testament] until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

that's right, Jesus came to fulfill them, he came to make it so they would no longer separate man from God if you believed on Jesus, the laws still remain as the standard God will use to judge those who decided not to believe on Jesus...

I don't think he understands xx

i have been getting the codes for a few days now after every post .

Could anyone give me an example of main stream Christians adhering to all the old testament laws or the last time mainstream Jews actually adhered to all of them. There may be weird cults who have them as laws but I doubt they are used as instructed in the old testament.
If Christianity had taken all those laws as 'gospel' I doubt it would have got off the ground. Jesus apparently preached a whole different concept, he personally fullfilled the old laws which were a covenant between Isreal and god only and a new and different covenant was made between god and all peoples.
People of course in the main and given the chance get wiser, they keep the spirituality and leave the dogma in the dust where it belongs.

Vintage wrote:Could anyone give me an example of main stream Christians adhering to all the old testament laws or the last time mainstream Jews actually adhered to all of them. There may be weird cults who have them as laws but I doubt they are used as instructed in the old testament.
If Christianity had taken all those laws as 'gospel' I doubt it would have got off the ground. Jesus apparently preached a whole different concept, he personally fullfilled the old laws which were a covenant between Isreal and god only and a new  and different covenant was made between god and all peoples.
People of course in the main and given the chance get wiser, they keep the spirituality and leave the dogma in the dust where it belongs.

Which shows the point has gone over your head Flix.
Hi by the way.
Many Christians pick and choose passages from the bible they adhere to. So with for example they back a view against homosexuality from Leviticus, they ignore other commands from within the same book.
Though we still have believers that would certainly like to make many of the commands law, except thankfully they are denied by secularism.
The point is we have some Christians bemoaning gay marriage, but as seen within the Bible itself marriage had no age of consent. Slavery was endorsed. Herem (genocide) was commanded. I could go on the list is endless, but the reality is most that endorse the Leviticus verse do not do so on others. That is being very hypocritical around claiming to stand by a command and yet ignore others

the bible has two pretty distinct covenants, law and Grace, thank the Lord for grace....