No difference in kids with same-sex, opposite-sex parents: study

First topic message reminder :

Scientists agree that children raised by same-sex couples are no worse off than children raised by parents of the opposite sex, according to a new study co-authored by a University of Oregon professor.The new research, which looked at 19,000 studies and articles related to same-sex parenting from 1977 to 2013, was released last week, and comes as the U.S. Supreme Court is set to rule by the end of this month on whether same-sex marriage is legal.“Consensus is overwhelming in terms of there being no difference in children who are raised by same-sex or different- sex parents,” University of Oregon sociology professor Ryan Light said on Tuesday.


Light, who co-authored the study with Jimi Adams of the University of Colorado at Denver, said the study may be too late to affect the court’s ruling this month but he hopes it will have an impact on future cases.

"I hope we’ll see acceptance of gay marriage of the courts and by the public at large," he said.The studies, Light said, showed some disagreement among scientists on the outcome of same-sex parenting in the 1980s but it largely subsided in the 1990s, and a clear consensus had formed by 2000 that there is no difference between same-sex and different-sex parenting in the psychological, behavioral or educational outcomes of children.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/23/us-usa-gaymarriage-study-idUSKBN0P32AM20150623

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

You really cannot answer simple questions.
You just keep repeating things you cannot back up
I really am wasting my time even attempting to reason when you ignore points raise.

if i showed you every research paper that ever said the best thing for a child is a mother and a father it would fill the blooming forum...

you could check it yourself but you won't..

I have not ignored any points raise, you just won't accept the answers to the points raised..

I have seen plenty of research.
Which the thread shows and proves there is no difference between hetrosexual and homosexual parents raising children in how they grow up helathy, loved and cared.
Like I say, when you learn to answer questions, then I will engage you in debate.
That is your choice but I get bored with your avoidance and failure to present evidence.

Enjoy talking to yourself again.

Cuchulain wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

if i showed you every research paper that ever said the best thing for a child is a mother and a father it would fill the blooming forum...

you could check it yourself but you won't..

I have not ignored any points raise, you just won't accept the answers to the points raised..

I have seen plenty of research.
Which the thread shows and proves there is no difference between hetrosexual and homosexual parents raising children in how they grow up helathy, loved and cared.
Like I say, when you learn to answer questions, then I will engage you in debate.
That is your choice but I get bored with your avoidance and failure to present evidence.

Enjoy talking to yourself again.

I have seen more research that says a healthy family unit is mother, father and kids...

their was a very interesting book that showed a man was brought up by apes and eventually developed healthy and normal, Tarzan I think his name was, if it was actually possible it would be the exception rather than the rule..

These two are so funny, they just repeat themselves as though doing so makes them right. Truth is tommy doesn't care about kids, especially those who would otherwise be left in care, he just cares about denying family life to gay people.

Eilzel wrote:These two are so funny, they just repeat themselves as though doing so makes them right. Truth is tommy doesn't care about kids, especially those who would otherwise be left in care, he just cares about denying family life to gay people.

you may think it's funny but I think it is very important for children that they grow up in the right environment and time has proven the best and only natural environment is with the father and mother...

Eilzel wrote:These two are so funny, they just repeat themselves as though doing so makes them right. Truth is tommy doesn't care about kids, especially those who would otherwise be left in care, he just cares about denying family life to gay people.

Correct. They would rather see children suffer, denied happiness in order to fulfill their bigotry and discrmination.
Quite sad really.
Still just think mate in 50 years maybe less such bigots like Tommy and co will be few and far between, as so many youngsters grow up knowing such views are backwards.

Homosexuals deny family life to themselves in pursuit of deviant sexual desires...

Tommy Monk wrote:Homosexuals deny family life to themselves in pursuit of deviant sexual desires...

Here we go, talk about a change in debate.
Tommy, you seriously are from "the land that time forgot".

I guess time will tell...

Gay people don't deny themselves or pursue anything. We are what we are, we love who we love, and some of us have proven to be great parents.

Say what you like about what you think is normal and natural (subjective terns), the world is moving on. Get over it.

Eilzel wrote:These two are so funny, they just repeat themselves as though doing so makes them right. Truth is tommy doesn't care about kids, especially those who would otherwise be left in care, he just cares about denying family life to gay people.

Homosexuals deny family life to themselves in pursuit of deviant sexual desires...




This was the post my reply was aimed at.

You can't rewrite nature...

We don't 'pursue deviant sexual desires'. Prove otherwise or stfu.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Eilzel wrote:These two are so funny, they just repeat themselves as though doing so makes them right. Truth is tommy doesn't care about kids, especially those who would otherwise be left in care, he just cares about denying family life to gay people.

Homosexuals deny family life to themselves in pursuit of deviant sexual desires...




This was the post my reply was aimed at.

agree well said

Bigot, your attitude causes children of gay parents to be bullied, does this make you proud?

Deviant!


You're pursuit of deviant sexual desires over the well being and best interests of innocent Children is the problem.

Eilzel wrote:Bigot, your attitude causes children of gay parents to be bullied, does this make you proud?

You're not normal then if its causing children of gays to be bullied . You bully Christians don't you are you proud bigot ?

Tommy Monk wrote:You can't rewrite nature...

You are right you cannot rewrite nature.
So why is it that nature has homosexuality within the animal kingdom?

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Bigot, your attitude causes children of gay parents to be bullied, does this make you proud?

You're not normal then if its causing children of gays to be bullied . You bully Christians don't you are you proud bigot ?

So you are saying black children bullied are not normal
White children bullied are not normal
Asian children bullied are not normal.
Christian children bullied are not normal.
That is the methodology you are claiming based on being bullied.

Eilzel wrote:Gay people don't deny themselves or pursue anything. We are what we are, we love who we love, and some of us have proven to be great parents.

Say what you like about what you think is normal and natural (subjective terns), the world is moving on. Get over it.

By their reasoning they must think the following is unnatural and not normal
Left handed people are not normal and unnatural.
Geniuses are not normal and unnatural.
Ginger hair is not normal and unnatural.
Protected sex is not normal and unnatural
Kissing with tongues is not normal and unnatural.
Oral sex is not normal and unnatural
Wiping your own backside with toilet paper is not normal and unnatural.
Urinating into a toilet is not normal and unnatural.
Blowing your nose with tissues is not normal and unnatural.
People with green colored eyes are not normal and unnatural
People with amber colored eyes are not normal and unnatural


Seems like the whole human race is not normal and unnatural to them

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Eilzel wrote:These two are so funny, they just repeat themselves as though doing so makes them right. Truth is tommy doesn't care about kids, especially those who would otherwise be left in care, he just cares about denying family life to gay people.

you may think it's funny but I think it is very important for children that they grow up in the right environment and time has proven the best and only natural environment is with the father and mother...

Who are you to dictate what the "right environment" looks like for other people who don't share your beliefs?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

you may think it's funny but I think it is very important for children that they grow up in the right environment and time has proven the best and only natural environment is with the father and mother...

Who are you to dictate what the "right environment" looks like for other people who don't share your beliefs?

The same as you with your dictating views on Christianity , freedom of speech and all that . It's terrible isn't it when other people's views are different that your own and especially when it is close to your heart .

Cuchulain wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

You're not normal then if its causing children of gays to be bullied . You bully Christians don't you are you proud bigot ?

So you are saying black children bullied are not normal
White children bullied are not normal
Asian children bullied are not normal.
Christian children bullied are not normal.
That is the methodology you are claiming based on being bullied.

idiot

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

So you are saying black children bullied are not normal
White children bullied are not normal
Asian children bullied are not normal.
Christian children bullied are not normal.
That is the methodology you are claiming based on being bullied.

idiot

How charming, but at least we now you have no rational and reasoning to how I easily showed your views were absurd.

Thanks

It is normal for a child to have A mother and a father.

Tommy Monk wrote:It is normal for a child to have A mother and a father.

As it is for a Father and Father.
As it is for a Mother and Mother.
As it is for a Mother.
As it is for a Father.
As it is for a Grandfather
As It is for Grandmother.

All the above is normal

No dodge... mother and father...!

Tommy Monk wrote:No dodge... mother and father...!

You are wrong its very natural and very normal.

What you need to do is stop moving backwards and try moving forward, as that is the most natural thing to do is walk forwards Tommy.

Cuchulain wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:No dodge... mother and father...!

You are wrong its very natural and very normal.

What you need to do is stop moving backwards and try moving forward, as that is the most natural thing to do is walk forwards Tommy.

it is not natural or normal...

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Who are you to dictate what the "right environment" looks like for other people who don't share your beliefs?

The same as you with your  dictating views on Christianity , freedom of speech and all that . It's terrible isn't it when other people's views are different that your own and especially when it is close to your heart .

well said...

when they state their views and opinions its final, proven and just debate...

it seems when anyone disagrees with them it's bigotry and dictatorship...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


You are wrong its very natural and very normal.

What you need to do is stop moving backwards and try moving forward, as that is the most natural thing to do is walk forwards Tommy.

it is not natural or normal...

Well, by your own methodology, the whole human race is not natural or normal, including yourself.


As by your reasoning you think the following is unnatural and not normal
Left handed people are not normal and unnatural.
Geniuses are not normal and unnatural.
Ginger hair is not normal and unnatural.
Protected sex is not normal and unnatural
Kissing with tongues is not normal and unnatural.
Oral sex is not normal and unnatural
Wiping your own backside with toilet paper is not normal and unnatural.
Urinating into a toilet is not normal and unnatural.
Blowing your nose with tissues is not normal and unnatural.
People with green colored eyes are not normal and unnatural
People with amber colored eyes are not normal and unnatural

Cuchulain wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

it is not natural or normal...

Well, by your own methodology, the whole human race is not natural or normal, including yourself.


As by your reasoning you think the following is unnatural and not normal
Left handed people are not normal and unnatural.
Geniuses are not normal and unnatural.
Ginger hair is not normal and unnatural.
Protected sex is not normal and unnatural
Kissing with tongues is not normal and unnatural.
Oral sex is not normal and unnatural
Wiping your own backside with toilet paper is not normal and unnatural.
Urinating into a toilet is not normal and unnatural.
Blowing your nose with tissues is not normal and unnatural.
People with green colored eyes are not normal and unnatural
People with amber colored eyes are not normal and unnatural

lol...yeah that would be about right....

but i thought we was debating gay parenting and how that is not normal...

Cuchulain wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

idiot

How charming, but at least we now you have no rational and reasoning to how I easily showed your views were absurd.

Thanks

No its just you keep trying to change my view because you can't accept other people believe differently you will just keep coming back with more demands and its boring .

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

Well, by your own methodology, the whole human race is not natural or normal, including yourself.


As by your reasoning you think the following is unnatural and not normal
Left handed people are not normal and unnatural.
Geniuses are not normal and unnatural.
Ginger hair is not normal and unnatural.
Protected sex is not normal and unnatural
Kissing with tongues is not normal and unnatural.
Oral sex is not normal and unnatural
Wiping your own backside with toilet paper is not normal and unnatural.
Urinating into a toilet is not normal and unnatural.
Blowing your nose with tissues is not normal and unnatural.
People with green colored eyes are not normal and unnatural
People with amber colored eyes are not normal and unnatural

lol...yeah that would be about right....

but i thought we was debating gay parenting and how that is not normal...

well said xxx

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


How charming, but at least we now you have no rational and reasoning to how I easily showed your views were absurd.

Thanks

No its just you keep trying to change my view because you can't accept other people believe differently you will just keep coming back with more demands and its boring .

plus 1 billion rep points for being right...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

Well, by your own methodology, the whole human race is not natural or normal, including yourself.


As by your reasoning you think the following is unnatural and not normal
Left handed people are not normal and unnatural.
Geniuses are not normal and unnatural.
Ginger hair is not normal and unnatural.
Protected sex is not normal and unnatural
Kissing with tongues is not normal and unnatural.
Oral sex is not normal and unnatural
Wiping your own backside with toilet paper is not normal and unnatural.
Urinating into a toilet is not normal and unnatural.
Blowing your nose with tissues is not normal and unnatural.
People with green colored eyes are not normal and unnatural
People with amber colored eyes are not normal and unnatural

lol...yeah that would be about right....

but i thought we was debating gay parenting and how that is not normal...

We were talking about what is natural and , which it seems has left you looking like this:






Never mind, when you evolve HF, you will start to understand you have no idea what is natural or normal, hence your confusion



Night


  

    

    

Cuchulain wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

lol...yeah that would be about right....

but i thought we was debating gay parenting and how that is not normal...

We were talking about what is natural and , which it seems has left you looking like this:






Never mind, when you evolve HF, you will start to understand you have no idea what is natural or normal, hence your confusion



Night


  

    

    

evolve, you mean when I am made perfect by my Jesus...

laters dude..............

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


How charming, but at least we now you have no rational and reasoning to how I easily showed your views were absurd.

Thanks

No its just you keep trying to change my view because you can't accept other people believe differently you will just keep coming back with more demands and its boring .

What is wrong with attempting to change a persons view for the better.
Are you saying Jesus was wrong to do that Dibs?
Did he not change millions of peoples views Dibs?
So what you are saying is that you should not even attempt to convert anyone really as you should respect what others believe in.
Thanks for that confession.

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

you may think it's funny but I think it is very important for children that they grow up in the right environment and time has proven the best and only natural environment is with the father and mother...

Who are you to dictate what the "right environment" looks like for other people who don't share your beliefs?

The same as you with your  dictating views on Christianity , freedom of speech and all that . It's terrible isn't it when other people's views are different that your own and especially when it is close to your heart .

I don't try to make anyone not practice Christianity. I'm all for free speech. I don't try to change the law so that you can't do the things you want to do; why do you have to try to change the laws to make other people live the way you think they should?

Why do you think you get to decide for other people?

Cuchulain wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

No its just you keep trying to change my view because you can't accept other people believe differently you will just keep coming back with more demands and its boring .

What is wrong with attempting to change a persons view for the better.
Are you saying Jesus was wrong to do that Dibs?
Did he not change millions of peoples views Dibs?
So what you are saying is that you should not even attempt to convert anyone really as you should respect what others believe in.
Thanks for that confession.

ha ha ha nice try, it helps when you know what affect it will have, you have no idea other than the fact that your bias does not want anyone to believe...

laters..

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

The same as you with your  dictating views on Christianity , freedom of speech and all that . It's terrible isn't it when other people's views are different that your own and especially when it is close to your heart .

I don't try to make anyone not practice Christianity. I'm all for free speech. I don't try to change the law so that you can't do the things you want to do; why do you have to try to change the laws to make other people live the way you think they should?

Why do you think you get to decide for other people?

Yes you do try to stop believing, you do it through ridicule and what you would try to categorise as debate but everyone else knows better..

you are not for free speech as you don't want gays spoken of negatively..

why do gays want laws changed to make people accept gays...

why do gays think they get to decide what other people think....

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:



What is wrong with attempting to change a persons view for the better.
Are you saying Jesus was wrong to do that Dibs?
Did he not change millions of peoples views Dibs?
So what you are saying is that you should not even attempt to convert anyone really as you should respect what others believe in.
Thanks for that confession.

ha ha ha nice try, it helps when you know what affect it will have, you have no idea other than the fact that your bias does not want anyone to believe...

laters..

So converting people to a religion is okay, but telling them the truth is not okay.
Is that the levels you speak of?
Sorry that was the funniest load of illogical bull I have ever heard from you.
She ended up catching herself out


Loved it and its only natural and normal that she would catch herself out.

Night

Cuchulain wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

ha ha ha nice try, it helps when you know what affect it will have, you have no idea other than the fact that your bias does not want anyone to believe...

laters..

So converting people to a religion is okay, but telling them the truth is not okay.
Is that the levels you speak of?
Sorry that was the funniest load of illogical bull I have ever heard from you.
She ended up catching herself out


Loved it and its only natural and normal that she would catch herself out.

Night

no bringing people to faith is ok... that is the truth in my opinion...

only you have decided gay parents are ok.... so that is your opinion...

now do you see your bias, now that is the funniest load of illogical bull I have ever seen..


night...laters...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

The same as you with your  dictating views on Christianity , freedom of speech and all that . It's terrible isn't it when other people's views are different that your own and especially when it is close to your heart .

I don't try to make anyone not practice Christianity. I'm all for free speech. I don't try to change the law so that you can't do the things you want to do; why do you have to try to change the laws to make other people live the way you think they should?

Why do you think you get to decide for other people?

Yes you do try to stop believing, you do it through ridicule and what you would try to categorise as debate but everyone else knows better..

you are not for free speech as you don't want gays spoken of negatively..

why do gays want laws changed to make people accept gays...

why do gays think they get to decide what other people think....

Um, you're totally wrong. I use my own free speech to express what I believe about all religious belief. You are free to (and obviously do) disagree and ignore my arguments.

I have let the likes of you and Tommy say that homosexuality is unnatural, wrong, evil, whatever for time out of mind. I banned the use of slurs, not of expressing your beliefs.

I don't think I've ever heard a single gay person say that laws should force people to "accept" gays, and I don't think gay people are trying to do anything more than that which is their right -- to express their beliefs.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Yes you do try to stop believing, you do it through ridicule and what you would try to categorise as debate but everyone else knows better..

you are not for free speech as you don't want gays spoken of negatively..

why do gays want laws changed to make people accept gays...

why do gays think they get to decide what other people think....

Um, you're totally wrong. I use my own free speech to express what I believe about all religious belief. You are free to (and obviously do) disagree and ignore my arguments.

I have let the likes of you and Tommy say that homosexuality is unnatural, wrong, evil, whatever for time out of mind. I banned the use of slurs, not of expressing your beliefs.

I don't think I've ever heard a single gay person say that laws should force people to "accept" gays, and I don't think gay people are trying to do anything more than that which is their right -- to express their beliefs.

wow thank you so much for allowing people like me freedom of speech, the way you called us idiots was so touching, is that part of your belief of the right to free speech and free thought...

Well you either wear blinkers or you are just blind, the incidents of the Christian b&b and the Christian cake shop that all the gays supported them being taken to court and sued clearly says gays should be accepted at all costs...

they are not expressing their beliefs any more they are encroaching on the rights of others... point in case ...see above..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


So converting people to a religion is okay, but telling them the truth is not okay.
Is that the levels you speak of?
Sorry that was the funniest load of illogical bull I have ever heard from you.
She ended up catching herself out


Loved it and its only natural and normal that she would catch herself out.

Night

no bringing people to faith is ok... that is the truth in my opinion...

only you have decided gay parents are ok.... so that is your opinion...

now do you see your bias, now that is the funniest load of illogical bull I have ever seen..


night...laters...

Have to answer before I go.
Even more illogical and even funnier.
Bias?
All I said was its okay to try and attempt to convince someone what is okay.
Dibs said its not okay to try and convince others in what they believe.
That would mean she means also religion.
So you are now contradicting your wife.

No its just you keep trying to change my view because you can't accept other people believe differently you will just keep coming back with more demands and its boring .


If you respected other beliefs, as your wife claims to do, you would respect the right of people who know that homosexuality is normal and natural. You do not and you try to change minds by your beliefs, the pair of you. Hence the contradiction.

I make no such claim. I make no excuse for tying to change peoples minds away from backward bigotry that discriminates against homosexuality. I stand by my convictions in that it is right to change such a poor view help by people. Just as I am sure you feel the same by bringing people into Christianity.
Its shows her post was complete double standards. Wanting people to change for the better is not wrong, just as you surely believe in wanting people to change for the better in your opinion by coming to Christ.

I thin its perfectly acceptable to change perceptions for the good.
So if she does not like the fact I find some views you both have poor, you will both have to live with that. Though do not cry wolf when you do exactly the same. The difference I happily admit to hoping to change minds. I do not lie about it, like the pair of you



Now there is no need to say anymore.
Maybe one day the pair of you will actually meet some homosexuals for real and understand your views were silly. On that I wish you both the best of luck

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

The same as you with your  dictating views on Christianity , freedom of speech and all that . It's terrible isn't it when other people's views are different that your own and especially when it is close to your heart .

well said...

when they state their views and opinions its final, proven and just debate...

it seems when anyone disagrees with them it's bigotry and dictatorship...

That's the lefties and homoNazis thinking for you... they know best and their opinions are always above everyone elses... all it the name of equality mind!!!

And Tommy attempts to derail the thread with infantile behaviour.

So predicable is poor Tommy

Cuchulain wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

no bringing people to faith is ok... that is the truth in my opinion...

only you have decided gay parents are ok.... so that is your opinion...

now do you see your bias, now that is the funniest load of illogical bull I have ever seen..


night...laters...

Have to answer before I go.
Even more illogical and even funnier.
Bias?
All I said was its okay to try and attempt to convince someone what is okay.
Dibs said its not okay to try and convince others in what they believe.
That would mean she means also religion.
So you are now contradicting your wife.

No its just you keep trying to change my view because you can't accept other people believe differently you will just keep coming back with more demands and its boring .


If you respected other beliefs, as your wife claims to do, you would respect the right of people who know that homosexuality is normal and natural. You do not and you try to change minds by your beliefs, the pair of you. Hence the contradiction.

I make no such claim. I make no excuse for tying to change peoples minds away from backward bigotry that discriminates against homosexuality. I stand by my convictions in that it is right to change such a poor view help by people. Just as I am sure you feel the same by bringing people into Christianity.
Its shows her post was complete double standards. Wanting people to change for the better is not wrong, just as you surely believe in wanting people to change for the better in your opinion by coming to Christ.

I thin its perfectly acceptable to change perceptions for the good.
So if she does not like the fact I find some views you both have poor, you will both have to live with that. Though do not cry wolf when you do exactly the same. The difference I happily admit to hoping to change minds. I do not lie about it, like the pair of you



Now there is no need to say anymore.
Maybe one day the pair of you will actually meet some homosexuals for real and understand your views were silly. On that I wish you both the best of luck

lol do you think we don't know gays..lol

so you think our right to say gay parents are not right or normal is wrong because you disagree with it..

your opinion is of course right because you say so...

well why didn't you just say that and save us dozens of posts...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Yes you do try to stop believing, you do it through ridicule and what you would try to categorise as debate but everyone else knows better..

you are not for free speech as you don't want gays spoken of negatively..

why do gays want laws changed to make people accept gays...

why do gays think they get to decide what other people think....

Um, you're totally wrong. I use my own free speech to express what I believe about all religious belief. You are free to (and obviously do) disagree and ignore my arguments.

I have let the likes of you and Tommy say that homosexuality is unnatural, wrong, evil, whatever for time out of mind. I banned the use of slurs, not of expressing your beliefs.

I don't think I've ever heard a single gay person say that laws should force people to "accept" gays, and I don't think gay people are trying to do anything more than that which is their right -- to express their beliefs.

wow thank you so much for allowing people like me freedom of speech, the way you called us idiots was so touching, is that part of your belief of the right to free speech and free thought...

Well you either wear blinkers or you are just blind, the incidents of the Christian b&b and the Christian cake shop that all the gays supported them being taken to court and sued clearly says gays should be accepted at all costs...

they are not expressing their beliefs any more they are encroaching on the rights of others... point in case ...see above..

HF, let's not pretend like you haven't called me names. And if we're going to get started on those poor business owners who were forced to accept paying customers' money, we might take a look at how gay people continue to be treated by the religious, all over the world, compare the two and decide which we think is worse

Just agreeing with HFs very accurate observation...