South Carolina church shooting: Nine killed in Charleston

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:32 am

First topic message reminder :

Nine people have died in a shooting at a historic African-American church in Charleston in the US state of South Carolina, officials say.
City police chief Gregory Mullen said eight of the victims were killed inside the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church on Thursday evening, while another person died shortly afterwards.
Police are now searching for a white male suspect in his 20s.
"I do believe it was a hate crime," Mr Mullen said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33179019

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:29 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You never proved he did at all - quite the opposite actually. Zimmerman lost sight of Trayvon whilst he was on the phone to the police.

Yes I did.
Anyway answer the question.

It was the wrong question because there is no evidence that Zimmerman did not stop following Trayvon.

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:31 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Yes I did.
Anyway answer the question.

It was the wrong question because there is no evidence that Zimmerman did not stop following Trayvon.

Wrong.
Did Zimmerman ignore the advice of the Police?
Yes.
Would Tm be alive today if Zimmerman had stayed in his car?

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:32 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It was the wrong question because there is no evidence that Zimmerman did not stop following Trayvon.

Wrong.
Did Zimmerman ignore the advice of the Police?
Yes.
Would Tm be alive today if Zimmerman had stayed in his car?

You are wrong.

Answer to the second question is yes. However, getting out of your car is not against the law.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:32 pm

Question: Why didn't Trayvon go home?

Question: Would Trayvon have been scared or annoyed?

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Wrong.
Did Zimmerman ignore the advice of the Police?
Yes.
Would Tm be alive today if Zimmerman had stayed in his car?

You are wrong.

Answer to the second question is yes. However, getting out of your car is not against the law.

So if Zimmerman had stayed in his car, which means he did ignore the Police by getting out of his car, thus proving my point, which you have inadvertently admitted, yoiu admit TM would still be alive.
Thanks
Zimmerman is completely responsible for the child's death.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:35 pm

So when Zimmerman told the police dispatcher that he couldn't see Trayvon, do you think that he could see him?

Why would Zimmerman be running if Trayvon was not running?

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:36 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You are wrong.

Answer to the second question is yes. However, getting out of your car is not against the law.

So if Zimmerman had stayed in his car, which means he did ignore the Police by getting out of his car, thus proving my point, which you have inadvertently admitted, yoiu admit TM would still be alive.
Thanks
Zimmerman is completely responsible for the child's death.

The police dispatcher didn't tell him not to get out of the car.

Next.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:37 pm

Do you think Zimmerman was lying when he said Trayvon ran down towards the back entrance? If so, why would he lie about that?

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:37 pm

Where do you think Trayvon was when Zimmerman got out of his vehicle?

by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:37 pm

Zimmerman was attacked. He retaliated in self defence.

Case closed.

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:37 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

So if Zimmerman had stayed in his car, which means he did ignore the Police by getting out of his car, thus proving my point, which you have inadvertently admitted, yoiu admit TM would still be alive.
Thanks
Zimmerman is completely responsible for the child's death.

The police dispatcher didn't tell him not to get out of the car.

Next.

You just said he would still be alive did you not?
So if he got out of his car, why did he do that Rags?
Why would TM be alive if Zimmerman stayed in the car?

On the ropes lol

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:38 pm

If I followed someone I thought looked suspicious, that doesn't give that person the right to smack me in the face, get me on the ground and try to beat my head on the ground.

by Original Quill Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:40 pm

Well, I think it is clear that Zimmerman intended to kill TM. All the rest was to cover his tracks. His passive-aggressive personality led him to engineer a situation in which he appeared in his pseudo-police role.

Had this been any other case, he would have been convicted. The intervening factor was the racial bias of a southern jury.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:40 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

The police dispatcher didn't tell him not to get out of the car.

Next.

You just said he would still be alive did you not?
So if he got out of his car, why did he do that Rags?
Why would TM be alive if Zimmerman stayed in the car?

On the ropes lol

If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, yes. However, Zimmerman didn't know that Trayvon would confront him and get him on the ground and beat his head on the ground. He merely wanted to know where Trayvon had gone so he could tell the police where he had gone.

Zimmerman getting out of his car didn't give Trayvon the right to assault him. I doubt Trayvon even saw him get out of his car.

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:41 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:If I followed someone I thought looked suspicious, that doesn't give that person the right to smack me in the face, get me on the ground and try to beat my head on the ground.

Wow what a turn around and deflection when you havce realised you havce been caught out.
He followed TM which he admits in the transcript.
His actions led to the confrontation which there is little knowledge to what happened.
Zimmermans actions led to TM dying.
Zimmerman is responsible for his death.
I never once said he murdered him.
I am telling you Zimmerman is responsible for his death.
That is a fact.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:Well, I think it is clear that he intended to kill TM. All the rest was to cover his tracks. His passive-aggressive personality led him to engineer a situation in which he appeared in his pseudo-police role.

Had this been any other case, he would have been convicted. The intervening factor was the racial bias of a southern jury.

I think it's clear he did not intend to kill Trayvon. I think it's clear that he intended to see where he went so he could tell the police.

No jury would have convicted him of murder on the evidence.

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

You just said he would still be alive did you not?
So if he got out of his car, why did he do that Rags?
Why would TM be alive if Zimmerman stayed in the car?

On the ropes lol

If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, yes. However, Zimmerman didn't know that Trayvon would confront him and get him on the ground and beat his head on the ground. He merely wanted to know where Trayvon had gone so he could tell the police where he had gone.

Zimmerman getting out of his car didn't give Trayvon the right to assault him. I doubt Trayvon even saw him get out of his car.

He got out of his car and followed him after being told not to.

South Carolina church shooting: Nine killed in Charleston - Page 8 Full-transcript-zimmerman-p2-normal

South Carolina church shooting: Nine killed in Charleston - Page 8 Full-transcript-zimmerman-p2-normal

You have no leg to stand on.

His actions led to the boys death.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:42 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:If I followed someone I thought looked suspicious, that doesn't give that person the right to smack me in the face, get me on the ground and try to beat my head on the ground.

Wow what a turn around and deflection when you havce realised you havce been caught out.
He followed TM which he admits in the transcript.
His actions led to the confrontation which there is little knowledge to what happened.
Zimmermans actions led to TM dying.
Zimmerman is responsible for his death.
I never once said he murdered him.
I am telling you Zimmerman is responsible for his death.
That is a fact.

Of course he followed him at first - we know that. Then he lost him. Trayvon didn't go home, he waited and he came back and confronted Zimmerman.

It's absurd to say that Zimmerman getting out of his car equates to murdering Trayvon.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:43 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, yes. However, Zimmerman didn't know that Trayvon would confront him and get him on the ground and beat his head on the ground. He merely wanted to know where Trayvon had gone so he could tell the police where he had gone.

Zimmerman getting out of his car didn't give Trayvon the right to assault him. I doubt Trayvon even saw him get out of his car.

He got out of his car and followed him after being told not to.

You have no leg to stand on.

His actions led to the boys death.

Well you're the one who doesn't have a leg to stand on because the jury acquitted Zimmerman - quite rightly.

If Trayvon had not got Zimmerman on the floor, he would be alive.

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Well, I think it is clear that he intended to kill TM. All the rest was to cover his tracks. His passive-aggressive personality led him to engineer a situation in which he appeared in his pseudo-police role.

Had this been any other case, he would have been convicted. The intervening factor was the racial bias of a southern jury.

I think it's clear he did not intend to kill Trayvon. I think it's clear that he intended to see where he went so he could tell the police.

No jury would have convicted him of murder on the evidence.

Then he is responsible for his death.
That is you admitting he is following him.
He is thus responsible for TM's death

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:44 pm

So Trayvon ran towards the back entrance. Why didn't he go home then?

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:45 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

He got out of his car and followed him after being told not to.

You have no leg to stand on.

His actions led to the boys death.

Well you're the one who doesn't have a leg to stand on because the jury acquitted Zimmerman - quite rightly.

If Trayvon had not got Zimmerman on the floor, he would be alive.

Really, what did they acquitt him from?
Am I claiming he was guilty of that?
Nope
Zimmerman by his actions led to TM dying.
Zimmerman is responsible for his death.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:45 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think it's clear he did not intend to kill Trayvon. I think it's clear that he intended to see where he went so he could tell the police.

No jury would have convicted him of murder on the evidence.

Then he is responsible for his death.
That is you admitting he is following him.
He is thus responsible for TM's death

No, that's completely illogical. I said all along that Zimmerman followed him at first. He stopped following him and lost him.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:45 pm

So basically, the Zimmerman-bashers think that he's guilty of murder merely because he got out of his vehicle?

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:46 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:So Trayvon ran towards the back entrance. Why didn't he go home then?

What has that got to do with anything?

Nothing

Unless yoiu are trying to poorly excuse the poor actions taken by Zimmerman.

Zimmerman if he had not followed TM, the boy would still be alive today.

Zimmerman is responsible for his death

by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:46 pm

You are clutching at straws dodge... we all know Martin was on The phone to his girlfriend complaining about zimmerman, calling him by racist terminology.

Martin attacked zimmerman and was then shot in self defence by a legally held firearm.

Case closed.

by Original Quill Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:46 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, yes. However, Zimmerman didn't know that Trayvon would confront him and get him on the ground and beat his head on the ground. He merely wanted to know where Trayvon had gone so he could tell the police where he had gone.

But all based upon the self-serving lies of the accused. Zimmerman certainly could have reasonably expected that TM would defend himself. Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon, defied police orders, caught up and frightened Trayvon, whereupon a fight ensued and Zimmerman shot TM.

All of it was reasonably foreseeable by any thinking person. And a calculating, passive-aggressive person would have engineered the situation based upon that foreseeability. Any jury would have convicted him, except a racist Florida jury.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:47 pm

I see nobody can answer my questions. None of you even tried. Laughing

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:47 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Then he is responsible for his death.
That is you admitting he is following him.
He is thus responsible for TM's death

No, that's completely illogical. I said all along that Zimmerman followed him at first. He stopped following him and lost him.

No its very logical, he went looking for him.
He was told not to.
He clearly continued to look for him.
Did he head back to his car and wait for the Police?
No

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:48 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I see nobody can answer my questions. None of you even tried.

It has no rleevance to my point on responsiblity for Zimmerman.
He left his car and was advised not to follow TM.
He did and this led to TM dying.
Zimmerman is responsible for his death.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, yes. However, Zimmerman didn't know that Trayvon would confront him and get him on the ground and beat his head on the ground. He merely wanted to know where Trayvon had gone so he could tell the police where he had gone.

But all based upon the self-serving lies of the accused. Zimmerman certainly could have reasonably expected that TM would defend himself. Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon, defied police orders, caught up and frightened Trayvon, whereupon a fight ensued and Zimmerman shot TM.

All of it was reasonably foreseeable by any thinking person. And a calculating, passive-aggressive person would have engineered the situation based upon that foreseeability. Any jury would have convicted him, except a racist Florida jury.

But you see, I don't think Zimmerman did catch up with Trayvon. Trayvon ran, Zimmerman went the same direction and lost him.

Where do you think Trayvon was when Zimmerman got out of his car? Do try to answer this time.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:49 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I see nobody can answer my questions. None of you even tried.

It has no rleevance to my point on responsiblity for Zimmerman.
He left his car and was advised not to follow TM.
He did and this led to TM dying.
Zimmerman is responsible for his death.

It shows that you know very well that Zimmerman couldn't have caught up with Trayvon, and therefore, you know very well that didn't happen. You think Zimmerman is guilty merely because he got out of his car. That's just silly.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:52 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No, that's completely illogical. I said all along that Zimmerman followed him at first. He stopped following him and lost him.

No its very logical, he went looking for him.
He was told not to.
He clearly continued to look for him.
Did he head back to his car and wait for the Police?
No

He didn't get a chance to get back to his car.

Your arguments are illogical, and I think you know that, otherwise you would answer my questions.

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:52 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

It has no rleevance to my point on responsiblity for Zimmerman.
He left his car and was advised not to follow TM.
He did and this led to TM dying.
Zimmerman is responsible for his death.

It shows that you know very well that Zimmerman couldn't have caught up with Trayvon, and therefore, you know very well that didn't happen. You think Zimmerman is guilty merely because he got out of his car. That's just silly.

He did catch up with him though as TM was shot dead after a confrontation, so that makes no sense from you
Your last part is a poor deflection again, because you are on the ropes.

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

No its very logical, he went looking for him.
He was told not to.
He clearly continued to look for him.
Did he head back to his car and wait for the Police?
No

He didn't get a chance to get back to his car.

Your arguments are illogical, and I think you know that, otherwise you would answer my questions.

Really, at no point could he have gone back to his car?
Babble.
He should have never left the car.
He should never have followed him.
He wrongly suspected an innocent child of a crime.
I am going home, but please let me know when these points sink in.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:53 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It shows that you know very well that Zimmerman couldn't have caught up with Trayvon, and therefore, you know very well that didn't happen. You think Zimmerman is guilty merely because he got out of his car. That's just silly.

He did catch up with him though as TM was shot dead after a confrontation, so that makes no sense from you
Your last part is a poor deflection again, because you are on the ropes.

No. Trayvon came back and confronted Zimmerman because he knew Zimmerman had been watching him. He didn't like that, which is understandable, but it didn't give him the right to assault Zimmerman. All he had to say was that he was staying at his father's house, and he would be alive now.

by Original Quill Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:So basically, the Zimmerman-bashers think that he's guilty of murder merely because he got out of his vehicle?

No, the principal facts were that Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon. Why do that? The second fact that points to his guilt was his defying the orders of police. Who does that? It is clear that Zimmerman was bound and determined to have a confrontation with Trayvon, and he succeeded.

It is clear that he was wanting something to happen before he left home that night. Perhaps he was seeking reification after the confrontation with his wife.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:54 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

He didn't get a chance to get back to his car.

Your arguments are illogical, and I think you know that, otherwise you would answer my questions.

Really, at no point could he have gone back to his car?
Babble.
He should have never left the car.
He should never have followed him.
He wrongly suspected an innocent child of a crime.
I am going home, but please let me know when these points sink in.

So, as I said, you are basing his guilt on the fact he got out of his car. In that case, why did they bother with a trial? Everyone knew he got out of his car - it's on the audio of the phone call.

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:55 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

He did catch up with him though as TM was shot dead after a confrontation, so that makes no sense from you
Your last part is a poor deflection again, because you are on the ropes.

No. Trayvon came back and confronted Zimmerman because he knew Zimmerman had been watching him. He didn't like that, which is understandable, but it didn't give him the right to assault Zimmerman. All he had to say was that he was staying at his father's house, and he would be alive now.

First part hearsay.
Second part hearsay again.
Tm did not have to do anything because he had committed no crime.
Why should TM do anything, he was not stalking Zimmerman, as Zimmerman clearly thought he was a criminal suspect.
Your flagging badly now.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:56 pm

The arguments you guys are coming out with are laughable. It's particularly laughable coming from Quill, who claims to be a lawyer.

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:56 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Really, at no point could he have gone back to his car?
Babble.
He should have never left the car.
He should never have followed him.
He wrongly suspected an innocent child of a crime.
I am going home, but please let me know when these points sink in.

So, as I said, you are basing his guilt on the fact he got out of his car. In that case, why did they bother with a trial? Everyone knew he got out of his car - it's on the audio of the phone call.

Guilt?
Responsibility for the boys death by his actions.
Read back

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:57 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No. Trayvon came back and confronted Zimmerman because he knew Zimmerman had been watching him. He didn't like that, which is understandable, but it didn't give him the right to assault Zimmerman. All he had to say was that he was staying at his father's house, and he would be alive now.

First part hearsay.
Second part hearsay again.
Tm did not have to do anything because he had committed no crime.
Why should TM do anything, he was not stalking Zimmerman, as Zimmerman clearly thought he was a criminal suspect.
Your flagging badly now.

It's logic - something you seem to be lacking.

All your arguments have been based on Zimmerman getting out of his car, and some trumped up story that he managed to catch up with Trayvon. I suppose you don't call that "hearsay".

You don't even know what hearsay is.

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:57 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:The arguments you guys are coming out with are laughable. It's particularly laughable coming from Quill, who claims to be a lawyer.

1,
2,
3,

someone get Rags a spounge, I think she knocked herself out wth that deflection.

4,
5,
6,
7,
8,
9,
10 she's out cold.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:57 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So, as I said, you are basing his guilt on the fact he got out of his car. In that case, why did they bother with a trial? Everyone knew he got out of his car - it's on the audio of the phone call.

So you don't think he's guilty of murder now?

Guilt?
Responsibility for the boys death by his actions.
Read back

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:58 pm

The case is closed. You two have made fools of yourselves, and you can't even answer simple questions. lol!

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:58 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

First part hearsay.
Second part hearsay again.
Tm did not have to do anything because he had committed no crime.
Why should TM do anything, he was not stalking Zimmerman, as Zimmerman clearly thought he was a criminal suspect.
Your flagging badly now.

It's logic - something you seem to be lacking.

All your arguments have been based on Zimmerman getting out of his car, and some trumped up story that he managed to catch up with Trayvon. I suppose you don't call that "hearsay".

You don't even know what hearsay is.

Nothing to refute my points more deflections

by Guest Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:58 pm

That was great fun, see you all later people.

by Original Quill Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:59 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:No. Trayvon came back and confronted Zimmerman because he knew Zimmerman had been watching him.

There is no evidence to that effect. Of course, at some point Travon stopped, perhaps because Zimmerman grabbed him; perhaps because he stopped to ask why he (Zimmerman) was behaving so strangely. The pattern is clear: Zimmerman disobeys police and stalks > he catches up with Trayvon > he shoots Trayvon. All intervening facts are simply self-serving verbiage.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:00 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's logic - something you seem to be lacking.

All your arguments have been based on Zimmerman getting out of his car, and some trumped up story that he managed to catch up with Trayvon. I suppose you don't call that "hearsay".

You don't even know what hearsay is.

Nothing to refute my points more deflections

You haven't made any valid points. I answered your questions, but you couldn't answer mine - because you know that if you did, you would be forced to concede that Zimmerman acted in self defence.

by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:00 pm

Martin attacked zimmerman and was shot in self defence.

Case closed.

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