Texas shooting: At least 26 worshippers killed after gunman opens fire at church in Sutherland Springs

At least 26 worshippers were killed when a gunman opened fire inside a small church in a quiet Texas town on Sunday.

America's latest mass shooting happened during a Sunday service at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, a community of 400 people about 30 miles southeast of San Antonio.

Texas Governor Greg Abbott said 26 people died, with the victims ranging in age from 5 to 72 years old.

The gunman was dressed all in black tactical gear with a ballistic vest and had an assault rifle, Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman Freeman Martin said.

As he left the church a heroic local resident grabbed his gun and "engaged" him. The gunman got in his vehicle but it ran off the road and he was found dead.

A total of 23 victims were found dead in the church, two were found outside the church, and one person died in hospital. Mr Abbott said it as the worst mass shooting in modern Texas history.

The gunman was named by US media outlets as Devin Kelley, 26, who lived in San Antonio.

Kelley was dishonourably discharged from the Air Force after facing a court martial in 2014, CBS News reported.

Among the victims was the teenage daughter of the pastor at the small Texas church.

Pastor Frank Pomeroy said he and his wife Sherri were out of town when the attack happened at the First Baptist Church but their 14-year-old daughter Annabelle was among more than 20 killed.

Annabelle “was one very beautiful, special child,” Mr Pomeroy told ABC News.

His wife said “many friends” had died.

Fake President Trump, who is on a trip to Asia, wrote on Twitter: "May God be with the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas. The FBI and law enforcement are on the scene. I am monitoring the situation from Japan."

Theresa May, the Prime Minister, tweeted: "Tragic loss of life in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Thoughts and prayers with all those affected by this terrible shooting."

Sunday services at the small white church are usually attended by about 50 people, local residents said.

It was not immediately clear if the gunman was shot by officers or killed himself.

"There was no police chase," sheriff's spokesman Sergeant Robert Murphy in neighbouring Guadalupe County said, denying earlier media reports that the gunman was killed after a pursuit. "He was in his vehicle.”

Wilson County Commissioner Albert Gamez Jr said his "heart is broken".

"You never think this can happen but it can, it doesn't matter where you're at. Look at what can happen. It's a tragic day, massive."

He added: "The gunman took off. They were in a pursuit. They told me he's deceased, I don't know if he shot himself or not.

"It's a small community, small church, real nice community. Man, you never expect something like this. We don't know what would inspire a guy to start shooting like that.

"I got a call and they told me there was a big scene going on with a lot of shooting. The details are sketchy, we're trying to find out what's gone on."

One witness, a cashier at a petrol station over the road from the church, said she heard dozens of shots being fired in rapid succession while the church service was going on.

Carrie Matula said: "We heard semi-automatic gunfire. We're only about 50 yards away from this church. This is a very small community so everyone was very curious as to what was going on."

Dana Fletcher, a nearby shopkeeper, said: "It's a little church in a very small community, I don't know why it would be targeted. It's a very tight knit community. People all know each other."

She added: "People weren't sure whether there was more than one gunman."

The shooting came just over a month after a gunman in Las Vegas, firing down from a hotel room, killed 58 people and wounded hundreds attending an outdoor concert.

Two years agoa white supremacist, Dylann Roof, entered a black church in Charleston, South Carolina, and shot nine people to death.

A spokeswoman for Connally Memorial Medical Center in Floresville, near Sutherland Springs, said: "We have accepted a number of patients from the shooting".

Helicopters and emergency personnel converged on the scene along with agents form the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Greg Abbott, the Texas governor, said: "Our prayers are with all who were harmed by this evil act. Our thanks to law enforcement for their response."

Ted Cruz, the Texas Senator, said: "Keeping all harmed in Sutherland Springs in our prayers and grateful for our brave first responders on the scene."

A woman who lives about 10 minutes away from Sutherland Springs in Floresville and was monitoring the chaos on a police scanner and in Facebook community groups, said that everyone knows everyone in the sparsely populated county.

"This is horrific for our tiny little tight-knit town," said Alena Berlanga. "Everybody's going to be affected and everybody knows someone who's affected," she said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/05/multiple-casualties-texas-church-shooting/

This is Devin Kelly, he taught bible study.   He's white, so they will say he was suffering from mental problems.

Horrifying, those poor people and their families.
There seems to be so much needless hatred in this world .

RIP the 26 victims.

While Trump tweeting tripe about praying for the victims (they were bloody praying FFS!) this was Senator Chris Murphy's response

Thanks for all the info, sassy. The small close-knit rural community rallied round very quickly to help each other. The emergency services personel are all volunteers. A very soft, easy target attacked by a heartless young man.

Apparently the service was on YT so the gunman may have been captured in film before death.
RIP. God bless them. x

Every.Single.Day.

I’m sick of the needless deaths.

I’m sick of feeling that I’m becoming de-sensitized to these deaths.

I’m sick of feeling nervous at my work or at the frigging grocery store because some asshole with a small dick has to parade his gun for all to see.

I’m sick of feeling like I may need to buy one myself even though I know that’s not the answer.

I’m sick of the lone wolf line. It’s domestic terrorism pure and simple.

But then again, if the deaths of 20 children don’t faze the NRA and all of their groupies, then what will? Add in a 5 year old and a 14 year old today.

God dammit

It's the south.  Guns and killing are simply pastimes when they have too much time on their hands.

When you get tired of it, come to California and help us form the Pacific States of America.  The US is lost over to Nazism and the white supremacists.  We are the last refuge of sanity on the American continent.

On early appearances, this nutter seems to have some similarities to Breivik in Norway,  Marin Bryant down in Port Arthur in Tasmania back in the 1990s, the Oklahoma City bombing...

Those domestic terrorists were all white, unhinged loner types pissed off at the world, looking to kill as many people as easily as possible in as short a time as possible..

Even though they may have some white supremacist, neo-nazi beliefs, connections to militia or fringe groups, and show deep hatred towards government and authority and society in general, often those factors appear to be symptons of their lunacy --   rather than being the actual root cause.

It's always a pity that they don't decide to shoot themselves first, before slaughtering so many innocents..

an atheist terrorist slaughtering innocent church goers

as bad as any of the vermin in ISIS

Cass wrote:Every.Single.Day.

I’m sick of the needless deaths.

I’m sick of feeling that I’m becoming de-sensitized to these deaths.

I’m sick of feeling nervous at my work or at the frigging grocery store because some asshole with a small dick has to parade his gun for all to see.

I’m sick of feeling like I may need to buy one myself even though I know that’s not the answer.

I’m sick of the lone wolf line. It’s domestic terrorism pure and simple.

But then again, if the deaths of 20 children don’t faze the NRA and all of their groupies, then what will? Add in a 5 year old and a 14 year old today.

God dammit

the Muslim murderer in NY didnt have a gun

he used a car

smelly-bandit wrote:
an atheist terrorist slaughtering innocent church goers

as bad as any of the vermin in ISIS

Where's your evidence that he was an "atheist", SmellyRumourMongerBumski ?

Early reports have him as a former Bible teacher (wouldn't trust any of those "Sunday school" teachers and bible_group_bashers as far as I could kick them, personally..).

And a USAF reject/dishonourable discharge..

smelly-bandit wrote:

Cass wrote:Every.Single.Day.

I’m sick of the needless deaths.

I’m sick of feeling that I’m becoming de-sensitized to these deaths.

I’m sick of feeling nervous at my work or at the frigging grocery store because some asshole with a small dick has to parade his gun for all to see.

I’m sick of feeling like I may need to buy one myself even though I know that’s not the answer.

I’m sick of the lone wolf line. It’s domestic terrorism pure and simple.

But then again, if the deaths of 20 children don’t faze the NRA and all of their groupies, then what will? Add in a 5 year old and a 14 year old today.

God dammit

the Muslim murderer in NY didnt have a gun

he used a car

The correct phrase would be "Islamist" murderer, SmellyIlliterateDuncski...

But then, you're too much of a thicko to realise the difference, aren't you ?!?

sassy wrote:This is Devin Kelly, he taught bible study.   He's white, so they will say he was suffering from mental problems.

the elephant in the room IS of course this

let us assume that ALL these random (AS DISTINCT FROM "murder for gain/escape/personal grudges" etc) killings are the result of mental issues
let us also restrict the argument to the UK
let us THEN consider the number of mass killings by "white" nutters and by islamic nutters as a PERCENTAGE of their relevant population


the results I assure you would definitly lead to the conclusion that islam causes mental issues.

the issue in the states is somewhat different to over here....

they are ALL batshit crazy

Fucking Moron

Texas shooting was not a random act as the suspect had connection with church, says Governor Greg Abbott

'Law enforcement is looking very aggressively into this'


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-shooting-suspect-church-connection-devin-patrick-kelley-governor-greg-abbott-sutherland-a8040171.html


They don't believe it was random.

Cass wrote:Every.Single.Day.

I’m sick of the needless deaths.

I’m sick of feeling that I’m becoming de-sensitized to these deaths.

I’m sick of feeling nervous at my work or at the frigging grocery store because some asshole with a small dick has to parade his gun for all to see.

I’m sick of feeling like I may need to buy one myself even though I know that’s not the answer.

I’m sick of the lone wolf line. It’s domestic terrorism pure and simple.

But then again, if the deaths of 20 children don’t faze the NRA and all of their groupies, then what will? Add in a 5 year old and a 14 year old today.

God dammit

Nowt to do with guns says the orange pig. FGS!!!!!

the liberal hate mob must love it when a white lunatic does a run and gun

it allows them all to say "hey look Muslims are the only ones doing the killing so its ok"

but this isnt automatically a terror attack.

what was he motivation, what ideology does he follow??

a lunatic is just a lunatic, but a lunatic who kills in the name of something is a terrorist.

a Muslim can never just be a lunatic on a killing spree because whenever they kills its always in the name of islam

sb wrote:but this isnt automatically a terror attack.

So, you're saying there was no terror involved in this shooting? Seems to me that terror is as terror does.

Now, if you want to get into motive, right now it's a simple case of redneck terrorism...such as we saw in Charlottesville.

Trump seems at pains to define this as generic mental disease, but that is just sidestepping the question. All rednecks are mentally diseased...they run around in pickup trucks and cowboy hats, shooting guns in the air and yelling, Whar dem niggahs at?!

Perhaps this a special sub-set of redneck terror, known as Trumpanzee frenzie.

smelly-bandit wrote:the liberal hate mob must love it when a white lunatic does a run and gun

it allows them all to say "hey look Muslims are the only ones doing the killing so its ok"

but this isnt automatically a terror attack.

what was he motivation, what ideology does he follow??

a lunatic is just a lunatic, but a lunatic who kills in the name of something is a terrorist.

a Muslim can never just be a lunatic on a killing spree because whenever they kills its always in the name of islam

Yeah, liberals love people being murdered so that a point is proven.

Load of Bollocks Quill, he was just a nutter with a gun,

[Red Neck or not]

nicko wrote:Load of Bollocks Quill,  he was just a nutter with a gun...

You've never been to the south, have you? That's the very definition of a redneck.

A terrible and completely senseless attack on innocent people.


Luckily a couple of the people under attack had guns themselves and were able to shoot back at the attacker and repel him... or there would have been many more shot and injured/killed...


Here in UK it is only the criminals who can get hold of guns...

Tommy Monk wrote:Luckily a couple of the people under attack had guns themselves and were able to shoot back at the attacker and repel him... or there would have been many more shot and injured/killed...

Everybody in the south has guns. If they didn't have Kelly to shoot at, they would have gone n' shot up that church theyselves.

Original Quill wrote:

sb wrote:but this isnt automatically a terror attack.

So, you're saying there was no terror involved in this shooting?  Seems to me that terror is as terror does.

Now, if you want to get into motive, right now it's a simple case of redneck terrorism...such as we saw in Charlottesville.

Trump seems at pains to define this as generic mental disease, but that is just sidestepping the question.  All rednecks are mentally diseased...they run around in pickup trucks and cowboy hats, shooting guns in the air and yelling, Whar dem niggahs at?!  

Perhaps this a special sub-set of redneck terror, known as Trumpanzee frenzie.

this because you're a simple minded person quil, and you want to be emotional and hysterical, its easier for you to abandon all reason and logic and just embrace the trump bashing.

i remember you before trump got elected and you were quite different then, astute, very coherent and articulate, and though i blush now to admit it, i considered you a worthy adversary.

now you're just broken, trump broke you, you're suffering from PTSD, gone is the calm and collected demeanor, now you're just like a drooling lobotomized idiot shrieking helpless at the sky, youre no better than wolfie.

i cant really take you seriously when you come out with emotional shit like this "All rednecks are mentally diseased...they run around in pickup trucks and cowboy hats, shooting guns in the air and yelling, [i]Whar dem niggahs at?!"

its like you live in a fantasy world, how does one have a conversation with a mental patient???

you will call this terrorism because it allows you to somehow blame trump and the fact that its a white is even better for your narrative, it allows you to divert attention away from your favorite religious ethnic minorities.

the fact is that if this was a Muslim hitting a church you wouldn't even be logged in today

smelly-bandit wrote:the liberal hate mob must love it when a white lunatic does a run and gun

it allows them all to say "hey look Muslims are the only ones doing the killing so its ok"

but this isnt automatically a terror attack.

what was he motivation, what ideology does he follow??

according to his social media accounts he follows CNN (fake news) he is affiliated with UAF according to his voting details.

gelico wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:the liberal hate mob must love it when a white lunatic does a run and gun

it allows them all to say "hey look Muslims are the only ones doing the killing so its ok"

but this isnt automatically a terror attack.

what was he motivation, what ideology does he follow??

according to his social media accounts he follows CNN (fake news) he is affiliated with UAF according to his voting details.

so he is an antifa/ UAF thug??

well, now we have his motivation, now we have him as a terrorist

a left wing liberal ashiest anti conservative terrorists who is no different to ISIS.

it would appear that the rednecks are not the only ones with mental disorders, the left seem to be pacing them neck and neck. But of course as with everything, some people will be happy to turn a blind eye on this

sassy wrote:Texas shooting was not a random act as the suspect had connection with church, says Governor Greg Abbott

'Law enforcement is looking very aggressively into this'


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-shooting-suspect-church-connection-devin-patrick-kelley-governor-greg-abbott-sutherland-a8040171.html


They don't believe it was random.

Apparently he sent threatening texts to family members so they’re calling it a domestic issue rather than terrorism. FFS. So the people in the church weren’t terrorized. That makes it ok then.


Guess some people need to learn how to understand a definition of a word. There are no absolutes in this instance.


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorism

terrorism
[ter-uh-riz-uh m]
noun
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

It doesn’t say only for political reasons...

guns are bad

guns are evil

Pictured: The two heroic locals who shot Texas gunman outside the church, chased him in their truck at 95mph and ran him off the road before he killed himself

wo quick-thinking locals have been hailed as heroes for stopping the man responsible for the worst ever mass shooting in Texas which left 26 dead.

Stephen Willeford, 55, confronted gunman Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, when he was leaving First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, wounding him, before he and Johnnie Langendorff, 27, chased him in a car after he fled.

During the 95mph car chase, Kelley lost control of his vehicle and ran off the road, before shooting himself in the head. He called his father shortly before to say he had been shot and didn't think he was going to make it.

Texas Department of Public Safety Regional Director Freeman Martin said Willeford, a keen biker, had 'grabbed his rifle and engaged the suspect'.

A local resident told DailyMail.com that Willeford, who attends a different church, was first alerted to the shooting when his daughter called him saying there was a man in body armor gunning down church goers during mass.

He grabbed his gun and headed down to confront the gunman.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052815/Hero-tackled-armed-shooter-left-church.html

"All rednecks are mentally diseased...they run around in pickup trucks and cowboy hats, shooting guns in the air and yelling, [i]Whar dem niggahs at?!"


- Quill

Oh, thank God. Nothing but a domestic squabble, settled by killing dozens of people. I feel so much safer knowing he wasn't shouting words in Arabic but was merely an American gun-owner using the guns the way the manufacturer intended.

Who cares? Who cares why this asshole decided to take a gun and massacre these people? Does it change anything? Are we better off knowing why? Will the families be whole again? No. Forget knowing the "why". It changes nothing. Knowing why doesn't stop the next asshole with a gun. You know what can change things? Lawmakers that actually pass laws that make a difference. Knowing "why" is useless.

This is an assault weapon in the hands of an angry unstable person issue. The underlying reason he snapped is irrelevant. I believe these events are planned and it’s just a matter of time before the plan is acted upon. What other weapon can kill dozens in a matter of seconds? What other weapon is made for the sole purpose of killing people? I know we will never have gun control in America in my lifetime but surely we can limit access to these weapons. Oh wait, the NRA controls our legislative process. Never mind. Carry on. Buy stock in gun manufacturing companies and pray you don’t get gunned down in church, at the movies, at a concert, at school, in a Walmart.

Thoughts and prayers to all. Oh wait. They don’t do a damn thing. But that’s all our spineless leaders will say while continuing to stuff their pockets full of money from the NRA and gun lobbyists. Asshats.

Brilliantly said Cass. If I could give you ten greens, I would.

Cass wrote:Oh, thank God.  Nothing but a domestic squabble, settled by killing dozens of people. I feel so much safer knowing he wasn't shouting words in Arabic but was merely an American gun-owner using the guns the way the manufacturer intended.

Who cares?  Who cares why this asshole decided to take a gun and massacre these people?  Does it change anything?  Are we better off knowing why? Will the families be whole again?  No.  Forget knowing the "why".  It changes nothing.  Knowing why doesn't stop the next asshole with a gun.  You know what can change things?  Lawmakers that actually pass laws that make a difference.  Knowing "why" is useless.

This is an assault weapon in the hands of an angry unstable person issue. The underlying reason he snapped is irrelevant. I believe these events are planned and it’s just a matter of time before the plan is acted upon. What other weapon can kill dozens in a matter of seconds? What other weapon is made for the sole purpose of killing people? I know we will never have gun control in America in my lifetime but surely we can limit access to these weapons. Oh wait, the NRA controls our legislative process. Never mind. Carry on. Buy stock in gun manufacturing companies and pray you don’t get gunned down in church, at the movies, at a concert, at school, in a Walmart.

Thoughts and prayers to all. Oh wait. They don’t do a damn thing. But that’s all our spineless leaders will say while continuing to stuff their pockets full of money from the NRA and gun lobbyists. Asshats.

grow up.

the Muslim in new York used a CAR

i dont hear you calling for the banning of cars so stop using the corpses of these people as your self righteous soapbox to preach your ant conservative narrative

its point scoring and its vile.

you're ignoring the fact that two bystanders shot and stopped him WITH THEIR GUNS.

instead f whining about the guns you should be calling for more guns

if the church goers were armed it would have been a much lower body count and your soapbox reduced to a step up.

smelly-bandit wrote:

"All rednecks are mentally diseased...they run around in pickup trucks and cowboy hats, shooting guns in the air and yelling, Whar dem niggahs at?!"

- Quill

Mirror-image point. You're not very creative, are you?  

Original Quill wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

"All rednecks are mentally diseased...they run around in pickup trucks and cowboy hats, shooting guns in the air and yelling, Whar dem niggahs at?!"

- Quill

Mirror-image point.     You're not very creative, are you?  

Don't need to be creative with you Quill

You're a blundering oaf, a buffoon.

You declare all rednecks to be coy boy hat wearing, gun toting lunatics hell bent on killing blacks.

This man fits your description and yet he is a coy owner hat wearing gun toting hero who no doubt saved lives.

You refuse to see any other angle other than your own.

This man destroys your narrative that guns are evil, guns saved lives here, but you will do what you always do and simply ignore anything that contradicts your narrative

some of the twitter comments are vile

''probably trumpsters so good riddance to them''

and various more in the same vein

sb wrote:Don't need to be creative with you Quill

You're a blundering oaf, a buffoon.

I was reading your posts this morning, and thinking, all of his talents are invested in names. He can't discuss how things work, how arguments are framed, or how to discourse intellectually.

Too bad. You've got the energy, but nowhere to put it.

sb wrote:You refuse to see any other angle other than your own.

That's because I'm careful to think things through first, and I'm not afraid to make a decision. As Sheldon Wolin said so often: ...thought before action.

sb wrote:This man destroys your narrative that guns are evil, guns saved lives here, but you will do what you always do and simply ignore anything that contradicts your narrative.

Not ignore, but put some sense into the situation. Which one was the looney? The guy who shot up the church, or the guy who shot at the guy who shot up the church? Both had loaded weapons and knew little or nothing about whom they were shooting.

You never hear about the millions of rednecks who made a mistake and shot off their guns, hitting the wrong person. As soon as that happens, the NRA simply redefines them from 'good guys' to 'bad guys', and that's that. If guns were not available, none of it would have started.

gelico wrote:

some of the twitter comments are vile

''probably trumpsters so good riddance to them''

and various more in the same vein

this must be how it felt to be a jew during the rise of the nazis

we are definitely seeing similarities between the liberals and the hate the Jews experienced under the Nazis

Original Quill wrote:

sb wrote:Don't need to be creative with you Quill

You're a blundering oaf, a buffoon.

I was reading your posts this morning, and thinking, all of his talents are invested in names.  He can't discuss how things work, how arguments are framed, or how to discourse intellectually.

Too bad.  You've got the energy, but nowhere to put it.

there is no argument to be had with you

your arguments all start with "trump is to blame for all the evils in the world" proceed along the line of "trump is to blame for all the evils in the world" and end with "trump is to blame for all the evils in the world"

trump could bring ISIS down, he could bring NK to the negotiating table and get them to disarm, could convince china to embrace democracy and end the middle east crisis, and you would still be arguing that trump is to blame for all the worlds evils

its like you're a customer services rep and you're reading from a script

i did try with you, but there comes a time when you just gotta cut your loses

Original Quill wrote:

sb wrote:This man destroys your narrative that guns are evil, guns saved lives here, but you will do what you always do and simply ignore anything that contradicts your narrative.

Not ignore, but put some sense into the situation.  Which one was the looney?  The guy who shot up the church, or the guy who shot at the guy who shot up the church?  Both had loaded weapons and knew little or nothing about whom they were shooting.

You never hear about the millions of rednecks who made a mistake and shot off their guns, hitting the wrong person.  As soon as that happens, the NRA simply redefines them from 'good guys' to 'bad guys', and that's that.  If guns were not available, none of it would have started.

the world is calling him a hero because he shot the shooter and you're questioning his motives, its that kind of narrow minded perspective that just makes you a joke, you wont, cant acknowledge that guns saved lives in this instance because you're narratives falls apart as soon as you do.

like i said quill

time to cut my losses

smelly-bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Not ignore, but put some sense into the situation.  Which one was the looney?  The guy who shot up the church, or the guy who shot at the guy who shot up the church?  Both had loaded weapons and knew little or nothing about whom they were shooting.

You never hear about the millions of rednecks who made a mistake and shot off their guns, hitting the wrong person.  As soon as that happens, the NRA simply redefines them from 'good guys' to 'bad guys', and that's that.  If guns were not available, none of it would have started.

the world is calling him a hero because he shot the shooter and you're questioning his motives, its that kind of narrow minded perspective that just makes you a joke, you wont, cant acknowledge that guns saved lives in this instance because you're narratives falls apart as soon as you do.

Only the redneck world, Russ. And then only so long as they don't lose a loved one in the fracus. It's all runs like an episode of Law and Order, until you really have to pay something.

That's what the NRA is selling you...television shows.

Original Quill wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

the world is calling him a hero because he shot the shooter and you're questioning his motives, its that kind of narrow minded perspective that just makes you a joke, you wont, cant acknowledge that guns saved lives in this instance because you're narratives falls apart as soon as you do.  

Only the redneck world, Russ.  And then only so long as they don't lose a loved one in the fracus.  It's all runs like an episode of Law and Order, until you really have to pay something.

That's what the NRA is selling you...television shows.

so excuse my ignorance but how is the NRA really relevant if it's in the actual American constitution that it's legal to have a gun - I heard he had that gun illegally but how would it have been illegal? is there a certain criteria needed to be met to own a gun? i know nothing of the actual legal technicalities

gelico wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Only the redneck world, Russ.  And then only so long as they don't lose a loved one in the fracus.  It's all runs like an episode of Law and Order, until you really have to pay something.

That's what the NRA is selling you...television shows.

so excuse my ignorance but how is the NRA really relevant if it's in the actual American constitution that it's legal to have a gun  -  I heard he had that gun illegally but how would it have been illegal?  is there a certain criteria needed to be met to own a gun?  i know nothing of the actual legal technicalities

It's the right of every American to bear arms.

The NRA is just a punch bag for liberals like Quill who would strip the rights from all. Americans

smelly bandit wrote:Don't need to be creative with you Quill

You're a blundering oaf, a buffoon.

What a shame that you feel the need to speak to a thoroughly decent and intelligent man like Quill in that manner. Consult a mirror before you throw words like that around.

You should take another look at your sig too, the first part. Your own sig describes you 100%, in fact I think you nailed it.

Jules wrote:

smelly bandit wrote:Don't need to be creative with you Quill

You're a blundering oaf, a buffoon.

What a shame that you feel the need to speak to a thoroughly decent and intelligent man like Quill in that manner. Consult a mirror before you throw words like that around.

You should take another look at your sig too, the first part. Your own sig describes you 100%, in fact I think you nailed it.

Yeah, I often think that. It's ironic, really.

sassy wrote: ...
They don't believe it was random.

Regarding this good Samaritan story. Call me cynical but when I first heard it, I immediately thought it's the sort of story the NRA would put out there as a damage limitation exercise. First there was one good Samaritan, now there are suddenly two, who allegedly challenged the shooter, chased him, shot him and so on.

It might well be a true story  and good on them if it is ..... but can ANY of it be proven in any way?  

Jules wrote:

sassy wrote: ...
They don't believe it was random.

Regarding this good Samaritan story. Call me cynical but when I first heard it, I immediately thought it's the sort of story the NRA would put out there as a damage limitation exercise. First there was one good Samaritan, now there are suddenly two, who allegedly challenged the shooter, chased him, shot him and so on.

It might well be a true story  and good on them if it is ..... but can ANY of it be proven in any way?  

I can't make out why they are calling him/them good samaritain/s. Can you imagine a madman on the road with an assault weapon, being chased by vigilantes at 95mph, and what might have happened if there was a school bus/children crossing etc etc. Absolutely pure luck that it didn't involve more deaths

The US has more guns than it has ever had. We have more people carrying guns, than we have had in anyone on here's lifetime. The murder rate is at historic lows. You are far safer in the US, than in at least 60 years. However, one thing has changed. The number of mass shootings. They are going up. There has to be something going on mentally in this country. Now, for the most part, these are young males (the Vegas shooter was an outlier). Somewhere along the way, we have raised a crop of young men, that don't know how to deal with the fact that life can suck at times. They don't realize, that trophies are not awarded for participation in the real world. They have not learned how to cope with failure, because parents have protected them from failure. The same mentality and thought process that makes a collegiate "snowflake" cry, when presented with ideas they don't agree with, now make these shooting "snowflakes" go crazy when the results of their endeavors are not what they envisioned. They stomp their feet, hold their breath, and declare that life is not fair and they want to do something about it.

This may sound sexist, but I don't care. As a man who has raised 3 daughters to be twice the man of most men, it's time we start raising boys to be men again in this country.