Texas shooting: At least 26 worshippers killed after gunman opens fire at church in Sutherland Springs

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At least 26 worshippers were killed when a gunman opened fire inside a small church in a quiet Texas town on Sunday.

America's latest mass shooting happened during a Sunday service at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, a community of 400 people about 30 miles southeast of San Antonio.

Texas Governor Greg Abbott said 26 people died, with the victims ranging in age from 5 to 72 years old.

The gunman was dressed all in black tactical gear with a ballistic vest and had an assault rifle, Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman Freeman Martin said.

As he left the church a heroic local resident grabbed his gun and "engaged" him. The gunman got in his vehicle but it ran off the road and he was found dead.

A total of 23 victims were found dead in the church, two were found outside the church, and one person died in hospital. Mr Abbott said it as the worst mass shooting in modern Texas history.

The gunman was named by US media outlets as Devin Kelley, 26, who lived in San Antonio.

Kelley was dishonourably discharged from the Air Force after facing a court martial in 2014, CBS News reported.

Among the victims was the teenage daughter of the pastor at the small Texas church.

Pastor Frank Pomeroy said he and his wife Sherri were out of town when the attack happened at the First Baptist Church but their 14-year-old daughter Annabelle was among more than 20 killed.

Annabelle “was one very beautiful, special child,” Mr Pomeroy told ABC News.

His wife said “many friends” had died.

Fake President Trump, who is on a trip to Asia, wrote on Twitter: "May God be with the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas. The FBI and law enforcement are on the scene. I am monitoring the situation from Japan."

Theresa May, the Prime Minister, tweeted: "Tragic loss of life in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Thoughts and prayers with all those affected by this terrible shooting."

Sunday services at the small white church are usually attended by about 50 people, local residents said.

It was not immediately clear if the gunman was shot by officers or killed himself.

"There was no police chase," sheriff's spokesman Sergeant Robert Murphy in neighbouring Guadalupe County said, denying earlier media reports that the gunman was killed after a pursuit. "He was in his vehicle.”

Wilson County Commissioner Albert Gamez Jr said his "heart is broken".

"You never think this can happen but it can, it doesn't matter where you're at. Look at what can happen. It's a tragic day, massive."

He added: "The gunman took off. They were in a pursuit. They told me he's deceased, I don't know if he shot himself or not.

"It's a small community, small church, real nice community. Man, you never expect something like this. We don't know what would inspire a guy to start shooting like that.

"I got a call and they told me there was a big scene going on with a lot of shooting. The details are sketchy, we're trying to find out what's gone on."

One witness, a cashier at a petrol station over the road from the church, said she heard dozens of shots being fired in rapid succession while the church service was going on.

Carrie Matula said: "We heard semi-automatic gunfire. We're only about 50 yards away from this church. This is a very small community so everyone was very curious as to what was going on."

Dana Fletcher, a nearby shopkeeper, said: "It's a little church in a very small community, I don't know why it would be targeted. It's a very tight knit community. People all know each other."

She added: "People weren't sure whether there was more than one gunman."

The shooting came just over a month after a gunman in Las Vegas, firing down from a hotel room, killed 58 people and wounded hundreds attending an outdoor concert.

Two years agoa white supremacist, Dylann Roof, entered a black church in Charleston, South Carolina, and shot nine people to death.

A spokeswoman for Connally Memorial Medical Center in Floresville, near Sutherland Springs, said: "We have accepted a number of patients from the shooting".

Helicopters and emergency personnel converged on the scene along with agents form the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Greg Abbott, the Texas governor, said: "Our prayers are with all who were harmed by this evil act. Our thanks to law enforcement for their response."

Ted Cruz, the Texas Senator, said: "Keeping all harmed in Sutherland Springs in our prayers and grateful for our brave first responders on the scene."

A woman who lives about 10 minutes away from Sutherland Springs in Floresville and was monitoring the chaos on a police scanner and in Facebook community groups, said that everyone knows everyone in the sparsely populated county.

"This is horrific for our tiny little tight-knit town," said Alena Berlanga. "Everybody's going to be affected and everybody knows someone who's affected," she said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/05/multiple-casualties-texas-church-shooting/

sassy wrote:

Jules wrote:

Regarding this good Samaritan story. Call me cynical but when I first heard it, I immediately thought it's the sort of story the NRA would put out there as a damage limitation exercise. First there was one good Samaritan, now there are suddenly two, who allegedly challenged the shooter, chased him, shot him and so on.

It might well be a true story  and good on them if it is ..... but can ANY of it be proven in any way?  

I can't make out why they are calling him/them good samaritain/s.  Can you imagine a madman on the road with an assault weapon, being chased by vigilantes at 95mph, and what might have happened if there was a school bus/children crossing etc etc.  Absolutely pure luck that it didn't involve more deaths

It's Sunday. Have you ever been to Texas, and especially this part of Texas? We have 85 mph speed limits as it is, because this is a very desolate area. It's not like driving anywhere in the UK.

sassy wrote:

Jules wrote:

Regarding this good Samaritan story. Call me cynical but when I first heard it, I immediately thought it's the sort of story the NRA would put out there as a damage limitation exercise. First there was one good Samaritan, now there are suddenly two, who allegedly challenged the shooter, chased him, shot him and so on.

It might well be a true story  and good on them if it is ..... but can ANY of it be proven in any way?  

I can't make out why they are calling him/them good samaritain/s.  Can you imagine a madman on the road with an assault weapon, being chased by vigilantes at 95mph, and what might have happened if there was a school bus/children crossing etc etc.  Absolutely pure luck that it didn't involve more deaths

Don't be stupid... if he wasn't being busy trying to get away from those in pursuit, then he would have been able to have opened fire on countless other people...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

sassy wrote:

I can't make out why they are calling him/them good samaritain/s.  Can you imagine a madman on the road with an assault weapon, being chased by vigilantes at 95mph, and what might have happened if there was a school bus/children crossing etc etc.  Absolutely pure luck that it didn't involve more deaths

Don't be stupid... if he wasn't being busy trying to get away from those in pursuit, then he would have been able to have opened fire on countless other people...!

You completely missed Sass' point, tommy.  He wouldn't need to try to get away if guns hadn't been available in the first place.  We create this milieu in which gun violence is legitimate, and they wonder why there is gun violence.

Maddog wrote:...makes a collegiate "snowflake" cry, when presented with ideas they don't agree with, now make these shooting "snowflakes" go crazy when the results of their endeavors are not what they envisioned.

@ maddog: which of your three daughters carries a gun?  You go about condemning "snowflake" boys because they can also reason.  The dichotomy isn't between collegiate "young men" and our daughters, but between thought and stupidity.   Maybe if you worried less about calling people names and more about policies, we could teach all of our children how to handle problems.

BTW, I've raised three daughters, too.  Between my daughters and I, we have four doctorates, two masters degrees. a Fulbright, an MBA, two lawyers and a physician.  Not one of us carries a gun.  I guess we're just proud to be snowflakes.

smelly-bandit wrote:
the liberal hate mob must love it when a white lunatic does a run and gun

it allows them all to say "hey look Muslims are the only ones doing the killing so its ok"

but this isnt automatically a terror attack.

what was he motivation, what ideology does he follow??

a lunatic is just a lunatic, but a lunatic who kills in the name of something is a terrorist.

a Muslim can never just be a lunatic on a killing spree because whenever they kills its always in the name of islam

You make yourself sound more and more moronic with every idiotic post you make on here,  you vacuous little turd...

That killer was a southern Christian Bible study "teacher"..

You hatemongering fascist fool, SmellyFartBreathTroll.

smelly-bandit wrote:

gelico wrote:


according to his social media accounts he follows CNN (fake news) he is affiliated with UAF according to his voting details.

so he is an antifa/ UAF thug??

well, now we have his motivation, now we have him as a terrorist

a left wing liberal ashiest anti conservative terrorists who is no different to ISIS.

it would appear that the rednecks are not the only ones with mental disorders, the left seem to be pacing them neck and neck. But of course as with everything, some people will be happy to turn a blind eye on this

You really are the blind dumbfuck redneck, aren't you SmellyTwatBrain ???

CNN is a right wing capitalist news service...

The killer was right wing, southern redneck, military reject, white Christian, Bible-preaching, nutbag -- replace "southern redneck" with "ex-pat apartheid South African", and he sounds a lot like you Smelly' !

smelly-bandit wrote:guns are bad

guns are evil

Pictured: The two heroic locals who shot Texas gunman outside the church, chased him in their truck at 95mph and ran him off the road before he killed himself

wo quick-thinking locals have been hailed as heroes for stopping the man responsible for the worst ever mass shooting in Texas which left 26 dead.

Stephen Willeford, 55, confronted gunman Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, when he was leaving First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, wounding him, before he and Johnnie Langendorff, 27, chased him in a car after he fled.

During the 95mph car chase, Kelley lost control of his vehicle and ran off the road, before shooting himself in the head. He called his father shortly before to say he had been shot and didn't think he was going to make it.

Texas Department of Public Safety Regional Director Freeman Martin said Willeford, a keen biker, had 'grabbed his rifle and engaged the suspect'.

A local resident told DailyMail.com that Willeford, who attends a different church, was first alerted to the shooting when his daughter called him saying there was a man in body armor gunning down church goers during mass.

He grabbed his gun and headed down to confront the gunman.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052815/Hero-tackled-armed-shooter-left-church.html

More idiotic and overblown rumours, half-truths and outright lies...

Courtesy of SmellyFearMongerBumski...

gelico wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:the liberal hate mob must love it when a white lunatic does a run and gun

it allows them all to say "hey look Muslims are the only ones doing the killing so its ok"

but this isnt automatically a terror attack.

what was he motivation, what ideology does he follow??

according to his social media accounts he follows CNN (fake news) he is affiliated with UAF according to his voting details.

You're the one posting "fake news" reports on here, gelico...

It was a domestic dispute apparently.

Somebody who lives in New Braunfels is unlikely to have heard of UAF.

Cass wrote:Oh, thank God.  Nothing but a domestic squabble, settled by killing dozens of people. I feel so much safer knowing he wasn't shouting words in Arabic but was merely an American gun-owner using the guns the way the manufacturer intended.

Who cares?  Who cares why this asshole decided to take a gun and massacre these people?  Does it change anything?  Are we better off knowing why? Will the families be whole again?  No.  Forget knowing the "why".  It changes nothing.  Knowing why doesn't stop the next asshole with a gun.  You know what can change things?  Lawmakers that actually pass laws that make a difference.  Knowing "why" is useless.

This is an assault weapon in the hands of an angry unstable person issue. The underlying reason he snapped is irrelevant. I believe these events are planned and it’s just a matter of time before the plan is acted upon. What other weapon can kill dozens in a matter of seconds? What other weapon is made for the sole purpose of killing people? I know we will never have gun control in America in my lifetime but surely we can limit access to these weapons. Oh wait, the NRA controls our legislative process. Never mind. Carry on. Buy stock in gun manufacturing companies and pray you don’t get gunned down in church, at the movies, at a concert, at school, in a Walmart.

Thoughts and prayers to all. Oh wait. They don’t do a damn thing. But that’s all our spineless leaders will say while continuing to stuff their pockets full of money from the NRA and gun lobbyists. Asshats.

Some of the most insane scenes on the news last night, was watching those idiot redneck townsfolk holding their prayer meetings and all-night vigils...

At the same time, we saw the mayor, state officials and Trump/trumpettes claiming "not terrorist-related", "no problems with guns..", "no need for gun contro debates"..

And on here, we see the same 3 or 4 redneck-sympathisers spreading their pro-NRA nonsense --  where we even see Smelly labelling the killer as a lefty/liberal ISIS supporting snowflake --  the very opposite of the reality  !


And it becomming more and more obvious by the hour, that nothing will ever change across that southern/mid-West/Bible belt region, where their "right to bear arms" mantras reign supreme..

Come back in a hundred years, and nothing will have changed  --  nutters will still be shooting up the countryside and slaughtering countless innocents  --  ably protected by gun manufacturers, their NRA lobby arm, supplicant R/W politicians, and their braindead unthinking redneck constituents...

Ben Reilly wrote:
It was a domestic dispute apparently.

Many people seem to think of their church community as being like an an "extended family"...

So it's probably not much of a stretch to have that killer taking out his malice on the congregation..

Or to have local authorities claiming some disputes by the shooter with family members or friends as a "domestic dispute"  --  certainly helps to deflect attention away from gun control, NRA propaganda, political doubletalk, and the locals refusal to face up to a few uncomfortable 'home truths',  doesn't it  ?

Wolf wrote:And it becomming more and more obvious by the hour, that nothing will ever change across that southern/mid-West/Bible belt region, where their "right to bear arms" mantras reign supreme..

Come back in a hundred years, and nothing will have changed  --  nutters will still be shooting up the countryside and slaughtering countless innocents  --  ably protected by gun manufacturers, their NRA lobby arm, supplicant R/W politicians, and their braindead unthinking redneck constituents...

Right.  Nothing will ever change.

Do you see my motivation now?  I want to get on with the Pacific States of America, and cleave off that other part and leave it behind.  Because...nothing will ever change.

You've just arrived where I was at a couple of years ago.  Lift our heads above the fog and see reality.  Forget trying to argue for these policy matters.  Nothing will ever change.  

America is on the backslide of its existence.  When a president can stand up and say that Neo-Nazis and white supremacists are "good people", you know the train has left.
The PSA is a chance at new beginnings.

You say what you like, I'm still holding out hope that the American system will prevail in the end.

Ben Reilly wrote:You say what you like, I'm still holding out hope that the American system will prevail in the end.

You hope for a 'regular' life.  Don't you realize 'regular' is what has gone away?

What Trump has done is crack'd open the most basic cleavage in the America system.  The very cause of the Civil War...which, incidentally, has never healed.  White supremacy.  'We/they'.  American nationalism.  Those things we thought we had buried...they were always there, just under the surface.  The 'regular' in the American system was always crack'd...just under the topsoil.

But I don't lament.  I'm already on to new beginnings.  As Mary Queen of Scots used to say: "En ma Fin gît mon Commencement..." (In my end is my beginning.).

Jules wrote:

smelly bandit wrote:Don't need to be creative with you Quill

You're a blundering oaf, a buffoon.

What a shame that you feel the need to speak to a thoroughly decent and intelligent man like Quill in that manner. Consult a mirror before you throw words like that around.

You should take another look at your sig too, the first part. Your own sig describes you 100%, in fact I think you nailed it.

oh look

another groupie

the funny thing is that Chicago has an unstoppable murder rate

it also has one of the strictest gun laws anywhere in the US

god bless these two Americans heroes patriots through and through

'I'm no hero, my God gave me the skills to do what needed to be done': Brave gunman, 55, who stopped Texas shooter breaks his silence as he joins fellow hero for an emotional hug at church vigil

The neighbor gunman who stopped the Texas church shooter on Sunday morning has broken his silence to say through tears that he doesn't consider himself a hero, but that he was just doing what needed to be done.

Stepehen Willeford, 55, embraced Johnnie Langendorff, 27, in an emotional hug on Monday night at the vigil for the victims of the tragic shooting at First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs.

On Sunday after Willeford confronted Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, as he left the church, wounding him, before he and Langendorff chased him in a car as he fled.

During the 95mph car chase, Kelley lost control of his vehicle and ran off the road, before shooting himself in the head. He called his father shortly before to say he had been shot and didn't think he was going to make it.

Texas Department of Public Safety Regional Director Freeman Martin said Willeford ran out his home barefoot with his rifle and 'engaged the suspect'.

He has since been praised as a hero by churchgoers and police, but, speaking out for the first time since the morning tragedy, told KHBS he doesn't think of himself like that.

'I'm no hero. All I want to stress today, is the people at that church, they're friends of mine, they're family, and every time I heard a shot I knew that probably represented a life.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5056199/Hero-gunman-stopped-Texas-shooter-breaks-silence.html

what magnificent valour these two men showed

the ironic thing is that all the anti conservatives and anti gun nuts on here would have been running towards these two heroes

"save me save me" they would cry, before biting the hand that feeds.

left wing liberals really are vile are disgusting hypocrites.

smelly-bandit wrote:
the ironic thing is that all the anti conservatives and anti gun nuts on here would have been running towards these two heroes

"save me save me" they would cry, before biting the hand that feeds.

left wing liberals really are vile are disgusting hypocrites.  

You really don't have a fucking clue,   you spineless cowardly fascist shit-talker...

While most of us would be looking to help the wounded,  you,  you lying stupid dumbfuck yellow-bellied traitorous girlyman  --  you're the one who would be running for your worthless life..

A craven army-deserting trolling wastrel big mouthed twat like you --  you're the last person qualified to criticise anybody  !

smelly-bandit wrote:the funny thing is that Chicago has an unstoppable murder rate

it also has one of the strictest gun laws anywhere in the US

More outright lies from NewsFix's resident faux news spruiker...

More updated news today :

When the killer was kicked out of the USAF with a dishonourable discharge over 'domestic violence' incidents,  they had noted on his record that he should be tagged as being unfit to use, own or purchase firearms..

Contrary to their standard protocols, this information wasn't forwarded on to the FBI.  Which in turn, would have placed him on one of those national watch lists, for when gun dealers run their standard character checks on potential gun buyers..

Nice to know that the United States Air Force can be just as uselessly incompetent and uncaring as those everywhere else...

In a town of only 400 people, twenty-six people dying is a pretty big amount.
I'd imagine that everyone in that town either knew, or was related to, someone who died.

How awful for them all. That is so sad.

smelly-bandit wrote:the funny thing is that Chicago has an unstoppable murder rate

it also has one of the strictest gun laws anywhere in the US

Chicago does not have the strictest gun laws in the country. It’s time for gun lovers to stop spreading that lie.

A decade ago that was indeed a title Chicago wore proudly. We were the only major city that still had an ordinance banning residents from keeping a handgun in their home.

The handgun ban made us the primary target of the National Rifle Association and the Second Amendment Foundation, and in 2010 the U.S. Supreme Court forced Chicago to fall into line with the rest of the country.

Since then, the courts have peeled off so many layers of our once stellar gun ordinance that it’s barely recognizable. We’re still maneuvering to keep gun stores and shooting ranges from opening in the city limits. But the courts have ruled against us on that, too, so we know it’s just a matter of time.

Remember that old requirement that gun owners in Chicago register their firearms with the city and obtain a permit? Well, that’s gone too.

And thanks to the Illinois General Assembly, which was pressured by the federal courts to pass a concealed carry law in 2013, people can walk the streets of Chicago with a gun attached to their waist and another strapped to their ankle.

Sorry, gun lovers, your attempts to use Chicago as a prop to bolster your claims that gun control laws do nothing to curb gun violence just don’t hold up.

New York, in fact, has stricter gun laws on the books than Chicago. And guess what? Its homicide numbers are heading toward historic lows. Los Angeles has some pretty tough gun laws too. Its homicide numbers also pale compared with Chicago’s.

Those kinds of details don’t fit the conservative, pro-gun narrative, though. To use New York as a talking point, they’d have to admit that strict gun laws might actually have an impact on homicide rates.

We don’t make excuses for our ghastly homicide numbers in Chicago. With 762 people killed last year, no one has to remind us that we have a serious gun problem. We own it. And we have to do something about it.

But we are tired of Donald Trump and pro-gun advocates using our city to promote their political agenda.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-met-gun-control-chicago-dahleen-glanton-20171003-story.html

you cant simply take new york as the blueprints for what works

there are probably a whole host of other aspects that contribute to low homicide rates.

the fact is that stricter gun laws alone do not always translate into lower homicide rates,

but that doesnt matter to the frothing at the mouth lunatics on the liberal left who blindly push the narrative that taking away guns will solve everything

it wont, all it will do is leave the guns in the hands of the criminals who wiull make law abiding citizens lives hell

but again, the screeching liberal hatemob do not care about the law abiding, they care only for their hidesiou political narrative

keep crying sassy.

the NRA is not listening to you and neither is trumps great America.

''''You really don't have a fucking clue, you spineless cowardly fascist shit-talker...

While most of us would be looking to help the wounded, you, you lying stupid dumbfuck yellow-bellied traitorous girlyman -- you're the one who would be running for your worthless life..

A craven army-deserting trolling wastrel big mouthed twat like you -- you're the last person qualified to criticise anybody!''''

didin't smelly bandit get someones goat up just for calling quill a buffoon??

how very curious this all is

smelly-bandit wrote:
you cant simply take new york as the blueprints for what works
there are probably a whole host of other aspects that contribute to low homicide rates.

the fact is that stricter gun laws alone do not always translate into lower homicide rates,
but that doesnt matter to the frothing at the mouth lunatics on the liberal left who blindly push the narrative that taking away guns will solve everything

it wont, all it will do is leave the guns in the hands of the criminals who wiull make law abiding citizens lives hell
but again, the screeching liberal hatemob do not care about the law abiding, they care only for their hidesiou political narrative

keep crying sassy.
the NRA is not listening to you and neither is trumps great America.

You really are a pathetic liar, SmellyFascist'sFartBreath...

Your crap just keeps getting worse every time you post..

And you're obviously retermined to prove how clueless you are.

gelico wrote:
''''You really don't have a fucking clue,   you spineless cowardly fascist shit-talker...

While most of us would be looking to help the wounded,  you,  you lying stupid dumbfuck yellow-bellied traitorous girlyman  --  you're the one who would be running for your worthless life..

A craven army-deserting trolling wastrel big mouthed twat like you --  you're the last person qualified to criticise anybody!''''

didin't smelly bandit get someones goat up just for calling quill a buffoon??

how very curious this all is

Tell it to someone who cares...

You gormless fascist suckup twat..

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

gelico wrote:
''''You really don't have a fucking clue,   you spineless cowardly fascist shit-talker...

While most of us would be looking to help the wounded,  you,  you lying stupid dumbfuck yellow-bellied traitorous girlyman  --  you're the one who would be running for your worthless life..

A craven army-deserting trolling wastrel big mouthed twat like you --  you're the last person qualified to criticise anybody!''''

didin't smelly bandit get someones goat up just for calling quill a buffoon??

how very curious this all is

Tell it to someone who cares...

You gormless fascist suckup twat..

aw, settle down wetwipe

you seem to be the only one who is completely incapable of debating in a civil manner and you seem to be the only one who finds it necessary to constantly resort to giving out streams of abuse, just thought i'd give it a mention

are you proud? is your mummy proud?

gelico wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


Tell it to someone who cares...

You gormless fascist suckup twat..

aw, settle down wetwipe

you seem to be the only one who is completely incapable of debating in a civil manner and you seem to be the only one who finds it necessary to constantly resort to giving out streams of abuse, just thought i'd give it a mention

are you proud?  is your mummy proud?

+ 1

gelico wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

gelico wrote:
''''You really don't have a fucking clue,   you spineless cowardly fascist shit-talker...

While most of us would be looking to help the wounded,  you,  you lying stupid dumbfuck yellow-bellied traitorous girlyman  --  you're the one who would be running for your worthless life..

A craven army-deserting trolling wastrel big mouthed twat like you --  you're the last person qualified to criticise anybody!''''

didin't smelly bandit get someones goat up just for calling quill a buffoon??

how very curious this all is

Tell it to someone who cares...

You gormless fascist suckup twat..

aw, settle down wetwipe

you seem to be the only one who is completely incapable of debating in a civil manner and you seem to be the only one who finds it necessary to constantly resort to giving out streams of abuse, just thought i'd give it a mention

are you proud?  is your mummy proud?

thats IT wolfie...too much too often too for.....

have a few days down yonder

gelico wrote:

didin't smelly bandit get someones goat up

just for calling quill a buffoon??

No not just ''buffoon'' this was the full list of words used to describe Quill > >
''Blundering''
''Oaf''
''Buffoon''

I wasn't objecting to the abusiveness of the post, I was challenging the complete INACCURACY of that description.
That description is simply untrue. None of those words are applicable to him.
Quill is an articulate, eloquent man with a damn good brain plus a damn good heart.

Jules wrote:

gelico wrote:

didin't smelly bandit get someones goat up

just for calling quill a buffoon??

No not just ''bufoon'' this was the full list of words used to describe Quill > >
''Blundering''
''Oaf''
''Buffoon''

I wasn't objecting to the abusiveness of the post, I was challenging the complete INACCURACY of that description.
That description was simply untrue. None of those words are applicable to him.
Quill is an articulate, eloquent man with a damn good brain plus a damn good heart.

i dont disagree with you

i like quill

would be even better if he could stop with the posturing and pontificating at times and just give a straight answer to a straight question

he avoids questions like no one i've ever seen

still a good chap nevertheless

no harm done

Lol 
Ferry 'nuff.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

gelico wrote:
''''You really don't have a fucking clue,   you spineless cowardly fascist shit-talker...

While most of us would be looking to help the wounded,  you,  you lying stupid dumbfuck yellow-bellied traitorous girlyman  --  you're the one who would be running for your worthless life..

A craven army-deserting trolling wastrel big mouthed twat like you --  you're the last person qualified to criticise anybody!''''

didin't smelly bandit get someones goat up just for calling quill a buffoon??

how very curious this all is

Tell it to someone who cares...

You gormless fascist suckup twat..

How old are you?

Original Quill wrote:

Wolf wrote:And it becomming more and more obvious by the hour, that nothing will ever change across that southern/mid-West/Bible belt region, where their "right to bear arms" mantras reign supreme..

Come back in a hundred years, and nothing will have changed  --  nutters will still be shooting up the countryside and slaughtering countless innocents  --  ably protected by gun manufacturers, their NRA lobby arm, supplicant R/W politicians, and their braindead unthinking redneck constituents...

Right.  Nothing will ever change.

Do you see my motivation now?  I want to get on with the Pacific States of America, and cleave off that other part and leave it behind.  Because...nothing will ever change.

You've just arrived where I was at a couple of years ago.  Lift our heads above the fog and see reality.  Forget trying to argue for these policy matters.  Nothing will ever change.  

America is on the backslide of its existence.  When a president can stand up and say that Neo-Nazis and white supremacists are "good people", you know the train has left.
The PSA is a chance at new beginnings.

BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Jules wrote:

gelico wrote:

didin't smelly bandit get someones goat up

just for calling quill a buffoon??

No not just ''buffoon'' this was the full list of words used to describe Quill > >
''Blundering''
''Oaf''
''Buffoon''

I wasn't objecting to the abusiveness of the post, I was challenging the complete INACCURACY of that description.
That description is simply untrue. None of those words are applicable to him.
Quill is an articulate, eloquent man with a damn good brain plus a damn good heart.

sounds like youre a fan

Lord Foul wrote:

gelico wrote:


aw, settle down wetwipe

you seem to be the only one who is completely incapable of debating in a civil manner and you seem to be the only one who finds it necessary to constantly resort to giving out streams of abuse, just thought i'd give it a mention

are you proud?  is your mummy proud?

thats IT wolfie...too much too often too for.....

have a few days down yonder

I have been increasingly concerned about gelico's filth lately.  

I expect that gelico will be basemented in equal proportion to Wolf?

Due process requires that mutual affraing requires mutual punishment.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Don't be stupid... if he wasn't being busy trying to get away from those in pursuit, then he would have been able to have opened fire on countless other people...!

You completely missed Sass' point, tommy.  He wouldn't need to try to get away if guns hadn't been available in the first place.  We create this milieu in which gun violence is legitimate, and they wonder why there is gun violence.

Maddog wrote:...makes a collegiate "snowflake" cry, when presented with ideas they don't agree with, now make these shooting "snowflakes" go crazy when the results of their endeavors are not what they envisioned.

@ maddog: which of your three daughters carries a gun?  You go about condemning "snowflake" boys because they can also reason.  The dichotomy isn't between collegiate "young men" and our daughters, but between thought and stupidity.   Maybe if you worried less about calling people names and more about policies, we could teach all of our children how to handle problems.

BTW, I've raised three daughters, too.  Between my daughters and I, we have four doctorates, two masters degrees. a Fulbright, an MBA, two lawyers and a physician.  Not one of us carries a gun.  I guess we're just proud to be snowflakes.

Lets take my entire post, instead of picking a small part of it, and using it out of context.

The US has more guns than it has ever had. We have more people carrying guns, than we have had in anyone on here's lifetime. The murder rate is at historic lows. You are far safer in the US, than in at least 60 years. However, one thing has changed. The number of mass shootings. They are going up. There has to be something going on mentally in this country. Now, for the most part, these are young males (the Vegas shooter was an outlier). Somewhere along the way, we have raised a crop of young men, that don't know how to deal with the fact that life can suck at times. They don't realize, that trophies are not awarded for participation in the real world. They have not learned how to cope with failure, because parents have protected them from failure. The same mentality and thought process that makes a collegiate "snowflake" cry, when presented with ideas they don't agree with, now make these shooting "snowflakes" go crazy when the results of their endeavors are not what they envisioned. They stomp their feet, hold their breath, and declare that life is not fair and they want to do something about it.

This may sound sexist, but I don't care. As a man who has raised 3 daughters to be twice the man of most men, it's time we start raising boys to be men again in this country.

As for my daughters, none of them carry on their person. One lives in a house with numerous guns, all of them have access to guns and all of them are proficient with them. None of that really matters.

My point was, that young men are killing people in far smaller numbers than they used to, with the excepting of these spree killings. My theory is that society has created a generation of young men that can't cope well and they lash out. I used the term "snowflake" in quotes as I don't really like the term, but in this case I was using it to describe young men, of all political persuasions (not just liberals), who have a hard time coping with the challenges of life.

Perhaps you have a better explanation as to why America is far less violent than it was 20 years ago, in all areas, except spree killings?

Original Quill wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

thats IT wolfie...too much too often too for.....

have a few days down yonder

I have been increasingly concerned about gelico's filth lately.  

hahahahaha

so apart from this one 'ickle comment in response to his constant tirades of filthy garbage,,,,,what else is it I've said that you are you so concerned about. please, do tell,,,,

alternatively,,,,,you could just grow up

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

More updated news today :

When the killer was kicked out of the USAF with a dishonourable discharge over 'domestic violence' incidents,  they had noted on his record that he should be tagged as being unfit to use, own or purchase firearms..

Contrary to their standard protocols, this information wasn't forwarded on to the FBI.  Which in turn, would have placed him on one of those national watch lists, for when gun dealers run their standard character checks on potential gun buyers..

Nice to know that the United States Air Force can be just as uselessly incompetent and uncaring as those everywhere else...

Yes, government is often incompetent. Even when something is illegal, it's not uncommon for the government to screw it up.

But more laws will help?

sassy wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:the funny thing is that Chicago has an unstoppable murder rate

it also has one of the strictest gun laws anywhere in the US

Chicago does not have the strictest gun laws in the country. It’s time for gun lovers to stop spreading that lie.

A decade ago that was indeed a title Chicago wore proudly. We were the only major city that still had an ordinance banning residents from keeping a handgun in their home.

The handgun ban made us the primary target of the National Rifle Association and the Second Amendment Foundation, and in 2010 the U.S. Supreme Court forced Chicago to fall into line with the rest of the country.

Since then, the courts have peeled off so many layers of our once stellar gun ordinance that it’s barely recognizable. We’re still maneuvering to keep gun stores and shooting ranges from opening in the city limits. But the courts have ruled against us on that, too, so we know it’s just a matter of time.

Remember that old requirement that gun owners in Chicago register their firearms with the city and obtain a permit? Well, that’s gone too.

And thanks to the Illinois General Assembly, which was pressured by the federal courts to pass a concealed carry law in 2013, people can walk the streets of Chicago with a gun attached to their waist and another strapped to their ankle.

Sorry, gun lovers, your attempts to use Chicago as a prop to bolster your claims that gun control laws do nothing to curb gun violence just don’t hold up.

New York, in fact, has stricter gun laws on the books than Chicago. And guess what? Its homicide numbers are heading toward historic lows. Los Angeles has some pretty tough gun laws too. Its homicide numbers also pale compared with Chicago’s.

Those kinds of details don’t fit the conservative, pro-gun narrative, though. To use New York as a talking point, they’d have to admit that strict gun laws might actually have an impact on homicide rates.

We don’t make excuses for our ghastly homicide numbers in Chicago. With 762 people killed last year, no one has to remind us that we have a serious gun problem. We own it. And we have to do something about it.

But we are tired of Donald Trump and pro-gun advocates using our city to promote their political agenda.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-met-gun-control-chicago-dahleen-glanton-20171003-story.html

And quiet, little New Hampshire has some of the least restrictive gun laws, and the lowest murder rates. There is no correlation between gun laws, and murder rates in the US.

smelly-bandit wrote:

Jules wrote:


No not just ''buffoon'' this was the full list of words used to describe Quill > >
''Blundering''
''Oaf''
''Buffoon''

I wasn't objecting to the abusiveness of the post, I was challenging the complete INACCURACY of that description.
That description is simply untrue. None of those words are applicable to him.
Quill is an articulate, eloquent man with a damn good brain plus a damn good heart.

sounds like youre a fan

Yes, if you like.
You also called me a groupie in another post. No, a groupie is just an airhead who blindly agrees with everything their hero says.
Actually I was replying to someone in that post you've just quoted.
I will reply to your groupie accusation shortly.

Original Quill wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

thats IT wolfie...too much too often too for.....

have a few days down yonder

I have been increasingly concerned about gelico's filth lately.  

I expect that gelico will be basemented in equal proportion to Wolf?

Due process requires that mutual affraing requires mutual punishment.

well im concerned about your rudeness quill

would you like a cell next to gelico???

Jules wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

sounds like youre a fan

Yes, if you like.
You also called me a groupie in another post. No, a groupie is just an airhead who blindly agrees with everything their hero says.
Actually I was replying to someone in that post you've just quoted.
I will reply to your groupie accusation shortly.

im on the edge of my seat

Original Quill wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

thats IT wolfie...too much too often too for.....

have a few days down yonder

I have been increasingly concerned about gelico's filth lately.  

I expect that gelico will be basemented in equal proportion to Wolf?

Due process requires that mutual affraing requires mutual punishment.

Gelico's filth?
I haven't seen that, I see a lot of humour when she bothers to reply to your mate Wolf, who has added her to his regular list of posters who he likes to group together en masse and spew insults at.

Not sure what a wet wipe is in the the states....here its a moistened piece of floppy cloth used to wipe a toddlers mess up.
Its not a filthy name, it is imo a very apt one.  

Maddog wrote:My point was, that young men are killing people in far smaller numbers than they used to, with the excepting of these spree killings. My theory is that society has created a generation of young men that can't cope well and they lash out. I used the term "snowflake" in quotes as I don't really like the term, but in this case I was using it to describe young men, of all political persuasions (not just liberals), who have a hard time coping with the challenges of life.

Perhaps you have a better explanation as to why America is far less violent than it was 20 years ago, in all areas, except spree killings?

What are "spree killings"? Do you mean terrorist killings? Let’s not beat around the bush. Terrorist killings are acts intended to communicate by violence, an outrage over some issue, be it race or religion/ethnic, or reaction thereto.

Your previous post reflects the kind of undisciplined thinking that leads to the Trump style of political intercourse and, perhaps, these kinds of mass killings: loose definitions and vague associations, taken to extreme. After all, Trump gave a certain element permission to turn disagreement into violence...and he'll pay the attorney fees.

I doubt that these killings fall along sexist lines. I also doubt that they fall on education lines, or that those with university degrees tend to grab an AR-16 and run around shooting people. To the contrary, the shooters tend to be less educated, more influenced by southern values than anything.

These terrorist acts are more the result of intolerance, and a sense of inefficacy, than anything. They seem to be the same sentiments coming out of the Trump gang, frankly. There is a certain indignation that they cannot be superior to blacks and Hispanics. Then there is outrage toward Jews and educated people, because their sense of moderation puts a damper upon them. They are impatient because, intellectually, they are outmatched...others are quicker and deeper thinkers, hence the frustrated-child option to violence. (Perhaps there's your dislike for people with college educations.) And now, finally, they are being given permission to go shoot up a church, or whatever.

My dislike for your use of jingos, cliches and catch-phrases (eg, "snowflake") is that they are the typical RW discussion tactic, designed more to taunt than resolve. This is why I firmly believe that RW'ers are responsible for the disunity in this nation...at the bottom, they don't really want to resolve. Like Trump, they want to dictate. But working from the bottom, and lacking an educated/thoughtful understanding of politics (anti-Washington), they throw up their hands and go get an automatic weapon. The violence we saw at Trump rallies during the campaign, was just a lesser form of shooting up a church.

smelly-bandit wrote:

Jules wrote:
Yes, if you like.
You also called me a groupie in another post. No, a groupie is just an airhead who blindly agrees with everything their hero says.
Actually I was replying to someone in that post you've just quoted.
I will reply to your groupie accusation shortly.

im on the edge of my seat

Oh, nothing exciting, I just want to remind you what a true groupie is, that's all.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:My point was, that young men are killing people in far smaller numbers than they used to, with the excepting of these spree killings. My theory is that society has created a generation of young men that can't cope well and they lash out. I used the term "snowflake" in quotes as I don't really like the term, but in this case I was using it to describe young men, of all political persuasions (not just liberals), who have a hard time coping with the challenges of life.

Perhaps you have a better explanation as to why America is far less violent than it was 20 years ago, in all areas, except spree killings?

What are "spree killings"?  Do you mean terrorist killings?  Let’s not beat around the bush.  Terrorist killings are acts intended to communicate by violence, an outrage over some issue, be it race or religion/ethnic, or reaction thereto.

Your previous post reflects the kind of undisciplined thinking that leads to the Trump style of political intercourse and, perhaps, these kinds of mass killings: loose definitions and vague associations, taken to extreme.  After all, Trump gave a certain element permission to turn disagreement into violence...and he'll pay the attorney fees.

I doubt that these killings fall along sexist lines.  I also doubt that they fall on education lines, or that those with university degrees tend to grab an AR-16 and run around shooting people.  To the contrary, the shooters tend to be less educated, more influenced by southern values than anything.

These terrorist acts are more the result of intolerance, and a sense of inefficacy, than anything.  They seem to be the same sentiments coming out of the Trump gang, frankly.  There is a certain indignation that they cannot be superior to blacks and Hispanics.  Then there is outrage toward Jews and educated people, because their sense of moderation puts a damper upon them.  They are impatient because, intellectually, they are outmatched...others are quicker and deeper thinkers, hence the frustrated-child option to violence. (Perhaps there's your dislike for people with college educations.)  And now, finally, they are being given permission to go shoot up a church, or whatever.

My dislike for your use of jingos, cliches and catch-phrases (eg, "snowflake") is that they are the typical RW discussion tactic, designed more to taunt than resolve.  This is why I firmly believe that RW'ers are responsible for the disunity in this nation...at the bottom, they don't really want to resolve.  Like Trump, they want to dictate.  But working from the bottom, and lacking an educated/thoughtful understanding of politics (anti-Washington), they throw up their hands and go get an automatic weapon.  The violence we saw at Trump rallies during the campaign, was just a lesser form of shooting up a church.

Why the increase during the past 15 years or so, along with the decrease in the murder rate?

smelly-bandit wrote:

Jules wrote:

What a shame that you feel the need to speak to a thoroughly decent and intelligent man like Quill in that manner. Consult a mirror before you throw words like that around.

You should take another look at your sig too, the first part. Your own sig describes you 100%, in fact I think you nailed it.

oh look

another groupie

Actually I don't say much to Quill and I've never given out any reward points to him (or to anyone else).
You're the one who has admirers following you around, agreeing with whatever you say and handing you reward points >

''I hate poor people and lefties and labour voters and love apartheid" .... I agree with you, SB, have a greenie,
"The sky is green, grass is blue, the sea is red, birds swim and fish fly" .. I agree with you, SB, have a greenie,
''Trump is the bestest, nicest, cleverest president ever'' .... I agree with you, SB, have a greenie



Now, Mr Bandit THAT'S ↑↑↑ that's my definition of a fking groupie.
So next time, look closer to home before you start flinging ironic accusations like that around.

Jules wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

oh look

another groupie

Actually I don't say much to Quill and I've never given out any reward points to him (or to anyone else).
You're the one who has admirers following you around, agreeing with whatever you say and handing you reward points >

''I hate poor people and lefties and labour voters and love apartheid" .... I agree with you, SB, have a greenie,
"The sky is green, grass is blue, the sea is red, birds swim and fish fly" .. I agree with you, SB, have a greenie,
''Trump is the bestest, nicest, cleverest president ever'' .... I agree with you, SB, have a greenie



Now, Mr Bandit THAT'S ↑↑↑ that's my definition of a fking groupie.
So next time, look closer to home before you start flinging ironic accusations like that around.

a king has to have subjects

no point being the much loved ruler of your own lunchbox now is there??