Religion is man-made, not God-made and beware only, the Religious Blind Mice

First topic message reminder :

This has always been my problem with it.

I have no problem with religion as it brings people together, in a family-type unit and they pray to their "father".

Religion doesn't destroy people or lives anymore than any other inanimate object does, until it gets in the wrong hands. People can find comfort in coming together and reading from their books; it's a community after all.

It only goes wrong when people become fanatical and so tunnel-visioned that they can't see beyond their scripts and their faith. When they cast God as in imposing force and a great dictator they do their own "father" an injustice.

They become religious blind mice.

Why do people have to question what other's believe? If a human wants to hold dear, some words that warm his soul and then share them with others who want to fill their souls with those words like a warm blanket, then who are we to judge?

As long as the religious who walk on the earth know that religion was made as a comfort club for the like-minded, what is the harm?


God didn't make religion. He doesn't need worship or promises or words set in stone to be carried like a boulder on your shoulder. He doesn't need undying love or the loyalty of a man acting like a lovesick new puppy.
He doesn't need any more blind mice.
He doesn't need, full-stop.

If he created you he wants you to be you. A you, that you created and sculpted and gave birth to. He trusts you to make the right choices and use the free will that he gave you to live and walk the path you choose.


God doesn't make religion; man makes religion in his own image.

Here's my poem (turned into a rock song) about religion and religious blind mice:

What was the fuss all about?
Couldn't help but notice there was nothing about you
A big fat ego in an empty shell
You blow your own trumpet and you blow it well
A little red book clutched to your heart, emphasising your love of God
Over and over and over

You ain't unique and you ain't exceptional
Speaking in tongues try and work a miracle
Walk on water then turn it to wine
Script that tries to twist your mind
Robots are what you got, well here's a sheep that strayed the flock
Over and over and over

Your words are candy floss they don't fill me up and I've had enough now
Back to the sidelines, get back to the sidelines
Your words are candyfloss, get on your cross coz I've had enough now
Oh I've had enough now...


I think God would like it

I don't really see the point in your contorted attempt to make science seem like a religion here veya, that wasn't the point of my definition, and in a previous thread you yourself highlighted the major differences between the two.

Eilzel wrote:I don't really see the point in your contorted attempt to make science seem like a religion here veya, that wasn't the point of my definition, and in a previous thread you yourself highlighted the major differences between the two.

Science is a list of things but that list of things is also my religious belief. unless you are now denying me my religious choice, Science is a Religions because it is part of MY religion. It is part of your too you just don't want to admit it Or don't want to admit to having faith in anything.

If you want to be believe something else that is fine.... but then you'd be wrong
If you believe your beliefs are not faith then your a fool.
CAN you identify What you believe? Or are you just at the point where you see Christianity as wrong it is a problem and would prefer to keep talking about the problem, rather than look for a solution.


Answer the questions yourself.
Do you have an organized collection of beliefs? YES, you do everyone does, just varying levels of organization and co-believers
Do you have a world view that relates to humanity and an order of existence? YES you do, clearly you believe in humanism and disagree with the view of people like HF Because your World view Opposes theirs
Does your religion have a narrative? Equality is a narrative, you may not think of it as religion but it is a moral guide.
Do you recognize any symbols?
Do you have any sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning and origin of life or the universe? Evolution maybe?

BETTER yet tell us what you believe?
explain the meaning and origin of life or the universe.... in your opinion, I am not going to ask you to prove it but i my ask what makes you lean in that direction
Debate it, the thread is Religion is MAN MADE, so you're a man MAKE SOME Religion, it really is not that hard because science gives you a really good foundation to be more correct than Abrahamism from the start.
BUT the science of the meaning and origin of life or the universe is also debated so give us your personal opinion on which version is most probable

Eilzel I do not know why you bother and why I have him on ignore as he invents nonsense to things not even stated. There are many sciences that people study and look to advance society and he confused this with religion, when then he is adding science to his religion and making it part of his faith which does not mean everyone else has to but stupidly makes science religious. In other words it has been men attempting to combine the two and based off them understanding science, not the religion itself understanding science. In other words the interpretation of men.. Its claiming if a scientific part maybe right then the religious aspect is right, which is absurd. He poorly tries to use science to claim his beliefs are real, which is the real sign of a wackadoodle. He ails to grasp I can be wrong on science as science is for ever trying to find answers. His though hinges on his faith being correct and if its wrong then that is it for his belief system. My life is not going to change because science again has proven something previously thought to be correct as wrong. If tree's were found to have intelligence, would it change my life? Not really, why would it, I might be more sympathetic to tree's but my need to believe in whether they did or not would have no bearing on me.
You are flogging a dead horse with this imbecile as his views are illogical and make utterly no sense.

Belatucadros wrote:Eilzel I do not know why you bother and why I have him on ignore as he invents nonsense to things not even stated. There are many sciences that people study and look to advance society and he confused this with religion, when then he is adding science to his religion and making it part of his faith which does not mean everyone else has to but stupidly makes science religious. In other words it has been men attempting to combine the two and based off them understanding science, not the religion itself understanding science. In other words the interpretation of men.. Its claiming if a scientific part maybe right then the religious aspect is right, which is absurd. He poorly tries to use science to claim his beliefs are real, which is the real sign of a wackadoodle. He ails to grasp I can be wrong on science as science is for ever trying to find answers. His though hinges on his faith being correct and if its wrong then that is it for his belief system. My life is not going to change because science again has proven something previously thought to be correct as wrong. If tree's were found to have intelligence, would it change my life? Not really, why would it, I might be more sympathetic to tree's but my need to believe in whether they did or not would have no bearing on me.
You are flogging a dead horse with this imbecile as his views are illogical and make utterly no sense.

You are thick, you really need to stop engaging in theology or philosophy it is obviously beyond your mental capacity.
Why do you not understand that things can be more than one thing? there is as many religions as there is people on the planet.
You also STILL do not understand Science at all!!! Fuck me Science is going to prove itself wrong, did you really just post that?        NO it will not!! it will NEVER EVER prove itself Wrong because what has been Proven correct and is scientific law is CORRECT.  What is not Law is Not proven so science never proved it correct in order to prove wrong because is said this is possible NOT this is correct.

Science is a list of things, that list can belong to a religion
if you want to believe the correct religion then BY definition your religion has to include Science because that is correct.

Please show where i said i was right in any of any thread.. you cant because I never did I said IF YOU WANT TO BE RIGHT (and I do) then you need to include science (so I Do, Just like the Dala Lama says too), but Science has answered less than 1% of the possible questions so the rest is free to hypothesize.



Same question to you
IN YOUR OPINION what is the meaning and origin of life or the universe?
If you don't have an opinion WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP POSTING ABOUT YOUR LACK OF OPINION????
Great You and Les have no opinion, that's fine..
but stop acting like you are right, because whoever is right will have at least Answered Something. you have a blank exam paper in front of you only one question on it and you want to hand it in blank? again you can but your answer on you exam is guaranteed to get the same mark as HF... zero

And don't you dare say for a second your belief in science is anything but faith.. you make me sad, sad that even those that can see that Abrahamism is bullshit cannot grasp the functionality of science and logic.. it is true that the vast majority of humans are just chattering parrots repeating what they think they heard  without actually comprehending what it was they were told.            

veya_victaous wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I don't really see the point in your contorted attempt to make science seem like a religion here veya, that wasn't the point of my definition, and in a previous thread you yourself highlighted the major differences between the two.

Science is a list of things but that list of things is also my religious belief. unless you are now denying me my religious choice, Science is a Religions because it is part of MY religion. It is part of your too you just don't want to admit it Or don't want to admit to having faith in anything.

If you want to be believe something else that is fine.... but then you'd be wrong  
If you believe your beliefs are not faith then your a fool.  
CAN you identify What you believe?  Or are you just at the point where you see Christianity as wrong it is a problem and would prefer to keep talking about the problem, rather than look for a solution.


Answer the questions yourself.
Do you have an organized collection of beliefs?  YES, you do everyone does, just varying levels of organization and co-believers
Do you have a world view that relates to humanity and an order of existence? YES you do, clearly you believe in humanism and disagree with the view of people like HF Because your World view Opposes theirs
Does your religion have a narrative?  Equality is a narrative, you may not think of it as religion but it is a moral guide.
Do you recognize any symbols?
Do you have any sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning and origin of life or the universe? Evolution maybe?

BETTER yet tell us what you believe?
explain the meaning and origin of life or the universe.... in your opinion, I am not going to ask you to prove it but i my ask what makes you lean in that direction
Debate it, the thread is Religion is MAN MADE, so you're a man MAKE SOME Religion, it really is not that hard because science gives you a really good foundation to be more correct than Abrahamism from the start.
BUT the science of the meaning and origin of life or the universe is also debated so give us your personal opinion on which version is most probable

^I will always try didge, besides, I like veya, he is a great debate-contortionist

1. Do I have an organized collection of Beliefs? NO. I believe certain things yes. But it is not a collection, and some beliefs waver with further information or change entirely. They certainly aren't organized. Evolution, equality, education etc are all things I 'believe' in, but they are independent from one another. There is no organized canon as you get with things like the Bible or Koran.

2. Do you have a world view that relates to humanity and an order of existence? NO. I don't really believe anything about the 'order' of existence. Such ideas are always man made. We have evolved into a particular state. Now I do have faith that humanity is capable of innate goodness, but that is not a system I rigidly live my own life by.

3. Does your religion have a narrative? NO. Equality and science are not really connected (directly). You could follow science and be a racial supremacist and ardent homophobe (taking an ultra simplistic and animalistic Darwinian view). So now you are conflating two things, science and belief in equal rights- religion is one thing, one set of organized beliefs, you would do well to remember that when mixing things up.

4. Do you recognize any symbols? No attempt to twist this in I see...

5. Do you have any sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning and origin of life or the universe? NO. There is nothing sacred about evolution or BBT. If the BBT is one day disproved then bang it goes ( ). The fact of evolution isn't the same as a sacred history we get in religious texts- it is just a fact of life. People are accept it or remain ignorant. There is nothing ignorant about not accepting any religious narratives. You know this, so stop pressing silly points.

What do I believe? Well all kinds of things. I believe education is the best way of solving most social problems, I believe in evolution because its a proven fact, I believe science is a better cure for most problems than religion is, I don't know how the universe came to exist but the BBT seems the most likely origin, I believe in the innate goodness of humanity and of course equality for all people. I also believe frakking to be a current major threat to the UK.

Are these things linked? Not really. Are they organized? Definitely not. Are any of them sacred? Perhaps equality but even that has limits.

I said religion is man made, I didn't say I wanted to make one. The moment beliefs sets become organized and fixed and 'sacred' to point questioning them becomes an issue is where the poisonous threat of 'religion' lurks its head. It doesn't have to be religion, Maoist China went that way- but the cult of Mao was almost as much a religion anyway. In any case, I think I've pretty resolutely showed why my beliefs do NOT qualify as a religion.

You see this is why Veya you are an idiot.
What does it matter what the origin of life is?
Does it effect my life?
No, you seem to think my life cannot exist or carry on without knowing or understanding. It does not, nor ill it ever need to. If science finds an answer all well and good, but again it is not going to change my life you utter idiot. This is why you need to be evaluated, because you are a complete wackadoodle, that needs sectioning.

Lets take your idiotic view that the Sun is a God, as if it has intelligence and is mortal. What effect on my life would this have, if it was true that the Sun was a living entity?
Nothing, its not going to change my view on anything. For one it is unstable and whilst it may directly sustain my life it is also unstable and for the fact the earths defenses keep it from killing me. Is my need to believe here paramount to my existence? No, I have never believed the Sun is a God and have not suffered any problems for doing so. I am going to later die, the sun is going to have no bearing on this also, hence why you are a complete cardboard cutout I do not need to worship this or allow it to enter my thoughts at any point of the day, because if disaster comes, then so be it, there is little I can do about it. Thus such a belief in such a being is a non-starter and of no consequence to my life or would it effect my life, hence why your reasoning is at best from the mental age of a 3 year old.

The fuckwit Dala Lamais going off science to make his religion fit, that is all he is doing, he thus interpreting to make his religion more scientific friendly. It does not mean they are compatible, he is just making them compatible through his interpretations.
Again any belief I have on science is what is testable, even where it can be wrong I take the view and alway as have done that if my view is wrong I accept that, my life and its meaning are not bound by the need to believe in them. Which is why you are an idiot. The same cannot be said for any religion, because if any aspect of a religion is proved wrong, then the whole belief system is proved wrong. I do not have a belief system centered around science, as science is just a means of advancing knowledge and technology. Science can be wrong and is wrong using science. It actively seeks to proves itself wrong also, thus science is not bound by religious constraints, which is why again you are a complete idiot. I can do many of these testable scientific concepts and yet some things are indisputable facts.

So now run along you ignorant immature child, because this is why I have you on ignore because you are a complete deranged loon.
So crawl away you pathetic child and stop talking shit, because you are arguing such illogical nonsense that none of us atheists follow.

Good Eilzel, as I say, this is why I have him on ignore, he fails to rationalize and invents nonsense, am off to work, so catch you later.

Interesting thread. Bumped to read again.