Religion is man-made, not God-made and beware only, the Religious Blind Mice

First topic message reminder :

This has always been my problem with it.

I have no problem with religion as it brings people together, in a family-type unit and they pray to their "father".

Religion doesn't destroy people or lives anymore than any other inanimate object does, until it gets in the wrong hands. People can find comfort in coming together and reading from their books; it's a community after all.

It only goes wrong when people become fanatical and so tunnel-visioned that they can't see beyond their scripts and their faith. When they cast God as in imposing force and a great dictator they do their own "father" an injustice.

They become religious blind mice.

Why do people have to question what other's believe? If a human wants to hold dear, some words that warm his soul and then share them with others who want to fill their souls with those words like a warm blanket, then who are we to judge?

As long as the religious who walk on the earth know that religion was made as a comfort club for the like-minded, what is the harm?


God didn't make religion. He doesn't need worship or promises or words set in stone to be carried like a boulder on your shoulder. He doesn't need undying love or the loyalty of a man acting like a lovesick new puppy.
He doesn't need any more blind mice.
He doesn't need, full-stop.

If he created you he wants you to be you. A you, that you created and sculpted and gave birth to. He trusts you to make the right choices and use the free will that he gave you to live and walk the path you choose.


God doesn't make religion; man makes religion in his own image.

Here's my poem (turned into a rock song) about religion and religious blind mice:

What was the fuss all about?
Couldn't help but notice there was nothing about you
A big fat ego in an empty shell
You blow your own trumpet and you blow it well
A little red book clutched to your heart, emphasising your love of God
Over and over and over

You ain't unique and you ain't exceptional
Speaking in tongues try and work a miracle
Walk on water then turn it to wine
Script that tries to twist your mind
Robots are what you got, well here's a sheep that strayed the flock
Over and over and over

Your words are candy floss they don't fill me up and I've had enough now
Back to the sidelines, get back to the sidelines
Your words are candyfloss, get on your cross coz I've had enough now
Oh I've had enough now...


I think God would like it

it's good that they now know they are wrong about child baptism...

For the record I mentioned the poison of religion on the ISIS thread, had I said the same of Christianity you'd have been whinging. Do you deliberately ignore attacks on Islam?

go to a Muslim country and make your gay habits known and criticise islam, perhaps you could post some photo's of the outcome...lol

Eilzel wrote:I am but really what more can I say?

And this is a US forum as much as a UK one, the admin is a Texan lol and I also mentioned the UK.

But you know that there are Christians on here, so you must know that this constant barrage of threads about how awful religion is will get personal at some point. It's no good you sitting there saying you're only criticising the religion and not the people, but Christians do get mocked on here. You wouldn't like it if there were five or six people constantly going on about something you believed in and there was a barrage of mockery.

Like I said, Ben once said that it wasn't fair on SM that some people were constantly going on about Islam, but he doesn't apply that to Christians.

Why don't you go and criticise Islam there HF? Stupid man.

Eilzel wrote:For the record I mentioned the poison of religion on the ISIS thread, had I said the same of Christianity you'd have been whinging. Do you deliberately ignore attacks on Islam?

If you read my posts properly, you would see I do not. I don't address it as much because I'm not a Muslim I guess, but I do speak out. I disagreed with HF on that very thread.

You seem very chilled about the situation with ISIS really.

Eilzel wrote:Why don't you go and criticise Islam there HF? Stupid man.

awww is the lady boy owner all scared...lol..

What reaction do you expect on a forum exactly?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I am but really what more can I say?

And this is a US forum as much as a UK one, the admin is a Texan lol and I also mentioned the UK.

But you know that there are Christians on here, so you must know that this constant barrage of threads about how awful religion is will get personal at some point. It's no good you sitting there saying you're only criticising the religion and not the people, but Christians do get mocked on here. You wouldn't like it if there were five or six people constantly going on about something you believed in and there was a barrage of mockery.

Like I said, Ben once said that it wasn't fair on SM that some people were constantly going on about Islam, but he doesn't apply that to Christians.

Actually he faces such threads all the time on another forum and was the norm before with countless Muslim threads and homosexual threads and on other forums. It was and is a daily norm and Eilzel rises to the challenge, he does not moan as you have about the threads. He will speak out against pointless derogatory insults to homosexuals and rightly so because they is directly attacking people. The difference on the Muslim threads was they were presented to argue to fear Muslims, as if they are followed the same beliefs. By your very belief, you automatically dismiss the beliefs of others, by just believing. That is your choice not to believe and say why those religious to you are wrong, because you view yours as right. Again what is being criticized is bad points in religions, where they effect the well being and equality of others. Being critical of bad aspects within a faith , has helped there be Christians like yourself today, who only follow the New Testament. Without criticism of the faith, that would not have happened. Even Christians are critical of the different Christian interpretations. This is a debate forum, and such threads garner lots of interesting debate. HF is always abusive in regards to homosexuals and always has been. It would make no difference if none of these Christian threads had been posted.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:For the record I mentioned the poison of religion on the ISIS thread, had I said the same of Christianity you'd have been whinging. Do you deliberately ignore attacks on Islam?

If you read my posts properly, you would see I do not. I don't address it as much because I'm not a Muslim I guess, but I do speak out. I disagreed with HF on that very thread.

You seem very chilled about the situation with ISIS really.

it will all change if we get full sharia here, then they might remember just how tolerant Christians are...lol

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Why don't you go and criticise Islam there HF? Stupid man.

awww is the lady boy owner all scared...lol..

Grow the fuck up, you act least of all as is written about how Jesus acted.
Jesus taught love as a key central message, its time you started to understand what that means.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

But you know that there are Christians on here, so you must know that this constant barrage of threads about how awful religion is will get personal at some point. It's no good you sitting there saying you're only criticising the religion and not the people, but Christians do get mocked on here. You wouldn't like it if there were five or six people constantly going on about something you believed in and there was a barrage of mockery.

Like I said, Ben once said that it wasn't fair on SM that some people were constantly going on about Islam, but he doesn't apply that to Christians.

Actually he faces such threads all the time on another forum and was he norm before with countless Muslim threads and homosexual threads. It was a daily norm and Eilzel rises to the challenge, he does not moan as you have. He will speak out against pointless derogatory insults to homosexuals and rightly so because they is directly attacking people. The difference on the Muslim threads was they were presented to argue to fear Muslims, as if they are followed the same beliefs. By your very belief, you automatically dismiss the beliefs of others, by just believing. That is your choice not to believe and say why those religious to you are wrong, because you view yours as right. Again what is being criticized is bad points in religions, where they effect the well being and equality of others. Being critical of bad aspects within a faith , has helped there be Christians like yourself today, who only follow the New Testament. Without criticism of the faith, that would not have happened. Even Christians are critical of the different Christian interpretations. This is a debate forum, and such threads garner lots of interesting debate. HF is always abusive in regards to homosexuals and always has been. It would make no difference if none of these Christian threads had been posted.

Which other forum?

Criticising Christians is directly attacking people too.

You can dress it up you like under the banner of "intellectual discussion", but you know very well that's garbage a lot of the time.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

awww is the lady boy owner all scared...lol..

Grow the fuck up, you act least of all as is written about how Jesus acted.
Jesus taught love as a key central message, its time you started to understand what that means.

You see, that makes no sense to me. Why are you telling someone what Jesus taught if you don't believe in him as the Son of God?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Actually he faces such threads all the time on another forum and was he norm before with countless Muslim threads and homosexual threads. It was a daily norm and Eilzel rises to the challenge, he does not moan as you have. He will speak out against pointless derogatory insults to homosexuals and rightly so because they is directly attacking people. The difference on the Muslim threads was they were presented to argue to fear Muslims, as if they are followed the same beliefs. By your very belief, you automatically dismiss the beliefs of others, by just believing. That is your choice not to believe and say why those religious to you are wrong, because you view yours as right. Again what is being criticized is bad points in religions, where they effect the well being and equality of others. Being critical of bad aspects within a faith , has helped there be Christians like yourself today, who only follow the New Testament. Without criticism of the faith, that would not have happened. Even Christians are critical of the different Christian interpretations. This is a debate forum, and such threads garner lots of interesting debate. HF is always abusive in regards to homosexuals and always has been. It would make no difference if none of these Christian threads had been posted.

Which other forum?

Criticising Christians is directly attacking people too.

You can dress it up you like under the banner of "intellectual discussion", but you know very well that's garbage a lot of the time.

People are criticizing aspects of the bad in Christianity. I am critical of HF, because he acts nothing like how Jesus taught. He is what I would class as an extremist Christian in his beliefs. In other words what makes Christianity look bad. Not dressing anything up, you fail to see that it is mainly bad points of the faith and also absurdities that are given critical views.
What next, are you saying I should not be critical of racism, in case I hurt the sensitivities of a racist?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Grow the fuck up, you act least of all as is written about how Jesus acted.
Jesus taught love as a key central message, its time you started to understand what that means.

You see, that makes no sense to me. Why are you telling someone what Jesus taught if you don't believe in him as the Son of God?

or that God even exists , I know it's all very mixed up to say the least ...

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Grow the fuck up, you act least of all as is written about how Jesus acted.
Jesus taught love as a key central message, its time you started to understand what that means.

You see, that makes no sense to me. Why are you telling someone what Jesus taught if you don't believe in him as the Son of God?

Simple, I can see Jesus as a man and a teacher, as nothing more than human, someone forward thinking for the time, even to be admired for some of his teachings.
It does not mean I agree with all his view, but many views centered around one major aspect.
Love.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Which other forum?

Criticising Christians is directly attacking people too.

You can dress it up you like under the banner of "intellectual discussion", but you know very well that's garbage a lot of the time.

People are criticizing aspects of the bad in Christianity. I am critical of HF, because he acts nothing like how Jesus taught. He is what I would class as an extremist Christian in his beliefs. In other words what makes Christianity look bad. Not dressing anything up, you fail to see that it is mainly bad points of the faith and also absurdities that are given critical views.
What next, are you saying I should not be critical of racism, in case I hurt the sensitivities of a racist?

They're criticising it day after day, hour after hour, 24/7. How many times can they say that they don't like religion? I think we all got the message by now.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You see, that makes no sense to me. Why are you telling someone what Jesus taught if you don't believe in him as the Son of God?

Simple, I can see Jesus as a man and a teacher, as nothing more than human, someone forward thinking for the time, even to be admired for some of his teachings.
It does not mean I agree with all his view, but many views centered around one major aspect.
Love.

lol so you can see Jesus as a man and a teacher, yet you have the nerve to try and criticise me because i see Jesus as is taught in the bible...

you are such an idiot didge...

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


People are criticizing aspects of the bad in Christianity. I am critical of HF, because he acts nothing like how Jesus taught. He is what I would class as an extremist Christian in his beliefs. In other words what makes Christianity look bad. Not dressing anything up, you fail to see that it is mainly bad points of the faith and also absurdities that are given critical views.
What next, are you saying I should not be critical of racism, in case I hurt the sensitivities of a racist?

They're criticising it day after day, hour after hour, 24/7. How many times can they say that they don't like religion? I think we all got the message by now.

it is because they would rather be queer than believe in God, it's their choice....

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


People are criticizing aspects of the bad in Christianity. I am critical of HF, because he acts nothing like how Jesus taught. He is what I would class as an extremist Christian in his beliefs. In other words what makes Christianity look bad. Not dressing anything up, you fail to see that it is mainly bad points of the faith and also absurdities that are given critical views.
What next, are you saying I should not be critical of racism, in case I hurt the sensitivities of a racist?

They're criticising it day after day, hour after hour, 24/7. How many times can they say that they don't like religion? I think we all got the message by now.

People criticise many beliefs, concepts and ideologies  every day. The point is to counter back if you do disagree. It is more out of interest people end up debating them like we are now. You do realise you can be critical of anything when discussing as we are on here and hence why people counter back to defend a view point. I am not castigating all Christians, again most are very good people, this is about bad aspects taught in the faith which can make some Christians wrongly enforce these bad ideas into law.
Its not a case of liking or disliking religion, its about disliking bad ideas and beliefs, not the good ones.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Simple, I can see Jesus as a man and a teacher, as nothing more than human, someone forward thinking for the time, even to be admired for some of his teachings.
It does not mean I agree with all his view, but many views centered around one major aspect.
Love.

lol so you can see Jesus as a man and a teacher, yet you have the nerve to try and criticise me because i see Jesus as is taught in the bible...

you are such an idiot didge...

Well mines more believable that he was just a man.
I would claim you do not see Jesus how he taught because you are constantly nasty about groups of people.
That is not love you follow but hate.
Jesus never taught hate.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They're criticising it day after day, hour after hour, 24/7. How many times can they say that they don't like religion? I think we all got the message by now.

People criticise many beliefs, concepts and ideologies  every day. The point is to counter back if you do disagree. It is more out of interest people end up debating them like we are now. You do realise you can be critical of anything when discussing as we are on here and hence why people counter back to defend a view point. I am not castigating all Christians, again most are very good people, this is about bad aspects taught in the faith which can make some Christians wrongly enforce these bad ideas into law.
Its not a case of liking or disliking religion, its about disliking bad ideas and beliefs, not the good ones.

Yes, but one is outnumbered so much on here, so it becomes a bit overwhelming to counter everything. My daily post count would be more than your daily post count - and you wouldn't want that.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


People criticise many beliefs, concepts and ideologies  every day. The point is to counter back if you do disagree. It is more out of interest people end up debating them like we are now. You do realise you can be critical of anything when discussing as we are on here and hence why people counter back to defend a view point. I am not castigating all Christians, again most are very good people, this is about bad aspects taught in the faith which can make some Christians wrongly enforce these bad ideas into law.
Its not a case of liking or disliking religion, its about disliking bad ideas and beliefs, not the good ones.

Yes, but one is outnumbered so much on here, so it becomes a bit overwhelming to counter everything. My daily post count would be more than your daily post count - and you wouldn't want that.

Fair enough Rags and at least you are defending, where this has been a good discussion as they all should be.


Catch you later

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, but one is outnumbered so much on here, so it becomes a bit overwhelming to counter everything. My daily post count would be more than your daily post count - and you wouldn't want that.

Fair enough Rags and at least you are defending, where this has been a good discussion as they all should be.


Catch you later    

Yes, it has been much better than some of them.

See you later.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

lol so you can see Jesus as a man and a teacher, yet you have the nerve to try and criticise me because i see Jesus as is taught in the bible...

you are such an idiot didge...

Well mines more believable that he was just a man.
I would claim you do not see Jesus how he taught because you are constantly nasty about groups of people.
That is not love you follow but hate.
Jesus never taught hate.

So do you see Jesus as the son of God..?? take your time....

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Well mines more believable that he was just a man.
I would claim you do not see Jesus how he taught because you are constantly nasty about groups of people.
That is not love you follow but hate.
Jesus never taught hate.

So do you see Jesus as the son of God..?? take your time....

Nope, I see him as just a man.
This should be hilarious.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

So do you see Jesus as the son of God..?? take your time....

Nope, I see him as just a man.
This should be hilarious.  

that's why our versions do not agree, you are probably more in line with Muslims even mormons on this subject, they think he was a good man but not the son of God, basically we are discussing to separate entities one you have made up for yourself and one the bible talks of.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Nope, I see him as just a man.
This should be hilarious.  

that's why our versions do not agree, you are probably more in line with Muslims even mormons on this subject, they think he was a good man but not the son of God,  basically we are discussing to separate entities one you have made up for yourself and one the bible talks of.

Not in line with any religious view point, just that he was a man.

Catch you later as this has run its course this debate

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

that's why our versions do not agree, you are probably more in line with Muslims even mormons on this subject, they think he was a good man but not the son of God,  basically we are discussing to separate entities one you have made up for yourself and one the bible talks of.

Not in line with any religious view point, just that he was a man.

Catch you later as this has run its course this debate

how can you say others version of Jesus is wrong when you make yours up...

Hang on....

All these extremist religious types are not killers because of their religion! They're killers because they're killers - perhaps if it wasn't religion they'd use another excuse? How would we know?

It's like saying guns are killers or gun-owners are killers.
They're not. Only the people who misuse them are.

eddie wrote:Hang on....

All these extremist religious types are not killers because of their religion! They're killers because they're killers - perhaps if it wasn't religion they'd use another excuse? How would we know?

It's like saying guns are killers or gun-owners are killers.
They're not. Only the people who misuse them are.

It's mostly a tribal thing anyway. People say that the trouble in NI was religious, but it wasn't really - it was tribal.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:Hang on....

All these extremist religious types are not killers because of their religion! They're killers because they're killers - perhaps if it wasn't religion they'd use another excuse? How would we know?

It's like saying guns are killers or gun-owners are killers.
They're not. Only the people who misuse them are.

It's mostly a tribal thing anyway. People say that the trouble in NI was religious, but it wasn't really - it was tribal.

Was it hell, ask my OH, he was there during the troubles, religion, religion, religion, my God's better than your God etc. And religion ruled Ireland and led to terrible abuse of women and children, and still does.

risingsun wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's mostly a tribal thing anyway. People say that the trouble in NI was religious, but it wasn't really - it was tribal.

Was it hell, ask my OH, he was there during the troubles, religion, religion, religion, my God's better than your God etc.  And religion ruled Ireland and led to terrible abuse of women and children, and still does.  

Nope. The religion was a side issue.

what a load of tosh as usual religion was used as an excuse in ireland....

it seems more than a coincidence that more often than not atrocities are committed by Muslims but I am sure it is just coincidence...

eddie wrote:Hang on....

All these extremist religious types are not killers because of their religion! They're killers because they're killers - perhaps if it wasn't religion they'd use another excuse? How would we know?

It's like saying guns are killers or gun-owners are killers.
They're not. Only the people who misuse them are.

Hi Eddie


Do not agree with your last point. The gun does not have instructions within, commanding the new gun owner to be a killer. However extremists believe from reading and interpreting text that they are justified to kill. A killer is not a killer until he kills. So why they use another excuse here, when it is off religious text that they interpret to justify killing. Other motivating factors would be revenge to a wrong done to your family for example, but hang on a minute. Many of these Muslims that go off to fight do not have family there and then the only thing that you are left with for going would be to fight for a religious state and even more hope to die in battle in martyrdom. Tad to many things to leave out of the equation there. As it would be rare for someone to go off and actually fight against an injustice where hey have no connection. Throw in religion and in this instance Islam, then you have religious justification for going of to fight based off a view Muslims as family. Whatever way you look at this, religion plays a fundamental part here, not everything and not all. Plenty of other factors play a part, but religion in this instance plays a very big part. They do not have to be experts on Islam and even better that they are not as then they are easily more manipulated to join

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:what a load of tosh as usual religion was used as an excuse in ireland....

it seems more than a coincidence that more often than not atrocities are committed by Muslims but I am sure it is just coincidence...

of course

Belatucadros wrote:

eddie wrote:Hang on....

All these extremist religious types are not killers because of their religion! They're killers because they're killers - perhaps if it wasn't religion they'd use another excuse? How would we know?

It's like saying guns are killers or gun-owners are killers.
They're not. Only the people who misuse them are.

Hi Eddie


Do not agree with your last point. The gun does not have instructions within, commanding the new gun owner to be a killer. However extremists believe from reading and interpreting text that they are justified to kill. A killer is not a killer until he kills. So why they use another excuse here, when it is off religious text that they interpret to justify killing. Other motivating factors would be revenge to a wrong done to your family for example, but hang on a minute. Many of these Muslims that go off to fight do not have family there and then the only thing that you are left with for going would be to fight for a religious state and even more hope to die in battle in martyrdom. Tad to many things to leave out of the equation there. As it would be rare for someone to go off and actually fight against an injustice where hey have no connection. Throw in religion and in this instance Islam, then you have religious justification for going of to fight based off a view Muslims as family. Whatever way you look at this, religion plays a fundamental part here, not everything and not all. Plenty of other factors play a part, but religion in this instance plays a very big part. They do not have to be experts on Islam and even better that they are not as then they are easily more manipulated to join

exactly my point about Muslims their book calls them to be killers..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:what a load of tosh as usual religion was used as an excuse in ireland....

it seems more than a coincidence that more often than not atrocities are committed by Muslims but I am sure it is just coincidence...

It was a mainly sectarian conflict, but religion certainly was a factor and it was religion again that divided people to different sides against each other.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Hi Eddie


Do not agree with your last point. The gun does not have instructions within, commanding the new gun owner to be a killer. However extremists believe from reading and interpreting text that they are justified to kill. A killer is not a killer until he kills. So why they use another excuse here, when it is off religious text that they interpret to justify killing. Other motivating factors would be revenge to a wrong done to your family for example, but hang on a minute. Many of these Muslims that go off to fight do not have family there and then the only thing that you are left with for going would be to fight for a religious state and even more hope to die in battle in martyrdom. Tad to many things to leave out of the equation there. As it would be rare for someone to go off and actually fight against an injustice where hey have no connection. Throw in religion and in this instance Islam, then you have religious justification for going of to fight based off a view Muslims as family. Whatever way you look at this, religion plays a fundamental part here, not everything and not all. Plenty of other factors play a part, but religion in this instance plays a very big part. They do not have to be experts on Islam and even better that they are not as then they are easily more manipulated to join

exactly my point about Muslims their book calls them to be killers..

So does the bible and has been used also and interpreted to justify killing, for the best part of 2000 years.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:what a load of tosh as usual religion was used as an excuse in ireland....

it seems more than a coincidence that more often than not atrocities are committed by Muslims but I am sure it is just coincidence...

It was a mainly sectarian conflict, but religion certainly was a factor and it was religion again that divided people to different sides against each other.

Well it distinguished the two sides of the conflict, but it was still tribal in nature IMO. Birds of a feather and all that.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

exactly my point about Muslims their book calls them to be killers..

So does the bible and has been used also and interpreted to justify killing.

does the bible say kill those who do not believe?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


It was a mainly sectarian conflict, but religion certainly was a factor and it was religion again that divided people to different sides against each other.

Well it distinguished the two sides of the conflict, but it was still tribal in nature IMO. Birds of a feather and all that.

That is a simplified way of looking at this. Most of the Protestant Northern Irish are descended from Scots and English and committed devastation, bloodshed etc to Ireland, based off classing the Catholics as heretics for their faith. The religion also allows the opposing force to be seen condemned from a belief their interpretation of Christianity is wrong. This allows you to dehumanize your enemy. I agree it is far more sectarian, but religion certainly plays a part

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well it distinguished the two sides of the conflict, but it was still tribal in nature IMO. Birds of a feather and all that.

That is a simplified way of looking at this. Most of the Protestant Northern Irish are descended from Scots and English and committed devastation, bloodshed etc to Ireland, based off classing the Catholics as heretics for their faith. The religion also allows the opposing force to be seen condemned from a belief their interpretation of Christianity is wrong. This allows you to dehumanize your enemy. I agree it is far more sectarian, but religion certainly plays a part

I think that saying it was all religion is too simplistic a way of looking at it.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


So does the bible and has been used also and interpreted to justify killing.

does the bible say kill those who do not believe?

Yep


Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well it distinguished the two sides of the conflict, but it was still tribal in nature IMO. Birds of a feather and all that.

That is a simplified way of looking at this. Most of the Protestant Northern Irish are descended from Scots and English and committed devastation, bloodshed etc to Ireland, based off classing the Catholics as heretics for their faith. The religion also allows the opposing force to be seen condemned from a belief their interpretation of Christianity is wrong. This allows you to dehumanize your enemy. I agree it is far more sectarian, but religion certainly plays a part

just a way to stir up two contingents, nothing more sophisticated than shouting God wills it, just an excuse nothing more.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


That is a simplified way of looking at this. Most of the Protestant Northern Irish are descended from Scots and English and committed devastation, bloodshed etc to Ireland, based off classing the Catholics as heretics for their faith. The religion also allows the opposing force to be seen condemned from a belief their interpretation of Christianity is wrong. This allows you to dehumanize your enemy. I agree it is far more sectarian, but religion certainly plays a part

I think that saying it was all religion is too simplistic a way of looking at it.

I agree, as many factors play a part and why I said sectarianism played one of the biggest parts.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

does the bible say kill those who do not believe?

Yep


Kill Nonbelievers
   They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

read the whole chapter it is bringing people back to God from idols, they are believers who had strayed not people from other beliefs...

besides that as for a certain time, which can be seen by how many Christians are still killing non Christians...

Yet hardly ever a day goes by without seeing another Muslim atrocity....

that shows your difference...

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Yep


Kill Nonbelievers
   They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

read the whole chapter it is bringing people back to God from idols, they are believers who had strayed not people from other beliefs...

besides that as for a certain time, which can be seen by how many Christians are still killing non Christians...

Yet hardly ever a day goes by without seeing another Muslim atrocity....

that shows your difference...

It does not matter HF, which shows why you are missing the whole point again. There is Herem in the bible the command to commit genocide which this reasoning was used to carry out such acts. What I am showing you and can show others, is how easily they can be interpretation to kill and has done for the best part of 2000 years in Christianity. Islam does not allow you to kill either, except in defense of your land when it is transgressed. The reason there is less Christian extremists, is because most are not conservative literal believers. Muslim extremists interpret the verses that they can fight, just as Christians do.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

read the whole chapter it is bringing people back to God from idols, they are believers who had strayed not people from other beliefs...

besides that as for a certain time, which can be seen by how many Christians are still killing non Christians...

Yet hardly ever a day goes by without seeing another Muslim atrocity....

that shows your difference...

It does not matter HF, which shows why you are missing the whole point again. There is Herem in the bible the command to commit genocide which this reasoning was used to carry out such acts. What I am showing you and can show others, is how easily they can be interpretation to kill and has done for the best part of 2000 years in Christianity. Islam does not allow you to kill either, except in defense of your land when it is transgressed. The reason there is less Christian extremists, is because most are not conservative literal believers.

it as clearly for a certain time, most of it with the jews going to the promise land, we very seldom see Christians attacking anyone or killing anyone so clearly there is no standing rule on killing anyone...

In contrast we see daily give or take Muslims killing, hanging, maiming in the name of allah by that alone it is clear that islam calls for such killing and hanging still and always will..

if as in the other thread you are no separating jews from Christians and implying they have an argument with each other then is it the jews that are causing all the trouble not the Christians and what separates the two groups to make them fight...