Religion is man-made, not God-made and beware only, the Religious Blind Mice

This has always been my problem with it.

I have no problem with religion as it brings people together, in a family-type unit and they pray to their "father".

Religion doesn't destroy people or lives anymore than any other inanimate object does, until it gets in the wrong hands. People can find comfort in coming together and reading from their books; it's a community after all.

It only goes wrong when people become fanatical and so tunnel-visioned that they can't see beyond their scripts and their faith. When they cast God as in imposing force and a great dictator they do their own "father" an injustice.

They become religious blind mice.

Why do people have to question what other's believe? If a human wants to hold dear, some words that warm his soul and then share them with others who want to fill their souls with those words like a warm blanket, then who are we to judge?

As long as the religious who walk on the earth know that religion was made as a comfort club for the like-minded, what is the harm?


God didn't make religion. He doesn't need worship or promises or words set in stone to be carried like a boulder on your shoulder. He doesn't need undying love or the loyalty of a man acting like a lovesick new puppy.
He doesn't need any more blind mice.
He doesn't need, full-stop.

If he created you he wants you to be you. A you, that you created and sculpted and gave birth to. He trusts you to make the right choices and use the free will that he gave you to live and walk the path you choose.


God doesn't make religion; man makes religion in his own image.

Here's my poem (turned into a rock song) about religion and religious blind mice:

What was the fuss all about?
Couldn't help but notice there was nothing about you
A big fat ego in an empty shell
You blow your own trumpet and you blow it well
A little red book clutched to your heart, emphasising your love of God
Over and over and over

You ain't unique and you ain't exceptional
Speaking in tongues try and work a miracle
Walk on water then turn it to wine
Script that tries to twist your mind
Robots are what you got, well here's a sheep that strayed the flock
Over and over and over

Your words are candy floss they don't fill me up and I've had enough now
Back to the sidelines, get back to the sidelines
Your words are candyfloss, get on your cross coz I've had enough now
Oh I've had enough now...


I think God would like it

Oh FFS. Is there no end to this?

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh FFS. Is there no end to this?

Is that a God-quote?

Rags I'm merely putting my view across to the many religious threads.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh FFS. Is there no end to this?

Is that a God-quote?

Rags I'm merely putting my view across to the many religious threads.

Just what was needed - another thread about religion for others to mock and sneer at those with faith.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh FFS. Is there no end to this?

Is that a God-quote?

Rags I'm merely putting my view across to the many religious threads.

Just what was needed - another thread about religion for others to mock and sneer at those with faith.

Where am i mocking faith?
My only "mocking" is for the fanaticals.

Perhaps you didn't understand it properly, or read it.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Just what was needed - another thread about religion for others to mock and sneer at those with faith.

Where am i mocking faith?
My only "mocking" is for the fanaticals.

Perhaps you didn't understand it properly, or read it.

It will end up the same as any other thread about religion on here, or any other thread which isn't even about religion - with Christians being sneered at.

Even if it doesn't, it will end up being about racism - like all the other threads which don't end up being about religion.

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Just what was needed - another thread about religion for others to mock and sneer at those with faith.

Where am i mocking faith?
My only "mocking" is for the fanaticals.

Perhaps you didn't understand it properly, or read it.

It will end up the same as any other thread about religion on here, or any other thread which isn't even about religion - with Christians being sneered at.

Even if it doesn't, it will end up being about racism - like all the other threads which don't end up being about religion.

Ahh but if the blind could see, the atheists that sneer most and laughing stocks themselves

@eddie
i really like your post i have only just seen it
I really like this part

If he created you he wants you to be you. A you, that you created and sculpted and gave birth to. He trusts you to make the right choices and use the free will that he gave you to live and walk the path you choose.
God doesn't make religion; man makes religion in his own image.

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It will end up the same as any other thread about religion on here, or any other thread which isn't even about religion - with Christians being sneered at.

Even if it doesn't, it will end up being about racism - like all the other threads which don't end up being about religion.

Ahh but if the blind could see, the atheists that sneer most and laughing stocks themselves

The Christianity thread is being used to slag of Christians, and so is the Athiest thread. Christians haven't been on the Athiest thread to slag off Athiests though, and they haven't slagged off Athiests on the Christianity thread either.

Another bullshit attitude that religion is to blame for all the bad in the world. Lol!

Grow the fuck up.

If you blame religion for the bad, then you have to give credit for all the good. It's called "reality" - I suggest you start living in the real world.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Another bullshit attitude that religion is to blame for all the bad in the world. Lol!

Grow the fuck up.

If you blame religion for the bad, then you have to give credit for all the good. It's called "reality" - I suggest you start living in the real world.

Of course if religion is to be credited with good it must also take the bad. The problem is that with many really religious people that way of thinking only goes one way (the good). 

For us skeptics the idea of a caring god is absurd considering the amount of shit that goes on. Even if 'gods' were responsible for the good it doesn't make up for it.

Our attitude is the most grown up. We don't blame (or thank) gods for anything. The good is fortunate and bad is tragically a part of life- but none of it is caused by, or the responsibility of, divine beings.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Another bullshit attitude that religion is to blame for all the bad in the world. Lol!

Grow the fuck up.

If you blame religion for the bad, then you have to give credit for all the good. It's called "reality" - I suggest you start living in the real world.

People are certianly to blame for following man made commands, of which religions are.
The problem is part to blame from the religion, because people are mistaken  to believe something is divinely commanded.
You cannot escape the fact it is ever to easy for example for someone within your faith to interpret the view they have been transgressed and to fight back in return through a belief of Martydom.
Its no good ignoring all this and saying grow up, when there is a substancial amount of Muslims that believe this.
You cannot ignore also versions of Islam like Wahabbism that forms a very extreme view of Islam which is also a danger to other Muslims.
So its no good sticking your head in the sand and its timne to be adult enough to deal with the problem anc counter the Rhetoric they are spreading.

Eilzel wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Another bullshit attitude that religion is to blame for all the bad in the world. Lol!

Grow the fuck up.

If you blame religion for the bad, then you have to give credit for all the good. It's called "reality" - I suggest you start living in the real world.

Of course if religion is to be credited with good it must also take the bad. The problem is that with many really religious people that way of thinking only goes one way (the good). 

For us skeptics the idea of a caring god is absurd considering the amount of shit that goes on. Even if 'gods' were responsible for the good it doesn't make up for it.

Our attitude is the most grown up. We don't blame (or thank) gods for anything. The good is fortunate and bad is tragically a part of life- but none of it is caused by, or the responsibility of, divine beings.

On this forum though, religion is hardly ever credited with anything good - it's all bad, bad, bad. You are the one who is blinkered because you only see the bad.

You see, straightaway you are saying that religious people are not grown up and you're slating them yet again.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Of course if religion is to be credited with good it must also take the bad. The problem is that with many really religious people that way of thinking only goes one way (the good). 

For us skeptics the idea of a caring god is absurd considering the amount of shit that goes on. Even if 'gods' were responsible for the good it doesn't make up for it.

Our attitude is the most grown up. We don't blame (or thank) gods for anything. The good is fortunate and bad is tragically a part of life- but none of it is caused by, or the responsibility of, divine beings.

On this forum though, religion is hardly ever credited with anything good - it's all bad, bad, bad. You are the one who is blinkered because you only see the bad.

You see, straightaway you are saying that religious people are not grown up and you're slating them yet again.

Yes but the good done, is done for an ulteria motive, one of rewards in an after life and one to prevent punishment in an after life.
So what good really comes from religion, other than helping to ease the fear of people from dying?

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

On this forum though, religion is hardly ever credited with anything good - it's all bad, bad, bad. You are the one who is blinkered because you only see the bad.

You see, straightaway you are saying that religious people are not grown up and you're slating them yet again.

Yes but the good done, is done for an ulteria motive, one of rewards in an after life and one to prevent punishment in an after life.
So what good really comes from religion, other than helping to ease the fear of people from dying?

You wouldn't know if you don't believe. Many people get a lot of good out of it every day. Their faith helps them all the time.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Yes but the good done, is done for an ulteria motive, one of rewards in an after life and one to prevent punishment in an after life.
So what good really comes from religion, other than helping to ease the fear of people from dying?

You wouldn't know if you don't believe. Many people get a lot of good out of it every day. Their faith helps them all the time.

But that is incorrect because I did very much once believe.
See you answere they get lots out of it, in other words peace of mind. That is all it really brings.
Again things done are done out of a belief of reward and punishments. The reality is it really only brings peace of mind with death.
You do not have to religious or believe in anything divine in any shape or form to be the most righteus person going.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You wouldn't know if you don't believe. Many people get a lot of good out of it every day. Their faith helps them all the time.

But that is incorrect because I did very much once believe.
See you answere they get lots out of it, in other words peace of mind. That is all it really brings.
Again things done are done out of a belief of reward and punishments. The reality is it really only brings peace of mind with death.
You do not have to religious or believe in anything divine in any shape or form to be the most righteus person going.

Well then clearly you didn't get anything good out of it. Others do though, and you would have to be them to understand. You misunderstand if you think it's only about reward and punishment, and peace of mind on death.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

But that is incorrect because I did very much once believe.
See you answere they get lots out of it, in other words peace of mind. That is all it really brings.
Again things done are done out of a belief of reward and punishments. The reality is it really only brings peace of mind with death.
You do not have to religious or believe in anything divine in any shape or form to be the most righteus person going.

Well then clearly you didn't get anything good out of it. Others do though, and you would have to be them to understand. You misunderstand if you think it's only about reward and punishment, and peace of mind on death.

Again because I realized no good comes out of religion.
People are led by fear in the abrahamic faiths into believeing.
I do not fear death, that is the end and hence why I enjoy life.
If I am wrong what do I have to lose?
If the deities of the Abrahamic faiths are indeed real, then they are evil and not good, because something of such intelligence would not invent evil or a place to punish people eternally.

You tell me then what else it is about, because if you do not fear, you have no reason to believe.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well then clearly you didn't get anything good out of it. Others do though, and you would have to be them to understand. You misunderstand if you think it's only about reward and punishment, and peace of mind on death.

Again because I realized no good comes out of religion.
People are led by fear in the abrahamic faiths into believeing.
I do not fear death, that is the end and hence why I enjoy life.
If I am wrong what do I have to lose?
If the deities of the Abrahamic faiths are indeed real, then they are evil and not good, because something of such intelligence would not invent evil or a place to punish people eternally.

You tell me then what else it is about, because if you do not fear, you have no reason to believe.

You do not speak for people with faith, as much as you think you do. You can only speak for yourself, and clearly you got nothing out of it.

Why does one need a particular reason to believe?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Again because I realized no good comes out of religion.
People are led by fear in the abrahamic faiths into believeing.
I do not fear death, that is the end and hence why I enjoy life.
If I am wrong what do I have to lose?
If the deities of the Abrahamic faiths are indeed real, then they are evil and not good, because something of such intelligence would not invent evil or a place to punish people eternally.

You tell me then what else it is about, because if you do not fear, you have no reason to believe.

You do not speak for people with faith, as much as you think you do. You can only speak for yourself, and clearly you got nothing out of it.

Why does one need a particular reason to believe?

Because I think people are badly mistaken in their beliefs and for the most part religion is bad because it takes away freedom of choice through fear. So I will speak out on what I see wrong and be critical of the Abrahamic religions, because 2000 yeats of history shows how very bad they are in how people follow them. Not only that people again are believing through fear, there is no two ways about this.
Are you saying you do not fear the mythical place of hell?
If you do not fear this place, you have no reason to believe.
You believe because you do not want to end up there and want to be accepted to another mythical place called heaven.

Raggs you seen to dislike anyone even discussing religion. It isn't sacred, anything should be open to criticism and debate, however harsh it may seem.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You do not speak for people with faith, as much as you think you do. You can only speak for yourself, and clearly you got nothing out of it.

Why does one need a particular reason to believe?

Because I think people are badly mistaken in their beliefs and for the most part religion is bad because it takes away freedom of choice through fear. So I will speak out on what I see wrong and be critical of the Abrahamic religions, because 2000 yeats of history shows how very bad they are in how people follow them. Not only that people again are believing through fear, there is no two ways about this.
Are you saying you do not fear the mythical place of hell?
If you do not fear this place, you have no reason to believe.
You believe because you do not want to end up there and want to be accepted to another mythical place called heaven.

You can think what you like, but as you're very keen on people not telling others what to do, perhaps you should leave those with faith alone. Just because religion made you bitter, that doesn't mean it has the same effect on others.

Don't tell me why I have faith - it's not your place to do so.

Eilzel wrote:Raggs you seen to dislike anyone even discussing religion. It isn't sacred, anything should be open to criticism and debate, however harsh it may seem.

I dislike the attitude of the religion-bashers on here. You're all up yourselves and think you're better than those with faith.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Because I think people are badly mistaken in their beliefs and for the most part religion is bad because it takes away freedom of choice through fear. So I will speak out on what I see wrong and be critical of the Abrahamic religions, because 2000 yeats of history shows how very bad they are in how people follow them. Not only that people again are believing through fear, there is no two ways about this.
Are you saying you do not fear the mythical place of hell?
If you do not fear this place, you have no reason to believe.
You believe because you do not want to end up there and want to be accepted to another mythical place called heaven.

You can think what you like, but as you're very keen on people not telling others what to do, perhaps you should leave those with faith alone. Just because religion made you bitter, that doesn't mean it has the same effect on others.

Don't tell me why I have faith - it's not your place to do so.

Not telling anyone to do anything here, and you are just inventing nonsense now, because you cannot answer simple questions posed to you.
In fact you do this all the time, when you have no response.
People are free to choose what they want, I will however be critical of views, which effect the well being and equality of others.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You can think what you like, but as you're very keen on people not telling others what to do, perhaps you should leave those with faith alone. Just because religion made you bitter, that doesn't mean it has the same effect on others.

Don't tell me why I have faith - it's not your place to do so.

Not telling anyone to do anything here, and you are just inventing nonsense now, because you cannot answer simple questions posed to you.
In fact you do this all the time, when you have no response.
People are free to choose what they want, I will however be critical of views, which effect the well being and equality of others.

And yet you don't like anyone criticising your views. You're so intolerant.

Don't bother to badger me for my own beliefs - I don't pander to arrogance.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

Not telling anyone to do anything here, and you are just inventing nonsense now, because you cannot answer simple questions posed to you.
In fact you do this all the time, when you have no response.
People are free to choose what they want, I will however be critical of views, which effect the well being and equality of others.

And yet you don't like anyone criticising your views. You're so intolerant.

Don't bother to badger me for my own beliefs - I don't pander to arrogance.

Deflection argument again.
I debate daily with people who disagree with me, so that again is absurd.
Again to me you lack faith because a person of 100% does noty fear critism of their faith.
The only reason people act like you do because for one, you have not the answers to points raised to you and you fear you might be wrong and lose your faith. Otherwise your replies to my criticism do not make any sense.
So to claim I am intolerant is yet again a childish deflection

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

And yet you don't like anyone criticising your views. You're so intolerant.

Don't bother to badger me for my own beliefs - I don't pander to arrogance.

Deflection argument again.
I debate daily with people who disagree with me, so that again is absurd.
Again to me you lack faith because a person of 100% does noty fear critism of their faith.
The only reason people act like you do because for one, you have not the answers to points raised to you and you fear you might be wrong and lose your faith. Otherwise your replies to my criticism do not make any sense.
So to claim I am intolerant is yet again a childish deflection

I don't give a damn about your "to me" stuff. You are bitter and twisted because of religion, and you want others to be the same as you. You need to get over whatever happened to you and stop telling others what they believe or should believe.

It's the intolerance on this forum which is the issue. This is a manmade forum full of people saying how marvellous they are because they're athiests. If anyone criticised them for their lack of faith, they'd be howling all over the place, and yet they think it's fine to criticise Christians for their faith.

Interestingly, I remember some people being up in arms because of the Muslim-bashing on here - because SM is a Muslim.

You are the same people who screech about "equality", and yet if someone discriminated against a Christian, you'd all be whooping with joy - because you think that Christians don't deserve to be equal, and that they deserve to be discriminated against.

Hypocrites.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Deflection argument again.
I debate daily with people who disagree with me, so that again is absurd.
Again to me you lack faith because a person of 100% does noty fear critism of their faith.
The only reason people act like you do because for one, you have not the answers to points raised to you and you fear you might be wrong and lose your faith. Otherwise your replies to my criticism do not make any sense.
So to claim I am intolerant is yet again a childish deflection

I don't give a damn about your "to me" stuff. You are bitter and twisted because of religion, and you want others to be the same as you. You need to get over whatever happened to you and stop telling others what they believe or should believe.

Incorrect again.
Again what people choose is up to them.
I think you will find it is religious people who actively try to convert people.
You need to grow up and understand people will be critical of religions and if you had faith, you would not be so insensitive to that.

I've seen Ben sit here and ask people how they think SM felt when people were Muslim bashing. Has he ever asked that about Christians? No, of course not.

Ex-Christians are like ex-smokers - the worst naggers.

Whenever there's a thread about a Christian, the usual suspects all leap in howling about how bad the religion is. If there's a thread about a Muslim, they say - oh well, you can't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few.

Hypocrites.

Raggamuffin wrote:I've seen Ben sit here and ask people how they think SM felt when people were Muslim bashing. Has he ever asked that about Christians? No, of course not.

Ex-Christians are like ex-smokers - the worst naggers.

Not really, I am at odds with views that effect the well being and equality of people and Pauline Christianity teaches discrmination.
Should I not be critical of discrmination because you are being too insensitive?
Do you agree with the teachings of Paul which discrminate against women for example?

I will not respond to Didge and his bitter bigotry. I'll just speak generally. The Christian-bashing on here has gone on long enough.

Raggamuffin wrote:Whenever there's a thread about a Christian, the usual suspects all leap in howling about how bad the religion is. If there's a thread about a Muslim, they say - oh well, you can't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few.

Hypocrites.

I think you will find I am highly critical of Islam.

Raggamuffin wrote:I will not respond to Didge and his bitter bigotry. I'll just speak generally. The Christian-bashing on here has gone on long enough.

Seriously grow up.
All you are proving is how you will not face problems that are very much written in relgious works.
That is nothing more than burying your head in the sand to such problems.

religion is man made and dangerous, I ill stick with faith, much more healthy..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:religion is man made and dangerous, I ill stick  with faith, much more healthy..

so will i

Raggamuffin wrote:Whenever there's a thread about a Christian, the usual suspects all leap in howling about how bad the religion is. If there's a thread about a Muslim, they say - oh well, you can't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few.

Hypocrites.

correct

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I will not respond to Didge and his bitter bigotry. I'll just speak generally. The Christian-bashing on here has gone on long enough.

Seriously grow up.
All you are proving is how you will not face problems that are very much written in relgious works.
That is nothing more than burying your head in the sand to such problems.

Actually you won't face up to the fact that we believe in God and it is you that keep going on about Christianity lol

We believe don't you get it

These militant athiests just don't get it. Nothing they say will make the slightest bit of difference, except to bore everyone silly. How many times can they say that Christianity sucks before they bore themselves?

Raggamuffin wrote:These militant athiests just don't get it. Nothing they say will make the slightest bit of difference, except to bore everyone silly. How many times can they say that Christianity sucks before they bore themselves?

That is wrong again, I have no issue with the good teachings of Jesus.
I do have issues with the discriminating parts that the many Christian denominations teach.
You are again just inventing nonsense Rags.

Raggamuffin wrote:These militant athiests just don't get it. Nothing they say will make the slightest bit of difference, except to bore everyone silly. How many times can they say that Christianity sucks before they bore themselves?

Yep we have had this for over 8 years now and its same old thing over and over again .
If they don't believe fair enough but for unbelievers they sure do pay Christianity a lot of attention

veya_victaous wrote:@eddie
i really like your post i have only just seen it
I really like this part

If he created you he wants you to be you. A you, that you created and sculpted and gave birth to. He trusts you to make the right choices and use the free will that he gave you to live and walk the path you choose.
God doesn't make religion; man makes religion in his own image.

Thanks Veya x

Raggamuffin wrote:Whenever there's a thread about a Christian, the usual suspects all leap in howling about how bad the religion is. If there's a thread about a Muslim, they say - oh well, you can't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few.

Hypocrites.

The lady has a very valid point actually.

I don't see why faith/religion should be so special that people can't question it or debate it, and I won't have that be the case here. If you believe something, you are making a claim, and every claim is worth scrutiny.

Ben_Reilly wrote:I don't see why faith/religion should be so special that people can't question it or debate it, and I won't have that be the case here. If you believe something, you are making a claim, and every claim is worth scrutiny.

Did you say that to SM when she was here?

I have claimed nothing, except that I have faith. That does not entitled anyone to badger me, tell me what I believe, that I am against gay people, or that I am stupid to have faith.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Whenever there's a thread about a Christian, the usual suspects all leap in howling about how bad the religion is. If there's a thread about a Muslim, they say - oh well, you can't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few.

Hypocrites.

The lady has a very valid point actually.

I think the point is vastly over-simplified. When we have stories about Christians committing crimes or doing bad things, you don't see people jumping in and saying that their behavior is what Christianity is all about. You do see people saying that when there's any story about a Muslim doing something bad.

There doesn't seem to be anybody here who has to be convinced that most Christians are decent-enough people. There do seem to be a number of people here who cannot be convinced that any Muslims are decent-enough people, on the other hand.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:

The lady has a very valid point actually.

I think the point is vastly over-simplified. When we have stories about Christians committing crimes or doing bad things, you don't see people jumping in and saying that their behavior is what Christianity is all about. You do see people saying that when there's any story about a Muslim doing something bad.

There doesn't seem to be anybody here who has to be convinced that most Christians are decent-enough people. There do seem to be a number of people here who cannot be convinced that any Muslims are decent-enough people, on the other hand.

That's exactly what we do see here.