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Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 6:44 pm
First topic message reminder :
The stunning vote of the Irish to legalize same-sex marriage will be taken as one more indication (along with the legalization of divorce and homosexual behavior and abortion if the mother’s life is at risk, plus the decline in Mass attendance and priestly vocations) of the collapse of the Catholic Church in a country where it once bestrode the sod like a colossus. Such would appear to be the wages of a rolling sexual abuse scandal, particularly acute because of the church’s control of public education, and the ugly history of its abusive homes for wayward boys and girls.
But for all that, Ireland remains a country where over 70 percent of the population identifies as Catholic, where a higher proportion of Catholics go to Mass than in the U.S., where the divorce rate is low. And yet, every Irish political party supported the referendum and the citizenry voted in favor by a 62-38 margin. What gives?
What gives, in part, is that Catholicism, understood as a religious culture rather than as a set of official doctrines, is far more amenable to same-sex marriage than is generally thought. Unlike Protestantism, it never valorized the nuclear family as the church in miniature. Catholics have, by contrast, exercised their analogical imaginations in understanding nuns as married to Jesus and bishops to their dioceses. Priests are fathers; abbeys are governed by mother superiors; monks are brothers; nuns are sisters. In Catholicism, there have always been different kinds of holy families that love makes — and so, why not add one more? It’s no accident that Catholics in the U.S. — white, Hispanic, and otherwise — support same-sex marriage at the same rate as the Irish voted.
Beyond that, the Church in Ireland, whatever its faults, understands itself as linked to the populace in an integral, even tribal way, so that it must be where the Irish people are. That, I think, is why the Irish bishops, while opposing the referendum, did so in a way that made clear that church would not condemn a yes vote. As Bishop Donal McKeown of Derry said during a radio debate, “I don’t doubt that there are many people who are practicing churchgoers of whatever church background who will in conscience vote yes and that’s entirely up to them. I’m not going to say they’re wrong,”
In contrast to the bishops of France, who leapt to the barricades to fight same-sex marriage as if fighting the French Revolution all over again, in Ireland the bishops understood that the community mattered more than the doctrine, that they would have no part of a culture war that divided their country.
The Irish vote will resonate around the world, and perhaps even ring a bell with the two Irish Catholics on the U.S. Supreme Court, John Roberts and Anthony Kennedy, who represent the swing votes on next month’s decision to determine whether same-sex couples have a constitutional right to be married in the United States. For the vote is not just about which way the winds of public opinion are blowing. It’s also about the spirituality of marriage equality.
- See more at: http://marksilk.religionnews.com/2015/05/23/irish-catholicism-supports-same-sex-marriage/#sthash.EbxmlO4j.dpuf
The stunning vote of the Irish to legalize same-sex marriage will be taken as one more indication (along with the legalization of divorce and homosexual behavior and abortion if the mother’s life is at risk, plus the decline in Mass attendance and priestly vocations) of the collapse of the Catholic Church in a country where it once bestrode the sod like a colossus. Such would appear to be the wages of a rolling sexual abuse scandal, particularly acute because of the church’s control of public education, and the ugly history of its abusive homes for wayward boys and girls.
But for all that, Ireland remains a country where over 70 percent of the population identifies as Catholic, where a higher proportion of Catholics go to Mass than in the U.S., where the divorce rate is low. And yet, every Irish political party supported the referendum and the citizenry voted in favor by a 62-38 margin. What gives?
What gives, in part, is that Catholicism, understood as a religious culture rather than as a set of official doctrines, is far more amenable to same-sex marriage than is generally thought. Unlike Protestantism, it never valorized the nuclear family as the church in miniature. Catholics have, by contrast, exercised their analogical imaginations in understanding nuns as married to Jesus and bishops to their dioceses. Priests are fathers; abbeys are governed by mother superiors; monks are brothers; nuns are sisters. In Catholicism, there have always been different kinds of holy families that love makes — and so, why not add one more? It’s no accident that Catholics in the U.S. — white, Hispanic, and otherwise — support same-sex marriage at the same rate as the Irish voted.
Beyond that, the Church in Ireland, whatever its faults, understands itself as linked to the populace in an integral, even tribal way, so that it must be where the Irish people are. That, I think, is why the Irish bishops, while opposing the referendum, did so in a way that made clear that church would not condemn a yes vote. As Bishop Donal McKeown of Derry said during a radio debate, “I don’t doubt that there are many people who are practicing churchgoers of whatever church background who will in conscience vote yes and that’s entirely up to them. I’m not going to say they’re wrong,”
In contrast to the bishops of France, who leapt to the barricades to fight same-sex marriage as if fighting the French Revolution all over again, in Ireland the bishops understood that the community mattered more than the doctrine, that they would have no part of a culture war that divided their country.
The Irish vote will resonate around the world, and perhaps even ring a bell with the two Irish Catholics on the U.S. Supreme Court, John Roberts and Anthony Kennedy, who represent the swing votes on next month’s decision to determine whether same-sex couples have a constitutional right to be married in the United States. For the vote is not just about which way the winds of public opinion are blowing. It’s also about the spirituality of marriage equality.
- See more at: http://marksilk.religionnews.com/2015/05/23/irish-catholicism-supports-same-sex-marriage/#sthash.EbxmlO4j.dpuf
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:13 pm
I kno how God will judge me because his word tells me how he will judge me, this is not pride just using the knowledge he has given me.Belatucadros wrote:heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Again you are mistaken, I have said many times if my salvation depended on my actions even 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 %, I would mess it up.
My salvation is entirely through the work of Jesus.
Praise the Lord.
How am I wrong when you just tries to decide how God would judge you?
That is you believing you are better than God to decide
You express pride and you know it, hence your deflective reply.
Now is when I know the bible better than you.
My only pride is in my saviour Jesus..
your last statement is pride and inaccurate...
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:14 pm
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:Again you are mistaken, I have said many times if my salvation depended on my actions even 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000001 %, I would mess it up.Belatucadros wrote:
Way too much pride.
You fail to understand what pride is.
There should be no pride when looking at what you have done in your Christianity, as your God decides whether it was good, noble etc. By you proving beyond doubt pride, you place yourself above your own God.
As a Christian, you have no need of pride, yet constantly express pride.
You would be seen as disapointing by Jesus for that
My salvation is entirely through the work of Jesus.
Praise the Lord.
Hallelujah HF.
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:14 pm
Shady wrote:heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Again you are mistaken, I have said many times if my salvation depended on my actions even 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000001 %, I would mess it up.
My salvation is entirely through the work of Jesus.
Praise the Lord.
Hallelujah HF.
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:15 pm
bless you Shady...Shady wrote:heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Again you are mistaken, I have said many times if my salvation depended on my actions even 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000001 %, I would mess it up.
My salvation is entirely through the work of Jesus.
Praise the Lord.
Hallelujah HF.
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:18 pm
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:I kno how God will judge me because his word tells me how he will judge me, this is not pride just using the knowledge he has given me.Belatucadros wrote:
How am I wrong when you just tries to decide how God would judge you?
That is you believing you are better than God to decide
You express pride and you know it, hence your deflective reply.
Now is when I know the bible better than you.
My only pride is in my saviour Jesus..
your last statement is pride and inaccurate...
That is you again trying to think as your own god, based on his words, negating the fact, this God could change his mind. You thus think you are god like knowing his ways.
You are full of pride and use poor attempts to deflect that you are.You go against every principle Jesus taught on pride
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:22 pm
you are full of shite that's for sure...lolBelatucadros wrote:heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
I kno how God will judge me because his word tells me how he will judge me, this is not pride just using the knowledge he has given me.
My only pride is in my saviour Jesus..
your last statement is pride and inaccurate...
That is you again trying to think as your own god, based on his words, negating the fact, this God could change his mind. You thus think you are god like knowing his ways.
You are full of pride and use poor attempts to deflect that you are.You go against every principle Jesus taught on pride
the bible, God's word tells me how judgement will work, now god had that written down for me to learn, that's not pride ..lol
As I said before the word of god according to john is Jesus, so if I use the word to understand how judgement will be how can that be against Jesus and his teachings..
so try again.. and try to learn..
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:22 pm
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:bless you Shady...Shady wrote:
Hallelujah HF.
Thank you HF & I have been blessed by the good Lord.
He has blessed me with being open minded.And with having the best & worst sense of humour.
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:23 pm
well Praise the Lord for that and I think he blessed me with the same sense of humour..lolShady wrote:heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
bless you Shady...
Thank you HF & I have been blessed by the good Lord.
He has blessed me with being open minded.And with having the best & worst sense of humour.
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:24 pm
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:you are full of shite that's for sure...lolBelatucadros wrote:
That is you again trying to think as your own god, based on his words, negating the fact, this God could change his mind. You thus think you are god like knowing his ways.
You are full of pride and use poor attempts to deflect that you are.You go against every principle Jesus taught on pride
the bible, God's word tells me how judgement will work, now god had that written down for me to learn, that's not pride ..lol
As I said before the word of god according to john is Jesus, so if I use the word to understand how judgement will be how can that be against Jesus and his teachings..
so try again.. and try to learn..
How do you teach a mental health patient to learn?
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:25 pm
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:you are full of shite that's for sure...lolBelatucadros wrote:
That is you again trying to think as your own god, based on his words, negating the fact, this God could change his mind. You thus think you are god like knowing his ways.
You are full of pride and use poor attempts to deflect that you are.You go against every principle Jesus taught on pride
the bible, God's word tells me how judgement will work, now god had that written down for me to learn, that's not pride ..lol
As I said before the word of god according to john is Jesus, so if I use the word to understand how judgement will be how can that be against Jesus and his teachings..
so try again.. and try to learn..
HF conceding the debate.
So you are saying God will never change his mind and you now know Gods thinking?
Jesus came and changed things, so why can it not be the case on many of your ill conceived views you have?
Does it actually mean that Jesus has shown you the methodology of forgiveness and that you never understand how to apply this to your life?
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:31 pm
lol... he is the same yesterday today and forever...Belatucadros wrote:heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
you are full of shite that's for sure...lol
the bible, God's word tells me how judgement will work, now god had that written down for me to learn, that's not pride ..lol
As I said before the word of god according to john is Jesus, so if I use the word to understand how judgement will be how can that be against Jesus and his teachings..
so try again.. and try to learn..
HF conceding the debate.
So you are saying God will never change his mind and you now know Gods thinking?
Jesus came and changed things, so why can it not be the case on many of your ill conceived views you have?
Does it actually mean that Jesus has shown you the methodology of forgiveness and that you never understand how to apply this to your life?
Jesus restored the original plan, by Grace adam and eve had tranquility and paradise, law destroyed that, God showed grace to the jews when he led them out of egypt, the people asked for the law, it was given, Jesus came to restore the grace that was always meant for man by fulfilling the law once and for all..
God put in his word his ways for dealing with us, that is how I know...
I know how to apply it, John 3:16 for god so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son that whom so ever shall believe on him shall not perish but have everlasting life..
belive on Jesus and his finished works it's all there...
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:35 pm
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:lol... he is the same yesterday today and forever...Belatucadros wrote:
HF conceding the debate.
So you are saying God will never change his mind and you now know Gods thinking?
Jesus came and changed things, so why can it not be the case on many of your ill conceived views you have?
Does it actually mean that Jesus has shown you the methodology of forgiveness and that you never understand how to apply this to your life?
Jesus restored the original plan, by Grace adam and eve had tranquility and paradise, law destroyed that, God showed grace to the jews when he led them out of egypt, the people asked for the law, it was given, Jesus came to restore the grace that was always meant for man by fulfilling the law once and for all..
God put in his word his ways for dealing with us, that is how I know...
I know how to apply it, John 3:16 for god so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son that whom so ever shall believe on him shall not perish but have everlasting life..
belive on Jesus and his finished works it's all there...
There you go again trying to decide Gods plan as if you are privy to it.
This is why Christianity can be dangerous those thinking they know their deities will.
You just keep blaspheming thinking you know mythical god.
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:49 pm
God gave us his word in the bible so we can know his ways and his plans for us..Belatucadros wrote:heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
lol... he is the same yesterday today and forever...
Jesus restored the original plan, by Grace adam and eve had tranquility and paradise, law destroyed that, God showed grace to the jews when he led them out of egypt, the people asked for the law, it was given, Jesus came to restore the grace that was always meant for man by fulfilling the law once and for all..
God put in his word his ways for dealing with us, that is how I know...
I know how to apply it, John 3:16 for god so loved the world that he gave is only begotten son that whom so ever shall believe on him shall not perish but have everlasting life..
belive on Jesus and his finished works it's all there...
There you go again trying to decide Gods plan as if you are privy to it.
This is why Christianity can be dangerous those thinking they know their deities will.
You just keep blaspheming thinking you know mythical god.
The fact i have read his word and have accepted his offer of salvation has nothing to do with pride, actually thinking you can some how do it yourself is pride.
You really are strange didge...
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:50 pm
Again he proves my point still thinking he knows better than his own god.
Wow
Goodnightall
Wow
Goodnightall
Guest- Guest
Re: Irish Catholicism supports same-sex marriage!
by Guest Sun May 24, 2015 11:58 pm
hmmm... i said I have read the word of god and accepted God's offer of salvation, how does that possible level up with me knowing better than God...Belatucadros wrote:Again he proves my point still thinking he knows better than his own god.
Wow
Goodnightall
welcome to the world of didge.....
Guest- Guest
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