Christian bakery guilty of discrimination over gay marriage cake refusal

First topic message reminder :

A Christian-owned bakery that refused to make a cake carrying a pro-gay marriage slogan has been found guilty of discrimination after a landmark legal action.
The Northern Ireland Equality Commission brought the case against Ashers Baking Company on behalf of Gareth Lee, the gay rights activist whose order was declined.
Giving her ruling at Belfast County Court on Tuesday, district judge Isobel Brownlie said: "The defendants have unlawfully discriminated against the plaintiff on grounds of sexual discrimination.  "This is direct discrimination for which there can be no justification."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11614694/Christian-bakery-guilty-of-discrimination-over-gay-marriage-cake-refusal.html


The important part:

Giving evidence, Mr Lee claimed he was left feeling like a lesser person when his order, which was paid in full, was turned down two days after being initially accepted.

Plus it is quite a well timed bit of publicity don't you think???


As Ireland are having a referendum on whether to allow homosexual marriage this week...


I'm sure dodge thinks that all the homosexuals in the EU should be allowed to turn up and vote on this national Irish constitutional issue...

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
i'll tell them i am a Muslim and according to the ayatollah khomeini's book i can play with babies and allah doesn't mind, so it is my religious right...

So now the ayatollah khomeini's supersedes the Quran?
I doubt they will believe that and that it is illegal to marry a child, you would end up no doubt being taken for  evaluation for sanity

he'd fail............

darknessss wrote:

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:



So now the ayatollah khomeini's supersedes the Quran?
I doubt they will believe that and that it is illegal to marry a child, you would end up no doubt being taken for  evaluation for sanity

he'd fail............

It was a cake with The statement 'support gay marriage' on it... they didn't want to do it and were well within their rights not to do so.


Had the people just asked for a regular cake with a regular marriage slogan on it then they would not have been refused.

Tommy Monk wrote:It was a cake with The statement 'support gay marriage' on it... they didn't want to do it and were well within their rights not to do so.


Had the people just asked for a regular cake with a regular marriage slogan on it then they would not have been refused.

Christian bakery chain that employed 80 people.
First off they took the order, by doing so they set themselves up for a big fall.
They then two days later refused to do the order after payment, based on religious sensitivities over marriage and not any religious obligation. There is no religious obligation for a Christian or a Muslim to deny business to a person who they were deem living in sin They could have also asked someone else within their company to make their cake, as they felt uncomfortable making themselves due to the fact they do not agree with same sex marriage. Any company will try to accommodate a religious obligation within reason, what they did hear was actively discriminate against someone because they were homosexual. You have to look at what is reasonable here and this company was not. Any halfwit would have said they were too busy to take the order when it first came, that is how others get away with such poor practices. The fact is they clearly took the order and as seen clearly discriminated against the person because they were homosexual.
.

There certainly is a very grey area when you will have religious obligations and trying to enforce people to do something against their will, that is very different. There is no religious obligation here, and hence why it is discrimination, based on the view they because of their faith, view homosexuality as wrong and same sex marriage as wrong. The same would apply if this was the owners were homosexual and it was a Christian customer. If the Christian customer wanted to have a cake made with a verse from Leviticus stating that homosexuals should be executed, they would have no right to deny them this after taking their order and paying for it. Not only is this a breach of contract but it would be discrimination based on religious grounds. It may well completely insult the homosexual owners and be seen as very hateful, but the bible is not banned  or the verses within and the Christian would be within their rights to ask, even if seen here they were a complete an utter arse. Now if the customer wanted to have written "I hate Gays" or I hate Christians or Muslims" that would be deemed hate speech and they could rightly refuse and also if they wanted to, report this to the Police. Its down to what is being asked and what is reasonable here. It was not unreasonable for them to make a cake or do business with a homosexual, there is no religious obligation. They had many employees and could have looked for someone else to have made the cake, instead they just to discriminate and rightly paid for this.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
that's a great idea, i'm sure they won't refuse but if they do i will be very upset and tell all my fwiends and go to court cos o is all upset...

I think you will end up being questioned by the Police, to finding out who is illegally married to an 8 year old.
.

May want to think that one through first

i'll tell them i am a Muslim and according to the ayatollah khomeini's book i can play with babies and allah doesn't mind, so it is my religious right...

Are religious rights absolute in the UK? That's absurd, if true. Here's how we handle religious whack jobs in the U.S. who marry little girls:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YFZ_Ranch

Was the order taken online...?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
i'll tell them i am a Muslim and according to the ayatollah khomeini's book i can play with babies and allah doesn't mind, so it is my religious right...

Are religious rights absolute in the UK? That's absurd, if true. Here's how we handle religious whack jobs in the U.S. who marry little girls:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YFZ_Ranch

But no convictions out of that whole gang, was there? The girls refused to give their true names and refused to testify.

They actually put seven of them away, with sentences ranging from eight years to life. Ringleader Warren Jeffs isn't eligible for parole until 2038, for example.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:
G'nite KD.  It's still morning for us here.  Have a good one.

It's only 6.02pm here.

it was 6pm hear as well but i need to be up all night some nights as yesterday  so tend to go to bed early and get up at 1-2 in the morning

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's only 6.02pm here.

it was 6pm hear as well but i need to be up all night some nights as yesterday  so tend to go to bed early and get up at 1-2 in the morning

Good idea. I only said that in case anyone thought it was later than it was.

I think that in these discrimination cases, the real issue is how much the business is affected by people "boycotting" it or whatever - the fine itself won't put them out of business.

If the public perceive that there was any kind of stitch up, they'll probably support the bakery.

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
it was 6pm hear as well but i need to be up all night some nights as yesterday  so tend to go to bed early and get up at 1-2 in the morning

Good idea. I only said that in case anyone thought it was later than it was.

Np Raggs

Correct decision and I fully support this judgement.

real equality should be your right to refuse to do something you do not agree with....

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:real equality should be your right to refuse to do something you do not agree with....

So if I went into a shop wearing my gold cross, do you think the person behind the counter should be able to say to me - I'm not serving you because I don't like Christians or Christianity?

I do think this particular case is a bit different in that the bakery didn't refuse to make the cake because the guy is gay, they didn't like what he wanted on the cake. Had he wanted something else - like "happy birthday", I doubt they would have refused to do it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:real equality should be your right to refuse to do something you do not agree with....

So if I went into a shop wearing my gold cross, do you think the person behind the counter should be able to say to me - I'm not serving you because I don't like Christians or Christianity?

I do think this particular case is a bit different in that the bakery didn't refuse to make the cake because the guy is gay, they didn't like what he wanted on the cake. Had he wanted something else - like "happy birthday", I doubt they would have refused to do it.

actually yes I do...

in the same way a Muslim who has taken a job in a supermarket can say i don't want to serve alcohol...

if i get someone else to serve you apparently there is no foul....

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So if I went into a shop wearing my gold cross, do you think the person behind the counter should be able to say to me - I'm not serving you because I don't like Christians or Christianity?

I do think this particular case is a bit different in that the bakery didn't refuse to make the cake because the guy is gay, they didn't like what he wanted on the cake. Had he wanted something else - like "happy birthday", I doubt they would have refused to do it.

actually yes I do...

in the same way a Muslim who has taken a job in a supermarket can say i don't want to serve alcohol...

if i get someone else to serve you apparently there is no foul....

If it's easy to get someone else to serve the person buying alcohol, I don't see the problem. I think there should be compromise of that kind. If it's a load of hassle, and the cashier is up and down like a yoho because every other customer wants alcohol, then clearly that's impractical and the cashier is clearly not up to the job. If you don't want to sell alcohol, don't work in a shop which sells it.

does anyone know of a islamic bakery that can make me a cake with a Charlie hebdo picture on it.

The Devil, You Know wrote:does anyone know of a islamic bakery that can make me a cake with a Charlie hebdo picture on it.

Like I said yesterday, why not try yourself and find out?

The Devil, You Know wrote:does anyone know of a islamic bakery that can make me a cake with a Charlie hebdo picture on it.

If they refused to make the cake, on what grounds would it be discrimination though?

Raggamuffin wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:does anyone know of a islamic bakery that can make me a cake with a Charlie hebdo picture on it.

If they refused to make the cake, on what grounds would it be discrimination though?

Good question. Religion is protected, but are politics?

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If they refused to make the cake, on what grounds would it be discrimination though?

Good question.  Religion is protected, but are politics?

perhaps a better question is why dont those gay rights activists try the same thing at an islamic bakery. why do they only want christian ones prosecuted?

why would a picture of mohammed be political?

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Good question.  Religion is protected, but are politics?

perhaps a better question is why dont those gay rights activists try the same thing at an islamic bakery. why do they only want christian ones prosecuted?

why would a picture of mohammed be political?

Eh?

Did it say Christian bakery or was it owned by Christians?

So the gay mafia have struck again & their appalling bigotry knows no bounds.

Muslim printers could be forced to produce cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed if the case against a Christian bakery which refused to make a Sesame Street gay marriage cake is upheld, a prominent human rights barrister has claimed.

So does the court ruling mean that jewish bakeries will have to decorate cakes with swastikas if requested?

And what about the other mafia....the Muslim mafia? Will Muslim printers have to print images of the prophet muhamed?

Clearly the gay mafia have the upper hand over the religious mafia.I wonder how long that will last?

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If they refused to make the cake, on what grounds would it be discrimination though?

Good question.  Religion is protected, but are politics?

Exactly. Politics was mentioned in this case, but I didn't understand that.

In the above scenario, the Muslim bakers would be refusing on the grounds of their own religion, not the religion of the customer, so I'm not sure if the law would apply.

Gay Mafia?
It just gets more hilarious how paranoid some of the far right are.
There is no evidence this was a set up.
Its a bakery, it does not have "we are Christian" plastered on the front door and there is no valid or justified reason for people to not serve others just because of who they are.
This is what is missed at every turn here where people are so fixated to think it is such a crime that people cannot discriminate, failing to grasp that actually the problem is people discriminating in the first place that are wrong.
There is no religious obligation in the bible that states to refuse people who sinned, where in fact we see the opposite of Jesus in the stories welcome just about every outcast and sinner.
If people are claiming it is going against their religion, sorry but that is a crock of shit, because if they are refusing to serve a customer based on writing some words, then how on earth are they actually being adherents of that faith?

If people are seriously arguing that a faith should discriminate against people, then what is right about that faith? How is it humans can show far greater compassion and love for people than what is preached in these faiths. People seriously need to even see what they are even trying to argue to back here, because I was led to believe Jesus is love, and discrimination is not compatible with love. Hence why any claim to even wish to deny someone, is no advocate of love and thus then believes also that Jesus does not represent love at all. I hope as most Christian I know see him as complete love, the reality some clearly need to understand their faith better. Love is never conditional and it never should be.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Good question.  Religion is protected, but are politics?

perhaps a better question is why dont those gay rights activists try the same thing at an islamic bakery. why do they only want christian ones prosecuted?

why would a picture of mohammed be political?

You think it was deliberate?

It does seem quite a coincidence that a gay activist asked a devout Christian bakery to make the cake.

Shady wrote:So the gay mafia have struck again & their appalling bigotry knows no bounds.

Muslim printers could be forced to produce cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed if the case against a Christian bakery which refused to make a Sesame Street gay marriage cake is upheld, a prominent human rights barrister has claimed.

So does the court ruling mean that jewish bakeries will have to decorate cakes with swastikas if requested?

And what about the other mafia....the Muslim mafia? Will Muslim printers have to print images of the prophet muhamed?

Clearly the gay mafia have the upper hand over the religious mafia.I wonder how long that will last?

What's not very clear is if the discrimination occurred against the customer for being gay, or against gayness generally. If the person asking for the cake had not been gay, I don't know where the law would have stood on that - in that case, the refusal to serve the customer would not have been on the grounds that he was gay.

Raggamuffin wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
perhaps a better question is why dont those gay rights activists try the same thing at an islamic bakery. why do they only want christian ones prosecuted?

why would a picture of mohammed be political?

You think it was deliberate?

It does seem quite a coincidence that a gay activist asked a devout Christian bakery to make the cake.

Devout?
How do we even know if they were devout?
Did they attend mass daily, as that is devout?
Did the shop have a sign saying "Christian Bakery"?
There really is plenty of groundless accusations going on here, all centering on as if to excuse people discriminating. I find that really ridiculous.

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You think it was deliberate?

It does seem quite a coincidence that a gay activist asked a devout Christian bakery to make the cake.

Devout?
How do we even know if they were devout?
Did they attend mass daily, as that is devout?
Did the shop have a sign saying "Christian Bakery"?
There really is plenty of groundless accusations going on here, all centering on as if to excuse people discriminating. I find that really ridiculous.

Well they're devout enough to think that gayness is not right and to refuse to make a cake which condones it.

I'm just naturally suspicious of this kind of thing.

Okay so around 83% of Northern Ireland is Christian, which leaves the options of chancing upon a bakery owner by someone non-religious unlikely. We then have to take into account how religious the people who are Christian are in Ireland, if they are practicing Christians. It really is a matter of pot luck. So to claim this is a set up in a very Christian area is very absurd to say the least. At the end of the day all we know is he went to have a cake done for a wedding. You could argue for him to find a place with owners of non-religious affiliation, but why on earth should he in this day and age?

You might guess they are Christian off their website:

Why Ashers? Well, contrary to popular opinion we are not called Mr & Mrs Asher. Our name comes from the Bible. Asher was a tribe of Israel who had many skilled bakers and created bread fit for a king.


They may have only written that as mere advertizement to garner people to come to claim such biblical evidence to associate with a Hebrew Tribe long since lost I might add to history. So are they devout Christians?

And what do we do when we’re not baking? Well, we love to travel and see what’s happening on the bakery scene in other countries. Then we bring back some great ideas from our adventures and mix them up in the bakery, so there’s always something new for you to try. 


http://www.ashersbakingco.com/about/



Not really a glowing reference to any sign of devoutness there.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:


Devout?
How do we even know if they were devout?
Did they attend mass daily, as that is devout?
Did the shop have a sign saying "Christian Bakery"?
There really is plenty of groundless accusations going on here, all centering on as if to excuse people discriminating. I find that really ridiculous.

Well they're devout enough to think that gayness is not right and to refuse to make a cake which condones it.

I'm just naturally suspicious of this kind of thing.

lol I am sure you are Rags, but lets face it less people are practicing Christians today, though granted you will certainly find more in Ireland, but devout? My parents are devout and would go to church everyday. She has a small bone that she claims to have come from St Anthony> She took e to Lourdes and Knock in the attempt to cure me of Asthma when I had this bad as a child, seriously, that to me is devout

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well they're devout enough to think that gayness is not right and to refuse to make a cake which condones it.

I'm just naturally suspicious of this kind of thing.

lol I am sure you are Rags, but lets face it less people are practicing Christians today, though granted you will certainly find more in Ireland, but devout? My parents are devout and go to church everyday. She has a small bone that she claims to have come from St Anthony> She took e to Lourdes and Knock in the attempt to cure me of Asthma when I had this bad as a child, seriously, that to me is devout

To me, devout means that they take their religion very seriously, and perhaps follow the Bible to the letter. I would say that someone who believes on religious grounds that gayness is wrong is devout.

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:Okay so around 83% of Northern Ireland is Christian, which leaves the options of chancing upon a bakery owner by someone non-religious unlikely. We then have to take into account how religious the people who are Christian are in Ireland, if they are practicing Christians. It really is a matter of pot luck. So to claim this is a set up in a very Christian area is very absurd to say the least. At the end of the day all we know is he went to have a cake done for a wedding. You could argue for him to find a place with owners of non-religious affiliation, but why on earth should he in this day and age?

You might guess they are Christian off their website:

Why Ashers? Well, contrary to popular opinion we are not called Mr & Mrs Asher. Our name comes from the Bible. Asher was a tribe of Israel who had many skilled bakers and created bread fit for a king.


They may have only written that as mere advertizement to garner people to come to claim such biblical evidence to associate with a Hebrew Tribe long since lost I might add to history. So are they devout Christians?

And what do we do when we’re not baking? Well, we love to travel and see what’s happening on the bakery scene in other countries. Then we bring back some great ideas from our adventures and mix them up in the bakery, so there’s always something new for you to try. 


http://www.ashersbakingco.com/about/



Not really a glowing reference to any sign of devoutness there.

So if one was looking for bakery run by devout Christians, it would be easy to identify that particular one ...

By the way, you can be a practising Christian and still not have anything against gayness.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:


lol I am sure you are Rags, but lets face it less people are practicing Christians today, though granted you will certainly find more in Ireland, but devout? My parents are devout and go to church everyday. She has a small bone that she claims to have come from St Anthony> She took e to Lourdes and Knock in the attempt to cure me of Asthma when I had this bad as a child, seriously, that to me is devout

To me, devout means that they take their religion very seriously, and perhaps follow the Bible to the letter. I would say that someone who believes on religious grounds that gayness is wrong is devout.

That is taking religion seriously as a Catholic, my mum still goes everyday, on her own to church and even prays for me, knowing I am athiest. Devout is in every aspect to a christian practicing that faith.
I would differ that they are devout, say if they knowingly served say a person known to them who has committed adultery, of which would certainly happen and this is the point. I bet they would be lapse or far more relaxed in their beliefs in other areas.

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

To me, devout means that they take their religion very seriously, and perhaps follow the Bible to the letter. I would say that someone who believes on religious grounds that gayness is wrong is devout.

That is taking religion seriously as a Catholic, my mum still goes everyday, on her own to church and even prays for me, knowing I am athiest. Devout is in every aspect to a christian practicing that faith.
I would differ that they are devout, say if they knowingly served say a person known to them who has committed adultery, of which would certainly happen and this is the point. I bet they would be lapse or far more relaxed in their beliefs in other areas.

Oh for goodness sake, I was talking about the likelihood that they might have something against gayness, I'm not talking about their whole lifestyle.

I hope we're not going to go round in circles as to the meaning of "devout".

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:Okay so around 83% of Northern Ireland is Christian, which leaves the options of chancing upon a bakery owner by someone non-religious unlikely. We then have to take into account how religious the people who are Christian are in Ireland, if they are practicing Christians. It really is a matter of pot luck. So to claim this is a set up in a very Christian area is very absurd to say the least. At the end of the day all we know is he went to have a cake done for a wedding. You could argue for him to find a place with owners of non-religious affiliation, but why on earth should he in this day and age?

You might guess they are Christian off their website:

Why Ashers? Well, contrary to popular opinion we are not called Mr & Mrs Asher. Our name comes from the Bible. Asher was a tribe of Israel who had many skilled bakers and created bread fit for a king.


They may have only written that as mere advertizement to garner people to come to claim such biblical evidence to associate with a Hebrew Tribe long since lost I might add to history. So are they devout Christians?

And what do we do when we’re not baking? Well, we love to travel and see what’s happening on the bakery scene in other countries. Then we bring back some great ideas from our adventures and mix them up in the bakery, so there’s always something new for you to try. 


http://www.ashersbakingco.com/about/



Not really a glowing reference to any sign of devoutness there.

So if one was looking for bakery run by devout Christians, it would be easy to identify that particular one ...

By the way, you can be a practising Christian and still not have anything against gayness.

From their website, you could not even tell they are devout at all?
What does it say they do in their spare time?
I see nothing that points to them being devout!
That is correct there is no many Christians, my mother included who is not opposed to homosexuality

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:


That is taking religion seriously as a Catholic, my mum still goes everyday, on her own to church and even prays for me, knowing I am athiest. Devout is in every aspect to a christian practicing that faith.
I would differ that they are devout, say if they knowingly served say a person known to them who has committed adultery, of which would certainly happen and this is the point. I bet they would be lapse or far more relaxed in their beliefs in other areas.

Oh for goodness sake, I was talking about the likelihood that they might have something against gayness, I'm not talking about their whole lifestyle.

I hope we're not going to go round in circles as to the meaning of "devout".

The point is how many other aspects that would be constituted as a sin to them, would they also refuse to create a cake about?

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:



So if one was looking for bakery run by devout Christians, it would be easy to identify that particular one ...

By the way, you can be a practising Christian and still not have anything against gayness.

From their website, you could not even tell they are devout at all?
What does it say they do in their spare time?
I see nothing that points to them being devout!
That is correct there is no many Christians, my mother included who is not opposed to homosexuality

The fact that they took their name from the Bible is a bit of a clue ...

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh for goodness sake, I was talking about the likelihood that they might have something against gayness, I'm not talking about their whole lifestyle.

I hope we're not going to go round in circles as to the meaning of "devout".

The point is how many other aspects that would be constituted as a sin to them, would they also refuse to create a cake about?

They have apparently refused to decorate cakes with "lewd images" and "foul language".

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:


From their website, you could not even tell they are devout at all?
What does it say they do in their spare time?
I see nothing that points to them being devout!
That is correct there is no many Christians, my mother included who is not opposed to homosexuality

The fact that they took their name from the Bible is a bit of a clue ...

Again that could only be advertizement to catch customers, it does not mean they would be, you are second guessing, as it can be easily explained. That is the only mention of something connected to their faith and it is more about how this tribe were great bakers, which is the selling point they are using

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:


The point is how many other aspects that would be constituted as a sin to them, would they also refuse to create a cake about?

They have apparently refused to decorate cakes with "lewd images" and "foul language".

Have not seen that, but will take your word for this. I would be more interested if they refused people for other types of sins

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The fact that they took their name from the Bible is a bit of a clue ...

Again that could only be advertizement to catch customers, it does not mean they would be, you are second guessing, as it can be easily explained. That is the only mention of something connected to their faith and it is more about how this tribe were great bakers, which is the selling point they are using

I'm not stating anything as fact, I'm just thinking about all possibilities.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:


Again that could only be advertizement to catch customers, it does not mean they would be, you are second guessing, as it can be easily explained. That is the only mention of something connected to their faith and it is more about how this tribe were great bakers, which is the selling point they are using

I'm not stating anything as fact, I'm just thinking about all possibilities.

So am I, just as I think the claims to a set up are so poor, we have no real idea if they are devout. Its all very much second guessing Rags

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm not stating anything as fact, I'm just thinking about all possibilities.

So am I, just as I think the claims to a set up are so poor, we have no real idea if they are devout. Its all very much second guessing Rags

Well Dean and Quill put the idea into my head in the first place.

I still say that someone who thinks gayness is a sin is devout. I'm not arguing about it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:


So am I, just as I think the claims to a set up are so poor, we have no real idea if they are devout. Its all very much second guessing Rags

Well Dean and Quill put the idea into my head in the first place.

I still say that someone who thinks gayness is a sin is devout. I'm not arguing about it.

I get your point like I say, my mum is very devout, but is lax on homosexuality with her faith, but then she is very forgiving and takes the view to forgive everyone.

I think there are plenty of people who hate homosexuals and who would whether their religion told them to or not, to be fair.

Ben_Reilly wrote:I think there are plenty of people who hate homosexuals and who would whether their religion told them to or not, to be fair.

Yes - thank you for pointing out that it's not necessarily a religious thing, as is so often supposed.

We are talking about religion in this particular case though.

The recipient of the cake wasn't very happy about it going to court apparently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32053610?utm_source=Daily+Media+Digest&utm_campaign=f1c05ae709-&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_296e14724b-f1c05ae709-248610269&ct=t%28%29