Christian bakery guilty of discrimination over gay marriage cake refusal

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:12 pm

A Christian-owned bakery that refused to make a cake carrying a pro-gay marriage slogan has been found guilty of discrimination after a landmark legal action.
The Northern Ireland Equality Commission brought the case against Ashers Baking Company on behalf of Gareth Lee, the gay rights activist whose order was declined.
Giving her ruling at Belfast County Court on Tuesday, district judge Isobel Brownlie said: "The defendants have unlawfully discriminated against the plaintiff on grounds of sexual discrimination. "This is direct discrimination for which there can be no justification."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11614694/Christian-bakery-guilty-of-discrimination-over-gay-marriage-cake-refusal.html

The important part:

Giving evidence, Mr Lee claimed he was left feeling like a lesser person when his order, which was paid in full, was turned down two days after being initially accepted.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:14 pm

this is disgusting they should not have to make anything that they do not agree with, would a company get sued for wanting a cake with klu klux clan on...

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:15 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:this is disgusting they should not have to make anything that they do not agree with, would a company get sued for wanting a cake with klu klux clan on...

which was paid in full, was turned down two days after being initially accepted.

Judge Brownlie said she was satisfied the McArthur family had "genuine and deeply held religious beliefs" but said they must have been aware that Mr Lee was gay and were aware of the ongoing same sex marriage debate.
The judge added: "They must have known or had the perception that the plaintiff was gay. They must have known that the plaintiff supported gay marriage or associated with others who supported gay marriage."

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:21 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:this is disgusting they should not have to make anything that they do not agree with, would a company get sued for wanting a cake with klu klux clan on...

which was paid in full, was turned down two days after being initially accepted.

Judge Brownlie said she was satisfied the McArthur family had "genuine and deeply held religious beliefs" but said they must have been aware that Mr Lee was gay and were aware of the ongoing same sex marriage debate.
The judge added: "They must have known or had the perception that the plaintiff was gay. They must have known that the plaintiff supported gay marriage or associated with others who supported gay marriage."

how did they know did he have an i'm a queer badge on and support of gay marriage does not mean you are gay...

sounds like another case of a queer attacking a Christian company...

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:23 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

which was paid in full, was turned down two days after being initially accepted.

Judge Brownlie said she was satisfied the McArthur family had "genuine and deeply held religious beliefs" but said they must have been aware that Mr Lee was gay and were aware of the ongoing same sex marriage debate.
The judge added: "They must have known or had the perception that the plaintiff was gay. They must have known that the plaintiff supported gay marriage or associated with others who supported gay marriage."
how did they know did he have an i'm a queer badge on and support of gay marriage does not mean you are gay...

sounds like another case of a queer attacking a Christian company...

I think what he requested for the cake was the dead giveaway myself.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:24 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
how did they know did he have an i'm a queer badge on and support of gay marriage does not mean you are gay...

sounds like another case of a queer attacking a Christian company...

I think what he requested for the cake was the dead giveaway myself.

so are you saying only queers support same sex marriages???

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:26 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

I think what he requested for the cake was the dead giveaway myself.
so are you saying only queers support same sex marriages???

Like I say, I think the cake was the giveaway, do you not think so, as why else did they then later refuse to make the cake?
In your own time please

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:29 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
so are you saying only queers support same sex marriages???

Like I say, I think the cake was the giveaway, do you not think so, as why else did they then later refuse to make the cake?
In your own time please

same question are you saying only queers support same sex marriage, if that is the case why are we pandering to less than 3% of the country?

could the cake have been for someone else??? could he have been a caterer or party planner?

it's another case of militant queers doing what they do..

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:31 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Like I say, I think the cake was the giveaway, do you not think so, as why else did they then later refuse to make the cake?
In your own time please
same question are you saying only queers support same sex marriage, if that is the case why are we pandering to less than 3% of the country?

could the cake have been for someone else??? could he have been a caterer or party planner?

it's another case of militant queers doing what they do..

No I support gay marriage and I am hetrosexual.
Many hetrosexuals support gay marriage I think you will find.
You asked how did they know, when it was obvious that the religious couple knew and even elude to saying they did know.
It does not matter if the cake was for someone else, that has no relevance.
They refused to make the cake based off what was going to be on the cake.

by Eilzel Tue May 19, 2015 3:35 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
same question are you saying only queers support same sex marriage, if that is the case why are we pandering to less than 3% of the country?

could the cake have been for someone else??? could he have been a caterer or party planner?

it's another case of militant queers doing what they do..

No I support gay marriage and I am hetrosexual.
Many hetrosexuals support gay marriage I think you will find.
You asked how did they know, when it was obvious that the religious couple knew and even elude to saying they did know.
It does not matter if the cake was for someone else, that has no relevance.
They refused to make the cake based off what was going to be on the cake.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:35 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
same question are you saying only queers support same sex marriage, if that is the case why are we pandering to less than 3% of the country?

could the cake have been for someone else??? could he have been a caterer or party planner?

it's another case of militant queers doing what they do..

No I support gay marriage and I am hetrosexual.
Many hetrosexuals support gay marriage I think you will find.
You asked how did they know, when it was obvious that the religious couple knew and even elude to saying they did know.
It does not matter if the cake was for someone else, that has no relevance.
They refused to make the cake based off what was going to be on the cake.

so if you went to get a cake that says queers rock is it fair to me assume your are a queer?? or would that be discrimination...

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:38 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

No I support gay marriage and I am hetrosexual.
Many hetrosexuals support gay marriage I think you will find.
You asked how did they know, when it was obvious that the religious couple knew and even elude to saying they did know.
It does not matter if the cake was for someone else, that has no relevance.
They refused to make the cake based off what was going to be on the cake.
so if you went to get a cake that says queers rock is it fair to me assume your are a queer?? or would that be discrimination...

Why would I go to get a cake like that?
Again irrlevant to the point the religious couple clearly knew the person was gay based off what he asked to be put on the cake.
Why not actually read the article and stop wasting me time as its all in there.

by Eilzel Tue May 19, 2015 3:40 pm

I'd say most heterosexuals support same-sex marriage Smile

And of course they were ridiculous to refuse, nowhere does it say you cannot bake a fucking cake with inoffensive words on it- idiots.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:42 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
so if you went to get a cake that says queers rock is it fair to me assume your are a queer?? or would that be discrimination...

Why would I go to get a cake like that?
Again irrlevant to the point the religious couple clearly knew the person was gay based off what he asked to be put on the cake.
Why not actually read the article and stop wasting me time as its all in there.

you said they should have known he was queer it should have been obvious, what by his speech, did he have a lisp or a high pitched queer voice, his walk did he walk like he was chewing a toffee with his back side...
what about their rights as Christians to not have to make something they disagree with, why isn't that wrong, because for some reason the rights of queers have become more important than the rights of normal people but I guess that's what happens with discrimination s the rights of one rises the rights of another drops.
I wonder what would be the outcome if the miltant queer walked in to a Muslim bakers cos he liked halal..??

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:44 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Why would I go to get a cake like that?
Again irrlevant to the point the religious couple clearly knew the person was gay based off what he asked to be put on the cake.
Why not actually read the article and stop wasting me time as its all in there.
you said they should have known he was queer it should have been obvious, what by his speech, did he have a lisp or a high pitched queer voice, his walk did he walk like he was chewing a toffee with his back side...
what about their rights as Christians to not have to make something they disagree with, why isn't that wrong, because for some reason the rights of queers have become more important than the rights of normal people but I guess that's what happens with discrimination s the rights of one rises the rights of another drops.
I wonder what would be the outcome if the miltant queer walked in to a Muslim bakers cos he liked halal..??

No you asked that point how they knew.
Reading the article and by their own admission they knew.
Hence why you get confused easily.
They accepted to make the cake and took his money and then two days later refused him. That is discrmination.
Also how is making a cake for someone a sin?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:52 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
you said they should have known he was queer it should have been obvious, what by his speech, did he have a lisp or a high pitched queer voice, his walk did he walk like he was chewing a toffee with his back side...
what about their rights as Christians to not have to make something they disagree with, why isn't that wrong, because for some reason the rights of queers have become more important than the rights of normal people but I guess that's what happens with discrimination s the rights of one rises the rights of another drops.
I wonder what would be the outcome if the miltant queer walked in to a Muslim bakers cos he liked halal..??

No you asked that point how they knew.
Reading the article and by their own admission they knew.
Hence why you get confused easily.
They accepted to make the cake and took his money and then two days later refused him. That is discrmination.
Also how is making a cake for someone a sin?

no you said they should have known, suing them for not agreeing with queers marrying is discrimination but I guess you cannot sue a judge easily..

if they strongly disagree with something you should have the right to say I do not want to make that but for some reason the rights of a few queers over write the rights of the normal people..

let's hope the guy goes to a Muslim baker for the same cake.....

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:53 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
how did they know did he have an i'm a queer badge on and support of gay marriage does not mean you are gay...

sounds like another case of a queer attacking a Christian company...

I think what he requested for the cake was the dead giveaway myself.

Just to show HF cannot see what he originally asked.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:53 pm

Again how is it a sin to make a cake for anyone?

by Original Quill Tue May 19, 2015 3:56 pm

HF wrote:you said they should have known he was queer it should have been obvious, what by his speech, did he have a lisp or a high pitched queer voice, his walk did he walk like he was chewing a toffee with his back side...

Christian bakery guilty of discrimination over gay marriage cake refusal Bert_ernie_2967284a

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:57 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:Again how is it a sin to make a cake for anyone?

do you think the cake is the issue, do you think they had a problem with the egss not being free range?

by Original Quill Tue May 19, 2015 3:59 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:Again how is it a sin to make a cake for anyone?
do you think the cake is the issue, do you think they had a problem with the egss not being free range?

All gay eggs are free range.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:00 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:Again how is it a sin to make a cake for anyone?
do you think the cake is the issue, do you think they had a problem with the egss not being free range?

Again I am asking is it is a sin to make a cake for anyone?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:02 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
how did they know did he have an i'm a queer badge on and support of gay marriage does not mean you are gay...

sounds like another case of a queer attacking a Christian company...

I think what he requested for the cake was the dead giveaway myself.

which should be their right to refuse to make the cake as it went against their faith , this is wrong and where are the rights of the Christian bakery ?

Do you think a Muslim bakery would have been approached to have a cake made with the gay flag or whatever it is they wanted ?

It's a valid question too because i personally think gay people are going out of their way to target Christians so they can stamp their feet and cry discrimination .

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:03 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
do you think the cake is the issue, do you think they had a problem with the egss not being free range?

Again I am asking is it is a sin to make a cake for anyone?

It's a sin for gay people to intentionally target Christians knowing full well they may have strong beliefs against homosexuality, this is wrong and anyone with any fairness should be disagreeing with gays targeting Christians .

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:05 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

I think what he requested for the cake was the dead giveaway myself.

which should be their right to refuse to make the cake as it went against their faith , this is wrong and where are the rights of the Christian bakery ?

Do you think a Muslim bakery would have been approached to have a cake made with the gay flag or whatever it is they wanted ?

It's a valid question too because i personally think gay people are going out of their way to target Christians so they can stamp their feet and cry discrimination .

exactly right about the rights of Christians, you are right again that the queers wouldn't try it on a Muslim bakery...
they shout about equal rights and then want it there own way...

by Original Quill Tue May 19, 2015 4:06 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
do you think the cake is the issue, do you think they had a problem with the egss not being free range?

Again I am asking is it is a sin to make a cake for anyone?

That's an interesting question. The argument is not that it is a violation of Canon law, but more loosely, is it against (your) religious belief. What is that?

Should the law be able to force this baker (or anyone) to take a test in order to determine if his religious objections are authentic? If so, what should be on the test?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:07 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

I think what he requested for the cake was the dead giveaway myself.

which should be their right to refuse to make the cake as it went against their faith , this is wrong and where are the rights of the Christian bakery ?

Do you think a Muslim bakery would have been approached to have a cake made with the gay flag or whatever it is they wanted ?

It's a valid question too because i personally think gay people are going out of their way to target Christians so they can stamp their feet and cry discrimination .

They did accept and then refused.
If a Muslim did this also they would be wrong.
So I shall ask you some very important questions.

Is it a sin for a Christian to serve a homosexual?
Is it a sin for a Christian to seve an adulterer?
is it a sin to make a cake for anyone?

by Raggamuffin Tue May 19, 2015 4:09 pm

An interesting case. The problem wasn't with the person asking for the cake, it was with the message on the cake. If I had a bakery, I wouldn't want to put something like "support hunting with dogs" on a cake, or "support halal".

If they had refused to make a cake for someone just because they were gay, I think that would be quite hurtful though.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:09 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

Again I am asking is it is a sin to make a cake for anyone?

That's an interesting question. The argument is not that it is a violation of Canon law, but more loosely, is it against (your) religious belief. What is that?

Should the law be able to force this baker (or anyone) to take a test in order to determine if his religious objections are authentic? If so, what should be on the test?

Which is the point here as what violation of Christianity is happenning here?
Does the same aplly to other aspects that would be viewed as a sin to serve someone?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:10 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

which should be their right to refuse to make the cake as it went against their faith , this is wrong and where are the rights of the Christian bakery ?

Do you think a Muslim bakery would have been approached to have a cake made with the gay flag or whatever it is they wanted ?

It's a valid question too because i personally think gay people are going out of their way to target Christians so they can stamp their feet and cry discrimination .

They did accept and then refused.
If a Muslim did this also they would be wrong.
So I shall ask you some very important questions.

Is it a sin for a Christian to serve a homosexual?
Is it a sin for a Christian to seve an adulterer?
is it a sin to make a cake for anyone?

So is it a sin to change ones mind ?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:12 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

They did accept and then refused.
If a Muslim did this also they would be wrong.
So I shall ask you some very important questions.

Is it a sin for a Christian to serve a homosexual?
Is it a sin for a Christian to seve an adulterer?
is it a sin to make a cake for anyone?

So is it a sin to change ones mind ?

I have no idea, you tell me?
Again
Is it a sin for a Christian to serve a homosexual?
Is it a sin for a Christian to seve an adulterer?
is it a sin to make a cake for anyone?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:12 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:An interesting case. The problem wasn't with the person asking for the cake, it was with the message on the cake. If I had a bakery, I wouldn't want to put something like "support hunting with dogs" on a cake, or "support halal".

If they had refused to make a cake for someone just because they were gay, I think that would be quite hurtful though.

Yes that's true but is it hurtful enough to sue them ?

by Raggamuffin Tue May 19, 2015 4:13 pm

It was apparently discrimination re political beliefs too - how does that work then? Would it be against the law to refuse to put "support the Tories" on a cake?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:15 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

So is it a sin to change ones mind ?

I have no idea, you tell me?
Again
Is it a sin for a Christian to serve a homosexual?
Is it a sin for a Christian to seve an adulterer?
is it a sin to make a cake for anyone?

shut up with the questions you silly moo , this isn't about them being homosexual it is about what this Christian baker believed, the gays knew what they were doing just the same as the B&B gay couple .

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:15 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:An interesting case. The problem wasn't with the person asking for the cake, it was with the message on the cake. If I had a bakery, I wouldn't want to put something like "support hunting with dogs" on a cake, or "support halal".

If they had refused to make a cake for someone just because they were gay, I think that would be quite hurtful though.

That is an interesting point Rags.
This was no small company, they had 80 staff and if this directly effected someone personally, could not someone else have made the cake?
It is a business after all is it not and this is not going to bode well for business if people declines people all the time. I see your point. The fact is though they did accept and took payment to then two days later decline.

by Raggamuffin Tue May 19, 2015 4:15 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:An interesting case. The problem wasn't with the person asking for the cake, it was with the message on the cake. If I had a bakery, I wouldn't want to put something like "support hunting with dogs" on a cake, or "support halal".

If they had refused to make a cake for someone just because they were gay, I think that would be quite hurtful though.

Yes that's true but is it hurtful enough to sue them ?

I don't know really.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:16 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

I have no idea, you tell me?
Again
Is it a sin for a Christian to serve a homosexual?
Is it a sin for a Christian to seve an adulterer?
is it a sin to make a cake for anyone?

shut up with the questions you silly moo , this isn't about them being homosexual it is about what this Christian baker believed, the gays knew what they were doing just the same as the B&B gay couple .

What is with being rude?
I am asking you a question, if you cannot answer then just say so.
So now you believe it is a conspiracy, based on no evidence then?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:18 pm

what it says in essence is "it's really nice that you want to be a Christian and believe what you want but we will not give you the right to practice what you believe"

but to Muslims you can.... that is discimination...

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:20 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

shut up with the questions you silly moo , this isn't about them being homosexual it is about what this Christian baker believed, the gays knew what they were doing just the same as the B&B gay couple .

What is with being rude?
I am asking you a question, if you cannot answer then just say so.
So now you believe it is a conspiracy, based on no evidence then?

shut up again you silly moo, this isn't class you are not a teacher, this is debate we put our thoughts and beliefs across it isn't a 20 questions game .

I'm not being rude im saying shut up trying to force questions on other posters .

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:21 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Yes that's true but is it hurtful enough to sue them ?

I don't know really.

why should it be hurtful in both cases you do not agree with the statement, what is the difference...

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:21 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:what it says in essence is "it's really nice that you want to be a Christian and believe what you want but we will not give you the right to practice what you believe"

but to Muslims you can.... that is discimination...

Believe?
What is the belief here?
To not serve customers because of who they are?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:22 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:what it says in essence is "it's really nice that you want to be a Christian and believe what you want but we will not give you the right to practice what you believe"

but to Muslims you can.... that is discimination...

yes that's right and they wouldn't dare approach a Muslim bakery

by Raggamuffin Tue May 19, 2015 4:22 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:An interesting case. The problem wasn't with the person asking for the cake, it was with the message on the cake. If I had a bakery, I wouldn't want to put something like "support hunting with dogs" on a cake, or "support halal".

If they had refused to make a cake for someone just because they were gay, I think that would be quite hurtful though.

That is an interesting point Rags.
This was no small company, they had 80 staff and if this directly effected someone personally, could not someone else have made the cake?
It is a business after all is it not and this is not going to bode well for business if people declines people all the time. I see your point. The fact is though they did accept and took payment to then two days later decline.

I would have thought someone else could have made the cake, yes. I'm all in favour of compromise when it comes to this kind of thing.

It must be terribly difficult to hold this view that gayness is a sin - hard work really.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:22 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

What is with being rude?
I am asking you a question, if you cannot answer then just say so.
So now you believe it is a conspiracy, based on no evidence then?

shut up again you silly moo, this isn't class you are not a teacher, this is debate we put our thoughts and beliefs across it isn't a 20 questions game .

I'm not being rude im saying shut up trying to force questions on other posters .

iSorry to disappoint you, but no I will not shut up.
Nothing is being forced on you, either you answer them or you do not.
If you do not you just lose further credability to your points
So not concerned either way really.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:22 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

shut up with the questions you silly moo , this isn't about them being homosexual it is about what this Christian baker believed, the gays knew what they were doing just the same as the B&B gay couple .

What is with being rude?
I am asking you a question, if you cannot answer then just say so.
So now you believe it is a conspiracy, based on no evidence then?

she is not being rude and she will answer what she likes so shut your cake hole, a statement which fits thise case perfectly...

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:24 pm

Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

shut up again you silly moo, this isn't class you are not a teacher, this is debate we put our thoughts and beliefs across it isn't a 20 questions game .

I'm not being rude im saying shut up trying to force questions on other posters .

iSorry to disappoint you, but no I will not shut up.
Nothing is being forced on you, either you answer them or you do not.
If you do not you just lose further credability to your points
So not concerned either way really.

no one loses credibility by not answering you they may lose their sanity if they do.... Smile

by Raggamuffin Tue May 19, 2015 4:25 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't know really.
why should it be hurtful in both cases you do not agree with the statement, what is the difference...

I'm just thinking about a gay chap I used to know - we were good friends, and the idea that someone could refuse to serve him because he was gay is quite awful.

Les (?) who posts on here - I've had a few run ins with him generally, but he seems like a nice chap. I wouldn't like to think of anyone upsetting him because he's gay.

I'm not really a fan of people suing every five minutes, but I guess that sometimes it's the only way to get your point across.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:25 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

That is an interesting point Rags.
This was no small company, they had 80 staff and if this directly effected someone personally, could not someone else have made the cake?
It is a business after all is it not and this is not going to bode well for business if people declines people all the time. I see your point. The fact is though they did accept and took payment to then two days later decline.

I would have thought someone else could have made the cake, yes. I'm all in favour of compromise when it comes to this kind of thing.

It must be terribly difficult to hold this view that gayness is a sin - hard work really.

I think the issue here was more on Gay marriage, which I understand some religious people will object to, but they did have 80 staff. I just find it silly if you do have a buisness why you could end up costing yourself customers.
I think the judge got this right, even more so if they did accept the money.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:26 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

iSorry to disappoint you, but no I will not shut up.
Nothing is being forced on you, either you answer them or you do not.
If you do not you just lose further credability to your points
So not concerned either way really.
no one loses credibility by not answering you they may lose their sanity if they do....

They do to valid points.
Hey ho, Its what is called a debate.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:27 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Lucifer Angel of Light wrote:

What is with being rude?
I am asking you a question, if you cannot answer then just say so.
So now you believe it is a conspiracy, based on no evidence then?
she is not being rude and she will answer what she likes so shut your cake hole, a statement which fits thise case perfectly...

Sorry to disappoint again, but no, I am not going to shut up.
This is a debate I suggest you get used to that

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