I'm not British but I live here and pay my taxes. Shouldn't I have a vote in the EU referendum?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 2:59 pm

An Italian asks why long-term British residents like her should be denied a vote on Britain's place in the European Union:

There is concern among Eurosceptic MPs about the possibility of 1.5 million EU citizens residing in the UK being granted a vote in David Cameron's EU Referendum, depending on which electoral register is used in that vote.
EU citizens like me are not on the General Election voter register but we appear on a separate electoral register for local council and European Parliament elections.
The franchise for the referendum won’t be decided for some months but it promises to be one of the trickiest aspects of deciding what it means to have a ‘full and fair’ referendum, to use Nigel Farage’s expression.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11614826/Im-not-British-but-I-live-here-and-pay-my-taxes.-Shouldnt-I-have-a-vote-in-the-EU-referendum.html

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 3:21 pm

No, it is a British constitutional issue for British people to decide.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:23 pm

no they shouldn't get to vote in the same way people in jail should not get to vote on anything to do with lessing sentences of criminals...

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:23 pm

NO

as above

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:24 pm

So the definition of irony

Two UKIP supporters who moan about being denied their democratic right to vote to be in the EU. Wish to deny the vote to people who work and pay into society who the outcome of such a referendum will effect their furture.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:26 pm

It is , as Tommy says , a constitutional matter...

which in fact rates "higher" on the scale than does a General election

she isnt entitled to vote on ge issues

so she certainly isnt entitled to vote on an E.U referendum

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:27 pm

and quite frankly ..if she dont like it...she knows where the ferry goes from....

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:28 pm

darknessss wrote:It is , as Tommy says , a constitutional matter...

which in fact rates "higher" on the scale than does a General election

she isnt entitled to vote on ge issues

so she certainly isnt entitled to vote on an E.U referendum

Its a matter that directly could effect her life.
She has every right to vote.

by Eilzel Tue May 19, 2015 3:30 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:no they shouldn't get to vote in the same way people in jail should not get to vote on anything to do with lessing sentences of criminals...

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:34 pm

i would say yes as they pay taxes hear
using the logic displayed above the English people living in Scotland should not have had a vote on Scottish independence

ps And English people living abroad should not be voting in the GE

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:35 pm

Eilzel wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:no they shouldn't get to vote in the same way people in jail should not get to vote on anything to do with lessing sentences of criminals...

Not sure i understood that either.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:40 pm

korban dallas wrote:i would say yes as they pay taxes hear
using the logic displayed above the English people living in Scotland should not have had a vote on Scottish independence

ps And English people living abroad should not be voting in the GE

Good point

They should have the right to vote as it will directly effect them.

by Eilzel Tue May 19, 2015 3:42 pm

A European working here is utterly incomparable to a prisoner who violated another person's rights.

In fairness to the Italian, her life could be turned upside down by a Brexit...

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:43 pm

Eilzel wrote:A European working here is utterly incomparable to a prisoner who violated another person's rights.

In fairness to the Italian, her life could be turned upside down by a Brexit...

they have chosen to work here or live here but it is not their country, they should not vote on its laws...

by Eilzel Tue May 19, 2015 3:45 pm

Totally disagree in expats KD; we are or can be effected by laws made in Britain- we have every right to vote in the GE regardless of the fact we aren't living there at the time. We may have to pay taxes, have property effected, families in the UK or pensions which can all be affected by UK government. No way should we lose the vote as expats.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:46 pm

Eilzel wrote:Totally disagree in expats KD; we are or can be effected by laws made in Britain- we have every right to vote in the GE regardless of the fact we aren't living there at the time. We may have to pay taxes, have property effected, families in the UK or pensions which can all be affected by UK government. No way should we lose the vote as expats.

fair point

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:48 pm

Eilzel wrote:Totally disagree in expats KD; we are or can be effected by laws made in Britain- we have every right to vote in the GE regardless of the fact we aren't living there at the time. We may have to pay taxes, have property effected, families in the UK or pensions which can all be affected by UK government. No way should we lose the vote as expats.

totally disagree you chose where to live , if you chose not to live here you should have no vote in what happens here...
international companies have a vested interest in the country should they all get a vote.

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 3:51 pm

English MPs cannot vote on many issues that only affect Scotland but Scottish MPs can still vote on issues that only affect England.

This is due to change to prevent this.

As an EU national, they have the right to vote for EU MEPs wherever they are in the EU, but they don't get to vote in gen elections as that is only for the nationals of that country and They should certainly not be able to vote on national constitutional affairs.

We cannot have EU nationals coming here to vote on our national issues.

If that is allowed then what's to stop other EU nationals flooding into the country just to vote in our referendum And swaying the vote?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:52 pm

Eilzel wrote:Totally disagree in expats KD; we are or can be effected by laws made in Britain- we have every right to vote in the GE regardless of the fact we aren't living there at the time. We may have to pay taxes, have property effected, families in the UK or pensions which can all be affected by UK government. No way should we lose the vote as expats.

Good points and why even more those foreign here who are going to be directly effected by this vote, should be able to vote. As it woudl certainly not be deemed as democratic, if people involved do not have a say.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 3:59 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:English MPs cannot vote on many issues that only affect Scotland but Scottish MPs can still vote on issues that only affect England.

This is due to change to prevent this.

As an EU national, they have the right to vote for EU MEPs wherever they are in the EU, but they don't get to vote in gen elections as that is only for the nationals of that country and They should certainly not be able to vote on national constitutional affairs.

We cannot have EU nationals coming here to vote on our national issues.

If that is allowed then what's to stop other EU nationals flooding into the country just to vote in our referendum And swaying the vote?

Don't go adding sense to the thread Tommy it will make didges head spin... Smile

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 4:01 pm

Eilzel wrote:Totally disagree in expats KD; we are or can be effected by laws made in Britain- we have every right to vote in the GE regardless of the fact we aren't living there at the time. We may have to pay taxes, have property effected, families in the UK or pensions which can all be affected by UK government. No way should we lose the vote as expats.

You either retain your national status and right to vote in that country or you become a national of another country and become eligible to vote in their national matters.

EU nationals here retain their national identity and rights to vote in their own national affairs.

They don't qualify to vote in our national affairs.

A national referendum on our continued membership of the EU is a matter for British nationals to decide.

We already had this debate yesterday and people overwhelmingly said it is for British nationals to decide British national affairs.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:English MPs cannot vote on many issues that only affect Scotland but Scottish MPs can still vote on issues that only affect England.

This is due to change to prevent this.

As an EU national, they have the right to vote for EU MEPs wherever they are in the EU, but they don't get to vote in gen elections as that is only for the nationals of that country and They should certainly not be able to vote on national constitutional affairs.

We cannot have EU nationals coming here to vote on our national issues.

If that is allowed then what's to stop other EU nationals flooding into the country just to vote in our referendum And swaying the vote?

well given immigration has tippled i think under cameron not a lot i guess

my mistake a 41% increase

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 4:07 pm

Impossible to control as we have open door to half a billion people as signed away by the last labour govt...

That is why we need a referendum on EU as free movement is a non negotiable part of EU membership and the only way to regain control of our borders is to get out.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:17 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Impossible to control as we have open door to half a billion people as signed away by the last labour govt...

That is why we need a referendum on EU as free movement is a non negotiable part of EU membership and the only way to regain control of our borders is to get out.

labour wasn`t in government and David Cameron’s pledge was to reduce it to the tens of thousands are you saying he lied ??

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 4:23 pm

Which was impossible to do as lib dems were also in govt and blocked any chance of a referendum or a cap on numbers etc... it was labour who opened us up to more EU and more free movement back in 2003...

And why I'm glad UKIP are here to keep a close eye on proceedings and to ensure that we are not given another stitch up referendum...

It is not going to be a fair vote for the British people if millions of EU nationals who are only here because of the EU and who will then obviously support the EU, are also allowed to decide on British membership.

It is a British constitutional matter for British nationals to decide.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:23 pm

in fact the case could be made labor had better control over immigration that the conservatives seem to have after all it was 41% lower under labor

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 4:29 pm

Fuck off!!!

lol!

I'm not British but I live here and pay my taxes. Shouldn't I have a vote in the EU referendum? Latest-im-stats

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Fuck off!!!

and to your point about the lib dems in fact when Asked specifically if he would support the Tory policy of curbing EU migration by requiring migrants to live and work in the UK for four years before claiming welfare, Mr Clegg said: “I have got no problem with the idea.”

yet a 41% increase

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 4:34 pm

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 4:40 pm

Another labour legacy... you can't control immigration while we have open door to half a billion EU people.

Labour signed us up to this... and together with The lib dems, opposed any moves to reduce the numbers.

That is why we need a referendum on the EU because free movement is a non negotiable part of it.

THe only way to regain control over our borders is to leave the EU.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 5:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Another labour legacy... you can't control immigration while we have open door to half a billion EU people.

Labour signed us up to this... and together with The lib dems, opposed any moves to reduce the numbers.

That is why we need a referendum on the EU because free movement is a non negotiable part of it.

THe only way to regain control over our borders is to leave the EU.

Yet Cameron said he would cut it to tens of thousands it was a pledge, so if he knew he couldn`t because of labour he basically lied.And i have all ready pointed out the lib dems had no problem with the cut to immigration

seems you would like to blame everybody else for the 41% increase ,And not the guy who made a pledge to cut it and instead allowed it to increase by 41%

ps

the referendum wasn`t and isn`t a cap on numbers its a in out of the EU sort of thing

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 5:25 pm

korban dallas wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Another labour legacy... you can't control immigration while we have open door to half a billion EU people.

Labour signed us up to this... and together with The lib dems, opposed any moves to reduce the numbers.

That is why we need a referendum on the EU because free movement is a non negotiable part of it.

THe only way to regain control over our borders is to leave the EU.
Yet Cameron said he would cut it to tens of thousands it was a pledge, so if he knew he couldn`t because of labour he basically lied.And i have all ready pointed out the lib dems had no problem with the cut to immigration

seems you would like to blame everybody else for the 41% increase ,And not the guy who made a pledge to cut it and instead allowed it to increase by 41%

ps

the referendum wasn`t and isn`t a cap on numbers its a in out of the EU sort of thing

he would cut it to tens of thousands, so what the hell is it now, is that 90 000 then or 99 000..
lets face it a cameron pledge isn't worth the crap it was written in...

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 5:26 pm

Labour and lib dems opposed any moves to reduce numbers.

And both opposed a referendum on the EU which could have delivered us the necessary means to end EU free movement and therefore reduce numbers.

Labour opened the taps on immigration soon as they got into govt, then they signed us into free movement to half a billion poor former communist eastern countries.

Are you in favour of continued mass immigration or against it!?

Are you in favour of continued open door to half a billion or against it!?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 5:42 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Labour and lib dems opposed any moves to reduce numbers.

And both opposed a referendum on the EU which could have delivered us the necessary means to end EU free movement and therefore reduce numbers.

Labour opened the taps on immigration soon as they got into govt, then they signed us into free movement to half a billion poor former communist eastern countries.

Are you in favour of continued mass immigration or against it!?

Are you in favour of continued open door to half a billion or against it!?

Er no thats wrong

And as i have said 3 times so far The Liberal Democrat leader said he had “no problem” with the policy

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 6:09 pm

What he said is irrelevant... the lib dems opposed moves to have a referendum or to reduce numbers of immigrants.

I notice you didn't answer the question...

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 6:23 pm

The Conservatives' 2010 election manifesto calls for "steps to take net migration back to the levels of the 1990s - tens of thousands a year, not hundreds of thousands".

However, the coalition agreement between the Conservatives and Lib Dems pledges only an "annual limit" on people coming to the UK from outside the European Union for economic reasons, making no reference to specific numbers.

Before entering power, the Lib Dems were opposed to a fixed limit on immigration and backed an amnesty for some illegal incomers already living in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13072509

2008: Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg calls for an "in-out" referendum on UK membership of the EU.

April 2010: In their election manifesto, the Lib Dems pledge to hold an "in-out" referendum the next time there is a "fundamental change" in the EU's treaty arrangements

5 March 2014: It is announced that the BBC is to host a TV debate on Britain's future in Europe between UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage - whose party is riding high in polls ahead of May's European election and who wants an immediate in/out referendum - and Nick Clegg, whose Lib Dems say they are the only "party of in" when it comes to the EU.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15390884

lol!

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 6:27 pm

Eilzel wrote:A European working here is utterly incomparable to a prisoner who violated another person's rights.

In fairness to the Italian, her life could be turned upside down by a Brexit...

They fail to grasp this and actually want to have an undemocratic vote

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 6:36 pm

It is a matter of British democracy for British people to decide!!!

Something you idiots don't seem to understand!!!

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 6:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It is a matter of British democracy for British people to decide!!!
Something you idiots don't seem to understand!!!

Its a matter for also the people working here and in many cases those who have made lives and homes here for years. They already get to vote on EU matters and this is an EU matter.
Clearly you cannot grasp something so simple

by Original Quill Tue May 19, 2015 6:39 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It is a matter of British democracy for British people to decide!!!

Something you idiots don't seem to understand!!!

All politics is interest, tommy. Democratic politics is democratic interests. Don't they have an interest?

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 6:45 pm

It is a British constitutional matter.

For British people to decide.

Not for foreign nationals to decide.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 6:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It is a British constitutional matter.
For British people to decide.
Not for foreign nationals to decide.

Its a matter for the people in this country, which effects foreigners.
Thus they have every right to vote and any EU matter which this is voted on they have a right to vote on

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 7:00 pm

Wrong!

This is a British constitutional matter for British people to decide.

Not foreign nationals to decide.

If You are not entitled to vote on national matters then you are certainly not entitled to vote on a national constitutional matter.

You might as well claim that everyone across the EU has the right to decide as it affects all of them too!!!

lol!

Get a grip dodge you bell end!!!

And I don't mean a grip of your bell end...

lol!

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 7:04 pm

I am not wrong at all, you just wish to deny people the right to vote on a matter which could very much effect the outcome of their right to be in this country. For people who have worked and paid into the system, that is the worst form of discrimination, just like many Nepalese had to endure for years, after serving in the British army. You are actively promoting discrimination again, which is no surprise really.

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 7:23 pm

Foreign nationals do not have the right to vote on our national parliamentary matters.

This is a national parliamentary issue.

If the British people had been consulted before, as we should have been, then free movement would never have been allowed anyway, nor would the transfer of all the rest of British powers to the EU.

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 7:25 pm

You just keep repeating yourself and proving you back discrimination, to people who are paying towards this society.
That is appalling and very undemocratic

by Tommy Monk Tue May 19, 2015 7:41 pm

Foreign nationals do not get to vote on our national parliament or on our national constitutional issues.

Simple fact dodge... your weasel words mean nothing...

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 7:43 pm

They get to vote on EU matters, of which this is clearly an EU issue.
Simple facts Tommy, proving how you value very little those who pay into our society.

Laters

by Raggamuffin Tue May 19, 2015 7:48 pm

Is it a question of who pays into the country then? In that case, should people who pay no tax or NI be excluded from voting?

by Guest Tue May 19, 2015 7:48 pm

Tommy Is right in tghis instance

it is NOT an E.U matter per se...

It IS soley a british constitutional matter

question ....

were foreign nationals allowed to vote on the IN referendum

I'll bet they were not....

but keep it up,
keep pushing for that

the liberalists and leftys conbined...

becasue the more this is pushed , the more people will vote NO, because they will see the whole thing (the E.U) for the fraud it is....

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