I'm sure the Conservatives won't mind paying more

First topic message reminder :



It appears quite a lot of shops are doing it lol

Irish American I believe


AND Yes here they would be a citizen too

veya_victaous wrote:Irish American I believe


AND Yes here they would be a citizen too

How's that? According to your logic, if he was born in America, he's American - nothing Irish about him.

Maybe it is The lefties who need to be paying more as it is them who keeps wanting to spend more than there is and leaving us with massive borrowing and expensive debt...

umm no raggs I'm French Australian and I just gave an example of someone with 4 legitimate racial claims
part of the "European racist attitude" is the idea that people are one thing You can be a little bit of this and a little bit of that... And Have the right to claim you are of where you were born since to say it fully I am Australian with British/French/European Decent

veya_victaous wrote:umm no raggs I'm French Australian and I just gave an example of someone with 4 legitimate racial claims
part of the "European racist attitude" is the idea that people are one thing You can be a little bit of this and a little bit of that... And Have the right to claim you are of where you were born since to say it fully I am Australian with British/French/European Decent

Any chance of you translating that into something we can understand?

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

According to the UK census form, in order to be English you must be white.

See Institutional Racism!!!!!!! or basically the UK is Officially Racist

Stop killing abbo's.

Shady wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

According to the UK census form, in order to be English you must be white.

See Institutional Racism!!!!!!! or basically the UK is Officially Racist

Stop killing abbo's.

umm we did the last person trying to enslave aboriginals was the Evil British lord Vestey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Vestey,_3rd_Baron_Vestey

The Gurindji rose to national prominence in 1966 when, led by stockman Vincent Lingiari, 200 Aboriginal employees quit slave-labour conditions at Wave Hill cattle station and walked the now National Heritage-listed Wave Hill Walk-off Route to set up a community at Wattie Creek, which they renamed Daguragu. The walk-off began a nine-year labour strike that ended with a win for Indigenous land rights.

veya_victaous wrote:umm no raggs I'm French Australian and I just gave an example of someone with 4 legitimate racial claims
part of the "European racist attitude" is the idea that people are one thing You can be a little bit of this and a little bit of that... And Have the right to claim you are of where you were born since to say it fully I am Australian with British/French/European Decent

Oh, but you said this, did you not?

Born in England means your English

Are you now saying that someone born in England is not necessarily English, or can be a mix of English and other ethnicities?

British descent? British is a legal nationality, so I don't think you can have "British descent"

Do make up your mind, and stop playing the race card.

yeah you can have British decent Over half of Australians will say they have British decent. I say British because my mum doesn't know it's just a mix of Scots Welsh Irish and English... A.k.a the Convict settlers

someone born in England is English IF they want to claim it, it is called the right to self determination..
and yes You can determine you self to be MULTIPLE things..

veya_victaous wrote:yeah you can have British decent Over half of Australians will say they have British decent. I say British because my mum doesn't know it's just a mix of Scots Welsh Irish and English... A.k.a the Convict settlers

someone born in England is English IF they want to claim it, it is called the right to self determination..
and yes You can determine you self to be MULTIPLE things..

British is a nationality, not an ethnic group, so you can't have "British descent". You can have British nationality or dual nationality of course.

I see you've changed your definition of what English is. Well you had to really as you were looking a bit bigoted what with having different "rules" for other countries.  

Someone is free to call themselves English, and another person is free to say that someone is not necessarily English just because they were born in England.

I think you guys are touching on something kind of interesting, the question of, particularly in immigrant-settled countries, when does your nationality become your ethnicity?

I mean, a lot of people here would say they're both ethnically and nationally English. But isn't that really because the Anglo-Saxons invaded so long ago that nobody remembers the country before them?

If you were to go back to their early days in England, we of today would call them something like "German British."

Someday people from Australia will probably call themselves ethnically Australian even if they're white. We have plenty white people in the U.S. who claim their ethnicity as "American," despite having no Native American ancestry.

Since I can name Tipperary ancestors who climbed off the boat in the mid-19th century and wondered what the hell was up with all the New Orleans heat and humidity, I think of Irish as part of my ethnicity, but my ancestors weren't even descended from the original people of Ireland -- very few Irish probably are, they're believed to have displaced a population before them, much like has happened in basically every country. I'm sure future members of my family will someday forget Ireland the same way the Anglo-Saxons' descendants have forgotten Saxony.

All this forefather stuff! I'm supposed to call myself "German British" because of people thousands of years ago?
Let's face it, we are the country we are born into.
That's it.
My grandparents were French Corsican but I don't really consider myself "half" or "quarter"

It's all just a bit over-egged.

eddie wrote:All this forefather stuff! I'm supposed to call myself "German British" because of people thousands of years ago?
Let's face it, we are the country we are born into.
That's it.
My grandparents were French Corsican but I don't really consider myself "half" or "quarter"

It's all just a bit over-egged.

But you say this as someone who's from a country that has no frontier, few records of ancestors landing in boats, etc. I think it's natural for people from newer countries to hold onto their original heritage for a while. I'm sure the Anglo-Saxons had grandmothers who reminded them that things were better in the "old country"

Ben_Reilly wrote:I think you guys are touching on something kind of interesting, the question of, particularly in immigrant-settled countries, when does your nationality become your ethnicity?

I mean, a lot of people here would say they're both ethnically and nationally English. But isn't that really because the Anglo-Saxons invaded so long ago that nobody remembers the country before them?

If you were to go back to their early days in England, we of today would call them something like "German British."

Someday people from Australia will probably call themselves ethnically Australian even if they're white. We have plenty white people in the U.S. who claim their ethnicity as "American," despite having no Native American ancestry.

Since I can name Tipperary ancestors who climbed off the boat in the mid-19th century and wondered what the hell was up with all the New Orleans heat and humidity, I think of Irish as part of my ethnicity, but my ancestors weren't even descended from the original people of Ireland -- very few Irish probably are, they're believed to have displaced a population before them, much like has happened in basically every country. I'm sure future members of my family will someday forget Ireland the same way the Anglo-Saxons' descendants have forgotten Saxony.

First of all, thank you for not howling about "racism" when discussing this topic.

I do find this very interesting. I've mentioned before that I frequented a forum for a little while which was mainly populated with black American people. One of the topics which came up was the use of the phrase "African American". Some of the people on there said they didn't like being described as that because they'd never been to Africa in their life!

The situation in Yugoslavia interested me largely because of the issue of someone being ethnically "Serb" even if they were born in Croatia and there were no apparent differences between them and their Croat neighbours and friends.

Some English people do indeed distinguish themselves as an ethnic group, not merely as someone who happened to be born in England or grew up in England. Someone may well say they're English even if they were not born in England - because their parents or ancestors were English. Some Scottish people do the same thing, as do Irish and Welsh people.

eddie wrote:All this forefather stuff! I'm supposed to call myself "German British" because of people thousands of years ago?
Let's face it, we are the country we are born into.
That's it.
My grandparents were French Corsican but I don't really consider myself "half" or "quarter"

It's all just a bit over-egged.

What about Gypsies or "Irish travellers"? They are a separate ethnic group in the UK, even if they have never travelled, and even if they never set foot in Ireland in their life.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:I think you guys are touching on something kind of interesting, the question of, particularly in immigrant-settled countries, when does your nationality become your ethnicity?

I mean, a lot of people here would say they're both ethnically and nationally English. But isn't that really because the Anglo-Saxons invaded so long ago that nobody remembers the country before them?

If you were to go back to their early days in England, we of today would call them something like "German British."

Someday people from Australia will probably call themselves ethnically Australian even if they're white. We have plenty white people in the U.S. who claim their ethnicity as "American," despite having no Native American ancestry.

Since I can name Tipperary ancestors who climbed off the boat in the mid-19th century and wondered what the hell was up with all the New Orleans heat and humidity, I think of Irish as part of my ethnicity, but my ancestors weren't even descended from the original people of Ireland -- very few Irish probably are, they're believed to have displaced a population before them, much like has happened in basically every country. I'm sure future members of my family will someday forget Ireland the same way the Anglo-Saxons' descendants have forgotten Saxony.

First of all, thank you for not howling about "racism" when discussing this topic.

I do find this very interesting. I've mentioned before that I frequented a forum for a little while which was mainly populated with black American people. One of the topics which came up was the use of the phrase "African American". Some of the people on there said they didn't like being described as that because they'd never been to Africa in their life!

The situation in Yugoslavia interested me largely because of the issue of someone being ethnically "Serb" even if they were born in Croatia and there were no apparent differences between them and their Croat neighbours and friends.

Some English people do indeed distinguish themselves as an ethnic group, not merely as someone who happened to be born in England or grew up in England. Someone may well say they're English even if they were not born in England - because their parents or ancestors were English. Some Scottish people do the same thing, as do Irish and Welsh people.

Sure -- so much of how we think of ourselves is shaped by our older relatives, the country we grew up in, etc. People tend to think of me as American but there are places in America that are quite foreign to me. I go to Colorado and it's fun but I don't feel at home. Honestly, I get a little on edge when I haven't seen this in a while:



That's what I identify with

Also -- I love how this thread started off as being about the "Tory Tax"

Better skyline pic:



This photo was taken from the building my dad used to work in!

Ben_Reilly wrote:Also -- I love how this thread started off as being about the "Tory Tax"

I have been on topic a lot of the time - I blame Shady and Veya.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

First of all, thank you for not howling about "racism" when discussing this topic.

I do find this very interesting. I've mentioned before that I frequented a forum for a little while which was mainly populated with black American people. One of the topics which came up was the use of the phrase "African American". Some of the people on there said they didn't like being described as that because they'd never been to Africa in their life!

The situation in Yugoslavia interested me largely because of the issue of someone being ethnically "Serb" even if they were born in Croatia and there were no apparent differences between them and their Croat neighbours and friends.

Some English people do indeed distinguish themselves as an ethnic group, not merely as someone who happened to be born in England or grew up in England. Someone may well say they're English even if they were not born in England - because their parents or ancestors were English. Some Scottish people do the same thing, as do Irish and Welsh people.

Sure -- so much of how we think of ourselves is shaped by our older relatives, the country we grew up in, etc. People tend to think of me as American but there are places in America that are quite foreign to me. I go to Colorado and it's fun but I don't feel at home. Honestly, I get a little on edge when I haven't seen this in a while:



That's what I identify with

Yes - parts of America seem hugely different to others in terms of climate, vegetation, buildings, etc. I suppose we don't have that so much in the UK, although we do have slight differences in temperature, and we do have areas which are more "mountainous" than others.

Ben_Reilly wrote:Also -- I love how this thread started off as being about the "Tory Tax"

I was just wondering that.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

First of all, thank you for not howling about "racism" when discussing this topic.

I do find this very interesting. I've mentioned before that I frequented a forum for a little while which was mainly populated with black American people. One of the topics which came up was the use of the phrase "African American". Some of the people on there said they didn't like being described as that because they'd never been to Africa in their life!

The situation in Yugoslavia interested me largely because of the issue of someone being ethnically "Serb" even if they were born in Croatia and there were no apparent differences between them and their Croat neighbours and friends.

Some English people do indeed distinguish themselves as an ethnic group, not merely as someone who happened to be born in England or grew up in England. Someone may well say they're English even if they were not born in England - because their parents or ancestors were English. Some Scottish people do the same thing, as do Irish and Welsh people.

Sure -- so much of how we think of ourselves is shaped by our older relatives, the country we grew up in, etc. People tend to think of me as American but there are places in America that are quite foreign to me. I go to Colorado and it's fun but I don't feel at home. Honestly, I get a little on edge when I haven't seen this in a while:



That's what I identify with

Yes - parts of America seem hugely different to others in terms of climate, vegetation, buildings, etc. I suppose we don't have that so much in the UK, although we do have slight differences in temperature, and we do have areas which are more "mountainous" than others.

It's a bit different in the US or even in Texas. I get out in the countryside too long and I start to feel a bit creeped out.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes - parts of America seem hugely different to others in terms of climate, vegetation, buildings, etc. I suppose we don't have that so much in the UK, although we do have slight differences in temperature, and we do have areas which are more "mountainous" than others.

It's a bit different in the US or even in Texas. I get out in the countryside too long and I start to feel a bit creeped out.

I guess you have lots of countryside with no towns in sight.

I went to New Zealand many years ago, and before I went people told me it was like England. I didn't think it was anything like England - totally different actually.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes - parts of America seem hugely different to others in terms of climate, vegetation, buildings, etc. I suppose we don't have that so much in the UK, although we do have slight differences in temperature, and we do have areas which are more "mountainous" than others.

It's a bit different in the US or even in Texas. I get out in the countryside too long and I start to feel a bit creeped out.

I guess you have lots of countryside with no towns in sight.

I went to New Zealand many years ago, and before I went people told me it was like England. I didn't think it was anything like England - totally different actually.

It can get that way, there aren't as many unpopulated stretches any more but you can still go miles between towns in places like west Texas. And then you get to the town and it's like the lyrics from a Blur song:



Do you go to the country
It isn't very far
There's people there who'll hurt you
'cause of who you are
Your ears are full of their language
There's wisdom there you're sure
'till the words start slurring
And you can't find the door

And to be fair, I think of flat places with less than 20,000 people as "countryside"

Ben, are you saying that you don't live on a ranch where you have an annual barbecue which ends up in a punch up every year?

Raggamuffin wrote:Ben, are you saying that you don't live on a ranch where you have an annual barbecue which ends up in a punch up every year?  

No, no ... I guess I'm really more of a Texas city slicker

Okay, I admit it. I don't see wide-open plains and tumbleweeds when I go out, I see museums, fancy restaurants, skyscrapers with people wearing business attire in them, and hipster bars ... and kiosks where you can rent bicycles ... and riverside jogging trails ... and coffee houses ...

Oh God. Oh God. My secret is out ...

The only people who ride horses around here are doing it for tourists!

We make fun of people in cowboy hats!

I live three miles from a street named after the man who won the first International Tchaikovsky Piano Competition!

My next-door neighbor is a gallery curator. A gallery curator!

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Ben, are you saying that you don't live on a ranch where you have an annual barbecue which ends up in a punch up every year?  

No, no ... I guess I'm really more of a Texas city slicker

Okay, I admit it. I don't see wide-open plains and tumbleweeds when I go out, I see museums, fancy restaurants, skyscrapers with people wearing business attire in them, and hipster bars ... and kiosks where you can rent bicycles ... and riverside jogging trails ... and coffee houses ...

Oh God. Oh God. My secret is out ...

The only people who ride horses around here are doing it for tourists!

We make fun of people in cowboy hats!

I live three miles from a street named after the man who won the first International Tchaikovsky Piano Competition!

My next-door neighbor is a gallery curator. A gallery curator!

Do you have a Texan accent though? I do like the Texan drawl.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Ben, are you saying that you don't live on a ranch where you have an annual barbecue which ends up in a punch up every year?  

No, no ... I guess I'm really more of a Texas city slicker

Okay, I admit it. I don't see wide-open plains and tumbleweeds when I go out, I see museums, fancy restaurants, skyscrapers with people wearing business attire in them, and hipster bars ... and kiosks where you can rent bicycles ... and riverside jogging trails ... and coffee houses ...

Oh God. Oh God. My secret is out ...

The only people who ride horses around here are doing it for tourists!

We make fun of people in cowboy hats!

I live three miles from a street named after the man who won the first International Tchaikovsky Piano Competition!

My next-door neighbor is a gallery curator. A gallery curator!

Do you have a Texan accent though? I do like the Texan drawl.

To people from outside Texas, I sound very Texan, I'm told, but not to people from the smaller Texas towns -- they think I'm from the north

Not much like Matthew McConaughey, I'm afraid