So You're About To Become A Minority

darknessss wrote:and you all still miss the point I made.....

just what do you think this will be seen as by the "white supremacists"?

isnt it just "stoking the fire"

Shady wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

When, in the past two-thousand years, was there ever slavery in the UK??

Good evening Quill.

If I remember my junior school history correctly,the Romans enslaved many ancient Britons when they invaded us in about 55BC.

I would guess that in about 55 years time,present day Britons will be enslaved by Muslims.

darknessss wrote:and you all still miss the point I made.....

just what do you think this will be seen as by the "white supremacists"?

isnt it just "stoking the fire"

eddie wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:I thought the video was funny, biting and spot-on. The point -- anything you do to me could eventually be done to you, so be nice

And if it was the other way round? What if I made a video about bombing Muslims?
Would that be ok?

Original Quill wrote:

Shady wrote:

Good evening Quill.

If I remember my junior school history correctly,the Romans enslaved many ancient Britons when they invaded us in about 55BC.

I would guess that in about 55 years time,present day Britons will be enslaved by Muslims.

Perhaps, and if you want to try for some vindication for Roman slaves, go for it.  Just don't call it racism.

Whites have never suffered racism.  They have suffered privilege.  Perhaps you are not acquainted with the concept of proportional equality, Shady?  Before whites can begin to whinge about racism, then need about 450-years of disenfranchisement.

The proper expression meaning detraction or disparagement for whites is: relatively less privilege.

Original Quill wrote:

Shady wrote:

Good evening Quill.

If I remember my junior school history correctly,the Romans enslaved many ancient Britons when they invaded us in about 55BC.

I would guess that in about 55 years time,present day Britons will be enslaved by Muslims.

Perhaps, and if you want to try for some vindication for Roman slaves, go for it.  Just don't call it racism.

Whites have never suffered racism.  They have suffered privilege.  Perhaps you are not acquainted with the concept of proportional equality, Shady?  Before whites can begin to whinge about racism, then need about 450-years of disenfranchisement.

The proper expression meaning detraction or disparagement for whites is: relatively less privilege.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Shady wrote:

Good evening Quill.

If I remember my junior school history correctly,the Romans enslaved many ancient Britons when they invaded us in about 55BC.

I would guess that in about 55 years time,present day Britons will be enslaved by Muslims.

Perhaps, and if you want to try for some vindication for Roman slaves, go for it.  Just don't call it racism.

Whites have never suffered racism.  They have suffered privilege.  Perhaps you are not acquainted with the concept of proportional equality, Shady?  Before whites can begin to whinge about racism, then need about 450-years of disenfranchisement.

The proper expression meaning detraction or disparagement for whites is: relatively less privilege.

You are lumping all white people together, and all non-white people together. If a white person is discriminated against by a non-white person, they can certainly complain about racial discrimination, and in the UK they would be entitled to do so.

All this "white privilege" nonsense seems to emanate from the US. Do you not think that it's keeping the issue going? If you constantly distinguish between people based on their race, which is what you're doing, there will never be equality. Some people will be labelled as "victims" purely based on their race, regardless of their circumstances. If you constantly refer to white people as "privileged", regardless of their circumstances, you're giving out the message that they're superior in some way.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You are lumping all white people together, and all non-white people together. If a white person is discriminated against by a non-white person, they can certainly complain about racial discrimination, and in the UK they would be entitled to do so.

All this "white privilege" nonsense seems to emanate from the US. Do you not think that it's keeping the issue going? If you constantly distinguish between people based on their race, which is what you're doing, there will never be equality. Some people will be labelled as "victims" purely based on their race, regardless of their circumstances. If you constantly refer to white people as "privileged", regardless of their circumstances, you're giving out the message that they're superior in some way.

This is a video for a U.S. white audience, though. It seems to me to be kind of weak to think that when things still aren't equal for black Americans, we should start insisting that we shove several centuries of oppression under the rug because it's uncomfortable to contemplate.

And I don't think anybody is conflating "privilege" with "superiority." Most advantages that any group has over any other were won by violence (or perhaps good fortune), not by being better. Honestly, I think that anyone who believes in any kind of superiority is a special kind of stupid ... but then, I'm probably my own special kind of stupid as well

Original Quill wrote:

Shady wrote:

Good evening Quill.

If I remember my junior school history correctly,the Romans enslaved many ancient Britons when they invaded us in about 55BC.

I would guess that in about 55 years time,present day Britons will be enslaved by Muslims.

Perhaps, and if you want to try for some vindication for Roman slaves, go for it.  Just don't call it racism.

Whites have never suffered racism.  They have suffered privilege.  Perhaps you are not acquainted with the concept of proportional equality, Shady?  Before whites can begin to whinge about racism, then need about 450-years of disenfranchisement.

The proper expression meaning detraction or disparagement for whites is: relatively less privilege.

Tommy Monk wrote:What about the black Africans enslavement of The pygmies???

Tommy Monk wrote:Nothing, just raising the point that blacks did and still do subjugate others to slavery.

Tommy Monk wrote:I added a fact that was so far absent from the debate, thereby adding to it.

Tommy Monk wrote:Nobody denied it because it was never mentioned...

Tommy Monk wrote:Nobody denied it because it was never mentioned...

Shady wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Nobody denied it because it was never mentioned...

Good afternoon Tommy.

I've been watching your excellent efforts at propping up the site idiot Nemesis,& I thank you because I've tried to keep him going but I had better things to do.

I should have a bit of waste time later today so I may take over then if that's alright?

Nemesis wrote:

Shady wrote:


Good afternoon Tommy.

I've been watching your excellent efforts at propping up the site idiot Nemesis,& I thank you because I've tried to keep him going but I had better things to do.

I should have a bit of waste time later today so I may take over then if that's alright?

Good afternoon little boy

I see you are continuing to shit stir and act a complete troll.

Run along and allow the grown ups to debate.

Thank you

Shady wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

Good afternoon little boy

I see you are continuing to shit stir and act a complete troll.

Run along and allow the grown ups to debate.

Thank you

See what I mean Tommy.

Tommy Monk wrote:Good afternoon shady, my good friend mattiducatti over on flap tells me you are an excellent poster!


Please feel free to join in at any time!


lol


(PS - I think nemesis believes that we still haven't all rumbled him as Didge yet...! Most amusing!!!)

nicko wrote:But you are  Didge aren't you?

Nemesis wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You are lumping all white people together, and all non-white people together. If a white person is discriminated against by a non-white person, they can certainly complain about racial discrimination, and in the UK they would be entitled to do so.

All this "white privilege" nonsense seems to emanate from the US. Do you not think that it's keeping the issue going? If you constantly distinguish between people based on their race, which is what you're doing, there will never be equality. Some people will be labelled as "victims" purely based on their race, regardless of their circumstances. If you constantly refer to white people as "privileged", regardless of their circumstances, you're giving out the message that they're superior in some way.

This is a video for a U.S. white audience, though. It seems to me to be kind of weak to think that when things still aren't equal for black Americans, we should start insisting that we shove several centuries of oppression under the rug because it's uncomfortable to contemplate.

And I don't think anybody is conflating "privilege" with "superiority." Most advantages that any group has over any other were won by violence (or perhaps good fortune), not by being better. Honestly, I think that anyone who believes in any kind of superiority is a special kind of stupid ... but then, I'm probably my own special kind of stupid as well

I agree with most of your points, but again what is poor is when some as seen here defend racism against whites and words which are clearly racist against whites.
You either stand against all racism, or then it is only selctive racism and thus very hypocritical.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

I agree with most of your points, but again what is poor is when some as seen here defend racism against whites and words which are clearly racist against whites.
You either stand against all racism, or then it is only selctive racism and thus very hypocritical.

I don't think it's that simple, though. I'd agree if I thought all types of racism are equally bad, but in most cases, minorities can't affect members of the majority the way the majority can affect minorities. There's an imbalance of power that I think has to be taken into consideration or at least acknowledged.

Nemesis wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Nemesis wrote:

I agree with most of your points, but again what is poor is when some as seen here defend racism against whites and words which are clearly racist against whites.
You either stand against all racism, or then it is only selctive racism and thus very hypocritical.

I don't think it's that simple, though. I'd agree if I thought all types of racism are equally bad, but in most cases, minorities can't affect members of the majority the way the majority can affect minorities. There's an imbalance of power that I think has to be taken into consideration or at least acknowledged.

Yes but there are places where whites are minorities for example in Africa.
We have seen some of the worst retribution for example in places like Zimbabwe, where the population has shrunk from near 300,000 to less than 40,000. Two wrongs do not make a right and many whites have suffered badly under Mugabe. Just because you have not seen a level happen to place on a par with the past, does not mean it is not possible it could or will happen. The point is racism exist within all societies and is wrong no matter who is the instigator.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Nemesis wrote:


Yes but there are places where whites are minorities for example in Africa.
We have seen some of the worst retribution for example in places like Zimbabwe, where the population has shrunk from near 300,000 to less than 40,000. Two wrongs do not make a right and many whites have suffered badly under Mugabe. Just because you have not seen a level happen to place on a par with the past, does not mean it is not possible it could or will happen. The point is racism exist within all societies and is wrong no matter who is the instigator.

I agree to a certain extent -- that's why I used the terms "majority" and "minority" instead of "white" and "black." I'd just add that in a place like the U.S., white people as a whole created an environment that black people as a whole had to endure, while black people as a whole were powerless to do the same to white people.

Nemesis wrote:Yes white so suffer racism and did under Arabs, showing you know little of history.

Nemesis wrote:I suppose you have never heard of Janissaries then?

All groups have suffered slavery, where even today we see racism in reverse in places like Zimbabwe

Nemesis wrote:Again you seem to be nothing more than a self hating white that ignores when whites have been and are still discriminated.

All racism is wrong and it is poor to excuse it when it has happened to whites.

Original Quill wrote:

Nemesis wrote:Yes white so suffer racism and did under Arabs, showing you know little of history.

Haha…and do they call them ‘honky’?  Didge, you are the classic example of a little bit of education being dangerous.

Nemesis wrote:I suppose you have never heard of Janissaries then?

All groups have suffered slavery, where even today we see racism in reverse in places like Zimbabwe

Do they call them ‘honkies’?

Nemesis wrote:Again you seem to be nothing more than a self hating white that ignores when whites have been and are still discriminated.

All racism is wrong and it is poor to excuse it when it has happened to whites.

I can tell you have never studied history.  History takes place within a context, and no idea is timeless.  You can’t say that Greek democracy is the equivalent of modern democracy, nor can you say the slavery in Arabia is the same as the slavery in the American south.

Note, significantly, that you have changed the subject.  We were talking about racism, not just any kind of slavery.  You have a problem with concentrating.  Focus on the topic at hand.

Recently Chris Matthews made an insightful comment: There is no such thing as race, but there is such a thing as racism.  What that means, among other things, is that we are talking about an ideology, not the thing surrounding the ideology.  Race—such as a dark skin or blue eyes—only becomes significant in our own ideas.  Only then do we frown or smile on someone.  

Therefore, it is silly to compare beliefs about race.  The whole concept of race was conceived of differently by different cultures.  You can compare events such as slavery, just as you can compare rainfalls or earthquakes.  But that has nothing to do with the ideologies that cultures come up with around them.

There is no comparison between the ideology of some Arabs in 55 BC, and the ideology of the American south 450-years ago.  Both civilizations had slavery, but both civilizations had rainfall…does that mean they have the same ideology.  Ridiculous.

Now, transmute that same distinction to the present discussion about ‘white racism’ and you see how ridiculous the equivalency is.  Racism is an ideology, and presupposes a history.  There is no history of disparagement of the white race.  There is no such thing as white racism.

Nemesis wrote:

nicko wrote:But you are  Didge aren't you?

Nope

Nemesis wrote:

nicko wrote:But you are  Didge aren't you?

Nope

eddie wrote:Ben I have no problem actually, with the video itself - it's all true.
My point is, these things have to work both ways without people being biased about it.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:Ben I have no problem actually, with the video itself - it's all true.
My point is, these things have to work both ways without people being biased about it.

I see that point, and it's a tough thing to talk about without making it out like some people should feel guilty just because of the color of their skin.

That's why I always like to point out that it's not that many living white people's fault that racial privilege/disadvantage still exists, just as the progress that has been made has been helped along by some white people. It's not about feeling guilty for something you didn't necessarily have anything to do with. It is important though to point it out when the systems we've set up discriminate. I don't believe most people want our systems to be that way, regardless of what color they are, who benefits and who's hurt.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:Ben I have no problem actually, with the video itself - it's all true.
My point is, these things have to work both ways without people being biased about it.

I see that point, and it's a tough thing to talk about without making it out like some people should feel guilty just because of the color of their skin.

Ben_Reilly wrote:That's why I always like to point out that it's not that many living white people's fault that racial privilege/disadvantage still exists, just as the progress that has been made has been helped along by some white people. It's not about feeling guilty for something you didn't necessarily have anything to do with. It is important though to point it out when the systems we've set up discriminate. I don't believe most people want our systems to be that way, regardless of what color they are, who benefits and who's hurt.

The Harvard University Civil Rights Project wrote:The courts have uniformly held that an institution can have a compelling interest in remedying the present effects of its own past discrimination.  For example, a university that for several years denied admission to African American applicants because of race (its past discrimination) can have a compelling interest in remedying the current lack of African American students in its student body (the present effects) and can mploy a race-conscious policy.

Nemesis wrote:Your lack of understanding knows no limits it seems:

Nemesis wrote:There is no such thing in humans biologically as races, but racism has been invented by people, of which you certainly fall into the category Quill. Whites did not start slavery 450 years ago, it started in Sumeria the first doumented case, 6000 years ago. It has been happening in many societies, where other groups are deemed as inferior and denied their basic right of freedom. You show such a lack of knowledge and understanding here, where again the first documented racism can be found in the bible.
I see you run away from my points.

How racism is defined.


United Nations defines racism as “any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin”. So treating people different because they are from a different tribe or ethnic group is racist.

veya_victaous wrote:Whites didn't start slavery by a long shot
it has existed in Asia the middle east and even Europe for Millennia, it is so old we don't even know who or how it started.

Historically white Europeans were enslaved by middle eastern/north African and Mediterranean peoples in greater numbers over a 2000 years period than whites enslaved people in the last few centuries.

Europe was 'nothing much' until the Mongols knocked everyone else down

Raggamuffin wrote:
I think you'll find that "honky" is a racial slur. Of course, some people will claim it's not because they don't like to admit that anyone can be racist against white people.

Original Quill wrote:

Nemesis wrote:Your lack of understanding knows no limits it seems:

Didge, stop being stupid.  This is not about me.  But your ignorance is getting in the way.


What an ignorant rant.  I despair for the schooling in the UK, if this is the best they can do with their students.  Racism is not a mathematical equation.  It is not an engineering problem.  It doesn't happen in 2-seconds, nor is slogan out of a book.  Least of all is it a definition that is nowhere found in reality (to add insult to your ignorance, you have given the definition of 'bigotry' not a definition of racism).  It is a living history spread out over centuries...you should be so lucky that it could be confined to two lines in some brief.  It is a whole library of books on social psychology--where is that in your silly passage?  It is a whole museum of life in cultural anthropology.  It's the whole Restatement of Laws in a law library.  It is far beyond your poor powers to add or detract.

A couple of years back I indicted the entire nation of Britain for having no understanding whatsoever of racism.  In fact, I said your style of racism was 'wimp'.  Now I understand why, and how significant that was.  The UK has never lived in a world of real racism.  Pathetic souls...you have no idea.

But don't worry...it could be worse:

Nemesis wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Didge, stop being stupid.  This is not about me.  But your ignorance is getting in the way.


What an ignorant rant.  I despair for the schooling in the UK, if this is the best they can do with their students.  Racism is not a mathematical equation.  It is not an engineering problem.  It doesn't happen in 2-seconds, nor is slogan out of a book.  Least of all is it a definition that is nowhere found in reality (to add insult to your ignorance, you have given the definition of 'bigotry' not a definition of racism).  It is a living history spread out over centuries...you should be so lucky that it could be confined to two lines in some brief.  It is a whole library of books on social psychology--where is that in your silly passage?  It is a whole museum of life in cultural anthropology.  It's the whole Restatement of Laws in a law library.  It is far beyond your poor powers to add or detract.

A couple of years back I indicted the entire nation of Britain for having no understanding whatsoever of racism.  In fact, I said your style of racism was 'wimp'.  Now I understand why, and how significant that was.  The UK has never lived in a world of real racism.  Pathetic souls...you have no idea.

But don't worry...it could be worse:

You seriously are one uneducated person where you have not countered with anything of substance.
You have ignored history, have proved you are a self hating white and the worst left wing racist I have had the displeasure of ever meeting on forums, of which again I am Nemesis and only just meeting you that I shall have to avoid even engaging talking to you being as you clearly understand very little.
As seen I understand racism very well, which again has been invented to treat others of groups differently, what you tried to wrongly claim is it does not happen to white people which it most certainly has done. The Arab as saw themselves as a superior race and treated European nations and kept them as slaves, all of which endorsed by their own religion. So it shows your own failings and lack of intelligence also to an understanding. You failed to understand the first recorded racism happened 6000 years ago as to deny slavery is not racism is absurd, because it denies groups of people who were enslaved their basic freedoms.


Now I suggest you go back and take on previous post.

If not you will just look again as silly as you are doing now.


I Guess I shall have to call you Pol Pot if you continue to fail to address my name.

Nemesis wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:Whites didn't start slavery by a long shot
it has existed in Asia the middle east and even Europe for Millennia, it is so old we don't even know who or how it started.

Historically white Europeans were enslaved by middle eastern/north African and Mediterranean peoples in greater numbers over a 2000 years period than whites enslaved people in the last few centuries.

Europe was 'nothing much' until the Mongols knocked everyone else down

People of the Middle East of the Caucasian group, which makes them white also, but agree on Asians as well having slavery of which also it happened in Africa also to its starts of Civilization.
Also Europe was at the fore front of Civilization, science, philosophy etc with the Greeks way before the Mongols, with the later being nothing more than savage warriors. You also had the Romans of which you also had the Persian Empires in all their different names, all again of Caucasian stock.

Nemesis wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:Whites didn't start slavery by a long shot
it has existed in Asia the middle east and even Europe for Millennia, it is so old we don't even know who or how it started.

Historically white Europeans were enslaved by middle eastern/north African and Mediterranean peoples in greater numbers over a 2000 years period than whites enslaved people in the last few centuries.

Europe was 'nothing much' until the Mongols knocked everyone else down

People of the Middle East of the Caucasian group, which makes them white also, but agree on Asians as well having slavery of which also it happened in Africa also to its starts of Civilization.
Also Europe was at the fore front of Civilization, science, philosophy etc with the Greeks way before the Mongols, with the later being nothing more than savage warriors. You also had the Romans of which you also had the Persian Empires in all their different names, all again of Caucasian stock.

Original Quill wrote:

Nemesis wrote:


You seriously are one uneducated person where you have not countered with anything of substance.
You have ignored history, have proved you are a self hating white and the worst left wing racist I have had the displeasure of ever meeting on forums, of which again I am Nemesis and only just meeting you that I shall have to avoid even engaging talking to you being as you clearly understand very little.
As seen I understand racism very well, which again has been invented to treat others of groups differently, what you tried to wrongly claim is it does not happen to white people which it most certainly has done. The Arab as saw themselves as a superior race and treated European nations and kept them as slaves, all of which endorsed by their own religion. So it shows your own failings and lack of intelligence also to an understanding. You failed to understand the first recorded racism happened 6000 years ago as to deny slavery is not racism is absurd, because it denies groups of people who were enslaved their basic freedoms.


Now I suggest you go back and take on previous post.

If not you will just look again as silly as you are doing now.


I Guess I shall have to call you Pol Pot if you continue to fail to address my name.

Well, not wishing to engage in an IDS (infinite didge spiral), I'll move off to more interesting threads.  Before I go, I want to leave you with this last thought:


Man...you get yourself it the worst predicaments.

Lone Wolf wrote:

Nemesis wrote:


People of the Middle East of the Caucasian group, which makes them white also, but agree on Asians as well having slavery of which also it happened in Africa also to its starts of Civilization.
Also Europe was at the fore front of Civilization, science, philosophy etc with the Greeks way before the Mongols, with the later being nothing more than savage warriors. You also had the Romans of which you also had the Persian Empires in all their different names, all again of Caucasian stock.

THE BRITISH were happy to be involved in the slave trade for more than a thousand years...

THE "Feudal" system enjoyed from the end of Roman occupation right through to the 18th century (and even later in Ireland..) was always a particularly nasty form of "indentured" slavery ~ only tolerated by your ancestors because they were born to it, and didn't know any better until certain "interlopers" popped up on the scene..

FROM the Middle Ages up until the 18th century, many moneyed Brit's were quite happy to buy slaves off those African and Arab slave-traders.

IN parts of Africa, S.E.Asia and some Pacific Rim countries, even today many British, Euro-trash and North American companies are still taking advantage of slave labour !
IT'S NOT only China, Asian and a few Arab states that are involved..