So You're About To Become A Minority

by Guest Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:13 am

First topic message reminder :

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:03 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Ragggamuffin wrote:So you think that a black person is entitled to call me all the names under the sun, tell me to hang myself from a tree, etc, just because somewhere in the US at some point someone with black skin was mistreated? How is that justice?

Whatever the incident or circumstance, if it is related to racism it is a present effect of past discrimination. Crime, poverty, hostility…treat it intelligently…scientifically. Look for the causes and try to correct them.

Raggamuffin wrote:It's no wonder you have an ongoing problem over there. You are telling black people that they are victims, even if they're not. You're telling that they're entitled to mistreat white people just because they're white.

Perhaps in the UK people are treated more as individuals rather than as a number.

I believe the UK is sticking its collective head in the sand. If it does not learn lessons that are already being taught elsewhere, such as the US, well…it will remain uneducated, with all that such entails in terms of poverty and failure.

The UK is already past its apex. That means that it doesn’t have the wide latitude for error that goes with being a dominant power. Where the UK goes from here—elder statesman or poor street sweeper—will depend on choices made right now, here today.

So you think that I deserve to be abused by black people because I'm white? Why should I excuse it? It's the person who is doing the abusing who should look to correct their own behaviour rather than excuse it. Telling the abuser that it's not their fault is not the way to go IMO.

I think the UK has learned lessons much better than the US, if your views are anything to go by. I think that it's you who needs to be educated actually. Your views are damaging to society, and the problem in the US seems to be getting worse. I think that's because people like you constantly excuse bad behaviour on the part of some people by telling them that they are intrinsically victims, and telling white people that their skin colour is causing others to hate them.

by Original Quill Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:10 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:So do you think that the problems of a black person are all down to "white privilege" and history, or do you concede that they might have something to do with the attitude of the black person? For example, what is stopping a black person trying hard at school? I mean, they're not forbidden to attend school are they?

No, actually, I believe that there is no problem “of a black person.” There is, however, a problem of the white person. I repeat, “There is no such thing as race, but there is such a thing as racism.” It is a white concern. All of these machinations—all of this twisting and writhing white folks are doing—collective guilt—blame the black man—all have to do with the white psyche.

The problem is, while we are nursing the white person back to health, they (whites) are getting in the way of the progress of the black person. White cops gunning down black men. Republicans voting down Head Start and education programs. Republican intransigence and downright treason in response to a black man being elected president.

We need a wholesale shut-down of the Republican Party, and a reconstructing of conservative values such as open carry, stand your ground, white supremacy, white terrorism and Christian extremism. With the anticipated Democratic victory expected in 2016, we will begin our mission.

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:So do you think that the problems of a black person are all down to "white privilege" and history, or do you concede that they might have something to do with the attitude of the black person? For example, what is stopping a black person trying hard at school? I mean, they're not forbidden to attend school are they?

No, actually, I believe that there is no problem “of a black person.” There is, however, a problem of the white person. I repeat, “There is no such thing as race, but there is such a thing as racism.” It is a white concern. All of these machinations—all of this twisting and writhing white folks are doing—collective guilt—blame the black man—all have to do with the white psyche.

The problem is, while we are nursing the white person back to health, they (whites) are getting in the way of the progress of the black person. White cops gunning down black men. Republicans voting down Head Start and education programs. Republican intransigence and downright treason in response to a black man being elected president.

We need a wholesale shut-down of the Republican Party, and a reconstructing of conservative values such as open carry, stand your ground, white supremacy, white terrorism and Christian extremism. With the anticipated Democratic victory expected in 2016, we will begin our mission.

Well if a black person doesn't have a problem, what are you complaining about?

What problem does a white person have, other than the usual problems that most people have?

Most white people have not gunned down a black person, and a lot of them voted for Obama. I don't know about the education thing.

You want to shut down a whole party? How do you intend to do that? It doesn't sound very democratic.

by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:16 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Blacks today in America are feeling the hostility towards their high and violent crime rates and their gang style behaviour and general bad attitude...

Conditions created by whites...present effects of past discrimination.

Believe me, liberals are trying to solve these problems. RW'ers don't want to solve them. They would prefer more prisons and more wars.

You don't solve crime problems by letting the crime go unpunished... that just encourages more crime.

Here in UK our criminal justice system is a joke.

by Original Quill Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:19 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I think the UK has learned lessons much better than the US, if your views are anything to go by.

Time will tell. The UK however is already dependent on the US. If you want to stay in the game, well...maybe not.

Raggamuffin wrote:I think that it's you who needs to be educated actually. Your views are damaging to society, and the problem in the US seems to be getting worse. I think that's because people like you constantly excuse bad behaviour on the part of some people by telling them that they are intrinsically victims, and telling white people that their skin colour is causing others to hate them.

Well, you are angry and upset. Ask yourself: How do you feel when you are angry? Are you able to accomplish anything? Truth is, anger is a useless emotion. It stops the brain cells from functioning.

That's why you are responding in this fashion. Much better to settle down and engage the thought process.

Gotta go...busy afternoon. Perhaps we can chat tonight.

by Original Quill Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:22 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Conditions created by whites...present effects of past discrimination.

Believe me, liberals are trying to solve these problems. RW'ers don't want to solve them. They would prefer more prisons and more wars.

You don't solve crime problems by letting the crime go unpunished... that just encourages more crime.

Here in UK our criminal justice system is a joke.

I totally agree with that. But that is because the UK doesn't know which way to turn...its notion of being civilized is simply being soft. Trust me, there's nothing wrong with being tough on crime. But that does not mean you don't stop looking for the causes, and working to make conditions better. Two different things, really.

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I think the UK has learned lessons much better than the US, if your views are anything to go by.

Time will tell. The UK however is already dependent on the US. If you want to stay in the game, well...maybe not.

Raggamuffin wrote:I think that it's you who needs to be educated actually. Your views are damaging to society, and the problem in the US seems to be getting worse. I think that's because people like you constantly excuse bad behaviour on the part of some people by telling them that they are intrinsically victims, and telling white people that their skin colour is causing others to hate them.

Well, you are angry and upset. Ask yourself: How do you feel when you are angry? Are you able to accomplish anything? Truth is, anger is a useless emotion. It stops the brain cells from functioning.

That's why you are responding in this fashion. Much better to settle down and engage the thought process.

Gotta go...busy afternoon. Perhaps we can chat tonight.

I'm not angry and upset, I just disagree with your views. You're starting to sound a bit mad, so it's probably best if you take a break ... Cool

by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

You don't solve crime problems by letting the crime go unpunished... that just encourages more crime.

Here in UK our criminal justice system is a joke.

I totally agree with that. But that is because the UK doesn't know which way to turn...its notion of being civilized is simply being soft. Trust me, there's nothing wrong with being tough on crime. But that does not mean you don't stop looking for the causes, and working to make conditions better. Two different things, really.

The reason why we have a soft approach on crime is because of The high level of black and Muslim crime and the authorities don't want to give them a bad name or be called racist...

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:43 pm

Original Quill wrote:

Look at George Zimmerman…need I say more?

Did you ever watch the trial?

by Original Quill Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I totally agree with that. But that is because the UK doesn't know which way to turn...its notion of being civilized is simply being soft. Trust me, there's nothing wrong with being tough on crime. But that does not mean you don't stop looking for the causes, and working to make conditions better. Two different things, really.

The reason why we have a soft approach on crime is because of The high level of black and Muslim crime and the authorities don't want to give them a bad name or be called racist...

I don't know, Tommy. I lived for a year in London and that was years ago, before there was significant racial awareness in the UK. You guys were incredibly soft on crime even back then.

by Original Quill Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:58 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Look at George Zimmerman…need I say more?

Did you ever watch the trial?

Much more...I've read the relevant portions of the transcript.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:08 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Did you ever watch the trial?

Much more...I've read the relevant portions of the transcript.

Oooh, which portions?

by Tommy Monk Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:16 pm

I don't know how long ago you're talking about quill, we used to have hanging and then when that was abolished we were told that a life sentence would mean life... now I showed you the example of The violent racist attack by the Somalian women who were allowed to walk free from court as they used the defence that it wasn't them as they were drunk at the time... don't know how well that defence would go down for anyone else's crimes...
Not too well I'd imagine, but now all sentences are seen as quite lenient and automatically meaning that only half of time awarded is actually served in jail.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:23 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't know how long ago you're talking about quill, we used to have hanging and then when that was abolished we were told that a life sentence would mean life... now I showed you the example of The violent racist attack by the Somalian women who were allowed to walk free from court as they used the defence that it wasn't them as they were drunk at the time... don't know how well that defence would go down for anyone else's crimes...
Not too well I'd imagine, but now all sentences are seen as quite lenient and automatically meaning that only half of time awarded is actually served in jail.

I remember that one. I don't think they were let off because they were drunk at the time, it was because the judge thought that the women felt that Rhea Page's boyfriend used unreasonable force when he defended her. I really didn't get why that made a difference tbh because they shouldn't have attacked her in the first place, and I thought the judge's decision was disgraceful. They were also not charged with a racially aggravated crime, and I think they should have been.

by Original Quill Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:26 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Much more...I've read the relevant portions of the transcript.

Oooh, which portions?

Everything at issue in the discussions had on this site and others. It's all available on-line.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:27 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Oooh, which portions?

Everything at issue in the discussions had on this site and others. It's all available on-line.

Jonathan Good's testimony?

by Original Quill Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't know how long ago you're talking about quill, we used to have hanging and then when that was abolished we were told that a life sentence would mean life... now I showed you the example of The violent racist attack by the Somalian women who were allowed to walk free from court as they used the defence that it wasn't them as they were drunk at the time... don't know how well that defence would go down for anyone else's crimes...
Not too well I'd imagine, but now all sentences are seen as quite lenient and automatically meaning that only half of time awarded is actually served in jail.

It's one thing to have a punishment on the books, and another thing to actually use it. Going back as far as I can remember, the UK has had a soft spot for criminals. As an observer, I often watched criminal proceedings at Old Baily. It seemed they bent over backwards for the criminally accused.

I'm skeptical of second-hand accounts of legal proceedings--especially from lay persons. Most untrained people understand legal proceedings about as well as they understand neurosurgery. But it's pretty well known that the British undercharge, handle with uber-leniency and under-sentence their accused over there.

by Original Quill Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Everything at issue in the discussions had on this site and others. It's all available on-line.

Jonathan Good's testimony?

Axiom Amnesia wrote:Witness Jonathan Good (W6) Files: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman Case

This is the information page for Jonathan Good (W6) (aka 911 Caller #4) in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case. You will find links to the available documents and media below. You can also locate other corresponding testimony and information on the site.

Note: Some of the witnesses have come forward and given media interviews. Consequently, their names are publicly known. In such cases, the names of these witnesses are included with their caller and witness number.
http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/people/witnesses/witness-6-files-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Jonathan Good's testimony?

Axiom Amnesia wrote:Witness Jonathan Good (W6) Files: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman Case

This is the information page for Jonathan Good (W6) (aka 911 Caller #4) in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case. You will find links to the available documents and media below. You can also locate other corresponding testimony and information on the site.

Note: Some of the witnesses have come forward and given media interviews. Consequently, their names are publicly known. In such cases, the names of these witnesses are included with their caller and witness number.
http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/people/witnesses/witness-6-files-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/

I've seen his testimony before. Do you think he was lying about what he saw?

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