Question for Creationists

QUESTION FOR CREATIONISTS

For the sake of this argument we must assume God was responsible for the creation of all life on Earth.    To put the question in the right perspective, a brief quote from Genesis:

Genesis 24: ‘And God went on to say “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to their kind.” And it came to be.’

Now the scene is set for this serious question to our Creationist members:
If God was/is so powerful, able to create suns and planets, and all the life on Earth, why create dinosaurs then allow them to be exterminated from the planet about 65 million years ago? This event was believed to have been caused by a meteor 6 miles wide, (and a couple of others) slamming into Earth. Coupled with huge volcanic eruptions such events caused a change in the atmosphere, consequently responsible for a climate change making food resources in short supply and the ultimate death of the dinosaurs, coupled with poisonous gasses from the volcanic eruptions. This was exacerbated  due to thick dust  darkening the skies for a year or more causing the death and destruction of a lot of plant life as well as the dinosaurs.

As asked above, why did God allow this to happen and have to start all over again with different, new species of life? Surely with his power he could have stopped the meteors, or was it beyond his abilities, thereby making him not so powerful as portrayed and believed?

Over to you folks.

When you see in person bits of childrens bodies lying around together with bits of their Parents it's quite obvious there is no god and never was!!!

'CREATONiSTS' are "fucked in the head"...

THAT'S the be-all and end-all of it for all I'm concerned..

YOU CAN argue with a hardcore "creationism"/"ID" crap talker until you're blue in the face, but you're unlikely to get anywhere.

THEIR 'brain chemistry' is so messed up they literally "can't think straight" ==> rational thought processes seem to be beyond them ~ hence their usual recourse to extreme violence and threats to defend their indefensible "faith based" positions..

why care?

nicko wrote:When you see in person bits of childrens  bodies lying around together with bits of their Parents it's quite obvious there is no god and never was!!!

+1

nicko wrote:When you see in person bits of childrens  bodies lying around together with bits of their Parents it's quite obvious there is no god and never was!!!

and when you have to try to help the tortured minds of those unfortunate to have seen that......it becomes quite obvious too......
and when you have to try to comfort the father of a child dying at the side of the road due to a piss head driver who doesnt give a shit and is giggling to himself in a stupor it is also quite obvious....

Hi folks and thanks for your replies although not quite what I expected.

The way I see it is if there is/was a god, then by heck he should be pensioned off or demoted for his incompetence and mishandling of life on Earth. When we read some of the accounts in Genesis it comes across as a first class science fiction story. How on earth can people believe in such twaddle.

stardesk wrote:Hi folks and thanks for your replies although not quite what I expected.

The way I see it is if there is/was a god, then by heck he should be pensioned off or demoted for his incompetence and mishandling of life on Earth. When we read some of the accounts in Genesis it comes across as a first class science fiction story. How on earth can people believe in such twaddle.

though I would say that this in the main essentially applies to the abrahamic god and those like "him"

the "creator" spirit of the pagans is a different fish

he/she "created the conditions for the universe.....and then left it to "get on with it"

has no further interest except in "watching what happens"


and most certainly doesnt make any pretence about being able to "influence" whats happening
and no pretense that what we do will invoke any form of especial prais, favour or displeasure....


he/she is undoubtedly of the opinion that "hey I gave you lot brains"...use em...and catch me up

darknessss wrote:

stardesk wrote:Hi folks and thanks for your replies although not quite what I expected.

The way I see it is if there is/was a god, then by heck he should be pensioned off or demoted for his incompetence and mishandling of life on Earth. When we read some of the accounts in Genesis it comes across as a first class science fiction story. How on earth can people believe in such twaddle.

though I would say that this in the main essentially applies to the abrahamic god and those like "him"

the "creator" spirit of the pagans is a different fish

he/she "created the conditions for the universe.....and then left it to "get on with it"

has no further interest except in "watching what happens"


and most certainly doesnt make any pretence about being able to "influence" whats happening
and no pretense that what we do will invoke any form of especial prais, favour or displeasure....


he/she  is undoubtedly of the opinion that "hey I gave you lot brains"...use em...and catch me up

And even then with a lot of the Pagan pantheons, there is the whole "for their amusement" aspect and the fact they are imperfect and can be down right twisted themselves... thus would take amusement in death and destruction. when we consider that all sentient life forms sustain their life through the consumption of other life forms.. the notion of a benevolent god seem quite laughable

Also I don't think we have any creationist members

they got ground up and fed to the fishes wayyyy back

stardesk wrote:QUESTION FOR CREATIONISTS

For the sake of this argument we must assume God was responsible for the creation of all life on Earth.    To put the question in the right perspective, a brief quote from Genesis:

Genesis 24: ‘And God went on to say “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to their kind.” And it came to be.’

Now the scene is set for this serious question to our Creationist members:
If God was/is so powerful, able to create suns and planets, and all the life on Earth, why create dinosaurs then allow them to be exterminated from the planet about 65 million years ago? This event was believed to have been caused by a meteor 6 miles wide, (and a couple of others) slamming into Earth. Coupled with huge volcanic eruptions such events caused a change in the atmosphere, consequently responsible for a climate change making food resources in short supply and the ultimate death of the dinosaurs, coupled with poisonous gasses from the volcanic eruptions. This was exacerbated  due to thick dust  darkening the skies for a year or more causing the death and destruction of a lot of plant life as well as the dinosaurs.

As asked above, why did God allow this to happen and have to start all over again with different, new species of life? Surely with his power he could have stopped the meteors, or was it beyond his abilities, thereby making him not so powerful as portrayed and believed?

Over to you folks.

The most fertile land is normally found in earthquake zones.

Why is that?

Because destruction is a vital part of construction.

Sorry but you have the naivety of a 10 year old. Get educated. Yours isn't a religious query but a scientific one.

veya_victaous wrote:
Also I don't think we have any creationist members

MIGHT have to invite the likes of Tess, Baggs', smelly' and Drinky, and similar non-evolutionist self-exiles onto this thread to help and balance up the discussion ?

veya_victaous wrote:

darknessss wrote:............................
the "creator" spirit of the pagans is a different fish
he/she "created the conditions for the universe.....and then left it to "get on with it"
has no further interest except in "watching what happens"

and most certainly doesnt make any pretence about being able to "influence" whats happening
and no pretense that what we do will invoke any form of especial prais, favour or displeasure....

he/she  is undoubtedly of the opinion that "hey I gave you lot brains"...use em...and catch me up

And even then with a lot of the Pagan pantheons, there is the whole "for their amusement" aspect and the fact they are imperfect and can be down right twisted themselves... thus would take amusement in death and destruction. when we consider that all sentient life forms sustain their life through the consumption of other life forms.. the notion of a benevolent god seem quite laughable

   IT should be noted that Jehovah/Yawah/Allah was initially portrayed as an "Omnipotent" god in the Old Testament (just look at all that smiting and casting down..) and in the early days of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim churches...

IT WAS a few hundred years after both Christ and Mohammad had passed on, that the "powers that be" decided that God should be given an image makeover, and become a "benevolent, all caring and all-sharing, kinder and gentler" deity..

AND then Lucifer/Satan/Beezlebub had to be formally and conveniently promoted to a full-on Devil like being on a 'God-like' level to oppose God in those roles formerly covered by an omnipotent God-figure, from simply being a "fallen angel".      

Zack, star's question relates to creationism, which is a scientific assertion for what it's worth, about how the Earth and universe came to be.

Okay, I wouldn't call myself a "creationist" I'm not into labelling people tbh, but I do believe in God.
Now before anyone jumps on me I'll put this out there:

No, I do not go to church or follow any religious policies.
No, I do not believe in God because I think I'll go to Heaven.
No, I do not necessarily believe he "created earth" - but why the hell not, for the sake of this argument.

So. Let's answer this question first:
Why does God allow children to die?

Well, he made us and said, (in Morgan Freeman's voice because he is MY God in this thread):

"There you go, I have supplied you with the finest and only tool you'll ever need, I call it "brain" and within your brain you have your own individual choice and I call it Free Will"

We have Free Will and everything you can think of, originates from that.
The drunk driver? Free Will to get pissed and drive.
Who's fault? Not God. The man who chose to drink and drive.

Childhood illness: is this a cluster of cells that have "gone wrong" due to something man has done? Smoking? Pollution? Bad genes from past ancestors who ate poisonous berries or Emu shit?

Believing in God is like watching a Sci-fi movie. Whatever happens you,can make stuff up, or blame something alien, or soemthing past, or invent something!
But seriously, I truly believe we are the destroyers of our own lives and creators of our own lives simply by using our Free Will.

It all comes back to that.

I guess the dinosaurs destroyed themselves too then eds- did they 'cause' the meteor to wipe them all out?

So let me get this straight, Eddie believes it is our own making for an earthquake that kills children for example?

Eilzel wrote:I guess the dinosaurs destroyed themselves too then eds- did they 'cause' the meteor to wipe them all out?

Erm I quite clearly said humans had free will.
Never mentioned dinoSaurs.

Brasidas wrote:So let me get this straight, Eddie believes it is our own making for an earthquake that kills children for example?

Depends upon whether you believe in global warming or other man-made things causing earthquakes?
If they are just natural occurrence then that's not God's fault either is it?

I wouldn't be angry at God if I lost my child in an earthquake tbh
Perhaps my "faith" (loosely defined) would be tester if my child suffered at the hands of a freak accident.

My point is, most nasty things are a result of man's decsions and free will.

eddie wrote:

Brasidas wrote:So let me get this straight, Eddie believes it is our own making for an earthquake that kills children for example?

Depends upon whether you believe in global warming or other man-made things causing earthquakes?
If they are just natural occurrence  then that's not God's fault either is it?

I wouldn't be angry at God if I lost my child in an earthquake tbh
Perhaps my "faith" (loosely defined) would be tester if my child suffered at the hands of a freak accident.

My point is, most nasty things are a result of man's decsions and free will.

Are you having a bubble bath?
Earthquakes which have killed people for thousands of years is due to the recent man made global warming?
Behave
You claim to make a view losing a daughter never having lost a daughter?
Sorry Eddie you would have no conception how you will feel until it happened.
The fact is, if such a Deity or creator does exist, he either does not care or does not want to do anything about any wrongs. On both levels that is not something I would wish to believe in.
There is no such thing as free will, I used to think there was, but watch the vid I posted, there is nothing I have found that refutes him.





Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely.

The only sense to make of tragedies like this is that terrible things can happen to perfectly innocent people. This understanding inspires compassion.

Religious faith, on the other hand, erodes compassion. Thoughts like, 'this might be all part of God’s plan,' or 'there are no accidents in life,' or 'everyone on some level gets what he or she deserves' - these ideas are not only stupid, they are extraordinarily callous. They are nothing more than a childish refusal to connect with the suffering of other human beings. It is time to grow up and let our hearts break at moments like this.”

― Sam Harris

Brasidas wrote:

eddie wrote:

Brasidas wrote:So let me get this straight, Eddie believes it is our own making for an earthquake that kills children for example?

Depends upon whether you believe in global warming or other man-made things causing earthquakes?
If they are just natural occurrence  then that's not God's fault either is it?

I wouldn't be angry at God if I lost my child in an earthquake tbh
Perhaps my "faith" (loosely defined) would be tester if my child suffered at the hands of a freak accident.

My point is, most nasty things are a result of man's decsions and free will.

Are you having a bubble bath?
Earthquakes which have killed people for thousands of years is due to the recent man made global warming?
Behave
You claim to make a view losing a daughter never having lost a daughter?
Sorry Eddie you would have no conception how you will feel until it happened.
The fact is, if such a Deity or creator does exist, he either does not care or does not want to do anything about any wrongs. On both levels that is not something I would wish to believe in.
There is no such thing as free will, I used to think there was, but watch the vid I posted, there is nothing I have found that refutes him.





Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely.

The only sense to make of tragedies like this is that terrible things can happen to perfectly innocent people. This understanding inspires compassion.

Religious faith, on the other hand, erodes compassion. Thoughts like, 'this might be all part of God’s plan,' or 'there are no accidents in life,' or 'everyone on some level gets what he or she deserves' - these ideas are not only stupid, they are extraordinarily callous. They are nothing more than a childish refusal to connect with the suffering of other human beings. It is time to grow up and let our hearts break at moments like this.”

― Sam Harris

Didge we are all talking about something hyeethetically - God!!!!!!!
Of course I can speak hyperthetically about my daughter!!!
See? You presume you know so much about everything.
You know quite a small amount about a few things.

Anyhoo, like I was saying, some things are natural disasters, like some earthquakes, and some are manmade, Erm like some earthquakes.... Etc etc


And like I said, in this HYPERTHETICAL argument about God creating the earth, ALL ANSWERS THEREBY BEING HYPERTHETICAL , I believe that if God created man, it's man himself, that has created havoc and greed and destruction (as well as the flip side) through free will.

s'nowt to do wi "GOD"

he/she made the universe

and said

ger on wi it....

and then went partying

So lets play a game, trying to make a working divine creation

Suppose the Dimensional 'membranes'(from branes theory) that consist of 'Animus energy' (as proposed by Plato as the basis of soul) the energy is sort of like the skin of a detergent bubble.

2 of these membranes collide and much like detergent bubbles where a spray of detergent particles blast into the interior of the bubble, the energy which animates existence is blasted into the centre of the dimension these clouds of energy congeal into galaxies the energy Spirals compressing itself into the stars. leaving behind the a by-product, matter, swirling around their newly formed spheres of Animus energy

these balls of compressed animus then Radiate energy into the dimensional plane. within the dimensional plane energy converts to light and heat.

the 'Anima mundi', the will of the universe(or whatever is higher than universe in perspective, the container that holds the Multiverse), is still imprinted on the matter that was once energy that now spins around a star. that matter converts the light and heat back to Animus and becomes the first micro organism, matter containing animus thus being alive, that evolve into more complex beings that can convert light and heat into Animus and use it to build living matter.

the 'Anima mundi' is driven or the drive to advance to discover/learn/understand the nature of existence, all life is a part of it. So those beings that Convert light and heat into Animus and matter allow a new being to exist one that cannot convert the light and heat that is being radiated into this dimension through the compressed animus of a Star, back into animus and matter to sustain itself. it is the first that needs to consume the animus of others for the energy and matter required for it's continued existence.

Eds, we've discussed this before, if god made the universe he did so knowing there would be natural disasters that would wipe out life. I raised the dinosaurs because you often use 'human causes' even with things like earthquakes to absolve your god of responsibility. You see the problem? You don't blame the dinosaurs for the disasters and diseases they contended with yet you do with humans- because we are now and it is easier for you to ignore prehistoric facts if they inconvenience your argument.

God (IF you believe in one) creates life and causes its destruction, directly or indirectly. He/She/It did it with the dinosaurs and will ultimately do the same to humans.

People have faith because it makes them feel better (about what I don't know); and damn the inconvenient questions.

Or did god make a mistake when he set earthquakes in motion?

Eilzel wrote:Eds, we've discussed this before, if god made the universe he did so knowing there would be natural disasters that would wipe out life. I raised the dinosaurs because you often use 'human causes' even with things like earthquakes to absolve your god of responsibility. You see the problem? You don't blame the dinosaurs for the disasters and diseases they contended with yet you do with humans- because we are now and it is easier for you to ignore prehistoric facts if they inconvenience your argument.

God (IF you believe in one) creates life and causes its destruction, directly or indirectly. He/She/It did it with the dinosaurs and will ultimately do the same to humans.

People have faith because it makes them feel better (about what I don't know); and damn the inconvenient questions.

Or did god make a mistake when he set earthquakes in motion?

you see god is a bit like this

eddie wrote:

Brasidas wrote:



Are you having a bubble bath?
Earthquakes which have killed people for thousands of years is due to the recent man made global warming?
Behave
You claim to make a view losing a daughter never having lost a daughter?
Sorry Eddie you would have no conception how you will feel until it happened.
The fact is, if such a Deity or creator does exist, he either does not care or does not want to do anything about any wrongs. On both levels that is not something I would wish to believe in.
There is no such thing as free will, I used to think there was, but watch the vid I posted, there is nothing I have found that refutes him.





Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely.

The only sense to make of tragedies like this is that terrible things can happen to perfectly innocent people. This understanding inspires compassion.

Religious faith, on the other hand, erodes compassion. Thoughts like, 'this might be all part of God’s plan,' or 'there are no accidents in life,' or 'everyone on some level gets what he or she deserves' - these ideas are not only stupid, they are extraordinarily callous. They are nothing more than a childish refusal to connect with the suffering of other human beings. It is time to grow up and let our hearts break at moments like this.”

― Sam Harris

Didge we are all talking about something hyeethetically - God!!!!!!!
Of course I can speak hyperthetically about my daughter!!!
See? You presume you know so much about everything.
You know quite a small amount about a few things.

Anyhoo, like I was saying, some things are natural disasters, like some earthquakes, and some are manmade, Erm like some earthquakes.... Etc etc


And like I said, in this HYPERTHETICAL argument about God creating the earth, ALL ANSWERS THEREBY BEING HYPERTHETICAL , I believe that if God created man, it's man himself, that has created havoc and greed and destruction (as well as the flip side) through free will.  

Really you are telling me you can presume to know for a start how you would feel in such an event?
That shows you have no comprehension, you can think a million things to how you might feel, but come such an event, you will not doubt feel very different to how you expect which happened to many people. To claim you would not be angry and upset and at everything just shows you are not looking at your natural mother instinct.
The fact is if as you believe there is a God, he is unable to do anything to affect the state of play, or is able to do something and does nothing, which means this deity is nothing short of evil. Even Hypothetically, you are trying to excuse God of any blame, which is nothing short of passing the buck onto humans that have no part in the deaths of many people and as Sam Harris said is nothing short of callus.
The fact is there is many things that kill humans all out of hands and if there is a god, it sits back and does nothing about millions of children dying each year. By the time I have written this reply hundreds would have and you think that is mans fault for every single child dying?
Are you having a bubble bath? If God exists and created everything then it is God that creates everything that goes wrong in humans, from illness to evil, all of which you wish to excuse this god of.

Just to defend eddie's response real quick -- it's been noted that hydraulic frakking has been linked to earthquakes, like we've seen in parts of the U.S. that aren't earthquake-prone, and frakking is definitely a human activity.

As evidence I enter this song, about how in Texas, nothin' ever moves (recorded before frakking came along).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffbf0PhVgvY

Ben_Reilly wrote:Just to defend eddie's response real quick -- it's been noted that hydraulic frakking has been linked to earthquakes, like we've seen in parts of the U.S. that aren't earthquake-prone, and frakking is definitely a human activity.

As evidence I enter this song, about how in Texas, nothin' ever moves (recorded before frakking came along).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffbf0PhVgvY

So fracking has been responsible for every earthquake that has killed humans since their existance on this earth Ben

For fuck sake, that is daft beyond belief.

eddie wrote:Okay, I wouldn't call myself a "creationist" I'm not into labelling people tbh, but I do believe in God.
Now before anyone jumps on me I'll put this out there:

No, I do not go to church or follow any religious policies.
No, I do not believe in God because I think I'll go to Heaven.
No, I do not necessarily believe he "created earth" - but why the hell not, for the sake of this argument.

So. Let's answer this question first:
Why does God allow children to die?

Well, he made us and said, (in Morgan Freeman's voice because he is MY God in this thread):

"There you go, I have supplied you with the finest and only tool you'll ever need, I call it "brain" and within your brain you have your own individual choice and I call it Free Will"

We have Free Will and everything you can think of, originates from that.
The drunk driver? Free Will to get pissed and drive.
Who's fault? Not God. The man who chose to drink and drive.

Childhood illness: is this a cluster of cells that have "gone wrong" due to something man has done? Smoking? Pollution? Bad genes from past ancestors who ate poisonous berries or Emu shit?

Believing in God is like watching a Sci-fi movie. Whatever happens you,can make stuff up, or blame something alien, or soemthing past, or invent something!
But seriously, I truly believe we are the destroyers of our own lives and creators of our own lives simply by using our Free Will.

It all comes back to that.

Great Post
Im similar to Eddie, I don't think there is a beardy man in the sky but I do believe in God.
Its very simple if you believe in God then he exists.

Its fine if you don't believe but I don't understand the endless need to 'prove' he cannot exist. If you believe in God then no one has the right to anything other than their own views, they certainly don't have the right to pour scorn on or rubbish the beliefs of another.

Same question goes to you Nems:


Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely.

The only sense to make of tragedies like this is that terrible things can happen to perfectly innocent people. This understanding inspires compassion.

Religious faith, on the other hand, erodes compassion. Thoughts like, 'this might be all part of God’s plan,' or 'there are no accidents in life,' or 'everyone on some level gets what he or she deserves' - these ideas are not only stupid, they are extraordinarily callous. They are nothing more than a childish refusal to connect with the suffering of other human beings. It is time to grow up and let our hearts break at moments like this.”

― Sam Harris

Brasidas wrote:Same question goes to you Nems:


Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely.

The only sense to make of tragedies like this is that terrible things can happen to perfectly innocent people. This understanding inspires compassion.

Religious faith, on the other hand, erodes compassion. Thoughts like, 'this might be all part of God’s plan,' or 'there are no accidents in life,' or 'everyone on some level gets what he or she deserves' - these ideas are not only stupid, they are extraordinarily callous. They are nothing more than a childish refusal to connect with the suffering of other human beings. It is time to grow up and let our hearts break at moments like this.”

― Sam Harris

Morning Didge.
Just so you know I haven't missed this. I have told you before I cannot be bothered with your rudeness and fuckwittery.
Have a lovely day

Nems wrote:

Brasidas wrote:Same question goes to you Nems:


Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely.

The only sense to make of tragedies like this is that terrible things can happen to perfectly innocent people. This understanding inspires compassion.

Religious faith, on the other hand, erodes compassion. Thoughts like, 'this might be all part of God’s plan,' or 'there are no accidents in life,' or 'everyone on some level gets what he or she deserves' - these ideas are not only stupid, they are extraordinarily callous. They are nothing more than a childish refusal to connect with the suffering of other human beings. It is time to grow up and let our hearts break at moments like this.”

― Sam Harris

Morning Didge.
Just so you know I haven't missed this. I have told you before I cannot be bothered with your rudeness and fuckwittery.
Have a lovely day

Morning nems

I cannot be bothered with your excuses or that you are only back here to know doubt create more shit stirring because a certain poster is here.
How odd is that.

Have a lovelly day

Nems didge asked you a question is all. I don't see why you appeared on this thread just have a go at him.

And it must be said that just believing in something doesn't make it so. Fairies or gods...

And for many of us the question of god's existence is important- since irrational or blind delusion in the affirmative has resulted in immense suffering and evil throughout human history.

You don't need a "god" to tell you what's right and what's wrong, it's in your own head .

Eilzel wrote:Nems didge asked you a question is all. I don't see why you appeared on this thread just have a go at him.

And it must be said that just believing in something doesn't make it so. Fairies or gods...

And for many of us the question of god's existence is important- since irrational or blind delusion in the affirmative has resulted in immense suffering and evil throughout human history.

Tell you what Les, how about you post what you want to post and I will post what I want to post and answer what posts I want to answer

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Nems didge asked you a question is all. I don't see why you appeared on this thread just have a go at him.

And it must be said that just believing in something doesn't make it so. Fairies or gods...

And for many of us the question of god's existence is important- since irrational or blind delusion in the affirmative has resulted in immense suffering and evil throughout human history.

Tell you what Les, how about you post what you want to post and I will post what I want to post and answer what posts I want to answer

So in other words you are saying you do not have an answer to the questions posed then
Fair enough then, I hope someone else can answer this.

Eilzel wrote:Eds, we've discussed this before, if god made the universe he did so knowing there would be natural disasters that would wipe out life. I raised the dinosaurs because you often use 'human causes' even with things like earthquakes to absolve your god of responsibility. You see the problem? You don't blame the dinosaurs for the disasters and diseases they contended with yet you do with humans- because we are now and it is easier for you to ignore prehistoric facts if they inconvenience your argument.

God (IF you believe in one) creates life and causes its destruction, directly or indirectly. He/She/It did it with the dinosaurs and will ultimately do the same to humans.

People have faith because it makes them feel better (about what I don't know); and damn the inconvenient questions.

Or did god make a mistake when he set earthquakes in motion?

Perhaps the dinosaurs "killed themselves" by something they ate or didn't eat, or the weather killed them... Blah blah
I don't think it takes much imagination to think about why dinosaurs aren't here lol

I also do fall back in the old argument of "keeping numbers" down - it just makes sense!

Also, why does everyone assume God is all "good"??? Why??! Who says?
Perhaps he makes mistakes? Perhaps he is the best "we" (if he made us in his image?) can ever be? Perhaps he is what we must aim for? Not perfection, but an almost perfection.

Perhaps it is the non-believers that believe he is supposed to be perfect?
Perhaps he sighs everytime people claim he should be?!!

Perhaps, just perhaps, he is waiting tor someone to say:
Well, I'm nearly dead and I've been the best I can be, done the best I could ever have done, realised my mistakes and not repeated them, and I've loved and been loved wholeheartedly and with real intent, I've been as perfect as I could ever be and I'm content that I've been as near to whole as I could ever be.
My work is almost done."

Perhaps that's all he ever requires of anyone?
He throws the shit at you and the good stuff and it's up to you.

Perhaps it's a simple, yet as deep, as that?

*sigh* the numbers down argument is crap eds as I've pointed out many times- the global populated has increased about 5 fold since 1900, 7 billion people and counting.

So are you admitting your personal god is not perfect? Is he eternal?

And a big question- does he answer prayers?

^nems, I don't really care what you post BUT you hardly ever post here, made a big deal of being sick of didge elsewhere, then show up here just have a pop. It comes a cross a being out for trouble tbh.

Eilzel wrote:Zack, star's question relates to creationism, which is a scientific assertion for what it's worth, about how the Earth and universe came to be.

I was referring to the point why God would allow for such catastrophes as earthquakes and volcanoes.

My response is simple and accepted by those with scientific knowledge: destruction is part of construction.

Funny how many people choose to live near the boundaries of the earth's plates. Hmm!?

On dinosaurs, I know it takes no imagination why they died. A meteor strike is the most accepted theory- I guess the dinosaurs summoned that too?

You seem to be missing the reason I raised the point.

God, if you believe in one, MUST have created the dinosaurs, then either purposefully or accidentally killed them off OR was powerless to stop them dying.

In which case god is EITHER evil, flawed or not all powerful (and so ungodlike- remember a 'god' is a human term with a human meaning).

Eilzel wrote:On dinosaurs, I know it takes no imagination why they died. A meteor strike is the most accepted theory- I guess the dinosaurs summoned that too?

You seem to be missing the reason I raised the point.

God, if you believe in one, MUST have created the dinosaurs, then either purposefully or accidentally killed them off OR was powerless to stop them dying.

In which case god is EITHER evil, flawed or not all powerful (and so ungodlike- remember a 'god' is a human term with a human meaning).

Death and destruction is not evil. It's a part of life. Order always turns into chaos (entropy). It is a cycle needed for life to exist.

Ah but you see Zack as an atheist I'm comfortable with all those ideas. They do not however equate to an all-loving god.

Eilzel wrote:Ah but you see Zack as an atheist I'm comfortable with all those ideas. They do not however equate to an all-loving god.

But they do equate to a God who wishes for life to continue to thrive. Destruction plays a part in that, as proved by science.

Well have to say Zack, if he wants it to thrive, he's failing.

Brasidas wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Just to defend eddie's response real quick -- it's been noted that hydraulic frakking has been linked to earthquakes, like we've seen in parts of the U.S. that aren't earthquake-prone, and frakking is definitely a human activity.

As evidence I enter this song, about how in Texas, nothin' ever moves (recorded before frakking came along).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffbf0PhVgvY

So fracking has been responsible for every earthquake that has killed humans since their existance on this earth Ben

For fuck sake, that is daft beyond belief.

Wait, what? I was just pointing out that some earthquakes have been caused by human activity, chill out!

One day Earth will be destroyed and all life on Earth with it- did merciful Allah plan this? I'm not arguing the science, but 'god' didn't NEED to create a universe which works that way- unless you are saying god works within the restraints of natural laws, in which case he is not all powerful.

Eilzel wrote:One day Earth will be destroyed and all life on Earth with it- did merciful Allah plan this? I'm not arguing the science, but 'god' didn't NEED to create a universe which works that way- unless you are saying god works within the restraints of natural laws, in which case he is not all powerful.

God created a universe where life exists in a cycle of creation and destruction.

And science has proved this, without a doubt. In fact, it is one of the fundamental laws of physics and therefore 'nature'.

If you're not arguing with science, then there's no need to argue with God.

To answer your question directly: yes, Allah has set a definite timespan for all creation including the universe itself. For there is something better than life in this universe.