USA court says Shooting Unarmed people Ok and doesn't warrant a trial

PROTESTS have erupted across the US after a grand jury ruled that the white police officer who shot Michael Brown in Ferguson will not be charged over the unarmed black teen’s death.

The jury’s ruling that there was “no probable cause” to indict Darren Wilson over Brown’s shooting death in the St Louis suburb has caused shock, disbelief and inflamed already simmering racial tensions.

Protesters in Ferguson chanted “F--- the police” as news of the ruling filtered through. A police car outside the station was destroyed and police fired tear gas at demonstrators amid the chaos.

http://www.news.com.au/world/ferguson-grand-jury-rules-police-officer-darren-wilson-will-not-be-charged-over-shooting-of-michael-brown/story-fndir2ev-1227133720939

I know they are trying to Not have armed Revolution but
I think African Americans have been left with little choice.

For a court to rule there doesn't even need to be a trial... there is literally no way justice can exist while that judge does.

If Africans Americans Don't start actually fighting the Police like the terrorists and oppressors the police have Proven to be, they will end up slaves again they need to fight because it is obvious the state doesn't even consider them real people..

Court agrees that a lone police officer under attack from a thug has the right to defend himself.....




But all those other 'outraged' thugs will have forgotten about it all when they're back indoors with all their new stolen goods......

Tommy Monk wrote:Court agrees that a lone police officer under attack from a thug has the right to defend himself.....




But all those other 'outraged' thugs will have forgotten about it all when they're back indoors with all their new stolen goods......

You are repugnant.

The truth is sometimes repugnant.... but still the truth....




But I'm sure you think that all those thugs out there now who are burning, robbing and looting and destroying other peoples hard earned businesses are all lovely well mannered and law abiding decent pillars of society.....

Tommy Monk wrote:Court agrees that a lone police officer under attack from a thug has the right to defend himself.....

But all those other 'outraged' thugs will have forgotten about it all when they're back indoors with all their new stolen goods......

It wasn't the court, Toms.  It was a Grand Jury.  Juries are subject to prejudices; remember OJ Simpson was acquitted...some folks thought that was wrong, too.

This is just another in a long line of abuses of power coming down the pike.  Police terrorism is every bit the threat that 9/11 was in 2001.  Yet in certain areas of the country the people look aside, just as they did in Munich in 1933.  And keep in mind that this whole procedure is the product of a crooked district attorney, who has a severe conflict of interest.  In a decent state, like California, you've got the Brown Act, which makes such abuses highly illegal.

You have to look at this geographically and demographically.  The US South is decidedly racist, and that includes Missouri as well as Florida.  No offense to anyone, but this nation would be much better off if we cut out everything from the Ohio/Missouri Rivers south and the Rio Grand River east, gave them a swastika flag and showed them the door.

WTF, who needs Atlanta or St. Louis, when real civilization exists only in New York, Chicago and San Francisco? Two different countries, really.

But why when they riot do they burn their own shops and property?

We had the same thing here a couple of years ago, although Whites were responsible for some rioting it was mainly Blacks!

Was still a court quill, who had access to all the evidence and eye witness reports.



Wilson was attacked by this 6 don't 4 and 300 pounds thug And shot in dear of his life after brown went for his gun.




And yes it is a shame that blacks are so racist, as 90% of all interracial crime is against whites in The USA!!!



And if blacks weren't committing such a high crime rate and didn't have such a bad attitude then they would be treated with a bit more dignity and respect generally.

nicko wrote:But why when they riot do they burn their own shops and property?

We had the same thing here a couple of years ago,  although Whites were responsible for some rioting  it was mainly Blacks!

Really?

The ethnic makeup of the rioters varied in different cities: 76% of those arrested in Manchester were white, while 29% were white and 39% black in London, and the West Midlands was the only area where more than 6% were Asian

Want to retract that poor claim Nicko?
Again perceptions wrong, how many times do I show this to happen?

Your are arguing for the sake of again didge, do you live in b,ham? you do not, did you see it on tv in b,ham you did not, I did, I live there.

nicko wrote:Your are arguing for the sake of again didge, do you live in b,ham? you do not, did you see it on tv in b,ham you did not,  I did, I live there.

No I basically corrected the fact you were talking bullshit Nicko.
Yet you still clearly are wronglyu thinking that it was more blacks.
You seriously have one of the worst perceptions I have come across, or the fact you clearly hold a bias against blacks.
So which is it?

FUCK OFF know all.

nicko wrote:FUCK OFF know all.

What a fucking silly grumpy sad bigoted wally.

You cannot tell the overall ethnic make up of rioters by the relatively few who were arrested

Tommy Monk wrote:Was still a court quill, who had access to all the evidence and eye witness reports.

I'm not arguing that the proceedings took place in a courthouse.  But there are two entirely different bodies involved.  A court is a judge...an appointed officer of law who has the prerogative of determining the rules of law based upon his learning.  A jury is a group of general citizens whose role it is to decide upon the facts.  A judge is a specialist; a juror is a layman.

What happens in the case of a Grand Jury is that a group of laymen (generally 12) decide if there are sufficient facts to charge an individual with a crime.  As you can see, the trier (interpreter) of fact can let his biases intrude upon his determination.  That is what is happening in the South, in such places as Florida and Missouri, where their racist biases come into play.  That is in violation of the law, as is the district attorney having a conflict of interest.  This is why the system didn't work in this case.

Tommy Monk wrote:Wilson was attacked by this 6 don't 4 and 300 pounds thug And shot in dear of his life after brown went for his gun.

On the contrary, Officer Wilson stood 20-feet away and shot a firearm at the child in cold blood.

Tommy Monk wrote:And yes it is a shame that blacks are so racist, as 90% of all interracial crime is against whites in The USA!!!

Blacks cannot be racist against whites.  The whites have never been slaves in this country, so that there is no racial bias against them.  This has been true throughout all of the phases of prejudice in the US, including post-civil war, separate but equal, segregation and the general white racism that we have today. It is faux victim posturing to say that whites are targets of racism.  Everyone knows its untrue.

Tommy Monk wrote:And if blacks weren't committing such a high crime rate and didn't have such a bad attitude then they would be treated with a bit more dignity and respect generally.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Whites created and controlled the society in which they determined that Blacks would be slaves.  This led to a lack of status, wealth, education and dignity for the Black race.  The same manifest inequality has remained with us throughout the ages, with people like you trying to keep some form of the original slavery continuing on.

It will inevitably continue.  A leopard never changes his spots.  So I think the unrest and protest is a healthy thing.  As Moses said, Let my people go!  My solution is to divide the US in the manner I have described above.  Blacks and well-meaning White folks can live in peace and harmony, while the Southerners can kill each other off with their combination of stupidity, bigotry and guns.

"Blacks cannot be racist against whites..."




If you truly believe that you are completely deluded.

Tommy Monk wrote:"Blacks cannot be racist against whites..."

If you truly believe that you are completely deluded.

But, of course, you cannot argue the point.  I don't blame you.  Placed into historical context, there is no argument that whites could ever be the target of racial discrimination by blacks.

THOSE responsible for this decision not to even go to trial are truly MAD !!!

THE police-run political hacks on a fascist 'Grand Jury' who decided not to prosecute a cold-blooded killer were still apparently ready for trouble :
* Police out in force;
* "Lock Down" declared Ferguson before decision announced;
* National Guard told to be on stand-by for last night and today;
* Schools around the Ferguson area closed for today..

NOT a good look for America's minority white supremacist nongs today ~ deliberately fomenting civil unrest in Missouri and across the wider USA.



re: Tommy "gun" Monk and nicko "no clue" - and their typical support for their fellow racists.

THEIR rubbish responses are only as to be expected from our resident racists and ignorant xenophobes..

AS ALWAYS, those two disgusting little maggots have to prove just how stupidly twisted and hate-filled they will always be...      

I despair.....

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Was still a court quill, who had access to all the evidence and eye witness reports.

I'm not arguing that the proceedings took place in a courthouse.  But there are two entirely different bodies involved.  A court is a judge...an appointed officer of law who has the prerogative of determining the rules of law based upon his learning.  A jury is a group of general citizens whose role it is to decide upon the facts.  A judge is a specialist; a juror is a layman.

What happens in the case of a Grand Jury is that a group of laymen (generally 12) decide if there are sufficient facts to charge an individual with a crime.  As you can see, the trier (interpreter) of fact can let his biases intrude upon his determination.  That is what is happening in the South, in such places as Florida and Missouri, where their racist biases come into play.  That is in violation of the law, as is the district attorney having a conflict of interest.  This is why the system didn't work in this case.

Tommy Monk wrote:Wilson was attacked by this 6 don't 4 and 300 pounds thug And shot in dear of his life after brown went for his gun.

On the contrary, Officer Wilson stood 20-feet away and shot a firearm at the child in cold blood.

Tommy Monk wrote:And yes it is a shame that blacks are so racist, as 90% of all interracial crime is against whites in The USA!!!

Blacks cannot be racist against whites.  The whites have never been slaves in this country, so that there is no racial bias against them.  This has been true throughout all of the phases of prejudice in the US, including post-civil war, separate but equal, segregation and the general white racism that we have today. It is faux victim posturing to say that whites are targets of racism.  Everyone knows its untrue.

Tommy Monk wrote:And if blacks weren't committing such a high crime rate and didn't have such a bad attitude then they would be treated with a bit more dignity and respect generally.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Whites created and controlled the society in which they determined that Blacks would be slaves.  This led to a lack of status, wealth, education and dignity for the Black race.  The same manifest inequality has remained with us throughout the ages, with people like you trying to keep some form of the original slavery continuing on.

It will inevitably continue.  A leopard never changes his spots.  So I think the unrest and protest is a healthy thing.  As Moses said, Let my people go!  My solution is to divide the US in the manner I have described above.  Blacks and well-meaning White folks can live in peace and harmony, while the Southerners can kill each other off with their combination of stupidity, bigotry and guns.

Excellent post, except one point, anyone can be racist, which does include black people.
You do realise that whites have been slaves too Quill

a grand jury in the US decided to not indict Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson for the shooting death of Michael Brown, an unarmed man, on August 9. Michael Brown was shot 12 times and had his hands in the air when the first shot was fired.

Almost immediately rallies happened around the country, but the media’s focus has been on Ferguson where the killing happened and has been the focus of continued protest.

How people are feeling

Online reaction from the black community has been swift and devastating about the state of racism.

Petti LaBelle: “My seven year old son just said: “Don’t worry mom. If we want to live, we just need to stay home”. I’m turning off the tv. My heart is broke.”

mdthwomp: “Unfriendly reminder that in America it’s reasonable to say an unarmed black kid deserved to be shot six times because he might have robbed a convenience store, but a white kid shouldn’t be kicked off the high school football team just because he violently raped a girl. #and filmed it #and shared it online.”

Every aspect of the Michael Brown’s killing, reaction to the verdict and media coverage shows that racial discrimination is still strong in the US.

the quotes from the online response are pretty thought provoking.

Ok Russia is Now Trolling the USA over Ferguson





“Ferguson self-defense forces have spontaneously appeared and are ready to defend its restless citizens against the repressions of the Washington junta!”


If protests against Putin two years ago had been like that, he wrote, “they would have declared Russia the Evil Empire. But in America it’s called democracy.”

Brasidas wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I'm not arguing that the proceedings took place in a courthouse.  But there are two entirely different bodies involved.  A court is a judge...an appointed officer of law who has the prerogative of determining the rules of law based upon his learning.  A jury is a group of general citizens whose role it is to decide upon the facts.  A judge is a specialist; a juror is a layman.

What happens in the case of a Grand Jury is that a group of laymen (generally 12) decide if there are sufficient facts to charge an individual with a crime.  As you can see, the trier (interpreter) of fact can let his biases intrude upon his determination.  That is what is happening in the South, in such places as Florida and Missouri, where their racist biases come into play.  That is in violation of the law, as is the district attorney having a conflict of interest.  This is why the system didn't work in this case.



On the contrary, Officer Wilson stood 20-feet away and shot a firearm at the child in cold blood.



Blacks cannot be racist against whites.  The whites have never been slaves in this country, so that there is no racial bias against them.  This has been true throughout all of the phases of prejudice in the US, including post-civil war, separate but equal, segregation and the general white racism that we have today. It is faux victim posturing to say that whites are targets of racism.  Everyone knows its untrue.



Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Whites created and controlled the society in which they determined that Blacks would be slaves.  This led to a lack of status, wealth, education and dignity for the Black race.  The same manifest inequality has remained with us throughout the ages, with people like you trying to keep some form of the original slavery continuing on.

It will inevitably continue.  A leopard never changes his spots.  So I think the unrest and protest is a healthy thing.  As Moses said, Let my people go!  My solution is to divide the US in the manner I have described above.  Blacks and well-meaning White folks can live in peace and harmony, while the Southerners can kill each other off with their combination of stupidity, bigotry and guns.

Excellent post, except one point, anyone can be racist, which does include black people.
You do realise that whites have been slaves too Quill

But not in the US.  We are not arguing definitions here.  Slavery and the consequential racism in the US has a history.  The minds and attitudes developed thereunder are molded within that history.  African Americans cannot be accused of racism against whites.  There is virtually no history of any such thing.  

Any attempt to characterize it otherwise is simply victim posturing by the right.

Original Quill wrote:

Brasidas wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I'm not arguing that the proceedings took place in a courthouse.  But there are two entirely different bodies involved.  A court is a judge...an appointed officer of law who has the prerogative of determining the rules of law based upon his learning.  A jury is a group of general citizens whose role it is to decide upon the facts.  A judge is a specialist; a juror is a layman.

What happens in the case of a Grand Jury is that a group of laymen (generally 12) decide if there are sufficient facts to charge an individual with a crime.  As you can see, the trier (interpreter) of fact can let his biases intrude upon his determination.  That is what is happening in the South, in such places as Florida and Missouri, where their racist biases come into play.  That is in violation of the law, as is the district attorney having a conflict of interest.  This is why the system didn't work in this case.



On the contrary, Officer Wilson stood 20-feet away and shot a firearm at the child in cold blood.



Blacks cannot be racist against whites.  The whites have never been slaves in this country, so that there is no racial bias against them.  This has been true throughout all of the phases of prejudice in the US, including post-civil war, separate but equal, segregation and the general white racism that we have today. It is faux victim posturing to say that whites are targets of racism.  Everyone knows its untrue.



Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Whites created and controlled the society in which they determined that Blacks would be slaves.  This led to a lack of status, wealth, education and dignity for the Black race.  The same manifest inequality has remained with us throughout the ages, with people like you trying to keep some form of the original slavery continuing on.

It will inevitably continue.  A leopard never changes his spots.  So I think the unrest and protest is a healthy thing.  As Moses said, Let my people go!  My solution is to divide the US in the manner I have described above.  Blacks and well-meaning White folks can live in peace and harmony, while the Southerners can kill each other off with their combination of stupidity, bigotry and guns.

Excellent post, except one point, anyone can be racist, which does include black people.
You do realise that whites have been slaves too Quill

But not in the US.  We are not arguing definitions here.  Slavery and the consequential racism in the US has a history.  The minds and attitudes developed thereunder are molded within that history.  African Americans cannot be accused of racism against whites.  There is virtually no history of any such thing.  

Any attempt to characterize it otherwise is simply victim posturing by the right.

African Americans CAN be accused of racism against whites. but that cant be accused of OPPRESSION
You regularly see African Americans being Racist as someone looking in from the outside they are definitely Racist too.

I know Aussies get Racist treatment from African Americans that incorrectly believe that Aussies have the same history as the USA when they are almost complete opposites.... Not all whites are the same. to judge anyone on skin colour alone is wrong.

I am not suggesting that is the African Americans fault and the responsibility to enact change definitely sits with the White American as they control the agents of change.

And NONE of that in anyway justifies the sort of oppression that the African Americans Currently gets in many areas where they are routinely murdered by cops. That is Injustice of the Highest Order and literally what we demonise groups like ISIS for doing ('officials' murdering minorities without repercussion)

it seems pretty crazy over there lots of protests and riots, although also lots of reports that the media are focusing on the few rioters and not the majority of peaceful protesters.

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

But not in the US.  We are not arguing definitions here.  Slavery and the consequential racism in the US has a history.  The minds and attitudes developed thereunder are molded within that history.  African Americans cannot be accused of racism against whites.  There is virtually no history of any such thing.  

Any attempt to characterize it otherwise is simply victim posturing by the right.

African Americans CAN be accused of racism against whites. but that cant be accused of OPPRESSION
You regularly see African Americans being Racist as someone looking in from the outside they are definitely Racist too.

Now you are back to the definition game. Try 'alienated' or 'indifferent' and I think it works better. The use of 'racism' against African Americans is a white, right-wing game.

veya_victaous wrote:I know Aussies get Racist treatment from African Americans that incorrectly believe that Aussies have the same history as the USA when they are almost complete opposites.... Not all whites are the same. to judge anyone on skin colour alone is wrong.

No, that's just everyday paranoia.

veya_victaous wrote:I am not suggesting that is the African Americans fault and the responsibility to enact change definitely sits with the White American as they control the agents of change.

And NONE of that in anyway justifies the sort of oppression that the African Americans Currently gets in many areas where they are routinely murdered by cops. That is Injustice of the Highest Order and literally what we demonise groups like ISIS for doing ('officials' murdering minorities without repercussion)

See, that's why playing the definition game pales in comparison to reality...or history, as I put it. How many of these America kills a niggah things have we lived through, now? There's Trayvon Martin, Oscar Grant, Jordon Davis, Renisha McBride...and now Michael Brown. It gets tedious, don't it?

Now comes along some white Republican and complains about racism because of affirmative action in college entrance admissions, or some such shit. It ain't the same thing. It's what they call a false equivalency.

Original Quill wrote:

Brasidas wrote:


Excellent post, except one point, anyone can be racist, which does include black people.
You do realise that whites have been slaves too Quill

But not in the US.  We are not arguing definitions here.  Slavery and the consequential racism in the US has a history.  The minds and attitudes developed thereunder are molded within that history.  African Americans cannot be accused of racism against whites.  There is virtually no history of any such thing.  

Any attempt to characterize it otherwise is simply victim posturing by the right.

Babble, anyone by definition can be racist, where it has nothing to do with slavery where a person can be racist and there is those that do propose blacks as superior, so again you are just as per usual making up a load of bullshit. The very fact is history is for ever changing and a prime example of racism turning on its head is Zimbabwe. So to say Black Americans cannot be accused of racism is both short sighted and utterly wrong. It has nothing to with left or right wing views, being as you do have black conservatives


So even though you are American, you have thus never heard of the following:

1.1 Nation of Islam
1.2 Nation of Yahweh
1.3 New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense
1.4 The Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ
1.5 Tribu Ka, Génération Kémi Séba
1.6 United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy

You really dp come out with the biggest load of bullshit ever at times, I loose respect for people who clearly have not only been exposed telling porkies as you have done but know bugger all about your own history

"...African Americans cannot be accused of racism against whites.  There is virtually no history of any such thing...."




You are completely detached from reality!




Blacks are even racist against other blacks of different country origins.




I agree with Veya up to A point, it's good That he finally admits that you can't judge all whites by the actions of A historical few, but it is not whites who are now the cause or to be blamed for preventing advancement of the blacks of today in USA or UK etc, it is the blacks themselves who overwhelmingly continue to choose to behave in a way that creates the majority of the problems for themselves that they then complain about.


They need to start realising that respect is a two way street and they need to earn the respect from others by showing it rather than demanding it while giving nobody else any respect at all.....

Tommy Monk wrote:"...African Americans cannot be accused of racism against whites.  There is virtually no history of any such thing...."
You are completely detached from reality!
Blacks are even racist against other blacks of different country origins.
I agree with Veya up to A point, it's good That he finally admits that you can't judge all whites by the actions of A historical few, but it is not whites who are now the cause or to be blamed for preventing advancement of the blacks of today in USA or UK etc, it is the blacks themselves who overwhelmingly continue to choose to behave in a way that creates the majority of the problems for themselves that they then complain about.
They need to start realising that respect is a two way street and they need to earn the respect from others by showing it rather than demanding it while giving nobody else any respect at all.....

Started off well then ended utterly racist also and I wonder if you can see as to why.
Many blacks have advanced the first black president is living proof many have. There is still great problems of poverty within areas of the US which encompasses more blacks than it does white and that they do and still face institutionalized racism, all of which you are ignoring at every turn. The very fact you do not recognise where there is countless evidence to show many blacks are still being disadvantaged within many aspects of employment, schooling etc. These cannot be denied and it shows you have a lack of understanding of the social structure within the United States.
Yes anyone can be racist as I pointed out, but the sad fact is many black americans are still facing this racism today

They are victims of their own actions and behaviour.....




They have every opportunity thrown at them.




The only thing holding them back is themselves....

Tommy Monk wrote:They are victims of their own actions and behaviour.....
They have every opportunity thrown at them. The only thing holding them back is themselves....

Seriously just repeating your stupidity is not a valid counter.
Sdo you recognise there is problems still with how espcially within the South Black Americans face discrmination?

Discrimination?



They have the same rights and opportunities as everyone else....

Tommy Monk wrote:Discrimination?



They have the same rights and opportunities as everyone else....

They are suposed to have the same rights, but that just does not happen in many cases.
Which shows you needed to be educated on this subject:


‘Jobless Discrimination’ Against African Americans

http://reimaginerpe.org/18-2/nittle

https://www.dosomething.org/facts/11-facts-about-racial-discrimination

NOTE that despite all their bravado and braggadocio over the weekend, NO loons from the white-pointy-hoods brigade made it to town for the protests ~ probably too busy preparing their next song-and-dance-act presentations for show on YouTube..

2,000 National Guard on the streets;
Another 2,000 called in to be 'On Standby' if needed...

I WONDER how many people in Missouri realise yet that their whole state has been under Martial Law since Monday, at their Governor's consideration ?      

*********************************************************

    TOMMY MONK !  TM proves once again that he truly doesn't have a clue...  
Or a brain, to help and find such clues..

HE makes that same kind of all-too-common mistake that so many other unobservant and 'non thinkers with the same kinds of bigotry and selfish agendas tend to make all too often.  
WHERE he has 'latched onto' one example of some negative behaviour by some examples of his targets [In this case, those minority that are offered a hand up but choose to ignore them..], and then goes on to attempt to extrapolate some singular examples out to where he likes to claim that it's a common trait...
AND THEN attempts to make the ridiculous and familiar racist claim that his one observed miscreant at home gives him some world wide "universal" truth to back his facile and juvenile neo-nazi/white supremacist beliefs..      

Brasidas wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

But not in the US.  We are not arguing definitions here.  Slavery and the consequential racism in the US has a history.  The minds and attitudes developed thereunder are molded within that history.  African Americans cannot be accused of racism against whites.  There is virtually no history of any such thing.  

Any attempt to characterize it otherwise is simply victim posturing by the right.

Babble, anyone by definition can be racist, where it has nothing to do with slavery where a person can be racist and there is those that do propose blacks as superior, so again you are just as per usual making up a load of bullshit. The very fact is history is for ever changing and a prime example of racism turning on its head is Zimbabwe. So to say Black Americans cannot be accused of racism is both short sighted and utterly wrong. It has nothing to with left or right wing views, being as you do have black conservatives

YOU JUST SAID IT!!! "By definition..." You own words. Anything can be true "by definition." Even flying saucers and bigfoot. If I say, Lot's of people claim to have seen flying saucers, that is a true statement by definition. Does it prove that flying saucers exist? No.

What I'm saying is that absent a semantic (definitional) argument, whites cannot be the target of racism. If you call it racism, it turns out to be racism through the chemistry of language. But in the real world does such racism exist? No.

Brasidas wrote:So even though you are American, you have thus never heard of the following:

1.1 Nation of Islam
1.2 Nation of Yahweh
1.3 New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense
1.4 The Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ
1.5 Tribu Ka, Génération Kémi Séba
1.6 United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy

You really dp come out with the biggest load of bullshit ever at times, I loose respect for people who clearly have not only been exposed telling porkies as you have done but know bugger all about your own history

You are an 'easy-language' orator, Didge. There is an old saying about sophists like you: A coincidence of words leads to a confusion of ideas, and you have it bad. Lol. That's putting it kindly. I really do think you intentionally twist things.

Sophistry is rampant on the right wing. As I've explained elsewhere, that is because conservatives are apologists for past ideas (indeed, that's what 'conservative' means...to conserve). See generally, FA Hayek, Why I'm Not a Conservative, http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/articles/hayek-why-i-am-not-conservative.pdf. Two things occur when you enter that state: 1) you lose the ability to think (encapsulated in the old phrase, use it or lose it!; and 2) you begin to engage in sleight-of-hand logic. The first is the reason why conservatives generally can invent jingoes, but fail completely to comprehend ideas. Second, because they no longer embrace new ideas, they tend to use their mind to invent slippery logic games.

Playing with definitions is probably the ultimate logic game. What better--albeit dishonest--way to debate than to twist and contort the meanings of words. We see this all the time with conservatives and their mental habits. Take a known historical event: Joan of Arc was burned at the stake. A conservative will argue: The English paid the heating bill for poor Joan that month! Obviously, that's a comical example, but in fact that is precisely what a conservative will do to twist an argument.

The term "Racism" is one such successful ploy—so successful that even liberals get sucked into the logic. It is devastating to be called a racists. In the US, it incorporates visions and memories of unspeakable inhumanity. So, if we turn all of that tenor into a mere logical game, we do not have to suffer the pictures…the stigma. Here's what conservatives have done: they have turned the history of slavery and racism into a mathematical calculus, and twisted the meaning of racism into 'any criticism or characterization based upon genetics.' Voilà...conservatives have neutralized the concept.

Only I am here to call it bullshit. And shame on the liberals who haven’t caught on. It's a false equivalency...racism isn't a term about mere differences in genetics, its a history about real world events, perpetuated by old white men. Those same old white men try to mind-fuck you with turning the word into a bad that happens to everyone. Only it didn't happen to everyone. It only happened to Blacks.

Just PMSL, whites cannot be the target of racism?

That has to be the biggest load of bullshit I have yet to be pounded with.

How else can something be if not by defintion, to then crate your own view to a word is then giving new meaning to the word and not by definition.

Fuck me, I have never seen more twists and turns, than since I watched the Olympic 10 meter diving board competition.

All this babble about conservatism, when people of all political views can be racist, no matter their ethnicity is just confusing the matter of racism. Seriously, there is no denying this and whilst white Europeans have been the biggest proponents of racism, many nations have engaged in slavery, which is the worst form of racism, which includes many African nations, as well as Asian, Middle East etc.

Please can we have the rational Quill back please and not the one that has clearly gone off the rails.

Fuck me

They all have the same opportunities.



Those who wish to apply themselves, get ththeir heads down, study hard and strive to achieve will do well.




Those who don't, won't.



That is the result of their own decisions and behaviour so suck it up and stop trying to blame everyone else and just keep moaning "is it cos I is black!?" Bullshit!!!

Er that does not address the problem of discrimination, or more to the point you ignoring it.
If people are advantaged because of their skin colour then there is an issue.
Again you have not addressed this

You mean like the racist policy of 'affirmative action'....?

Tommy Monk wrote:You mean like the racist policy of 'affirmative action'....?

That is positive discrimination to address the discrimination.
It is not racist nor something I agree with so your point has no relevance to the fact many blacks receive discrimination in America and thus deflecting from my points as you always do

Bullshit.

Yes thanks for your answer, because that is all we ever read you post.

Oh well as per usual Tommy is stuck, can someone take him off pause please.

Original Quill wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

But not in the US.  We are not arguing definitions here.  Slavery and the consequential racism in the US has a history.  The minds and attitudes developed thereunder are molded within that history.  African Americans cannot be accused of racism against whites.  There is virtually no history of any such thing.  

Any attempt to characterize it otherwise is simply victim posturing by the right.

African Americans CAN be accused of racism against whites. but that cant be accused of OPPRESSION
You regularly see African Americans being Racist as someone looking in from the outside they are definitely Racist too.

Now you are back to the definition game.  Try 'alienated' or 'indifferent' and I think it works better.  The use of 'racism' against African Americans is a white, right-wing game.

veya_victaous wrote:I know Aussies get Racist treatment from African Americans that incorrectly believe that Aussies have the same history as the USA when they are almost complete opposites.... Not all whites are the same. to judge anyone on skin colour alone is wrong.

No, that's just everyday paranoia.

veya_victaous wrote:I am not suggesting that is the African Americans fault and the responsibility to enact change definitely sits with the White American as they control the agents of change.

And NONE of that in anyway justifies the sort of oppression that the African Americans Currently gets in many areas where they are routinely murdered by cops. That is Injustice of the Highest Order and literally what we demonise groups like ISIS for doing ('officials' murdering minorities without repercussion)

See, that's why playing the definition game pales in comparison to reality...or history, as I put it.  How many of these America kills a niggah things have we lived through, now?  There's Trayvon Martin, Oscar Grant, Jordon Davis, Renisha McBride...and now Michael Brown.  It gets tedious, don't it?

Now comes along some white Republican and complains about racism because of affirmative action in college entrance admissions, or some such shit.  It ain't the same thing.  It's what they call a false equivalency.

But Races exist outside America too and the issue is also the poor education in America.

see this is also part of the issue they only view the world through the US dynamic. the world is much broader and they can see the way they get treated in some states is not normal and is not the way it has to be.

And no it is racism they say things along the lines of 'your white your ancestors owned slaves' when Slavery has never been legal in Australia and the closest thing to it is convict labour and that is almost exclusively white people. the social division you see between whites and blacks in the USA are between Rich and Poor which are the poor are more likely to be Irish/Welsh/Scottish. Skin Colour is not a good way to judge people in any circumstance.
Can an African American look at you and judge you to be the same as Darren Wilson because you share the same skin colour? it is important to make sure African Americans actually realise their are people like you too. they are not 'alone' they are not unsupported, the solution is Races working together. the African that is judging people on the skin needs to know that makes them the same as the redneck judging him, being the victims more often means they should be more likely to appreciate that it is wrong. the goal of good men is summed up by Martin Luther King (although we could add women and all other colours too)

a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

it is important that the definition is clear, Racism is Racism but Racism doesn't always come with oppression and their is non-impacting Racism such as positive stereotypes....
but interestedly Oppression almost always comes with some sort of 'ism. look at all the groups that were denied rights in the past because of their race or gender. the REAL issue is the oppression the denial of rights, Brown was denied the right to justice, to fair trial to presumption of innocence. the State Employee has literally been Judge Jury and Executioner, and the state has said they fine with that.
That is the most offensive thing to Good people as it should be when the state denies the unalienable rights of life. If Michael Brown was White Yellow or any shade between it would still be a travesty of Justice that his murder is not even getting a trial

UK support for Ferguson

Seems like everyone has forgotten the high level of blacks who don't give a fuck about other blacks as shown an the huge numbers of black on black crime, violence and murders and that blacks also don't care much for the lives of whites either and that in USA, 90% of interacial crime is against whites!!!



But now I'm supposed to care about some giant thug who was attacking a police officer and who subsequently shot and killed by the officer in self defence???

Tommy Monk wrote:Seems like everyone has forgotten the high level of blacks who don't give a fuck about other blacks as shown an the huge numbers of black on black crime, violence and murders and that blacks also don't care much for the lives of whites either and that in USA, 90% of interacial crime is against whites!!!

But now I'm supposed to care about some giant thug who was attacking a police officer and who subsequently shot and killed by the officer in self defence???

No, they just don't believe in bullshit, tommy.  Statistics!  That is the very dehumanizing element that leads to Ferguson-type insensitivity.  Have you ever known, or even seen a black person toms?  Doesn't sound like it.

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Now you are back to the definition game.  Try 'alienated' or 'indifferent' and I think it works better.  The use of 'racism' against African Americans is a white, right-wing game.



No, that's just everyday paranoia.



See, that's why playing the definition game pales in comparison to reality...or history, as I put it.  How many of these America kills a niggah things have we lived through, now?  There's Trayvon Martin, Oscar Grant, Jordon Davis, Renisha McBride...and now Michael Brown.  It gets tedious, don't it?

Now comes along some white Republican and complains about racism because of affirmative action in college entrance admissions, or some such shit.  It ain't the same thing.  It's what they call a false equivalency.

But Races exist outside America too and the issue is also the poor education in America.

see this is also part of the issue they only view the world through the US dynamic. the world is much broader and they can see the way they get treated in some states is not normal and is not the way it has to be.

And no it is racism they say things along the lines of 'your white your ancestors owned slaves' when Slavery has never been legal in Australia and the closest thing to it is convict labour and that is almost exclusively white people. the social division you see between whites and blacks in the USA are between Rich and Poor which are the poor are more likely to be Irish/Welsh/Scottish. Skin Colour is not a good way to judge people in any circumstance.
Can an African American look at you and judge you to be the same as Darren Wilson because you share the same skin colour? it is important to make sure African Americans actually realise their are people like you too. they are not 'alone' they are not unsupported, the solution is Races working together. the African that is judging people on the skin needs to know that makes them the same as the redneck judging him, being the victims more often means they should be more likely to appreciate that it is wrong. the goal of good men is summed up by Martin Luther King (although we could add women and all other colours too)

a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

it is important that the definition is clear, Racism is Racism but Racism doesn't always come with oppression and their is non-impacting Racism such as positive stereotypes....
but interestedly Oppression almost always comes with some sort of 'ism. look at all the groups that were denied rights in the past because of their race or gender. the REAL issue is the oppression the denial of rights, Brown was denied the right to justice, to fair trial to presumption of innocence. the State Employee has literally been Judge Jury and Executioner, and the state has said they fine with that.
That is the most offensive thing to Good people as it should be when the state denies the unalienable rights of life. If Michael Brown was White Yellow or any shade between it would still be a travesty of Justice that his murder is not even getting a trial

Of course you are right, veya. But first things first. We can all agree that good is good, and bad is bad, but we've got real problems here...bigger fish to fry and all that. We've got real white cops, with grease-smelling firearms, shooting cordite-spitting projectiles to people whose only crime is being born of a mother with a certain genetic skin pigmentation. I mean...y'all want to gloss it over, but these are live organisms making a living on murdering live organism.

We've got fat, old white men, in their officious blue uniforms, indiscriminately murdering real, live human beings. They are elected, or appointed to office by a community of old, white people who have no compassion for anyone but themselves. And it is endemic to America. Not casual. Not occasional or rare. But endemic. It's as if it was born here.

As it that isn't enough, we have individuals just like tommy off in some dark gutter somewhere, not only doing 'bad' but layering a dermis of evil over the inflammation, nurturing and protecting the very cancer that must be cut out.

Ah well...please carry on.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Seems like everyone has forgotten the high level of blacks who don't give a fuck about other blacks as shown an the huge numbers of black on black crime, violence and murders and that blacks also don't care much for the lives of whites either and that in USA, 90% of interacial crime is against whites!!!

But now I'm supposed to care about some giant thug who was attacking a police officer and who subsequently shot and killed by the officer in self defence???

No, they just don't believe in bullshit, tommy.  Statistics!  That is the very dehumanizing element that leads to Ferguson-type insensitivity.  Have you ever known, or even seen a black person toms?  Doesn't sound like it.

Those statistics are based on official crime figures and quite widely circulated and refereed to as being accurate.


And yes, I have friends and family of different racial backgrounds.


Plus I have lived in southeast London all my life.