10 mysterious photos that cannot be explained

by eddie Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:46 am

First topic message reminder :

A picture is said to be worth a thousand words, though fact versus fable can be difficult to determine when evidence is limited and theories run wild. Stories associated with these images are not easy to explain or even not at all probable.

Here are 10 of the most mysterious and unexplained photos that probably have an altogether explanation:

http://themindunleashed.org/2014/11/10-mysterious-photos-explained.html

Very short video showing the pics

by Original Quill Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:08 am

I'm absolutely convinced she was in the company of someone off to the left as we look out the elevator doors. You can read it in her gestures.

When she is outside, it is obvious that her right shoulder signals the resignation droop...a kind of capitulation gesture. Right after, she raises her arms in a 'stick-em-up' gesture, and then returns to the interior of the car...whereupon she goes directly to the panel and begins pushing all the buttons. Was this an attempt to escape, or was she being ordered?

Then she returns outside the car. She side-steps to her left. Then turns to her right and commences the hand gestures. My question is, is this at her own volition, or is she being told what to do? First, I need to study them more to see what she is trying to do.

by veya_victaous Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:41 am

by eddie Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:07 am

captainJane wrote:"I want to take a closer look at her hand gestures."

To me it seemed as if she was doing some kind of ritual dance or move at times, as if she was or was supposed to be in some kind of trace, when she was outside of the lift.

I agree. The moves are unnatural. There is also no real fear or panic on her face.
Perhaps, rather than having so someone "after" her, she is working "with" someone to do something and they're both trying to be quiet?

Where us the video surveillance of the hallway outside the lift??

by Original Quill Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:01 pm

I don't think it was a friend. First, there is her attempt to hide. Second, there is someone who frightens her at 131. Third, when she goes outside the car and side-steps to the left, all you can see is her right shoulder and arm. Clearly, at one point the shoulder collapses, as if in resignation at being caught...or some kind of disappointment.

The hand dance is something else.

by Lone Wolf Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:29 pm

by Original Quill Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:10 pm

As she reenters the elevator (2:08) she appears to drop her arms as if she is temporarily released. It is then she begins to push all of the buttons (2:13 to 2:28), as if trying to escape. Then she appears to be called outside the car again (2:30). Then she is slightly to the left (2:33) of the doors and turns right (2:35). She seems to greet someone before her, but is invisible; she holds out her left hand (2:36) as if allowing a dog to sniff it. She does a stroking gesture with her right hand (2:38). Her left hand is raised, palm down (2:38) at the same time, as if touching or patting someone on the head. She pets five times (2:38-2:43). Whatever she is touching or petting moves up and to the left (2:42) as she continues to pet. Then she cuts off petting (2:43) with a gesture of the right hand.

From the kinetics, she appears to be greeting and petting a large dog. She appears to hold out her hand allowing it to smell her (2:36), then begins with the petting motion. At 2:42 the supposed dog appears to move toward whomever she is talking to. She makes a gesture like shoving the dog off of her (2:43).

She appears to turn to her left and hold up her hand as if taking something invisible from someone off to the left and raise it above about chest-high (2:50). She appears to be doing something with (placing a collar or hat upon) her hands, as her hands are moving around something (2:52-2:57). She looks almost as if she is being manacled. She drops her arm (2:59). Then she stands facing forward (3:00), lifts her right arm (3:03) or someone is taking her by her hands, and she takes a step forward (3:04), then steps off frame to the left (3:05-3:06).

Now she is gone (3:06). The door closes first time (3:36-3:40). The door opens (3:50-3:54). A large, faint bloodstain is on the hall floor covering. from left to right, all of the visible floor. The door closes (4:01-4:05). At 4:19-4:23 the door opens and the hallway is suddenly colored in orange (4:20). It is similar to the result of a bleach-bypass effect:

”But there’s a problem. When you do this, you get an image that’s much darker than the original, so much so that it’s very difficult to do anything with it. We’re used to working with positive images, whereas this bleach bypass process was used during negative processes. If you apply it to a negative, it produces a darker, denser image, but since it’s a negative, it’s a much lighter print.” http://www.maclife.com/article/howtos/how_bleach_images_photoshop

There is a faint bloodstain pattern on the hall floor to the left. It looks as if someone has attempted to clean it. It extends across the hall to the far wall. The crosshatch pattern of the floor is also bleached-bypassed out toward the right. Door closes (4:28-4:32).

Conclusions: There is someone off the left. She first hears him or her, then notices him or her in the mirror. He startles her. She watches. She does not want to be with that person. At some point that person sees her. She knows him or her, or in any case she does not appear to be frightened. The other person is distracted for some unknown reason (perhaps someone else down the hall). While the person is distracted, Elisa steps into the car and frantically begins pushing all the buttons. Then she is called out.

The bizarre interaction with the invisible dog or being defies explanation. It can only be that someone has tampered (photoshoped) with the clip, erasing the dog or whatever it is. Elisa appears to be following orders. Eventually she has to walk off frame-left.

Speculation: I am convinced the clip has been tampered with. The interaction with the dog is too specific, and now the dog is missing. Elisa greets the animal by holding out her left hand for it to smell her. She holds the head of the dog with her flat, left palm, either beneath the chin or on top of the head, while she pets the animal with her right hand.

Then there is change in the bright orange color of the hall wall in the clip (compare 3:54 to 4:23).

Finally, look at the floor: the bloodstain appears cleaned when the door opens at 4:20, and indeed, the crosshatch pattern on the hall floor bleaches off to the right in the last shot (4:23-4:30). The lines are not even visible. There has been a real-life attempt to clean the floor, and then an attempt to bleach-out the photo or film.

I believe she was killed right then and there.

by captain Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:40 pm

eddie wrote:
captainJane wrote:"I want to take a closer look at her hand gestures."

To me it seemed as if she was doing some kind of ritual dance or move at times, as if she was or was supposed to be in some kind of trace, when she was outside of the lift.

I agree. The moves are unnatural. There is also no real fear or panic on her face.
Perhaps, rather than having so someone "after" her, she is working "with" someone to do something and they're both trying to be quiet?

Where us the video surveillance of the hallway outside the lift??

When in a panic, some people can contain their fear and brace themselves. She does not appear to be drunk or drugged, this is why I came to that conclusion. It looked to me as if she was playing some form of game that was expected of her, to this person or thing we cannot see outside of the lift. Maybe she could hear they were nearby and gave up trying to hide.

by captain Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:As she reenters the elevator (2:08) she appears to drop her arms as if she is temporarily released. It is then she begins to push all of the buttons (2:13 to 2:28), as if trying to escape. Then she appears to be called outside the car again (2:30). Then she is slightly to the left (2:33) of the doors and turns right (2:35). She seems to greet someone before her, but is invisible; she holds out her left hand (2:36) as if allowing a dog to sniff it. She does a stroking gesture with her right hand (2:38). Her left hand is raised, palm down (2:38) at the same time, as if touching or patting someone on the head. She pets five times (2:38-2:43). Whatever she is touching or petting moves up and to the left (2:42) as she continues to pet. Then she cuts off petting (2:43) with a gesture of the right hand.

From the kinetics, she appears to be greeting and petting a large dog. She appears to hold out her hand allowing it to smell her (2:36), then begins with the petting motion. At 2:42 the supposed dog appears to move toward whomever she is talking to. She makes a gesture like shoving the dog off of her (2:43).

She appears to turn to her left and hold up her hand as if taking something invisible from someone off to the left and raise it above about chest-high (2:50). She appears to be doing something with (placing a collar or hat upon) her hands, as her hands are moving around something (2:52-2:57). She looks almost as if she is being manacled. She drops her arm (2:59). Then she stands facing forward (3:00), lifts her right arm (3:03) or someone is taking her by her hands, and she takes a step forward (3:04), then steps off frame to the left (3:05-3:06).

Now she is gone (3:06). The door closes first time (3:36-3:40). The door opens (3:50-3:54). A large, faint bloodstain is on the hall floor covering. from left to right, all of the visible floor. The door closes (4:01-4:05). At 4:19-4:23 the door opens and the hallway is suddenly colored in orange (4:20). It is similar to the result of a bleach-bypass effect:

”But there’s a problem. When you do this, you get an image that’s much darker than the original, so much so that it’s very difficult to do anything with it. We’re used to working with positive images, whereas this bleach bypass process was used during negative processes. If you apply it to a negative, it produces a darker, denser image, but since it’s a negative, it’s a much lighter print.” http://www.maclife.com/article/howtos/how_bleach_images_photoshop

There is a faint bloodstain pattern on the hall floor to the left. It looks as if someone has attempted to clean it. It extends across the hall to the far wall. The crosshatch pattern of the floor is also bleached-bypassed out toward the right. Door closes (4:28-4:32).

Conclusions: There is someone off the left. She first hears him or her, then notices him or her in the mirror. He startles her. She watches. She does not want to be with that person. At some point that person sees her. She knows him or her, or in any case she does not appear to be frightened. The other person is distracted for some unknown reason (perhaps someone else down the hall). While the person is distracted, Elisa steps into the car and frantically begins pushing all the buttons. Then she is called out.

The bizarre interaction with the invisible dog or being defies explanation. It can only be that someone has tampered (photoshoped) with the clip, erasing the dog or whatever it is. Elisa appears to be following orders. Eventually she has to walk off frame-left.

Speculation: I am convinced the clip has been tampered with. The interaction with the dog is too specific, and now the dog is missing. Elisa greets the animal by holding out her left hand for it to smell her. She holds the head of the dog with her flat, left palm, either beneath the chin or on top of the head, while she pets the animal with her right hand.

Then there is change in the bright orange color of the hall wall in the clip (compare 3:54 to 4:23).

Finally, look at the floor: the bloodstain appears cleaned when the door opens at 4:20, and indeed, the crosshatch pattern on the hall floor bleaches off to the right in the last shot (4:23-4:30). The lines are not even visible. There has been a real-life attempt to clean the floor, and then an attempt to bleach-out the photo or film.

I believe she was killed right then and there.

You are really good! Your information will be sending me back to observe much more closely, I did not see a dog at all.

by Original Quill Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:06 pm

No, you won't see a dog. He has been photoshoped out of the picture. You can make out where he was; he was ass and tail inward to the elevator. Look at the crosshatch pattern on the floor. Where you will recognize the dog, is in Elisa's actions...she is holding out her left hand for the dog to sniff her, and then she is petting the dog while she chats with the off-frame person. Those are the hand-motions.

The whole clip has been photoshoped. It's because someone wants to erase the dog as well as the huge bloodstain on the floor outside of the elevator. You can barely make it out, but it's there both times the elevator doors open after Elisa is gone. Whoever it was knew about the elevator camera and stays out of the view. But his dog took no such precaution, so he has to photoshop him out.

Look at frame 4:20, you will see that when the doors open the entire hall has changed color, which it didn't have before. It was dull gray. That is the result of the bleach bypass effect of the photoshoping. The entire clip of Elisa in the elevator has been tampered with.

by Original Quill Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:05 pm

All that blood and no bruises on the body??? Someone bled out on that spot. I'd like to have another look at that autopsy report.

The facts are beginniing to point to an inside job.

1. Who has a dog running around in a hotel?

2. How did those blood spots get there if a body didn't bleed out there?

3. Who can gain access to the rooftop without tripping the alarms?

4. Who knew those tanks were up there and would be a good place to hide a body?

5. Who has access to the elevator camera and could photoship it's images?

6. Who knew how to access the rooftop tanks when the fire department couldn't access them without cutting a hole in them?

Curiouser and curiouser.

by Irn Bru Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:43 pm

I think the hand movements are just her motioning to someone else that she doesn't understand why the lift isn't working. She's not wearing her glasses either which is why she is having to crouch down so low to push the buttons. In fact she isn't carrying anything. No bag - nothing. That's strange.
From about 2.16 onwards she is talking to someone on her left and as she walks away you can just see at 2.29 that someone else's foot is just visible and walks away as well.
After she has left the lift is moving between floors which explains why it looks a little different outside each time.

by captain Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:51 pm

My eyes are not as observant as yours. @quill.

But what was seen was the change in the patten on the tiles on the floor, some of them were in a sort marked patten in the grout at some point on the clip.. Maybe previous blood or paint? A patten never the less.
The change of colour on the wall, could this lift have gone up or down floors? Then maybe as you pointed out; the recording could of been tampered with. Making the mistake, of leaving the change of colour on the wall. That would be a dead give-away. No puns intended.

by eddie Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:31 pm

You can mime patting a dog for various reasons, what they are in relevance to this case, I'm not sure yet, but I dint think this video clip has been tampered with - they do hard experts looking still these things surely?

Her body, when it was found, was naked: where were her clothes?

by Irn Bru Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:26 am

One of the maintenance crew did her in. He's been working on the elevator and has put it on 'Inspection' function meaning the buttons are disabled for safety purposes. He's heard the commotion and come up the floor and explained she'll have to use one of the other elevators on another floor or use the stairs - that's him talking to her on her left between the video timings 2.16 and 2.29 at which point they then walk away together. He then disables the Inspection function with his remote control device (they do have them which explains why the elevator has started working again) and he assaults her somewhere in the building. He also has access to the top pf the building so he unlocks the security alarm and the door and carries her up to where the water tanks are and somehow manages to drop her in there.
His foot is just visible for a moment at timing 2.29 so look carefully and you see it.

That's my explanation. Anyone see any flaws in that?

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:56 am

Irn Bru wrote:One of the maintenance crew did her in. He's been working on the elevator and has put it on 'Inspection' function meaning the buttons are disabled for safety purposes. He's heard the commotion and come up the floor and explained she'll have to use one of the other elevators on another floor or use the stairs - that's him talking to her on her left between the video timings 2.16 and 2.29 at which point they then walk away together. He then disables the Inspection function with his remote control device (they do have them which explains why the elevator has started working again) and he assaults her somewhere in the building. He also has access to the top pf the building so he unlocks the security alarm and the door and carries her up to where the water tanks are and somehow manages to drop her in there.
His foot is just visible for a moment at timing 2.29 so look carefully and you see it.

That's my explanation. Anyone see any flaws in that?

Pretty good. An inside job, for sure.

I'm not fond of anyone's explanation for hand motions. To me, she is surely petting a dog. Also, no one has explained the faded blood stain on the floor. Other things that bother me is her bent over look outside the elevator car followed by the hiding, and then the jump at 1:31; what startles her? Then there are her raised hands at 1:50 to 2:07 when she re-enters the elevator car.

Xlnt find...the shoe at 2:29. And clearly someone is leading her away at that time. You are apparently right about the car moving from floor to floor. At the third time the door opens, when the color appears at 4:23, there is a wall light directly across the hall.

by eddie Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:39 pm

Ahem! I actually said the lift moved between floors so ner ner!
I think it's an inside job too; although I'm going by the fact that all staff were obviously interviewed and cleared, so.....did the police miss this obvious pointer at an insider?

by captain Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:34 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:The Elisa Lam one seriously freaked me out. I'd heard her story before (even used the hotel where she died in my Renard story) but I just watched the elevator video footage on YouTube and it's creepy regardless of what you theorize might have been going on ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ_E6l1P86U

Her behavior is odd throughout, but for me the really creepy part is about two minutes in.

Seven of Nine and I watched this clip again. Seven is convinced that the lift has up or down. The "staining on the floor outside of the lift is completely different, the same for the colour of the wall opposite the doors of the lift". Seven can't think what the hand moment may mean at all, "it is just all to weird".

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:06 pm

captainJane wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:The Elisa Lam one seriously freaked me out. I'd heard her story before (even used the hotel where she died in my Renard story) but I just watched the elevator video footage on YouTube and it's creepy regardless of what you theorize might have been going on ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ_E6l1P86U

Her behavior is odd throughout, but for me the really creepy part is about two minutes in.

Seven of Nine and I watched this clip again. Seven is convinced that the lift has up or down. The "staining on the floor outside of the lift is completely different, the same for the colour of the wall opposite the doors of the lift". Seven can't think what the hand moment may mean at all, "it is just all to weird".

Yes, I think eds and Irn are probably right that the changes outside are due to the elevator changing floors. Stupid Me...I missed the wall lamp on the hall wall, which seems to prove it is a different floor. If the car did change floors in between door openings, the floor stains would not mean anything.

So going back to the medical examiner's cause of death, she drowned in the tank. That would mean that someone led her up to the roof and dumped her into the tank alive. She probably drown after a lengthy attempt to tread water...not unlike being buried alive in a casket. Horrible!

Still bothered by the hand gestures. I've looked at the clip several times again and I can't see it being just conversation, or talking hands. The petting motion of the right hand is too exaggerated, as is the final push away move with both hands. Then she raises her hands...it is now my speculation that this was when 'whoever' bound her wrists, as a second later she is being led away by the wrists (where shoe appears).

by captain Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
captainJane wrote:

Seven of Nine and I watched this clip again. Seven is convinced that the lift has up or down. The "staining on the floor outside of the lift is completely different, the same for the colour of the wall opposite the doors of the lift". Seven can't think what the hand moment may mean at all, "it is just all to weird".

Yes, I think eds and Irn are probably right that the changes outside are due to the elevator changing floors. Stupid Me...I missed the wall lamp on the hall wall, which seems to prove it is a different floor. If the car did change floors in between door openings, the floor stains would not mean anything.

So going back to the medical examiner's cause of death, she drowned in the tank. That would mean that someone led her up to the roof and dumped her into the tank alive. She probably drown after a lengthy attempt to tread water...not unlike being buried alive in a casket. Horrible!

Still bothered by the hand gestures. I've looked at the clip several times again and I can't see it being just conversation, or talking hands. The petting motion of the right hand is too exaggerated, as is the final push away move with both hands. Then she raises her hands...it is now my speculation that this was when 'whoever' bound her wrists, as a second later she is being led away by the wrists (where shoe appears).

'whoever' bound her wrists, as a second later she is being led away by the wrists"
That was seen really plainly, after you pointed that part out; why did I miss that. More importantly why has the authorities not noticed this fact?

Another obvious thing from this clip is she was doing the hand movements to the right, before being taken away from the left. So, there must have been at least two people in this hallway. Maybe the one on the right was instructing both the victim and the the person that would have cuffed her, the latter could potentially be another victim, used for the occasion? Or someone who enjoyed the parts of toying and trapping their prey.

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:10 pm

captainJane wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Yes, I think eds and Irn are probably right that the changes outside are due to the elevator changing floors. Stupid Me...I missed the wall lamp on the hall wall, which seems to prove it is a different floor. If the car did change floors in between door openings, the floor stains would not mean anything.

So going back to the medical examiner's cause of death, she drowned in the tank. That would mean that someone led her up to the roof and dumped her into the tank alive. She probably drown after a lengthy attempt to tread water...not unlike being buried alive in a casket. Horrible!

Still bothered by the hand gestures. I've looked at the clip several times again and I can't see it being just conversation, or talking hands. The petting motion of the right hand is too exaggerated, as is the final push away move with both hands. Then she raises her hands...it is now my speculation that this was when 'whoever' bound her wrists, as a second later she is being led away by the wrists (where shoe appears).

'whoever' bound her wrists, as a second later she is being led away by the wrists"
That was seen really plainly, after you pointed that part out; why did I miss that. More importantly why has the authorities not noticed this fact?

Another obvious thing from this clip is she was doing the hand movements to the right, before being taken away from the left. So, there must have been at least two people in this hallway. Maybe the one on the right was instructing both the victim and the the person that would have cuffed her, the latter could potentially be another victim, used for the occasion? Or someone who enjoyed the parts of toying and trapping their prey.

There is something to that left/right thing. Notice when she is first looking out the car door, she is focused on looking right. Only when she exhibits the surprise/fright jump, does she look to the left.

I am still convinced that the tape or clip has been tampered with, explaining what she is doing with all those hand gestures. AND LO, what do I find? It is confirmed that 54-seconds are missing, found by an independent observer:

A YouTube user, Cody Fry, recently claimed that the Elisa Lam CCTV footage had been slowed down and possibly edited. He makes a case that the tape was tampered with and that we have not yet seen the full extent of Elisa Lam’s final video appearance.

Look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YO4QbaNDjI#t=109

Apparently in total, there are 54-seconds missing. I also fully read the Autopsy Report. It's a bureaucratic gloss-over. You can see it at:

Autopsy Report: http://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/02/24/el-autopsy/el-autopsy.pdf

Shows naked body, floating face up, in NE 1,000-gal. water tank, ¾ full, with 16"-inch opening at top (secured??). COD: drowning. Autopsy mentions bi-polar disorder gratuitously. Four meds associated with the bi-polarity (Toxicology Report attached). Sister Sara gives background from Canada.

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:30 pm

There's an additional observation made by someone:

Regarding the notion that the elevator was in "night mode", stuck at the top floor for cable-lubing or whatever. Did anyone notice that the door made a little twitch to close at about the 10-sec mark? It's more like someone was spamming the "door open" button from the outside or a control room with video access.

It's true...check it out. It's around 10-seconds into the whole clip. That means the elevator is not really switched off or locked down. Someone is holding the open button, perhaps remotely.

Elisa seems to notice that to, as it is what prompts her to lean out into the hall and look around.

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:53 pm

Cody Fry wrote:For anyone who is still thinking that this video is on a motion capture and the time stamp cuts out because of a lack of movement, answer me this, why does after we mysteriously lose 54 seconds of video, does it come back, play for a few seconds (as clearly shown on the time stamp) then jump around a few times then the elevator moves? Are you telling me that this motion capture elevator could sense that the elevator was going to move again soon so it came back early in preparation? Some sort of motion capture that can see the future?

Because as far as I'm concerned if this was the case the video would start up exactly when the elevator starts moving again (aka when motion begins) not a good 5 seconds before hand at least.

Gd point. Somebody is consciously playing with the video.

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:02 pm

Lihilus wrote:Serious tin foil hat stuff here.

When the door closes after the time lapse it starts further in than it should have when it closed.

"Looks shopped, I can tell by the pixels and having seen a few shops in my time..."

Me too.

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:07 pm

CaptKaboom wrote:
Well done exposing edited footage. Lot of rabbit holes one could fall through with this case. Did drug and alcohol psychosis cause death? Did one of her last Twitter posts referencing Quantum Stealth technology lead to her demise? Why was she there? Why did Richard Schmelter create a Facebook account with her name after she was already dead? Is it really just a coincidence that TB test kit was called Lam Elisa or that the current owner of Stealth tech is Raytheon in which Dan Crowley is the VP. Is he related to Alister Crowley who was in contact with entities he called "Lam"?

No comment. Some of this speculation gets a bit far out.

No drugs per the Toxicology Report.

The Twitter posts and Facebook entries are interesting. Also, why if she were traveling by AmTrak, and she is going to Santa Cruz, does she end up in Los Angeles...maybe 300-miles to the south?

The name of the test kits...meh, no causation implied. Same with the 'Crowley' thing. I'm not into the occult.

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:21 pm

captainJane wrote:Another obvious thing from this clip is she was doing the hand movements to the right, before being taken away from the left. So, there must have been at least two people in this hallway. Maybe the one on the right was instructing both the victim and the the person that would have cuffed her, the latter could potentially be another victim, used for the occasion? Or someone who enjoyed the parts of toying and trapping their prey.

In response to your question Jane, take a look at this.

אלירן נקש wrote:Also.. it looks like she is speaking to someone on the right side of the elevator but when she was leaving the elevator, she took a left.. perhaps the editing was meant to hide the fact that someone passed the elevator doors from the right side to the left (the person she was talking to?) so if that's the case, the person knew about the camera and had access to the tape and had knowledge about editing video tapes... but the police must have noticed that and followed that lead... so what's up with that?

The video might have been altered to mask the fact that the person moved back and forth in the hall, in plain view of the camera lens.

That would also explain Alisa jumping when she first looked out in the hall.

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:27 pm

Looked at it one more time. Elisa's jerky movements around 1:30 to 1:45 could also be explained by editing. Look at her jump (1:30)...she takes off on her right foot, and lands on her right foot. It looks awkward. But careful watching reveals no seam. It just emphasizes that she did indeed jump...almost like startled.

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:36 pm

There is a curious post by this guy:

tonyztyles wrote:there is no significant purpose for releasing the truth of this case to the public none at all, so much more i can say that can shed light but there is also no purpose for that, i am done

Either he knows something, or he's just critical of the dialogue.

by Original Quill Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:46 pm

Holly wrote:I honestly believe that there is someone else on the other side of the door, or someone in the control room messing with her. At around 11/12 seconds you see the door begin to close and then re-open, as if someone is pressing the button on the other side or in the control room... In a lot of hotels there are security guards watching the cameras at all times, so someone could have been watching what was going on and chose not to do anything. As for the missing 54 seconds? That is enough time for someone to drag her away before the camera comes back up or is continued after editing. Why has no one ever asked for the footage before and after this whole ordeal? Surely the footage a few minutes before she enters the elevator exists and must of shown something. She seems genuinely freaked out in this footage, and I don't think she is on drugs personally. The door re-opening at 12 seconds is clear proof that she was not alone!

by eddie Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:22 pm

Quill, when I watched that video for about, the fourth time, I actually kept thinking to myself that there was a weird "blurriness" to the whole thing - it was like there were dark shadows moving around on the film.
I assumed that it was just the graininess of the film itself - I know very little about CCTV camera footage, however, that would explain the time-lapse and interference.
It makes sense. But why have the police not looked into that??
IMO, perhaps the police had no interest in solving the case...

by captain Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:26 am

eddie wrote:Quill, when I watched that video for about, the fourth time, I actually kept thinking to myself that there was a weird "blurriness" to the whole thing - it was like there were dark shadows moving around on the film.
I assumed that it was just the graininess of the film itself - I know very little about CCTV camera footage, however, that would explain the time-lapse and interference.
It makes sense. But why have the police not looked into that??
IMO, perhaps the police had no interest in solving the case...

Late here so a short one. We are thinking the same on the police.

As for the control room, for sure.. There is a patten here me thinks.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:36 am

@Jane: Look just above at tonyztyles' post. He sounds like the police, doesn't he?

@Eds: Some people were mentioning the appearance of blurry images, particularly at the very start:

Jonathan Gilbert wrote:Put the video at 00:00 second.. you see the face of a guy on the entire screen.. and its stay there for all the lenght of the video ( also on official video )... really scary.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:39 am

Zach wrote:Does anyone know why she went to LA? That is one detail that no one even seems to be asking about. I'm wondering if maybe she was lured there because of her name being similar to the tuberculosis test?

Cody Fry wrote:People have said her final destination in California was going to be Santa Clara or Santa Cruz one of the two and that she wanted to work on some organic farm or something if I remember correctly.

Same question I have. LA is far, far from Santa Cruz.

The organic farm thing fits--University of California at Santa Cruz has the UCSC Farm & Alan Chadwick Garden, operated by staff and students of the Center for Agroecology & Sustainable Food Systems at UC Santa Cruz. The Farm & Garden serve as training sites for students in the six-month Apprenticeship in Ecological Horticulture, who raise a wide variety of vegetable, fruit, and flower crops as part of their hands-on training.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:13 am

Just for informational purposes:

1. The Cecil Hotel has 14-floors.

2. Elisa was staying on the 4th-floor.

3. Some 3-4 floors are dedicated to the 'Stay on Main Hostel'; they are around the 7th-floor.

4. The video begins on the 14th-floor (top), where Elisa enters the elevator car and begins pushing all the buttons. All of the video, including the hand gestures, take place on the 14th-floor. The first time the elevator car travels, it goes to the 10th-floor. The second time the elevator car travels, it stops on the 7th-floor, and the walls are a bright orange or red. Apparently the hostel has rented four floors in the middle, and they have decorated their floors in the bright orange or red paint. That's why the color scheme changes when the elevator car stops at the 7th-floor.

Cody Fry wrote:It's actually been mentioned countless times. 4 floors of the Cecil hotel were renovated and rebranded the Stay Hostel. Floors 4-7. Elisa starts on the 14th floor. The elevator travels to the 10th floor (grey) and finally the 7th floor (the Stay)

The story obviously begins before the video. What was Elisa doing on the 14th-floor, 10-floors above where she was staying? I think we would know a lot more if we knew the answer to that question.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:42 am

DaMan wrote:something i never noticed before is when she gets in the elevator. it opens and we see her hastily walking in... this indicates that she was not calmly waiting infront of it. (which is what most people do)
from what i know from this hotel, there's another elevator right next to this one, which is to our left.
that leaves us with two options: #1 she was playing a childish game with someone she knew / liked and was using the elevators to move throughout the hotel to not ''be caught'' within her game, and later somehow managed to get into the water tank.

#2 (which is the more likely one due to circumstances involving the water tank) she was being followed on a lower floor, took the elevator to run, ended up here and thought she could confuse her killer by taking this elevator to another floor. obviously it malfunctions (maybe because the killer was a security guard that had the key to manipulate the elevator) and she begins to freak out. she steps out of the elevator and starts making very strange movements, trying to reason with her pursuer who somehow managed to get to the right side of the hallway without being seen by the security camera (possible that multiple people were in on this) or make him believe she's fucking lost it. he backs off, making her believe that she has a chance to escape now, only to be grabbed moments later by the security guard and then dragged to the rooftop.

the reason i say #2 is more likely to be the case is because 2-3 weeks later when she was found, the water tank she was in was sealed shut. as far as im aware, you literally cannot shut it from the inside, not to mention the fact that while she was found naked in the water tank, her clothes were still in there with her.
why in the fuck would she take her clothes off inside the water tank if it was suicide? <-- which doesn't make much sense in the first place regarding all the strange and unexplainable circumstances.

The second elevator (to the left) may have been what she was hiding from.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:45 am

Joshua Nelson wrote:- It is confirmed that Elisa was staying on the 4th floor of the Cecil. A person who was stayed on the 3rd floor told that he heared a loud noise, like if something fell on the floor where Elisa was staying on the night she was last seen.
- Another man who was in the Cecil at the time Elisa was there and had his room on the 4th floor, said that police never asked him any questions.
- Seems that a lot of people see some sort of fuzzy moving shadow in the elevator itself. Most visible in the reflection of the door and doorpost. Others will say its because of the bad quality of the footage.
- What everyone does agree on is that Elisa is talking to somebody who is not seen on the video and is trying to explain something to this person. On one of her blogs, Elisa mentioned a company that does military projects. The company she talks about rents office space at the Cecil Hotel there, so that is why she was at the Hotel.

Eds, there it is again. This time in the reflection.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:54 am

Calum Sherwood wrote:Anyone else think that is the toe of another persons shoe at 1.50 as she walks out of shot to the left. Watch her feet. Either her foot is backwards or that is some one else there

There's your foot, Irn.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:03 am

MissAntiAmerica wrote:I have been reading and researching this story for quite some time now and I feel compelled to share the following with you all. I suffer from bipolar disorder (type 1) and I am surprised with what I'm reading. Some say that the way she is acting is not at all how a person with bipolar would act if in a manic episode; that her behavior could not be caused by "mania" or anything else related to her bipolar because she was on her meds at the time; or that she was clearly on drugs because she is hallucinating and talking to someone who isn't there...
I can tell you all firsthand that her behavior is EXACTLY what you'd expect from a person who is in the middle of a manic episode. Every man, woman, and child with this terrible disorder experiences different kinds of mania but I myself, along with many others that I have come to know that suffer from the same diagnosis, have had manic episodes which would look just like this if it was caught on tape. Auditory hallucinations, a trance like state of mind, speaking to a empty room as if it was filled with people, odd body movements....the list could go on and on.
The point about how she was on medication therefor she couldn't have been experiencing a manic episode is ridiculous too. Medication makes the lives of us who suffer from the disorder infinitely more manageable but it in no way stops every symptom and manic episode we have. I wish that were the case!!! The truth is that you can take your meds everyday at the same time and never miss a dose and you still can't guarantee that you'll be safe from manic episodes or other symptoms that come with it. I can see how people would jump to the conclusion that she was on drugs because unless you yourself have bipolar or know someone who does (and you've been around that person while they are manic) anyone would mistake this behavior as a "bad trip" or a number of things that could happen while high on drugs. I can't tell you how many times I have been taken "hostage" by my own brain and done things that I could never rationally explain while in my right mind. I can absolutely see how she could have been in the middle of a manic episode, left her hotel room with no destination (or at least none to her conscious mind), wandered the halls doing the odd things that some do while in this condition, the elevator tapes captured a small piece on tape while she made her way to the roof, and she honestly could have thought she wanted to swim in one of the containers once she got to the roof. People need to understand that a thought such as that could absolutely go thru someone's mind while in a manic episode. Rhyme, reason, and common sense go completely out the window during these episodes and the end result can be detrimental if the person is alone. In closing, I love any and all things paranormal and I understand that there are plenty of unanswered questions that still remain but I'm sad to say that this really does appear to be just a young woman who was tragically by herself when she most needed someone by her side. America, and most other countries around the world, really does need to wake up and get the conversation started on mental illness and the disorders besides depression and anxiety. My heart goes out to this poor girl and her family because a situation like this could happen to me or anyone of the millions who struggle with this disorder everyday and if we live in a world where people are going to look at someone acting like Elisa was and automatically assume she's on drugs (like most of the people who commented on this video did) instead of someone who is in need of immediate mental health help, well then I guarantee that these stories and situations will keep happening when it is really very easy to pick up the phone and dial 911 for the person who is in desperate need. May Ms. Lam, her friends, and her family find peace and hopefully her terrible death will not be in vain. Thank you for reading...xx

Another theory, more grounded. But still, someone screwed around with the video clip. I don't believe she was a lone rider. And she could never have opened that tank by herself.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:21 am

Cody Fry wrote:I can't seem to reply to your comments daniella but you keep saying that staying at the Cecil wasn't part of her trip and I have to point something out. As far as I know, and being from Vancouver I've been studying this case from day one, Elisas plan was to go work on an organic farm in Santa Clara [actually, he means Santa Cruz]. Prior to finishing her trip at the organic farm she planned to do some sight seeing around California, which to me could be very well how she ended up staying at the Stay Hostel (located in the Cecil hotel on floors 4-7). The stay offers a cheap rate and a good location proximity wise to a lot of tourist attractions in downtown LA [downtown LA is actually quite small; the Cecil Hotel is only 3-blocks from the upscale Biltmore Hotel]. If all she went off was the information on the stays website, it doesn't seem like some run down dump that we all know the Cecil to be and actually appears to be a decent place to stay.

Why she was on the 14th floor however is a big question. I also believe she met someone from the area that led her up there. Either to a room or to the roof. I don't believe this is some CIA plan to infect infect anyone with TB. What I think happened is whoever lured her up to the roof probably wanted to have sex with her, Elisa was unwilling and either simply left or escaped somehow. During this time she was possibly drugged but not necesarrily. The person or people catch up to her and manage to lure her back to the roof where I'm guessing she was raped. My theory on how she got into the water tank is this; after the perpetrators were done they forced her into the tank as a means to stop her from following him/them during their escape. My guess is Elisa was alive in the tank for some time and eventually drowned.

Gruesome thought.

But I must mention, I have read the Autopsy Report and it indicates that 'vaginal trauma' is negative, although they do something strange: they cut out the vaginal walls and save them. Rape is generally indicated by vaginal trauma.

Another thing: the tissue surrounding the anus is swollen and has some kind of fluid within (the tissue, not the anus). It obviously had crossed the medical examiner's mind to look for evidence of rape...and a standard 'rape kit' is among the listed evidence. Curiouser and curiouser.

by eddie Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:14 am

Original Quill wrote:Just for informational purposes:

1. The Cecil Hotel has 14-floors.

2. Elisa was staying on the 4th-floor.

3. Some 3-4 floors are dedicated to the 'Stay on Main Hostel'; they are around the 7th-floor.

4. The video begins on the 14th-floor (top), where Elisa enters the elevator car and begins pushing all the buttons. All of the video, including the hand gestures, take place on the 14th-floor. The first time the elevator car travels, it goes to the 10th-floor. The second time the elevator car travels, it stops on the 7th-floor, and the walls are a bright orange or red. Apparently the hostel has rented four floors in the middle, and they have decorated their floors in the bright orange or red paint. That's why the color scheme changes when the elevator car stops at the 7th-floor.

Cody Fry wrote:It's actually been mentioned countless times. 4 floors of the Cecil hotel were renovated and rebranded the Stay Hostel. Floors 4-7. Elisa starts on the 14th floor. The elevator travels to the 10th floor (grey) and finally the 7th floor (the Stay)

The story obviously begins before the video. What was Elisa doing on the 14th-floor, 10-floors above where she was staying? I think we would know a lot more if we knew the answer to that question.

Only real possible explanation: she went up there to meet/visit someone.

by Ben Reilly Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:24 am

Wow, some fascinating ideas here -- just wanted to add, I know a bit about companies' attitude toward surveillance video, and it's not uncommon for tapes to be used over and over again until they practically won't record anything.

I know, this is something that happened last year, well after the era of the videocassette was over -- but a cheap hotel like this might very well have still been using VHS, and a VHS cassette that had already been recorded over many times prior.

by Ben Reilly Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:29 am

Also -- everything responds to market forces, and Lam was a little girl in a big world -- she got as much police investigation as there was demand for, ultimately.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:26 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Wow, some fascinating ideas here -- just wanted to add, I know a bit about companies' attitude toward surveillance video, and it's not uncommon for tapes to be used over and over again until they practically won't record anything.

I know, this is something that happened last year, well after the era of the videocassette was over -- but a cheap hotel like this might very well have still been using VHS, and a VHS cassette that had already been recorded over many times prior.

As Cody Fry mentions a couple of times, the tape/clip could have been intentionally altered quite legitimately by the hotel itself. If it shows something they could be liable for, they would have all the motive they needed. However, the police would have made sure they got the complete, original video.

There is something untoward about the activities of the LAPD and medical examiner here, and I can't quite put my finger on it. But there are too many obvious, unanswered questions. First of all, it took altogether too long for the police and medical examiner to issue their reports. For informational purposes, the incident on the elevator car and just outside took place at between midnight and 1:00 am on February 1, 2013. Not until June did they issue a report. Now, you could argue it was a complicated case and it took time. Certainly we have enough questions. Yet they pretty much knew what they knew when they found the body. I get the feeling the LAPD and the LA Coroner's office are holding back some things.

Then there is the cryptic post by tonyztiles, saying it would serve no purpose to inform the public. But isn't that what they are paid to do...by the public? If tonyztyles is police, or medical examiner, I think he is playing with a conflict of interest.

by Original Quill Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:35 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Also -- everything responds to market forces, and Lam was a little girl in a big world -- she got as much police investigation as there was demand for, ultimately.

Haha...that one sure backfires on them. I have read four full, huge websites, including the Autopsy Report, devoted to what happened to this poor girl. SONY Pictures has signed up to do a full feature film on the story. This one won't die.

I'd say we are looking at a BIG market force. If the LAPD think this will just be another BLACK DAHLIA (Elizabeth Short) story that fades away in the distance, they had better think again. This is the age of the Internet, and stories don't die like that anymore.

by Original Quill Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:21 am

I found this really interesting series (site below):

John Jones wrote:Who is Elisa Lam?

So I have been writing about Elisa Lam. Some of you that came to this site may not know the story about her. So here it is: "In February 2013, the body of Elisa Lam, a 21-year-old Canadian student, was found inside one of the water supply tanks on the hotel roof. Lam went missing January 31, and her body was discovered on February 19. The body was discovered after patrons complained of low water pressure,[3] with authorities later ruling Lam's death as an accidental drowning. Video surveillance footage taken from inside an elevator showed Lam acting strangely, pressing multiple buttons and waving her arms, causing widespread speculation about the cause of her death. " Reference wikipedia. Elisa: Rest in Peace. You are in our memories.

Vancouver newspaper has reported that Elisa's parent have decided to file a lawsuit against Cecil Hotel. It is long over due. Safety is everyone's issue in a hotel, and not providing the them to a paying customer is definitely negligent. While it is probably not written in the contract, the hotel has the obligation to let the residents know the dangers.

Please take a look at the pictures on this site. It clearly shows there is someone there.

Elisa has to lift right leg to cross over prep's left leg.The more people that sees these pics the better, maybe this will help

@2.12...full pic.This pic is clearer...what is that round object? If not a gun, what is it?

Gun halo with brown & EL hands to clarify. If it is not a gun, what it is?

@1.57...suspect hand/weapon shows

@2.19...I just zoomed in more...that metal object is a gun...specifically it appears to be a 'dart tranquilizer gun because of its small barrel. I zoomed in another pic and I can see the 'barrel' ...EL was brave enough to try to disarm this mofo...If that gun was used there will be traces to confirm it is homicide ... Just a small amount of tranquilizer can kill a male adult if it is not administered properly

@2.12 ...it is a dart tranquilizer gun... similar to above only a dart gun used to capture animals.. The guys hand is there too. If this is not a gun what is it?

As requested...@2.12 ...red arrow pointing to gun barrel ...look straight at barrel...If this is not a gun, what is it? Someone answer!!! I enabled comments...

3 of 5 Suspect foot, no ankle, therefore not EL, foot did not moved from last two image. Still at @2.29, frame extracted

Only this foot is shown. Suspect did not move yet. Still @2.29, extracted frame.

Increased contrast @2.29; extracted frame

Photo Extracts of EL Video #1. I have increase contrast to show a clearer picture. This photo is an extract of frame @ 2.29. Image 1 of 5.

Three obvious suspects.

Alvin Taylor.
http://www.sorarchives.com/directory/CA/T/Alvin_Taylor_1072663 Brown hand...word his it he has adopted 'sons' This monster is living in Cecil

Charles Willis
http://www.sorarchives.com/offender/view/1096861 Living in Cecil ...brown and lefty marks...might be the left hand for gun...fat and heavy...300 lbs...strong

Robert J Romero
http://www.sorarchives.com/offender/view/1273481 also in cecil...didn't see a 'white' hand but most likely involved.

No one would care if these idiots got into an 'accident' is my bet..

'Morbid'...Pablos Camilo... is also a 'candidate'...could be the mexican stalker she was talking about... another one that no one would care about...

Don't forget the hotel security guards, maintenance staff and hotel staff.

http://elisalamcase.blogspot.com/2013_03_01_archive.html

I found out more about Elisa's travels. Prior to LA, she had been in San Diego, as she mentions in her blog that she lost her cell phone there. There is also a cryptic entry that she hopes the Mexicans who have been stalking her are gone. In the water tank in which she was found, there was some fresh graffiti in Spanish: "She was a cunt."

I'm wondering if she got mixed up muleing drugs from Tijuana. If she got cross-wise with smugglers, for any reason, Katy-bar-the-door.

Parents are filing a civil suit, so we should learn more. Cecil Hotel has shut down completely.

by Irn Bru Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:13 pm

If the killer is reading this thread he must be bricking it.

Quill - make the call.

by Ben Reilly Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:17 pm

I have a totally different interpretation of the "foot direction" thing -- i.e., it's only suspicious-looking in that still.

If you watch it in context, the "wrong direction" foot is Lam's -- she's making a sharp left turn and what looks like a shoe is actually the back of her left clog/sandal/whatever. Start the video at 2:25 and you can see, it's not exactly a graceful move but it's just her.

by Original Quill Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:39 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:I have a totally different interpretation of the "foot direction" thing -- i.e., it's only suspicious-looking in that still.

If you watch it in context, the "wrong direction" foot is Lam's -- she's making a sharp left turn and what looks like a shoe is actually the back of her left clog/sandal/whatever. Start the video at 2:25 and you can see, it's not exactly a graceful move but it's just her.

I have gone back and forth, Ben. At first, when Irn pointed it out, I was a believer. Then I switched to your position because the image of the foot and the image of her foot as she makes that sharp left turn, come together. But no, this guys series of extracts is too convincing. Look at Elisa's last frame...her foot as she walks away is almost diametrically opposite of the other foot; the human body can't make such a move. Plus, add to this the fact that Elisa has her arms up, in traditional response to a gun situation. Now add, that she is being yanked forward in the very picture where you think it shows her other foot, and then yanked into a severe left-turn. There are clearly at least two people out there--one staying out of the camera range.

And the hand, Ben. I found that independently, and Jane and I discussed it (look back on previous page). The brown hand is right in her face, and she has her arms raised in the classical hold-up pose. Look when she comes back into the elevator car after first going out; literally, she has her hands up in the classic pose. She grabs the door frame, which obscures the pose...but her arms were in that position before she entered the car. And, the brown hand makes it appear as if she has three hands, which most people interpret as being some of her bizarre hand gestures. But, it's another person's hand.

I'd sure like to see you do an investigatve piece down in Dal/FtW, but first you have to believe. Look into it; no way this was accidental. Go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YO4QbaNDjI and read all of it. That is Cody Fry's Youtube account and it is a central clearinghouse for all of this. Hundreds of views, pro and con. It'll take you about 4-5 hours, and you'll have to shift through a lot of nonsense, but it will be worth it.

I'm going to try to contact these bloggers and her family lawyer, both to try to see what is happening and to see what can be done. LAPD and LA County Corner have really dropped the ball, or something else is up??? No way this isn't a homicide.

by Original Quill Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:00 am

Irn Bru wrote:If the killer is reading this thread he must be bricking it.

Quill - make the call.

If my suspicions are correct, poor El somehow got herself mixed up with some Colombians or, as she calls them, Mexicans. I'm talking drugs here. Something about the M.O. of the death...stick her in that tank and let her suffer over 3 -4 days. Only Colombians are that sick.

And the graffiti seems to say she had compromised herself.

If I am correct and that is the scenario, the killer or killers are from out-of-town and long gone. If, on the other hand, this was a straight sex crime or robbery, then they are probably still around. In any case, the LA County authorities look real bad on this one...worse than the job they did on OJ Simpson's case.

by Lone Wolf Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:41 am

Original Quill wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
If the killer is reading this thread he must be bricking it.

Quill - make the call.

If my suspicions are correct, poor El somehow got herself mixed up with some Colombians or, as she calls them, Mexicans. I'm talking drugs here. Something about the M.O. of the death...stick her in that tank and let her suffer over 3 -4 days. Only Colombians are that sick.

..............................

10 mysterious photos that cannot be explained - Page 2 112848305

THESE days the Columbian cartels use [i.e. under contract..] the Mexican drug gangs to distribute their cocaine all around the traps...

NOT just into both North America and South America, but also into parts of Europe, down into Australia and NZ, and even parts of S.E. Asia..
(Australia is reported to have the biggest markups along the way ~ well over 1000% between those Andean coca plantations, and before the cut and "lucky dip" end products hit the actors, stockbrokers, bankers, lawyers, 15 min. "celebrities", police officers and hookers, and assorted "pretty young things" in Sydney and Melbourne..).

SO IT is conceivable that the Columbians could be using some of those Mexican gangs as "enforcers"; or maybe even some people are crossing those Mexicans during some "drug deals gone bad" ~ and it would only be another step further for some of the Mexicans to now be emulating the methods and 'warnings' customarily used by their Columbian cartel suppliers. Idea

by eddie Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:31 pm

Wow. When I first put that link up I never thought we'd be trying to solve a real case!!

This is mind-blowing stuff. Bloody good work quill!

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