On Moderate Muslims

by Guest Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:42 am

First topic message reminder :

Ever since the Islamic atrocity of 9/11 (some would argue even before that), it has become fashionable to run after "moderate" Muslims, to court them, to highly value their views, to appease them to the point of losing freedoms won through centuries of bloodshed and activism. And yet at some point we must ask ourselves, have we been chasing a mirage all along? Fareed Zakaria explains:

Over the past decade, the United States helped organize Iraq’s “moderates” — the Shiite-dominated government — giving them tens of billions of dollars in aid and supplying and training their army. But, it turned out, the moderates weren’t that moderate. As they became authoritarian and sectarian, Sunni opposition movements grew and jihadi opposition groups such as ISIS gained tacit or active support. This has been a familiar pattern throughout the region.
For decades, U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East has been to support “moderates.” The problem is that there are actually very few of them.

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/on-moderate-Muslims.html

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:14 pm

See you can't deny it dodge....

And they are commanded to fight against non Muslims and subjugate them, force conversion or be killed.

Also their book specifically says not to take jews or Christians as friends.

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:22 pm

Here's some more Muslims doing what they do....

Kenya bus attack: Al-Shabaab militants kill 28 non-Muslims who failed to recite Koran

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/kenya-bus-attack-28-nonmuslims-killed-after-being-unable-to-recite-koran-in-suspected-alshabab-attack-9877181.html

by Guest Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:07 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Here's some more Muslims doing what they do....

Kenya bus attack: Al-Shabaab militants kill 28 non-Muslims who failed to recite Koran

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/kenya-bus-attack-28-nonmuslims-killed-after-being-unable-to-recite-koran-in-suspected-alshabab-attack-9877181.html

Really? Show me in the Quran where it states any Muslim that is not Hafiz, should be executed?

There is none and if this is a new view taken by extremism, to kill those who cannot.
They may want to start with their own followers who are religious novices of much of the Quran, then, start to kill themselves:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/jihadist-radicalisation-islam-for-dummies_b_5697160.html

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:30 pm

Mohammed did it and what's good enough for him etc....

by Guest Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:58 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Mohammed did it and what's good enough for him etc....

Interesting and you claim this even though such a view is not found in the Quran, where actually Muslims who are Hafiz, are honoured by having this in front of their name?

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:26 pm

Mohammed butchered vast numbers of people dodge.....

So if it's good enough for him.....

by Guest Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:29 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Mohammed butchered vast numbers of people dodge.....

So if it's good enough for him.....

For not being able to recite the Quran?

So clearly you need to learn more.

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:34 pm

They were killed because they were not Muslims.

by Guest Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:37 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:They were killed because they were not Muslims.

No they were killed because they could not recite the Quran, as those killed were Muslims, as only Hafiz Muslims can recite the Quran.
Thus you have to show me where it states in the Quran people have to recite the Quran to be counted as a Muslim and then it shows that if they cannot the punishment is death.

You cannot even show me any of their written documentation on Muhammad even doing this as well.

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:42 pm

I think you are wrong here dodge, the headline says....

Kenya bus attack: Al-Shabaab militants kill 28 non-Muslims who failed to recite Koran

by Guest Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:48 pm

Not wrong at all Tommy, you just get confused by the headline:

From your own link:

It is believed they asked travellers to recite passages from the Koran, shooting dead those who were unable to prove they were practising Muslims.

Not even if they were Muslims, but "practising" Muslims
Thus it was based on reciting the Quran where there is no such command to be made on any Non_Muslim or Muslim in the Quran. So you would also if even using your view here have to show it is commanded in the Quran to make Non_Muslims cite the Quran.

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:31 pm

Wrong again dodge.... a Muslim would know at least some of the Koran.

A non Muslim would not.

And a non practicing Muslim is an apostate and also killed as it says to do in guide book.

by Guest Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:27 pm

Really in a part of the world where many are illiterate?
So not wrong at all, and even non-practising Muslims may not know any of the Quran, why would they if they do not practice the faith.
Doh

So again you have come up short because I also stated even with your view, show me where in the Quran it states to make Non-Muslims to recite the Quran and then to kill them if they cannot?

You poorly tried to worm out of answering that and failing to yet again understand religion and what now constitutes a practising believer.

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:49 pm

All Muslims will know a part of Koran by hearing it and repeating it in prayer etc.

A non practicing Muslim is not a Muslim but an apostate and are ordered to be killed in guide book.

by Guest Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:39 pm

Not all of them do, as why say practicing Muslims.
Showing again you have no comprehension what you are talking about and merely speculating.
There is no such thing as non practicing Muslims being viewed s apostates, as they have not left the faith.
They would only be very lazy Muslims, not apostates.
Doh

So again show me this verse which commands Muslims to make other people recite the Quran and if they cannot is punishable by death?

You keep dodging this.

Try again

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:45 pm

The test they devised was so they could single out and target the non Muslims.

Why would Muslims be targeting and attacking non Muslims???

I mean that is completely unheard of isn't it...!?

by Guest Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:47 pm

No, non practising Muslims as stated, as why even use the word practising, you would just say Non-Muslims.
I see you realised your error on apostasy.
Never claimed that some extremist Muslims do not attack Non_Muslims, we know that extremists do, but here they tested on the view of what a practising Muslim was, not a Non_Muslim, as why even bother to use practising, that make no sense, unless they were happy to kill Muslims and NOn_Muslims, and based this on how well they practiced their faith, this being the case of reciting the Quran

Again you avoid the question, So again show me this verse which commands Muslims to make other people recite the Quran and if they cannot is punishable by death?

You keep dodging this.

by Guest Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:58 pm

Back later then.

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:04 pm

Here's another news report on what happened....

Extremists Hijack Bus And Kill 28 Non-Muslims.

Al Shabab militants have hijacked a bus in Kenya, with gunmen singling out 28 non-Muslims and shooting them dead, according to police.

One officer said the passengers, who were travelling to Nairobi, were "brutally executed" by the Islamic extremists.

His colleague claimed that the 60 people on board were told to disembark, and then sorted into two groups based on the faith they professed.

The attack took place in Mandera, a town on the border between Kenya and Somalia. An estimated 100 militants were involved.

http://news.sky.com/story/1378195/extremists-hijack-bus-and-kill-28-non-Muslims

by Guest Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:39 pm

Great another article, which still does not refute my points or how you still have not answered my question.

Which is detrimental to your claim.

So again show me this verse which commands Muslims to make other people recite the Quran and if they cannot is punishable by death?

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:58 pm

All Muslims would be able to recite a piece of the Koran.

This was just a way for The Muslim killers to distinguish who the non Muslims were.

by Ben Reilly Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:28 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:All Muslims will know a part of Koran by hearing it and repeating it in prayer etc.

A non practicing Muslim is not a Muslim but an apostate and are ordered to be killed in guide book.

So why haven't all the Muslims living around you tried to kill you yet?

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:42 pm

How much evidence of Muslims attacking non Muslims do you need....???

by Ben Reilly Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:20 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:How much evidence of Muslims attacking non Muslims do you need....???

News is stuff that doesn't happen all the time -- rare incidents that shock people to learn about. If the vast majority of Muslims want nonbelievers to die, why haven't any of them tried to take your life?

by Tommy Monk Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:46 pm

Are you suggesting they have to specifically target me for all the other evidence of their hostility to be recognized as attacks on non Muslims as commanded in their religious guide books...???

lol!

by Ben Reilly Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:55 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Are you suggesting they have to specifically target me for all the other evidence of their hostility to be recognized as attacks on non Muslims as commanded in their religious guide books...???

I'm suggesting that you're full of wind On Moderate Muslims - Page 10 2984306523

by Tommy Monk Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:57 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:How much evidence of Muslims attacking non Muslims do you need....???

News is stuff that doesn't happen all the time -- rare incidents that shock people to learn about. If the vast majority of Muslims want nonbelievers to die, why haven't any of them tried to take your life?

But in the case of Islamic aggression it is news because it is happening all the time.... we don't hear about any other religious groups constantly carrying out this type of hostility because it doesn't happen.....

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:00 am

And am still waiting for Tommy to show the Quranic verse where it states that Non_Muslims have to recite the Quran or they will be executed?
Which of course we all know is complete nonsense being as no Non_Muslim would have existed after 50 years let alone 1400 years living in a majority Muslim country.
It shows his desperation within debating that he yet again plays the stubborn idiot card.
I am happy with that, as the more he posts the more embarrassing he becomes when debating.

by Tommy Monk Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:20 pm

Did I ever claim that what you are suggesting was in the Koran....???

No.

So why are you asking me to back up YOUR claim???

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:28 pm

Well it has to be in the Quran or other religious works to thus be a concept to use, otherwise as you claimed earlier that this is Islamic to recite, is thus pure bullshit on your part. Your whole methodology on religion and Islam is that it can be found in their scripture to then claim to fear the faith.
So please present the verses to recite, where in other claims you use to back your view point and yet here run a mile from doing so.

I love idiots.

by Tommy Monk Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:39 pm

It is in the Koran to fight non believers.

They just had to identify the non Muslims from The Muslims and asking them to say a few words from The Koran would be a simple way to do this.

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:42 pm

Is it in the Quarn to fight Non_believers, of course does not mean slay doe it Tommy?

So if the Quran is specific in fighting as you claim to Non-Believers, why is not thus specific in making people recite the quran and if they cannot execute them? Why is it also then that non-Believers are found in Islamic countries 1400 years later?

by Tommy Monk Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:48 pm

Found and in ever reducing numbers as they face constant persecution....

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:49 pm

Sorry can you repeat that in English?
Show me the verse?

by Tommy Monk Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:01 pm

Non Muslims are found in Islamic countries but in ever decreasing numbers because they face constant persecution and fear of being killed.

Just look at what happens to to Coptic Christians in Libya and the Yazidi people lately....

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:03 pm

But if thy are meant to be fought they would not exist using your thought process, being that they should be killed. That also they should be able to recite the Quran.
So show me where it states that Non_Muslims must be able to recite the Quran or be executed?

This is now over ten times asking you a simple question you keep trying to worm out of, proving your desperation here.

by Tommy Monk Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:08 pm

Already answered that it was never something I claimed.

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:13 pm

Yes it was something you claimed by claiming it was Islamic what they did.
For once in your life, be a man and admit you were wrong.

To all other posters, do not hold your breath.

by Tommy Monk Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:16 pm

Koran 9-29

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:17 pm

Is a verse to fight those who do not pay tax.
That is not a verse to command that Non_Muslims recite the Quran.

Try again

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:20 pm

Poor Tommy.

Catch you all later.

by Tommy Monk Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:16 pm

That terse justifies violence against non Muslims.

They used a simple way of deciding who was non Muslim by asking them to say some of the Koran, something that all Muslims would be able to do.

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:32 pm

The verse says nothing about reciting who is a Muslim.

Try again

by Tommy Monk Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:38 pm

No It doesn't and I never said it did.

The Muslim attackers devised their own simple test of who was Muslim or not by getting them all to say a bit of their Koran which non Muslims would not be able to do.

This is what the news articles said.

And gh not The subject of dispute.

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:42 pm

You stated that they were doing this because of Islam, thus now you are trying to worm your way out, because if it is Islamic, you can support this with written evidence?
Stop being a pathetic weasel and present the evidence, if not crawl back into the little cess pit you came from you pathetic idiot ha ha

by Tommy Monk Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:36 pm

Muslims attacking non Muslims...... nothing to do with Islam.....

by Guest Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:51 pm

So once again Tommy avoids answering the question.
Show me the verse where it states Non-Muslims have to recite the Quran or face execution?
This will continue until you answer and thus keep embarrassing you, showing up your ignorance.
Thus if it is Islamic, as you claimed, then you should be able to provide this verse?

No matter how long this take, you cannot keep avoiding.

Night.

by nicko Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:03 am

If they were not Muslims they were murdered weren't they, ? Religion of peace? don't make me laugh.

by Tommy Monk Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:48 pm

They were murdered because they were not Muslims.

by Guest Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:35 pm

Still waiting.

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