Arizona shooting instructor was shot and killed showing a nine-year-old girl how to use an Uzi

AN Arizona shooting instructor was accidentally shot and killed while showing a nine-year-old girl how to use an automatic Uzi, authorities said.

Charles Vacca, 39, of Lake Havasu City, Arizona, died on Monday shortly after being airlifted to University Medical Center in Las Vegas, Mohave County sheriff’s officials said.

Vacca was standing next to the girl at the Last Stop outdoor shooting range in White Hills when she pulled the trigger and the recoil sent the gun over her head, investigators said.

David wrote:A 9 year old should not be in a shooting range bloody hell!

victorisnotamused wrote:

David wrote:A 9 year old should not be in a shooting range bloody hell!

that depends on the weapon David.....

if you said that a 9 year old should not be handling automatic weapons then I would agree

but pray whats wrong with me teaching my 9YO grand son how to use a .410 at a clay shoot range, under either my own supervision or that of a competant instructor....

teach em young the safe way and respect for the gun and they will always be a safe shot

you would think nothing of me teaching him to drive a vehicle on private land.....

victorisnotamused wrote:

David wrote:A 9 year old should not be in a shooting range bloody hell!

that depends on the weapon David.....

if you said that a 9 year old should not be handling automatic weapons then I would agree

but pray whats wrong with me teaching my 9YO grand son how to use a .410 at a clay shoot range, under either my own supervision or that of a competant instructor....

teach em young the safe way and respect for the gun and they will always be a safe shot

you would think nothing of me teaching him to drive a vehicle on private land.....

David wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:
that depends on the weapon David.....

if you said that a 9 year old should not be handling automatic weapons then I would agree

but pray whats wrong with me teaching my 9YO grand son how to use a .410 at a clay shoot range, under either my own supervision or that of a competant instructor....

teach em young the safe way and respect for the gun and they will always be a safe shot

you would think nothing of me teaching him to drive a vehicle on private land.....

Victor, this was an automatic Uzi not clay pigeon shooting ...

Didge wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:
that depends on the weapon David.....

if you said that a 9 year old should not be handling automatic weapons then I would agree

but pray whats wrong with me teaching my 9YO grand son how to use a .410 at a clay shoot range, under either my own supervision or that of a competant instructor....

teach em young the safe way and respect for the gun and they will always be a safe shot

you would think nothing of me teaching him to drive a vehicle on private land.....

Does he need to practice with live ammunition to learn to shoot?

ummm...er...yes....its a bit difficult to know if you are actually hitting the clay unless you actually hit it

Have no issue with you teaching your own child to shoot, but with the risks involved accidents do happen, where a child is not exactly of that age having the ability to handle such a powerful weapon. Thus you decrease the risk factors do you not?
Plus 9 year olds are not allowed to drive cars on the main road

again...i did make that point didge....

victorisnotamused wrote:

Didge wrote:


Does he need to practice with live ammunition to learn to shoot?

ummm...er...yes....its a bit difficult to know if you are actually hitting the clay unless you actually hit it

Have no issue with you teaching your own child to shoot, but with the risks involved accidents do happen, where a child is not exactly of that age having the ability to handle such a powerful weapon. Thus you decrease the risk factors do you not?
Plus 9 year olds are not allowed to drive cars on the main road

again...i did make that point didge....

Didge wrote:



I said to learn to shoot, using live ammunition is not what I would back for a 9 year old to do, being again as they are not physically strong enough yet, to me you start off with smaller firearms, then they build up to shotguns when older, but that is just my view

Lone Wolf wrote:   SOME news reports yesterday were describing an Uzi as a "high powered" weapon !!!

I DON'T know why ignorant radio/TV copywriters have to embellish and exaggerate on subjects they basically know nothing about..

AN Uzi machine pistol or sub-machine gun normally fires a 9 mm round ~ not exactly "high powered".  They are also only short range weapons (between 100 down to only 30 metres, depending on the models..).

Their advantages are as a close combat and personal defence weapon, with a rapid rate of fire, light to handle and easy to maintain.

THE problem for the first-timers with a lot of machine pistols and sub-machine guns has nothing to do with "power" or any imagined "kickback" ~ and everything to do with the way that the gun rotates up-and-out in a crazy spiral pattern during firing..

SHOOTING instructors are supposed to be aware of this characteristic, and should both be preparing the shooter for the gun's behaviour, and standing behind them when they fire. (I suspect that irregardless of how experienced that instructor was, that this is yet another case of "familiarity breeding contempt" with a "cowboy" operator..) ?

AND no way would I be handing such a fundamentally unstable and tricky weapon to a 9 year old - you would expect a certain amount of bodyweight and upper body strength to hold rapid-fire and automatic weapons roughly on the target ?   ::rambo::

Lone Wolf wrote:
  "Darwinism in action !"

THIS kind of recent lunacy in Arizona, Colorado and Florida only goes to reinforce that well-worn observation that the USA is more often like a federation of 50 separate and individual little countries ~ rather than one big Union..

AND where those looney toon states like Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Missouri, New Mexico and Tennessee aren't only off on their own planets ~ but way out in their own little collective punyverse...

  ::rambo::

P.S.  ONE of the first things they teach in the Australian Army and Reserves, is that "there is no such thing as an 'accidental' shooting."   Any discharge of a weapon is either deliberate - or the result of carelessness, ignorance or over-familiarity..  NONE of which constitutes an actual "accident"...

Cass wrote:9 year old have no reason WHATSOEVER to be near automatic weapons let alone firing one.

her parents are criminally stupid. She is now going to have to live with this tragedy for the rest of her life through no fault of her own.

this really really makes me sick.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Cass wrote:9 year old have no reason WHATSOEVER to be near automatic weapons let alone firing one.

her parents are criminally stupid. She is now going to have to live with this tragedy for the rest of her life through no fault of her own.

this really really makes me sick.

Talking sense as usual, Cass. There's no need for most anyone to know how to use an Uzi, let alone a young child.

The problem with American gun enthusiasts is that they're reacting so strongly against the non-existent "threats to gun rights" that many of them have gone full-stop loony tunes. It is indeed the new American religion:



Now what's wrong with this picture?

Lone Wolf wrote:
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."
Samuel Johnson.

victorisnotamused wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Cass wrote:9 year old have no reason WHATSOEVER to be near automatic weapons let alone firing one.

her parents are criminally stupid. She is now going to have to live with this tragedy for the rest of her life through no fault of her own.

this really really makes me sick.

Talking sense as usual, Cass. There's no need for most anyone to know how to use an Uzi, let alone a young child.

The problem with American gun enthusiasts is that they're reacting so strongly against the non-existent "threats to gun rights" that many of them have gone full-stop loony tunes. It is indeed the new American religion:



Now what's wrong with this picture?

Nothing...its a suitable foil for ISIS

Ben_Reilly wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

Nothing...its a suitable foil for ISIS

Wrong -- the photo has a gun on top of a religious book that is supposed to be about love, nurturing and forgiveness,

but in actual point of fact is stuffed full of genocide, murder, sexual violence, approval of slavery and much more.....

backdropped by a legal document that has nothing to do with religion.

but provides the reason for the barmy firearms laws you have.....

And it has a double exclamation point, which should only be used when being silly ... so maybe it's a parody

maybe it is, but parody always has its roots in actuality...so what does it say about American society?

veya_victaous wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737205/Gun-girls-America-Innocent-faces-Pink-rifles-After-horrific-shooting-9-year-old-children-grip-nation-s-troubling-obsession.html

USA is Completely Fucked in the Head they give these MORON guns
how about giving these Girls a Basic EDUCATION!!!!
as all 3 feel they need Guns For Make Believe of Impossible reason... That Their parents probably also give the same reason why they need their guns
Parent should be in jail not for giving them guns but for denying them basic education.


Lily, 6, from Louisiana, told photographer An-Sofie Kesteleyn that she was afraid of zombies




Mackenzie, 8, wants her rifle to keep her safe from the devil according to a questionnaire she completed




Eight-year-old Abbey from Ohio wants her .22 caliber rifle in case she ever has to deal with a dinosaur

Lone Wolf wrote:ALL such parents as their's should be jailed for child abuse ~ and then given electric shock treatment to stop them repeating their offences (preferably with the electrodes on their nipples and genitals as well as their temples..).

Cass wrote:sorry didge I disagree....I would be upset if I saw boys this age with real working guns like these girls have.

and look at their responses : the devil, dinosaurs and zombies????? If they are still at an age to believe in fantasy creatures then they should most definetley NOT have access to real working weapons.

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:sorry didge I disagree....I would be upset if I saw boys this age with real working guns like these girls have.

and look at their responses : the devil, dinosaurs and zombies????? If they are still at an age to believe in fantasy creatures then they should most definetley NOT have access to real working weapons.

Who said anything about real guns Cass?
The pictures posted were toy guns, that is an air rifle in pink, though to me all toys, not real guns, so lets keep this in perspective.
If I am wrong and our real, will say it is wrong, as no child should play with real weapons unless it is for sport, but they do not look real to me when they look like made out of plastic.

Cass wrote:

Didge wrote:

Who said anything about real guns Cass?
The pictures posted were toy guns, that is an air rifle in pink, though to me all toys, not real guns, so lets keep this in perspective.
If I am wrong and our real, will say it is wrong, as no child should play with real weapons unless it is for sport, but they do not look real to me when they look like made out of plastic.

they are real didge .22 calibre rifles

and marketed in pink to specifically appeal to little girks


sick and twisted

Cass wrote:ok didge stop it. I did not see the picture you are referencing so please stop calling me a hypocrite. if I had I would've said the exact same thing - sick and twisted.

I don't like crossbows anymore than guns. or bows and arrows in the hands of children especially when they say they want protection from fictional characters.

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:ok didge stop it. I did not see the picture you are referencing so please stop calling me a hypocrite. if I had I would've said the exact same thing - sick and twisted.

I don't like crossbows anymore than guns. or bows and arrows in the hands of children especially when they say they want protection from fictional characters.

Stop what?
This is a debate cass and you are taking personal, which is not meant to be but a discussion, where to me sporting shooting events is not barbaric, because you are then implying they like to kill which is poor to view, when they might just enjoy the sport of shooting, which there is a huge difference, can you not see that?

Original Quill wrote:They are real, though cheap firearms.  That is a bolt-action .22 in each case.  You don't have a bolt on an air rifle.

And they are functioning.  Look how the bolt is up in pictures 2 and 3.  I can tell you as an American, this is the kind of thing that gun lovers would do.  They probably bought those firearms to "share" with the children.  And these are the first pictures, on their birthday or whenever.

Cass wrote:

Didge wrote:

Stop what?
This is a debate cass and you are taking personal, which is not meant to be but a discussion, where to me sporting shooting events is not barbaric, because you are then implying they like to kill which is poor to view, when they might just enjoy the sport of shooting, which there is a huge difference, can you not see that?

personal? you stated "and none of you made one peep,  which is worse?"

my comments were reflecting the original OP and then the article posted by Veya - not in a discussion about shooting for sports.

thanks.

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:

they are real didge .22 calibre rifles

and marketed in pink to specifically appeal to little girks


sick and twisted

Sorry disagree if for sport.

If they were holding a bow and arrow or crossbow and were state junior champions and posed holding the weapons would you state sick and twisted?
If posing for the fun of killing I would agree with you.
I would also agree if with posing with intent to cause harm to others like where we see children wearing fake suicide chests that only Victor and I commented on and none of you made one peep about, which is worse?
So lets say again about perspective, not one of you commented about that picture I showed with children holding real weapons and fake suicide chest, but children who may be interested in sports fanatics and we see such hypocrisy?
Sorry I really hate such hypocrisy, where none condemn one thing but never check to see if this is just a sport where some kids just enjoy shooting. If they like to kill, I would agree, but shooting for sport is not barbaric

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:

Sorry disagree if for sport.

If they were holding a bow and arrow or crossbow and were state junior champions and posed holding the weapons would you state sick and twisted?
If posing for the fun of killing I would agree with you.
I would also agree if with posing with intent to cause harm to others like where we see children wearing fake suicide chests that only Victor and I commented on and none of you made one peep about, which is worse?
So lets say again about perspective, not one of you commented about that picture I showed with children holding real weapons and fake suicide chest, but children who may be interested in sports fanatics and we see such hypocrisy?
Sorry I really hate such hypocrisy, where none condemn one thing but never check to see if this is just a sport where some kids just enjoy shooting. If they like to kill, I would agree, but shooting for sport is not barbaric

I am afraid that I would have the same response to a crossbow or ordinary bow.  They are killing instruments.

My objection is to an instrument designed for taking lives.  People make the argument about how cars kill so many more, but cars are not manufactured to kill.

But they are also used for hunting and trail use, so I don't condemn them absolutely as so many Europeans do.  But care and education, not NRA aggrandizement.

Didge wrote:Also how do you know any of the girls not in the pictures, being this is the daily Mail do not sport shoot?