How honest are you?

Why do I ask? All will be revealed in a minute. I'm no thief, I don't knock over old ladies and pinch their pensions. I don't like lies for the truth will always come out. BUT, I will take advantage of someone who doesn't pay attention to their job. Let me explain:

I went into a garage recently to fill up. I duly went to the checkout where there are two tills. The one I went to was a young girl, probably late teens, early twenties. As always I pointed to my car and said the pump number, and asked for a packet of baccy. Her colleague on the next till was having a laugh and joke with another customer, and the girl serving me was looking and listening the whole time. She got the baccy and I put my card in the slot, diddled the number. The girl gave me my reciept and off I went. I looked at the reciept as I got in the car and realised she hadn't charged me for the fuel. £40 worth! I casually belted up, expecting the girl to rush out after me, but no, she was serving the next customer, so I drove off. I've never seen the girl there since, not surprising really.

How honest are you? Do you or would you take advantage?

stardesk wrote:Why do I ask? All will be revealed in a minute. I'm no thief, I don't knock over old ladies and pinch their pensions. I don't like lies for the truth will always come out. BUT, I will take advantage of someone who doesn't pay attention to their job. Let me explain:

I went into a garage recently to fill up. I duly went to the checkout where there are two tills. The one I went to was a young girl, probably late teens, early twenties. As always I pointed to my car and said the pump number, and asked for a packet of baccy. Her colleague on the next till was having a laugh and joke with another customer, and the girl serving me was looking and listening the whole time. She got the baccy and I put my card in the slot, diddled the number. The girl gave me my reciept and off I went. I looked at the reciept as I got in the car and realised she hadn't charged me for the fuel. £40 worth! I casually belted up, expecting the girl to rush out after me, but no, she was serving the next customer, so I drove off. I've never seen the girl there since, not surprising really.

How honest are you? Do you or would you take advantage?

I think I'd feel too guilty, actually. It probably depends on the value of what I got for free. And for some reason, if my bank makes an error in my favor I get really indignant if they try to fix it

I'd feel too guilty to be honest. I honesty would go back in.

once years ago when I was a new mum, I was out shopping and had one of those huge boxes of washing powder on bottom of cart which I had forgotten to put on the belt.....after I paid up was on my way out when I realized what I did so went back to customer service and explained. the lady thought I was mad but appreciated my honesty and said don't worry about it which made me feel even worse!

If I noticed at the time i'd say something but if not Meh'

Also depends on the who and the organisation
if it looks like a trainee of something I would say something but if the cashier had been inattentive/poor service to me I wouldn't think twice about walking off.

Fuel is a bit different Here I know the camera will take your photo if you drive off from the bowsers without paying (even if you went in she wouldn't have marked it as paid on the system so the Camera would shoot)

£40 worth of petrol is a bit much.  I think I'd go back.

I get undercharged all the time at Safeway.  I always go back and try to correct the clerk.    Sometime the clerk simply says, Meh...get out of here.  Or she'll laugh and say, I got me own prices.

I figure I'm gonna see them every other day.  Besides, I don't need the money...ya know, that way.

About 4 months ago i bought some stuff in the local shop when I left the shop I thought I had been short changed by £10 i went back into the shop and brought it to the young lad's attention
He gave me the ten pounds I was short back .....


When I got home, I was telling the wife what had happened and then to my horror, I realized on emptying my carrier bag I had dropped the Original £10 in the bag when i was given it with my purchase and put the loose change in my pocket

i immediately went back to the shop and fess`d up and returned the £10

That should tell you how honest I am .................. :::grouch:: 

Last year and I have already posted about this, I found a £20 scottish note on the floor at an Asda in Edinburgh.

Picked it up and handed to a person on customer services. Why ? Because the person who had dropped it may have lost the money in their possesion. Customer services didn't even say thank you nor ask where I had found it. My guess is they pocketed it.

Hubby said I was mad but my consciensious was clear.

Very commendable of you all, for being honest. But there are some situations when I think, 'well serve you right, pay attention to your job.'

There are occasions when honesty has a pay-back. I found a wallet outside a supermarket doorway. I didn't look in it but took it to the local police station and handed it in. A couple of days later an elderly gentleman knocked on our door and handed me a bottle of wine, and a bunch of flowers, with many thanks and gratitude at being honest.

So it works both ways. Honesty does pay, but then as said, if people are going to be unattentive then, hey ho, thanks for anything in my favour. Mind you, it does work both ways, I've been short changed and no amount of argueing has put it right.

 

The idea of "Karma" in your present life (rather than having to wait for your 'next turn around'..) certainly works for me, in those sorts of situations...

Several years ago, I saw a $20 note fall from the shopping bag of a lady walking a few metres in front of me, and called her attention to it and scooped it up for her.. I know plenty of people who would have simply pocketed it, but over the following couple of months I picked up TEN TIMES that amount through a couple of other "fortuitous" (and honest..) means !

ON a different tact again: A couple of years later I donated a couple of pushbikes (in good order..) to a local refugee rehousing and help charity ~ within a few months I was offered a job that was better than what I was doing at that time..

SO this type of "Karma" pays back on charitable/'good deeds', as well as honesty.  

stardesk wrote:Why do I ask? All will be revealed in a minute. I'm no thief, I don't knock over old ladies and pinch their pensions. I don't like lies for the truth will always come out. BUT, I will take advantage of someone who doesn't pay attention to their job. Let me explain:

I went into a garage recently to fill up. I duly went to the checkout where there are two tills. The one I went to was a young girl, probably late teens, early twenties. As always I pointed to my car and said the pump number, and asked for a packet of baccy. Her colleague on the next till was having a laugh and joke with another customer, and the girl serving me was looking and listening the whole time. She got the baccy and I put my card in the slot, diddled the number. The girl gave me my reciept and off I went. I looked at the reciept as I got in the car and realised she hadn't charged me for the fuel. £40 worth! I casually belted up, expecting the girl to rush out after me, but no, she was serving the next customer, so I drove off. I've never seen the girl there since, not surprising really.

How honest are you? Do you or would you take advantage?

You're no thief? You just stole £40 worth of petrol. Sales assistants aren't perfect, so there was no need to "punish" her by stealing the petrol.

gerber wrote:Last year and I have already posted about this, I found a £20 scottish note on the floor at an Asda in Edinburgh.

Picked it up and handed to a person on customer services.  Why ? Because the person who had dropped it may have lost the money in their possesion.  Customer services didn't even say thank you nor ask where I had found it.  My guess is they pocketed it.

Hubby said I was mad but my consciensious was clear.

I doubt that the person pocketed it personally. The usual thing would be to put it aside with a note or something in case someone claimed it. If they didn't, it might go in the till, or possibly in a charity box.

stardesk wrote:Very commendable of you all, for being honest. But there are some situations when I think, 'well serve you right, pay attention to your job.'

There are occasions when honesty has a pay-back. I found a wallet outside a supermarket doorway. I didn't look in it but took it to the local police station and handed it in. A couple of days later an elderly gentleman knocked on our door and handed me a bottle of wine, and a bunch of flowers, with many thanks and gratitude at being honest.

So it works both ways. Honesty does pay, but then as said, if people are going to be unattentive then, hey ho, thanks for anything in my favour. Mind you, it does work both ways, I've been short changed and no amount of argueing has put it right.

So not only are you a thief, but you're also congratulating yourself for being a thief.   

Raggamuffin wrote:

gerber wrote:Last year and I have already posted about this, I found a £20 scottish note on the floor at an Asda in Edinburgh.

Picked it up and handed to a person on customer services.  Why ? Because the person who had dropped it may have lost the money in their possesion.  Customer services didn't even say thank you nor ask where I had found it.  My guess is they pocketed it.

Hubby said I was mad but my consciensious was clear.

I doubt that the person pocketed it personally. The usual thing would be to put it aside with a note or something in case someone claimed it. If they didn't, it might go in the till, or possibly in a charity box.

Yes, some of the larger concerns will do the 'right thing'.  I was a bit skeptical when I first read gerb's post.

But I know that Safeway has those automatic change dispensers, which release coins into cups for the customer.  Some customers forget to gather up the coins, and Safeway has a policy of immediately depositing the coins into collection boxes for Muscular Dystrophy that are at every check-out register.  Fair enough.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I doubt that the person pocketed it personally. The usual thing would be to put it aside with a note or something in case someone claimed it. If they didn't, it might go in the till, or possibly in a charity box.

Yes, some of the larger concerns will do the 'right thing'.  I was a bit skeptical when I first read gerb's post.

But I know that Safeway has those automatic change dispensers, which release coins into cups for the customer.  Some customers forget to gather up the coins, and Safeway has a policy of immediately depositing the coins into collection boxes for Muscular Dystrophy that are at every check-out register.  Fair enough.

A member of staff is unlikely to keep it as it's not their property, and they could be disciplined or even sacked. For an amount of that kind, I would think they would put it aside for a while to see if anyone claimed it.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I doubt that the person pocketed it personally. The usual thing would be to put it aside with a note or something in case someone claimed it. If they didn't, it might go in the till, or possibly in a charity box.

Yes, some of the larger concerns will do the 'right thing'.  I was a bit skeptical when I first read gerb's post.

But I know that Safeway has those automatic change dispensers, which release coins into cups for the customer.  Some customers forget to gather up the coins, and Safeway has a policy of immediately depositing the coins into collection boxes for Muscular Dystrophy that are at every check-out register.  Fair enough.

Yes our Morrisons does that for Sue Ryder

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Yes, some of the larger concerns will do the 'right thing'.  I was a bit skeptical when I first read gerb's post.

But I know that Safeway has those automatic change dispensers, which release coins into cups for the customer.  Some customers forget to gather up the coins, and Safeway has a policy of immediately depositing the coins into collection boxes for Muscular Dystrophy that are at every check-out register.  Fair enough.

A member of staff is unlikely to keep it as it's not their property, and they could be disciplined or even sacked. For an amount of that kind, I would think they would put it aside for a while to see if anyone claimed it.

Meh...I don't think reward-punishment psychology--of the kind so popular with conservatives--is at work here.  Humans are social animals.  Here's a large company that has a policy in place, suggesting what to do in a certain circumstance.  A social habit is formed.  It's as simple as that.

Nor do conservative notions about how evil man is, come into play if the amount at issue goes up.  As the amount goes up, I think the concern goes up...as I indicated in my own post.

I have walked out of the supermarket with a huge thing of toilet rolls I had forgotten hanging of thebag hook. I didn't go back in

We will return it to Morrisons.   

Nems wrote:I have walked out of the supermarket with a huge thing of toilet rolls I had forgotten hanging of thebag hook. I didn't go back in

Why not?

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

A member of staff is unlikely to keep it as it's not their property, and they could be disciplined or even sacked. For an amount of that kind, I would think they would put it aside for a while to see if anyone claimed it.

Meh...I don't think reward-punishment psychology--of the kind so popular with conservatives--is at work here.  Humans are social animals.  Here's a large company that has a policy in place, suggesting what to do in a certain circumstance.  A social habit is formed.  It's as simple as that.

Nor do conservative notions about how evil man is, come into play if the amount at issue goes up.  As the amount goes up, I think the concern goes up...as I indicated in my own post.

I daresay most sales assistants would be too honest to pocket the money.

Original Quill wrote:

We will return it to Morrisons.   

  
That reminds me of the first time I went abroad and was totally horrifies at those bins of paper next to the loo!

Nems wrote:I have walked out of the supermarket with a huge thing of toilet rolls I had forgotten hanging of thebag hook. I didn't go back in

I've lost count of the number of bags of toilet rolls I've paid for and forgotten to take off the hook and put in the boot    Maybe it all evens out in the end

feelthelove wrote:

Nems wrote:I have walked out of the supermarket with a huge thing of toilet rolls I had forgotten hanging of thebag hook. I didn't go back in

I've lost count of the number of bags of toilet rolls I've paid for and forgotten to take off the hook and put in the boot    Maybe it all evens out in the end

Not really. If you realised you hadn't paid, you should have gone back and paid IMO. I don't get how people can walk off with something they hadn't paid for.

Raggamuffin wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

I've lost count of the number of bags of toilet rolls I've paid for and forgotten to take off the hook and put in the boot    Maybe it all evens out in the end

Not really. If you realised you hadn't paid, you should have gone back and paid IMO. I don't get how people can walk off with something they hadn't paid for.

I manage to live with it

Raggamuffin wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

I've lost count of the number of bags of toilet rolls I've paid for and forgotten to take off the hook and put in the boot    Maybe it all evens out in the end

Not really. If you realised you hadn't paid, you should have gone back and paid IMO. I don't get how people can walk off with something they hadn't paid for.

I had paid for them, I left them on the trolley Raggs

feelthelove wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Not really. If you realised you hadn't paid, you should have gone back and paid IMO. I don't get how people can walk off with something they hadn't paid for.

I had paid for them, I left them on the trolley Raggs

You would have to own up. You get the vapours when I use the parent and toddler parking spaces!

Nems wrote:I have walked out of the supermarket with a huge thing of toilet rolls I had forgotten hanging of thebag hook. I didn't go back in

My Uncle did that with one of those spit roast chickens they have, he gave it his son to carry to save it making everything in the trolley hot and he only realised when he got home he had walked right through the check out and not paid for it   

Nems wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

I had paid for them, I left them on the trolley Raggs

You would have to own up. You get the vapours when I use the parent and toddler parking spaces!

Yes well, I am over 40 now.  There is no way in hell I'd pass for a toddler   x

harvesmom wrote:

Nems wrote:I have walked out of the supermarket with a huge thing of toilet rolls I had forgotten hanging of thebag hook. I didn't go back in

My Uncle did that with one of those spit roast chickens they have, he gave it his son to carry to save it making everything in the trolley hot and he only realised when he got home he had walked right through the check out and not paid for it   

Its so easy to do especially if its busy and you are trying to hurry

feelthelove wrote:

Nems wrote:

You would have to own up. You get the vapours when I use the parent and toddler parking spaces!

Yes well, I am over 40 now.  There is no way in hell I'd pass for a toddler   x

Not in those heels!

Raggy, I think you're missing the point, which is that if someone is paid to do a job then they should pay attention and do it properly. My fuel situation was a classic example of incompetance which was to my advantage. As with another occasion. When we used to have a Woolworths I went in and got some packets of seeds for the garden, and a new spade for digging etc. I stood at the till and put the seeds on the counter and stood with the spade in front of me. The girl duly charged me for the seeds but not the spade. I picked it up and the seeds, began walking out expecting a shout, but no, again someone not paying attention, all to my advantage.

If people can't do their job efficiently then they shouldn't be doing it.

Nems wrote:

feelthelove wrote:

Yes well, I am over 40 now.  There is no way in hell I'd pass for a toddler   x

Not in those heels!

Hahaha! You know me too well x

feelthelove wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Not really. If you realised you hadn't paid, you should have gone back and paid IMO. I don't get how people can walk off with something they hadn't paid for.

I had paid for them, I left them on the trolley Raggs

Sorry - I thought you were Nems.   

stardesk wrote:Raggy, I think you're missing the point, which is that if someone is paid to do a job then they should pay attention and do it properly. My fuel situation was a classic example of incompetance which was to my advantage. As with another occasion. When we used to have a Woolworths I went in and got some packets of seeds for the garden, and a new spade for digging etc. I stood at the till and put the seeds on the counter and stood with the spade in front of me. The girl duly charged me for the seeds but not the spade. I picked it up and the seeds, began walking out expecting a shout, but no, again someone not paying attention, all to my advantage.

If people can't do their job efficiently then they shouldn't be doing it.

I think it's you who's missing the point. You knew straight away that you hadn't paid for the petrol and you just drove off instead of going back in and telling them. The fact that the assistant made a mistake doesn't mean you didn't steal the petrol. I hope you get arrested for shop lifting one day.

stardesk wrote:Raggy, I think you're missing the point, which is that if someone is paid to do a job then they should pay attention and do it properly. My fuel situation was a classic example of incompetance which was to my advantage. As with another occasion. When we used to have a Woolworths I went in and got some packets of seeds for the garden, and a new spade for digging etc. I stood at the till and put the seeds on the counter and stood with the spade in front of me. The girl duly charged me for the seeds but not the spade. I picked it up and the seeds, began walking out expecting a shout, but no, again someone not paying attention, all to my advantage.

If people can't do their job efficiently then they shouldn't be doing it.

your missing the point you knew you had not paid and willfully drove away that's theft in anybodys book

And you know that
Trying to justify that theft by blaming the assistant for your dishonestness points to your character and if you cant be trusted to pay what you are due then you can't be trusted in other matters

Korben_Dallas wrote:

stardesk wrote:Raggy, I think you're missing the point, which is that if someone is paid to do a job then they should pay attention and do it properly. My fuel situation was a classic example of incompetance which was to my advantage. As with another occasion. When we used to have a Woolworths I went in and got some packets of seeds for the garden, and a new spade for digging etc. I stood at the till and put the seeds on the counter and stood with the spade in front of me. The girl duly charged me for the seeds but not the spade. I picked it up and the seeds, began walking out expecting a shout, but no, again someone not paying attention, all to my advantage.

If people can't do their job efficiently then they shouldn't be doing it.

your missing the point you knew you had not paid and willfully drove away that's theft in anybodys book

And you know that
Trying to justify that theft by blaming the assistant for your dishonestness points to your character and if you cant be trusted to pay what you are due then you can't be trusted in other matters  

LOLZ       
same with EVERY business Person,Politician and Banker to have ever lived   

The Problem it is not nice but, if you don't then only you will be the loser economically.

The Whole Notion of Profit is Charging More for something than it is actually worth (the value of difference between what you charged and what it actually cost is literally 'the profit')

Also Businesses will DO the Exact same to you every single chance they get...  "Sorry Sir it is clearly in the terms and conditions"   


IF humans really disliked theft we would not elect thieves as leaders and reward them with more resources(money) than everyone else    

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Meh...I don't think reward-punishment psychology--of the kind so popular with conservatives--is at work here.  Humans are social animals.  Here's a large company that has a policy in place, suggesting what to do in a certain circumstance.  A social habit is formed.  It's as simple as that.

Nor do conservative notions about how evil man is, come into play if the amount at issue goes up.  As the amount goes up, I think the concern goes up...as I indicated in my own post.

I daresay most sales assistants would be too honest to pocket the money.

So you agree with me.  It's not fear of punishment, but a social habit that makes it so.

The theory of individualism suggests that a person is motivated only by personal reasons...reward and punishment being one of the principal dialectics.  But once you recognize that our behavior is motivated by our social existence, you begin see it in socialistic terms.

veya_victaous wrote:

Korben_Dallas wrote:
your missing the point you knew you had not paid and willfully drove away that's theft in anybodys book

And you know that
Trying to justify that theft by blaming the assistant for your dishonestness points to your character and if you cant be trusted to pay what you are due then you can't be trusted in other matters  

LOLZ       
same with EVERY business Person,Politician and Banker to have ever lived   

The Problem it is not nice but, if you don't then only you will be the loser economically.

The Whole Notion of Profit is Charging More for something than it is actually worth (the value of difference between what you charged and what it actually cost is literally 'the profit')

Also Businesses will DO the Exact same to you every single chance they get...  "Sorry Sir it is clearly in the terms and conditions"   


IF humans really disliked theft we would not elect thieves as leaders and reward them with more resources(money) than everyone else    

Absolutely agree.  Anyone with an MBA in retail marketing today knows that the whole art of maximizing retail sales is a form of cheating.  You know those lowered prices on the shelves that they say 'accidentally' moved?

And you believed them??   ://?roflmao?/:

It's called 'shelf creep' and the junior stocking clerk is tasked with the job.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I daresay most sales assistants would be too honest to pocket the money.

So you agree with me.  It's not fear of punishment, but a social habit that makes it so.

The theory of individualism suggests that a person is motivated only by personal reasons...reward and punishment being one of the principal dialectics.  But once you recognize that our behavior is motivated by our social existence, you begin see it in socialistic terms.

Yes I do agree with you, but I guess that some people might be tempted to pocket the money because, after all, that wouldn't hurt anyone.

stardesk wrote:Why do I ask? All will be revealed in a minute. I'm no thief, I don't knock over old ladies and pinch their pensions. I don't like lies for the truth will always come out. BUT, I will take advantage of someone who doesn't pay attention to their job. Let me explain:

I went into a garage recently to fill up. I duly went to the checkout where there are two tills. The one I went to was a young girl, probably late teens, early twenties. As always I pointed to my car and said the pump number, and asked for a packet of baccy. Her colleague on the next till was having a laugh and joke with another customer, and the girl serving me was looking and listening the whole time. She got the baccy and I put my card in the slot, diddled the number. The girl gave me my reciept and off I went. I looked at the reciept as I got in the car and realised she hadn't charged me for the fuel. £40 worth! I casually belted up, expecting the girl to rush out after me, but no, she was serving the next customer, so I drove off. I've never seen the girl there since, not surprising really.

How honest are you? Do you or would you take advantage?

Are you suggesting that the girl might have been sacked?

I'm beginning to think this story is a metaphor for something else - a dig at "right wing" people maybe? You know, take advantage of people's weaknesses in order to profit? A test for "left wing" people to see if they condemn what you did?

Original Quill wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

LOLZ       
same with EVERY business Person,Politician and Banker to have ever lived   

The Problem it is not nice but, if you don't then only you will be the loser economically.

The Whole Notion of Profit is Charging More for something than it is actually worth (the value of difference between what you charged and what it actually cost is literally 'the profit')

Also Businesses will DO the Exact same to you every single chance they get...  "Sorry Sir it is clearly in the terms and conditions"   


IF humans really disliked theft we would not elect thieves as leaders and reward them with more resources(money) than everyone else    

Absolutely agree.  Anyone with an MBA in retail marketing today knows that the whole art of maximizing retail sales is a form of cheating.  You know those lowered prices on the shelves that they say 'accidentally' moved?

And you believed them??   ://?roflmao?/:

It's called 'shelf creep' and the junior stocking clerk is tasked with the job.

I don't get that. If the price on a shelf is lower than the price of the product, most shops would honour it. Maybe some customers move prices around on a shelf because they know that?

Raggy, let me ask you a question: If you found a coin on the ground what would you do with it? Pocket it or ask around if anyone had dropped it? If you put it in your pocket then that's taking advantage of someone else's incompetence or negligence.
In a nutshell, theft.

The same situation applied to my fuel situation. I benefitted from someone's incompetence.

Mention was made above of shops and supermarkets. They advertise various products as fresh, but oh no they're not. Many products, especially fruit, veg, and fish, come from abroad. A lot of handling and time passes before they're on the shelf. Certainly not 'fresh.' As you will no doubt know, a lettuce from the supermarket, though placed in your fridge, soon goes off, as with other perishable goods. We are ripped off all the time, so don't lecture to me about honesty.

Being a veg grower in my garden I know only too well how long various veggies will last. Quite a long time, unlike shops.

BTW Raggy, you mentione above about people moving price-tags around. That wont work, for just about every shop scans the product bar codes, so swapping labels wont work.

stardesk wrote:Raggy, let me ask you a question: If you found a coin on the ground what would you do with it? Pocket it or ask around if anyone had dropped it? If you put it in your pocket then that's taking advantage of someone else's incompetence or negligence.
In a nutshell, theft.

The same situation applied to my fuel situation. I benefitted from someone's incompetence.

Mention was made above of shops and supermarkets. They advertise various products as fresh, but oh no they're not. Many products, especially fruit, veg, and fish, come from abroad. A lot of handling and time passes before they're on the shelf. Certainly not 'fresh.' As you will no doubt know, a lettuce from the supermarket, though placed in your fridge, soon goes off, as with other perishable goods. We are ripped off all the time, so don't lecture to me about honesty.

Being a veg grower in my garden I know only too well how long various veggies will last. Quite a long time, unlike shops.

BTW Raggy, you mentione above about people moving price-tags around. That wont work, for just about every shop scans the product bar codes, so swapping labels wont work.

Couldn't agree more Stardesk, and don't even get me started on Farmers Markets   

A man round by me does about 4 a week, he sells 'fresh' eggs, home made pickles, jams and chutneys and scotch eggs. He calls himself XXXXX Farms, which would IMPLY that all the goods are off his own farm and home made.... the reality is that he certainly doesn't live on a farm, he buys the eggs from a local farm cheap when they have about a week left on them, and the 'home made' jams etc are bought in catering pack sizes from Lidl and repacked into his own jars and home made labels. The scotch eggs come from Tesco... nothing is what it seems, yet he gets away with charging a fortune because people perceive they are getting something fresh from a farm and home made.

Hi Harvesmom. Got to go now but will be back later on that issue of so called farmer's markets etc. See you later.

stardesk wrote:Raggy, let me ask you a question: If you found a coin on the ground what would you do with it? Pocket it or ask around if anyone had dropped it? If you put it in your pocket then that's taking advantage of someone else's incompetence or negligence.
In a nutshell, theft.

The same situation applied to my fuel situation. I benefitted from someone's incompetence.

Mention was made above of shops and supermarkets. They advertise various products as fresh, but oh no they're not. Many products, especially fruit, veg, and fish, come from abroad. A lot of handling and time passes before they're on the shelf. Certainly not 'fresh.' As you will no doubt know, a lettuce from the supermarket, though placed in your fridge, soon goes off, as with other perishable goods. We are ripped off all the time, so don't lecture to me about honesty.

Being a veg grower in my garden I know only too well how long various veggies will last. Quite a long time, unlike shops.

BTW Raggy, you mentione above about people moving price-tags around. That wont work, for just about every shop scans the product bar codes, so swapping labels wont work.

If I found a coin on the floor, I would have no idea who it belonged to. You knew you'd had the petrol and you still drove off without paying, so don't compare the two things. Same with the spade - you walked out of the shop without paying for it - that's shop lifting. I don't get how you can sit here and volunteer the fact that you're a thief, and then try to justify it.

If you know that vegetables aren't fresh, don't buy them - simple.

Nothing excuses what you did.

Re moving price tags around, the point is that if a product is advertised at a certain price on a shelf - even if the ticket is in the wrong place, most shops would honour that, although they don't have to.

I always read my receipt. a number of times I've found that I wasn't charged the correct lower price and they have a policy of refunding for the difference and the cost of the item and you get to keep it.

funnily enough ive never been undercharged.

they now have scanners on the bottom for stuff under the trolley. they don't do hooks here dammit which means ive got nowhere to hang my handbag or reuseable bags.

Few months agowhen buying my mum a car I found a handful of pennies in parking lot....was weird.....picked them up and put them in charity pot inside car dealer. if I cant find a pot I put them in special pocket in bag and then dump them when I find one.

I'm NOT a paragon of virture - far from it - but I cant live with taking stuff that doesn't belong to me.

star in this case I have to disagree about the petrol.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Absolutely agree.  Anyone with an MBA in retail marketing today knows that the whole art of maximizing retail sales is a form of cheating.  You know those lowered prices on the shelves that they say 'accidentally' moved?

And you believed them??   ://?roflmao?/:

It's called 'shelf creep' and the junior stocking clerk is tasked with the job.

I don't get that. If the price on a shelf is lower than the price of the product, most shops would honour it. Maybe some customers move prices around on a shelf because they know that?

That's because they got caught. Safeway Stores is among the top businesses being continually investigated by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). They don't need any more trouble; if anyone hints at an offense, they jump.

Nevertheless, the retail game is geared toward deception. Most of the things you see and figure out...yep, it was intentional.

stardesk wrote:Raggy, let me ask you a question: If you found a coin on the ground what would you do with it? Pocket it or ask around if anyone had dropped it? If you put it in your pocket then that's taking advantage of someone else's incompetence or negligence.
In a nutshell, theft.

The same situation applied to my fuel situation. I benefitted from someone's incompetence.

Mention was made above of shops and supermarkets. They advertise various products as fresh, but oh no they're not. Many products, especially fruit, veg, and fish, come from abroad. A lot of handling and time passes before they're on the shelf. Certainly not 'fresh.' As you will no doubt know, a lettuce from the supermarket, though placed in your fridge, soon goes off, as with other perishable goods. We are ripped off all the time, so don't lecture to me about honesty.

Being a veg grower in my garden I know only too well how long various veggies will last. Quite a long time, unlike shops.

BTW Raggy, you mentione above about people moving price-tags around. That wont work, for just about every shop scans the product bar codes, so swapping labels wont work.

I tend to stick it in the nearest charity box

Also just as a thought technically finding a coin ,a pen ,or anything in the street  and pocketing is theft by finding



Theft by finding occurs when someone who chances upon an object which seems abandoned takes possession of the object but fails to take steps to establish whether the object is abandoned and not merely lost or unattended In some jurisdictions the crime is called "larceny by finding" or "stealing by finding".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding

Raggamuffin wrote:

stardesk wrote:Raggy, let me ask you a question: If you found a coin on the ground what would you do with it? Pocket it or ask around if anyone had dropped it? If you put it in your pocket then that's taking advantage of someone else's incompetence or negligence.
In a nutshell, theft.

The same situation applied to my fuel situation. I benefitted from someone's incompetence.

Mention was made above of shops and supermarkets. They advertise various products as fresh, but oh no they're not. Many products, especially fruit, veg, and fish, come from abroad. A lot of handling and time passes before they're on the shelf. Certainly not 'fresh.' As you will no doubt know, a lettuce from the supermarket, though placed in your fridge, soon goes off, as with other perishable goods. We are ripped off all the time, so don't lecture to me about honesty.

Being a veg grower in my garden I know only too well how long various veggies will last. Quite a long time, unlike shops.

BTW Raggy, you mentione above about people moving price-tags around. That wont work, for just about every shop scans the product bar codes, so swapping labels wont work.

If I found a coin on the floor, I would have no idea who it belonged to. You knew you'd had the petrol and you still drove off without paying, so don't compare the two things. Same with the spade - you walked out of the shop without paying for it - that's shop lifting. I don't get how you can sit here and volunteer the fact that you're a thief, and then try to justify it.

If you know that vegetables aren't fresh, don't buy them - simple.

Nothing excuses what you did.

Re moving price tags around, the point is that if a product is advertised at a certain price on a shelf - even if the ticket is in the wrong place, most shops would honour that, although they don't have to.

Not exactly, Raggs.  Stardust did not "take" with mens res.  Mens res means:

Legal Dictionary wrote:Mens Rea

As an element of criminal responsibility, a guilty mind; a guilty or wrongful purpose; a criminal intent. Guilty knowledge and wilfulness.

A fundamental principle of Criminal Law is that a crime consists of both a mental and a physical element. Mens rea, a person's awareness of the fact that his or her conduct is criminal, is the mental element, and actus reus, the act itself, is the physical element.

The concept of mens rea developed in England during the latter part of the common-law era (about the year 1600) when judges began to hold that an act alone could not create criminal liability unless it was accompanied by a guilty state of mind. The degree of mens rea required for a particular common-law crime varied. Murder, for example, required a malicious state of mind, whereas Larceny required a felonious state of mind.

Today most crimes, including common-law crimes, are defined by statutes that usually contain a word or phrase indicating the mens rea requirement. A typical statute, for example, may require that a person act knowingly, purposely, or recklessly.

In none of the cases did Stardust act with knowledge of a taking.  He only came upon the fact after leaving the premises.

Of course, mens res can arise after the fact.  This comes up most frequently in those cases where an automatic deposit of a large amount of money into a bank account takes place, and subsequently the money is used.  Even here, however, the prosecution must prove knowledge and intent, and this involves evidence of surrounding facts.  If the owner of the account simply goes about his business, without indication in fact that he knew about the deposit, he is innocent.

If Stardust had never let it be known that he had later looked at the receipt of the petrol purchase, and gone about his business, he could not be convicted. But in truth he did tell us. And in fact, the business could easily have recouped the £40 by a later bank exchange...but they obviously either didn't look, or thought it was too much trouble.