So this is how I am and this is why I can call myself honest

So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

You would eventually get fired for that here. You could het away wirh it outside of a work environment with people you know, but not a stranger in the restaurant business.

I push the envelope myself, but not that far.

If I got fired for that, what would that say about the people that employed me?
And, if I got fired for that, I would rather not work for people like that because I wouldn’t last long.

So my point is this: are people repressed because they’re scared? And if we all stay repressed, where does that get us?

I won’t conform because I know I am right. It was a
HUMAN MOMENT.
People crave those.

What would you have said to the black man?

eddie wrote:If I got fired for that, what would that say about the people that employed me?
And, if I got fired for that, I would rather not work for people like that because I wouldn’t last long.

So my point is this: are people repressed because they’re scared? And if we all stay repressed, where does that get us?

I won’t conform because I know I am right. It was a
HUMAN MOMENT.
People crave those.

What would you have said to the black man?

I would have smirked and said "it's a bit warmish, aint it"?

But I don't do stereotypes except with people I know, especially black people. It's a giant no no for a middle aged, cis gendered, white dude with a pretty good Texan drawl, to ever interact with a black person like that, that I don't know.

While I know that race issues affect all cultures, the slavery issue here in America makes the relationship here much different. You just don't go there, because a good portion of the black community would be very offended by you doing that.

Also, the fact that he is a man and you are a woman makes it a little different. Men of all races are more apt to laugh at comments like that coming from a woman. If you pulled that on a table full of black women in Texas, I don't think that would have gone over very well at all.

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

It wasn't racist, of course it wasn't.
That said, in the world we live in there certainly some that would say it was. Fuck those people.

Would I have said it? I've no idea exactly what I'd say in that exact situation, but I probably wouldn't have mentioned his colour, because that just isn't something I'd do generally. I'd probably ask him, jokingly, what he expected hot jerk sauce to taste like, but that's it. And tbf it's the same thing I'd have said to anyone

Maddog

The only point I can accept is your man/woman thing but apart from that..do you know what you’re doing?

*You’re buying into repression: You “shouldn’t” say it so you don’t.
Why not break the cycle?

*You’re buying into assumption: You are assuming that the guy will be offended.
Why not break the cycle?

You’re buying into the “stereotype” excuse by ignoring it or facing someone telling you that you’re wrong and you are assuming that stereotypes are bad.
Why not break the cycle?

Do you see that you will never know until you communicate with people properly?
That man lit up, he lit up because he laughed so hard and he was also so HUMAN in that moment.

Know why? Because I SAW him.

I don’t know if anyone will ever get it, that raw human honesty, but it never lets me down.

eddie wrote:Maddog

The only point I can accept is your man/woman thing but apart from that..do you know what you’re doing?

*You’re buying into repression: You “shouldn’t” say it so you don’t.
Why not break the cycle?

*You’re buying into assumption: You are assuming that the guy will be offended.
Why not break the cycle?

You’re buying into the “stereotype” excuse by ignoring it or facing someone telling you that you’re wrong and you are assuming that stereotypes are bad.
Why not break the cycle?

Do you see that you will never know until you communicate with people properly?
That man lit up, he lit up because he laughed so hard and he was also so HUMAN in that moment.

Know why? Because I SAW him.

I don’t know if anyone will ever get it, that raw human honesty, but it never lets me down.

I don't need the drama.

I catch enough flack for being a sexist, racist, uncivilized reprobate as it is.

I'm still a smart ass to people, but I have to leave race comments out, where I live anyway.

Unless it's self deprecating humor directed at the dumb things white people do. That's acceptable, except to a few white people, but that's not a problem for a fellow white people like me.

I suggest you read your own comments back. You’ve just made a shit ton of reasons aka excuses, but you haven’t said “But I’m scared to step out of the box”

Because....?

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

It wasn't racist, of course it wasn't.
That said, in the world we live in there certainly some that would say it was. Fuck those people.

Would I have said it? I've no idea exactly what I'd say in that exact situation, but I probably wouldn't have mentioned his colour, because that just isn't something I'd do generally. I'd probably ask him, jokingly, what he expected hot jerk sauce to taste like, but that's it. And tbf it's the same thing I'd have said to anyone

I know. I know you’re like that.
Don’t you wish you could be more free?

I have no idea whether I’m right or wrong, I just know that I reach people. They keep coming back to eat where I work and I have managers asking me how I am the way I am.

I can’t really explain it but I will. Give me time.

eddie wrote:I suggest you read your own comments back. You’ve just made a shit ton of reasons aka excuses, but you haven’t said “But I’m scared to step out of the box”

Because....?

I see no reason to.

I know what would happen if I did, because I have seen enough people go through hell for much less.

I know my people here. I know what I can get away with and what I can't.

It's not fear but knowledge and experience that drives me.

eddie wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

It wasn't racist, of course it wasn't.
That said, in the world we live in there certainly some that would say it was. Fuck those people.

Would I have said it? I've no idea exactly what I'd say in that exact situation, but I probably wouldn't have mentioned his colour, because that just isn't something I'd do generally. I'd probably ask him, jokingly, what he expected hot jerk sauce to taste like, but that's it. And tbf it's the same thing I'd have said to anyone

I know. I know you’re like that.
Don’t you wish you could be more free?

I have no idea whether I’m right or wrong, I just know that I reach people. They keep coming back to eat where I work and I have managers asking me how I am the way I am.  

I can’t really explain it but I will. Give me time.

But saying 'don't you wish you could be more free' implies you think that the only reason I won't reference skin colour is because of my own sensitivity.

It isn't. I just wouldn't say it. I don't feel 'not free' by not doing.

In fact, when in the UK, I don't feel the need to not say thing at all.

I live in Thailand, a country where free speech is actually SERIOUSLY restricted.

As a foreigner, I'd never speak publicly against the government - Thais can be arrested for that, I'd never be allowed in the country again.
Anyone who criticises the monarchy faces jail under the lese majeste laws prohibiting it.

Despite this, I do talk politics with some long terms students who want to and encourage them to speak freely in my school (think of it as a 'safe space' lol).

Speaking against religion, government or monarchy, or speaking about private issues in Thailand ranges from socially unacceptable to breaking the law.

The UK is fucking paradise in this regard.

I don't avoid saying things in the UK due to not feeling free, I say what I want

If it's that repressive, why do you work there ? [just asking] .

nicko wrote:If it's that repressive, why do you work there ?   [just asking] .

Unlike many here, I don't think absolute free speech is everything.

Plus, around friends and family almost any subject is fine. And it's only really those subjects. Contrary to my interest on this forum, I do not, astonishingly, spend most of my conversations talking about politics

The amazing weather, delicious food, the job I love, cheap prices and easy access to all of Asia, oh, and my husband, obviously, all give me plenty of reason to stay here. Not being able to criticize the government is hardly giving me sleepless nights

I brought it up as a point of reference. It is insane how much Brits complain about PC and not being able to say what you want - when in reality the laws in England amount to "don't say racist, homophobic or sexist things" - while in many places saying the 'wrong' thing on certain issues actually lands you with hefty jail sentences.

There is no political freedom of speech in Thailand, though this will hopefully change soon following next months elections (first ones since the 2014 coup!)

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

I get your point on honesty, but your intent is not based on malice or hate

Now am not aware that using the word "black" is now deemed offensive. Though like Eizel, I do not really use a label of people to define who they are. Apart from political terms, like left and right I can and do cast on people and should also refrain from doing so. As it really does not serve any purpose in debate, when people have mixed political views. Its important to point out how extreme a political view is and if a collective of those people are causing problems in society, based on their extreme beliefs. This is where the lines become blurred, on how something is deemed offensive.

At the end of the day, you never used what can be classed an offensive term or used in an offensive way. I mean if you replaced the word black, with the n-word. Do you think you would have gotten the same reaction or something different Eddie? Now if a racist was honest and did this. What do you think the reaction would be?

The problem to me is the use of constant labels for people. These labels are simple nothing more than social contructs and its how poor and bad sterotypes form. I also think people are over sensitive in regards to things that are never offensive in the first place

You had no hateful intent here and were clearly being light humoured, but a PC driven society, does and clearly has made people fear using such terms as you did here. Through a fear of being labelled racist themselves.

The reality is this person saw the funny side and all it would take is a black person brainwashed on intersectionality to take offense and you could of actually of lost your job. Which would have been wrong, as you clearly never intended any racial hate but simple humour. Though I know people brainwashed on this warped ideology, that see offense in everything and because they are black and you white. It would be twisted by them to claim you were being racist.

That is the reality we live in now, brought about by Political correctness. Which is denying people being honest. So on that you are right.

Thor wrote:

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

I get your point on honesty, but your intent is not based on malice or hate

Now am not aware that using the word "black" is now deemed offensive. Though like Eizel, I do not really use a label of people to define who they are. Apart from political terms, like left and right I can and do cast on people and should also refrain from doing so. As it really does not serve any purpose in debate, when people have mixed political views. Its important to point out how extreme a political view is and if a collective of those people are causing problems in society, based on their extreme beliefs. This is where the lines become blurred, on how something is deemed offensive.

At the end of the day, you never used what can be classed an offensive term or used in an offensive way. I mean if you replaced the word black, with the n-word. Do you think you would have gotten the same reaction or something different Eddie? Now if a racist was honest and did this. What do you think the reaction would be?

The problem to me is the use of constant labels for people. These labels are simple nothing more than social contructs and its how poor and bad sterotypes form. I also think people are over sensitive in regards to things that are never offensive in the first place

You had no hateful intent here and were clearly being light humoured, but a PC driven society, does and clearly has made people fear using such terms as you did here. Through a fear of being labelled racist themselves.

The reality is this person saw the funny side and all it would take is a black person brainwashed on intersectionality to take offense and you could of actually of lost your job. Which would have been wrong, as you clearly never intended any racial hate but simple humour. Though I know people brainwashed on this warped ideology, that see offense in everything and because they are black and you white. It would be twisted by them to claim you were being racist.

That is the reality we live in now, brought about by Political correctness. Which is denying people being honest. So on that you are right.

The bolded part is a great point.

The fact society has become PC is a sad result of the fact racism/bigotry did and still does exist (to a point) in our society.

I love all forms of offensive humour - Ricky Gervais and Jimmy Carr build their skits on it. But we know absolutely that there is no hate or malice. The same is true for Eds and most on here when using certain words or making certain jokes.

The problem is 'some' who do, do do it with malice (note: 5***** for me for fitting three dos in a row lol). It's why I would never be offended by a gay joke from you or Eds; but if certain other posters, the ones who relentlessly oppose gay rights, made the same jokes, I'd think them as cunts for doing so. Because, ultimately, I'd know they were doing it out of spite.

Would I be offended? No. I'd just think they're cunts, and tell them as much

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

I get your point on honesty, but your intent is not based on malice or hate

Now am not aware that using the word "black" is now deemed offensive. Though like Eizel, I do not really use a label of people to define who they are. Apart from political terms, like left and right I can and do cast on people and should also refrain from doing so. As it really does not serve any purpose in debate, when people have mixed political views. Its important to point out how extreme a political view is and if a collective of those people are causing problems in society, based on their extreme beliefs. This is where the lines become blurred, on how something is deemed offensive.

At the end of the day, you never used what can be classed an offensive term or used in an offensive way. I mean if you replaced the word black, with the n-word. Do you think you would have gotten the same reaction or something different Eddie? Now if a racist was honest and did this. What do you think the reaction would be?

The problem to me is the use of constant labels for people. These labels are simple nothing more than social contructs and its how poor and bad sterotypes form. I also think people are over sensitive in regards to things that are never offensive in the first place

You had no hateful intent here and were clearly being light humoured, but a PC driven society, does and clearly has made people fear using such terms as you did here. Through a fear of being labelled racist themselves.

The reality is this person saw the funny side and all it would take is a black person brainwashed on intersectionality to take offense and you could of actually of lost your job. Which would have been wrong, as you clearly never intended any racial hate but simple humour. Though I know people brainwashed on this warped ideology, that see offense in everything and because they are black and you white. It would be twisted by them to claim you were being racist.

That is the reality we live in now, brought about by Political correctness. Which is denying people being honest. So on that you are right.

The bolded part is a great point.

The fact society has become PC is a sad result of the fact racism/bigotry did and still does exist (to a point) in our society.

I love all forms of offensive humour - Ricky Gervais and Jimmy Carr build their skits on it. But we know absolutely that there is no hate or malice. The same is true for Eds and most on here when using certain words or making certain jokes.

The problem is 'some' who do, do do it with malice (note: 5***** for me for fitting three dos in a row lol). It's why I would never be offended by a gay joke from you or Eds; but if certain other posters, the ones who relentlessly oppose gay rights, made the same jokes, I'd think them as cunts for doing so. Because, ultimately, I'd know they were doing it out of spite.

Would I be offended? No. I'd just think they're cunts, and tell them as much

+1

So Eddie has kind of a point in making a stand against poor PC

The reality is she would need a lot more people to do this from all walks of life, to bring about a change

I also think the mollycoddling of society is also driving this, as are poor ideas being taught in Universities. The views of safe spaces, trigger warnings, no platforming etc. Are simple all factors leading to the fragility of our youth today. Where its setting up the youth of today, to become offended at basically everything.

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

I get your point on honesty, but your intent is not based on malice or hate

Now am not aware that using the word "black" is now deemed offensive. Though like Eizel, I do not really use a label of people to define who they are. Apart from political terms, like left and right I can and do cast on people and should also refrain from doing so. As it really does not serve any purpose in debate, when people have mixed political views. Its important to point out how extreme a political view is and if a collective of those people are causing problems in society, based on their extreme beliefs. This is where the lines become blurred, on how something is deemed offensive.

At the end of the day, you never used what can be classed an offensive term or used in an offensive way. I mean if you replaced the word black, with the n-word. Do you think you would have gotten the same reaction or something different Eddie? Now if a racist was honest and did this. What do you think the reaction would be?

The problem to me is the use of constant labels for people. These labels are simple nothing more than social contructs and its how poor and bad sterotypes form. I also think people are over sensitive in regards to things that are never offensive in the first place

You had no hateful intent here and were clearly being light humoured, but a PC driven society, does and clearly has made people fear using such terms as you did here. Through a fear of being labelled racist themselves.

The reality is this person saw the funny side and all it would take is a black person brainwashed on intersectionality to take offense and you could of actually of lost your job. Which would have been wrong, as you clearly never intended any racial hate but simple humour. Though I know people brainwashed on this warped ideology, that see offense in everything and because they are black and you white. It would be twisted by them to claim you were being racist.

That is the reality we live in now, brought about by Political correctness. Which is denying people being honest. So on that you are right.

The bolded part is a great point.

The fact society has become PC is a sad result of the fact racism/bigotry did and still does exist (to a point) in our society.

I love all forms of offensive humour - Ricky Gervais and Jimmy Carr build their skits on it. But we know absolutely that there is no hate or malice. The same is true for Eds and most on here when using certain words or making certain jokes.

The problem is 'some' who do, do do it with malice (note: 5***** for me for fitting three dos in a row lol). It's why I would never be offended by a gay joke from you or Eds; but if certain other posters, the ones who relentlessly oppose gay rights, made the same jokes, I'd think them as cunts for doing so. Because, ultimately, I'd know they were doing it out of spite.

Would I be offended? No. I'd just think they're cunts, and tell them as much

+1

So Eddie has kind of a point in making a stand against poor PC

The reality is she would need a lot more people to do this from all walsk of life, to bring about a change

I also think the mollycoddling of society is also driving this, as are poor ideas being taught in Universities. The views of safe spaces, trigger warnings, no platforming etc. Are simple all factors leading to the fragility of our youth today. Where its seeting up the youth of today, to become offended at basically everything.

I think Eds story is a good example of how things really aren't as bad as people make out. I certainly agree that some people, especially in some universities, are way over sensitive.

However, I think most people will outgrow this. It is amazing, no one in my family or among my friends is like this. I tend to think that universities are a place where people first begin to become really 'politically aware' and active. God knows there are few 'human rights' causes left in the UK to get worked up over (everyone almost has their rights and respect now) so they just 'have' to have something. And this is it.

I think most people find it nonsensical.

Eds story, to me, points out how out there in the world, most people could give AF, thankfully

And yet, at the same time, if someone came along and had a go at the man for being black, he'd likely be assaulted by everyone in there - things are doing all right, mostly

I agree that most things are okay today mate, but I am worried how the next generation will fair in the real world, espcially those educated in Universities. As many seem to be completely fragile.

Only time will tell I guess how they cope

Thor wrote:I agree that most things are okay today mate, but I am worried how the next generation will fair in the real world, espcially those educated in Universities. As many seem to be completely fragile.

Only time will tell I guess how they cope

Time will tell.

To go further with my optimism though, I have cousins who recently graduated and they are not like this. Also, when many get into the real world and the ones who succeed will be the ones not sucked into this 'whinging about everything' BS that goes on. Also, perhaps the ones so upset at the horror that are 'men' will avoid giving birth and not spread their silliness to following generations

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:I agree that most things are okay today mate, but I am worried how the next generation will fair in the real world, espcially those educated in Universities. As many seem to be completely fragile.

Only time will tell I guess how they cope

Time will tell.

To go further with my optimism though, I have cousins who recently graduated and they are not like this. Also, when many get into the real world and the ones who succeed will be the ones not sucked into this 'whinging about everything' BS that goes on. Also, perhaps the ones so upset at the horror that are 'men' will avoid giving birth and not spread their silliness to following generations

Congratulations to your cousins

I think there is many students not like this, but a substancial that are like this.

I seriously think they will struggle in the work place, break down at the slightest thing said, screaming discrimination.
Society is steering in the direction of people walking on egg shells all the time. Its why I get in part what eddie is saying.

lol your last part made me laugh

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

so eddie the problem is not all 'blacks' eat hot foods even as their various racial groups  (Aboriginals and Ethiopians don't, for example)

the PC way to say the same thing is
“Dude, you’re Jamaican! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

Although even so, it's still a little un-PC but a is fairly accurate and in-offensive stereotype so passable
and unlike Jamie Oliver you would be demonstrating 'cultural knowledge' around 'Jerk Spice' so it becomes fairly acceptable in context.

the advice I give is that being more accurate is better, like if You know(or pretty sure) they're from Pakistan or Jamaica etc then use that instead of Black. another example is using Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese etc instead of just Asian. Put in the effort to 'acknowledge the person' with their accurate 'ethnicity'

P.S. to me 'blacks' means African Americans, every other group has a real ethnic name that is derived from more than just their skin colour

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:I agree that most things are okay today mate, but I am worried how the next generation will fair in the real world, espcially those educated in Universities. As many seem to be completely fragile.

Only time will tell I guess how they cope

Time will tell.

To go further with my optimism though, I have cousins who recently graduated and they are not like this. Also, when many get into the real world and the ones who succeed will be the ones not sucked into this 'whinging about everything' BS that goes on. Also, perhaps the ones so upset at the horror that are 'men' will avoid giving birth and not spread their silliness to following generations

Congratulations to your cousins

I think there is many students not like this, but a substancial that are like this.

I seriously think they will struggle in the work place, break down at the slightest thing said, screaming discrimination.
Society is steering in the direction of people walking on egg shells all the time. Its why I get in part what eddie is saying.

lol your last part made me laugh

I had the experience of an Australian teacher who started with us, early-20s. We observed our teachers every month, but more if they were new it would be more.

She complained she felt she was being pressured and treated differently. She was shit, as it goes. And when we suggested she spent a bit more time planning lessons (again, not unusual at all for a new teacher) she complained again that the other teachers (with more experience) were not expected to do the same.

She left after 2 months. Pathetic.

So sadly I have first hand experience of the softness of some young people today. Fortunately she was not typical

veya_victaous wrote:

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

so eddie the problem is not all 'blacks' eat hot foods even as their various racial groups  (Aboriginals and Ethiopians don't, for example)

the PC way to say the same thing is
“Dude, you’re Jamaican! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

Sorry veya, the PC way would either say West Indian or Caribbean, as he could come from St Lucia or many of the other indepentent Islands in the West Indies. Though even then some from the PC brigade would howl outrage, saying the person is British and ethnically West Indian.

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

Congratulations to your cousins

I think there is many students not like this, but a substancial that are like this.

I seriously think they will struggle in the work place, break down at the slightest thing said, screaming discrimination.
Society is steering in the direction of people walking on egg shells all the time. Its why I get in part what eddie is saying.

lol your last part made me laugh

I had the experience of an Australian teacher who started with us, early-20s. We observed our teachers every month, but more if they were new it would be more.

She complained she felt she was being pressured and treated differently. She was shit, as it goes. And when we suggested she spent a bit more time planning lessons (again, not unusual at all for a new teacher) she complained again that the other teachers (with more experience) were not expected to do the same.

She left after 2 months. Pathetic.

So sadly I have first hand experience of the softness of some young people today. Fortunately she was not typical

wow, that was pathetic by her

So you understand my concerns mate?

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

Congratulations to your cousins

I think there is many students not like this, but a substancial that are like this.

I seriously think they will struggle in the work place, break down at the slightest thing said, screaming discrimination.
Society is steering in the direction of people walking on egg shells all the time. Its why I get in part what eddie is saying.

lol your last part made me laugh

I had the experience of an Australian teacher who started with us, early-20s. We observed our teachers every month, but more if they were new it would be more.

She complained she felt she was being pressured and treated differently. She was shit, as it goes. And when we suggested she spent a bit more time planning lessons (again, not unusual at all for a new teacher) she complained again that the other teachers (with more experience) were not expected to do the same.

She left after 2 months. Pathetic.

So sadly I have first hand experience of the softness of some young people today. Fortunately she was not typical

wow, that was pathetic by her

So you understand my concerns mate?

I really do. But comparing her to some of the other younger teachers, it's easy to see which will do well in life

Thor wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

so eddie the problem is not all 'blacks' eat hot foods even as their various racial groups  (Aboriginals and Ethiopians don't, for example)

the PC way to say the same thing is
“Dude, you’re Jamaican! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

Sorry veya, the PC way would either say West Indian or Caribbean, as he could come from St Lucia or many of the other indepentent Islands in the West Indies. Though even then some from the PC brigade would howl outrage, saying the person is British and ethnically West Indian.

To be honest we could both be wrong and that he is ethnically African, from say Nigeria, Kenya etc. So Eddie will have to let us know

So in fact Eddie took the saftest option of not possible ending up being wrong here, by using the term black

Thor wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

so eddie the problem is not all 'blacks' eat hot foods even as their various racial groups  (Aboriginals and Ethiopians don't, for example)

the PC way to say the same thing is
“Dude, you’re Jamaican! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

Sorry veya, the PC way would either say West Indian or Caribbean, as he could come from St Lucia or many of the other indepentent Islands in the West Indies. Though even then some from the PC brigade would howl outrage, saying the person is British and ethnically West Indian.

It would be based on your ability to tell their ethnicity and you are probably right it would be safer to say West Indian or Caribbean.
They're extremely rare down here so I don't know how difficult they are to tell apart, for a white person I am very skilled at picking Asian races correctly and pretty good with the major African immigrant groups (Ethiopian and Sudanese)

if they are a British citizen then they are British as well. that phrasing is correct as a formal description "British and ethnically West Indian" but is unreasonable to expect in passing social banter.

You would be hard pressed with West Indian. In fact one of my old boses, is white and from St Lucia and can do the best west Indian accent I have ever heard lol, even though he has a refined English accent. I suppose people from the West Indies, would know best how to tell the difference between islanders. 

I am good at telling the difference with people from South Africa and Zimbabwe, due to their accents

So I agree that some ethnic groups are easy to spot based on looks alone. It will also depend much on what interaction with different groups of people, that people have. Those most travelled will thus tend to be good. As well as those who live amongst a muticultural group.

Some are less easy to define mind. 

You will laugh, but I have often been mistaken as Australian, by other Australians over here, due to my accent. Which has a twang of South London, though not cockney itself. I often get asked where about I am from back home, by an Australian and look back with a wierd look on my face and laugh. I certainly do not think I sound Australian lol. 

I guess that shows the similarities between accents over here, that helped form the Australian accent.

So its easy for people to misread where someone is from. 

I suppose Eddie has chosen the one route, you are not likely to be wrong over defining someone through label.

Catch you later

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

Ooooh, this is interesting. I will read the other replies later when I have time.
In answer to the basic question though is....I dont know .

This may sound stupid but I dont always notice a persons colour till something comes up in conversation, so maybe the fact he was black and his palate might be more used to spicy food than most white people, that wouldn't have come into my head.

I have bee known to compare my skin colour to my half black members of family...usually pointing out I am darker (in summer anyway) I dont consider that racist....and neither do they.

I think racism is more what people imply rather than what they say.....I doubt you have a racist bone in your body so I dont see how anyone could see it that way.

Syl wrote:

eddie wrote:So I work as a customer care manager at a restaurant. Let me tell you a story:

We sell a very spicy dish which contains a hot pepper jerk sauce. An old black man ordered the dish and five minutes later called me over to ask for some water.
He was gasping and saying “That sauce is hot!”

I replied jokingly, “Dude, you’re black! Don’t you eat this kind of stuff at home? It’s jerk sauce!”

He laughed, grabbed my arm and said “Oh yes we do but this sauce is Hot hot!”

I got him some water and he carried on joking with me and said a warm goodbye when he left.


This is how I communicate. I say what I see and I have never ever made anyone feel bad. He was black, he eats hot food and he KNEW, HE KNEW, that I wasn’t a racist simply because I mentioned he was black.


My question is this: Would  any of you have mentioned his colour? How would you have reacted? Was mentioning his colour more or less racist than the “PC world” would allow?

Ooooh, this is interesting. I will read the other replies later when I have time.
In answer to the basic question though is....I dont know .

This may sound stupid but I dont always notice a persons colour till something comes up in conversation, so maybe the fact he was black and his palate might be more used to spicy food than most white people, that  wouldn't have come into my head.

I have bee known to compare my skin colour to my half black members of family...usually pointing out I am darker (in summer anyway) I dont consider that racist....and neither do they.

I think racism is more what people imply rather than what they say.....I doubt you have a racist bone in your body so I dont see how anyone could see it that way.

that really doesn't, and i'm often the same.

my son asked me who out of the x factor auditions has stuck in my mind the most. i mentioned sean miley moore and son said oh the black guy who sang freddie mercury? oh no he wasn't black i said, he was white but after some argument he pulled him up on youtube and he is at least mixed race. I also argued that josh daniels wasn't black




i also tan easily and like you if a black or asian remarks on ''how brown i am'' i would normally hold out my arm against theirs to see what contrast

people dont give a stuff in my world

gelico wrote:

Syl wrote:

Ooooh, this is interesting. I will read the other replies later when I have time.
In answer to the basic question though is....I dont know .

This may sound stupid but I dont always notice a persons colour till something comes up in conversation, so maybe the fact he was black and his palate might be more used to spicy food than most white people, that  wouldn't have come into my head.

I have bee known to compare my skin colour to my half black members of family...usually pointing out I am darker (in summer anyway) I dont consider that racist....and neither do they.

I think racism is more what people imply rather than what they say.....I doubt you have a racist bone in your body so I dont see how anyone could see it that way.

that really doesn't, and i'm often the same.

my son asked me who out of the x factor auditions has stuck in my mind the most.  i mentioned sean miley moore and son said oh the black guy who sang freddie mercury?  oh no he wasn't black i said, he was white but after some argument he pulled him up on youtube and he is at least mixed race.  I also argued that josh daniels wasn't black




i also tan easily and like you if a black or asian remarks on ''how brown i am''  i would normally hold out my arm against theirs to see what contrast

people dont give a stuff in my world

I bet loads of people are the same as us Gels.

When I worked someone left something behind once, I said I think I know who it belongs to, she had a red coat on...blank looks...she was sat over there..blank looks...she was drinking half a lager....blank ....then someone chipped in..'was she black?'....oh yes....she was black.

I think if you can't bring up someone's race when appropriate, it's like you're saying that their race is something not to be mentioned, like it's shameful or something.

If I saw a Mexican guy having a similar reaction to hot food, I'm sure I'd come out with something like, "Hey man, are you sure you're Mexican?" And if he was insulted, I'd say I didn't mean it as an insult and probably have nothing more to do with the oversensitive little prick.

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:I think if you can't bring up someone's race when  appropriate, it's like you're  saying that their race is  something not to be mentioned, like it's  shameful or something.

If I saw  a Mexican guy having a similar reaction to hot food, I'm  sure I'd come  out with something like, "Hey man, are  you sure you're Mexican?" And  if he was insulted, I'd say I didn't mean it as an insult and probably have nothing more  to do with the oversensitive  little prick.

But that is the problem, in the first place. In that these races are not biological and why then are we defining people by the colour of their skin?

Do we use such reasoning with eye colour, hair colour? Does someone with ginger hair make them a ginger race?

Personally I get all Eddies points, but to me said race labels, are what enables racism in  the very first place. In that they seek to divide society, through skin colour, when we never do wthis with eye or hair colour. So maybe if we stopped defining people through such labels. We would help eradicate racism itself.

Now I found how eddie comunicated with the Black man, a good way of braking the ice and making two people laugh, but that is how society has geared people to look at each other. When we are all uniquely different.

Like some of the ladies have said, the skin colour does not even enter my mind when talking to people, as why would it? I mean certainly as Veya and myself were discussing that people come from diffierent cultures from different ethnic groups. Where in this case it could be one of a number, yet have been collectivelly defined as black. Many black cultures are also different based on the nation/ethnic group they come from they descend from

Its never an insult to define people by the colour of ther skin, in a light humoureous way. I just fail to see why we even use them to define people. There is only one real and valid reason we do. Based around data and laws around racism itself. Thus to me to continue such social constructs as black and white to define people, is what continues to divide people based on a group collective.

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:I think if you can't bring up someone's race when  appropriate, it's like you're  saying that their race is  something not to be mentioned, like it's  shameful or something.

If I saw  a Mexican guy having a similar reaction to hot food, I'm  sure I'd come  out with something like, "Hey man, are  you sure you're Mexican?" And  if he was insulted, I'd say I didn't mean it as an insult and probably have nothing more  to do with the oversensitive  little prick.

Lol....like if someone has a huge nose for Gods sake dont bring noses into the conversation.

I agree....being black, white or whatever colour  should never be the elephant in the room...it's crazy.

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:I think if you can't bring up someone's race when  appropriate, it's like you're  saying that their race is  something not to be mentioned, like it's  shameful or something.

If I saw  a Mexican guy having a similar reaction to hot food, I'm  sure I'd come  out with something like, "Hey man, are  you sure you're Mexican?" And  if he was insulted, I'd say I didn't mean it as an insult and probably have nothing more  to do with the oversensitive  little prick.

And if you saw a black dude that wouldn't eat watermelon? 

I think we all do that with people we know, but perfect strangers are different.  

Bringing up race is fine because it's a fact. Stereotypes have a little basis in fact but can be wildly inaccurate and using them will be deemed offensive to certain people.  

Speaking of restaurants, what would happen if black person heard folks using the service industry  term for them which is "Canadian"?

Maddog wrote:

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:I think if you can't bring up someone's race when  appropriate, it's like you're  saying that their race is  something not to be mentioned, like it's  shameful or something.

If I saw  a Mexican guy having a similar reaction to hot food, I'm  sure I'd come  out with something like, "Hey man, are  you sure you're Mexican?" And  if he was insulted, I'd say I didn't mean it as an insult and probably have nothing more  to do with the oversensitive  little prick.

And if you saw a black dude that wouldn't eat watermelon? 

I think we all do that with people we know, but perfect strangers are different.  

Bringing up race is fine because it's a fact. Stereotypes have a little basis in fact but can be wildly inaccurate and using them will be deemed offensive to certain people.  

Speaking of restaurants, what would happen if black person heard folks using the service industry  term for them which is "Canadian"?

The only race is the human race. There are no sub races within humans

You certainly have different ethnic groups, which is based around culture, language, religion, geography etc

Races in humans are social constructs and are not biological

Thor wrote:

Maddog wrote:
And if you saw a black dude that wouldn't eat watermelon? 

I think we all do that with people we know, but perfect strangers are different.  

Bringing up race is fine because it's a fact. Stereotypes have a little basis in fact but can be wildly inaccurate and using them will be deemed offensive to certain people.  

Speaking of restaurants, what would happen if black person heard folks using the service industry  term for them which is "Canadian"?

The only race is the human race. There are no sub races within humans

You certainly have different ethnic groups, which is based around culture, language, religion, geography etc

Races in humans are social constructs and are not biological

It's a fact in our society. That's why we ask it on most government forms.  My race is white.  

We are all the same species.  

I think.  

Maddog wrote:

Thor wrote:


The only race is the human race. There are no sub races within humans

You certainly have different ethnic groups, which is based around culture, language, religion, geography etc

Races in humans are social constructs and are not biological

It's a fact in our society. That's why we ask it on most government forms.  My race is white.  

We are all the same species.  

I think.  

Your race is human, your social construct racial classifcation is white

Hence society created such constructs

That does not make them a biological fact

It makes them a concept

You do understand the difference?

Anyway, let science explain for you

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

Anyway I dont want to detract from the point Eddie is making

Lates dude

Thor wrote:

Maddog wrote:

It's a fact in our society. That's why we ask it on most government forms.  My race is white.  

We are all the same species.  

I think.  

Your race is human, your social construct racial classifcation is white

Hence society created such constructs

That does not make them a biological fact

It makes them a concept

You do understand the difference?

Anyway, let science explain for you

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

Anyway I dont want to detract from the point Eddie is making

Lates dude

I'm not talking about biology.  

I am talking about society.  

We dont live in laboratory. 

We live in a place where my race is considered white.  

I live in a world where terms like racial and racist exist.

Maddog wrote:

Thor wrote:


Your race is human, your social construct racial classifcation is white

Hence society created such constructs

That does not make them a biological fact

It makes them a concept

You do understand the difference?

Anyway, let science explain for you

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

Anyway I dont want to detract from the point Eddie is making

Lates dude

I'm not talking about biology.  

I am talking about society.  

We dont live in laboratory. 

We live in a place where my race is considered white.  

I live in a world where terms like racial and racist exist.

Hence the pseudo nonesense that defines societies

Its not based on facts, its based on pseudo science

As there is no such thing biologically as a white race

Yet we use such pseudo science to define people

Racism exists because of this pseudo science

Racism was created through pseudo racist science

Like I said, without such racial classifcations, how could you argue that someone is racially inferior, when we are all the same race?

Is the point sinking in yet?

I do not define myself by my skin colour. It has no relevance to me.
I am defined by the fact I am a British national with Maltese/Sicillian and Irish ancestry and male

Thor wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I'm not talking about biology.  

I am talking about society.  

We dont live in laboratory. 

We live in a place where my race is considered white.  

I live in a world where terms like racial and racist exist.

Hence the pseudo nonesense that defines societies

Its not based on facts, its based on pseudo science

As there is no such thing biologically as a white race

Yet we use such pseudo science to define people

Racism exists because of this pseudo science

Racism was created through pseudo racist science

Like I said, without such racial classifcations, how could you argue that someone is racially inferior, when we are all the same race?

Is the point sinking in yet

I m not defined by my skin colour, I am defined by the fact I am British with Maltese/Sicillian and Irish ancestry

I get your point. 

Now, in the real world my race is white. Barack Obama is black. And Elizabeth Warren thought she was an American Indian.

Maddog wrote:

Thor wrote:


Hence the pseudo nonesense that defines societies

Its not based on facts, its based on pseudo science

As there is no such thing biologically as a white race

Yet we use such pseudo science to define people

Racism exists because of this pseudo science

Racism was created through pseudo racist science

Like I said, without such racial classifcations, how could you argue that someone is racially inferior, when we are all the same race?

Is the point sinking in yet

I m not defined by my skin colour, I am defined by the fact I am British with Maltese/Sicillian and Irish ancestry

I get your point. 

Now, in the real world my race is white. Barack Obama is black. And Elizabeth Warren thought she was an American Indian.

You mean the world created for you, by that society. As that is what you have been taught

Do you always conform to the world around you like a sheep mate?

In the real world, your race is human, as that has a scientific bases

Now, I am going to leave this, as I do not want this to detract

Laters dude, have things to do

Thor wrote:Now, I am going to leave this, as I do not want this to detract

Laters dude, have things to do

See ya fellow human.

I don't see what's honest about it. A black person doesn't necessarily eat that stuff. It was a joke, which is nothing to do with honesty.

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't see what's honest about it. A black person doesn't necessarily eat that stuff. It was a joke, which is nothing to do with honesty.

Because it was the fact that I don’t stop myself from communicating with people exactly how I feel I can.
I’m not afraid to step outside of the “safe circle” of communication.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't see what's honest about it. A black person doesn't necessarily eat that stuff. It was a joke, which is nothing to do with honesty.

Because it was the fact that I don’t stop myself from communicating with people exactly how I feel I can.
I’m not afraid to step outside of the “safe circle” of communication.

if said black person had turned round and said, ''no, actually, i'm not used to this food and i don't appreciate you stereotyping me and i find it quite offensive that you would make assumptions about me based on the fact that i'm black'' what would your response to that be?

gelico wrote:

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't see what's honest about it. A black person doesn't necessarily eat that stuff. It was a joke, which is nothing to do with honesty.

Because it was the fact that I don’t stop myself from communicating with people exactly how I feel I can.
I’m not afraid to step outside of the “safe circle” of communication.

if said black person had turned round and said, ''no, actually, i'm not used to this food and i don't appreciate you stereotyping me and i find it quite offensive that you would make assumptions about me based on the fact that i'm black''  what would your response to that be?

“Really? Wow. I dated and lived with black guys for years and they never got offended. Sorry you felt offended. Not too sure why. Would you like some water for your taste buds?”

eddie wrote:

gelico wrote:


if said black person had turned round and said, ''no, actually, i'm not used to this food and i don't appreciate you stereotyping me and i find it quite offensive that you would make assumptions about me based on the fact that i'm black''  what would your response to that be?

“Really? Wow. I dated and lived with black guys for years and they never got offended. Sorry you felt offended. Not too sure why. Would you like some water for your taste buds?”

That's because they knew you.

I dated a Muslim girl. What I could say to her, and a random Muslim I met in public were worlds apart.

And for the record, that "I dated (fill in the blank), won't get you off the hook if someone is offended by a stereotype.

And you also have to appreciate it’s my smile and my manner and the fact I touch people, my hand on their arm, my attentiveness when they walk through the door....

It’s an innate sense of people. It’s why I was chosen for the position I’m in.