Killed by benefits cuts: Starving soldier died 'as result of Iain Duncan Smith's welfare reform'

by Irn Bru Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:52 pm

Diabetic David Clapson, 59, died with just £3.44 left in his account after his Jobseeker’s Allowance was axed because he missed an appointment

A diabetic ex-soldier died starving and skint after officials axed his benefits.

David Clapson, 59, was stripped of the cash after missing an appointment under harsh Coalition reforms.

He died in Stevenage, Herts, with just £3.44 left in his account.

David once faced death on a daily basis as he served his country loyally in the terror hell of Northern Ireland.

And when he left the Army he went straight into the workplace with BT before becoming a full-time carer for his sick mother.

After she went into a home, diabetic David turned to the state for help while he looked for work.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killed-benefits-cuts-starving-soldier-3923771#ixzz38nKBoGfA

What an absolutely shocking end to the life of a young man who served his country.

He didn't deserve that - he really didn't deserve that.

Grrrrrrrrr

by Guest Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:59 pm

The Mirror is printing half a story as usual.

The fact is that if someone on jobseekers misses an appointment their benefits are only sanctioned until they do attend with it being extended only for those who have done it before. That is unless there is a good reason for missing the appointment in which case no sanctions are applied and all monies backdated.

So why did he miss the appointment? Why did he not reschedule an appointment as soon as his money stopped?

I mean yes this guy is salt of the earth innocent - but what about those who are wasters and who did used to miss appointments left right and centre - how are the job centre staff supposed to know who can be let off missing appointments and who should be sanctioned for it?

by Irn Bru Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:06 pm

sphinx wrote:The Mirror is printing half a story as usual.

The fact is that if someone on jobseekers misses an appointment their benefits are only sanctioned until they do attend with it being extended only for those who have done it before. That is unless there is a good reason for missing the appointment in which case no sanctions are applied and all monies backdated.

So why did he miss the appointment? Why did he not reschedule an appointment as soon as his money stopped?

I mean yes this guy is salt of the earth innocent - but what about those who are wasters and who did used to miss appointments left right and centre - how are the job centre staff supposed to know who can be let off missing appointments and who should be sanctioned for it?

Have you got a link to the rules that confirms what you say happens when an appointment is missed?

by Guest Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:14 pm

sphinx wrote:The Mirror is printing half a story as usual.

The fact is that if someone on jobseekers misses an appointment their benefits are only sanctioned until they do attend with it being extended only for those who have done it before. That is unless there is a good reason for missing the appointment in which case no sanctions are applied and all monies backdated.

The problem with THAT is...."good reason" depends on the decision of some half witted blond bimbo schoolgirl, who has NO idea of life and is under pressure from "those above" to sanction as many as possible...Most of these people that inhabit jobcenters and such have no morals and a jumped up perception of their own importance, and unless you are experienced in dealing with that sort they can make life hell for someone....Beleive me..I know...I have "dealt with" one or two on behalf of friends and family....they are sooo easy to tie in knots..provided you know the rules, which of course requires hard study, since they wish the public to NOT know the rules.....(oh and they are liars too....)

like the disgusting creatures that inhabited the child support agency in its early years ...they are entirely without honour....)

So why did he miss the appointment? Why did he not reschedule an appointment as soon as his money stopped?

I mean yes this guy is salt of the earth innocent - but what about those who are wasters and who did used to miss appointments left right and centre - how are the job centre staff supposed to know who can be let off missing appointments and who should be sanctioned for it?

by Raggamuffin Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:19 pm

He died because he didn't take his insulin. He hadn't been a soldier for years.

Still, it's very sad. One wonders why his sister didn't notice anything was wrong.

by Guest Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:29 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
sphinx wrote:The Mirror is printing half a story as usual.

The fact is that if someone on jobseekers misses an appointment their benefits are only sanctioned until they do attend with it being extended only for those who have done it before. That is unless there is a good reason for missing the appointment in which case no sanctions are applied and all monies backdated.

The problem with THAT is...."good reason" depends on the decision of some half witted blond bimbo schoolgirl, who has NO idea of life and is under pressure from "those above" to sanction as many as possible...Most of these people that inhabit jobcenters and such have no morals and a jumped up perception of their own importance, and unless you are experienced in dealing with that sort they can make life hell for someone....Beleive me..I know...I have "dealt with" one or two on behalf of friends and family....they are sooo easy to tie in knots..provided you know the rules, which of course requires hard study, since they wish the public to NOT know the rules.....(oh and they are liars too....)

like the disgusting creatures that inhabited the child support agency in its early years ...they are entirely without honour....)

So why did he miss the appointment? Why did he not reschedule an appointment as soon as his money stopped?

I mean yes this guy is salt of the earth innocent - but what about those who are wasters and who did used to miss appointments left right and centre - how are the job centre staff supposed to know who can be let off missing appointments and who should be sanctioned for it?

You have much experience of Job centre staff do you? Or is it just one or two over the phone?

That assessment you highlighted is bloody insulting to a group of staff who I have watched lean over backwards to be fair and open minded and who have gone out of their way to make sure people dont suffer including breaking rules when they recognize that the fault is with the system.

Sure there are bad apples among job centre staff - but guess what? There are real bad apples among those the job centre staff have to deal with day after day as well.

In my experience they keep the assholes for the phone offices and those are the ones who never meet a "client" face to face - and yeah they do cock up. However the staff on the ground, in the offices where people actually sign on are a different kettle of fish. The staff at the offices will do their best to see nobody suffers who doesn't deserve it. If some ones money is stopped and they are genuine if they go down to their signing on office and see their personal advisor that advisor will do their damnedest to sort it out. I know I have been there and received incredible help.

Again I say that there are parts of this story missing.

by moll Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:30 am

sphinx wrote:The Mirror is printing half a story as usual.

The fact is that if someone on jobseekers misses an appointment their benefits are only sanctioned until they do attend with it being extended only for those who have done it before. That is unless there is a good reason for missing the appointment in which case no sanctions are applied and all monies backdated.

So why did he miss the appointment? Why did he not reschedule an appointment as soon as his money stopped?

I mean yes this guy is salt of the earth innocent - but what about those who are wasters and who did used to miss appointments left right and centre - how are the job centre staff supposed to know who can be let off missing appointments and who should be sanctioned for it?

The wasters know every detail of how the benefits system works, it amazes me that young people leave school and do not work but then again if they get sanctioned they go out thieving to boost their income. Mad

by Irn Bru Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:46 am

sphinx wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:
sphinx wrote:The Mirror is printing half a story as usual.

The fact is that if someone on jobseekers misses an appointment their benefits are only sanctioned until they do attend with it being extended only for those who have done it before. That is unless there is a good reason for missing the appointment in which case no sanctions are applied and all monies backdated.

The problem with THAT is...."good reason" depends on the decision of some half witted blond bimbo schoolgirl, who has NO idea of life and is under pressure from "those above" to sanction as many as possible...Most of these people that inhabit jobcenters and such have no morals and a jumped up perception of their own importance, and unless you are experienced in dealing with that sort they can make life hell for someone....Beleive me..I know...I have "dealt with" one or two on behalf of friends and family....they are sooo easy to tie in knots..provided you know the rules, which of course requires hard study, since they wish the public to NOT know the rules.....(oh and they are liars too....)

like the disgusting creatures that inhabited the child support agency in its early years ...they are entirely without honour....)

So why did he miss the appointment? Why did he not reschedule an appointment as soon as his money stopped?

I mean yes this guy is salt of the earth innocent - but what about those who are wasters and who did used to miss appointments left right and centre - how are the job centre staff supposed to know who can be let off missing appointments and who should be sanctioned for it?

You have much experience of Job centre staff do you? Or is it just one or two over the phone?

That assessment you highlighted is bloody insulting to a group of staff who I have watched lean over backwards to be fair and open minded and who have gone out of their way to make sure people dont suffer including breaking rules when they recognize that the fault is with the system.

Sure there are bad apples among job centre staff - but guess what? There are real bad apples among those the job centre staff have to deal with day after day as well.

In my experience they keep the assholes for the phone offices and those are the ones who never meet a "client" face to face - and yeah they do cock up. However the staff on the ground, in the offices where people actually sign on are a different kettle of fish. The staff at the offices will do their best to see nobody suffers who doesn't deserve it. If some ones money is stopped and they are genuine if they go down to their signing on office and see their personal advisor that advisor will do their damnedest to sort it out. I know I have been there and received incredible help.

Again I say that there are parts of this story missing.

Are the claims that DWP staff have been set targets false then? Some people claim that they turn up to sign on and after having done so they are told to come back again later that day for an interview on their progress. I know for a fact that that part is true.

by Lone Wolf Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:54 am

moll wrote:
sphinx wrote:
The Mirror is printing half a story as usual.

The fact is that if someone on jobseekers misses an appointment their benefits are only sanctioned until they do attend with it being extended only for those who have done it before. That is unless there is a good reason for missing the appointment in which case no sanctions are applied and all monies backdated.

So why did he miss the appointment? Why did he not reschedule an appointment as soon as his money stopped?

I mean yes this guy is salt of the earth innocent - but what about those who are wasters and who did used to miss appointments left right and centre - how are the job centre staff supposed to know who can be let off missing appointments and who should be sanctioned for it?

The wasters know every detail of how the benefits system works, it amazes me that young people leave school and do not work but then again if they get sanctioned they go out thieving to boost their income.

AND your "wasters" also make up only around 2% of unemployment and disability recipients...

DESPITE the grossly inflated fantasies and scapegoating so beloved and blindly accepted by the DailyMail/Daily Telegraph/Faux News UKIP-voting crowds..

by Guest Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:11 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
sphinx wrote:

You have much experience of Job centre staff do you? Or is it just one or two over the phone?

That assessment you highlighted is bloody insulting to a group of staff who I have watched lean over backwards to be fair and open minded and who have gone out of their way to make sure people dont suffer including breaking rules when they recognize that the fault is with the system.

Sure there are bad apples among job centre staff - but guess what? There are real bad apples among those the job centre staff have to deal with day after day as well.

In my experience they keep the assholes for the phone offices and those are the ones who never meet a "client" face to face - and yeah they do cock up. However the staff on the ground, in the offices where people actually sign on are a different kettle of fish. The staff at the offices will do their best to see nobody suffers who doesn't deserve it. If some ones money is stopped and they are genuine if they go down to their signing on office and see their personal advisor that advisor will do their damnedest to sort it out. I know I have been there and received incredible help.

Again I say that there are parts of this story missing.

Are the claims that DWP staff have been set targets false then? Some people claim that they turn up to sign on and after having done so they are told to come back again later that day for an interview on their progress. I know for a fact that that part is true.

No I am not saying the setting of targets is false - I am saying front line staff disagree with the targets and do what they can to get around them - and the further interview the same day is one way because it means people do know about the "spot check interviews" because they are told in person a couple of hours before (no letters lost in the post or texts lost in cyberspace) and dont miss them.

If a known diabetic misses a signing on appointment and immediately phones their advisor to explain why that advisor will do everything in their power to make sure sanctions are not applied.

There is half the story missing - which is my original point.

by Guest Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:18 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
moll wrote:

The wasters know every detail of how the benefits system works, it amazes me that young people leave school and do not work but then again if they get sanctioned they go out thieving to boost their income.

AND your "wasters" also make up only around 2% of unemployment and disability recipients...

DESPITE the grossly inflated fantasies and scapegoating so beloved and blindly accepted by the DailyMail/Daily Telegraph/Faux News UKIP-voting crowds..

No the 2% figure applies to those making full out fraudulent claims - the working while claiming, the live in partner when declared to be single etc.

There is no figure for the number of wasters - those who are too lazy to work full stop and who work the benefits system so they do not have to. Technically these people are not fraudulent because they are indeed out of work and it is impossible to measure how many are out of work because they want to be rather than because they really cannot find work.
A favourite trick of these wasters is to miss signing on because they are "at a job interview" which they provide full evidence for but unfortunately they do not get the job(s) they interviewed for (Mrs smith around the corner decides actually she cannot afford to pay a cleaner/gardener - and if the interview for the job was held at Starbucks in the middle of a shopping trip well that does not show up on paper now does it). They cannot be sanctioned because having a job interview is a good reason for not signing on - and their having the interview "proves" they are actively seeking work. That is called working the system.

by nicko Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:25 pm

Lone wolf. if you can't have a go at some poster on here you'll have a rant about our news papers! do you have all the brit papers delivered then?if you don't, shut your cakehole,you are talking bollocks.

by Original Quill Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:47 pm

nicko wrote:Lone wolf. if you can't have a go at some poster on here you'll have a rant about our news papers! do you have all the brit papers delivered then?if you don't, shut your cakehole,you are talking bollocks.

Let's stay with the topic.

The benefits people vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, depending on the affluence of the place. I know in some counties here they are told to act as gatekeepers...essentially to keep claimants out. The very next county bends over backwards to be helpful. The difference is that in wealthy counties they are instructed to frustrate the whole business of benefits distribution, where in others they are instructed to promote it.

by Andy Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:28 pm

If there is a God, he would strike down IDS with a heart attack.
Which in itself would be a miracle for a man with no heart.

by nicko Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:40 pm

That would be nice for his Wife and kids. prat!

by Andy Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:44 pm

So no thoughts on the families of the scores of suicide victims who couldn't go on because of decisions instigated by IDS. The man who put N into Cu*ts.

by nicko Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:22 pm

There was another dick head on here who wished people dead, the name Phill comes to mind, are you going to be like Phill?

by Raggamuffin Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:34 pm

HA did go too far. This man did not take his insulin, so it can't really be blamed on anyone else.

by Fred Moletrousers Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:43 pm

Handy Andy wrote:So no thoughts on the families of the scores of suicide victims who couldn't go on because of decisions instigated by IDS. The man who put N into Cu*ts.

Perhaps, Andy, had the previous administration not allowed the welfare benefits budget to run completely out of control (tripled in the lifetime of the Labour government) it might have been more possible for those who deserved rather than demanded state support to have received it.

by Fred Moletrousers Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:46 pm

Irn Bru wrote:Diabetic David Clapson, 59, died with just £3.44 left in his account after his Jobseeker’s Allowance was axed because he missed an appointment

A diabetic ex-soldier died starving and skint after officials axed his benefits.

David Clapson, 59, was stripped of the cash after missing an appointment under harsh Coalition reforms.

He died in Stevenage, Herts, with just £3.44 left in his account.

David once faced death on a daily basis as he served his country loyally in the terror hell of Northern Ireland.

And when he left the Army he went straight into the workplace with BT before becoming a full-time carer for his sick mother.

After she went into a home, diabetic David turned to the state for help while he looked for work.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killed-benefits-cuts-starving-soldier-3923771#ixzz38nKBoGfA

What an absolutely shocking end to the life of a young man who served his country.

He didn't deserve that - he really didn't deserve that.

Grrrrrrrrr

So what is published in the rabidly Left wing Daily Mirror is wisdom and truth, whereas what is published in the rabidly Right wing Daily Mail is a pack of lies?

Yeah, right.........

by Fred Moletrousers Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:49 pm

nicko wrote:There was another dick head on here who wished people dead, the name Phill comes to mind, are you going to be like Phill?

Since Phil found the death of my wife a source of amusement, I sincerely hope not. But knowing and respecting Andy (while disagreeing with his political views) I am absolutely confident that it is most certainly not the case.

by Andy Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:56 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
nicko wrote:There was another dick head on here who wished people dead, the name Phill comes to mind, are you going to be like Phill?

Since Phil found the death of my wife a source of amusement, I sincerely hope not. But knowing and respecting Andy (while disagreeing with his political views) I am absolutely confident that it is most certainly not the case.

I didn't wish IDS dead, I suggested IF there was a God - (I am agnostic, so have no real belief of one) he would strike him down to the extent that he would be forced to endure the catastrophe that the NHS is becoming during his watch, and face the benefit cuts that is happening during that same watch.
It isn't good - as I have very first hand experience with my mother in law - old , senile, with every illness going -Parkinsons, Lewy Body. Dementia , arthritis and cancer , and my better half and I are having to pay £100 per week for her nursing home care.

I respect you too M'lord - but this shambles of an uncaring government have a lot to answer for.
Hopefully they will see the anger at the ballot box.

by Irn Bru Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:16 am

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Handy Andy wrote:So no thoughts on the families of the scores of suicide victims who couldn't go on because of decisions instigated by IDS. The man who put N into Cu*ts.

Perhaps, Andy, had the previous administration not allowed the welfare benefits budget to run completely out of control (tripled in the lifetime of the Labour government) it might have been more possible for those who deserved rather than demanded state support to have received it.

Welfare benefits paid out under Labour were lower than the welfare benefits paid out under the Tories. I suppose a fair chunk of the money paid out in welfare payments under the Tories was due to the near 3.5 million unemployed they created. A price worth paying apparently.

by Andy Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:24 am

Who will ever forget that poster of a huge queue of people and that vile statement "Britain isn't working", only to be followed by unemployment soaring under the tories.
It is what the Conservatives do, and still are.
There might be more people physically working nowadays, but how many are on minimum wages or zero hours contracts when they were previously in full time jobs?

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:42 am

Handy Andy wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Since Phil found the death of my wife a source of amusement, I sincerely hope not. But knowing and respecting Andy (while disagreeing with his political views) I am absolutely confident that it is most certainly not the case.

I didn't wish IDS dead, I suggested IF there was a God - (I am agnostic, so have no real belief of one) he would strike him down to the extent that he would be forced to endure the catastrophe that the NHS is becoming during his watch, and face the benefit cuts that is happening during that same watch.
It isn't good - as I have very first hand experience with my mother in law - old , senile, with every illness going -Parkinsons, Lewy Body. Dementia , arthritis and cancer , and my better half and I are having to pay £100 per week for her nursing home care.

I respect you too M'lord - but this shambles of an uncaring government have a lot to answer for.
Hopefully they will see the anger at the ballot box.

I think you should leave God out of this. It's not for you to decide what God would do anyway.

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:49 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Handy Andy wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Since Phil found the death of my wife a source of amusement, I sincerely hope not. But knowing and respecting Andy (while disagreeing with his political views) I am absolutely confident that it is most certainly not the case.

I didn't wish IDS dead, I suggested IF there was a God - (I am agnostic, so have no real belief of one) he would strike him down to the extent that he would be forced to endure the catastrophe that the NHS is becoming during his watch, and face the benefit cuts that is happening during that same watch.
It isn't good - as I have very first hand experience with my mother in law - old , senile, with every illness going -Parkinsons, Lewy Body. Dementia , arthritis and cancer , and my better half and I are having to pay £100 per week for her nursing home care.

I respect you too M'lord - but this shambles of an uncaring government have a lot to answer for.
Hopefully they will see the anger at the ballot box.

I think you should leave God out of this. It's not for you to decide what God would do anyway.

Well, no more so than to decide what Mighty Mouse or Superman would do ... at least they still tell us about what Superman's up to. Nobody seems to be keeping up the God/Allah/Buddha/Vishnu/Xenu stories, but if you want to find out what's going on in the world of Agent Renard, I update that nearly nightly Smile

Nobody likes a fiction writer who stops telling stories ...

by nicko Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:51 am

YOU wished he had an heart attack, that means you wished him dead! No amount of weasel words can justify your comment.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:08 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think you should leave God out of this. It's not for you to decide what God would do anyway.

Well, no more so than to decide what Mighty Mouse or Superman would do ... at least they still tell us about what Superman's up to. Nobody seems to be keeping up the God/Allah/Buddha/Vishnu/Xenu stories, but if you want to find out what's going on in the world of Agent Renard, I update that nearly nightly Nobody likes a fiction writer who stops telling stories ...

Yes, yes, whatever. You don't need to keep reminding me how bigoted you are, and how you like to harass people of faith.

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:48 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think you should leave God out of this. It's not for you to decide what God would do anyway.

Well, no more so than to decide what Mighty Mouse or Superman would do ... at least they still tell us about what Superman's up to. Nobody seems to be keeping up the God/Allah/Buddha/Vishnu/Xenu stories, but if you want to find out what's going on in the world of Agent Renard, I update that nearly nightly Nobody likes a fiction writer who stops telling stories ...

Yes, yes, whatever. You don't need to keep reminding me how bigoted you are, and how you like to harass people of faith.

Sorry. Faith can weaken. You know, it's supposed to be powerful enough to carry you through the darkest times of your life! At least that's what we were taught.

If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, of course, you'd brush me off as a fool. Smile

But you still feel the need to shoot me down. It's OK, I've been there -- you have no way to know all the arguments I've made in favor of carrying on faithfully in spite of everything we now know. It's hard to keep up the effort, trying to convince yourself an evil entity is making you doubt, rather than your own good sense.

by Andy Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:07 am

nicko wrote:YOU wished he had an heart attack, that means you wished him dead! No amount of weasel words can justify your comment.

Get a life, how often are heart attacks fatal? My dad had 3 and died of cancer.
IDS has the smell of death about him and has the death of hundreds on his conciounce who couldn't face living after any hope had been ripped from them by this fat , evil little sitter.
To him , that is a success story as it means less benefit being paid and job done = fat bonus and a pat on the back from the Bullingdon boys.
Jog on back to your secret flop cove and spread the word how wicked I am in wishing ill on a nazi pig like IDS.
How is Hugh, btw, still banned?

by Andy Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:10 am

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:Diabetic David Clapson, 59, died with just £3.44 left in his account after his Jobseeker’s Allowance was axed because he missed an appointment

A diabetic ex-soldier died starving and skint after officials axed his benefits.

David Clapson, 59, was stripped of the cash after missing an appointment under harsh Coalition reforms.

He died in Stevenage, Herts, with just £3.44 left in his account.

David once faced death on a daily basis as he served his country loyally in the terror hell of Northern Ireland.

And when he left the Army he went straight into the workplace with BT before becoming a full-time carer for his sick mother.

After she went into a home, diabetic David turned to the state for help while he looked for work.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killed-benefits-cuts-starving-soldier-3923771#ixzz38nKBoGfA

What an absolutely shocking end to the life of a young man who served his country.

He didn't deserve that - he really didn't deserve that.

Grrrrrrrrr

So what is published in the rabidly Left wing Daily Mirror is wisdom and truth, whereas what is published in the rabidly Right wing Daily Mail is a pack of lies?

Yeah, right.........

The story was also reported on Sky news, the Scum, Channel 4 news and in the Mail.
They cannot all be wrong.

by Lone Wolf Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:12 am

Handy Andy wrote:
So no thoughts on the families of the scores of suicide victims who couldn't go on because of decisions instigated by IDS. The man who put N into Cu*ts.

::D::

WANNABE racist trollette "nicko" is only interested is attacking his leftie foes on here...

THAT'S why he's stalking select targets like Handy Andy, Fuzzy, Quill, moi..

AND NOT actually making any comments about the actual threads ! Idea

by Andy Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:22 am

Morning Wolfie, he can stalk me all he likes, I'm going nowhere apart from to my bed after a 12 hour night shift.
No doubt knickers has got them in a twist and reported back to Doom, KAKA, BA and the remnants of once what was a popular forum , now decimated by relentless racism, homophobia and anti Muslim threads.
Even regular right wingers ceased posting on there, horrified by the adulation and glorification of extremists such as Brevik by the likes of Sawyer, SB and Kaka.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:33 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, yes, whatever. You don't need to keep reminding me how bigoted you are, and how you like to harass people of faith.

Sorry. Faith can weaken. You know, it's supposed to be powerful enough to carry you through the darkest times of your life! At least that's what we were taught.

If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, of course, you'd brush me off as a fool.

But you still feel the need to shoot me down. It's OK, I've been there -- you have no way to know all the arguments I've made in favor of carrying on faithfully in spite of everything we now know. It's hard to keep up the effort, trying to convince yourself an evil entity is making you doubt, rather than your own good sense.

Oh grow up. It's you who keeps mocking Christians. Losing your own faith is no reason to mock others who have faith.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:34 am

Handy Andy wrote:
nicko wrote:YOU wished he had an heart attack, that means you wished him dead! No amount of weasel words can justify your comment.
Get a life, how often are heart attacks fatal? My dad had 3 and died of cancer.
IDS has the smell of death about him and has the death of hundreds on his conciounce who couldn't face living after any hope had been ripped from them by this fat , evil little sitter.
To him , that is a success story as it means less benefit being paid and job done = fat bonus and a pat on the back from the Bullingdon boys.
Jog on back to your secret flop cove and spread the word how wicked I am in wishing ill on a nazi pig like IDS.
How is Hugh, btw, still banned?

Your father had three heart attacks, and you're wishing them on someone else? Neutral

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:37 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, yes, whatever. You don't need to keep reminding me how bigoted you are, and how you like to harass people of faith.

Sorry. Faith can weaken. You know, it's supposed to be powerful enough to carry you through the darkest times of your life! At least that's what we were taught.

If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, of course, you'd brush me off as a fool.

But you still feel the need to shoot me down. It's OK, I've been there -- you have no way to know all the arguments I've made in favor of carrying on faithfully in spite of everything we now know. It's hard to keep up the effort, trying to convince yourself an evil entity is making you doubt, rather than your own good sense.

Oh grow up. It's you who keeps mocking Christians. Losing your own faith is no reason to mock others who have faith.

Sure it is. There's a time for realizing that you're the asshole, not the other 20 people in the room Smile

It's called self-awareness. Besides, know the truth and the truth shall set you free!

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:38 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Handy Andy wrote:
nicko wrote:YOU wished he had an heart attack, that means you wished him dead! No amount of weasel words can justify your comment.
Get a life, how often are heart attacks fatal? My dad had 3 and died of cancer.
IDS has the smell of death about him and has the death of hundreds on his conciounce who couldn't face living after any hope had been ripped from them by this fat , evil little sitter.
To him , that is a success story as it means less benefit being paid and job done = fat bonus and a pat on the back from the Bullingdon boys.
Jog on back to your secret flop cove and spread the word how wicked I am in wishing ill on a nazi pig like IDS.
How is Hugh, btw, still banned?

Your father had three heart attacks, and you're wishing them on someone else?

My dad and grandfather had heart attacks, now if I make it another three decades, I win!

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:42 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh grow up. It's you who keeps mocking Christians. Losing your own faith is no reason to mock others who have faith.

Sure it is. There's a time for realizing that you're the asshole, not the other 20 people in the room

It's called self-awareness. Besides, know the truth and the truth shall set you free!

So you're bitter that you lost your faith, and you want the same thing to happen to others. Why not just leave them alone and get some therapy?

by Andy Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:44 am

Plenty of hand wringing and anguish over my comments about IDS, but there was either silence or support from the same posters when it came to grotesque comments about Brevik slaughtering innocent kids .

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:45 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh grow up. It's you who keeps mocking Christians. Losing your own faith is no reason to mock others who have faith.

Sure it is. There's a time for realizing that you're the asshole, not the other 20 people in the room

It's called self-awareness. Besides, know the truth and the truth shall set you free!

So you're bitter that you lost your faith, and you want the same thing to happen to others. Why not just leave them alone and get some therapy?

I'm not bitter, I'm liberated. It's a wonderful thing to shake off an insane way of thinking and rely upon your own judgement for guidance!

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:47 am

Faith is for those too weak to think for themselves. It's sad, but true. I still hold on to the parts of my Christian upbringing that ring true with me. I don't have to believe in idiotic miracles, however, to tell right from wrong.

Which makes me no more special than a monkey, actually:

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:48 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So you're bitter that you lost your faith, and you want the same thing to happen to others. Why not just leave them alone and get some therapy?

I'm not bitter, I'm liberated. It's a wonderful thing to shake off an insane way of thinking and rely upon your own judgement for guidance!

So there's no reason for you to pick on those with faith.

You've pretty much admitted that you are indeed Christianophobic, so that's good.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:49 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Faith is for those too weak to think for themselves. It's sad, but true. I still hold on to the parts of my Christian upbringing that ring true with me. I don't have to believe in idiotic miracles, however, to tell right from wrong.

Which makes me no more special than a monkey, actually:

You're the weak one - you can't accept that others feel differently, and you're intolerant of that.

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:52 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So you're bitter that you lost your faith, and you want the same thing to happen to others. Why not just leave them alone and get some therapy?

I'm not bitter, I'm liberated. It's a wonderful thing to shake off an insane way of thinking and rely upon your own judgement for guidance!

So there's no reason for you to pick on those with faith.

You've pretty much admitted that you are indeed Christianophobic, so that's good.

More like phobic of non rational viewpoints.

Among all of them are those who use it to justify violence.

Why would any intelligent person subscribe to nonsense? Why would a modern person let the hallucinogenic ravings of any ancient desert nomad circumscribe their existence?

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:53 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Faith is for those too weak to think for themselves. It's sad, but true. I still hold on to the parts of my Christian upbringing that ring true with me. I don't have to believe in idiotic miracles, however, to tell right from wrong.

Which makes me no more special than a monkey, actually:

You're the weak one - you can't accept that others feel differently, and you're intolerant of that.

I can accept that, actually -- day to day existence is filled with evidence that some people can't shrug off their childhood fairy tales and grow up. I don't lack tolerance for such people, as I was one of them for most of my life. It takes courage to recognize a lie from someone you love.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:54 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So there's no reason for you to pick on those with faith.

You've pretty much admitted that you are indeed Christianophobic, so that's good.

More like phobic of non rational viewpoints.

Among all of them are those who use it to justify violence.

Why would any intelligent person subscribe to nonsense? Why would a modern person let the hallucinogenic ravings of any ancient desert nomad circumscribe their existence?

Well it's not your business, so don't worry about it.

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:55 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So there's no reason for you to pick on those with faith.

You've pretty much admitted that you are indeed Christianophobic, so that's good.

More like phobic of non rational viewpoints.

Among all of them are those who use it to justify violence.

Why would any intelligent person subscribe to nonsense? Why would a modern person let the hallucinogenic ravings of any ancient desert nomad circumscribe their existence?

Well it's not your business, so don't worry about it.

If someone uses it to dictate to me how to live, you bet your sweet ass it's my business. If I'm not hurting anybody they'd best butt the fuck out, or I'll bitch and whine about it until they give up ::D::

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:58 am

Let me just add -- if I want to say Jesus or Muhammed were morons, that's my fucking right.

If you want to make me live by either of those fictional characters' teachings, you're impinging upon my rights. And I know how to defend my rights, I'm from Texas and we shoot more than squirrels here, darlin'. Twisted Evil

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:12 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Let me just add -- if I want to say Jesus or Muhammed were morons, that's my fucking right.

If you want to make me live by either of those fictional characters' teachings, you're impinging upon my rights. And I know how to defend my rights, I'm from Texas and we shoot more than squirrels here, darlin'.

This forum is beginning to feel very dark and depressing because of this.

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:14 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Let me just add -- if I want to say Jesus or Muhammed were morons, that's my fucking right.

If you want to make me live by either of those fictional characters' teachings, you're impinging upon my rights. And I know how to defend my rights, I'm from Texas and we shoot more than squirrels here, darlin'.

This forum is beginning to feel very dark and depressing because of this.

Because someone disagrees with you? Well, flouncing is always an option. It seems fairly popular where you come from!

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