Put Free Palestine on your Bank Notes

First topic message reminder :

A recent report has said that people in Palestine have begun writing 'Free Palestine' on each Israeli shekel bank note that passes through their hands.

No matter what country you are from, no matter what currency you use.. please: every time you get ANY note in that currency, write on it in pen or permanent marker if possible 'FREE PALESTINE'. This is a global event, if it is illegal in your country to write on notes, please do not break the law. If it not, write away.

---

Ok, so some of my friends and I have started doing this. If you see a speech bubble coming out from the Queen's mouth saying "Free Palestine", that's me.

WARNING: defacing bank notes is illegal in the UK and can be fined £200 for each count, according to Currency and Bank Notes Act 1928. But rarely enforced.

Night Zack
Good luck tomorrow!

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:Oh and another thing Zack, I think you are fab, not going to agree on everything, so what is there to make up over?

Odd that you would ask that, is not like we are married or anything lol

As long as we're cool. I can go to sleep, in peace.

See ya.

That just made me snort my coffee!!!!!!!   

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

No, bank notes is not going to resolve the problem.

And, all forums are pointless when it comes to actual power. Not just Bens.

You called it pointless, which is the wrong attitude to have if you wish to change a person's opinion, not th best way to go about it, is it?

Again reconciliation is the key, and where people have looked to blame one or the other, nothing gets resolved, as I have always said when Apartheid ended, they could have taken vengeance on those who enacted apartheid through the criminal courts, they never did though, instead  they reconciled, showing the way forward

Not trying to change anyone's mind. Actually, the point of this thread was to inform 'like minded' peeps.

As for making peace, I follow the Islamic credo of agreeing to disagree on some issues but come together on common ground. Everyone wants peace.

Sassy wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

As long as we're cool. I can go to sleep, in peace.

See ya.

That just made me snort my coffee!!!!!!!   

Not sure if I should say 'yuk!' Or 'ah, so sweet'. :-)

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:

You called it pointless, which is the wrong attitude to have if you wish to change a person's opinion, not th best way to go about it, is it?

Again reconciliation is the key, and where people have looked to blame one or the other, nothing gets resolved, as I have always said when Apartheid ended, they could have taken vengeance on those who enacted apartheid through the criminal courts, they never did though, instead  they reconciled, showing the way forward

Not trying to change anyone's mind. Actually, the point of this thread was to inform 'like minded' peeps.

As for making peace, I follow the Islamic credo of agreeing to disagree on some issues but come together on common ground. Everyone wants peace.

Good luck tomorrow, local group going but I'm not allowed on doctor's orders, so will be there in spirit.

eddie wrote:Night  Zack
Good luck tomorrow!

Good night, all.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:

You called it pointless, which is the wrong attitude to have if you wish to change a person's opinion, not th best way to go about it, is it?

Again reconciliation is the key, and where people have looked to blame one or the other, nothing gets resolved, as I have always said when Apartheid ended, they could have taken vengeance on those who enacted apartheid through the criminal courts, they never did though, instead  they reconciled, showing the way forward

Not trying to change anyone's mind. Actually, the point of this thread was to inform 'like minded' peeps.

As for making peace, I follow the Islamic credo of agreeing to disagree on some issues but come together on common ground. Everyone wants peace.

Good we are agreed on peace, which to me as seen through examples provided will only come about with reconciliation. and never say never, many thought Apartheid would never end and it did, showing the way forward for peace is to reconcile, which will take both sides to do that, not one!

Sassy wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Good luck tomorrow, local group going but I'm not allowed on doctor's orders, so will be there in spirit.

Not trying to change anyone's mind. Actually, the point of this thread was to inform 'like minded' peeps.

As for making peace, I follow the Islamic credo of agreeing to disagree on some issues but come together on common ground. Everyone wants peace.

Thanks. Nite.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Sassy wrote:

That just made me snort my coffee!!!!!!!   

Not sure if I should say 'yuk!' Or 'ah, so sweet'. :-)

Definitely YUCK!

Sassy wrote:I absolutely disagree with Victor over this which he knows, but he's not right wing, very left on some things.   Smelly I have on ignore again, he just makes me feel physically sick and is not worth reading lol

Why would anyone ignore Smelly, he has a voice, deranged as it might be, but an angle none the less.

Victor is cool, I enjoy hunting and I dislike the EU, as it stands, but I do not judge people on the colour of their skin nor the faith they proclaim to believe in.

Israel and Palestine are in my opinion the crux of the matter, once this can be resolved, the world will be a safer place.

scrat wrote:

Sassy wrote:I absolutely disagree with Victor over this which he knows, but he's not right wing, very left on some things.   Smelly I have on ignore again, he just makes me feel physically sick and is not worth reading lol

Why would anyone ignore Smelly, he has a voice, deranged as it might be, but an angle none the less.

Victor is cool, I enjoy hunting and I dislike the EU, as it stands, but I do not judge people on the colour of their skin nor the faith they proclaim to believe in.

Israel and Palestine are in my opinion the crux of the matter, once this can be resolved, the world will be a safer place.

I have a special reason for ignoring Smelly, apart from the deranged lol And agree, Palestine and Israel are the fulcrum.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Incorrect, Israel was granted a nation by the UN, so was Palestine, where neither had one before under British and formerly Ottoman rule, they stupidly and wrongly did not accept and went to war and Israel does have the power, but would you, when that group has vowed to wipe you out?

Hamas are extremists who themselves will not relinquish power, who since being elected have not allowed any further eclections

And it is that stubborn attitude that is the 'real' extremism.

FYI you will find many leaders of the Zionist movement who have openly called for the extermination of all Arabs. So you can imagine why your attitude doesn't wash with me.

Yes, yes, the Zionists are a separate matter. I would be interested in your answers to Didge's questions. Why did the Palestinians refuse the UN offer? Why would Israel give over territories to a nation that has vowed to extinguish them...and hey, lobs missiles over the border to prove their intent. Why does Hamas not allow elections after first having been elected?

Cutting to the chase: we all know that Hamas is Iran, and Gaza will never again see the light of democracy. Indeed, Gaza is now only the advance battlefield of Iran. Looks like they are following the example of Egypt under Morsi: get elected then turn to theocracy.

Zionists are NOT a separate matter.  Zionist factions are within the current Netanyahu government, the Likud party, and within the Israeli military and intelligence establishment.   To quote Rabbi Fischmann “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.” and that is what they are trying to do.    Members of the Israel Government have said they wish to drive Palestinians into the sea.   I have already put on the link which shows the leader of Mossad had said a week before they disappeared, what they would do if three teenagers were kidnapped from the settlement.  

Israel has taken more and more Palestinian land, but it is all in line with the Zionist Yinon Plan.

Hamas was elected and is no more terrorist than the Israeli Government.   Collective punishment is against the Geneva Convention, but yet again Israel ignores that.   Hamas is not Iran, the fact that you keep repeating that shows how little you know of the Middle East.   Hamas is Gaza, elected by the Gazan people and without them by now Gaza would simply be another Israeli outpost.  

Palestinians have never stolen any Israeli land, have never bulldozed Israeli homes with the people inside them, and all the other atrocities that the Israeli Government condones.

In May 'Price Tag' Extremist Israeli settlers threatened to kill Christian bishops and defaced the RC Church before the arrival of the Pope.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/may-web-only/price-tag-israeli-extremists-target-christians.html?paging=off

You have been shown not to know anything about Egypt and if you are actually condoning the atrocities by Sisi, the secular protesters due to be executed and the persecution and imprisonment of journalists, include Peter Gueste an award winning Australian journalist, shame, shame, shame on you.

And if you think anything you have said will ever make any difference to all the people and organisations that support Palestine, you are sadly mistaken.

Here we go again more Gobbledygook, nobody stole anyone's land in 1948, in fact , the land was part of the British Mandate, the country was divided to so the majority populations in each area where given control over. Now here is the crux, it was the Palestinians who refused this and went to war, other Arab nations joined in and Israel basically won, but Palestinians had no nation before this anyway either. So the point of contention is here where a people wrongly went against a UN decision and through their own fault thousands were displaced. After this around 600,000 to 800,000 Jews were displaced from (Muslim majority countries) their homes after living there for generations, having done nothing wrong accept the association of being a Jew. They lost all their properties and businesses. The next interesting part, the displaced Palestinian caused so much problems in Jordan, they were suppressed an kicked out, where many went to Lebanon, who were a major part in the shifting of balance of Muslims and Christians, in the favour of Muslims. The formation of the PLO arming the displaced Palestinians caused over 120,000 fatalities,  over one million (Mainly Christians) Lebanese were displaced because of the Palestinians shifting the balance are partly being the cause of the civil war. Now Israel has done wrongs, but as soon as Hamas gained power, then we start to see executions after unfair trials, no religious freedom, etc. So lets look at what the history of the Palestinians is.
Aggressors, displacing a million Lebanese, being the cause of two conflicts, which also saw the displacement of over 600,000 Jews who did nothing wrong and is the sole reason behind why there is still this conflict today, because they could not accept the formation of Israel, and to their own cost. So yes Palestinians have stolen lands, ask any displaced Lebanese.

What has Israel done, well it has defended itself from naked aggression and has poorly built homes on lands in Gaza and the West Bank, people have way better rights than they do in any Muslim surrounding country, they then target military areas, which Hamas places within civilian areas. Sadly this has caused innocent women an children to die, which again Israel's resolve is to take out their military, but it shows Hamas does not give a shit about the Palestinians, because they know Israel will not shun away from attacking military targets.Zionists treat people badly, but in the main many people lead a good life no matter their ethnicity or religion in Israel.  I dread to think what would happen if Hamas was give free reign to rule a nation, it would be further bloodshed and more innocents would die on both sides.

Lets not forget, again it was Hamas who started this latest problem, yet again.

Many Chances for a Different Future—Thrown Away, Thrown Away;

But We Can Start the Healing


by Rabbi Arthur Waskow

On Tuesday I wrote that war between Israel and Palestine was “looming.” {My Shalom Report letter is posted at https://theshalomcenter.org/content/war-looming-make-fasts-tammuz-ramadan-hunger-strikes-against-violence )

Now the war is under way. People are dying—more children already than in the infamous murders of four teen-agers. (At this writing, all the newly dead, including kids, are Palestinian.) And last week’s bands of pogrom-seeking street mobs are being dwarfed by “official” bombs and rockets and uniformed troops.

Many— on the scene and in the USA – who felt the killings so shocking when done “unofficially,” feel more callous toward them when done with official flags and fiat. But the blood flows faster.

The claims of “self-defense” (on both sides) boil down to the sour children’s wail, “He hit me first!” No sensible parents accept that rationale, but instead seek to separate the furious children and nurture the peaceable energies within them.

So the call for a fast on Tuesday – Jews sharing the observance of the Fast of Tammuz with Muslims observing one day of the month-long Fast of Ramadan – as a “Hunger Strike Against Violence” is even more on-point today than it was two days ago.

If you want to join, please click here: https://theshalomcenter.org/civicrm/petition/sign?sid=15&reset=1 — and please also go to the FaceBook sign-up page at https://www.facebook.com/events/1509760402593014/

Were there alternatives? Yes—on both sides:

After the kidnapping of the three Israeli youngsters, Hamas could have said clearly that it utterly rejected this kind of violence, and could have joined in seeking out the murderers—even, or especially, if the killers were part of a rogue break-out from Hamas—as seems to be the case.

Whether Hamas had done this or not, the Israeli Government could have focused entirely on pursuing the killers, not using the kidnap/murders as a pretext for destroying all of Hamas through mass arrests and attacks.

Whether the Israeli Government had done this or not, Hamas—instead of authorizing or permitting rocket attacks from Gaza—could have called for Ramadan to become a time of massive nonviolent civil disobedience by Palestinians at the Gaza and West Bank borders, in East Jerusalem, and inside Israel.

Whether Hamas had done this or not, the Israeli government—instead of bombing Gaza and mobilizing troops for an invasion—could have offered to meet with the new “unity government” of Palestine on condition that the rocket attacks from Gaza immediately ceased.

All these chances for a different future—thrown away.

Both sides, and either, could and should have acted to advance nonviolence and peacefulness. But I am not saying the burden of responsibility rests equally on both. The overweening Occupation weighs heavily on the scales, so Israel bears more responsibility to act responsibly – because it is more powerful.

We could almost shape a chant of Lamentation in the wailing melody of Eicha:

All these chances

for a different future –

thrown away, God,

thrown away.

Instead,

the Season

of Our Sorrow—

Grief and Sorrow.

Yesterday I received the following note from Sheila Musaji, editor of The American Muslim – - the leading Muslim on-line magazine in the USA:


Salaam, Shalom, Peace,

I posted your article encouraging a fast next Tues. on TAM and tweeted and posted to Facebook. Others in the Muslim community have been sharing and saying they are “in”.

Amomg them is Maha El Genaidi, the President of Islamic Networks Group(ING), and others on this list are also very active in their local and national communities.

Let me know what we can do to add as many names as possible to those of Muslims and Jews who will share this fast. Of course, I would like to participate and to help promote this.

Sheila Musaji, Editor The American Muslim

So the notion of the shared Fast/ Hunger Strike Against Violence on Tuesday is more on-point than ever. If you want to join, please click here: https://theshalomcenter.org/civicrm/petition/sign?sid=15&reset=1 and please also go to the FaceBook sign-up page at https://www.facebook.com/events/1509760402593014/

Shalom, salaam, peace— Arthur

Palestine’ is an ancient name, for a land of many cultures

by Martin Hughes

What was the Palestine of today called before Roman times? It was called ‘Palestine’, which was by no means a transient name, being witnessed from around 1175 BCE and often thereafter. There are certainly other names for parts of Palestine and for the wider region to which Palestine belonged and there are yet other names placed on ‘utopian maps’ which describe what should be rather than what is. Of course all the famous Biblical names, very much including ‘Israel’, play a part in the story of this region.

What study of these names, perhaps especially of ‘Israel’, reveals is very interesting. What we perceive is a territory, properly called ‘ancient Palestine’, that had been somewhat multicultural for as long as memory could extend.

FIRST PHASE: ISRAEL, CANAAN, PALESTINE

The oldest pattern of Holy Land names comes from before 800 BCE, i.e. before names began to reflect the ideas of the Neo-Assyrian empire.

The name ‘Israel’ occurs in the famous Stela (inscribed stone) of the Egyptian King Merneptah, which is often dated to 1205 BCE. ‘Israel’ appears as one of many groups in the area concerned. It’s striking that these groups overlap in culture – there are no great differences in their appearance – and that they are all targets of Egyptian displeasure. Israel first appears in union with other Palestinians.

Another inscription, recording King Ramesses’ conflict with the Sea Peoples, is dated to around 1175. Here we first meet the ‘Peleset’, who must be the Philistines or Palestinians. Only a few decades separate Merneptah’s ‘Israel’, of which we never hear the last, from Ramesses’ ‘Peleset’, of which we hear little. Of the record of Genesis 20 – 21, where we find the kindly Palestinians already in place before Abraham arrived, that is some thousand years before Ramesses, we hear even less. Admittedly, this is part of the Biblical record that most historians would dispute or dismiss, but there’s something intriguing about it.

We meet ‘Israel’ again around 850 – 800 in the Mesha, Tel Dan and Kurkh Stelae, all linking the name Israel with the royal house of Omri and Ahab and the important but limited realm ruled from Samaria. Rather later, we have the Black Obelisk, now in the British Museum, not using the name ‘Israel’ but mentioning the tribute of Jehu, ‘son of Omri’: the current king is known not by the name of his land but of his real or supposed – quite recent – ancestor. This submission to (Jehu would have said ‘alliance with’) Assyria was significant enough to leave threemore inscriptions mentioning it, all using the same ‘son of Omri’ terminology.(Tammi Schneider, Biblical Archaeology Review, 1995).

ASSYRIANS AND ‘OMRIA’; ISAIAH AND ‘CANAAN’.

For a while after 800 the Assyrians dominate the non-Biblical record and its wording. Their preferred term of the Kingdom based on Samaria seems to be‘Mat/Bit Humri-(a)’ – ‘Omria’, we might say. Adad-nirari, who reigned from 810-783, speaks of King Joash as ‘of Samaria’ and refers to Omria, Palestine and Edom as subsets of the area which paid him tribute. Tiglath-Pileser around 740 had trouble with Menachem ‘of Samaria’ and Hanno ‘of Gaza’. Sargon, capturing Samaria in 721, refers to ‘Samaria and all Omria’. The name ‘Israel’ recedes behind ‘Omria’ in this phase, the Assyrians presumably reflecting the usage of the kings reigning in Samaria.

The first series of Isaiah’s oracles is set ‘when King Uzziah had died’, that is in the years around 740 of growing Neo-Assyrian influence, though possibly they were written later. Here (XIX, 18) ‘Canaan’ is the name chosen for the area where the prophet’s language is spoken, a word suggesting a region with many races rather than with just one. But even by Uzziah’s time that name was obsolescent politically.

‘Canaan’ is attested in the Amarna Letters, an Egyptian archive dated to around 1350 BCE. Its equivalents are also found in Sumerian records going back to 3000. ‘Canaan’ is linked with ‘Phoenicia’, both names referring to the red or purple dye from murex snails for which the region was famous. The area to which the name belongs is never formally defined outside the Bible. Its use seems to have become infrequent, informal – ‘the dye-producing region’ – and increasingly tied not to the lands assigned to Israel in the Bible but either to a wide trading area where Phoenicians were active or more narrowly to the Phoenician heartland with its snail beds, our Lebanon. There is only one reference, where Pharaoh Seti around 1400 attacks a city thought by some to be Gaza, to ‘Canaan’ in the whole of James B. Pritchard’s often used anthology, The Ancient Near East. Later, around 920, another Egyptian inscription (Sheshonq’s – I’m following the translation in R.K. Ritner’sbook picturesquely entitled The Libyan Anarchy, p.201) seems to call this area ‘all the lands of the Phoenicians’.

The convergence in meaning of ‘Canaan’ and ‘Phoenicia’ as time went by is illustrated by the way in which the Septuagint translators of the 200s sometimes (for instance, in Joshua V, 12) use ‘Phoenician’ where the Hebrew text says ‘Canaanite’. By then the narrower, ‘Lebanese’ idea of Canaan/Phoenicia was becoming dominant. Around 270 the city calling itself in coinage ‘the mother of Canaan’ was Beirut, the Phoenician Berytus/Laodicea. ‘Canaan’ was not to be the name that stuck in the last millennium BCE to what is ‘Israel’ or ‘Palestine’ now; neither was ‘Israel’.

BIBLICAL HISTORY TEXTS: THE HETEROGENEOUS COUNTRY

We find in Numbers 34 a description delivered to Moses of the land donated by God – ‘the inheritance of the people of Israel in the land of Canaan’, according to the interesting words of the final verse – not regarded as identical with any actual Israelite kingdom. It is notable that there is no instruction that the name of the land be changed. Shlomo Sand (Invention of Land of Israel, p.86) cites Jewish scholars from the post-Temple period who explained the persistence in the Bible of the name ‘Canaan’ and the sparing use of ‘Land of Israel’ by saying that it was the privilege of the Canaanites that the land, after it had ceased to be theirs, should keep their name. But Numbers 34 does not state that ‘Canaan’ is what the land within these borders was commonly called in Moses’ time or later: rather it establishes ‘Canaan’ as a term in Israelite law for the land that God has donated. But that land continued to be a land of many peoples.

Judges records the terrible crime at Gibeah and refers (XIX, 29) to ‘borders of Israel’, indicating that this was the region where Israelites were found but conveys no implication that the land was ‘of Israel’ solidly. The picture presented is of a patchwork of populations, Israelite and other, existing within these borders: disaster befalls travellers who have carefully sought out an Israelite village. This is the situation shortly before the establishment of the Monarchy, under whose rule no massive ethnic cleansing is recorded. On the contrary, religious practices outside Israelite tradition – so much linked with other nations – evidently, according to the angry testimony of the main Biblical history texts, which stretch from Deuteronomy to II Kings, continued.

The title ‘King of Israel’ is ascribed to David and Solomon. However, the story of the rending apart of their United Monarchy would not make sense if all its component kingdoms, Israel, Judah, Edom and perhaps more, were considered to have become effectively one or even to have used one name. In Sand’s view, this comprehensive, ‘all kingdoms’, sense of ‘land of Israel’ occurs nowhere in Scripture. I would say that it does occur, though only in a way that confirms, once again, the historic status of non-Israelites, notably in Ezekiel, composed at least in part around 570 under Nebuchadnezzar. His references to the Land of Israel build up to the specificationfor a land to be divided among tribes- and this is very close to the specification of ‘the Land of Canaan’ in Numbers. It is with reference to Ezekiel that Harold Brodsky (Jewish Bible Quarterly, 2006) uses the phrase ‘utopian map’: a religious prescription for what should be, not a geographical description of what is. Even in these utopian verses the presence of non-Israelites is recognised: their children are to be treated as if native-born (XLVII, 22). The highly heterogeneous country which is to be the Land of Israel when God wills is not, according to the Bible’s witness, the Land of Israel yet.

‘JUDAEA’.

‘Yehud’, named after the former Kingdom of Judah, was originally the Persian administrative district around Jerusalem when the Exile ended and the Second Temple period began in the late 500s. Yehud expanded (Israel Finkelstein Revue Biblique 2010) into the major Herodian Kingdom ‘of the Jews’ (Josephus, Wars I, 14) or ‘of Judaea’ (Luke I, 5): not ‘of Israel’. The name ‘Judaea’ sometimes expanded to fit the ancient Canaan (Josephus, Antiquities I, 7), sometimes stuck to its original area, particularly when it became the ‘tetrarchy’ of Herod’s son Archelaus. Herod, King from 40 BCE, moved smoothly into the position of key local ally of Rome, making Roman-Jewish friendship, at least among elite families, into a kernel of policy (Antiquities XV, 11).The emphasis on the Jewish nature of the Kingdom, many of whose subjects were not Jewish, must have implied official disregard, though not necessarily general disuse, of other traditional names.

‘PALESTINE’.

Herodotus (IV, 39), writing around 450 BCE, refers to the ‘peninsula’, land between waters, that runs from Phoenicia ‘along our sea by way of Palestine-Syria, to Egypt, where it ends’. This is one of some seven references to Palestine (often ‘Syria-Palestine’) in the Histories. Only three nations inhabit this tract of land, he says, presumably meaning Palestinian Syrians, Syrians living further inland (the Bible’s Aramaeans) and Egyptians. Here at last we have a name, treated as if in general use and applied unmistakeably and specifically to the whole of the land from inner Syria to the sea.

Josephus, who himself (Antiquities XX, 11)uses ‘Palestine’, refers (Apion I, 169) to another passage of Herodotus (II, 104) saying that by ‘Syrians of Palestine’ he must mean Jews, since they practised circumcision. This is another question, quite debatable, since Herodotus himself thinks that circumcision is a sign of Egyptian influence: at any rate, Josephus had no objection to Herodotus’ choice of name.Adequate evidence of continuing use of the name ‘Palestine’ beyond Herodotus’ time comes from Aristotle on the Dead Sea (MetereologyII, 3) – (here the ‘Syria’ prefix is beginning to drop away) – and from other geographical works, of which The Circumnavigation of Pseudo-Scylax has the most entertaining name.

CONCLUSION.

For Adad-Nirari in 800 ‘Omria’ and ‘Palestine’ were subsets of the Holy Land. With the disappearance of Omria, ‘Palestine’ must steadily have become what it was for Herodotus in 450, the name in general use for the whole land. We commonly hear that the Romans eventually imposed the alien name ‘Palestine’ on Israel or Judaea. But it would be truer to say that they eventually permitted the re-emergence, as Herodian ‘Judaea’ receded into the past, of ‘Palestine’, the only pre-Roman name of whose use – not as part of a religious plan for future times but as a normal term of reference – for that land specifically, and for all that land, we are sure. The name remained in use through many turbulent centuries: something to bear in mind when talk arises of historic connections between lands and peoples. Moreover, the study of ancient names reminds us of how multicultural ancient Palestine was. The picture of ancient times as all conflict and conquest is a root both of Zionism and of anti-Semitism. It could do with being re-drawn.

I have consulted The Oxford History of the Biblical World, Lester Grabbe’s Ancient Israel: What Do We Know and How Do We Know It? J.B. Pritchard’s anthology The Ancient Near East, and other recognised works.

Martin Hughes, a frequent commenter on this site, has degrees in classics, philosophy and theology and was a lecturer in philosophy at Durham University, now retired. He is a past President of the UK Association of University Teachers.

Peace will come when both sides seek to reconcile, but bit pointless debating C&P, he has a point, but as stated peace will only come when the majority in both nations stand up to Hamas and the Zionists and form peace through reconciliation.

To put the onus on Israel is biased and very poor when again it was Hamas that acted in firing rockets, if they seek peace, they have a funny way of showing this with aggression.

Man is this now going to be a spam thread again?

Palestine has never been an independent nation

Didge wrote:Man is this now going to be a spam thread again?

Palestine has never been an independent nation

Spam???

How is posting an article meaning spamming the board?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Didge wrote:Man is this now going to be a spam thread again?

Palestine has never been an independent nation

Spam???

How is posting an article meaning spamming the board?

You posted two full articles, without taking on any of the points, it seems you want me to debate the articles. Am happy for links with supporting text to support posts, but you gave no links anyway, but it is a tad redundant to debate others views who are not here, when you offer none yourself. Anyway, my points still stand!
Palestine was never an Independent nation, it was offered this and instead choose war to their own cost and of which was to the cost of the Lebanese.

Didge wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Spam???

How is posting an article meaning spamming the board?

You posted two full articles, without taking on any of the points, it seems you want me to debate the articles. Am happy for links with supporting text to support posts, but you gave no links anyway, but it is a tad redundant to debate others views who are not here, when you offer none yourself. Anyway, my points still stand!
Palestine was never an Independent nation, it was offered this and instead choose war to their own cost and of which was to the cost of the Lebanese.

Debate with you?

I have many times but you don't bother 'listening' to me and like the sound of your own voice it seems.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Didge wrote:

You posted two full articles, without taking on any of the points, it seems you want me to debate the articles. Am happy for links with supporting text to support posts, but you gave no links anyway, but it is a tad redundant to debate others views who are not here, when you offer none yourself. Anyway, my points still stand!
Palestine was never an Independent nation, it was offered this and instead choose war to their own cost and of which was to the cost of the Lebanese.

Debate with you?

I have many times but you don't bother 'listening' to me and like the sound of your own voice it seems.

Deflection, so you want people to bow down to your views, sorry that is not what a debate is about, as people will disagree and I do listen to your views, though as seen most are C&P and thus not your own!.
I suppose when I defend you I am listening then, making your view a complete contradiction to when it suits you and as seen you get personal, how very childish.
So you have nothing to counter my views.
Hey ho

Didge wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Debate with you?

I have many times but you don't bother 'listening' to me and like the sound of your own voice it seems.

Deflection, so you want people to bow down to your views, sorry that is not what a debate is about, as people will disagree and I do listen to your views, though as seen most are C&P and thus not your own!.
I suppose when I defend you I am listening then, making your view a complete contradiction to when it suits you and as seen you get personal, how very childish.
So you have nothing to counter my views.
Hey ho

Im not getting personal. Im telling you exactly how it is with you.

We have debated Palestine issues many many times this isn't the first time is it?

I hate going round in circles with you...............

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
A recent report has said that people in Palestine have begun writing 'Free Palestine' on each Israeli shekel bank note that passes through their hands.

No matter what country you are from, no matter what currency you use.. please: every time you get ANY note in that currency, write on it in pen or permanent marker if possible 'FREE PALESTINE'. This is a global event, if it is illegal in your country to write on notes, please do not break the law. If it not, write away.

...............................

 

DON'T be so naive, Your Fuzziness...

There are only a handful of countries where these kinds of drawn out passive protests will really have any impact on events in the Middle East..

Places like the USA, Britain, maybe Germany or Poland ~ as well as Israel and the occupied territories themselves.

Over here, not only will such a demonstration not have any real effect; but "defacing currency" is a crime, though no-one's likely to ever be convicted unless they put up their hand and admit to it in public..  ::resmahauth:: 

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Didge wrote:


Deflection, so you want people to bow down to your views, sorry that is not what a debate is about, as people will disagree and I do listen to your views, though as seen most are C&P and thus not your own!.
I suppose when I defend you I am listening then, making your view a complete contradiction to when it suits you and as seen you get personal, how very childish.
So you have nothing to counter my views.
Hey ho

Im not getting personal. Im telling you exactly how it is with you.

We have debated Palestine issues many many times this isn't the first time is it?

I hate going round in circles with you...............

Or you hate not being able to respond to someone who has a knowledge of history on this subject, sorry I find your excuses poor and nothing but deflection where again it is deflecting on to your views on me. There is no going around in circles, you have a poor biased, inaccurate view on the Israel/Palestinian problem, that means nobody is going around in circles, you just offer excuses, as you cannot counter.

Move on then please and allow others to debate.

Thanks

Israel and Palestine have much to answer for, it is this conflict that unites Muslims in their hatred for the Jews.

Hating Jews is nothing new, us Brits fucked them off centuries ago because of their money lending activities, recent history teaches us that the Germans blamed the Jew for exploiting the depression era, and supporting the claims for reparations after WW1.

The modern international Jew owns and operates many global industries, and Israel gains trillions from these activities.

Of course it does not help when many Jewish owned businesses are at the forefront of tax avoiders, "Starbucks" and Google come to mind.

Sometimes it appears that Israel uses it victim status to carry out atrocities on the Palestinians, ironically the very same atrocities visited on Jews by the nazis.

Israel ignores many reasonable requests including UN demands, Palestinians are being slaughtered and the land grab continues.

In my mind, Israel should learn from history and ask itself why it creates such hatred.

Didge wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Im not getting personal. Im telling you exactly how it is with you.

We have debated Palestine issues many many times this isn't the first time is it?

I hate going round in circles with you...............

Or you hate not being able to respond to someone who has a knowledge of history on this subject, sorry I find your excuses poor and nothing but deflection where again it is deflecting on to your views on me. There is no going around in circles, you have a poor biased, inaccurate view on the Israel/Palestinian problem, that means nobody is going around in circles, you just offer excuses, as you cannot counter.

Move on then please and allow others to debate.

Thanks

Lol!!!!!!
Blah blah blah

As I said earlier Didge you like the sound of your own voice

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Didge wrote:Man is this now going to be a spam thread again?

Palestine has never been an independent nation

Spam???

How is posting an article meaning spamming the board?

SM, Didge is the only one allowed to post articles, you should know that by now lol

He tried to say that Israel was not apartheid, and said, show me where Jews and Arabs are educated separately, so I did, so he said not all, so showed him it was all and it was policy of the Israel Education Department.

Honestly, don't bother. Zack achieved his aiim, those of us that want to participate wiill and Didge will run round in ever decreasing circles, unfortunately never disappearing, so put him on ignore, first thing I did this morning after his rubbish yesterday.

How's you, and how much longer for Ramadan?

scrat wrote:Israel and Palestine have much to answer for, it is this conflict that unites Muslims in their hatred for the Jews.

Hating Jews is nothing new, us Brits fucked them off centuries ago because of their money lending activities, recent history teaches us that the Germans blamed the Jew for exploiting the depression era, and supporting the claims for reparations after WW1.

The modern international Jew owns and operates many global industries, and Israel gains trillions from these activities.

Of course it does not help when many Jewish owned businesses are at the forefront of tax avoiders, "Starbucks" and Google come to mind.

Sometimes it appears that Israel uses it victim status to carry out atrocities on the Palestinians, ironically the very same atrocities visited on Jews by the nazis.

Israel ignores many reasonable requests including UN demands, Palestinians are being slaughtered and the land grab continues.

In my mind, Israel should learn from history and ask itself why it creates such hatred.

Again a tad inaccurate, the hatred started when Jews started to migrate areas that Jews were already living and the Muslims united, when the UN declared Israel a nation, they also did this with Palestine, so the problem started way back then when Arab nations would not accept the formation of Israel and has since had nations attack them. Israel is not without blame and the land grabbing is as stated also wrong, but it is a nation that has been under continuous threat since is birth in 1948.
So how can they create hatred when the hatred was already there?

If as seen countless hundreds of thousands of Jews were displaced after this formation and because Israel won, what crime did they commit?
None

As I say peace will only come when blame stops happening and both sides see the futility of conflict, where they seek reconciliation, as of yet blaming and hating has already gone on for decades, which has continued to fuel hate between each other

scrat wrote:Israel and Palestine have much to answer for, it is this conflict that unites Muslims in their hatred for the Jews.

Hating Jews is nothing new, us Brits fucked them off centuries ago because of their money lending activities, recent history teaches us that the Germans blamed the Jew for exploiting the depression era, and supporting the claims for reparations after WW1.

The modern international Jew owns and operates many global industries, and Israel gains trillions from these activities.

Of course it does not help when many Jewish owned businesses are at the forefront of tax avoiders, "Starbucks" and Google come to mind.

Sometimes it appears that Israel uses it victim status to carry out atrocities on the Palestinians, ironically the very same atrocities visited on Jews by the nazis.

Israel ignores many reasonable requests including UN demands, Palestinians are being slaughtered and the land grab continues.

In my mind, Israel should learn from history and ask itself why it creates such hatred.

This is what most on here don't see.

Exactly of course it plays on the victim status and why America funds it millions of dollars.

Its like the saying goes the victim becomes the bully...............

Sassy wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Spam???

How is posting an article meaning spamming the board?

SM, Didge is the only one allowed to post articles, you should know that by now lol

He tried to say that Israel was not apartheid, and said, show me where Jews and Arabs are educated separately, so I did, so he said not all, so showed him it was all and it was policy of the Israel Education Department.

Honestly, don't bother.   Zack achieved his aiim, those of us that want to participate wiill and Didge will run round in ever decreasing circles, unfortunately never disappearing, so put him on ignore, first thing I did this morning after his rubbish yesterday.    

How's you, and how much longer for Ramadan?

More examples of Sassy having no intent to debate and become personal again, every time it gets noted and shows how childish she is trying to poorly control this forum.

Sassy wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Spam???

How is posting an article meaning spamming the board?

SM, Didge is the only one allowed to post articles, you should know that by now lol

He tried to say that Israel was not apartheid, and said, show me where Jews and Arabs are educated separately, so I did, so he said not all, so showed him it was all and it was policy of the Israel Education Department.

Honestly, don't bother.   Zack achieved his aiim, those of us that want to participate wiill and Didge will run round in ever decreasing circles, unfortunately never disappearing, so put him on ignore, first thing I did this morning after his rubbish yesterday.    

How's you, and how much longer for Ramadan?

I know Sass   

Its the 13 fast today so im getting used to it by now. x

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Didge wrote:

Or you hate not being able to respond to someone who has a knowledge of history on this subject, sorry I find your excuses poor and nothing but deflection where again it is deflecting on to your views on me. There is no going around in circles, you have a poor biased, inaccurate view on the Israel/Palestinian problem, that means nobody is going around in circles, you just offer excuses, as you cannot counter.

Move on then please and allow others to debate.

Thanks

Lol!!!!!!
Blah blah blah

As I said earlier Didge you like the sound of your own voice

You clearly have heard to much of Sassy's and it shows

scrat wrote:Israel and Palestine have much to answer for, it is this conflict that unites Muslims in their hatred for the Jews.

Hating Jews is nothing new, us Brits fucked them off centuries ago because of their money lending activities, recent history teaches us that the Germans blamed the Jew for exploiting the depression era, and supporting the claims for reparations after WW1.

The modern international Jew owns and operates many global industries, and Israel gains trillions from these activities.

Of course it does not help when many Jewish owned businesses are at the forefront of tax avoiders, "Starbucks" and Google come to mind.

Sometimes it appears that Israel uses it victim status to carry out atrocities on the Palestinians, ironically the very same atrocities visited on Jews by the nazis.

Israel ignores many reasonable requests including UN demands, Palestinians are being slaughtered and the land grab continues.

In my mind, Israel should learn from history and ask itself why it creates such hatred.

Agreed. I have a Jewish friend who has the theory that Jewish people hate that they are seen as victims after the last war and think they should have fought back more, even though it was obviously impossible, and even though they never stood a chance. He thinks, to make up for that, they have decided never to be seen as a victim again and have become more war like and aggressive and uncaring of anyone else but themselves because of it, and it makes him ashamed. He is a member of the one of the groups in Israel trying to stand up to it, and I salute him.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Sassy wrote:

SM, Didge is the only one allowed to post articles, you should know that by now lol

He tried to say that Israel was not apartheid, and said, show me where Jews and Arabs are educated separately, so I did, so he said not all, so showed him it was all and it was policy of the Israel Education Department.

Honestly, don't bother.   Zack achieved his aiim, those of us that want to participate wiill and Didge will run round in ever decreasing circles, unfortunately never disappearing, so put him on ignore, first thing I did this morning after his rubbish yesterday.    

How's you, and how much longer for Ramadan?

I know Sass   

Its the 13 fast today so im getting used to it by now. x

Nearly half way through then, well done xx

Sassy wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

I know Sass   

Its the 13 fast today so im getting used to it by now. x

Nearly half way through then, well done xx

Yup cant wait for Eid so I can hit the beach lol xxx

Zack if you see this im going to the demo too.

See you there.

Sassy wrote:

scrat wrote:Israel and Palestine have much to answer for, it is this conflict that unites Muslims in their hatred for the Jews.

Hating Jews is nothing new, us Brits fucked them off centuries ago because of their money lending activities, recent history teaches us that the Germans blamed the Jew for exploiting the depression era, and supporting the claims for reparations after WW1.

The modern international Jew owns and operates many global industries, and Israel gains trillions from these activities.

Of course it does not help when many Jewish owned businesses are at the forefront of tax avoiders, "Starbucks" and Google come to mind.

Sometimes it appears that Israel uses it victim status to carry out atrocities on the Palestinians, ironically the very same atrocities visited on Jews by the nazis.

Israel ignores many reasonable requests including UN demands, Palestinians are being slaughtered and the land grab continues.

In my mind, Israel should learn from history and ask itself why it creates such hatred.

Agreed.   I have a Jewish friend who has the theory that Jewish people hate that they are seen as victims after the last war and think they should have fought back more, even though it was obviously impossible, and even though they never stood a chance.   He thinks, to make up for that, they have decided never to be seen as a victim again and have become more war like and aggressive and uncaring of anyone else but themselves because of it, and it makes him ashamed.   He is a member of the one of the groups in Israel trying to stand up to it, and I salute him.

Fallacy association.

I think it has everything to do with countless countries deeming to wish to wipe them off the face of the earth. again the hatred started in the late 19th century when Jews were fleeing persecution in Russia for example. To claim they play the victim card is an insult to the many real victims of the Holocaust, to bring them into this is poor to say the least, when many victims did flee because they had no homes to return to after surviving concentration camps.
The point is people ignore the plain fact Hamas already with power are a danger and keep staring the aggression, this is ignored all the time, plus the fact it as stated does not even care about its citizens, placing them in harms way where military facilities are. Or how they have unfair trials and execute civilians, mainly if they are just not in support of Hamas. Hamas is controlled by Iran as it did the same when the Palestinian were a major part of the war caused in Lebanon, but nobody seems to give a fuck about over a million fled that nation, hence the irrational and illogical view points presented

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Ok, not sure why that's sideways. Lol!

Is that a Rabbi holding the placard?

SEXY MAMA wrote:Zack if you see this im going to the demo too.

See you there.

Sorry - just saw this. Came from Gloucester Rd end and made my way towards the podium but outside the pen. Ended up opposite the bus, hence the picture.

Hope you were ok. Great protest. Great location.

Sassy wrote:Is that a Rabbi holding the placard?

Yup. Jews against Zionism.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Sassy wrote:Is that a Rabbi holding the placard?

You. Jews against Zionism.

I know of them.      

Sassy wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

You. Jews against Zionism.

I know of them.       

It was a good natured but very vocal project. You could hear them across the park.

Shame they couldn't hear them in Israel. However, there have been protests from Americans in Jerusalem and America as well.

See: http://www.newsfixboard.com/t5799-us-complicity-in-israel-s-attack-on-gaza

Zack you going Sunday?

It was a great demo today did you notice the helicopters and number 9 bus!!!!

Cowards

Hi SM, really glad to hear that Jews against Zionism where there!

Sassy wrote:Hi SM, really glad to hear that Jews against Zionism where there!

Yes its estimated about 10 thousand people attended