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Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets?

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Post by Ben Reilly Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:51 pm

I've been reading a few articles about this, and I have to come down on the tablet side, for a number of reasons. The biggest is that I think tablets have the ability to be effective educational tools in ways that print books will never achieve -- integrating text, animation, audio and game-like exercises into a single app.

Some people worry about the expense, and it's an issue, but that seems like it creates a huge market for a rugged, child-friendly tablet that can be used for, say, up to 10 years. Or even help in the push for modular mobile devices that can be continuously repaired rather than replaced. Imagine the difference between science instructional materials on a 10-year-old tablet that can be updated on the fly vs. a 10-year-old science textbook. When Pluto was demoted, how many millions of textbooks became instantly wrong? Whereas on a tablet, that information could be updated with a few keystrokes. Educational apps can also be continuously updated with free-for-educational-purposes material from a variety of sources, like YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/user/teachers

I think using the tablet itself would be educational, getting kids ready for a world in which they'll be expected to be able to use mobile devices on the job. I use my smartphone for a work-related task nearly every single day (including weekends).

There are other issues, such as heavy backpacks full of textbooks being unhealthy for kids to lug around, where a tablet could weigh under a kilogram and 3,500 e-books weighs the same as a single molecule of DNA (a tidbit I picked up in my readings on the topic).

Of course, some of the cons include the fact that not all students have Wi-Fi access at home, the fact that tablets are popular targets for theft, the potential for tablets to be abused ... But I think the same economic factors that are driving down the price of tablets themselves could help on things like making sure the tablets have a 3G connection so there's no need for Wi-Fi, etc.

What do you think?
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Post by eddie Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:26 am

I see all your points and love my iPad and can see the benefits and merits of children using one....., BUT!!

I'm still old-fashioned!!! I like the pen and paper approach. I like the paper and the books.

If we went the way of the tablet, don't you think that in years to come, we'd forget how to write?

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Post by Guest Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:27 am

How can you write notes in the margins of a tablet?

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Post by eddie Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:34 am

Sassy wrote:How can you write notes in the margins of a tablet?

Well you'd have an app for that - I suppose.

I'm more worried that as a species we'd forget how to write. Let's face it, some people already text talk more than they write properly.

It's a shame. I feel sorry for poor Mr Bic  Sad 
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Post by Ben Reilly Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:11 am

Writing on a tablet:

Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? N-trigstylus1

You could probably combine a few of the features of several existing apps, like Kindle Reader (which has a bookmarking feature) and EverNote (which does too many things to mention) into a great note-taking function that could either stand alone as a student's virtual "folder" or be incorporated into each class's app (or apps; no reason to just have one for each subject, particular in higher grade levels).
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Post by Cass Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:51 am

I think a combination of both. so many schools are mixing the 2 and so are libraries ....as to text books it would save districts a whole bunch of money when it comes to updating history and science and English lit but language and composition and maths don't change that much on a regular basis.

besides there is so much unreliable stuff out on the Internet - I gave had to teach website evaluation skills to quite tech savy kids....they are so used to google and suchlike that they don't have the research skills which you do need in everyday life and want everthibg instantaneously .....that is not how real life works.
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Post by Ben Reilly Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:37 am

Cass wrote:I think a combination of both. so many schools are mixing the 2 and so are libraries ....as to text books it would save districts a whole bunch of money when it comes to updating history and science and English lit but language and composition and maths don't change that much on a regular basis.

besides there is so much unreliable stuff out on the Internet - I gave had to teach website evaluation skills to quite tech savy kids....they are so used to google and suchlike that they don't have the research skills which you do need in everyday life and want everthibg instantaneously .....that is not how real life works.

Good points, and I was going to add above but didn't get around to it that I don't think tablets should be the sole way kids are taught, they need tactile experiences as well and I don't think we'll be going totally paperless for a very long time.

Part of my excitement for this is that my employer is going to be rolling out a multimedia tablet version of our newspaper that basically will present news in whatever format best suits the story -- whether text, video, photo or audio -- and when you add the "interactive homework games" possibilities, it just seems like this technology is too promising not to use in education.
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Post by Guest Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:38 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Writing on a tablet:

Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? N-trigstylus1

You could probably combine a few of the features of several existing apps, like Kindle Reader (which has a bookmarking feature) and EverNote (which does too many things to mention) into a great note-taking function that could either stand alone as a student's virtual "folder" or be incorporated into each class's app (or apps; no reason to just have one for each subject, particular in higher grade levels).

Have to say Ben, took a quick look at that and thought we were back to the slate and chalk lol

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Post by Guest Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:45 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I've been reading a few articles about this, and I have to come down on the tablet side, for a number of reasons. The biggest is that I think tablets have the ability to be effective educational tools in ways that print books will never achieve -- integrating text, animation, audio and game-like exercises into a single app.

Some people worry about the expense, and it's an issue, but that seems like it creates a huge market for a rugged, child-friendly tablet that can be used for, say, up to 10 years. Or even help in the push for modular mobile devices that can be continuously repaired rather than replaced. Imagine the difference between science instructional materials on a 10-year-old tablet that can be updated on the fly vs. a 10-year-old science textbook. When Pluto was demoted, how many millions of textbooks became instantly wrong? Whereas on a tablet, that information could be updated with a few keystrokes. Educational apps can also be continuously updated with free-for-educational-purposes material from a variety of sources, like YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/user/teachers

I think using the tablet itself would be educational, getting kids ready for a world in which they'll be expected to be able to use mobile devices on the job. I use my smartphone for a work-related task nearly every single day (including weekends).

There are other issues, such as heavy backpacks full of textbooks being unhealthy for kids to lug around, where a tablet could weigh under a kilogram and 3,500 e-books weighs the same as a single molecule of DNA (a tidbit I picked up in my readings on the topic).

Of course, some of the cons include the fact that not all students have Wi-Fi access at home, the fact that tablets are popular targets for theft, the potential for tablets to be abused ... But I think the same economic factors that are driving down the price of tablets themselves could help on things like making sure the tablets have a 3G connection so there's no need for Wi-Fi, etc.

What do you think?
No god i hope not
A couple of reasons spring to mind
1. study`s are showing that higher levels of blue light from devices adversely affect mood and sleep patterns
2. The distraction from the lessons IE poor little Johnny sitting browsing the internet during lessons

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Post by eddie Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:43 pm

Two good points KD
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Post by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:49 pm

However ...

Doesn't the technology exist to make a non-glare screen that doesn't cause blue-light problems? I'm thinking of what they use in the Kindle readers, mind you I haven't had one of those since the original ...

And the reality is, students are going to talk and fart around in class no matter what.
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Post by Guest Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:16 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:However ...

Doesn't the technology exist to make a non-glare screen that doesn't cause blue-light problems? I'm thinking of what they use in the Kindle readers, mind you I haven't had one of those since the original ...

And the reality is, students are going to talk and fart around in class no matter what.
glare and light frequency are not the same
Ben
Glare is from reflected light
And frequency determines the color of that light in the spectrum ...i am open to being wrong on that but don`t think i am

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Post by Guest Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:17 pm

Glare (vision) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glare_(vision)
Glare is difficulty seeing in the presence of bright light such as direct or reflected sunlight or artificial light

devices transmit light

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Post by veya_victaous Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:03 am

yes and no, it is more complex that that. Simple Ipads not really very useful as the applications are really just games. If you are talking one of the laptop like convertibles then they have potential but there is quite a bit that you need to upgrade first before they are useful.

you need the network infrastructure to support that number of devices, you need servers and the the education software. and there are other tools like Smartboards that interact with other devices allowing great education options

we are already moving towards that here, so far the results are good.
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Post by jaded fox Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:01 am

I would say that the lap tops should stay in the classrooms and there should be loan library for the traditional textbooks. If the kids do have wifi access at home then the parents should put a deposit down on the tablet before the child is allowed to take it home on loan.
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Post by Ben Reilly Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:27 am

Here's an interesting look at glare and eye-strain: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/do-e-readers-cause-eye-strain/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Seems that progress is continuously being made in making them easier on the eye, but I don't know about the issue KD noted before regarding sleep patterns.

I don't know, maybe full replacement is going to take longer than a futurist like me would prefer, but I think it will happen. One factor I didn't mention before that could certainly help is the move toward ubiquitous Wi-Fi.
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Post by veya_victaous Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:48 am

@Fox
actually we just give them a netbook, they get it for the last 4 years of school and they get to keep it at the end.  

it is actually cheaper than buying textbooks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Education_Revolution
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Post by Guest Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:30 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Here's an interesting look at glare and eye-strain: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/do-e-readers-cause-eye-strain/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Seems that progress is continuously being made in making them easier on the eye, but I don't know about the issue KD noted before regarding sleep patterns.

I don't know, maybe full replacement is going to take longer than a futurist like me would prefer, but I think it will happen. One factor I didn't mention before that could certainly help is the move toward ubiquitous Wi-Fi.
I also had no idea but sky news did a piece about a month or so

Blue light has a dark side

Light at night is bad for your health, and exposure to blue light emitted by electronics and energy-efficient lightbulbs may be especially so.

Until the advent of artificial lighting, the sun was the major source of lighting, and people spent their evenings in (relative) darkness. Now, in much of the world, evenings are illuminated, and we take our easy access to all those lumens pretty much for granted.

But we may be paying a price for basking in all that light. At night, light throws the body's biological clock—the circadian rhythm—out of whack. Sleep suffers. Worse, research shows that it may contribute to the causation of cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and obesity.

But not all colors of light have the same effect. Blue wavelengths—which are beneficial during daylight hours because they boost attention, reaction times, and mood—seem to be the most disruptive at night. And the proliferation of electronics with screens, as well as energy-efficient lighting, is increasing our exposure to blue wavelengths, especially after sundown.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Health_Letter/2012/May/blue-light-has-a-dark-side/

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Post by Ben Reilly Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:39 am

Probably has a lot to do with my insomnia. And with why I'm so disgustingly fat.

But hey, bitches love me ...
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Post by veya_victaous Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:44 am

@op
Well a 10 year old tablet is no worse than a 10 year old textbook... both pretty useless  Cool 

Information changes most text books are only good for a few years anyway, Text book manufacturer have actually caused their own down fall. You see Text books are ridiculously expensive and If you are buying for a school system (so say here we get about 60,000 a year) you have huge bargaining power and can get the hardware for approx 50% of the retail cost. because software can get site and enterprise licenses you can literally end up with a netbook with all the texts needed for LESS than the cost of the textbooks alone, and you can still use the Netbook for so many more things let alone the interactive and internet driven lessons that you can do.

Honestly I you're nations education system is not moving this way you are gonna be in trouble Australia and Asia are already moving down this path and the benefits are such that I can only see us get more heavily computer orientated.

I would point out I have been Literally Doing this (educational technology) for over 4 years now.
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Post by Ben Reilly Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:50 am

veya_victaous wrote:@op
Well a 10 year old tablet is no worse than a 10 year old textbook... both pretty useless  Cool 

Information changes most text books are only good for a few years anyway, Text book manufacturer have actually caused their own down fall. You see Text books are ridiculously expensive and If you are buying for a school system (so say here we get about 60,000 a year) you have huge bargaining power and can get the hardware for approx 50% of the retail cost. because software can get site and enterprise licenses you can literally end up with a netbook with all the texts needed for LESS than the cost of the textbooks alone, and you can still use the Netbook for so many more things let alone the interactive and internet driven lessons that you can do.

Honestly I you're nations education system is not moving this way you are gonna be in trouble Australia and Asia are already moving down this path and the benefits are such that I can only see us get more heavily computer orientated.

I would point out I have been Literally Doing this (educational technology) for over 4 years now.

The future (maybe):



I'm just thinking, if it can be done with a phone, surely it could apply (maybe more easily) to tablets.
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Post by jaded fox Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:59 pm

veya_victaous wrote:@Fox
actually we just give them a netbook, they get it for the last 4 years of school and they get to keep it at the end.  

it is actually cheaper than buying textbooks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Education_Revolution

I like that idea. It also would be a heck of a lot easier to carry than the 50 lbs (Yes I weighed my pack) of text books I had to lug home.
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Post by veya_victaous Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:39 pm

@ben
I think the modular stuff is definitely possible, it would not be good for Schools or Corporations though as to efficiently maintain a large fleet standardising in varying degrees is required.

Plus never underestimate how much a teenager will attempt to do naughty things with whatever you give them  affraid affraid affraid  locked down is often for their own good.  Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes 

the cost is really negligible in terms of it is equal to or less than the cost of paper text books anyway
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Post by Cass Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:01 pm

jaded fox wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:@Fox
actually we just give them a netbook, they get it for the last 4 years of school and they get to keep it at the end.  

it is actually cheaper than buying textbooks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Education_Revolution

I like that idea. It also would be a heck of a lot easier to carry than the 50 lbs (Yes I weighed my pack) of text books I had to lug home.

seems a good idea but what about the kids who misuse it, keep breaking it etc....cause it will happen....there is only so much money in the pot.
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Post by Guest Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:48 pm

Cass wrote:
jaded fox wrote:

I like that idea. It also would be a heck of a lot easier to carry than the 50 lbs (Yes I weighed my pack) of text books I had to lug home.  

seems a good idea but what about the kids who misuse it,  keep breaking it etc....cause it will happen....there is only so much money in the pot.
Ok i have given it some thought and cass makes a valid point re cost ect

But hears a solution

Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? Index13

The need for them to be portable is unnecessary
A cheap USB stick and a USB port would all you would need
Work and data can be stored on the usb stick so the student can use it at home and synced with the main school server when you use it on the class workstation

and its only a few years away
Researchers designing and testing the ‘classroom of the future’ have found that multi-touch, multi-user desks can boost skills in mathematics.

New results from a 3-year project working with over 400 pupils, mostly 8-10 year olds, show that collaborative learning increases both fluency and flexibility in maths. It also shows that using an interactive ‘smart’ desk can have benefits over doing mathematics on paper.

Using multi-touch desks in the new classroom, the children were able to work together in new ways to solve and answer questions and problems using inventive solutions. Seeing what your friends are doing, and being able to fully participate in group activities, offers new ways of working in class, the researchers say.

The ‘Star Trek classroom’ could also help learning and teaching in other subjects.
Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? Northn10

https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/newsitem/?itemno=15991

if you want to see the future watch star trek ....or and good scfi  ::D::

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Post by Guest Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:18 pm

eddie wrote:I see all your points and love my iPad and can see the benefits and merits of children using one....., BUT!!

I'm still old-fashioned!!! I like the pen and paper approach. I like the paper and the books.

If we went the way of the tablet, don't you think that in years to come, we'd forget how to write?

I agree. Someone suggested to me that teaching writing was useless! Can you imagine a future where, when and if there's a power outage, no-one could even write a message or give any instructions? What a disaster - reminds me of the old HG Wells Time Machine film when he goes to the future and the old library books crumble to dust and people can't read or write.

Anyway, isn't having a tablet and access to the net all the time like having an exam paper with all the answers written on it?

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Post by Guest Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:32 pm

Tesstacious wrote:
eddie wrote:I see all your points and love my iPad and can see the benefits and merits of children using one....., BUT!!

I'm still old-fashioned!!! I like the pen and paper approach. I like the paper and the books.

If we went the way of the tablet, don't you think that in years to come, we'd forget how to write?

I agree.  Someone suggested to me that teaching writing was useless!  Can you imagine a future where, when and if there's a power outage, no-one could even write a message or give any instructions?  What a disaster - reminds me of the old HG Wells Time Machine film when he goes to the future and the old library books crumble to dust and people can't read or write.

Anyway, isn't having a tablet and access to the net all the time like having an exam paper with all the answers written on it?

Now that's a very good point.

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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:12 pm

There could be a number of ways around that problem, though. Teachers could have an app that puts their classroom tablets into "exam mode" which blocks internet access until it's reset. Or, they could just take the exams on paper and pass the tablets to the front, put them in/under their desk, etc.
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Post by eddie Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:48 pm

Tesstacious wrote:
eddie wrote:I see all your points and love my iPad and can see the benefits and merits of children using one....., BUT!!

I'm still old-fashioned!!! I like the pen and paper approach. I like the paper and the books.

If we went the way of the tablet, don't you think that in years to come, we'd forget how to write?

I agree.  Someone suggested to me that teaching writing was useless!  Can you imagine a future where, when and if there's a power outage, no-one could even write a message or give any instructions?  What a disaster - reminds me of the old HG Wells Time Machine film when he goes to the future and the old library books crumble to dust and people can't read or write.

Anyway, isn't having a tablet and access to the net all the time like having an exam paper with all the answers written on it?

God Tess! Can you imagine??
People will talk about the bird,like it was some strange and silly object! We will be ridiculed!
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Post by eddie Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:50 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:There could be a number of ways around that problem, though. Teachers could have an app that puts their classroom tablets into "exam mode" which blocks internet access until it's reset. Or, they could just take the exams on paper and pass the tablets to the front, put them in/under their desk, etc.

What if the internet goes down or the aliens eat all the electricity?

Yes siree bob! They'll all want to borrow a bloody pencil then!!!!

I shall open a pencil shop.  Cool 
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Post by veya_victaous Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:09 pm

Cass wrote:
jaded fox wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:@Fox
actually we just give them a netbook, they get it for the last 4 years of school and they get to keep it at the end.  

it is actually cheaper than buying textbooks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Education_Revolution

I like that idea. It also would be a heck of a lot easier to carry than the 50 lbs (Yes I weighed my pack) of text books I had to lug home.  

seems a good idea but what about the kids who misuse it,  keep breaking it etc....cause it will happen....there is only so much money in the pot.

they were each allocated $100 for repairs beyond warranty (Which is about 1 screen, the most likely thing) Huge Bargaining power meant that we could negotiate a 4 year warranty deal so Most stuff was covered for the time they are at school.

Junior grades still just use shared devices etc
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Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? Empty Re: Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets?

Post by veya_victaous Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:13 pm

Korban_Dallas wrote:
Cass wrote:
jaded fox wrote:

I like that idea. It also would be a heck of a lot easier to carry than the 50 lbs (Yes I weighed my pack) of text books I had to lug home.  

seems a good idea but what about the kids who misuse it,  keep breaking it etc....cause it will happen....there is only so much money in the pot.
Ok i have given it some thought and cass makes a valid point re cost ect

But hears a solution

Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? Index13

The need for them to be portable is unnecessary
A cheap USB stick and a USB port would all you would need
Work and data can be stored on the usb stick so the student can use it at home and synced with the main school server when you use it on the class workstation

and its only a few years away
Researchers designing and testing the ‘classroom of the future’ have found that multi-touch, multi-user desks can boost skills in mathematics.

New results from a 3-year project working with over 400 pupils, mostly 8-10 year olds, show that collaborative learning increases both fluency and flexibility in maths. It also shows that using an interactive ‘smart’ desk can have benefits over doing mathematics on paper.

Using multi-touch desks in the new classroom, the children were able to work together in new ways to solve and answer questions and problems using inventive solutions. Seeing what your friends are doing, and being able to fully participate in group activities, offers new ways of working in class, the researchers say.

The ‘Star Trek classroom’ could also help learning and teaching in other subjects.
Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? Northn10

https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/newsitem/?itemno=15991

if you want to see the future watch star trek ....or and good scfi  ::D::

we have already got these in a lot of classrooms and are pushing to have them in ALL



It's not Star trek it is Australia  pirat  pirat  pirat  pirat 
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Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? Empty Re: Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets?

Post by veya_victaous Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:27 pm

Tesstacious wrote:
eddie wrote:I see all your points and love my iPad and can see the benefits and merits of children using one....., BUT!!

I'm still old-fashioned!!! I like the pen and paper approach. I like the paper and the books.

If we went the way of the tablet, don't you think that in years to come, we'd forget how to write?

I agree.  Someone suggested to me that teaching writing was useless!  Can you imagine a future where, when and if there's a power outage, no-one could even write a message or give any instructions?  What a disaster - reminds me of the old HG Wells Time Machine film when he goes to the future and the old library books crumble to dust and people can't read or write.

Anyway, isn't having a tablet and access to the net all the time like having an exam paper with all the answers written on it?

And that is why Education needs to change.. We HAVE more knowledge in our pocket than any human has ever had access to before in the history of humanity. We don't need to fight it, we need to make the most of the opportunities this presents. the skill needed NOW is not remember stuff you got a little box in your pocket that does that better than you ever could so the skill needed now is how to get the most out of that access to information, how to disseminate information and judge sources and reliability of information. For rather than knowing the exact dates and detail of history you just need to know there was an event that you can put into a search engine. The needs of tomorrow are different form the needs of yesterday we should be preparing children for what is to come not what has pasted.

Power stuff  :aspffftas:  to live on space station etc (inevitable advancement of our species) we will need to have Constant reliable power or we will die, so we already getting to the point where uninterrupted power supply is going to be reliable.

and you write on tablets with with a pointer the same way you do a pen  Suspect the skill wont disappear it just will change. I doubt you normally write with a Quill but if needed you probably could  Wink 
If anything the keyboard as we know it is more likely to disappear (not for a while yet) as touch screens and things like the kinetic make 'organic' input possible and it is still easier to pick up for new generations than keyboards.
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Post by veya_victaous Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:08 am

found Simpsons gif of what i think is one of the best piece of tech I work with

Smart Boards

Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? Ng0I5UA
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Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? Empty Re: Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets?

Post by eddie Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:47 pm

Smart boards are brilliant
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Post by nicko Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:19 pm

I prefer slate and a piece of chalk, much cheaper.
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Post by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:35 pm

Simple answer to the op is no, and for many reasons.
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Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets? Empty Re: Should Schools Phase Out Textbooks in Favor of Tablets?

Post by veya_victaous Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:13 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Simple answer to the op is no, and for many reasons.

take Bart's advice...

or cant you read???
you are not making a very good argument for having people 'educated', to use the term loosely, in the same archaic and primitive way as you tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue
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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:47 pm

I think whether it's tablets that replace them or not, textbooks will someday no longer be used. In general we're just moving past the need for paper writing. It's just like how there are more people reading the news than ever, but fewer and fewer reading newspapers.
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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:23 am

The so called 'archaic and primitive' methods of education, although only a few decades old, are tried, tested and proven to produce higher standards and results.



There are many reasons to keep text books.
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Post by veya_victaous Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:53 am

@TM
no they are not, maybe in the Archaic and Primitive UK.

when teachers are trained to use the new tech it shows to be dramatically better.
the issue in the most of the US states where they have deployed tech is that they don't train the teachers at the same time. not only that but the actual boards or tablets are just part of an entire system and since the rest is not visible they don;t bother funding it. I have already been employed for over 5 years working on the system for my state. to put in perspective we have over 3000 Curriculum specific pieces of software. just putting the tablet or laptop out there wont help you need to make the programs that replace the books too.

They are not a few decades old they are based on centuries old methodology of repetition that was developed when 'education' was memorize the bible.
So a few decades ago it got switched to times tables and Shakespeare still the same obsolete method of repetition.
Completely pointless when we carry smart phones, the new methodology for teaching is to teach children how to find and dissect information, the use of reason, logic and analysis and determine the validity of information. If you had been taught that then you wouldn't post half the 'supporting' links that you do. You would know why the guy in the youtube videos you post is stupid.

a teacher today should not be a silly as the teachers when i was at school that said 'you wont always be carrying a calculator' today in 2015 we know that we have access to more information through a little handheld device we have in our pocket than was available at Harvard, Yale and Oxford combined just 1 generation ago, and by next generation they probably wont even need to carry the thing in their pocket they will just be connected and the amount of information will be even vaster.

Progress Tommy you cant stop it. Wink
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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:16 am

Tech is expensive and superfluous when it only shows information that is already available in book form.



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Post by Ben Reilly Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:24 am

Yeah, it's also crucial that children are not only taught how to use technology, but that they're taught how to educate themselves so they can continuously acquire the new skills needed to adapt to job changes. I'd say at least half of what I do at my job is nothing like what newspaper journalists did at their jobs in 1996, when I got my degree.

@Tommy -- books become outdated quickly, cannot be updated and any mistake printed is reproduced millions of times.
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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:44 am

Most of fundamental educational content remains the same.



Maths, English, history, science, biology, geography, etc...



It is teachers who are supposed to have a firm grasp of their respective subjects and who are charged with the responsibility of passing on this knowledge and explaining the understanding.



The costs of new tech in classrooms is enormous and unnecessary As it only shows the same information that can And is already provided by cheap and existing methods.
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Post by veya_victaous Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:58 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Tech is expensive and superfluous when it only shows information that is already available in book form.




LOL

umm actually per student it cost about 70% to give them a netbook with the applications over textbooks
Text book publishers have been routing the system for decades so it was really easy for technocrats to undercut them.

You have no idea Tommy and I am A professional in Education Technology.
Almost every textbook is out of date before a student even reads it Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes they cost a lot more (up to 10 times the price) than the digital version
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Post by veya_victaous Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:02 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Most of fundamental educational content remains the same.



Maths, English, history, science, biology, geography, etc...



It is teachers who are supposed to have a firm grasp of their respective subjects and who are charged with the responsibility of passing on this knowledge and explaining the understanding.



The costs of new tech in classrooms is enormous and unnecessary As it only shows the same information that can And is already provided by cheap and existing methods.

NOT a single point you posted is actually true.

And teachers are not paid enough to know that much they need to get the information for the curriculum from somewhere and I can make it available to every student in the state (about half a million) in about 3 hours, for a fraction of the cost of a paper text book without even considering the logistics of getting a physical item to schools.
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Post by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:16 am

The basics never change and we already have the books...


Old are easily and cheaply replaced.



Education is learning knowledge... not about having to have an expensive shiny thing to learn it through...



1+1 still = 2


Copper is still Cu on The periodic table.


Teaching someone how to push buttons on a calculator is different from teaching someone proper maths...
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Post by Ben Reilly Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:18 am

A modular tablet could save a lot on lifetime costs. Considering the expense of textbooks that Veya noted, that budget could easily pay for the distribution of tablets, which would only require maintenance and occasional replacement if they were ruggedized and modular.

Plus the interactive learning possibilities are enormous. Kids learning to read could tap difficult words and have them spoken, defined, used in example sentences, etc.

People talk about the wear and tear (and hacking attempts) that would be involved in issuing tablets to students, but have the parents sign a form that says they could be held liable for the cost of replacement or repair and see how well those tablets are taken care of ...
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Post by veya_victaous Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:41 am

Tommy Monk wrote:The basics never change and we already have the books...
WRONG basics change all the time, literally every single year there is a change to the Core curriculum

Old are easily and cheaply replaced.
NO expensive and difficult to replace THAT IS FACT no if or but, I make 6 figures a year Because it is cheaper to do it with technology. literally even after paying me and dozens of other high level techies it is still Cheaper BECAUSE TEXTBOOKS are expensive and difficult to replace and Difficult to get into schools while the information is still accurate


Education is learning knowledge... not about having to have an expensive shiny thing to learn it through...
Exactly and the current system that uses primitive scraps of shredded trees is about Memorization NOT knowledge



1+1 still = 2
Your phone could have done that a lot faster than you and thousands of dollars was spent to get you to memories timetables that can be done faster and more accurately by a $5 machine (let alone can do vastly more complex maths too)
The reason why we need this tech is so that in the future no human being is as uneducated as yourself




Copper is still Cu on The periodic table.
Again you think memorizing is educating IT IS NOT


Teaching someone how to push buttons on a calculator is different from teaching someone proper maths...
YES because YOU DO NOT EVEN know what learning is you still think the waste of time you did a school made you learn.. You Still don't do proper maths You memorized a tiny amount of equations INSTEAD of being taught how maths works


thank you for demonstrating Why the education system need massive reform (already well underway in Australia, Japan, Korea etc)
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Post by veya_victaous Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:43 am

@TM
please do not upgrade so Australia can declare the UK Terra Nullius next century.
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