Fears about immigration are ‘racist’, says Conservative minister Anna Soubry

First topic message reminder :

Some people who raise concerns about immigration are “frankly racist”, a Conservative minister said yesterday.

In remarks which were immediately disowned by Downing Street, Anna Soubry, a defence minister, said that while most people understood that immigrants played a “hugely important” role in Britain others had “prejudices”. She cited her own constituency in Nottinghamshire which she said “didn’t have a problem with immigrants” to suggest some voters were using the issue as an excuse to express intolerance.

“People who come and see me in my surgery say, ‘I’m really worried about immigration’. You say ‘Really, why? We don’t have a problem with immigrants.’

“When you explain all that to them they get it. Not all of it. Some people have prejudices, some people are frankly racist, but there are many who just don’t know the argument.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fears-about-immigration-are-racist-says-conservative-minister-anna-soubry-9468323.html

And that's from a Tory minister

Irn Bru wrote:

scrat wrote:Energy is a subject under some considerable research, fortunately for us in Blighty we've got coal, tonnes of it, so it's simply hydrogenation.

Nope, immigrants are coming here to work and pay for our pensions, no point whining about it!

Correct. Just a pity that Thatcher's henchmen filled in the mine shafts, flooding them and burying all the mining equipment never to be used again. They did salvage some equipment which they sold to South Africa a country that she supported right through the apartheid regime.

Disgraceful

The damage inflicted on the British people by the tories and milk snatch in particular on the British miner, will live on, in infamy for years to come.

They'll be digging it up again for sure!

scrat wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Correct. Just a pity that Thatcher's henchmen filled in the mine shafts, flooding them and burying all the mining equipment never to be used again. They did salvage some equipment which they sold to South Africa a country that she supported right through the apartheid regime.

Disgraceful

The damage inflicted on the British people by the tories and milk snatch in particular on the British miner, will live on, in infamy for years to come.

They'll be digging it up again for sure!

Will the hard pressed taxpayer have to subsidise that digging

again?


  

BigAndy9 wrote:

scrat wrote:
The damage inflicted on the British people by the tories and milk snatch in particular on the British miner, will live on, in infamy for years to come.

They'll be digging it up again for sure!

Will the hard pressed taxpayer have to subsidise that digging

again?


  

Yeah,,,funny stuff Andy eh?...sadly many a good father, husband, brother, uncle and friend died because of her, no..she never held a blade to their kneck, but that was all these men knew..many too old to learn new skills chef.

victorisnotamused wrote:dream on scrat...dream on...

where are they going to find the billions needed to merely sink a mine shaft....

still I like your thinking..immigrant miners...no need to worry about H&S SO WE CAN LEAVE IT TO PRIVATE ENTERPRISE TO SPEND THE MONEY...OR NOT.....

we cant manufacture....no good enough heavy industry left

nope...making liquid fuel from coal is expensive...both in terms of plant and process...and will reap the wrath of the climate change brigade...

dont forget the stinking plants of the old "rexco" days are gone and no longer acceptable....

"where are they going to find the billions needed to merely sink a mine shaft" the same billions used to bail out the banks I guess.

The process will be used as it's a process that works, it produces synthetic fuel, sorted.

Do you honestly believe that anything can get in the way of globalisation?, immigration is a fact of life, get over it, stand back and take a bigger look at the picture.

Joy Division wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:JD, a well deserted criticism of some is not a criticism of all.

What should I do Tommy?..criticise the decent immigrants trying to find their feet who have done us no harm?..
Or every Muslim in a Britain, even the ones who lay their way, pay their taxes and live a peaceful existence?..who could be be the best of Muslim lads who will play footy with you, have a goof on the play station with you?...who could be your caring neighbour...who only wishes to live in peace with his family.
It could even have been you or me Tommy...looking for a chance to live in peace and a
safety with our family..without being judged and without prejudice.
Come on Tommy.

Are you still agreeing with me as you did on my earlier post above, or now just accusing me of being against every immigrant/foreigner and/or muslim again?
If it is the latter then you obviously either misunderstand me and my posts or haven't read them properly.
Still waiting for you to answer.....
You asked....

Now let's say a 5th generation Pakistani family who have obviously lived here for years, when do and should they be considered British?...Or should that never happen even though they have contributed in taxes here all their lives and caused nobody any trouble?

I replied....

Someone should be considered totally British when they have been here for long enough to totally understand, act, feel and be totally British.
Being born here helps a lot, but doesn't guarantee this.
As We have seen 'British' born showing loyalties elsewhere, and acting ways so obviously non British and against Britain and British ways.
I could live in Scotland for decades, work, pay taxes, never cause any trouble, but when would I be considered properly Scottish...???
Can I ever be classed as properly Scottish when my loyalties remain elsewhere...???

So.... what do you think...??

Joy Division wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

scrat wrote:
The damage inflicted on the British people by the tories and milk snatch in particular on the British miner, will live on, in infamy for years to come.

They'll be digging it up again for sure!

Will the hard pressed taxpayer have to subsidise that digging

again?


  

Yeah,,,funny stuff Andy eh?...sadly many a good father, husband, brother, uncle and friend died because of her, no..she never held a blade to their kneck, but that was all these men knew..many too old to learn new skills chef.

Dead right JD. Dumped on the dole and left to live in areas that were left to decline into terminal decay with little or no hope for the future.

Gone were the days when these men kept the home fires burning but as they were no longer of any use they can just rot away.

A scandal.

Plus, just to clear up a matter of historical fact, it was the previous labour govt who started the withdrawal of free milk for schools and they closed down more coal mines too....!
Look it up if you don't believe me.... you will see that again I only speak the truth...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:Plus, just to clear up a matter of historical fact, it was the previous labour govt who started the withdrawal of free milk for schools and they closed down more coal mines too....!
Look it up if you don't believe me.... you will see that again I only speak the truth...!!!

Not true. Labour never stopped free milk for kids. It was Thatcher that did that when she made it illegal and against the law to give it to them.

The number of pits closed doesn't tell the story. The Tories put more miners on the dole than Labour ever did and that's a fact

More lies and spin.....

Tommy Monk wrote:More lies and spin.....

Prove me wrong.

Tommy Monk wrote:More lies and spin.....

Your dead wrong on this Tommy,,I even know this about the milk,,,

Thatcher stopped the milk for Primary school kids and even told local councils they would be in hot water if they issued it...


Labour only stopped it for secondary schools, but it would be provided if asked for,( I think) but Labour did not warn councils not to supply it to secondary schools.


I may be a bit out here, but not too much...it was definitely Thatcher who stopped the milk, for primary schools too.

Joy Division wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:More lies and spin.....

Your dead wrong on this Tommy,,I even know this about the milk,,,

Thatcher stopped the milk for Primary school kids and even told local councils they would be in hot water if they issued it...


Labour only stopped it for secondary schools, but it would be provided if asked for,( I think) but Labour did not warn councils not to supply it to secondary schools.


I may be a bit out here, but not too much...it was definitely Thatcher who stopped the milk, for primary schools too.

That's the way it was JD. She made it against the law to give free milk to the kids and that's a fact.

Any way. That's me for tonight. Cya tomorrow.

Irn Bru wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


Your dead wrong on this Tommy,,I even know this about the milk,,,

Thatcher stopped the milk for Primary school kids and even told local councils they would be in hot water if they issued it...


Labour only stopped it for secondary schools, but it would be provided if asked for,( I think) but Labour did not warn councils not to supply it to secondary schools.


I may be a bit out here, but not too much...it was definitely Thatcher who stopped the milk, for primary schools too.

That's the way it was JD. She made it against the law to give free milk to the kids and that's a fact.

Any way. That's me for tonight. Cya tomorrow.

Ok Irn, chow the now!

Joy Division wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:More lies and spin.....

Your dead wrong on this Tommy,,I even know this about the milk,,,
Thatcher stopped the milk for Primary school kids and even told local councils they would be in hot water if they issued it...
Labour only stopped it for secondary schools, but it would be provided if asked for,( I think) but Labour did not warn councils not to supply it to secondary schools.
I may be a bit out here, but not too much...it was definitely Thatcher who stopped the milk, for primary schools too.

So now an admission that the free milk was stopped for schools with older children.....


While they also had the plan in place to phase out for younger children too.



Do a bit of research and then come back with evidence that It was all thatchers fault.



And more coal mines closed under labour than under Tory.


Can also be easily checked to BE true. We had this argument on flap ages ago when Scrat popped up with his typical leftie labour mantra of lies and spin, and when proved then he ran away. But still keeps popping up with the same bullshit regardless.


It's part of The leftie brainwashing to keep spouting the same old lies and spin waffle mantras.


But when you start thinking for yourself and read between the lines, you can clearly see that It is just pure lies and spin bullshit.




I do not lie, and I hate being lied to.



Check out the facts, what I say is always true.

Tommy Monk wrote:So now an admission that the free milk was stopped for schools with older children......

School milk was never stopped for older school children. Central government funding was withdrawn due to lack of demand froim older children but local authorities were still allowed to supply it if they wanted to by drawing on the rate support grant that the could apply for. Thatcher banned that and made it illegal for them do so, both for the older children and the younger one's. She banned it.

Tommy Monk wrote:While they also had the plan in place to phase out for younger children too..

Prove it....

Tommy Monk wrote:Do a bit of research and then come back with evidence that It was all thatchers fault..

I did

Tommy Monk wrote:And more coal mines closed under labour than under Tory..

That's a lie.

Under Labour -375
Under Conservative - 535
 

Tommy Monk wrote:Can also be easily checked to BE true. We had this argument on flap ages ago when Scrat popped up with his typical leftie labour mantra of lies and spin, and when proved then he ran away. But still keeps popping up with the same bullshit regardless..

I did check- you didn't

Tommy Monk wrote:It's part of The leftie brainwashing to keep spouting the same old lies and spin waffle mantras..

That's Tory property your sprawling on.

Tommy Monk wrote:But when you start thinking for yourself and read between the lines, you can clearly see that It is just pure lies and spin bullshit..

You should read between the lines then to get at the truth.

Tommy Monk wrote:I do not lie, and I hate being lied to.



Check out the facts, what I say is always true.

I wouldn't say you are lying Tommy - just misguided, misinformed and following orders from your masters.[/quote]

Would you like to talk about her welfare Bill as well? The one where she ended the mandatory right for councils and education authorities to provide school meals to the pupils thereby opening it up to privatisation?

"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968 and then in 1971, Lady Thatcher, who was education secretary under Sir Edward Heath, ended free school milk for children over the age of seven.
Although the move gave her the nickname "Thatcher, Thatcher, milk-snatcher" and cemented the public view that she would ruthlessly cut spending, documents released recently suggest she had actually fought to save the grants. She was overruled by Sir Edward.
Despite the cuts many LEAs continued to provide free milk and in 1977 the EEC School Milk Subsidy Scheme was introduced to allow them to claim extra funding for secondary and primary milk sales
In 1978, further concessions to the Left were made and free milk was provided for children between seven and 12 from families dependent upon Income Support.
The 1980 Education Act added a further £25 million in EEC subsidies to LEAs to help subsidise milk in schools although six years later as part of an amendment they were told it could only apply to the very lowest income families..."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1507023/Thatcher-the-snatcher-may-not-have-been-wrong.html


"...These are the figures for the sharply declining number of coal mines open each year under those Labour Governments.
1964           545


1965   ..      504


1966   ..      442


1967   ..      406


1968   ..      330


1969   ..      304
 



1974   ..      250


1975   ..      241


1976  ..      239


1977   ..      231


1978  ..      223


1979  ..      219  
These are the figures for the Thatcher years:
1979  ..      219


1980   ..      213


1981  ..      200


1982   ..      191


1983   ..      170


1984  ..      169


1985  ..      133


1986   ..      110


1987   ..      94


1988   ..      86


1989   ..      73


1990   ..      65 ..."



"...Based on these figures from the government about 290 mines closed under Wilson in all his time in office, and about 160 under Thatcher.  Because the figures are based on year end totals of pits operating, it’s not possible to be precise, but the relative scale of those numbers is clear.  So why isn’t Wilson execrated by the Left for his part in the decline of coal mining?..."

http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2013/04/wilson-closed-more-coal-mines-than-thatcher.html



And......

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1497/thatcher_s_achievements_will_long_outlive_the_spite_of_sheffield_s_sons_and_daughters

Tommy Monk wrote:
"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968 and then in 1971, Lady Thatcher, who was education secretary under Sir Edward Heath, ended free school milk for children over the age of seven.
Although the move gave her the nickname "Thatcher, Thatcher, milk-snatcher" and cemented the public view that she would ruthlessly cut spending, documents released recently suggest she had actually fought to save the grants. She was overruled by Sir Edward.
Despite the cuts many LEAs continued to provide free milk and in 1977 the EEC School Milk Subsidy Scheme was introduced to allow them to claim extra funding for secondary and primary milk sales
In 1978, further concessions to the Left were made and free milk was provided for children between seven and 12 from families dependent upon Income Support.
The 1980 Education Act added a further £25 million in EEC subsidies to LEAs to help subsidise milk in schools although six years later as part of an amendment they were told it could only apply to the very lowest income families..."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1507023/Thatcher-the-snatcher-may-not-have-been-wrong.html


"...These are the figures for the sharply declining number of coal mines open each year under those Labour Governments.
1964           545


1965   ..      504


1966   ..      442


1967   ..      406


1968   ..      330


1969   ..      304
 



1974   ..      250


1975   ..      241


1976  ..      239


1977   ..      231


1978  ..      223


1979  ..      219  
These are the figures for the Thatcher years:
1979  ..      219


1980   ..      213


1981  ..      200


1982   ..      191


1983   ..      170


1984  ..      169


1985  ..      133


1986   ..      110


1987   ..      94


1988   ..      86


1989   ..      73


1990   ..      65 ..."



"...Based on these figures from the government about 290 mines closed under Wilson in all his time in office, and about 160 under Thatcher.  Because the figures are based on year end totals of pits operating, it’s not possible to be precise, but the relative scale of those numbers is clear.  So why isn’t Wilson execrated by the Left for his part in the decline of coal mining?..."

http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2013/04/wilson-closed-more-coal-mines-than-thatcher.html



And......

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1497/thatcher_s_achievements_will_long_outlive_the_spite_of_sheffield_s_sons_and_daughters

Yeah LEAs in the London area continued to provide free school milk in spite of her ban because she never thought to cover them in her banning act. Councils were still banned from providing free school milk for all ages.

The milk for the sick kids was described by her in the House of Commons as 'medical milk'. What a disgusting term.

Watch this and weep.

Tommy Monk wrote:
"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968 and then in 1971, Lady Thatcher, who was education secretary under Sir Edward Heath, ended free school milk for children over the age of seven.
Although the move gave her the nickname "Thatcher, Thatcher, milk-snatcher" and cemented the public view that she would ruthlessly cut spending, documents released recently suggest she had actually fought to save the grants. She was overruled by Sir Edward.
Despite the cuts many LEAs continued to provide free milk and in 1977 the EEC School Milk Subsidy Scheme was introduced to allow them to claim extra funding for secondary and primary milk sales
In 1978, further concessions to the Left were made and free milk was provided for children between seven and 12 from families dependent upon Income Support.
The 1980 Education Act added a further £25 million in EEC subsidies to LEAs to help subsidise milk in schools although six years later as part of an amendment they were told it could only apply to the very lowest income families..."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1507023/Thatcher-the-snatcher-may-not-have-been-wrong.html


"...These are the figures for the sharply declining number of coal mines open each year under those Labour Governments.
1964           545


1965   ..      504


1966   ..      442


1967   ..      406


1968   ..      330


1969   ..      304
 



1974   ..      250


1975   ..      241


1976  ..      239


1977   ..      231


1978  ..      223


1979  ..      219  
These are the figures for the Thatcher years:
1979  ..      219


1980   ..      213


1981  ..      200


1982   ..      191


1983   ..      170


1984  ..      169


1985  ..      133


1986   ..      110


1987   ..      94


1988   ..      86


1989   ..      73


1990   ..      65 ..."



"...Based on these figures from the government about 290 mines closed under Wilson in all his time in office, and about 160 under Thatcher.  Because the figures are based on year end totals of pits operating, it’s not possible to be precise, but the relative scale of those numbers is clear.  So why isn’t Wilson execrated by the Left for his part in the decline of coal mining?..."

http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2013/04/wilson-closed-more-coal-mines-than-thatcher.html



And......

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1497/thatcher_s_achievements_will_long_outlive_the_spite_of_sheffield_s_sons_and_daughters

And for pit closures.

Tory spin on coal masks fact that 80 per cent of coal jobs were lost under Thatcher

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2013/04/tory-spin-on-coal-masks-fact-that-80-per-cent-of-coal-jobs-were-lost-under-thatcher/

From when the pits were nationalised in 1947 the Tories closed more pits than Labour and that's a fact

I've read that on wiki I think it was Irn, and I'm sure you provided a link in the past too regards to pit closures.

Joy Division wrote:I've  read that on wiki I think it was Irn, and  I'm sure you provided a link in the past too regards to pit closures.

Remember this JD.

1971: Councils defy Thatcher milk ban

Opposition is growing to Education Secretary Margaret Thatcher's plans to end free school milk for children over the age of seven.

The bill received its second reading last night. It was passed by 281 votes to 248, a government majority of 33.

The Conservatives have issued a warning to local authorities not to go ahead with any plans to break the law deliberately.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/15/newsid_4486000/4486571.stm

Chancers

Had your crib sheets from Labour central today Bru. Or are you waiting and posting old lies. Wilson started the removal of school milk liar.

It is well known except it seems by Labour spinners(liars) like you.

Get real Irn Bru lies don't become truths by repetition except perhaps in the minds of dumbos like JD.

Really you are so transparent.

Alright said Fred wrote:Had your crib sheets from Labour central today Bru. Or are you waiting and posting old lies. Wilson started the removal of school milk liar.

It is well known except it seems by Labour spinners(liars) like you.

Get real Irn Bru lies don't become truths by repetition except perhaps in the minds of dumbos like JD.

Really you are so transparent.

Thatcher refering to an earlier question put to her in the House of Commons by Afred Morris....

The point of the hon. Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Alfred Morris) has been raised in a number of papers and by the right hon. Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne Central (Mr. Edward Short)—about a possible discretion for local authorities. There has been a suggestion that the Bill should include a provision to give authorities discretion to continue to supply milk free to those primary school pupils who will no longer receive it, provided that all the expenditure is rate-borne.

Her answer...

I want to put a number of arguments to counter that suggestion. First, money spent from the rates is just as much public expenditure as money spent from 51taxes or a combination of both. Part of the purpose of the Bill is to contain the increase in public expenditure and to switch the destination of some public monies in accordance with new priorities. It would entirely defeat the larger purpose of the White Paper if, having cut down on milk to give more for primary school buildings, family income supplement and so on, and to reduce taxes, one were to put the milk burden back on the rates, thereby increasing total expenditure once again. It is the total public expenditure for which central Government have responsibility.

In other words - piss off they can pay for it.

She banned it - made it unlawful for it to be provided in secondary and primary schools unless they got it from a vending machine.

"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968 and then in 1971, Lady Thatcher, who was education secretary under Sir Edward Heath, ended free school milk for children over the age of seven.
Although the move gave her the nickname "Thatcher, Thatcher, milk-snatcher" and cemented the public view that she would ruthlessly cut spending, documents released recently suggest she had actually fought to save the grants. She was overruled by Sir Edward......"




The article also says that It was EEC directives that dictated the removal......

Tommy Monk wrote:
"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968 and then in 1971, Lady Thatcher, who was education secretary under Sir Edward Heath, ended free school milk for children over the age of seven.
Although the move gave her the nickname "Thatcher, Thatcher, milk-snatcher" and cemented the public view that she would ruthlessly cut spending, documents released recently suggest she had actually fought to save the grants. She was overruled by Sir Edward......"




The article also says that It was EEC directives that dictated the removal......

What a load of bollocks. Here's what she wanted...

And in August 1970, the new Secretary of State for Education responded to a Treasury demand for education cuts in four areas:

Further Education fees
Library book borrowing charges
School meal charges
Free school milk

In principle, the minister who became known for her public-spending cutting zeal once she took power in 1979, appeared concerned at what the public perception of the cuts would be.

Responding to the demands to end free school milk, Mrs Thatcher said: "I think that the complete withdrawal of free milk for our school children would be too drastic a step and would arouse more widespread public antagonism than the saving justifies."

She proposed the compromise, later accepted, that milk would only be available to pupils in nursery and primary schools.

She told the Treasury that this would reduce the proposed cuts by £20m over the four-year life of the government and would free up cash for a new primary school building programme

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/uk_confidential/1095121.stm

She ended up taking it further than that by banning it in primary schools as well and making it illegal for it to be supplied by any council even id they wanted to use the rate support grant to do so..

You did read what she said in the HoC didn't you? She snatched the milk off the bairns and justifiably earned the title 'milk snatcher'.

And...

The article also says that It was EEC directives that dictated the removal......

Irn Bru wrote:

Joy Division wrote:I've  read that on wiki I think it was Irn, and  I'm sure you provided a link in the past too regards to pit closures.

Remember this JD.

1971: Councils defy Thatcher milk ban

Opposition is growing to Education Secretary Margaret Thatcher's plans to end free school milk for children over the age of seven.

The bill received its second reading last night. It was passed by 281 votes to 248, a government majority of 33.

The Conservatives have issued a warning to local authorities not to go ahead with any plans to break the law deliberately.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/15/newsid_4486000/4486571.stm

Chancers

Yeah, I read it again just moments ago, I wouldn't have remembered the exact number of votes or the majority being 33 Irn, its definitely right...

And you have provided Information and facts before when someone tried this argument on...

Thatcher did stop the milk for much smaller bairns than seven Tommy...

Drinky just try to think before you open that gob of yours, Irn is providing stacks of evidence and all you and Tommy can do is claim it's rubbish without even reading the links probably, is that the best you can do then?, just keep claiming it's rubbish and providing no credible evidence yourselves ..or half truths at best?..

Come on man.

You must be getting De-Javu Irn   

Joy Division wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Joy Division wrote:I've  read that on wiki I think it was Irn, and  I'm sure you provided a link in the past too regards to pit closures.

Remember this JD.

1971: Councils defy Thatcher milk ban

Opposition is growing to Education Secretary Margaret Thatcher's plans to end free school milk for children over the age of seven.

The bill received its second reading last night. It was passed by 281 votes to 248, a government majority of 33.

The Conservatives have issued a warning to local authorities not to go ahead with any plans to break the law deliberately.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/15/newsid_4486000/4486571.stm

Chancers

Yeah, I read it again just moments ago, I wouldn't have remembered the exact number of votes or the majority being 33 Irn, its definitely right...

And you  have provided Information and facts before when someone tried this argument on...

Thatcher did stop the milk for much smaller bairns than seven Tommy...

Drinky just try to think before you open that gob of yours, Irn is providing stacks of evidence and all you and Tommy can do is claim it's rubbish without even reading  the links probably, is that the best you can do then?, just keep claiming it's rubbish and providing no credible evidence yourselves ..or half truths at best?..

Come on man.

They can't help it JD. They're driven by their master who they doff their caps to and tug their forelocks. It's pathetic.

And I haven't even started on her welfare bill where she removed the statutory obligation on councils to provide school meals to children and imposed a rise in the price of the meals for councils that continued to keep providing them.
She ushered in privatisation and out went the traditional local school dinner ladies who had looked after our kids for generations with nourishing meals and in came the cafe culture with the like of vending machines selling milk, crisps and bars of chocolate and if they didn't fancy that then they had to bring their own packed lunch.

Incredible that we actually have some people on here that actually defend this.

Irn Bru wrote:

Joy Division wrote:I've  read that on wiki I think it was Irn, and  I'm sure you provided a link in the past too regards to pit closures.

Remember this JD.

1971: Councils defy Thatcher milk ban

Opposition is growing to Education Secretary Margaret Thatcher's plans to end free school milk for children over the age of seven.

The bill received its second reading last night. It was passed by 281 votes to 248, a government majority of 33.

The Conservatives have issued a warning to local authorities not to go ahead with any plans to break the law deliberately.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/15/newsid_4486000/4486571.stm

Chancers

Errrm... no, i guess he doesn't remember it you thick tw4t - he wouldn't have been born in 1971!

I was having my third of a pint of milk when i was 5/6 in 1980 - i remember it well.

And what that has to do with immigration i'll never know.

"...The 1980 Education Act added a further £25 million in EEC subsidies to LEAs to help subsidise milk in schools although six years later as part of an amendment they were told it could only apply to the very lowest income families..."




And in August 1970, the new Secretary of State for Education responded to a Treasury demand for education cuts in four areas:

Further Education fees
Library book borrowing charges
School meal charges
Free school milk

In principle, the minister who became known for her public-spending cutting zeal once she took power in 1979, appeared concerned at what the public perception of the cuts would be.

Responding to the demands to end free school milk, Mrs Thatcher said: "I think that the complete withdrawal of free milk for our school children would be too drastic a step and would arouse more widespread public antagonism than the saving justifies."

She proposed the compromise, later accepted, that milk would be available to pupils in nursery and primary schools.

She told the Treasury that this would reduce the proposed cuts by £20m over the four-year life of the government and would free up cash for a new primary school building programme..."




"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968...."

Tommy Monk wrote:"...The 1980 Education Act added a further £25 million in EEC subsidies to LEAs to help subsidise milk in schools although six years later as part of an amendment they were told it could only apply to the very lowest income families..."




And in August 1970, the new Secretary of State for Education responded to a Treasury demand for education cuts in four areas:

Further Education fees
Library book borrowing charges
School meal charges
Free school milk

In principle, the minister who became known for her public-spending cutting zeal once she took power in 1979, appeared concerned at what the public perception of the cuts would be.

Responding to the demands to end free school milk, Mrs Thatcher said: "I think that the complete withdrawal of free milk for our school children would be too drastic a step and would arouse more widespread public antagonism than the saving justifies."

She proposed the compromise, later accepted, that milk would be available to pupils in nursery and primary schools.

She told the Treasury that this would reduce the proposed cuts by £20m over the four-year life of the government and would free up cash for a new primary school building programme..."




"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968...."

Blimey, are you still trying to defend this woman from banning giving kids free milk at school. You're as bad as her.

The EEC grant was a subsidy to help lower the cost of milk being sold, not to help provide it for free and even then by 1980, free milk for the five to seven-year-olds had also come to an end as well..

And what else you posted shows that she didn’t care about the school children and was only concerned at what the oublic would think of her. And anyway, she went further and stopped it for the primary schools except for ‘medical milk’ that is. What a disgusting term that is.

Labour didn’t stop local councils from supplying free school milk to secondary schools if they wanted to and they were entitled to claim it against a rate support grant if they wished. Thatcher banned that way out and made it illegal and warned councils not to try and break the law deliberately.

Good grief!!! making it illegal to give kids some milk - it just really doesn't get any worse than that.

Unbelievable that you are actually defending this.

"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968...."



Don't hear you lefties talking about that.....


Maybe because 'Wilson the milk snatcher' doesn't make a nice little rhyme.... or maybe because it was labour that did it....

It really is remarkable just how long this hairy old chestnut has been plodding creakily around forums, and in my own modest way I'm at least partly responsible because I was the one who originally threw into one of the discussions about "Thatcher Milk Snatcher" the fact that the first "snatcher" was, in fact, a minister in the Wilson administration...something which Labour and its supporters had/have always been very unwilling to concede.  

I can't remember whether it was the heath secretary or the education secretary, but whoever it was did it for three main (and perfectly valid) reasons: Firstly, free school milk was an immediate post-war measure designed to counter childhood dietary deficiencies brought about by food rationing, something no longer considered to be necessary by the late 1960s; secondly the sheer volume of waste - milk being returned to the distribution depots because so many children were refusing to drink it - was unsustainable as it could be used only for livestock feed and industrial purposes, and thirdly the escalating cost of subsidising both production and distribution and the not unreasonable expectation of dairy farmers, who were facing big labour and raw material cost increases at the time, for better prices for their product.

Both Wilson (or the relevant minister) and Margaret Thatcher as Education Secretary in the Health administration, used precisely the same method; withdrawal of government funding for the relevant age group (Wilson 10 to 17 years and Thatcher primary age).

Now IB is correct in saying that Wilson did not actually make it illegal for councils to continue to provide school milk, but he most certainly deliberately placed the considerable and escalating financial burden on them in the full knowledge that then, as now, they were badly strapped for cash and that any vociferous groups of parents who opposed the measure - as many did - would blame local councillors and not himself and his government.

That's an old Westminster ploy, and both Labour and the Tories have used it quite blatantly over the years; it's known as "getting out from under."

Margaret Thatcher did make it illegal - and her justification was that both national and local government spending had to be curbed as the cash all came from the same source - the taxpayers - and that the government had a duty to bring that about. I think there's one of her quotes about that earlier in this thread.

At the time there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that had Wilson won the election instead of Heath, he would have brought in the next phase of funding withdrawal - for primary age pupils - exactly as Thatcher did three years or so later.

I know this because as farming editor of a newspaper it was my job to know (the farming organisations knew damn well that it was on the Labour agenda and were already lobbying MPs and PPCs about it) and as the husband of a very disgruntled dairy farmer, 'er indoors made damn certain that I was "on message."

So, I don't have to rely on Wiki, Hansard or any other source; I was there and, more importantly from my point of view at least, I was very personally and actively involved and, at the time, could reasonably claim to be something of an authority on the subject...albeit a modest one.

And the fact that it will cut no ice with those here who have far more time and inclination than myself to indulge in manic Googling does leave me, I have to say in advance, totally underwhelmed.

Well said moley.

I'm sure the lefties will carry on denying the truth and will keep on with their nice little rhyme too....


They never let the truth get in the way of a good bit of lies and spin!


It's what they're best at!

Tommy Monk wrote:
"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968 and then in 1971, Lady Thatcher, who was education secretary under Sir Edward Heath, ended free school milk for children over the age of seven.
Although the move gave her the nickname "Thatcher, Thatcher, milk-snatcher" and cemented the public view that she would ruthlessly cut spending, documents released recently suggest she had actually fought to save the grants. She was overruled by Sir Edward......"




The article also says that It was EEC directives that dictated the removal......

I'm not sure what article that was, Tommy, but it's wrong. The UK did not join the EEC until January 1973 and the original Common Agricultural Policy had no mandate over British agricultural or any other UK government policy until post accession other, perhaps, than of an advisory nature.

At the time of the school milk issue, this country was only at the negotiation stage.

A European Directive is a legally-binding instrument and adherence is mandatory on member countries. Since the UK was not a member at the time, any number of European Directives could not have directed government policy.

Maybe I got mixed up, one bit of one article I was reading about it said something about EEC.



The rest of article posted is accurate I believe.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:It really is remarkable just how long this hairy old chestnut has been plodding creakily around forums, and in my own modest way I'm at least partly responsible because I was the one who originally threw into one of the discussions about "Thatcher Milk Snatcher" the fact that the first "snatcher" was, in fact, a minister in the Wilson administration...something which Labour and its supporters had/have always been very unwilling to concede.  

I can't remember whether it was the heath secretary or the education secretary, but whoever it was did it for three main (and perfectly valid) reasons: Firstly, free school milk was an immediate post-war measure designed to counter childhood dietary deficiencies brought about by food rationing, something no longer considered to be necessary by the late 1960s; secondly the sheer volume of waste - milk being returned to the distribution depots because so many children were refusing to drink it - was unsustainable as it could be used only for livestock feed and industrial purposes, and thirdly the escalating cost of subsidising both production and distribution and the not unreasonable expectation of dairy farmers, who were facing big labour and raw material cost increases at the time, for better prices for their product.

Both Wilson (or the relevant minister) and Margaret Thatcher as Education Secretary in the Health administration, used precisely the same method; withdrawal of government funding for the relevant age group (Wilson 10 to 17 years and Thatcher primary age).

Now IB is correct in saying that Wilson did not actually make it illegal for councils to continue to provide school milk, but he most certainly deliberately placed the considerable and escalating financial burden on them in the full knowledge that then, as now, they were badly strapped for cash and that any vociferous groups of parents who opposed the measure - as many did - would blame local councillors and not himself and his government.

That's an old Westminster ploy, and both Labour and the Tories have used it quite blatantly over the years; it's known as "getting out from under."

Margaret Thatcher did make it illegal - and her justification was that both national and local government spending had to be curbed as the cash all came from the same source - the taxpayers - and that the government had a duty to bring that about. I think there's one of her quotes about that earlier in this thread.

At the time there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that had Wilson won the election instead of Heath, he would have brought in the next phase of funding withdrawal - for primary age pupils - exactly as Thatcher did three years or so later.

I know this because as farming editor of a newspaper it was my job to know (the farming organisations knew damn well that it was on the Labour agenda and were already lobbying MPs and PPCs about it) and as the husband of a very disgruntled dairy farmer, 'er indoors made damn certain that I was "on message."

So, I don't have to rely on Wiki, Hansard or any other source; I was there and, more importantly from my point of view at least, I was very personally and actively involved and, at the time, could reasonably claim to be something of an authority on the subject...albeit a modest one.

And the fact that it will cut no ice with those here who have far more time and inclination than myself to indulge in manic Googling does leave me, I have to say in advance, totally underwhelmed.

Well that's a lot of words you have written there Fred but if you wish to do that just to point out that I have been right all along in that Labour still allowed councils to supply free milk using the rate support grant and they did not ban it then fair enough.
And there were no escalating costs in supplying free school milk to secondary schools, indeed it was declining so much that most of it was being flushed away because of a low take up - a position you made clear in previous discussions that we have had on this subject.
And I doubt there would be many complaints from rate payers due to the fact that the total bill for a year over the entire country had dropped to just over a million quid so if you spread that out over all the councils then it is pretty negligible.
And I have no need to use Google to get my information because I lived through these times and remember what happened but unfortunately some people demand evidence and if that's what they want then I'm happy to oblige.
And finally, I have never seen anything to suggest that Labour had plans to withdraw free school milk from primary school children and I doubt there ever was.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Remember this JD.

1971: Councils defy Thatcher milk ban

Opposition is growing to Education Secretary Margaret Thatcher's plans to end free school milk for children over the age of seven.

The bill received its second reading last night. It was passed by 281 votes to 248, a government majority of 33.

The Conservatives have issued a warning to local authorities not to go ahead with any plans to break the law deliberately.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/15/newsid_4486000/4486571.stm

Chancers

Errrm... no, i guess he doesn't remember it you thick tw4t - he wouldn't have been born in 1971!

I was having my third of a pint of milk when i was 5/6 in 1980 - i remember it well.

And what that has to do with immigration i'll never know.

Andy what Irn means is that he is asking if I remember taking anout this elsewhere re before, as in the 'Milk Snatcher' thread on ADO....which was never even intended to delves Into this, as as I remember that thread caused a huge hissy by a one or two I. Particular....

Irn was challenged by Edmund on that thread to provide evidence to support what he said about Thatcher not just withdrawing the milk for the primary kids, but also how Labour KEPT free milk for primary kids , but still did not make it illegal for secondary kids to get free milk despite the withdrawal of it by the Wikson government....

And I clearly remember Edmund say at the the time that the uptake for the free milk in secondary schools was so low anyway.,,,

And tbh honest here Edmund,,,what you say about Wilson withdrawing the milk for primary kids had he have won the next election is sheer speculation on your part.

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe I got mixed up, one bit of one article I was reading about it said something about EEC.



The rest of article posted is accurate I believe.

Tommy , I've been 'looking in' fairly often on your arguments with Irn lately...and although I don't remember as much as Irn or Edmund, and I have used wiki to verify some if these issues, this is nowhere near only the first time youve been wrong , or supplied dodgy information from non credible links.  

Alright said Fred wrote:Had your crib sheets from Labour central today Bru. Or are you waiting and posting old lies. Wilson started the removal of school milk liar.

It is well known except it seems by Labour spinners(liars) like you.

Get real Irn Bru lies don't become truths by repetition except perhaps in the minds of dumbos like JD.

Really you are so transparent.

Are you just pretending to be be a halfwit or what Drinky?...the fact we are discussing is,,,THATCHER removed free milk for primary kids,,NOT WILSON,  but Wilson did remove free milk for secondary pupils, but in doing so, he did not make it illegal.

..and if you wiki Thatcher milk snatcher, you will see she not only withdrew milk for primary kids, but she also made it illegal for any councils to supply primary kids with free school milk.

Irn Bru wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:It really is remarkable just how long this hairy old chestnut has been plodding creakily around forums, and in my own modest way I'm at least partly responsible because I was the one who originally threw into one of the discussions about "Thatcher Milk Snatcher" the fact that the first "snatcher" was, in fact, a minister in the Wilson administration...something which Labour and its supporters had/have always been very unwilling to concede.  

I can't remember whether it was the heath secretary or the education secretary, but whoever it was did it for three main (and perfectly valid) reasons: Firstly, free school milk was an immediate post-war measure designed to counter childhood dietary deficiencies brought about by food rationing, something no longer considered to be necessary by the late 1960s; secondly the sheer volume of waste - milk being returned to the distribution depots because so many children were refusing to drink it - was unsustainable as it could be used only for livestock feed and industrial purposes, and thirdly the escalating cost of subsidising both production and distribution and the not unreasonable expectation of dairy farmers, who were facing big labour and raw material cost increases at the time, for better prices for their product.

Both Wilson (or the relevant minister) and Margaret Thatcher as Education Secretary in the Health administration, used precisely the same method; withdrawal of government funding for the relevant age group (Wilson 10 to 17 years and Thatcher primary age).

Now IB is correct in saying that Wilson did not actually make it illegal for councils to continue to provide school milk, but he most certainly deliberately placed the considerable and escalating financial burden on them in the full knowledge that then, as now, they were badly strapped for cash and that any vociferous groups of parents who opposed the measure - as many did - would blame local councillors and not himself and his government.

That's an old Westminster ploy, and both Labour and the Tories have used it quite blatantly over the years; it's known as "getting out from under."

Margaret Thatcher did make it illegal - and her justification was that both national and local government spending had to be curbed as the cash all came from the same source - the taxpayers - and that the government had a duty to bring that about. I think there's one of her quotes about that earlier in this thread.

At the time there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that had Wilson won the election instead of Heath, he would have brought in the next phase of funding withdrawal - for primary age pupils - exactly as Thatcher did three years or so later.

I know this because as farming editor of a newspaper it was my job to know (the farming organisations knew damn well that it was on the Labour agenda and were already lobbying MPs and PPCs about it) and as the husband of a very disgruntled dairy farmer, 'er indoors made damn certain that I was "on message."

So, I don't have to rely on Wiki, Hansard or any other source; I was there and, more importantly from my point of view at least, I was very personally and actively involved and, at the time, could reasonably claim to be something of an authority on the subject...albeit a modest one.

And the fact that it will cut no ice with those here who have far more time and inclination than myself to indulge in manic Googling does leave me, I have to say in advance, totally underwhelmed.

Well that's a lot of words you have written there Fred but if you wish to do that  just to point out that I have been right all along in that Labour still allowed councils to supply free milk using the rate support grant and they did not ban it then fair enough.
And there were no escalating costs in supplying free school milk to secondary schools, indeed it was declining so much that most of it was being flushed away because of a low take up - a position you made clear in previous discussions that we have had on this subject. Production and distribution costs of milk generally were rising and dairy farmers and the transport industry not unnaturally wanted to recoup those costs. But they also wanted to maintain the school milk supply contracts yet at the same time avoid the losses incurred in taking back and disposing of milk rejected by schoolchildren. That is why they were lobbying on the matter.
And I doubt there would be many complaints from rate payers due to the fact that the total bill for a year over the entire country had dropped to just over a million quid so if you spread that out over all the councils then it is pretty negligible. Ratepayers tend not to look at individual commodity, service or labour costs in isolation but at the global annual increase. School milk was just one element, but a highly visible one. Rate increases were always a matter of concern in many local authority areas, just as community charge and then council tax increases have always been contentious issues. All governments are responsible for much of the increases in local spending, either because of reductions in support grant or mandatory increases in services provided. And equally, all governments are anxious that the blame is directed at local councillors rather than at ministers and MPs.
And I have no need to use Google to get my information because I lived through these times and remember what happened (I don't recall seeing you at any of the local, regional and national meetings and briefings between organisations such as the NFU and the dairy farmers' federations and Labour (and later Tory) ministers, constituency MPs and Prospective Parliamentary candidates when the future of free school milk was being discussed. I happen to have been at many of them in a professional capacity. I can only compliment you on your accute memory of the proceeding of meetings at which you were not present.but unfortunately some people demand evidence and if that's what they want then I'm happy to oblige.
And finally, I have never seen anything to suggest that Labour had plans to withdraw free school milk from primary school children and I doubt there ever was.

You "doubt it" because you don't want to accept that it was an issue and that it involved Labour ministers. I know that it was so because I was present at meetings before the general election[b] at which it was frequently raised by farmers and the milk distribution industry in their lobbying of MPs and PPCs. For the record, I'm not making a political point here; attempting to smear Labour and defend the Tories. If you recall, I posted earlier that I saw the Wilson government measure as being a perfectly valid policy, something which placed me in conflict with farmers on several occasions, I might add. Cap doffing and forelock touching is something that I leave to Labour's unquestioning supporters.[/color]

Joy Division wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Maybe I got mixed up, one bit of one article I was reading about it said something about EEC.
The rest of article posted is accurate I believe.

Tommy , I've been 'looking in' fairly often on your arguments with Irn lately...and although I don't remember as much as Irn or Edmund, and I have used wiki to verify some if these issues, this is nowhere near only the first time youve been wrong , or supplied dodgy information from non credible links.  

It.i wrong just because you pop up and say so.....???



Prove it or shut it.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Joy Division wrote:
Tommy , I've been 'looking in' fairly often on your arguments with Irn lately...and although I don't remember as much as Irn or Edmund, and I have used wiki to verify some if these issues, this is nowhere near only the first time youve been wrong , or supplied dodgy information from non credible links.  

It.i wrong just because you pop up and say so.....???



Prove it or shut it.

Look, you were miles out on the milk snatcher issue, you chose to spout off claiming you were telling the truth and that you had it right, you didn't, and you, along with Drinky have just been making yourselves look like a right pair of plonkers,,,,

If you don't know the answer, then don't jump in Tommy.


..and No, your not wrong simply because I said so, ive read the wiki with regards to milk snatcher, amd Irn had already told me anyway, ok.

wiki isn't a reliable source it is only opinions , Irn isn't a reliable source either   

Still forgetting that Harold Wilsons govt took away milk in 1968 for 11-16 year old children.
But Wilson the milk snatcher doesn't rhyme as well does It...???
"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968 and then in 1971, Lady Thatcher, who was education secretary under Sir Edward Heath, ended free school milk for children over the age of seven.
Although the move gave her the nickname "Thatcher, Thatcher, milk-snatcher" and cemented the public view that she would ruthlessly cut spending, documents released recently suggest she had actually fought to save the grants. She was overruled by Sir Edward......"

Tommy Monk wrote:Still forgetting that Harold Wilsons govt took away milk in 1968 for 11-16 year old children.
But Wilson the milk snatcher doesn't rhyme as well does It...???
"...Harold Wilson's Labour government stopped free milk for secondary school pupils in 1968 and then in 1971, Lady Thatcher, who was education secretary under Sir Edward Heath, ended free school milk for children over the age of seven.
Although the move gave her the nickname "Thatcher, Thatcher, milk-snatcher" and cemented the public view that she would ruthlessly cut spending, documents released recently suggest she had actually fought to save the grants. She was overruled by Sir Edward......"

No Tommy,,,Thatcher stopped milk for every level of primary school...that includes Primary one, who are around five year old or so,,,,


Yes , Harold Wilson stopped milk for secondary schools but he did not make it illegal to supply them, and as you were told by Irn(and Edmund even quoted this) , the uptake In secondary schools was so low, it wasn't worth the bother.

Now Tommy, you've be been told time again that Thatcher made it illegal to supply milk for ALL primary aged school kids...Wilson never made it illegal top supply secondary schools...

Agreed?


And every time I hear the excuse of the Thatcher name rhyming better, it just gets funnier.  

What's funny JD is that I went to school in the 70's and had milk throughout.



Wilson govt stopped milk for children over 11.


Heath govt stopped it for children over 7, documents show that thatcher resisted this, fought to keep the milk but was overruled by Heath.

I hated the milk,so did most others,that inch or so of yellow cream on the top made me feel sick!!

Fred Moletrousers wrote:[Production and distribution costs of milk generally were rising and dairy farmers and the transport industry not unnaturally wanted to recoup those costs. But they also wanted to maintain the school milk supply contracts yet at the same time avoid the losses incurred in taking back and disposing of milk rejected by schoolchildren. That is why they were lobbying on the matter.

.
That changes nothing. Milk consumption in secondary schools was declining to the extent that it had dropped to levels that were negligible and what demand there was was better being costed locally rather than by central government.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:[Ratepayers tend not to look at individual commodity, service or labour costs in isolation but at the global annual increase. School milk was just one element, but a highly visible one. Rate increases were always a matter of concern in many local authority areas, just as community charge and then council tax increases have always been contentious issues. All governments are responsible for much of the increases in local spending, either because of reductions in support grant or mandatory increases in services provided. And equally, all governments are anxious that the blame is directed at local councillors rather than at ministers and MPs.

There would be  no rate increases as a result of any local authorities who wished to supply it t because the costs of these would be covered by a specific rate support grant to those authorities who wished to continue supplying it, not the general one which was the  one that was discontinued in 1968. And as I said, the amount to the rate payers would have been so small any that even if it had been added to the local rates it would hardly have been noticed

Fred Moletrousers wrote:[I don't recall seeing you at any of the local, regional and national meetings and briefings between organisations such as the NFU and the dairy farmers' federations and Labour (and later Tory) ministers, constituency MPs and Prospective Parliamentary candidates when the future of free school milk was being discussed. I happen to have been at many of them in a professional capacity. I can only compliment you on your accute memory of the proceeding of meetings at which you were not present

But you don’t know me and as I’m in Scotland and you are in England you are hardly likely to have seen me at one of any of your meetings, are you?

In fact, in the mid 60s I wasn’t even in this country half the time but when I was I was acutely aware of what was going on because I was interested enough to find out about a lot of iit. And  my best pal from school was a  budding activist in the Labour movement at that time and I even helped him out in delivering leaflets through the doors of the local community explaining what the effects of the local government bill of 1966 and the subsequent legislation would mean in relation to the provision of school meals and milk to the children so I know more about it than you think. Actually, he is the local councillor now and a very good one at that and a great source of knowledge.

The internet is a huge library used by academics and researchers alike from all over the world. And I can assure you that I don’t need to use Google to access any information because I know how to conduct research by many other means such as reading up on articles that of interest to me or looking up data on what government makes available through statutory notices distributed by HMSO which I have been receiving for years through an account which I have. Add to that whatever is published in the parliamentary archives and in the agencies that are there to scrutinise, audit and hold to account the government and other professional bodies you might begin to get the picture because I’ve had to do it for years – officially and in a professional capacity.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:[You "doubt it" because you don't want to accept that it was an issue and that it involved Labour ministers. I know that it was so because I was present at meetings before the general election[b] at which it was frequently raised by farmers and the milk distribution industry in their lobbying of MPs and PPCs. For the record, I'm not making a political point here; attempting to smear Labour and defend the Tories. If you recall, I posted earlier that I saw the Wilson government measure as being a perfectly valid policy, something which placed me in conflict with farmers on several occasions, I might add. Cap doffing and forelock touching is something that I leave to Labour's unquestioning supporters.[/color]

And which election would that be then – 1964? How old were you then?

You’re right, I’m not accepting it just because you say so because I have never ever heard  that there was any plan, not a sniff, not a whisper, absolutely nothing other than what you say and why should I take that at face value as being true? All the medical and scientific evidence presented at the time indicated that withdrawing free school milk from primary school children would have an adverse effect on their health and whether true or not that was the reason the government decided not to apply it. There hasn’t been a sniff of a plan anywhere and if there had been then surely something would have come out with papers released under the 30 year rule.

And it was you brought up Google (again) and I think I know why. You brought it up as just another step in trying to discredit me as something of a Google freak that is up all night using Google to get something on the Tories. That’s what you were doing when you signed off from here on temporary gardening leave a while back because you were going to be too busy. Strange then that just a few hours later you were gleefully posting away on a thread on the other site branding the people here as a bunch of left wing Nazi’s defending paedophiles. And to cap it all you were busy pinning the blame for all that on me as well as coming out with all your Google nonsense. I suppose you knew you would girt a rapturous response there and so it turned out. What a cheap shot that was and I really didn’t think you could stoop that low.

And here you are again coming up with the same old nonsense in an attempt to try and discredit my views and opinions which are normally always based on reliable research from credible sources. I have never ever made anything personal with you so I suppose I’ll just have to put it down to the fact that my contributions have enough truth in them and you find too difficult to deal with so you end up trying to play the man and not the ball

I had decided not to bring this up if you came back but as you are just going to carry on with all this nonsense I’ll give you a reminder of your contribution and the responses you were obviously looking for. Page No’s 1 and 2 refer

http://inaflap.forumotion.co.uk/t19472-the-truth-about-labour-s-apologists-for-paedophilia-police-probe-child-sex-campaign-group-linked-to-three-top-party-officials-in-wake-of-savile-scandal

How sad