Racists Everywhere!

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 8:30 am

First topic message reminder :

26th May 2014

BigAndy9 did warn you all - i wanted peace and prosperity, you wanted divisiveness and blood.

Please, take my route, not this route. Act now before it is too late Dave - crack down on immigration and stop the EU from dictating to us.

France’s far-Right Front National was on course for an historic victory in European elections on Sunday night, coming top in a national election for the first time in its 42-year history in a score it said represented a “massive rejection” of the EU.

Early exit polls placed the anti-European, anti-immigrant party first with 25 per cent of the vote – a result that was even better than expected.

The result put the FN well ahead of the opposition centre-Right UMP party, on 20.6 per cent, which lost nine percentage points compared to 2009.

The ruling Socialists clinched a paltry 14.1 per cent, the second drubbing they have received in nationwide elections in two months after suffering heavy losses in municipal elections in March.

President François Hollande has called a crisis cabinet meeting on Monday morning to discuss his next move after this latest rout for his party.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10855797/Marine-Le-Pen-wins-record-victory-in-French-elections.html

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 10:56 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:Its not BS Ben...you have no idea of the disingenuity of the british left

for years ALL rational debate on immigration has been smothered, problems ignored and numbers increased to stupid levels..indeed on THAT point labour admitted as much...

many issues did have easy (and it has to be said equitable) solutions and these solutions were ignored

some issues were "silly" in many ways but equity was ignored...people being made to remove crucifixes when others were NOT made to remove face coverings... the govt COULD have stepped in with directives to firms doing the "remove your crucifix" but failed to do so...

you see ben...politics is not about absolutes...but very much about perceptions....

and my point about only NOW wanting debate I think you will find is quite correct...(also you will find further down the line that my point about it being a "conditional" debate will also be true)

Sorry Victor that is really silly to say the least, there has never been any resistance to talking about immigration, in fact it has been talked about for the last 8 years, accept some people are not obsessed with immigration as some people are. This is not to say there is genuine concerns, but let us be honest the majority is based upon racial lines, not anything that is viable.
The reality is and you have done so as many others have done countless times in history and use fear arguments, UKIP utilized on this and won support based upon how some people are susceptible to fear being promoted. You make arguments on Muslims, yet the majority of foreign migration non-Muslim, showing how a topic is steered to inflame fear again.
So when has rational debate been stopped? I clash with any who use poor arguments, I do not when they have reasonable concerns over infrastructure, but claims based upon groups of people are poor fallacy arguments and they always have been and people defend against such hate arguments, and then claimed they are being stopped, yet happy to promote such poor hate against people, it is illogical to claim. You cannot deny the same arguments based on fear are used as has been against the Jews, cultural identity, culture being eradicated, crime, fear of an incompatibility with western ways, fear of taking over etc, this are all the same and hence why such arguments are countered, what you are basically saying is people should not counter them, which is absurd

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 11:07 pm

No actually didge...I'm not saying that bad arguments should not be countered....read whats there ...not what you THINK is there....

what I AM saying is that the rhetoric of the left over MANY years is the main cause of 90% of the problems, as I have pointed out you DO NOT win any converts by screaming (chose any from sixhirb) at people a la Mr Brown.

you do NOT win any converts by simply dismissing someone as a racist bigot and then throwing their question in the bin...

you do NOT win any converts when you have a solution presented and refuse out of sheer bloodyminded "we know best" attitude to implement it untill its too late for it to work in your favour...all that results in is "about bloody time"

what YOU are saying is that the "great unwashed" are undeserving of consideration and only YOUR (the lefty) view is correct

I rather think that the left have been given fair notice that people are PISSED....

by Tommy Monk Mon May 26, 2014 11:12 pm

Talk against mass immigration has been shouted down by The lefties and 'progressives' for years more like, with labour denying it was even happening for most of their 13 years.
Part of the reason labour were even voted in was the misguided belief that they would be looking after British workers.
Instead they sold them out even more than the Torys.
Anyone who dared raise concerns was shouted down as a racist or bigot or xenaphobe or knuckle dragging Nazi BNP thug.....!!

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 11:13 pm

Oh and on another point.....

you have freely accepted that there are "some" muslims" (as there are "some" others too) that are causing potentially serious problems and that pose a serious threat to everyone ....you have as usual utterly failed to suggest an answer to that problem....

politically it is NO use admitting a threat exists....and then saying ...but you can damn well live with it...we know best...

It just doesnt wash anymore...

If the establishment doesnt come up with an acceptable soultion...eventually something will happen that will allow "the people" to justify an "unacceptable " solution....

by Ben Reilly Mon May 26, 2014 11:16 pm

So what is your solution, victor? Tighter immigration controls? Cracking down on firebrand imams? Increased surveillance? Community outreach programs? Whinging all day on the internet? ::D::

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 11:17 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:No actually didge...I'm not saying that bad arguments should not be countered....read whats there ...not what you THINK is there....

what I AM saying is that the rhetoric of the left over MANY years is the main cause of 90% of the problems, as I have pointed out you DO NOT win any converts by screaming (chose any from sixhirb) at people a la Mr Brown.

you do NOT win any converts by simply dismissing someone as a racist bigot and then throwing their question in the bin...

you do NOT win any converts when you have a solution presented and refuse out of sheer bloodyminded "we know best" attitude to implement it untill its too late for it to work in your favour...all that results in is "about bloody time"

what YOU are saying is that the "great unwashed" are undeserving of consideration and only YOUR (the lefty) view is correct

I rather think that the left have been given fair notice that people are PISSED....

But the point is Victor those who advocate these poor fear arguments are generally xenophobic in nature in their views, and yet they can label people, but your argument which is a contradiction should be that they are not labelled for what they are. That again is absurd, a person that use fear arguments against an ethnic or religious group is xenophobic, because they are as seen using fallacy arguments of fear and dislike. The reality is and as seen through hard times like recessions it is easier to castigate these groups and blame them fro problems people are facing, that is why there is always such a rise in far right support after a recession. I refuse to accept poor arguments and never will be won over by them, because I once used to believe in them myself and know more than anyone why they are wrong, they are based upon a fear, an unfounded fear at that, but what you are saying is I should not show my reasons why such views are wrong, you are saying people have these views and I should just accept poor views, that seek to promote a divide between people. I am actually giving dialogue to these arguments and showing and to me proving why they are wrong and history is a good bases to show why they are wrong. What you are saying is that I should not argue against them and give them free reign, sorry I will not do that because I see the danger of such fear arguments and what they lead to The reality is many people are able to live side by side and to me you cannot offer a reason why others cannot. The problem will stem from those indigenous who do not want to integrate, so the question should be, why not?

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 11:26 pm

as to why not....I suggest you look at the results of the EU election....

are you saying a large proportion of voters fit your description of xenophobic bigots then?

are you saying to them stuff your concerns...they are "fear based" so we dont need to address them?

because If you DONT address these fears (real or imagined) with something other than STFU, or disdain and arrogance then you might just find that the established parties get a slapping in the GE too...

the same as your "its ammunition for debate on reform in the EU"....well the eu aint gonna reform if it can help it...It will take a nuke under each and every "comissioner" to shake their complacency...and cameron has one year to do it in.....

nah...aint gonna happen

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 11:35 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:as to why not....I suggest you look at the results of the EU election....

are you saying a large proportion of voters fit your description of xenophobic bigots then?

are you saying to them stuff your concerns...they are "fear based" so we dont need to address them?

because If you DONT address these fears (real or imagined) with something other than STFU, or disdain and arrogance then you might just find that the established parties get a slapping in the GE too...

the same as your "its ammunition for debate on reform in the EU"....well the eu aint gonna reform if it can help it...It will take a nuke under each and every "comissioner" to shake their complacency...and cameron has one year to do it in.....

nah...aint gonna happen

Yes I have seen the election results and see that 9 far right parties have played upon this susceptibility of people in their country, that is though not a reason as to why they cannot integrate themselves. All that is showing is how some people are easily led by fear. Again read what I say, people are more susceptible to arguments of fear after recessions, history shows this time and time again, it means they can be easily led by poor arguments of fear, where generally before they never were. I am not saying stuff your concerns, I am saying to them that I view that fears as unfounded, because again like I am asking you, what is it that is really stopping you from integrating with other immigrants. Now every time I point this out, then out come the fear arguments about immigrants, which as stated are unfounded based off extreme examples, it is thus people using excuses not to integrate and not showing to me why they cannot integrate.

The reality is Victor I am addressing these fears and I do so daily because again as seen people ares susceptible to arguments that are unsubstantiated, sadly some people are easily led and the main group of people that feels this way is a proportion of the white working class, who I admit have been alienated by the main Parties over the years, because of trying to have equality in this country an where also some have wrongly been labelled racist for having genuine concerns. The reality is though Victor the pro EU parties won still two third of the votes, but they will see the threat of the far right rising and know most will have made a protest vote but will still have a concern such hate parties, of which I do not include UKIP will gain some influence. This more than anything will make the EU reform, otherwise these far right parties will play off this and try to create civil strife, as they will never obtain full power and yet will claim they are being denied and cause violence. So again the talk should be around dealing with those immigrants that do come and do not integrate, but also those here that have no wish to integrate, as seen I see no reason why either cannot integrate when many others do.

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 11:54 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:So what is your solution, victor? Tighter immigration controls? Cracking down on firebrand imams? Increased surveillance? Community outreach programs? Whinging all day on the internet? ::D::

by Tommy Monk Tue May 27, 2014 12:00 am

It is the mainstream partys pursuit of their progressive agenda and saying bollocks to the views and wishes of the electorate that is causing the problem.
It is quite clearly displaying the absence of democracy we have here when they so blatantly go against the wishes of the People they pretend to represent.
I am a firm believer in democracy, and the right for every nation to have the right to self determination.
Sadly, the lib lab con cosy alliance have not been acting in this way for a long time, and have just been following a separate agenda.
So where does that leave the principle of democracy here....?

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:01 am

lovedust wrote:
What good is "slapping down the established parties" actually going to do?

sadly LD achieve very little except chaos I suspect....but bear in mind "slapping them down " is MY perception

You see I dont WANT a racist, xenophobic and potentially extremist party here....

BUT when all we have is corrupt self serving Euro servile idiots as a choice. when all we have are weak pathetic numpties out for their own pockets,
and when all we have are morons that cant actually SEE that problems do indeed exist, that in reality take little fixing....

then anything that offers an alternative, especially to what is perceptibly a smoulderingly resentful voter base, then that alternative could have a chance.....

what will happen of course is that instead of getting down to the reality on the ground and dealing with peoples fears the parties will do as didge does ...and just dismiss them as "fear based hate mongering"...thus alienating even more people...

EXAMPLE (again not up for debate as a topic) halal

so far we have NOTHING to actually deal with this problem...just denial and insult, yet the answer is there ...staring everyone in the face....legislate for clear and unambiguous labeling...then NO-ONE has a case to kick off about.....simple aint it....THAT solution has been around for years....but never implemented....why...because it didnt suit the agenda...

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:04 am

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:as to why not....I suggest you look at the results of the EU election....

are you saying a large proportion of voters fit your description of xenophobic bigots then?

are you saying to them stuff your concerns...they are "fear based" so we dont need to address them?

because If you DONT address these fears (real or imagined) with something other than STFU, or disdain and arrogance then you might just find that the established parties get a slapping in the GE too...

the same as your "its ammunition for debate on reform in the EU"....well the eu aint gonna reform if it can help it...It will take a nuke under each and every "comissioner" to shake their complacency...and cameron has one year to do it in.....

nah...aint gonna happen

Yes I have seen the election results and see that 9 far right parties have played upon this susceptibility of people in their country, that is though not a reason as to why they cannot integrate themselves. All that is showing is how some people are easily led by fear. Again read what I say, people are more susceptible to arguments of fear after recessions, history shows this time and time again, it means they can be easily led by poor arguments of fear, where generally before they never were. I am not saying stuff your concerns, I am saying to them that I view that fears as unfounded, because again like I am asking you, what is it that is really stopping you from integrating with other immigrants. Now every time I point this out, then out come the fear arguments about immigrants, which as stated are unfounded based off extreme examples, it is thus people using excuses not to integrate and not showing to me why they cannot integrate.

The reality is Victor I am addressing these fears and I do so daily because again as seen people ares susceptible to arguments that are unsubstantiated, sadly some people are easily led and the main group of people that feels this way is a proportion of the white working class, who I admit have been alienated by the main Parties over the years, because of trying to have equality in this country an where also some have wrongly been labelled racist for having genuine concerns. The reality is though Victor the pro EU parties won still two third of the votes, but they will see the threat of the far right rising and know most will have made a protest vote but will still have a concern such hate parties, of which I do not include UKIP will gain some influence. This more than anything will make the EU reform, otherwise these far right parties will play off this and try to create civil strife, as they will never obtain full power and yet will claim they are being denied and cause violence. So again the talk should be around dealing with those immigrants that do come and do not integrate, but also those here that have no wish to integrate, as seen I see no reason why either cannot integrate when many others do.

people dont WANT talk......they want action....effective action....

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:08 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:So what is your solution, victor? Tighter immigration controls? YesCracking down on firebrand imams?Yes Increased surveillance? where it is reasonable so to do ...YESCommunity outreach programs? for certain problems yes Whinging all day on the internet? ::D::

and less of the "its is 'uman rights dontch know"...come here...cause trouble...out you go
live here...cause trouble ...long time no see outside world......
live here...go abroad on "jihad" for a terrorist group ...you dont come back in...

Oh and stop following like america's poodle into every adventure it embarks on....especially when its leader is "obeying the voice of god"

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:09 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

Yes I have seen the election results and see that 9 far right parties have played upon this susceptibility of people in their country, that is though not a reason as to why they cannot integrate themselves. All that is showing is how some people are easily led by fear. Again read what I say, people are more susceptible to arguments of fear after recessions, history shows this time and time again, it means they can be easily led by poor arguments of fear, where generally before they never were. I am not saying stuff your concerns, I am saying to them that I view that fears as unfounded, because again like I am asking you, what is it that is really stopping you from integrating with other immigrants. Now every time I point this out, then out come the fear arguments about immigrants, which as stated are unfounded based off extreme examples, it is thus people using excuses not to integrate and not showing to me why they cannot integrate.

The reality is Victor I am addressing these fears and I do so daily because again as seen people ares susceptible to arguments that are unsubstantiated, sadly some people are easily led and the main group of people that feels this way is a proportion of the white working class, who I admit have been alienated by the main Parties over the years, because of trying to have equality in this country an where also some have wrongly been labelled racist for having genuine concerns. The reality is though Victor the pro EU parties won still two third of the votes, but they will see the threat of the far right rising and know most will have made a protest vote but will still have a concern such hate parties, of which I do not include UKIP will gain some influence. This more than anything will make the EU reform, otherwise these far right parties will play off this and try to create civil strife, as they will never obtain full power and yet will claim they are being denied and cause violence. So again the talk should be around dealing with those immigrants that do come and do not integrate, but also those here that have no wish to integrate, as seen I see no reason why either cannot integrate when many others do.

people dont WANT talk......they want action....effective action....

Against all those who do not integrate?

I agree, it works both ways, just because you are born to a land does not give you a right not to try an integrate as many others do, in fact there is no valid reason not to. The same with any people coming to these shores, because if you advocate people being allowed to not integrate born here the same applies to those who come here.
You cannot have it both ways, it has to be integration or non-integration, and I choose integration, what do you choose?

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:11 am

You know what we need to do don't you?

Have a debate. lol

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:32 am

define integration....

remember...I was here first, so I am NOT prepared to concede any rights I presently enjoy.
i expect the law of the land a) to remain as such and NOT be altered to accomodate religious or cultural interests from outside and b) to be applied equitably to ALL
I expect to NOT be subject to the religious requirements of "others" regardless of how "minor" that may be
(and that encompasses many things, which includes not having to put up with a stroppy, foul tempered co worker, who's blood sugar is low and he's hungry, hence in a foul mood...because its "fasting time" Rolling Eyes

)

As far as I am concerned, the whole damn world could camp here....just leave me be....I wont interfere with your life...dont you interfere with mine...and if that means you get a job, and I have to interact with you then FFS...learn to speak CLEAR english....I most certainly aint gonna learn YOUR language...and I object to YOU making me look a fool by having to ask you to repeat things six times because your accent makes your speech difficult to hear for me and impossible for Mrs Victor with her hearing problems...

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:33 am

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

people dont WANT talk......they want action....effective action....

Against all those who do not integrate?

I agree, it works both ways, just because you are born to a land does not give you a right not to try an integrate as many others do, in fact there is no valid reason not to. The same with any people coming to these shores, because if you advocate people being allowed to not integrate born here the same applies to those who come here.
You cannot have it both ways, it has to be integration or non-integration, and I choose integration, what do you choose?

Integration is NOT necessarily a two way street....

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:35 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

Against all those who do not integrate?

I agree, it works both ways, just because you are born to a land does not give you a right not to try an integrate as many others do, in fact there is no valid reason not to. The same with any people coming to these shores, because if you advocate people being allowed to not integrate born here the same applies to those who come here.
You cannot have it both ways, it has to be integration or non-integration, and I choose integration, what do you choose?

Integration is NOT necessarily a two way street....

Yes it is and there is no reason again why people cannot integrate, hence why it is a two way street.
Again nobody can tell me why people should not integrate.

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:45 am

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

Integration is NOT necessarily a two way street....

Yes it is and there is no reason again why people cannot integrate, hence why it is a two way street.
Again nobody can tell me why people should not integrate.

circular argument...it is a two way street because people can integrate so its a two way street.....uh huh...

i posteed a definition of integration elsewhere on here.......

THEY accept OUR values laws etc...we accept their right to their culture...EXCEPT where it crosses our laws and cultural norms...(and we do not by implication change those to "accomodate") so ok...PARTLY two way.....

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:45 am

victorisnotamused wrote:define integration....

remember...I was here first, so I am NOT prepared to concede any rights I presently enjoy.
i expect the law of the land a) to remain as such and NOT be altered to accomodate religious or cultural interests from outside and b) to be applied equitably to ALL
I expect to NOT be subject to the religious requirements of "others" regardless of how "minor" that may be
(and that encompasses many things, which includes not having to put up with a stroppy, foul tempered co worker, who's blood sugar is low and he's hungry, hence in a foul mood...because its "fasting time" )

As far as I am concerned, the whole damn world could camp here....just leave me be....I wont interfere with your life...dont you interfere with mine...and if that means you get a job, and I have to interact with you then FFS...learn to speak CLEAR english....I most certainly aint gonna learn YOUR language...and I object to YOU making me look a fool by having to ask you to repeat things six times because your accent makes your speech difficult to hear for me and impossible for Mrs Victor with her hearing problems...

Your rights? What about their rights?
So again it is a two way street, you respect their rights and they respect your rights and all live according to the law of the land.

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:46 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

Yes it is and there is no reason again why people cannot integrate, hence why it is a two way street.
Again nobody can tell me why people should not integrate.

circular argument...it is a two way street because people can integrate so its a two way street.....uh huh...

i posteed a definition of integration elsewhere on here.......

THEY accept OUR values laws etc...we accept their right to their culture...EXCEPT where it crosses our laws and cultural norms...(and we do not by implication change those to "accomodate") so ok...PARTLY two way.....

Many do accept our values and laws, so again there is no reason not to respect theirs, if they abide by the laws of the land, so again you are offering poor excuses not to integrate. So again what reason is there not to integrate with immigrants?

None

You are using fear arguments off those who do not integrate as a means not to integrate with any, that is just a poor excuse, not a reason not to integrate Victor

by veya_victaous Tue May 27, 2014 12:48 am

victorisnotamused wrote:define integration....

remember...I was here first, so I am NOT prepared to concede any rights I presently enjoy.
i expect the law of the land a) to remain as such and NOT be altered to accomodate religious or cultural interests from outside and b) to be applied equitably to ALL
I expect to NOT be subject to the religious requirements of "others" regardless of how "minor" that may be
(and that encompasses many things, which includes not having to put up with a stroppy, foul tempered co worker, who's blood sugar is low and he's hungry, hence in a foul mood...because its "fasting time" )

As far as I am concerned, the whole damn world could camp here....just leave me be....I wont interfere with your life...dont you interfere with mine...and if that means you get a job, and I have to interact with you then FFS...learn to speak CLEAR english....I most certainly aint gonna learn YOUR language...and I object to YOU making me look a fool by having to ask you to repeat things six times because your accent makes your speech difficult to hear for me and impossible for Mrs Victor with her hearing problems...

That is bordering on unreasonable Neutral

they should try and learn English but you have to make allowances for someone learning a new language, being an ass to them just makes it harder and gives them less desire to learn, just so a rude Englishman can understand them better.

People can't help their accents... that attitude is as bad as the bloody French expecting people to learn French when the go to France for a holiday.

Learn to speak the broken English that is ACTUALLY the language of the world.

and the fasting time thing is also crap, stop women doing crazy diets etc that make them unreasonable Rolling Eyes

laws should change to be come more open and allow for more freedom, I agree that they shouldn't be asking for something that was legal to become illegal. but there are some things that can become legal like opening on Christmas and Sundays etc because you can get workers not following that religious time table. it gives an opportunity to look at what has been illegal just because of some old religious dogma and remove that too.

by Tommy Monk Tue May 27, 2014 12:50 am

Bullshit dodge, those who come here are the ones who need to integrate.
If they don't like the British way of life then either don't come here or piss off!!!

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:52 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Bullshit dodge, those who come here are the ones who need to integrate.
If they don't like the British way of life then either don't come here or piss off!!!

Please run along, adults are debating

Thanks

by Tommy Monk Tue May 27, 2014 12:57 am

Yes and your childish arguments have been exposed long ago.....

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:58 am

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

circular argument...it is a two way street because people can integrate so its a two way street.....uh huh...

i posteed a definition of integration elsewhere on here.......

THEY accept OUR values laws etc...we accept their right to their culture...EXCEPT where it crosses our laws and cultural norms...(and we do not by implication change those to "accomodate") so ok...PARTLY two way.....

Many do accept our values and laws, so again there is no reason not to respect theirs, if they abide by the laws of the land, so again you are offering poor excuses not to integrate. So again what reason is there not to integrate with immigrants?

None

You are using fear arguments off those who do not integrate as a means not to integrate with any, that is just a poor excuse, not a reason not to integrate Victor

again define what YOU consider integration....

why is anything I do NOT integration....

I am generally civil to those I HAVE to interact with (or at least no less civil than I am to anyone else)
so what more is required of me?

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 12:59 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes and your childish arguments have been exposed long ago.....

It is you being childish, because you are two stupid to read it seems, I said people who come here need to integrate as much as people who are here need to integrate with those who come here, that is why you are not intelligent enough or adult enough to have this debate.

So run along, I suggest those late nights will not help you when at school tomorrow.

Thanks

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:02 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

Many do accept our values and laws, so again there is no reason not to respect theirs, if they abide by the laws of the land, so again you are offering poor excuses not to integrate. So again what reason is there not to integrate with immigrants?

None

You are using fear arguments off those who do not integrate as a means not to integrate with any, that is just a poor excuse, not a reason not to integrate Victor

again define what YOU consider integration....

why is anything I do NOT integration....

I am generally civil to those I HAVE to interact with (or at least no less civil than I am to anyone else)
so what more is required of me?

Are ou respecting the rights of people to be here though, say if they are of a different religion, where they are not forcing their religious views on you?
If you are civil great and you let bygones be bygones, great.
Integration is adapting to each other, respecting each other etc, the same as any relationship. So if you respect women, and children and other men, why not all these from another country?

by Tommy Monk Tue May 27, 2014 1:03 am

While you are probably getting paid overtime for your input here I suppose dodge......

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:05 am

Tommy Monk wrote:While you are probably getting paid overtime for your input here I suppose dodge......

You see very childish, now do jog on there is a good boy, as having an interesting debate with Victor

Thanks

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:14 am

veya_victaous wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:define integration....

remember...I was here first, so I am NOT prepared to concede any rights I presently enjoy.
i expect the law of the land a) to remain as such and NOT be altered to accomodate religious or cultural interests from outside and b) to be applied equitably to ALL
I expect to NOT be subject to the religious requirements of "others" regardless of how "minor" that may be
(and that encompasses many things, which includes not having to put up with a stroppy, foul tempered co worker, who's blood sugar is low and he's hungry, hence in a foul mood...because its "fasting time"  )

As far as I am concerned, the whole damn world could camp here....just leave me be....I wont interfere with your life...dont you interfere with mine...and if that means you get a job, and I have to interact with you then FFS...learn to speak CLEAR english....I most certainly aint gonna learn YOUR language...and I object to YOU making me look a fool by having to ask you to repeat things six times because your accent makes your speech difficult to hear for me and impossible for Mrs Victor with her hearing problems...

That is bordering on unreasonable    they should try and learn English but you have to make allowances for someone learning a new language, being an ass to them just makes it harder and gives them less desire to learn, just so a rude Englishman can understand them better.

so when faced with a doctor muttering away in unintelligible english...I do what exactly??? this is critical....its not like ordering yer beers for the barbie

People can't help their accents... that attitude is as bad as the bloody French expecting people to learn French when the go to France for a holiday.

Yes they can...quite easily...accent is NOT like leaning another language, in fact unless deliberately maintained it is natural for a person to adopt the local accent...instinctive in fact....

Learn to speak the broken English that is ACTUALLY the language of the world.

and the fasting time thing is also crap,bull shit stop women doing crazy diets etc that make them unreasonable and thats true, not that women NEED a reason to be unreasonable

laws should change to be come more open and allow for more freedom, I agree that they shouldn't be asking for something that was legal to become illegal. but there are some things that can become legal like opening on Christmas and Sundays etc because you can get workers not following that religious time table.)yep and this has resulted in what?? workers who whilst not religious enjoyed the two day break, being forced to work sundays since they are "not religious" and since it is to them now a normal working day they get normal time instead of double time..great that....a real benefit of integration...less money in your pocket....it gives an opportunity to look at what has been illegal just because of some old religious dogma and remove that too.

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:19 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

That is bordering on unreasonable they should try and learn English but you have to make allowances for someone learning a new language, being an ass to them just makes it harder and gives them less desire to learn, just so a rude Englishman can understand them better.

so when faced with a doctor muttering away in unintelligible english...I do what exactly??? this is critical....its not like ordering yer beers for the barbie

People can't help their accents... that attitude is as bad as the bloody French expecting people to learn French when the go to France for a holiday.

Yes they can...quite easily...accent is NOT like leaning another language, in fact unless deliberately maintained it is natural for a person to adopt the local accent...instinctive in fact....

Learn to speak the broken English that is ACTUALLY the language of the world.

and the fasting time thing is also crap,bull shit stop women doing crazy diets etc that make them unreasonable and thats true, not that women NEED a reason to be unreasonable

laws should change to be come more open and allow for more freedom, I agree that they shouldn't be asking for something that was legal to become illegal. but there are some things that can become legal like opening on Christmas and Sundays etc because you can get workers not following that religious time table.)yep and this has resulted in what?? workers who whilst not religious enjoyed the two day break, being forced to work sundays since they are "not religious" and since it is to them now a normal working day they get normal time instead of double time..great that....a real benefit of integration...less money in your pocket....it gives an opportunity to look at what has been illegal just because of some old religious dogma and remove that too.

Point 1) Change doctors or report this doctor cannot speak English and thus have this tested, or have you even asked the doctor to speak slower as you are having difficulty with his accent? I would have the same with a strong Scottish or Irish accent, as would any body especially if they speak fast, so are you creating the problem by not speaking up?

Point 2) Sorry but some people do speak in fast accents, so some accommodation on your part is required as no doubt if you were to speak fast, it would be the same problem for them, and you do not have to be foreign to have difficulty understanding some accents. This requires patience both both parties.

Point 3) Most people still get over time for working the weekend, because there normal working week is Monday to Friday, so blame the retail industries for being greedy not any foriegners.

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:24 am

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

again define what YOU consider integration....

why is anything I do NOT integration....

I am generally civil to those I HAVE to interact with (or at least no less civil than I am to anyone else)
so what more is required of me?

Are ou respecting the rights of people to be here though, say if they are of a different religion, where they are not forcing their religious views on you?
If you are civil great and you let bygones be bygones, great.
Integration is adapting to each other, respecting each other etc, the same as any relationship. So if you respect women, and children and other men, why not all these from another country?

Ah now you see didge...THAT is the point isnt it....
back to my original point.....

the leftist rhetoric

you see I dont bother or have any interest in removing the rights of others....as long as they dont impinge on my rights, however tennuous they may be
however
when they DO....and I point this out YOU and yours scream sixhirb insults at me...

you see for whatever reason (and I suppose we will disagree on this ) I dislike halal as a method of slaughter...(to an extent I'm not THAT happy about OUR method either...the whole mass farming thing is not a great thing at best...but lets leave that aside)

SO...I say I want it labeling and you and yours jump down my throat....and That answer has been around for years....but rejected BY THE ESTABLISHMENT....and so Halal has become the bone of contention it has....

what is WRONG with labeling...then we can all make our choice...equity...

yet STILL those who you support wont legislate for it...

and this same argument applies to many things....and the trouble with many little things is they build a big thing out of all proportion to the size of the little things combined....

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:31 am

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

Point 1) Change doctors or report this doctor cannot speak English and thus have this tested, or have you even asked the doctor to speak slower as you are having difficulty with his accent?and have my medical records permanently endorsed with "racist"??? I would have the same with a strong Scottish or Irish accent, as would any body especially if they speak fast, so are you creating the problem by not speaking up?

Point 2) Sorry but some people do speak in fast accents, so some accommodation hmmm...again ...I'm not ordering beers for the barbie, where there is lattitude for error on your part is required as no doubt if you were to speak fast, it would be the same problem for them, and you do not have to be foreign to have difficulty understanding some accents. This requires patience both both parties.

Point 3) Most people still get over time for working the weekend, because there normal working week is Monday to Friday, so blame the retail industries for being greedy not any foriegners.

This actually isnt a problem that can be leveled at foreigners is it...sunday opening is/was a christian issue...BUT......again the establishment COULD have prevented it becoming an issue, and didnt...nor did the supposed "workers rights friendly EU....corrupt buggers they are

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:32 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

Are ou respecting the rights of people to be here though, say if they are of a different religion, where they are not forcing their religious views on you?
If you are civil great and you let bygones be bygones, great.
Integration is adapting to each other, respecting each other etc, the same as any relationship. So if you respect women, and children and other men, why not all these from another country?

Ah now you see didge...THAT is the point isnt it....
back to my original point.....

the leftist rhetoric

you see I dont bother or have any interest in removing the rights of others....as long as they dont impinge on my rights, however tennuous they may be
however
when they DO....and I point this out YOU and yours scream sixhirb insults at me...

you see for whatever reason (and I suppose we will disagree on this ) I dislike halal as a method of slaughter...(to an extent I'm not THAT happy about OUR method either...the whole mass farming thing is not a great thing at best...but lets leave that aside)

SO...I say I want it labeling and you and yours jump down my throat....and That answer has been around for years....but rejected BY THE ESTABLISHMENT....and so Halal has become the bone of contention it has....

what is WRONG with labeling...then we can all make our choice...equity...

yet STILL those who you support wont legislate for it...

and this same argument applies to many things....and the trouble with many little things is they build a big thing out of all proportion to the size of the little things combined....

Nothing to do with left wing but common sense and decency, where on earth do you get this view point is has to be left wing, that is absurd Victor, it is also a very deflecting view point away from the debate, when many people on the center right advocate exactly what I am saying

The fact is nobody is infringing on your rights, when are they? The reality is when ever something is daft implemented it is something not called for by the immigrants itself but by some PC idiots, who do not speak for many people who create these problems

The point is Halal was never a problem until after 9/11, it is used a poor means again over now the consumption of dead meat, where as stated before if you have no issue with eating meat, you have no valid argument over eating any, especially in your case when you hunt animals, to me that is a contradiction in itself, let alone Muslims also advocate for it to be labelled, thus how is that their fault? It is not but the powers that be that are not looking out for everyone, so you cannot blame the immigrants for that or companies that choose not to label, so argument is very poor. So again the fear argument, used to blame is at the forefront of your reason not to integrate which has little to do with Muslims but how others do not label.

So you have no valid argument on integration with the Muslims on halal, that is an issue you need to take up with companies and the Governement, as Muslims also support you on this.

Again there is no reason for you not to integrate, you are now using poor reasons which are nothing to do with immigrants, so again are you respecting Muslims on halal? Nope, you are bemoaning that it is not labelled which has nothing to do with Muslims. Thus integration works both ways, where they advocate supporting you in this having a label, thus integration is about mutual respect and accommodation, just like any relationship

by Tommy Monk Tue May 27, 2014 1:33 am

There is no debate with you dodge, You just keep peddling your progressive agenda arguments.
Now you argue for integration but from the angle that it is British people who have to do this, changing their ways to accommodate others, and the problems are because the British have not bent over enough!!!
You seem to have this underlying attitude that not only do the British people have to accept mass immigration regardless of whether they want it or not, as well as tolerate others different ways, cultures, religions etc (which majority already do), but also that it is us who need to change from our ways to theirs to fit in, rather than them arriving here having to change more to fit in with them.
Now given that we have people here from every country in the world, And are tolerant and accepting of all of them, and that they come here by their own choice, wanting to live here in Britain and among us and by our laws and ways.....
How is we are expected to change?
Who/which specific people is It we are expected to change for exactly?
And why?

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:34 am

Tommy Monk wrote:There is no debate with you dodge, You just keep peddling your progressive agenda arguments.
Now you argue for integration but from the angle that it is British people who have to do this, changing their ways to accommodate others, and the problems are because the British have not bent over enough!!!
You seem to have this underlying attitude that not only do the British people have to accept mass immigration regardless of whether they want it or not, as well as tolerate others different ways, cultures, religions etc (which majority already do), but also that it is us who need to change from our ways to theirs to fit in, rather than them arriving here having to change more to fit in with them.
Now given that we have people here from every country in the world, And are tolerant and accepting of all of them, and that they come here by their own choice, wanting to live here in Britain and among us and by our laws and ways.....
How is we are expected to change?
Who/which specific people is It we are expected to change for exactly?
And why?

Boring, same old babble, am more interesting in debating adults not a racist wally.

Thanks

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:37 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

Point 1) Change doctors or report this doctor cannot speak English and thus have this tested, or have you even asked the doctor to speak slower as you are having difficulty with his accent?and have my medical records permanently endorsed with "racist"??? I would have the same with a strong Scottish or Irish accent, as would any body especially if they speak fast, so are you creating the problem by not speaking up?

Point 2) Sorry but some people do speak in fast accents, so some accommodation hmmm...again ...I'm not ordering beers for the barbie, where there is lattitude for error on your part is required as no doubt if you were to speak fast, it would be the same problem for them, and you do not have to be foreign to have difficulty understanding some accents. This requires patience both both parties.

Point 3) Most people still get over time for working the weekend, because there normal working week is Monday to Friday, so blame the retail industries for being greedy not any foriegners.

This actually isnt a problem that can be leveled at foreigners is it...sunday opening is/was a christian issue...BUT......again the establishment COULD have prevented it becoming an issue, and didnt...nor did the supposed "workers rights friendly EU....corrupt buggers they are

The thing is Victor you know full well this problem is found within local accents, so again it is about patience and not being afraid to speak up and say you are finding it difficult to understand, an example:

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:38 am

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

Ah now you see didge...THAT is the point isnt it....
back to my original point.....

the leftist rhetoric

you see I dont bother or have any interest in removing the rights of others....as long as they dont impinge on my rights, however tennuous they may be
however
when they DO....and I point this out YOU and yours scream sixhirb insults at me...

you see for whatever reason (and I suppose we will disagree on this ) I dislike halal as a method of slaughter...(to an extent I'm not THAT happy about OUR method either...the whole mass farming thing is not a great thing at best...but lets leave that aside)

SO...I say I want it labeling and you and yours jump down my throat....and That answer has been around for years....but rejected BY THE ESTABLISHMENT....and so Halal has become the bone of contention it has....

what is WRONG with labeling...then we can all make our choice...equity...

yet STILL those who you support wont legislate for it...

and this same argument applies to many things....and the trouble with many little things is they build a big thing out of all proportion to the size of the little things combined....

Nothing to do with left wing but common sense and decency, where on earth do you get this view point is has to be left wing, that is absurd Victor, it is also a very deflecting view point away from the debate, when many people on the center right advocate exactly what I am saying

The fact is nobody is infringing on your rights, when are they? The reality is when ever something is daft implemented it is something not called for by the immigrants itself but by some PC idiots, who do not speak for many people who create these problems

The point is Halal was never a problem until after 9/11, it is used a poor means again over now the consumption of dead meat, where as stated before if you have no issue with eating meat, you have no valid argument over eating any, especially in your case when you hunt animals, to me that is a contradiction in itself, let alone Muslims also advocate for it to be labelled, thus how is that their fault? It is not but the powers that be that are not looking out for everyone, so you cannot blame the immigrants for that or companies that choose not to label, so argument is very poor. So again the fear argument, used to blame is at the forefront of your reason not to integrate which has little to do with Muslims but how others do not label.

So you have no valid argument on integration with the Muslims on halal, that is an issue you need to take up with companies and the Governement, as Muslims also support you on this.

Again there is no reason for you not to integrate, you are now using poor reasons which are nothing to do with immigrants, so again are you respecting Muslims on halal? Nope, you are bemoaning that it is not labelled which has nothing to do with Muslims. Thus integration works both ways, where they advocate supporting you in this having a label, thus integration is about mutual respect and accommodation, just like any relationship

Again didge you fail to read what I said.....I do NOT blame the immigrant for this...I clearly stated the establishment..is at fault.....the establishment YOU support...the tories have recently said they wont legislate to make companies do this....so THEY are sowing the seeds of discontent...now , sadly THAT reflects then back on the wrong people....

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:40 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

Nothing to do with left wing but common sense and decency, where on earth do you get this view point is has to be left wing, that is absurd Victor, it is also a very deflecting view point away from the debate, when many people on the center right advocate exactly what I am saying

The fact is nobody is infringing on your rights, when are they? The reality is when ever something is daft implemented it is something not called for by the immigrants itself but by some PC idiots, who do not speak for many people who create these problems

The point is Halal was never a problem until after 9/11, it is used a poor means again over now the consumption of dead meat, where as stated before if you have no issue with eating meat, you have no valid argument over eating any, especially in your case when you hunt animals, to me that is a contradiction in itself, let alone Muslims also advocate for it to be labelled, thus how is that their fault? It is not but the powers that be that are not looking out for everyone, so you cannot blame the immigrants for that or companies that choose not to label, so argument is very poor. So again the fear argument, used to blame is at the forefront of your reason not to integrate which has little to do with Muslims but how others do not label.

So you have no valid argument on integration with the Muslims on halal, that is an issue you need to take up with companies and the Governement, as Muslims also support you on this.

Again there is no reason for you not to integrate, you are now using poor reasons which are nothing to do with immigrants, so again are you respecting Muslims on halal? Nope, you are bemoaning that it is not labelled which has nothing to do with Muslims. Thus integration works both ways, where they advocate supporting you in this having a label, thus integration is about mutual respect and accommodation, just like any relationship

Again didge you fail to read what I said.....I do NOT blame the immigrant for this...I clearly stated the establishment..is at fault.....the establishment YOU support...the tories have recently said they wont legislate to make companies do this....so THEY are sowing the seeds of discontent...now , sadly THAT reflects then back on the wrong people....

I do not even blame the establishment because there was no call for this until recently and mainly off a bias against Muslims, I blame the companies, as they are the ones who it is really down to label the food, which is going off the integration view we are having, This proves something like hala, a fear argument is being used not to integrate with Muslims

by Tommy Monk Tue May 27, 2014 1:40 am

And veya, how can you expect to successfully come to live and work in A country unless you already know the language?
It should be one of the basic entry requirements, surely?
Checked and tested.
Not have them turn up and then have to pay out millions in costs for interpreters and translations of forms etc....
Sadly with open door EU free movement this is not bothered about....
Plus other immigrants turn up supposedly being highly skilled, and well needed who also can't speak the language, so all a load of bollocks really....

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:41 am

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

The thing is Victor you know full well this problem is found within local accents, so again it is about patience and not being afraid to speak up and say you are finding it difficult to understand, an example:

yeah, true ...BUT...if i tell a jock or a paddy that i cant understand a word they are saying so slow down a bit....they are more likely to laugh and oblige...say that to any other nationality...and you get "racist" stamped on your records, especially if its one of the "favoured" groups

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:43 am

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

Again didge you fail to read what I said.....I do NOT blame the immigrant for this...I clearly stated the establishment..is at fault.....the establishment YOU support...the tories have recently said they wont legislate to make companies do this....so THEY are sowing the seeds of discontent...now , sadly THAT reflects then back on the wrong people....

I do not even blame the establishment because there was no call for this until recently and mainly off a bias against Muslims, I blame the companies, as they are the ones who it is really down to label the food, which is going off the integration view we are having, This proves something like hala, a fear argument is being used not to integrate with Muslims

No doubt didge...BUT the point is very simple.....the govt could kill it dead tomorrow.....and they wont.....

you DONT gain any voters by being seen to not act, especially when acting would be recieved well by all concerned....

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:43 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

The thing is Victor you know full well this problem is found within local accents, so again it is about patience and not being afraid to speak up and say you are finding it difficult to understand, an example:

yeah, true ...BUT...if i tell a jock or a paddy that i cant understand a word they are saying so slow down a bit....they are more likely to laugh and oblige...say that to any other nationality...and you get "racist" stamped on your records, especially if its one of the "favoured" groups

Not if you ask politely Victor and say "sorry I am not being rude but I am having difficulty understanding your accent and as this is important medical advice I just want to be clear"
That is not be racist but showing you are having difficulties, which again I would question why you would again not change GP's or report it is difficult, to save having to ask.

by Tommy Monk Tue May 27, 2014 1:43 am

Tommy Monk wrote:There is no debate with you dodge, You just keep peddling your progressive agenda arguments.
Now you argue for integration but from the angle that it is British people who have to do this, changing their ways to accommodate others, and the problems are because the British have not bent over enough!!!
You seem to have this underlying attitude that not only do the British people have to accept mass immigration regardless of whether they want it or not, as well as tolerate others different ways, cultures, religions etc (which majority already do), but also that it is us who need to change from our ways to theirs to fit in, rather than them arriving here having to change more to fit in with them.
Now given that we have people here from every country in the world, And are tolerant and accepting of all of them, and that they come here by their own choice, wanting to live here in Britain and among us and by our laws and ways.....
How is we are expected to change?
Who/which specific people is It we are expected to change for exactly?
And why?

Answer the questions dodge....

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 1:44 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:

I do not even blame the establishment because there was no call for this until recently and mainly off a bias against Muslims, I blame the companies, as they are the ones who it is really down to label the food, which is going off the integration view we are having, This proves something like hala, a fear argument is being used not to integrate with Muslims

No doubt didge...BUT the point is very simple.....the govt could kill it dead tomorrow.....and they wont.....

you DONT gain any voters by being seen to not act, especially when acting would be recieved well by all concerned....

True they could but they also understand economics with the cost of doing so, something like this would have to be gradual.

by veya_victaous Tue May 27, 2014 1:54 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:define integration....

remember...I was here first, so I am NOT prepared to concede any rights I presently enjoy.
i expect the law of the land a) to remain as such and NOT be altered to accomodate religious or cultural interests from outside and b) to be applied equitably to ALL
I expect to NOT be subject to the religious requirements of "others" regardless of how "minor" that may be
(and that encompasses many things, which includes not having to put up with a stroppy, foul tempered co worker, who's blood sugar is low and he's hungry, hence in a foul mood...because its "fasting time"  )

As far as I am concerned, the whole damn world could camp here....just leave me be....I wont interfere with your life...dont you interfere with mine...and if that means you get a job, and I have to interact with you then FFS...learn to speak CLEAR english....I most certainly aint gonna learn YOUR language...and I object to YOU making me look a fool by having to ask you to repeat things six times because your accent makes your speech difficult to hear for me and impossible for Mrs Victor with her hearing problems...

That is bordering on unreasonable    they should try and learn English but you have to make allowances for someone learning a new language, being an ass to them just makes it harder and gives them less desire to learn, just so a rude Englishman can understand them better.

so when faced with a doctor muttering away in unintelligible english...I do what exactly??? this is critical....its not like ordering yer beers for the barbie

People can't help their accents... that attitude is as bad as the bloody French expecting people to learn French when the go to France for a holiday.

Yes they can...quite easily...accent is NOT like leaning another language, in fact unless deliberately maintained it is natural for a person to adopt the local accent...instinctive in fact....

Learn to speak the broken English that is ACTUALLY the language of the world.

and the fasting time thing is also crap,bull shit stop women doing crazy diets etc that make them unreasonable and thats true, not that women NEED a reason to be unreasonable

laws should change to be come more open and allow for more freedom, I agree that they shouldn't be asking for something that was legal to become illegal. but there are some things that can become legal like opening on Christmas and Sundays etc because you can get workers not following that religious time table.)yep and this has resulted in what?? workers who whilst not religious enjoyed the two day break, being forced to work sundays since they are "not religious" and since it is to them now a normal working day they get normal time instead of double time..great that....a real benefit of integration...less money in your pocket....it gives an opportunity to look at what has been illegal just because of some old religious dogma and remove that too.

that's why I said border line, in the case of a doctor yeah they need to be able to communicate but you shouldn't be concerned with having to ask them to slow down or in worse case write it down. if you still cant communicate change doctor.

And No my dad has been here for 50 years and now neither French nor Aussies can understand him clearly as his accent is a mix between the 2 Wink

people cannot help their accent, if someone comes from somewhere other than london (particualr northern places in UK) it is almost impossible to understand them even though they are speaking the England deviation of the glorious Australian tongue pirat

it is not Bullshit, heaps of people are less than perfect because they are hungry or hung over or just in a bad mood Rolling Eyes

And your supposed to be RW, think of the benefits to the employer tongue

I'm a contractor so I don't get penalty rates anyway, and can choose when I take time off, my only job security is my skills Wink

I have said before i may be LW in my ideals but i am still RW in my thinking, things need to be paid for and the economy needs to be strong to allow us to do good things

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 2:02 am

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

Not if you ask politely Victor and say "sorry I am not being rude but I am having difficulty understanding your accent and as this is important medical advice I just want to be clear"
That is not be racist but showing you are having difficulties, which again I would question why you would again not change GP's or report it is difficult, to save having to ask.

Its not GP's that the problem....HIM i can understand...Its A&E that bothers me....since i seem to be a regular visitor...mainly due to the fact that our gp's surgery cant even dress a nasty but not life threatening laceration..so its off to A&E for every non minor injury...either that or do it myself...which is fine and I have done so before...BUT.....

anyway back to the guy in A&E...3 times last year ....the twat tried to give me anti tetanus SERUM (not the anti tetanus vaccine) (if you know the difference)
now...I had the serum years back....and as such should NEVER have it again, due to the risk of anaphalaxis. (in fact i shouldnt have the vaccine...since I dont need a new jab for is it 15 years now?) Now A...its on my record that I've had the serum....and B)I told him so...strongly. eventually it got through to him...but fer gawds sake what part of NO does he not understand....and as you suggested I have reported him....I wont hold my breath......So far I have managed to stay away from the place this year...hopefully natural turnover may have moved him on by my next visit

Now, having said that one of the out of hours doctors up there is a Turk (i think) and he is BRILLIANT.....did wonders for my grandson ...

I guess what i want is faster harsher action against those who dont "measure up" ..again the problem isnt the "immigrant"...its the establishment....who could and should make sure that those who seek to take up such positions are IN ALL WAYS suitable.....

by Guest Tue May 27, 2014 2:09 am

anyway...to bed i must....

sleep well ....

by Tommy Monk Tue May 27, 2014 3:38 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:There is no debate with you dodge, You just keep peddling your progressive agenda arguments.
Now you argue for integration but from the angle that it is British people who have to do this, changing their ways to accommodate others, and the problems are because the British have not bent over enough!!!
You seem to have this underlying attitude that not only do the British people have to accept mass immigration regardless of whether they want it or not, as well as tolerate others different ways, cultures, religions etc (which majority already do), but also that it is us who need to change from our ways to theirs to fit in, rather than them arriving here having to change more to fit in with them.
Now given that we have people here from every country in the world, And are tolerant and accepting of all of them, and that they come here by their own choice, wanting to live here in Britain and among us and by our laws and ways.....
How is we are expected to change?
Who/which specific people is It we are expected to change for exactly?
And why?
Answer the questions dodge....

Still waiting.......

Now given that we have people here from every country in the world, And are tolerant and accepting of all of them, and that they come here by their own choice, wanting to live here in Britain and among us and by our laws and ways etc.....

How is it exactly that we need to change more to be more integrated with immigrants that we haven't already done?

As obviously, with all these different people here, it would be impossible for all of us to be expected to be all things to all of the different people here all of the time.....?

So the question really is......

Who/which specific people is It that you think we have to change for exactly for this integration?

And why is It that we have to change at all, in our own country, for the sake of others who arrive by their own choosing.... and should be doing all the changing to fit in with us if they want to come here and stay... or could easily not come in the first place or leave if they are so against us and our ways/freedoms/liberal attitudes etc...???

And why is It that this particular group are so intolerant that other peoples ways are so unacceptable yet they still come and then are so arrogant as to insist that only their ways are right and everybody else is wrong and has to change?????

I mean, most people come here to enjoy the freedoms we have, for a better life, away from oppressive dictatorial and religious regimes..... so why should we tolerate anybody arriving here and wishing to impose this here?

We have to change for them?

And I suppose that means everybody else here from everywhere else in the world has to change to their way too for them to be happy???

I think we all see who are the problem here......!!!

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