Chip shop owner forced to remove a 'racist' sign boasting that his business now had 'English owners' after threats to burn it down

First topic message reminder :

A chip shop owner has removed a ‘racist’ banner boasting that the business now had ‘English owners’, after his predecessor received threats to burn it down.

Previous owner Paul Bradbury - who put the sign up at The Chippy on the Green in Padiham, Lancashire, after taking it over last August - has gone back to Liverpool with his wife Rachel after shutting up shop.  

The couple had put a banner outside which said ‘Under new management with English owners’ - but Mr Bradbury said that he received two threatening phone calls from people calling him racist. They left the shop and moved away from the area earlier this year - and new owner Sotos Orfanides has now adapted the sign to read ‘Under new management with English meals’.  He said: ‘I don’t think the original sign was racist, but there was a big thing about it being racist. No one is racist in this shop. They were English and they were serving some English food. ‘I changed the sign because people were calling and threatening to burn the shop down.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2629054/Chip-shop-owner-forced-remove-racist-sign-boasting-business-English-owners.html#ixzz31mKPa5L6

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Then do not comment on it it is as simple as that, as others are interested in talking about it, show some respect to the people that do, of which it does matter to them

My point is that it's such a trivial thing to get worked up about. The real crime is the threats. I gather that the owner didn't want the police to follow them up - shame really.

Trivial?
Racism is now trivial, says it all really.
So the real problem was threats, even though by his own actions created the threats of which he did not even wish to pursue?
Odd that one eh he did not wish to proceed with
No threats are ever right and now wrong is ever right, but people also have to take responsibility for how their own racist views can inflame people, that does mean he should receive threats, but his actions were irresponsible and were born from his own racial views

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

My point is that it's such a trivial thing to get worked up about. The real crime is the threats. I gather that the owner didn't want the police to follow them up - shame really.

Trivial?
Racism is now trivial, says it all really.
So the real problem was threats, even though by his own actions created the threats of which he did not even wish to pursue?
No threats are ever right and now wrong is ever right, but people also have to take responsibility for how their own racist views can inflame people, that does mean he should receive threats, but his actions were irresponsible and were born from his own racial views

Getting worked up because someone said they were English is pretty silly.

You blame the victim of the threats, and I blame the people who made the threats.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Trivial?
Racism is now trivial, says it all really.
So the real problem was threats, even though by his own actions created the threats of which he did not even wish to pursue?
No threats are ever right and now wrong is ever right, but people also have to take responsibility for how their own racist views can inflame people, that does mean he should receive threats, but his actions were irresponsible and were born from his own racial views

Getting worked up because someone said they were English is pretty silly.

You blame the victim of the threats, and I blame the people who made the threats.

Posting a sign stating your racial views is even more absurd.

Threats?

He did not pursue any, odd that, more like people condemned him and rightly so.

Again you know very little of what such hate can lead to, I suggest again you start by reading some history or talk to a holocaust survivor, if indeed any are still alive today

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Getting worked up because someone said they were English is pretty silly.

You blame the victim of the threats, and I blame the people who made the threats.

Posting a sign stating your racial views is even more absurd.

Threats?

He did not pursue any, odd that, more like people condemned him and rightly so.

Again you know very little of what such hate can lead to, I suggest again you start by reading some history or talk to a holocaust survivor, if indeed any are still alive today

Like I said, if I saw a Chinese takeaway with a sign saying it was owned by Chinese people, I wouldn't think anything of it. I presume you would call the police or the council, and then sympathise with anyone who threatened the Chinese owners.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:




Posting a sign stating your racial views is even more absurd.

Threats?

He did not pursue any, odd that, more like people condemned him and rightly so.

Again you know very little of what such hate can lead to, I suggest again you start by reading some history or talk to a holocaust survivor, if indeed any are still alive today

Like I said, if I saw a Chinese takeaway with a sign saying it was owned by Chinese people, I wouldn't think anything of it. I presume you would call the police or the council, and then sympathise with anyone who threatened the Chinese owners.

Again that is your view, I have never seen such a sign made, though you ignore clearly this owner held racial views, which no doubt as seen by his own admittance was in my opinion made openly to people, which says more about people condemning him

Again I am not bought by the fact he was even threaten, when he did not pursue these so called threats, if you have threats to your life, you take them seriously, clearly he did not feel he was being threatened by dropping the matter with he Police.

Again your perceptions by your own admittance have no understanding of the affects of racism, and until you do understand how you view something is then unbalanced.

Anyway have things to do, until tomorrow

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Like I said, if I saw a Chinese takeaway with a sign saying it was owned by Chinese people, I wouldn't think anything of it. I presume you would call the police or the council, and then sympathise with anyone who threatened the Chinese owners.

Again that is your view, I have never seen such a sign made, though you ignore clearly this owner held racial views, which no doubt as seen by his own admittance was in my opinion made openly to people, which says more about people condemning him

Again I am not bought by the fact he was even threaten, when he did not pursue these so called threats, if you have threats to your life, you take them seriously, clearly he did not feel he was being threatened by dropping the matter with he Police.

Again your perceptions by your own admittance have no understanding of the affects of racism, and until you do understand how you view something is then unbalanced.

So you would do nothing if you saw such a sign on a Chinese takeaway then?

Nicely avoided.  ://?roflmao?/: 

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Getting worked up because someone said they were English is pretty silly.

You blame the victim of the threats, and I blame the people who made the threats.

Posting a sign stating your racial views is even more absurd.

Threats?

He did not pursue any, odd that, more like people condemned him and rightly so.

Again you know very little of what such hate can lead to, I suggest again you start by reading some history or talk to a holocaust survivor, if indeed any are still alive today

Like I said, if I saw a Chinese takeaway with a sign saying it was owned by Chinese people, I wouldn't think anything of it. I presume you would call the police or the council, and then sympathise with anyone who threatened the Chinese owners.

If I saw a sign in the window of a Chinese takeaway then I would expect the owners to be Chinese preparing and serving Chinese food . However, if I saw sign in the window of a chippy that the new owners were English then I probably wouldn't do anything either but I would think the owner was a bit of a dickhead.

But if I was in Shanghai and I saw a Fish and Chip shop that had a sign in the window that said the owners were English then I would think that's ok.

quisle quisle

You know what...Didge condemning L/W violence comes across as somewhat less sincere than "moderate" muslims condemning extremist violence....

beacuse one thing I'm willing to bet is that those threats cane from extremist L/W....NOT some "insulted other race"

One has to wonder just who is the biggest threat...

It's L/W councils that cancel christmas activities (usually)
It's L/W councils that ban "blackboards
and so on

Didge being the self hating quisling hwe is of course cannot see the wrongness of this issue....

apparantly it is now racist to declare oneself "english"

Would he, I wonder be so bloody pedantic and "anti"..if a second or third generation immigrant had (as he rightfully could) done the same thing

you bet your bloody life he wouldnt....

but then the L/W stormtroopers wouldnt have made the threats anyway....

The greatest danger to community cohesion in this country is not the immigrant....

It is the snivelling crotch licking belly crawling eunuch called a "progressive"

victorisnotamused wrote:The greatest danger to community cohesion in this country is not the immigrant....

It is the snivelling crotch licking belly crawling eunuch called a "progressive"

All your grumbling aside Vic; don't you think an English owner of an English Fish and Chip shop in England putting up a sign saying 'English owners' is a bit dumb?

Maybe they should have made the sign say 'English Chefs' instead of English owners.

After all, it is a selling point in good hotels and restaurants that the food is cooked by A French chef, or an Italian chef, or a chef from India. There is even an indian restaurant called 'Delhi Chefs'.

I'm struggling to see why it is acceptable to use a marketing strategy that advertises just how authentic their cuisine is because it is cooked by a chef from that country, and why advertising a chip shop with English owners is not.

Irn Bru wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Like I said, if I saw a Chinese takeaway with a sign saying it was owned by Chinese people, I wouldn't think anything of it. I presume you would call the police or the council, and then sympathise with anyone who threatened the Chinese owners.

If I saw a sign in the window of a Chinese takeaway then I would expect the owners to be Chinese preparing and serving Chinese food . However, if I saw sign in the window of a chippy that the new owners were English then I probably wouldn't do anything either but I would think the owner was a bit of a dickhead.

But if I was in Shanghai and I saw a Fish and Chip shop that had a sign in the window that said the owners were English then I would think that's ok.

Your  right Irn, as it's in England there is just no need to advertise the fact it's an a English owned chippy, it's unnecessary, daft and as good as trying to provoke ...it comes across as hateful.

And as you say if it's an English owned chippy in another country , well that can only be beneficial to others if it's advertised in the window...a taste oh home while abroad.

harvesmom wrote:Maybe they should have made the sign say 'English Chefs' instead of English owners.

After all, it is a selling point in good hotels and restaurants that the food is cooked by A French chef, or an Italian chef, or a chef from India. There is even an indian restaurant called 'Delhi Chefs'.

I'm struggling to see why it is acceptable to use a marketing strategy that advertises just how authentic their cuisine is because it is cooked by a chef from that country, and why advertising a chip shop with English owners is not.

I think it depends on specifics IF they were saying English Chefs doing Traditional English cooking ( :aspukeas: ) then that is fine, if the owner is just a racist and/or doing it because the one nearby is owned by a minority group that's a bit scummy.

Re: the threats ....if they were made (and the offenders found and are punished appropriately) then WHY didn't he go to the police?

Seriously if someone made threats against me or my family or livelihood I would be down the cop shop with every but of proof I could lay me hands on.

But it seems very fishy that he didn't. Perhaps he mis-read his customer base and his profits went down the toilet?

Personally I think he was an idiot but then again he has the right to be an idiot.








Bump. Anyone want to throw their 2 cents worth in on this?

Eilzel wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:The greatest danger to community cohesion in this country is not the immigrant....
It is the snivelling crotch licking belly crawling eunuch called a "progressive"

All your grumbling aside Vic; don't you think an English owner of an English Fish and Chip shop in England putting up a sign saying 'English owners' is a bit dumb?

Don't you think condemning and threatening an English owner of an English fish and chip shop in England for also just saying English owned is A bit dumb?

And an example of anti white English racism?

It is clear that those who complained are RACISTS towards this Englishman

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Again that is your view, I have never seen such a sign made, though you ignore clearly this owner held racial views, which no doubt as seen by his own admittance was in my opinion made openly to people, which says more about people condemning him

Again I am not bought by the fact he was even threaten, when he did not pursue these so called threats, if you have threats to your life, you take them seriously, clearly he did not feel he was being threatened by dropping the matter with he Police.

Again your perceptions by your own admittance have no understanding of the affects of racism, and until you do understand how you view something is then unbalanced.

So you would do nothing if you saw such a sign on a Chinese takeaway then?

Did I say I would do nothing?

Funny when you offer nothing you clutch at straws.

I would say the same, even more so if published in the media stating the following:

People want to know they are going to be served by somebody Chinese. People have said to us that they are glad somebody Chinese is serving them and that the sign made them want to come in

They’ve never had anyone in the shop before. We are advertising that we are Chinese.
'You wouldn’t want your Chinese served to you by someone English, or from wherever, because it wouldn’t be as good a recipe as it would be from somebody Chinese.

Anyway people miss the point, what was the issue with him placing a simple sign as many other premises do as follows:




Also if you read the story none of his bullshit makes any sense


‘The owner told officers he did not want to pursue the matter and so we can’t take any further action.’

Now can anyone see the contradiction here in his claim to wanting people to know he was English:


"They’ve never had anyone in the shop before. We are advertising that we are English.
'You wouldn’t want your fish and chips served to you by someone Turkish, or from wherever, because it wouldn’t be as good a recipe as it would be from somebody English.


The shop had previously been run by English people of East Asian and of Greek descent. It used to sell English and Chinese food, kebabs and pizza under Mr and Mrs Bradbury but is now going to mainly sell fish and chips.


So not only does it state the shop owners were English previously and clearly he did not view them as English to decide to announce they were not English but he and his wife was.

DOH

Even better he was selling Kebabs and pizza's, using his own absurd logic why did he not announce he had an Italian to make the pizza's and a Turk to make the Kebab's, as of course he would want the recipes to be the best using his racial view that they would not be able to make as good Kebab's and Pizza's as anyone from these these countries. Which we all know is absurd, because he was ousted for being a dickhead
Hence why is it is utter bull, he is idiotic as stated, who did not recognize the previous owners as English, proving my point his posters was racial in intent, even worse than that he contradicted himself on what he sold and made over who should make it .

So to answer your question Havesmum, you do not have to be Italian to be an Italian chef specialist, the same with any chef that specializes in a type of food.


I still see Victor is ranting because he has not figured out a reply yet to cultural pessimism, hee hee
So Victor does not believe in progression, thank goodness he was not around when the laws progressed for women's rights, gay rights etc, of course people wanting all these and bringing equality were all progressive

those complainers are clearly RACIST towards this Englishman

Vicar of Dibley wrote:those complainers are clearly RACIST towards this Englishman

Nope, as nothing was stated against him being English was wrong only that he as a person, is rather stupid and ignorant is seen, now if we can have Dibs back and not her hubby that would be great

Thanks

I don't think the sign was racist but it was stupid.

I can tell you something though, without the slightest hint of racism I can safely say, when I ring up my bank I heave a sigh of relief that I can understand the people answering the phone.

Lloyds advertised themselves at some point somewhere as having a "call centre in Wales"

We all knew what that meant: no more ringing a place in outerghanistan where me and the phone operator struggled to communicate.
I don't care where the people are from originally, as long as their accent doesn't make me keep asking "Pardon?"
(And I'm pretty good at understanding accents!)

How many of you prefer a clear English-speaking person to answer your call?

Now, if I want an Indian meal I'd rather it be cooked by an Indian person. I went to an Indian restaurant in Cornwall once and the owner was English. He was an excellent cook! He'd learned by living in India.
Could I tell the difference?
Nope.

So I don't think I'd care who cooked my fish and chips as they'd be sticking to a traditional recipe anyway!

But again, sometimes it is about nationalities!

Again, who prefers an English-speaking person answering their call????

eddie wrote:I don't think the sign was racist but it was stupid.


I can tell you something though, without the slightest hint of racism I can safely say, when I ring up my bank I heave a sigh of relief that I can understand the people answering the phone.

Lloyds advertised themselves at some point somewhere as having a "call centre in Wales"

We all knew what that meant: no more ringing a place in outerghanistan where me and the phone operator struggled to communicate.
I don't care where the people are from originally, as long as their accent doesn't make me keep asking "Pardon?"
(And I'm pretty good at understanding accents!)

How many of you prefer a clear English-speaking person to answer your call?

Now, if I want an Indian meal I'd rather it be cooked by an Indian person. I went to an Indian restaurant in Cornwall once and the owner was English. He was an excellent cook! He'd learned by living in India.
Could I tell the difference?
Nope.

So I don't think I'd care who cooked my fish and chips as they'd be sticking to a traditional recipe anyway!

But again, sometimes it is about nationalities!

Again, who prefers an English-speaking person answering their call????

Point one:  As seen the man was clearly racist as the previous owners were English

Point Two: i do not care what nationality I speak to as long as they understand and speak sufficient English

Point Three: Sorry that is silly to me to claim you would prefer someone from this country to another cooking types of food, when as seen you can specialize in any types of foods as chefs, when you have not even tried many say English people who are great chefs with Indian food.

Point Four: One of the advantages of multicultural, we are now seeing many traditional dishes spiced up as hybrid recipes, so no I would not care who makes it as long as they were excellent chefs

Point five: This was a fish and chip shop, not seen much expertise in food skills that go into fish and chips to be honest that you get from countless, as they are fast food takeaway's.

  

Now, can anyone please tell me why did didge bother answering my post like that when all he did was reiterate everything I said?????????

eddie wrote:  

Now, can anyone please tell me why did didge bother answering my post like that when all he did was reiterate everything I said?????????

No I disagreed with a few of your points and gave my views

You prefer an Indian person to cook you an Indian meal, I do not care who does it as long though that they are good chefs

Traditional recipe for chips in a chippy?

Racist owner, using a racist sign, being as the previous owners were English, thus classing them not as English

See different view points Eddie

Sign was stupid not racist.
Other than that, if you reread my post you're saying the same thing as me.

If you'd like a pin to split the hairs more, go and get one and knock yourself out.

eddie wrote:Sign was stupid not racist.
Other than that, if you reread my post you're saying the same thing as me.

If you'd like a pin to split the hairs more, go and get one and knock yourself out.

If the previous owners were English why would they have to state they were English Eddie?
He even stated this?

People want to know they are going to be served by somebody English. People have said to us that they are glad somebody English is serving them and that the sign made them want to come in.

The previous owners were English, so what he is claiming is nonsense



My other views were different as seen, but lets stick to this first point shall we?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So you would do nothing if you saw such a sign on a Chinese takeaway then?

Did I say I would do nothing?

Funny when you offer nothing you clutch at straws.

I would say the same, even more so if published in the media stating the following:

People want to know they are going to be served by somebody Chinese. People have said to us that they are glad somebody Chinese is serving them and that the sign made them want to come in

They’ve never had anyone in the shop before. We are advertising that we are Chinese.
'You wouldn’t want your Chinese served to you by someone English, or from wherever, because it wouldn’t be as good a recipe as it would be from somebody Chinese.

Anyway people miss the point, what was the issue with him placing a simple sign as many other premises do as follows:




Also if you read the story none of his bullshit makes any sense


‘The owner told officers he did not want to pursue the matter and so we can’t take any further action.’

Now can anyone see the contradiction here in his claim to wanting people to know he was English:


"They’ve never had anyone in the shop before. We are advertising that we are English.
'You wouldn’t want your fish and chips served to you by someone Turkish, or from wherever, because it wouldn’t be as good a recipe as it would be from somebody English.


The shop had previously been run by English people of East Asian and of Greek descent. It used to sell English and Chinese food, kebabs and pizza under Mr and Mrs Bradbury but is now going to mainly sell fish and chips.


So not only does it state the shop owners were English previously and clearly he did not view them as English to decide to announce they were not English but he and his wife was.

DOH

Even better he was selling Kebabs and pizza's, using his own absurd logic why did he not announce he had an Italian to make the pizza's and a Turk to make the Kebab's, as of course he would want the recipes to be the best using his racial view that they would not be able to make as good Kebab's and Pizza's as anyone from these these countries. Which we all know is absurd, because he was ousted for being a dickhead
Hence why is it is utter bull, he is idiotic as stated, who did not recognize the previous owners as English, proving my point his posters was racial in intent, even worse than that he contradicted himself on what he sold and made over who should make it .

So to answer your question Havesmum, you do not have to be Italian to be an Italian chef specialist, the same with any chef that specializes in a type of food.


I still see Victor is ranting because he has not figured out a reply yet to cultural pessimism, hee hee
So Victor does not believe in progression, thank goodness he was not around when the laws progressed for women's rights, gay rights etc, of course people wanting all these and bringing equality were all progressive

I wouldn't really care if Chinese people did all that, so that's where we differ.

The only think I'm bothered about re "racism" is double standards - ie, if an English person got a hard time over it, and a Chinese person did not.

I don't think they should have a banner at all anyway. It looks like a nice traditional street and the banner looks out of place.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Did I say I would do nothing?

Funny when you offer nothing you clutch at straws.

I would say the same, even more so if published in the media stating the following:

People want to know they are going to be served by somebody Chinese. People have said to us that they are glad somebody Chinese is serving them and that the sign made them want to come in

They’ve never had anyone in the shop before. We are advertising that we are Chinese.
'You wouldn’t want your Chinese served to you by someone English, or from wherever, because it wouldn’t be as good a recipe as it would be from somebody Chinese.

Anyway people miss the point, what was the issue with him placing a simple sign as many other premises do as follows:




Also if you read the story none of his bullshit makes any sense


‘The owner told officers he did not want to pursue the matter and so we can’t take any further action.’

Now can anyone see the contradiction here in his claim to wanting people to know he was English:


"They’ve never had anyone in the shop before. We are advertising that we are English.
'You wouldn’t want your fish and chips served to you by someone Turkish, or from wherever, because it wouldn’t be as good a recipe as it would be from somebody English.


The shop had previously been run by English people of East Asian and of Greek descent. It used to sell English and Chinese food, kebabs and pizza under Mr and Mrs Bradbury but is now going to mainly sell fish and chips.


So not only does it state the shop owners were English previously and clearly he did not view them as English to decide to announce they were not English but he and his wife was.

DOH

Even better he was selling Kebabs and pizza's, using his own absurd logic why did he not announce he had an Italian to make the pizza's and a Turk to make the Kebab's, as of course he would want the recipes to be the best using his racial view that they would not be able to make as good Kebab's and Pizza's as anyone from these these countries. Which we all know is absurd, because he was ousted for being a dickhead
Hence why is it is utter bull, he is idiotic as stated, who did not recognize the previous owners as English, proving my point his posters was racial in intent, even worse than that he contradicted himself on what he sold and made over who should make it .

So to answer your question Havesmum, you do not have to be Italian to be an Italian chef specialist, the same with any chef that specializes in a type of food.


I still see Victor is ranting because he has not figured out a reply yet to cultural pessimism, hee hee
So Victor does not believe in progression, thank goodness he was not around when the laws progressed for women's rights, gay rights etc, of course people wanting all these and bringing equality were all progressive

I wouldn't really care if Chinese people did all that, so that's where we differ.

The only think I'm bothered about re "racism" is double standards - ie, if an English person got a hard time over it, and a Chinese person did not.

I don't think they should have a banner at all anyway. It looks like a nice traditional street and the banner looks out of place.

There is no double standards, he did not give recognition to English people being English, in fact he classed them as non-English by his own views, he posted this for the world to see in bold letters claiming he was English, thus also claiming they were not.

That is racist

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I wouldn't really care if Chinese people did all that, so that's where we differ.

The only think I'm bothered about re "racism" is double standards - ie, if an English person got a hard time over it, and a Chinese person did not.

I don't think they should have a banner at all anyway. It looks like a nice traditional street and the banner looks out of place.

There is no double standards, he did not give recognition to English people being English, in fact he classed them as non-English, he posted this for the world to see in bold letters claiming he was English, thus also claiming they were not .

That is racist

I didn't say there were double standards. I was speaking generally, and just used this scenario as an example.

Why is it racist to say that an Asian or Greek person is not English?

Raggamuffin wrote:Why is it racist to say that an Asian or Greek person is not English?

Because they were English, even the Daily Mail was able to say they were.

So is Theo Walcot now not English?

Lenny Henry?

The couple are English of Asian ethnicity and Greek, see the difference?

Even the Daily Mail did not deny them their birth right to be English

Are you descended 100% back to the Angles?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Why is it racist to say that an Asian or Greek person is not English?

Because they were English, even the Daily Mail was able to say they were.

So is Theo Walcot now not English?

Lenny Henry?

The couple are English of Asian ethnicity and Greek, see the difference?

Even the Daily Mail did not deny them their birth right to be English

Are you descended 100% back the Angles?

You mean that anyone born in England is English? I guess it depends on how you define "English". I used to know someone with one English parent and one Greek parent, and she considered herself to be half Greek.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Because they were English, even the Daily Mail was able to say they were.

So is Theo Walcot now not English?

Lenny Henry?

The couple are English of Asian ethnicity and Greek, see the difference?

Even the Daily Mail did not deny them their birth right to be English

Are you descended 100% back the Angles?

You mean that anyone born in England is English? I guess it depends on how you define "English". I used to know someone with one English parent and one Greek parent, and she considered herself to be half Greek.

That is up to her is it not, is it up to you though to decide what she is?

No

Is it up to the chip shop owners to decide the previous owners were not English

No

See the point?

Again if we are being pedantic, only people really descended from Angles would be English as the name, comes from them as in Angleland.
Most people on one side are descended from ancient Britons, who were originally from the Basque area.
It is up to people themselves to define who they are and also by the law and birth right, not for others to do so.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You mean that anyone born in England is English? I guess it depends on how you define "English". I used to know someone with one English parent and one Greek parent, and she considered herself to be half Greek.

That is up to her is it not, is it up to you though to decide what she is?

No

Is it up to the chip shop owners to decide the previous owners were not English

No

See the point?

Again if we are being pedantic, only people really descended from Angles would be English as the name, comes from them as in Angleland.
Most people on one side are descended from ancient Britons, who were originally from the Basque area.
It is up to people themselves to define who they are and also by the law and birth right, not for others to do so.

I think the owners can decide how they define "English". If that doesn't agree with your idea of "English", that doesn't make them racist.

On the census form I don't think there was an option for non-white people to call themselves "English". Interesting?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


That is up to her is it not, is it up to you though to decide what she is?

No

Is it up to the chip shop owners to decide the previous owners were not English

No

See the point?

Again if we are being pedantic, only people really descended from Angles would be English as the name, comes from them as in Angleland.
Most people on one side are descended from ancient Britons, who were originally from the Basque area.
It is up to people themselves to define who they are and also by the law and birth right, not for others to do so.

I think the owners can decide how they define "English". If that doesn't agree with your idea of "English", that doesn't make them racist.

On the census form I don't think there was an option for non-white people to call themselves "English". Interesting?

ER no they cannot decide who they think is English as seen, based on the fact the couple were recognised as English, as seen they were racist to deny them being English. So they can think all they like about who they might think is English they cannot decide though who is English, thus it is racist, because by law the couple were English.


So Greeks are non-white now?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think the owners can decide how they define "English". If that doesn't agree with your idea of "English", that doesn't make them racist.

On the census form I don't think there was an option for non-white people to call themselves "English". Interesting?

ER no they cannot decide who they think is English as seen, based on the fact the couple were recognised as English, as seen they were racist to deny them being English. So they can think all they like about who they might think is English they cannot decide though who is English, thus it is racist, because by law the couple were English.
 

So Greeks are non-white now?

Of course they can decide who is English. If I had been born in India and someone said I wasn't Indian, I wouldn't say they had no right to say that.

Perhaps it's time there were further subdivisions in this "ethnicity" thing. Is "English" a legal term anyway? British is a nationality, but I'm not sure that English is.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


ER no they cannot decide who they think is English as seen, based on the fact the couple were recognised as English, as seen they were racist to deny them being English. So they can think all they like about who they might think is English they cannot decide though who is English, thus it is racist, because by law the couple were English.
 

So Greeks are non-white now?

Of course they can decide who is English. If I had been born in India and someone said I wasn't Indian, I wouldn't say they had no right to say that.

Perhaps it's time there were further subdivisions in this "ethnicity" thing. Is "English" a legal term anyway? British is a nationality, but I'm not sure that English is.

 ://?roflmao?/: 

Sorry it is not even worth a response, so basically, you are saying now anyone might as well decide what nationality people are, so today you are African, and Tess is Indian.
Nobody has a right to deny you what nationality you are.
So when do you get to join the English club then, when you decide?
I do not think so, they have no right and neither do you have a right to decide.
So basically, the future heir to the throne is not English using your logic

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Of course they can decide who is English. If I had been born in India and someone said I wasn't Indian, I wouldn't say they had no right to say that.

Perhaps it's time there were further subdivisions in this "ethnicity" thing. Is "English" a legal term anyway? British is a nationality, but I'm not sure that English is.

 ://?roflmao?/: 

Sorry it is not even worth a response, so basically, you are saying now anyone might as well decide what nationality people are, so today you are African, and Tess is Indian.
Nobody has a right to deny you what nationality you are.
So when do you get to join the English club then, when you decide?
I do not think so, they have no right and neither do you have a right to decide.
So basically, the future heir to the throne is not English using your logic

Why would someone say I was African?

I think you've lost the plot Didge.

Is English a nationality?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

 ://?roflmao?/: 

Sorry it is not even worth a response, so basically, you are saying now anyone might as well decide what nationality people are, so today you are African, and Tess is Indian.
Nobody has a right to deny you what nationality you are.
So when do you get to join the English club then, when you decide?
I do not think so, they have no right and neither do you have a right to decide.
So basically, the future heir to the throne is not English using your logic

Why would someone say I was African?

I think you've lost the plot Didge.

Is English a nationality?

I am showing up your absurd view points Ragga, thinking "you" can decide someone's nationality and yes English is a nationality


It also furthers my point you are really clueless when it comes to racism[/quote]

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why would someone say I was African?

I think you've lost the plot Didge.

Is English a nationality?

I am showing up your absurd view points Ragga, thinking "you" can decide someone's nationality and yes English is a nationality


It also furthers my point you are really clueless when it comes to racism

It depends on whether you consider English to be a nationality or an ethnic group I guess.

I think you make too much fuss over "racism" and you keep it all alive by doing so.

Raggamuffin wrote:
It depends on whether you consider English to be a nationality or an ethnic group I guess.

I think you make too much fuss over "racism" and you keep it all alive by doing so.  

English is both a nationality and an ethnicity

No I fight against racism and it sadly is still around and thus will continue to stand against such poor views.

Didge wrote:

English is both a nationality and an ethnicity

No I fight against racism and it sadly is still around and thus will continue to stand against such poor views.

So maybe that guy was talking about being English in an ethnic sense.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

English is both a nationality and an ethnicity

No I fight against racism and it sadly is still around and thus will continue to stand against such poor views.

So maybe that guy was talking about being English in an ethnic sense.

Behave Ragga, you are getting more absurd by the minute, look back at all he said, and do you know if he is again of English ethnicity himself, by that logic, descended back 100% to the Angles.
He made a statement he wanted people to know he was English, and yet the previous owners were also English, so are you suggesting that the English football team drop all black players?
So now Americans are not Americans, they are either English, African, Swedish etc then by your logic?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So maybe that guy was talking about being English in an ethnic sense.

Behave Ragga, you are getting more absurd by the minute, look back at all he said, and do you know if he is again of English ethnicity himself, by that logic, descended back 100% to the Angles.
He made a statement he wanted people to know he was English, and yet the previous owners were also English, so are you suggesting that the English football team drop all black players?
So now Americans are not Americans, they are either English, African, Swedish etc then by your logic?

Perhaps he didn't consider the previous owners to be English though. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you are saying that to be English is to be superior. Are you saying that?

It's a complex issue I agree, but people have different ideas about "race" or "ethnicity". It's the same in other parts of the world - like the people in Ukraine who say they are Russian.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Behave Ragga, you are getting more absurd by the minute, look back at all he said, and do you know if he is again of English ethnicity himself, by that logic, descended back 100% to the Angles.
He made a statement he wanted people to know he was English, and yet the previous owners were also English, so are you suggesting that the English football team drop all black players?
So now Americans are not Americans, they are either English, African, Swedish etc then by your logic?

Perhaps he didn't consider the previous owners to be English though. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you are saying that to be English is to be superior. Are you saying that?

It's a complex issue I agree, but people have different ideas about "race" or "ethnicity". It's the same in other parts of the world - like the people in Ukraine who say they are Russian.

English enough? Thus racist, thus showing you do not understand racism.
This really is getting boring to be honest, there is a problem if he denies them being English by openly stating this as he did, what he holds as a private view I could not give a shit, but by declaring he was English was stating loud and clear they were not to him and more importantly to the community, that is racist because the previous owners are English and the community thought so too, hence their outrage at the new owners.
You have also missed so many points and seem to think I will ignore you miss them when I answer always yours.
As to Ethnic Russians in Ukraine, that again is them as a minority stating they wish to have autonomy, but they are a minority, I am not denying them their right to their what they believe is their ethnicity of nationality, what is up for dispute is whether they can claim independence without the rest of the area let alone Ukraine voting on.
So again, as seen people are American because of what, even if they have different ethnic roots?
Is the heir to the throne English?
Who can be English?

Some points you dodge, time you answered

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Perhaps he didn't consider the previous owners to be English though. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you are saying that to be English is to be superior. Are you saying that?

It's a complex issue I agree, but people have different ideas about "race" or "ethnicity". It's the same in other parts of the world - like the people in Ukraine who say they are Russian.

English enough? Thus racist, thus showing you do not understand racism.
This really is getting boring to be honest, there is a problem if he denies them being English by openly stating this as he did, what he holds as a private view I could not give a shit, but by declaring he was English was stating loud and clear they were not to him and more importantly to the community, that is racist because the previous owners are  English and the community thought so too, hence their outrage at the new owners.
You have also missed so many points and seem to think I will ignore you miss them when I answer always yours.
As to Ethnic Russians in Ukraine, that again is them as a minority stating they wish to have autonomy, but they are a minority, I am not denying them their right to their what they believe is their ethnicity of nationality, what is up for dispute is whether they can claim independence without the rest of the area let alone Ukraine voting on.
So again, as seen people are American because of what, even if they have different ethnic roots?
Is the heir to the throne English?
Who can be English?

Some points you dodge, time you answered

What do you mean by "English enough"?

The man didn't say anything about the previous owners being English or not English - that's the spin you've put on it. You make such a fuss over everything, it's a wonder you can sleep at night.

So you think that "Ethnic Russians" exist but not "Ethnic English" people? Why are you denying English people the right to have their own ethnicity?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


English enough? Thus racist, thus showing you do not understand racism.
This really is getting boring to be honest, there is a problem if he denies them being English by openly stating this as he did, what he holds as a private view I could not give a shit, but by declaring he was English was stating loud and clear they were not to him and more importantly to the community, that is racist because the previous owners are  English and the community thought so too, hence their outrage at the new owners.
You have also missed so many points and seem to think I will ignore you miss them when I answer always yours.
As to Ethnic Russians in Ukraine, that again is them as a minority stating they wish to have autonomy, but they are a minority, I am not denying them their right to their what they believe is their ethnicity of nationality, what is up for dispute is whether they can claim independence without the rest of the area let alone Ukraine voting on.
So again, as seen people are American because of what, even if they have different ethnic roots?
Is the heir to the throne English?
Who can be English?

Some points you dodge, time you answered

What do you mean "English enough"?

The man didn't say anything about the previous owners being English or not English - that's the spin you've put on it. You make such a fuss over everything, it's a wonder you can sleep at night.

So you think that "Ethnic Russians" exist but not "Ethnic English" people? Why are you denying English people the right to have their own ethnicity?

Here we go round the mulberry bush.

Been through this argument already, read back.
So why did he need to announce he was English, when the previous owners were English and that he stated people wanted to be served by English being as the place had not many customers, though I think we know why he did not have many now?
I can do this all day, you are bags of fun to play with


Already stated English is an ethnicity, can you not read?

What do you think American English are?
Polish?

Still waiting for you to answer my questions

Her we go around the dodge the question time