Scrounger

sphinx wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Benefit fraud isn't just people claiming whilst they have a job, or inventing some kind of disability. It could include people who could get a job if they tried harder, or they could work because their disability allows them to, or it's under control. I think some people don't report improvements in their condition enough.

To be fair a lot of that is the systems fault - there is no allowance in it at the moment (Universal Credit does address the problem much better) for variability.  I have times when I could work and times when I most definitely could not.  If I managed to get over the problem of finding an employer who would take on someone with no idea from one day to the next whether they can work the next day I would really struggle with benefits as I could not claim and stop claiming and re claim and stop again.  It is bad enough for fully fit job seekers for whom it can take 6 weeks for each new claim to be processed (say a guy does a week agency work signs on for a week, does a week signs on for a week, etc) which means they rapidly reach the point of having no actual money as they wait for the benefits for the weeks they did not work but for those with health problems 13 weeks is optimistic when having to make a new claim.

I mean if someone reports an improvement and gets moved to JSA - then 2 weeks or even 2 months later they get worse again their JSA stops and they can be waiting weeks for ESA to start again.  In the meantime their confidence is rock bottom and they are quite simply scared of how they are going to manage.  This is why I cannot understand why people are picking universal credit to pieces - it allows people to move into work gradually knowing they have a safe income if it doesnt work out.

sphinx wrote:Well there is absolutely no way I can go back to doing a job involving a lot of physical effort which the job I took medical redundancy from did.

I am hopeful that I can now manage symptoms enough to take on part time work that is not physical but it is difficult to tell in advance whether upping any sort of activity level be it physical or mental is going to affect me.  I am looking to try and find work trials at the moment to get a better idea of what I could and could not manage.

sphinx wrote:Well there is absolutely no way I can go back to doing a job involving a lot of physical effort which the job I took medical redundancy from did.

I am hopeful that I can now manage symptoms enough to take on part time work that is not physical but it is difficult to tell in advance whether upping any sort of activity level be it physical or mental is going to affect me.  I am looking to try and find work trials at the moment to get a better idea of what I could and could not manage.

BigAndy9 wrote:5th May 2014

Some people say this is a typical scrounger.

This thread is for the benefit of our foreign posters who don't understand our English use of the word scrounger - it doesn't mean all people on benefits - read below to understand it better.

Joy Division wrote:

sphinx wrote:Well there is absolutely no way I can go back to doing a job involving a lot of physical effort which the job I took medical redundancy from did.

I am hopeful that I can now manage symptoms enough to take on part time work that is not physical but it is difficult to tell in advance whether upping any sort of activity level be it physical or mental is going to affect me.  I am looking to try and find work trials at the moment to get a better idea of what I could and could not manage.

...look I'm sorry, but you were saying basically the same thing on old ADO Sphinx, I just have to shake my head when I see you laying into others on benefits and the reason some are on DLA etc..lie only your problems are genuine but they are laying it on thick!!

  

Ben_Reilly wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:5th May 2014

Some people say this is a typical scrounger.

This thread is for the benefit of our foreign posters who don't understand our English use of the word scrounger - it doesn't mean all people on benefits - read below to understand it better.

You might also consider that people who aren't from England and don't live there, certainly are not "foreigners" any more than you are. Considering the way you (BigAndy) generally use the word "foreigner," I take offense to you calling me and other non-English people that.

sphinx wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


...look I'm sorry, but you were saying basically the same thing on old ADO Sphinx, I just have to shake my head when I see you laying into others on benefits and the reason some are on DLA etc..lie only your problems are genuine but they are laying it on thick!!

  

Again with the benefits JD.

Do you not understand my problem with the pictures is pain they are bringing to those whose relatives are crippled with depression?  Whose memories of holidays are of ruined possibilities?  I really do not give a shit if she is on benefits or not and I rather suspect right now she is likely to be on a retainer by the agent and not on benefits at all.  I give a shit because those pictures mean every relative of every serious depression sufferer is now facing well meaning people telling them they should take their relative on holiday and "have a break from it all".  You do not get a break from it all with depression.  It comes on holiday with you and holiday is about the last place you are going to have one of the occasional mood lifts because travelling brings all sorts of stresses and hopes and anxieties that tend to cause depression to go the other way from uplifting.

If Dee had MS or ME or fibro or cancer or Crohnes or sickle cell or any of the other 1001 variable conditions I would no doubt be sat here telling andy to learn about the condition and providing the evidence to back up your assertion that people on benefits are allowed holidays.  My problem is not that she is on holiday having a good time my problem is the thousands of people affected by depression who would dearly love to have a weekend off from the condition without even going somewhere different - a break from the condition would be worth more to them than any number of trips to Majorca but they are not going to get that because that is not how it works.  If you saw someone claiming allergy to peanuts eat a satay with no problems would you not challenge their claim?

This is not about beb

sphinx wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


...look I'm sorry, but you were saying basically the same thing on old ADO Sphinx, I just have to shake my head when I see you laying into others on benefits and the reason some are on DLA etc..lie only your problems are genuine but they are laying it on thick!!

  

Again with the benefits JD.

Do you not understand my problem with the pictures is pain they are bringing to those whose relatives are crippled with depression?  Whose memories of holidays are of ruined possibilities?  I really do not give a shit if she is on benefits or not and I rather suspect right now she is likely to be on a retainer by the agent and not on benefits at all.  I give a shit because those pictures mean every relative of every serious depression sufferer is now facing well meaning people telling them they should take their relative on holiday and "have a break from it all".  You do not get a break from it all with depression.  It comes on holiday with you and holiday is about the last place you are going to have one of the occasional mood lifts because travelling brings all sorts of stresses and hopes and anxieties that tend to cause depression to go the other way from uplifting.

If Dee had MS or ME or fibro or cancer or Crohnes or sickle cell or any of the other 1001 variable conditions I would no doubt be sat here telling andy to learn about the condition and providing the evidence to back up your assertion that people on benefits are allowed holidays.  My problem is not that she is on holiday having a good time my problem is the thousands of people affected by depression who would dearly love to have a weekend off from the condition without even going somewhere different - a break from the condition would be worth more to them than any number of trips to Majorca but they are not going to get that because that is not how it works.  If you saw someone claiming allergy to peanuts eat a satay with no problems would you not challenge their claim?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:5th May 2014

Some people say this is a typical scrounger.

This thread is for the benefit of our foreign posters who don't understand our English use of the word scrounger - it doesn't mean all people on benefits - read below to understand it better.

You might also consider that people who aren't from England and don't live there, certainly are not "foreigners" any more than you are. Considering the way you (BigAndy) generally use the word "foreigner," I take offense to you calling me and other non-English people that.

Sorry but that made me titter. It's a Brit invasion you know!   

FluffyBunny wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Again with the benefits JD.

Do you not understand my problem with the pictures is pain they are bringing to those whose relatives are crippled with depression?  Whose memories of holidays are of ruined possibilities?  I really do not give a shit if she is on benefits or not and I rather suspect right now she is likely to be on a retainer by the agent and not on benefits at all.  I give a shit because those pictures mean every relative of every serious depression sufferer is now facing well meaning people telling them they should take their relative on holiday and "have a break from it all".  You do not get a break from it all with depression.  It comes on holiday with you and holiday is about the last place you are going to have one of the occasional mood lifts because travelling brings all sorts of stresses and hopes and anxieties that tend to cause depression to go the other way from uplifting.

If Dee had MS or ME or fibro or cancer or Crohnes or sickle cell or any of the other 1001 variable conditions I would no doubt be sat here telling andy to learn about the condition and providing the evidence to back up your assertion that people on benefits are allowed holidays.  My problem is not that she is on holiday having a good time my problem is the thousands of people affected by depression who would dearly love to have a weekend off from the condition without even going somewhere different - a break from the condition would be worth more to them than any number of trips to Majorca but they are not going to get that because that is not how it works.  If you saw someone claiming allergy to peanuts eat a satay with no problems would you not challenge their claim?

Do you not have days when you feel ok?

Anti depressants are supposed to be excellent at regulating mood and do provide some good days albeit with side affects.

sphinx wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:

Do you not have days when you feel ok?

Anti depressants are supposed to be excellent at regulating mood and do provide some good days albeit with side affects.

Like I said if she had fibro I would not be having this debate.

I am well aware of what anti depressants can and cannot do, as well as the other treatments for depression.  I know about good days in depression.  My point is sufferers do not have any semblance of control over when the good days happen - they do not even have the option I have of "borrowing" a good day by paying with a really bad day.  Combined with that is the fact that going on holiday is more likely to worsen symptoms - that is if they can even get themselves (or rather be got) onto the holiday in the first .

There are a lot of conditions that the holiday could fit with - it just does not fit with depression.

FluffyBunny wrote:

sphinx wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:

Do you not have days when you feel ok?

Anti depressants are supposed to be excellent at regulating mood and do provide some good days albeit with side affects.

Like I said if she had fibro I would not be having this debate.

I am well aware of what anti depressants can and cannot do, as well as the other treatments for depression.  I know about good days in depression.  My point is sufferers do not have any semblance of control over when the good days happen - they do not even have the option I have of "borrowing" a good day by paying with a really bad day.  Combined with that is the fact that going on holiday is more likely to worsen symptoms - that is if they can even get themselves (or rather be got) onto the holiday in the first .

There are a lot of conditions that the holiday could fit with - it just does not fit with depression.

I agree with alot of your points,I have to be honest White Dee does not seem to have depression to me.I watched some parts of Benefits Street in the hope that all the RW menaces were wrong and just stereotyping but she didn't seem to have any sort of anxiety or depression,she was SO laid back and had  a very healthy sense of self.She seemed the epitome of high self esteem!

Without going into detail I know a bit about depression and like you say,its not just 'sadness',however you CAN plan for a holiday or a 'good day' by ensuring you take your medication.Again alot of anxiety would accompany said planning.White Dee doesn't exhibit any planning or anxiety.

But she is ONE person,I don't believe most benefit claimants are like her,I honesty don't.She had become the 'poster woman'if you like by the RW media to demonise ALL claimants and that's unfair.

FluffyBunny wrote:
I agree with alot of your points,I have to be honest White Dee does not seem to have depression to me.I watched some parts of Benefits Street in the hope that all the RW menaces were wrong and just stereotyping but she didn't seem to have any sort of anxiety or depression,she was SO laid back and had  a very healthy sense of self.She seemed the epitome of high self esteem!

Without going into detail I know a bit about depression and like you say,its not just 'sadness',however you CAN plan for a holiday or a 'good day' by ensuring you take your medication.Again alot of anxiety would accompany said planning.White Dee doesn't exhibit any planning or anxiety.

But she is ONE person,I don't believe most benefit claimants are like her,I honesty don't.She had become the 'poster woman'if you like by the RW media to demonise ALL claimants and that's unfair.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:

I agree with alot of your points,I have to be honest White Dee does not seem to have depression to me.I watched some parts of Benefits Street in the hope that all the RW menaces were wrong and just stereotyping but she didn't seem to have any sort of anxiety or depression,she was SO laid back and had  a very healthy sense of self.She seemed the epitome of high self esteem!

Without going into detail I know a bit about depression and like you say,its not just 'sadness',however you CAN plan for a holiday or a 'good day' by ensuring you take your medication.Again alot of anxiety would accompany said planning.White Dee doesn't exhibit any planning or anxiety.

But she is ONE person,I don't believe most benefit claimants are like her,I honesty don't.She had become the 'poster woman'if you like by the RW media to demonise ALL claimants and that's unfair.

And I don't think that anybody's under any delusion that this stuff is really just about cracking down on abuse of the system. Maybe the people carrying water for the cause feel that way, but at the top where the strings are being pulled, I'm sure it's really about cutting benefits, as it always has been in the U.S.

Raggamuffin wrote:I had a condition which could incapacitate me for a couple of days at a time. Luckily, it's under control now and I don't have to worry about it so much. There was a time when I wondered if I would have to leave my job though.

Jobless Oddball wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:
I agree with alot of your points,I have to be honest White Dee does not seem to have depression to me.I watched some parts of Benefits Street in the hope that all the RW menaces were wrong and just stereotyping but she didn't seem to have any sort of anxiety or depression,she was SO laid back and had  a very healthy sense of self.She seemed the epitome of high self esteem!

Without going into detail I know a bit about depression and like you say,its not just 'sadness',however you CAN plan for a holiday or a 'good day' by ensuring you take your medication.Again alot of anxiety would accompany said planning.White Dee doesn't exhibit any planning or anxiety.

But she is ONE person,I don't believe most benefit claimants are like her,I honesty don't.She had become the 'poster woman'if you like by the RW media to demonise ALL claimants and that's unfair.

I know you like to show people ya 'credentials' so any chance of showing us ya medical credentials??????????????????????????????????????  

FluffyBunny wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Like I said if she had fibro I would not be having this debate.

I am well aware of what anti depressants can and cannot do, as well as the other treatments for depression.  I know about good days in depression.  My point is sufferers do not have any semblance of control over when the good days happen - they do not even have the option I have of "borrowing" a good day by paying with a really bad day.  Combined with that is the fact that going on holiday is more likely to worsen symptoms - that is if they can even get themselves (or rather be got) onto the holiday in the first .

There are a lot of conditions that the holiday could fit with - it just does not fit with depression.

I agree with alot of your points,I have to be honest White Dee does not seem to have depression to me.I watched some parts of Benefits Street in the hope that all the RW menaces were wrong and just stereotyping but she didn't seem to have any sort of anxiety or depression,she was SO laid back and had  a very healthy sense of self.She seemed the epitome of high self esteem!

Without going into detail I know a bit about depression and like you say,its not just 'sadness',however you CAN plan for a holiday or a 'good day' by ensuring you take your medication.Again alot of anxiety would accompany said planning.White Dee doesn't exhibit any planning or anxiety.

But she is ONE person,I don't believe most benefit claimants are like her,I honesty don't.She had become the 'poster woman'if you like by the RW media to demonise ALL claimants and that's unfair.

Ben_Reilly wrote:And as far as not being able to afford holidays, etc., I'll never be able to afford the things that are enjoyed by people who inherited millions of dollars and have never had to work. Should I spend my days posting bashing comments about them here?

FluffyBunny wrote:A year studying psychology at uni

Males me an armchair psychologist   

Nems wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:And as far as not being able to afford holidays, etc., I'll never be able to afford the things that are enjoyed by people who inherited millions of dollars and have never had to work. Should I spend my days posting bashing comments about them here?

Inherited money is a completely different matter to being better of on benefits

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:And as far as not being able to afford holidays, etc., I'll never be able to afford the things that are enjoyed by people who inherited millions of dollars and have never had to work. Should I spend my days posting bashing comments about them here?

Inherited money is a completely different matter to being better of on benefits

Yes, because it's not just about money, it's about fairness.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, because it's not just about money, it's about fairness.

Because people who inherit money deserve it, while people who inherit no money didn't deserve any?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

Inherited money is a completely different matter to being better of on benefits

Yes, because it's not just about money, it's about fairness.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, because it's not just about money, it's about fairness.

Because people who inherit money deserve it, while people who inherit no money didn't deserve any?

Nems wrote:White Dee is a scrounger. Thats why the programme focussed on her, a genuine person would not have fitted with their programme brief.

Nems wrote:White Dee is a scrounger. Thats why the programme focussed on her, a genuine person would not have fitted with their programme brief.

harvesmom wrote:

Nems wrote:White Dee is a scrounger. Thats why the programme focussed on her, a genuine person would not have fitted with their programme brief.

She is. Lets be absolutely honest here, she got sacked from a job at the council after stealing money, knew she had no chance of ever getting another job with that hanging over her and so decided she was depressed. During the programme she even told her 15 year old daughter not to bother trying to get a job, to live on benefits like everyone else. The woman is a national disgrace.

Raggamuffin wrote:

harvesmom wrote:

She is. Lets be absolutely honest here, she got sacked from a job at the council after stealing money, knew she had no chance of ever getting another job with that hanging over her and so decided she was depressed. During the programme she even told her 15 year old daughter not to bother trying to get a job, to live on benefits like everyone else. The woman is a national disgrace.

So is the system if she's allowed to get away with it.

sphinx wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So is the system if she's allowed to get away with it.

Ah but it is cheaper to have people with depression declared unfit for work and claiming benefits than it is to provide the treatment and support that would enable them to continue in or return to work even though doing so would be far better for the sufferers.

The same is true for fibromyalgia.

Raggamuffin wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Ah but it is cheaper to have people with depression declared unfit for work and claiming benefits than it is to provide the treatment and support that would enable them to continue in or return to work even though doing so would be far better for the sufferers.

The same is true for fibromyalgia.

She doesn't need support though.

sphinx wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

She doesn't need support though.

No in her case it is that no-one will ever employ her with her history of stealing from an employer - and proving she is fit for work is more expensive than letting her claim.

Raggamuffin wrote:

sphinx wrote:

No in her case it is that no-one will ever employ her with her history of stealing from an employer - and proving she is fit for work is more expensive than letting her claim.

Then the system is wrong. I wonder how many other people are allowed to claim because it's easier to let them.

sphinx wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

She doesn't need support though.

No in her case it is that no-one will ever employ her with her history of stealing from an employer - and proving she is fit for work is more expensive than letting her claim.

harvesmom wrote:

sphinx wrote:

No in her case it is that no-one will ever employ her with her history of stealing from an employer - and proving she is fit for work is more expensive than letting her claim.

It is, but really how do you prove whether someone is depressed or not anyway?

harvesmom wrote:

It is, but really how do you prove whether someone is depressed or not anyway?

Raggamuffin wrote:

harvesmom wrote:

It is, but really how do you prove whether someone is depressed or not anyway?

Surveillance. That would provide jobs for loads of people.   

Jobless Oddball wrote:

harvesmom wrote:

It is, but really how do you prove whether someone is depressed or not anyway?

Maybe you should ask Stooo or Raggamuffin???????????????????????????????????????? ::dunno:: 

harvesmom wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Surveillance. That would provide jobs for loads of people.   

Actually its scary the lengths people will go to to claim disability benefit or whatever its called. My Ex's next door neighbour could barely walk, used a walking frame, had a motability car etc. We went to Spain on holiday, guess who we bumped into at a water park    running round the place like a spring chicken he was. No sign of even a limp   Bet we ruined his holiday!

harvesmom wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Surveillance. That would provide jobs for loads of people.   

Actually its scary the lengths people will go to to claim disability benefit or whatever its called. My Ex's next door neighbour could barely walk, used a walking frame, had a motability car etc. We went to Spain on holiday, guess who we bumped into at a water park    running round the place like a spring chicken he was. No sign of even a limp   Bet we ruined his holiday!

Raggamuffin wrote:

harvesmom wrote:

Actually its scary the lengths people will go to to claim disability benefit or whatever its called. My Ex's next door neighbour could barely walk, used a walking frame, had a motability car etc. We went to Spain on holiday, guess who we bumped into at a water park    running round the place like a spring chicken he was. No sign of even a limp   Bet we ruined his holiday!

I hope he got caught and fined a large amount.   

Joy Division wrote:Sphinx why you not working yet?, you've  been on the invalidity benefits thing since at least 2010...dossing around all day long will only rot the body and mind further....

I thought you said those in receipt of benefits ( so long as they are not severely disabled or terminal) should not depend on benefits for too long?...

Surely you can be working as your more than able to stoop over a computer all day.

Why should we pay our taxes to keep you?...what makes you so special Sphinx?

sphinx wrote:

Joy Division wrote:Sphinx why you not working yet?, you've  been on the invalidity benefits thing since at least 2010...dossing around all day long will only rot the body and mind further....

I thought you said those in receipt of benefits ( so long as they are not severely disabled or terminal) should not depend on benefits for too long?...

Surely you can be working as your more than able to stoop over a computer all day.

Why should we pay our taxes to keep you?...what makes you so special Sphinx?

I have been on benefits since I was made medically redundant in 2006 JD.

Contribution based benefits stop after 12 months - I am on income based which last as long as the illness - things like Multiple sclerosis or HIV can severely impact on a persons ability without always shortening life expectancy.  Fibromyalgia is recognized as such a condition.

Unfortunately I do not stoop over the computer - I am led 3/4 horizontal the majority of the time I am using it.  My typing rate is not fast enough and I am not accurate enough to work as data entry.  Employers in general are unwilling to provide a work station where I can lie down.

Since being transferred to ESA I have been working with a specialist employment advisor at the job centre who knows far more about me than you do - and together we have been looking at multiple avenues.  Unfortunately the jobs I have applied for I have not for various reasons got.

Now perhaps you can explain to me and the other readers of this forum why is so important to you than I do turn out to be a fraud.

Jobless Oddball wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:A year studying psychology at uni

Males me an armchair psychologist   

I hope your armchair is cleaner than your headboard??????????????????????????????????? ::smthg:: 

FluffyBunny wrote:

sphinx wrote:

I have been on benefits since I was made medically redundant in 2006 JD.

Contribution based benefits stop after 12 months - I am on income based which last as long as the illness - things like Multiple sclerosis or HIV can severely impact on a persons ability without always shortening life expectancy.  Fibromyalgia is recognized as such a condition.

Unfortunately I do not stoop over the computer - I am led 3/4 horizontal the majority of the time I am using it.  My typing rate is not fast enough and I am not accurate enough to work as data entry.  Employers in general are unwilling to provide a work station where I can lie down.

Since being transferred to ESA I have been working with a specialist employment advisor at the job centre who knows far more about me than you do - and together we have been looking at multiple avenues.  Unfortunately the jobs I have applied for I have not for various reasons got.

Now perhaps you can explain to me and the other readers of this forum why is so important to you than I do turn out to be a fraud.

I hope you find work that is suitable for you soon and I think you sound determined,alot of people in your situation would be despondent.Good for you! x

This is why I don't judge people's circumstances or what i ASSUME to be their circumstances because every person and situation is unique and it's very easy to judge wrongly when not in possession of all the facts.

sphinx wrote:

Joy Division wrote:Sphinx why you not working yet?, you've  been on the invalidity benefits thing since at least 2010...dossing around all day long will only rot the body and mind further....

I thought you said those in receipt of benefits ( so long as they are not severely disabled or terminal) should not depend on benefits for too long?...

Surely you can be working as your more than able to stoop over a computer all day.

Why should we pay our taxes to keep you?...what makes you so special Sphinx?

I have been on benefits since I was made medically redundant in 2006 JD.

Contribution based benefits stop after 12 months - I am on income based which last as long as the illness - things like Multiple sclerosis or HIV can severely impact on a persons ability without always shortening life expectancy.  Fibromyalgia is recognized as such a condition.

Unfortunately I do not stoop over the computer - I am led 3/4 horizontal the majority of the time I am using it.  My typing rate is not fast enough and I am not accurate enough to work as data entry.  Employers in general are unwilling to provide a work station where I can lie down.

Since being transferred to ESA I have been working with a specialist employment advisor at the job centre who knows far more about me than you do - and together we have been looking at multiple avenues.  Unfortunately the jobs I have applied for I have not for various reasons got.

Now perhaps you can explain to me and the other readers of this forum why is so important to you than I do turn out to be a fraud.

sphinx wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:

I hope you find work that is suitable for you soon and I think you sound determined,alot of people in your situation would be despondent.Good for you! x

This is why I don't judge people's circumstances or what i ASSUME to be their circumstances because every person and situation is unique and it's very easy to judge wrongly when not in possession of all the facts.

It is a harder struggle than I like to accept - I have been struggling a long time and am not much further forward hence why JD picks at me.

However I am not giving up.