Ukip understands people will always want someone to blame

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 10:28 pm

Ukip understands people will always want someone to blame

Orwell was wrong, the English will accept a far-right government, so long as it’s dressed up in silliness and accompanied by a farting trombone.

Why can nobody stop Nigel Farage? With just weeks to go before the European and local elections, the threat posed by Ukip and its charismatic leader is finally being taken seriously but it’s far too late. For too long, the main response of the political classes has been to scoff at a party that, since it cannot speak the language of “the people”, speaks the language of popular television comedies, complete with awkward racist blunders. But there’s nothing to laugh about.

Farage is not alone: he is part of a frightening pattern. Across Europe, candidates from the libertarian nationalist fringe are emerging to fill the void where hope should be with their vicious cocktail of prejudice and anti-politics. They capitalise upon broad resentment of the financial and political elite and popular longing for an alternative, any alternative. Absolutely all they have in common with “ordinary” voters is the fact that the centre-right establishment doesn’t understand them, doesn’t trust them and would like them to shut up and show respect.

Given that the Tory base shares many of Ukip’s core beliefs about immigration and European integration, its leaders can only hope that they’ll swallow a watered-down version of Farage’s arguments while pretending he does not exist. Nor can they rely on the nuclear option of pointing out that Farage is a privately-educated, expenses-grubbing former banker, because the same applies to much of the cabinet, and anyway, integrity is not Farage’s selling point. The fact that he draws a sizeable salary from his full-time political work, claims every possible taxpayer-funded expense from Europe and employs his German wife as his secretary has not hurt Farage, because it turns out the public have ceased to believe in honest politicians and would prefer to vote for a crook who’s upfront about it.

Nobody expects integrity or decency from Farage and they duly get neither. What they get, and what the British press has furnished with endless primetime platforms and wall-to-voting-booth-coverage, is a genuinely talented television personality who seems to be honest about his own hypocrisies. When journalists finally, timidly put the expenses question to him, he confirmed that he saw no problem with ripping Europe off. In this time of bland and faceless political insincerity, Farage gives the appearance of a likeable rogue who at least has his hands on the table where you can see them.

In reality, one of the hands is under the table pointing a gun at your nethers, like Johnny Depp as Eyeless Jack in Once Upon A Time In Mexico, and I absolutely promise you that that’s the only time I’ll ever mention Johnny Depp and Nigel Farage in the same sentence.

Farage comes across as a friendly spiv; in fact, he is is a thug. He is leading the sort of party that has no qualms about exploiting racial prejudice and hatred of foreigners in order to strengthen its base. Ukip is the sort of party that speaks for the people only in the sense that it taps into the cramped and ugly part of the collective psyche that would stamp on the other chap for a chance at revenge. Ukip is the sort of party that supports the interests of business whil speaking the language of socialism. Ukip is the sort of party that has to declare in its strapline that it is not racist, which makes it about as not racist as anyone’s racist uncle. Ukip gets away with all of this and more because it is the only vehicle representing public rage and contempt for the what Farage calls “career politicians and their friends in business”, as if he is not one of them.

The British political class does not understand how badly it has alienated its voter base. It does not understand the rage against a democratic system that has failed to provide any coherent, liveable alternatives to falling wages, rising rents and persistent unemployment. From within Westminster, it is impossible to comprehend how out-of touch politicians look, how much the expenses scandal meant, and continues to mean, for people who do not drink in the taxpayer-subsidised Commons bars.

Ukip understands that when people have given up on change, when people have given up hope, they will still get out of bed for someone to blame. A significant portion of its votes come not from the Lib Dems or the Tories, but from previous non-voters. The entire comment spectrum on left and right seems to treat the people who plan to vote for Ukip and similar meatheaded, vicious right-wing parties like cattle who must be herded towards right-thinking. They hope that simply pointing out the racial prejudice of the new party’s core platform, as with the latest, last-ditch, zero-hour cross party campaign to brand Ukip as “Euracist”, will cause the cattle to come to their senses.

The problem is that people already know. Oh, they may quibble about the dictionary definition of racism, but people know, in their hearts, that Ukip is a party of prejudice that blames people who look different, talk different and comes from elsewhere for structural social injustice. They know. They just don’t care enough to change their vote. They don’t care because as much as they may like their neighbours, they hate the political classes and fear the uncertain future far more, and for that particular change in public mood, the Conservatives need only inspect the mirror in the any of those parliamentary bars.

As soon as Farage was put on a televised podium next to Nick Clegg, he’d won, and not only because he is the better public speaker, witty and brash and not lashed to a party line. The Liberal Democrats have everything to lose, having traded away every scrap of popular respect for power in that bile-raising way that should have become more palatable after four years but somehow hasn’t. By contrast, Ukip lose nothing when people laugh at them. Clegg looked like an acting student auditioning for a serious drama, when the audience knows, and Farage knows, that he is acting in a farce.

George Orwell once famously wrote that the reason goose-stepping fascists would never gain a shiny-booted toehold in Britain was that they would be laughed at. Unfortunately, he was wrong. If real far-right hegemony arrives in Britain, this is what it will look like. It will look ridiculous. It will set its unserious self against the serious politicians everyone loathes, and the British people - and, in particular, the English people - will giggle it all the way into Downing Street, accompanied not by a Wagnerian overture but a farting trombone.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/ukip-understands-people-will-always-want-someone-blame

True unfortunately. He panders to the worst in people, and people give him their worst.

I've said before, after the last war people thought electorates could not be manipulated by Farage's type again. It appears they can. Lord help the human race, because they seem intent on being the worst they can be.

by Raggamuffin Sun May 04, 2014 10:35 pm

See? I said that Nigel Farage was charismatic. ::D::

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 10:36 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:See? I said that Nigel Farage was charismatic. ::D::

No, people appear to think that a circus is in town when a clown appears, and start to clap.

by Fluffyx Sun May 04, 2014 10:38 pm

I have said it before Sassy,if people in this country want UKIP,if they are that soul less in their hearts, then they will have what they deserve.

I give up on people to be honest.

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 10:40 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:I have said it before Sassy,if people in this country want UKIP,if they are that soul less in their hearts, then they will have what they deserve.

I give up on people to be honest.

I know just what you mean. Trouble is, people who vote for UKIP deserve everything they get, but they won't be them getting it, it will be the people that UKIP hate and we will end up like Ukraine.

by Fluffyx Sun May 04, 2014 10:44 pm

Sassy wrote:
FluffyBunny wrote:I have said it before Sassy,if people in this country want UKIP,if they are that soul less in their hearts, then they will have what they deserve.

I give up on people to be honest.

I know just what you mean. Trouble is, people who vote for UKIP deserve everything they get, but they won't be them getting it, it will be the people that UKIP hate and we will end up like Ukraine.

Excuse my ignorance but what is happening in the Ukraine? Are they very hard on people?

by Raggamuffin Sun May 04, 2014 10:45 pm

Well I'm not voting for a party which took us into a war with another country. I say war, but it was an invasion really. I'm not voting for a party who went ahead whilst Rumsfeld smirked about "shock and awe". I'm also not voting for a party which would like to bring back hunting with dogs.

That leaves the LibDems or UKIP really. Hmmmmmm

by Fluffyx Sun May 04, 2014 10:50 pm

They are the party of division and fear and that's what they will bring.

by Raggamuffin Sun May 04, 2014 10:52 pm

The point is that a lot of people just don't know which way to turn. I think the expenses scandal hit a lot of people hard. Can you imagine being given the honour of representing people and then doing that to them?

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 10:53 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
Sassy wrote:

I know just what you mean. Trouble is, people who vote for UKIP deserve everything they get, but they won't be them getting it, it will be the people that UKIP hate and we will end up like Ukraine.

Excuse my ignorance but what is happening in the Ukraine? Are they very hard on people?

Virtual Civil War Fluff, and Russia trying to take over and maybe the beginning of WWIII!!!! pale

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 10:56 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:The point is that a lot of people just don't know which way to turn. I think the expenses scandal hit a lot of people hard. Can you imagine being given the honour of representing people and then doing that to them?

I agree, I'm as mad about that as anyone, don't know a person who isn't. However, I don't think turning to an openly racist party, whatever they say, led by someone who is as bad, if not worse, and is ripping off money from the EU, where he was elected to represent us and refuses to, is quite the answer. An ex banker and public schoolboy, exactly the kind of person we are trying to get rid of. The only difference between him and David Cameron is he drinks pints and is a bit of a drunkard Rolling Eyes

by Raggamuffin Sun May 04, 2014 10:59 pm

Sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:The point is that a lot of people just don't know which way to turn. I think the expenses scandal hit a lot of people hard. Can you imagine being given the honour of representing people and then doing that to them?

I agree, I'm as mad about that as anyone, don't know a person who isn't. However, I don't think turning to an openly racist party, whatever they say, led by someone who is as bad, if not worse, and is ripping off money from the EU, where he was elected to represent us and refuses to, is quite the answer. An ex banker and public schoolboy, exactly the kind of person we are trying to get rid of. The only difference between him and David Cameron is he drinks pints and is a bit of a drunkard

I wonder if it's worth voting at all. I feel I should though because of the ladies who chained themselves to railings on behalf of women.

Nigel Farage is still the "underdog" when it comes politics, so he hasn't had the chance to mess things up, and that's why many people will give UKIP the benefit of the doubt IMO.

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 11:01 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Sassy wrote:

I agree, I'm as mad about that as anyone, don't know a person who isn't. However, I don't think turning to an openly racist party, whatever they say, led by someone who is as bad, if not worse, and is ripping off money from the EU, where he was elected to represent us and refuses to, is quite the answer. An ex banker and public schoolboy, exactly the kind of person we are trying to get rid of. The only difference between him and David Cameron is he drinks pints and is a bit of a drunkard

I wonder if it's worth voting at all. I feel I should though because of the ladies who chained themselves to railings on behalf of women.

Nigel Farage is still the "underdog" when it comes politics, so he hasn't had the chance to mess things up, and that's why many people will give UKIP the benefit of the doubt IMO.

You mean instead of actually listening to him and his representatives and realising what a load of racist twonks they are? If that's the case, there is no hope for anything, because that's a pretty pathetic reason to give a vote to a party, when they are going to effect what happens in your life for years to come.

by Raggamuffin Sun May 04, 2014 11:10 pm

Sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I wonder if it's worth voting at all. I feel I should though because of the ladies who chained themselves to railings on behalf of women.

Nigel Farage is still the "underdog" when it comes politics, so he hasn't had the chance to mess things up, and that's why many people will give UKIP the benefit of the doubt IMO.

You mean instead of actually listening to him and his representatives and realising what a load of racist twonks they are? If that's the case, there is no hope for anything, because that's a pretty pathetic reason to give a vote to a party, when they are going to effect what happens in your life for years to come.

Have you never come across tactical voting? It happens in every election.

Anyway, Nigel Farage doesn't come across that way - even you must see that. There is no such thing as the perfect political party, and people will generally prioritise the issues that are important to them and ignore the rest. telling people that UKIP are "bad" won't make any difference - the other parties have to become "good" in order to retain their voters.

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 11:15 pm

Nigel Farage comes across exactly that way. No, there isn't a perfect political party, but the very worst of those that stand any chance of getting any seats, is UKIP. I'd rather not vote than vote for them and what they stand for.

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 11:16 pm

I notice haow you blame "the people" when you know as well as I, and that article reinforces it...the blame, if UKIP gained power, would lie squarely in the lap of the present parties.

we have a tory govt that is nothing short of evil, beholden only to its financial masters and intent on creating a servile peseant class
then we have a labour party, which is a traitor to its origins and is likewise beholden only to the big finance...
weak and pathetic in defense of "working people" labour is also intent on creating a class of servile supporters

neither are either left or right per se, but exist in some sort of impossible, wishy washy "centrist" zone, where the ONLY thing that matters is their own pockets.

People will vote for UKIP becasue they are sick to the back teeth of the crap of the last 30 odd years.

hilariously enough, people like Didge are their best recruitment agency
peoplw who, in the face of all common sense scream racist at anyone who dares to make the slightest comment disagreeing that the over blown immigration we have had is the best thing since sliced bread..

people like Brown calling that woman a "bigot"...yeah that really helped to adress the very real concerns she had.
didge screaming racist at me for wanting Halal labeled so I can make my choice...with all the brainless waffle he made of it...

and there are bucket loads of people like those two..

cocky and overbearing, who daily "lecture" people on what they should think.
As I have ALWAYS said the liberalist (progressive ) is THE most poisonous creature on earth...and people are beginning to see that.

confident that people ALWAYS vote for their pocket these idiots have assumed that they can ALWAYS count on election "bribes" and false promises of "better to come" I think this time they may be proven wrong. The reality is that people vote with their HEARTS...and anyone who can capture the hearts of enough people WILL get the votes.

UKIP is after the hearts of the "disillusioned" After 30 years of contempt and derision from BOTH labour AND tory alike...there are a LOT of disillusioned voters around...enough perhaps to carry UKIP to power.

and what do the parties presently engaged promise...

MORE OF THE SAME...tories will keep squeezing the poor, both working and non working
labour is weak and pathetic in its response...ball-less and barren of ideas.

For ALL its faults, UKIP resonates with an increasing majority of voyers who have had it to their back teelth with the browns and didges of this world...guess what....."we aint listening to your mealy mouthed lies and platitudes any more"

it is also a matter of debate as to whether the increasing voter base for UKIP actually CARES that UKIP in downing street could cause chaos. I think there is a growing feeling that even that would be preferable to the present creeping stagnation and dullness that lib/lab/con represents

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 11:20 pm

I think that the article makes very clear that the blame lies with what has happened with the expenses scandals and all the rest of it Victor that have given UKIP a foothold. However, that doesn't mean that the ordinary voter has to be completely stupid. As for Labour being weak and pathetic, I think you are going to be quite surprised in the next few months. There are some policies being discussed that might set the Tories back a bit. The start was the curb on rents. The next might be re-nationalisation of the railways to keep control of prices for comuters and to make sure the the money is spent on infrastructure and not shareholders and huge salaries.

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 11:32 pm

Sassy wrote:I think that the article makes very clear that the blame lies with what has happened with the expenses scandals and all the rest of it Victor that have given UKIP a foothold. However, that doesn't mean that the ordinary voter has to be completely stupid. As for Labour being weak and pathetic, I think you are going to be quite surprised in the next few months. There are some policies being discussed that might set the Tories back a bit. The start was the curb on rents. The next might be re-nationalisation of the railways to keep control of prices for comuters and to make sure the the money is spent on infrastructure and not shareholders and huge salaries.

again you see...that matriarchal/patriarchal "we know best and if you dont agree you are stupid attitude..."

The (il)liberalist mantra...."DO AS WE SAY"" WE KNOW BEST" and if you dont agree...you are either stupid or SIXHIRB

EXACTLY why people will vote UKIP

YOU DONT TELL PEOPLE WHO'S VOTE YOU WANT that they are stupid...or racist...or anything else-ist

you gain their confidence and vote by addressing AND ACTING ON their concerns, speedily and properly

labour wont do anything...because they only have "half policies"...again...all hot air, empty promises and waffle...

they are going to do this and that....and more besides....

and yet NO idea of how they are going to finance it...

Labour sold its soul to mammon with NU-labour...few will trust them to be what they should ever again....

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 11:39 pm

Oh they realise what happened with NU-Labour, which is why there has been a complete turnaround within it and radical proposals that would have been slapped down a few years ago are now at the forefront. Nu-labour is out of the picture, and the views or ordinary members are at the forefront. They have spent a great deal of effort on the internet listening to their members, it's been a hugely enjoyable process to finally see old style Labour re-emerging. It's been possible to discuss from the comfort of your own computer and have your opinion taken into consideration. I can't see that any other party have been doing that. And they know exactly how they are going to finance it, that has been at the forefront, no new policy without making sure the numbers add up.

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 11:48 pm

Vote UKIP

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 11:49 pm

And if you are as big a twonk as Smelly, you probably will.

by Guest Sun May 04, 2014 11:52 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
Sassy wrote:I think that the article makes very clear that the blame lies with what has happened with the expenses scandals and all the rest of it Victor that have given UKIP a foothold. However, that doesn't mean that the ordinary voter has to be completely stupid. As for Labour being weak and pathetic, I think you are going to be quite surprised in the next few months. There are some policies being discussed that might set the Tories back a bit. The start was the curb on rents. The next might be re-nationalisation of the railways to keep control of prices for comuters and to make sure the the money is spent on infrastructure and not shareholders and huge salaries.

again you see...that matriarchal/patriarchal "we know best and if you dont agree you are stupid attitude..."

The (il)liberalist mantra...."DO AS WE SAY"" WE KNOW BEST" and if you dont agree...you are either stupid or SIXHIRB

EXACTLY why people will vote UKIP

YOU DONT TELL PEOPLE WHO'S VOTE YOU WANT that they are stupid...or racist...or anything else-ist

you gain their confidence and vote by addressing AND ACTING ON their concerns, speedily and properly

labour wont do anything...because they only have "half policies"...again...all hot air, empty promises and waffle...

they are going to do this and that....and more besides....

and yet NO idea of how they are going to finance it...

Labour sold its soul to mammon with NU-labour...few will trust them to be what they should ever again....

PS Victor, it is stupid to say that bankers and MPs who ripped off their expensives caused all the problems, and then vote from a banker who is ripping off his MEP expenses.

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 12:01 am

very nice...and here's the problem.....

convince me....

because.....

politicians lie every time their lips move.

Also...where are the policies to reverse the council house sell off
to adress the problem of energy bills (the only way to do it is to renationalise them all)
not to mention their (and not soley "their") policy of setting one group against another to mask their weaknesses and "hidden agendas"?

where are their policies to deal with peoples concerns over immigration (other than labelling the dissenters "racist")

where are their policies to deal with peoples increasing distaste for europe (other than labeling dissenters "xenophobic")

where are their policies for dealing with peoples increasing distaste for the misuse of the EHRA by our politically motivated judiciary??

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 12:11 am

victorisnotamused wrote:very nice...and here's the problem.....

convince me....

because.....

politicians lie every time their lips move.

Also...where are the policies to reverse the council house sell off
to adress the problem of energy bills (the only way to do it is to renationalise them all)
not to mention their (and not soley "their") policy of setting one group against another to mask their weaknesses and "hidden agendas"?

where are their policies to deal with peoples concerns over immigration (other than labelling the dissenters "racist")

where are their policies to deal with peoples increasing distaste for europe (other than labeling dissenters "xenophobic")

where are their policies for dealing with peoples increasing distaste for the misuse of the EHRA by our politically motivated judiciary??

Number 1, you think UKIP will address those? They don't know which way up they are.

Number 2, not everyone sees the EU as problem.

Housing is top of the agenda, starting with rents, because a very many people rent now, and more will be doing so in the future, because buying will be out of everyone's league until the housing market can be brought back under control. The other thing is house building, which I think you will find that they announced the policy of building a huge number of houses back last November (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-pledges-billions-to-build-200000-new-homes-per-year-if-it-wins-next-election-8952691.html) and that has all been costed as well. Labour were the first to talk about addressing energy bills, which the Conservatives went barmy about and then realised they had to do something because the policy was so popular. They published a green paper last November (http://www.policyconnect.org.uk/wsbf/news/labour-publishes-green-paper-energy).

There is a whole load more still being discussed.

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 12:12 am

Sassy wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

again you see...that matriarchal/patriarchal "we know best and if you dont agree you are stupid attitude..."

The (il)liberalist mantra...."DO AS WE SAY"" WE KNOW BEST" and if you dont agree...you are either stupid or SIXHIRB

EXACTLY why people will vote UKIP

YOU DONT TELL PEOPLE WHO'S VOTE YOU WANT that they are stupid...or racist...or anything else-ist

you gain their confidence and vote by addressing AND ACTING ON their concerns, speedily and properly

labour wont do anything...because they only have "half policies"...again...all hot air, empty promises and waffle...

they are going to do this and that....and more besides....

and yet NO idea of how they are going to finance it...

Labour sold its soul to mammon with NU-labour...few will trust them to be what they should ever again....

PS Victor, it is stupid to say that bankers and MPs who ripped off their expensives caused all the problems, and then vote from a banker who is ripping off his MEP expenses.

Again you expect logic from an electorate pissed off by being called idiots and bigots......
people WILL vote for an honest thief....
farage admits...with a cheeky grin.......... thats what he's doing....and people like him for it
why? because as the article says he's a rogue with his hands on the table Unlike the dirty underhand "pretend its not happening" attitude of the persent bunch...

corruption is rife in britain...in all walks of life...but its hidden and everyone pretends it doesnt happen....so joe average is at a disadvantage...because he doesnt know whos palm to cross with silver or when....

go to some nations abroad where its rather more open and EVERYONE knows which official to "talk to" to get your planning application through.
I'm NOT saying thats right OR the way to go...BUT it is a reason why ....

and the voters get a schadenfreude moment from seeing the EU getting a taste of its own....

Farage is doing something which resonates with an angry and disillusioned electorate....he's taking the piss out of the system and its dearly held mores....
he is a good speaker, he is humerous, disrespectful and a VERY good judge of people....

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 12:15 am

I totally disagree, he has one hand on the table and the other pointing a gun at your bollocks. And he is taking the piss out of the electorate, not the system. He's not a good judge of people, he's a good manipulator of people.

If people vote for him, I think it is something they, and their children, will regret for many years.

Anyway, I'm for bed, blessed be Victor.

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 12:19 am

Sassy wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:very nice...and here's the problem.....

convince me....

because.....

politicians lie every time their lips move.

Also...where are the policies to reverse the council house sell off
to adress the problem of energy bills (the only way to do it is to renationalise them all)
not to mention their (and not soley "their") policy of setting one group against another to mask their weaknesses and "hidden agendas"?

where are their policies to deal with peoples concerns over immigration (other than labelling the dissenters "racist")

where are their policies to deal with peoples increasing distaste for europe (other than labeling dissenters "xenophobic")

where are their policies for dealing with peoples increasing distaste for the misuse of the EHRA by our politically motivated judiciary??

Number 1, you think UKIP will address those? They don't know which way up they are.

Agreed BUT...it matters not...that was actually a personal challenge...most voters are not "policy specific" to that level

Number 2, not everyone sees the EU as problem.

again agreed...but a hell of a lot DO...and dont appreciate being labled "xenophobic" for it......

Housing is top of the agenda, starting with rents, because a very many people rent now, and more will be doing so in the future, because buying will be out of everyone's league until the housing market can be brought back under control. The other thing is house building, which I think you will find that they announced the policy of building a huge number of houses back last November (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-pledges-billions-to-build-200000-new-homes-per-year-if-it-wins-next-election-8952691.html) and that has all be costed as well. Labour were the first to talk about addressing energy bills, which the Conservatives went barmy about and then realised they had to do something because the policy was so popular. They published a green paper last November (http://www.policyconnect.org.uk/wsbf/news/labour-publishes-green-paper-energy).

yep...and labour will build those quarter million homes where.... in rural areas...thus pissing off many voters....what about the brownfield sites that are available by the million acre???? this is what I mean by "half policies"...yes we need those homes...BUT.....no thought to the consequences of their policies....

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 12:33 am

The housing policy has been extremely well thought out, but you can't have your cake and eat it, some of it will have to be new towns, but it is impossible to fulfill the housing need without them.

Labour also plans to increase government borrowing to fund more building by councils and housing associations. Although a final decision will be taken closer to the 2015 election, it could channel an extra £10bn into such social housing. Labour has promised to stick within the Coalition’s ceiling on day-to-day spending by government departments, which includes frontline services and wages, for the 2015-16 financial year but plans to outspend it on building projects. Its housebuilding programme would also provide a stimulus for the economy and create tens of thousands of jobs in the construction industry, Labour will argue as it makes housing a key dividing line at the election.

“If we are to meet that target of at least 200,000 new homes a year by the end of the next parliament, while protecting communities, preserving valuable green belt land, avoiding haphazard urban sprawl and encouraging quality housing in sustainable communities , then every community will need to play its part and plan for the next generation. But we are also clear that we cannot deliver this ambition unless we build new towns.”

The shadow Chancellor will argue: “Britain simply won’t be able to tackle the cost-of-living crisis that we currently face – or build the strong economy that we need to take us to a more prosperous future – unless we build more homes. Housing must be at the centre of Britain’s economic policy.”

From the link I gave you.

They are talking Victor, and planning, and costing, you're just not listening at the moment lol

Anyway, eyes closing lol

by Tommy Monk Mon May 05, 2014 1:52 am

Top posts Victor!!!!!

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 2:58 am

Vote ukip.

by veya_victaous Mon May 05, 2014 3:28 am

While both the Big parties probably suck balls....
Seriously? is UKip the best alternative you got?????

You Should vote for this Duck.... Running the same Distraction scam.

Ukip understands people will always want someone to blame When_birds_attack_24

Ukip understands people will always want someone to blame When_birds_attack_24

by Ben Reilly Mon May 05, 2014 4:52 am

Really, people who vote UKIP get what they deserve. Unfortunately the fools would hurt a lot of innocent bystanders in the process.

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 6:59 am

victorisnotamused wrote:very nice...and here's the problem.....

convince me....

because.....

politicians lie every time their lips move.

Also...where are the policies to reverse the council house sell off
to adress the problem of energy bills (the only way to do it is to renationalise them all)
not to mention their (and not soley "their") policy of setting one group against another to mask their weaknesses and "hidden agendas"?

where are their policies to deal with peoples concerns over immigration (other than labelling the dissenters "racist")

where are their policies to deal with peoples increasing distaste for europe (other than labeling dissenters "xenophobic")

where are their policies for dealing with peoples increasing distaste for the misuse of the EHRA by our politically motivated judiciary??

You get labeled a xenophobe because you use xenophobic arguments as you do against Muslim for example, not that having a genuine concern in regards to immigration, like housing, schools, hospitals which is not xenophobic. Xenophobic is when you promote fears about ethnic or religious groups of people, and you do that, I do not call genuine people of which there are others here like Sphinx for example who has genuine concerns, she though does not use xenophobic arguments.

The fact is most people are concerned about the EU, though most from poor scare stories by UKIP for example. there is part of the problem, but the majority would like to negotiate the EU policies going forward as there is also advantages for staying within the EU. Though you seem to go for the angry bitter approach which is not even a reasonable view to argue. I have not read people having any distaste for Europe, that is a new on for me, maybe you can elaborate.

The reality is UKIP does use scare tactics, about immigration and the EU, we have seen this where there was mass hysteria from UKIP over Romania and Bulgaaria, which has not even come close to the scare tactics that UKIP portrayed. People want the UK to have the right to govern itself, but think many would be happy to have this alongside still being a part of the EU.

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 9:02 am

And who is to blame for every other problem since 2008?

Oh yes, the evil bankers...

by Raggamuffin Mon May 05, 2014 9:53 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Really, people who vote UKIP get what they deserve. Unfortunately the fools would hurt a lot of innocent bystanders in the process.

You could say that about anyone who votes for any political party really.

by veya_victaous Mon May 05, 2014 10:11 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Really, people who vote UKIP get what they deserve. Unfortunately the fools would hurt a lot of innocent bystanders in the process.

You could say that about anyone who votes for any political party really.

that is true :::grouch::

Do you have compulsory voting in England?
I know they don't in the USA, did we inherit it from England or did we think up that brilliant idea (it is probably better tongue

)

by Raggamuffin Mon May 05, 2014 10:12 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You could say that about anyone who votes for any political party really.

that is true :::grouch::

Do you have compulsory voting in England?
I know they don't in the USA, did we inherit it from England or did we think up that brilliant idea (it is probably better )

No we don't. Now that would make things very interesting. Laughing

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 10:15 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Really, people who vote UKIP get what they deserve. Unfortunately the fools would hurt a lot of innocent bystanders in the process.

Democracy is fun, isn't it?

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 10:20 am

Sassy wrote:
FluffyBunny wrote:

Excuse my ignorance but what is happening in the Ukraine? Are they very hard on people?

Virtual Civil War Fluff, and Russia trying to take over and maybe the beginning of WWIII!!!!

by veya_victaous Mon May 05, 2014 10:22 am

Samhraí wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Really, people who vote UKIP get what they deserve. Unfortunately the fools would hurt a lot of innocent bystanders in the process.

Democracy is fun, isn't it?

NO

Ukip understands people will always want someone to blame Termin11

by Raggamuffin Mon May 05, 2014 11:00 am

Here's an interesting article about UKIP. I pinched this from another forum tbh.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/04/ukip-asian-labour-voters

There are some interesting points in there from immigrants themselves.

Firstly, that immigrants used to stand on their own two feet when they came here, and now they get loads of help - this leads to some resentment apparently.

Secondly, that some immigrants do not spend their money in this country, they send it back to their own country.

Thirdly, that immigrants who came here ages ago now have children who find it hard to get jobs or houses because of new immigrants.

Are those sorts of views reasonable?

by Raggamuffin Mon May 05, 2014 11:13 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Sassy wrote:

Number 1, you think UKIP will address those? They don't know which way up they are.

Agreed BUT...it matters not...that was actually a personal challenge...most voters are not "policy specific" to that level

Number 2, not everyone sees the EU as problem.

again agreed...but a hell of a lot DO...and dont appreciate being labled "xenophobic" for it......

Housing is top of the agenda, starting with rents, because a very many people rent now, and more will be doing so in the future, because buying will be out of everyone's league until the housing market can be brought back under control. The other thing is house building, which I think you will find that they announced the policy of building a huge number of houses back last November (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-pledges-billions-to-build-200000-new-homes-per-year-if-it-wins-next-election-8952691.html) and that has all be costed as well. Labour were the first to talk about addressing energy bills, which the Conservatives went barmy about and then realised they had to do something because the policy was so popular. They published a green paper last November (http://www.policyconnect.org.uk/wsbf/news/labour-publishes-green-paper-energy).

yep...and labour will build those quarter million homes where.... in rural areas...thus pissing off many voters....what about the brownfield sites that are available by the million acre???? this is what I mean by "half policies"...yes we need those homes...BUT.....no thought to the consequences of their policies....

Do you not think that it's better to build completely new towns rather than just adding on to existing ones? I think what really pisses people off is seeing their towns ruined by vast new estates. The planners just don't seem to think it through. They don't think about the huge amount of traffic that generates, often in towns which weren't originally built for cars. The don't think about the infrastructure of the towns re schools, doctors, jobs, etc.

Of course it's cheaper than building new towns, but it's just ruining so many nice towns.

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 11:19 am

Sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I wonder if it's worth voting at all. I feel I should though because of the ladies who chained themselves to railings on behalf of women.

Nigel Farage is still the "underdog" when it comes politics, so he hasn't had the chance to mess things up, and that's why many people will give UKIP the benefit of the doubt IMO.

You mean instead of actually listening to him and his representatives and realising what a load of racist twonks they are? If that's the case, there is no hope for anything, because that's a pretty pathetic reason to give a vote to a party, when they are going to effect what happens in your life for years to come.

You mean unlike people who have never listened to them and pontificate about the party being racist when they have never had the grace to go along and listen to what the party is saying.

Perhaps you can explain what is racist about the desire to sort out a trade agreement with the group of African nations that has been lobbying the EU for such an agreement which would allow them to trade out of poverty and reduce dependence on aid and which would see price reductions for consumers in the EU - but which the EU is refusing point blank because a small amount of the products would be direct competition with EU farmers who would loose out as they could not provide as much as cheap.

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 1:41 pm

sphinx wrote:
Sassy wrote:

You mean instead of actually listening to him and his representatives and realising what a load of racist twonks they are? If that's the case, there is no hope for anything, because that's a pretty pathetic reason to give a vote to a party, when they are going to effect what happens in your life for years to come.

You mean unlike people who have never listened to them and pontificate about the party being racist when they have never had the grace to go along and listen to what the party is saying.

Perhaps you can explain what is racist about the desire to sort out a trade agreement with the group of African nations that has been lobbying the EU for such an agreement which would allow them to trade out of poverty and reduce dependence on aid and which would see price reductions for consumers in the EU - but which the EU is refusing point blank because a small amount of the products would be direct competition with EU farmers who would loose out as they could not provide as much as cheap.

Really that is news to me, when you are not even telling the full picture are you Sphinx being as some of the African nations are protecting their market from the EU, so it is not how you are trying to make out in any shape or form. Much of these is in the form of standards and such nations do not want to comply and you might want to ask yourself why actually before making such unfounded statements. So it is many African nations that re actually holding back from this and not the other way around, because in fact you leave out the part of more aid as part of the deal in the first place which is being hindered by West African nations.

It does help if you tell the full story

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 1:49 pm

You would know far more about the whole story if you actually went along to a UKIP public meeting and listened to a party with a desire to open up our country to trade with the world - trade that is being restricted by the EU.

I know it is far easier to sit there and make accusations of racism and having no policies if you carefully make sure you do not go anywhere near them but it really does diminish you that you refuse to go anywhere that risks giving you the answers you claim to be seeking.

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 1:55 pm

sphinx wrote:You would know far more about the whole story if you actually went along to a UKIP public meeting and listened to a party with a desire to open up our country to trade with the world - trade that is being restricted by the EU.

I know it is far easier to sit there and make accusations of racism and having no policies if you carefully make sure you do not go anywhere near them but it really does diminish you that you refuse to go anywhere that risks giving you the answers you claim to be seeking.

Oh behave Sphinx, I can do my own research thanks and do not need to be fed gullible propaganda, as I have seen the many lies proposed by UKIP over the EU as it uses scare tactics over them. Yes they are winning the battle of eurosceptism, mainly because nobody has challenged many of their views, but to claim I am some how ignorant of their policies, is an insult in itself. So please do not give some copout bull that you buy into, because I have seen the scare tactics for myself in regards to UKIP daily, like claiming all Romanians and Bulgarians are going to come here from Jan 1st.

So you may be gullible, I am not, but one thing I do no know is that UKIP is certainly not honest over the EU debate and far from it, you would realise this is you bothered to research yourself. Fair play if you want to believe them, but they are far from honest and this people ill begin to see

by Tommy Monk Mon May 05, 2014 2:39 pm

I think it would be best to reduce the need for new homes and ease the massive pressure on housing overall by limiting the massive immigration that it causing it!

And lib lab con are all the same, all pro EU, all pro miss immigration, so UKIP are the ONLY alternative!

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 3:31 pm

Didge wrote:
sphinx wrote:You would know far more about the whole story if you actually went along to a UKIP public meeting and listened to a party with a desire to open up our country to trade with the world - trade that is being restricted by the EU.

I know it is far easier to sit there and make accusations of racism and having no policies if you carefully make sure you do not go anywhere near them but it really does diminish you that you refuse to go anywhere that risks giving you the answers you claim to be seeking.

Oh behave Sphinx, I can do my own research thanks and do not need to be fed gullible propaganda, as I have seen the many lies proposed by UKIP over the EU as it uses scare tactics over them. Yes they are winning the battle of eurosceptism, mainly because nobody has challenged many of their views, but to claim I am some how ignorant of their policies, is an insult in itself. So please do not give some copout bull that you buy into, because I have seen the scare tactics for myself in regards to UKIP daily, like claiming all Romanians and Bulgarians are going to come here from Jan 1st.

So you may be gullible, I am not, but one thing I do no know is that UKIP is certainly not honest over the EU debate and far from it, you would realise this is you bothered to research yourself. Fair play if you want to believe them, but they are far from honest and this people ill begin to see

Well didge its like this - I am involved with party and see and experience what goes on at an intimate level, and then read people like you describing what you think goes on which is so far different from the reality of my experiences its laughable. Its like hearing other people gossip about what goes on in your marriage, so uninformed it amuses.

As for challenging - well why dont you challenge then? I mean I keep hearing people declaring UKIP are only doing so well because nobody challenges but then still nobody does challenge. If there are these wonderful so simple challenges that would immediately change most peoples opinions if only they could be heard well then where are they? I do not mean the "this horrible thing and that horrible thing which will happen if we leave" - that is not challenging that is a worse sort of scaremongering than you accuse UKIP of (then never claimed all the Romanians and Bulgarians would claim they stated that they could come and we are now powerless to stop them) as it is saying "you must stay in this situation which you dont like and which disadvantages you because if you leave you will be deliberately punished and damaged"

So where as these wonderful challenges Didge? You know all about them why not share them with us and stop being a smug selfish bastard letting us make fools of ourselves when you know the wonderful reality that you wont share with us.

by Guest Mon May 05, 2014 3:39 pm

sphinx wrote:
Didge wrote:

Oh behave Sphinx, I can do my own research thanks and do not need to be fed gullible propaganda, as I have seen the many lies proposed by UKIP over the EU as it uses scare tactics over them. Yes they are winning the battle of eurosceptism, mainly because nobody has challenged many of their views, but to claim I am some how ignorant of their policies, is an insult in itself. So please do not give some copout bull that you buy into, because I have seen the scare tactics for myself in regards to UKIP daily, like claiming all Romanians and Bulgarians are going to come here from Jan 1st.

So you may be gullible, I am not, but one thing I do no know is that UKIP is certainly not honest over the EU debate and far from it, you would realise this is you bothered to research yourself. Fair play if you want to believe them, but they are far from honest and this people ill begin to see

Well didge its like this - I am involved with party and see and experience what goes on at an intimate level, and then read people like you describing what you think goes on which is so far different from the reality of my experiences its laughable. Its like hearing other people gossip about what goes on in your marriage, so uninformed it amuses.

As for challenging - well why dont you challenge then? I mean I keep hearing people declaring UKIP are only doing so well because nobody challenges but then still nobody does challenge. If there are these wonderful so simple challenges that would immediately change most peoples opinions if only they could be heard well then where are they? I do not mean the "this horrible thing and that horrible thing which will happen if we leave" - that is not challenging that is a worse sort of scaremongering than you accuse UKIP of (then never claimed all the Romanians and Bulgarians would claim they stated that they could come and we are now powerless to stop them) as it is saying "you must stay in this situation which you dont like and which disadvantages you because if you leave you will be deliberately punished and damaged"

So where as these wonderful challenges Didge? You know all about them why not share them with us and stop being a smug selfish bastard letting us make fools of ourselves when you know the wonderful reality that you wont share with us.

Good post Sphinx.

by veya_victaous Mon May 05, 2014 11:21 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:
Sassy wrote:

Number 1, you think UKIP will address those? They don't know which way up they are.

Agreed BUT...it matters not...that was actually a personal challenge...most voters are not "policy specific" to that level

Number 2, not everyone sees the EU as problem.

again agreed...but a hell of a lot DO...and dont appreciate being labled "xenophobic" for it......

Housing is top of the agenda, starting with rents, because a very many people rent now, and more will be doing so in the future, because buying will be out of everyone's league until the housing market can be brought back under control. The other thing is house building, which I think you will find that they announced the policy of building a huge number of houses back last November (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-pledges-billions-to-build-200000-new-homes-per-year-if-it-wins-next-election-8952691.html) and that has all be costed as well. Labour were the first to talk about addressing energy bills, which the Conservatives went barmy about and then realised they had to do something because the policy was so popular. They published a green paper last November (http://www.policyconnect.org.uk/wsbf/news/labour-publishes-green-paper-energy).

yep...and labour will build those quarter million homes where.... in rural areas...thus pissing off many voters....what about the brownfield sites that are available by the million acre???? this is what I mean by "half policies"...yes we need those homes...BUT.....no thought to the consequences of their policies....

Do you not think that it's better to build completely new towns rather than just adding on to existing ones? I think what really pisses people off is seeing their towns ruined by vast new estates. The planners just don't seem to think it through. They don't think about the huge amount of traffic that generates, often in towns which weren't originally built for cars. The don't think about the infrastructure of the towns re schools, doctors, jobs, etc.

Of course it's cheaper than building new towns, but it's just ruining so many nice towns.

HUH I think I found your problem Suspect

Why have they not been modernised yet? I can understand keeping a few as tourist attraction/museum but seriously Suspect

it is 2014 if a town can cope with cars level it an build a proper town!!! not some medieval throw back.

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