Anti-hate crime Muslim campaign group attacked for supporting gay rights

The Muslim anti-hate crime campaign group Tell MAMA has been criticised for having a “reformist agenda” after it appointed human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell as its patron.
Last month, Peter Tatchell became one of the first openly gay persons appointed to a senior role in a mainstream, non-gay Muslim organisation.

However, Fiyaz Mughal, the chairman of Tell MAMA has said he is now facing backlash from members of the Islamic community for overstepping a “stated remit.”
According to The Sunday Express, the backlash started after he had responded to statements made by Dr Mohammed Naseem, the chairman of the Birmingham Central Mosque, after Naseem compared being gay to being a “compulsive gambler, murder, peadophile, etc.”

Responding to these attacks, Mr Mughal told the Sunday Express: “We’re clear. If you are homophobic or anti-Semitic, you can’t campaign against anti-Muslim prejudice.
“The two things just do not go together. If you’re an intolerant figure against someone else, you can’t then cry wolf when something happens to you. We’ll stand against intolerance in all communities.”

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/04/06/uk-anti-hate-crime-Muslim-campaign-group-attacked-for-supporting-gay-rights/

Ben_Reilly wrote:Wow, we keep seeing these stories which clearly demonstrate that Muslims are not all of one mind on different issues. That faint, pathetic crumbling sound you may hear is bigots' worlds falling apart ...

victorisnotamused wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Wow, we keep seeing these stories which clearly demonstrate that Muslims are not all of one mind on different issues. That faint, pathetic crumbling sound you may hear is bigots' worlds falling apart ...

A few...VERY few...in fact a far far smaller minority than the supposed "Minority" that that wish us harm....I suppose ANY number no matter how small of "good guys" is better than none at all....but wait till the REAL pressure comes on...then we may see.

I await the outcome with an unconvinced but hopeful mind.....

Ben_Reilly wrote:Wow, we keep seeing these stories which clearly demonstrate that Muslims are not all of one mind on different issues. That faint, pathetic crumbling sound you may hear is bigots' worlds falling apart ...

Nems wrote:Wise words from Mr Mughal, if you are going to be anti discrimination then you have to be anti all discrimination, you cant pick the bits that suit.
Not good he is facing a backlash, that backlash being the more representative view I think

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:Wise words from Mr Mughal, if you are going to be anti discrimination then you have to be anti all discrimination, you cant pick the bits that suit.
Not good he is facing a backlash, that backlash being the more representative view I think

No not good at all, but not unpredictable either. The point is there is a diversity of opinions among Muslims, which there certainly wouldn't have been at one time- it is a very positive sign of improving times   

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:Wise words from Mr Mughal, if you are going to be anti discrimination then you have to be anti all discrimination, you cant pick the bits that suit.
Not good he is facing a backlash, that backlash being the more representative view I think

No not good at all, but not unpredictable either. The point is there is a diversity of opinions among Muslims, which there certainly wouldn't have been at one time- it is a very positive sign of improving times   

victorisnotamused wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

No not good at all, but not unpredictable either. The point is there is a diversity of opinions among Muslims, which there certainly wouldn't have been at one time- it is a very positive sign of improving times   

Which experience teaches us, generally results in things that go.....BANG :asplodeas: 

victorisnotamused wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

No not good at all, but not unpredictable either. The point is there is a diversity of opinions among Muslims, which there certainly wouldn't have been at one time- it is a very positive sign of improving times   

Which experience teaches us, generally results in things that go.....BANG :asplodeas: 

victorisnotamused wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

No not good at all, but not unpredictable either. The point is there is a diversity of opinions among Muslims, which there certainly wouldn't have been at one time- it is a very positive sign of improving times   

Which experience teaches us, generally results in things that go.....BANG :asplodeas: 

Eilzel wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

Which experience teaches us, generally results in things that go.....BANG :asplodeas: 

Does it indeed, stereotyping much?- cause there have been like SO many such attacks here and in the USA, I mean, just 9 years ago here, practically yesterday   

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

No not good at all, but not unpredictable either. The point is there is a diversity of opinions among Muslims, which there certainly wouldn't have been at one time- it is a very positive sign of improving times   

Thats one way of looking at it

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:
Thats one way of looking at it

It's the reality of the fact, unless you want to just write off all Muslim society as unworkable and unable to progress.

Sassy wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

Which experience teaches us, generally results in things that go.....BANG :asplodeas: 

Bit like the diversity amongst the Irish, that results in bangs as well. And they are still 'banging' away.

Sassy wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

It's the reality of the fact, unless you want to just write off all Muslim society as unworkable and unable to progress.

I think that might be Spot On too.

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:
Thats one way of looking at it

It's the reality of the fact, unless you want to just write off all Muslim society as unworkable and unable to progress.

Eilzel wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

Which experience teaches us, generally results in things that go.....BANG :asplodeas: 

Does it indeed, stereotyping much?- cause there have been like SO many such attacks here and in the USA, I mean, just 9 years ago here, practically yesterday   

Eilzel wrote:

Sassy wrote:

I think that might be Spot On too.

Haha, thanks Sass. I just think people are sometimes to quick to frown upon people of a certain 'label'. Many Muslims, increasingly more in fact, are speaking out against terrorism, fundamentalism, homophobia and other things than did even just a few years ago- if it isn't a clear sign of progression then wtf do people actually want? It might be easy to write them all off and assume all have a particular view but it wouldn't be fair in any way.

Of course we shouldn't ignore the obvious problems but to just ignore a positive development like this begs the question- what do they want???

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

It's the reality of the fact, unless you want to just write off all Muslim society as unworkable and unable to progress.

Mmmm Are they unworkable and unable to progress? Possibly. I dont think we should write them off, but I do think we should stop being scared of offending them and I think we should do what ever we can to break the stranglehold of religion on them. Then maybe things could progress, with an even playing field.

victorisnotamused wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Does it indeed, stereotyping much?- cause there have been like SO many such attacks here and in the USA, I mean, just 9 years ago here, practically yesterday   

methinks you speak fror little knowlege....there have been no SUCCESSFUL attacks....but there have been a considerable number of foiled attacks...of which we generally hear about only a few percent. This fortunate state of affairs is due to two things....good intelligence services/policing and the utter ineptitude of the average terrorist....heaven help us if ever they recruited someone with brains....

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

Mmmm Are they unworkable and unable to progress? Possibly. I dont think we should write them off, but I do think we should stop being scared of offending them and I think we should do what ever we can to break the stranglehold of religion on them. Then maybe things could progress, with an even playing field.

Then what do you call the OP? And other groups (such as Quilliam) which are making clear statements, as Muslim, which demonstrate liberalization and secularization while remaining (in their view) true to their faith?

Being scared of fundamentalists has nothing to do with this. I agree we should mock and question all religion including Islam (though in the arrogant atheism thread you were critical of this???); but to do 'whatever we can' sounds far more abrupt, and if anything as we have seen with many religions to be too forceful only pushes people of faith further toward fundamentalism.

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Then what do you call the OP? And other groups (such as Quilliam) which are making clear statements, as Muslim, which demonstrate liberalization and secularization while remaining (in their view) true to their faith?

Being scared of fundamentalists has nothing to do with this. I agree we should mock and question all religion including Islam (though in the arrogant atheism thread you were critical of this???); but to do 'whatever we can' sounds far more abrupt, and if anything as we have seen with many religions to be too forceful only pushes people of faith further toward fundamentalism.

The OP concerns one man who has faced a backlash. If the majority of Muslims felt that way there wouldnt be half the problems there are.

Its all very good signs of just perhaps some of them want to have a go at integrating but until its the majority view...

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

The OP concerns one man who has faced a backlash. If the majority of Muslims felt that way there wouldnt be half the problems there are.

Its all very good signs of just perhaps some of them want to have a go at integrating but until its the majority view...

The group employed Tatchell; so it isn't just one man. I also referenced Quilliam which is in an incredibly modern Muslim organization. Of course the majority may not agree, though to what extent their views on gay people are extreme or tolerant or accepting we cannot really know- but the more do say and do positive things the better right?

I'm not saying the situation now is perfect; it is far from it. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I might wake up tomorrow in a country where all Muslims love gay people- so when good developments do become apparent then I will acknowledge that.

I mean fgs every crime committed by Muslims has the Right screaming from the rooftops how demonic Muslims are- yet something good happens and people just moan?

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

The OP concerns one man who has faced a backlash. If the majority of Muslims felt that way there wouldnt be half the problems there are.

Its all very good signs of just perhaps some of them want to have a go at integrating but until its the majority view...

The group employed Tatchell; so it isn't just one man. I also referenced Quilliam which is in an incredibly modern Muslim organization. Of course the majority may not agree, though to what extent their views on gay people are extreme or tolerant or accepting we cannot really know- but the more do say and do positive things the better right?

I'm not saying the situation now is perfect; it is far from it. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I might wake up tomorrow in a country where all Muslims love gay people- so when good developments do become apparent then I will acknowledge that.

I mean fgs every crime committed by Muslims has the Right screaming from the rooftops how demonic Muslims are- yet something good happens and people just moan?

Eilzel wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Wow, we keep seeing these stories which clearly demonstrate that Muslims are not all of one mind on different issues. That faint, pathetic crumbling sound you may hear is bigots' worlds falling apart ...

Exactly Ben. Only decades ago it would have been unthinkable for Christians to accept gay people or the help of gay people in campaigns of any kind yet now it is not so abnormal for just that to be the case. Times change, and so do attitudes, even those burdened by decrepit religious dogma   

Sassy wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

The group employed Tatchell; so it isn't just one man. I also referenced Quilliam which is in an incredibly modern Muslim organization. Of course the majority may not agree, though to what extent their views on gay people are extreme or tolerant or accepting we cannot really know- but the more do say and do positive things the better right?

I'm not saying the situation now is perfect; it is far from it. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I might wake up tomorrow in a country where all Muslims love gay people- so when good developments do become apparent then I will acknowledge that.

I mean fgs every crime committed by Muslims has the Right screaming from the rooftops how demonic Muslims are- yet something good happens and people just moan?

I think Les, that there are so many people who are racist but won't acknowledge it, that you are going to get that reaction, no matter how many good things you post.   They moan about Muslims not standing up for things, but when they do they want to deride it as fast as they possibly can.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Exactly Ben. Only decades ago it would have been unthinkable for Christians to accept gay people or the help of gay people in campaigns of any kind yet now it is not so abnormal for just that to be the case. Times change, and so do attitudes, even those burdened by decrepit religious dogma   

I think you mean some Christians. You wouldn't want to stereotype anyone, would you?

Eilzel wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think you mean some Christians. You wouldn't want to stereotype anyone, would you?

I was talking about the past; like the 50s or 60s. When being gay was illegal.

Eilzel wrote:

Sassy wrote:

I think Les, that there are so many people who are racist but won't acknowledge it, that you are going to get that reaction, no matter how many good things you post.   They moan about Muslims not standing up for things, but when they do they want to deride it as fast as they possibly can.

Sadly I worry you may be right- people shouldn't be so quick to write off positive developments though, or they risk simply alienating more and making others who might speak out decide it might not even be worth it   

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

I was talking about the past; like the 50s or 60s. When being gay was illegal.

Well then I think you mean the lawmakers, not Christians.

Eilzel wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

Which experience teaches us, generally results in things that go.....BANG :asplodeas: 

Does it indeed, stereotyping much?- cause there have been like SO many such attacks here and in the USA, I mean, just 9 years ago here, practically yesterday   

victorisnotamused wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Does it indeed, stereotyping much?- cause there have been like SO many such attacks here and in the USA, I mean, just 9 years ago here, practically yesterday   

BUt, and here's the but.....what is happening HERE is only a tiny part of the whole...dont forget we "allow in" 1000's from other "less enlightened" places....places usually around the origins of things Islamic. And we dont know how many of them are inclined towards "change"   do we...
lets look
sunni v's shia
wahabi v's everyone else
Islam v's anything else
and so on...
even withing sub groups like sunni and shia there are splits and divisions that need no excuse to "remove" their opponents, generally messily, noisily and on a grand scale...

what that says I am not sure...but its a BUT....

are we REALLY going to be stuck with a society where "the majority" are considered "safe" while at the same time remaining at risk from the nutters that wend their ecstatic way here?
(which will eventually prove to be VERY expensive.......)and YES i know we have our own nutters...why add to the problem?

Eilzel wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well then I think you mean the lawmakers, not Christians.

For goodness sake ragga I was simply using the reference as a sign of how the general population (which are mostly Christian and more so in the 50s) improved in its attitude to gay rights over the last 60 years- you are being ridiculously pedantic here   

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

For goodness sake ragga I was simply using the reference as a sign of how the general population (which are mostly Christian and more so in the 50s) improved in its attitude to gay rights over the last 60 years- you are being ridiculously pedantic here   

For a good reason. I'm a bit tired of this forum becoming "Gays" versus "Christians". Blame the lawmakers, not people of faith.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

For goodness sake ragga I was simply using the reference as a sign of how the general population (which are mostly Christian and more so in the 50s) improved in its attitude to gay rights over the last 60 years- you are being ridiculously pedantic here   

For a good reason. I'm a bit tired of this forum becoming "Gays" versus "Christians". Blame the lawmakers, not people of faith.

Eilzel wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

For a good reason. I'm a bit tired of this forum becoming "Gays" versus "Christians". Blame the lawmakers, not people of faith.

It isn't good reason. I was actually being positive about Christians and Christianity. You are reading something into this that wasn't there, and frankly, sidetracking the thread.

Eilzel wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

For a good reason. I'm a bit tired of this forum becoming "Gays" versus "Christians". Blame the lawmakers, not people of faith.

It isn't good reason. I was actually being positive about Christians and Christianity. You are reading something into this that wasn't there, and frankly, sidetracking the thread.

Sassy wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

It isn't good reason. I was actually being positive about Christians and Christianity. You are reading something into this that wasn't there, and frankly, sidetracking the thread.

Indeed, I'm getting a bit pissed off with Christians dragging their faith into everything when the thread hasn't got anything to do with it.    

Sassy wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

It isn't good reason. I was actually being positive about Christians and Christianity. You are reading something into this that wasn't there, and frankly, sidetracking the thread.

Indeed, I'm getting a bit pissed off with Christians dragging their faith into everything when the thread hasn't got anything to do with it.    

Sassy wrote:Oh here we go, off track the thread.   Sad.   We are not allowed to talk about anything but bloody Christians.