Let's Talk About America

by Guest Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

20th March 2014

Interesting facts - please discuss.

Let's Talk About America - Page 2 Untitl10

Let's Talk About America - Page 2 Untitl12

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:31 pm

Judges and magistrates are institutionally racist, consistently handing down more lenient sentences to white criminals, an official Government study has revealed.

The disturbing report, produced by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ), shows that black and Asian defendants are almost 20 per cent more likely to be sent to jail than those who are white. At the same time, the average prison sentence given to Caucasian criminals by courts in England and Wales is seven months shorter than those given to Afro-Caribbean offenders.
The report separates conviction and sentencing rates by comparable offences and pleas, excluding the possibility of the data being inaccurately skewed. The Ministry of Justice said yesterday that ministers were aware “without a shadow of a doubt” that there were problems with the system, and said work had begun to address it as an area of “increasing concern”.
“The Criminal Justice System should work to promote equality, and should not discriminate against anyone because of their race,” the Criminal Justice Minister Damian Green said. “Targeting a person or a group based on their race or religion is unacceptable, it is divisive and harmful to individuals and has no place in a civilised society.”
However, Labour suggested the Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) should carry out its own investigation into racial bias in the judiciary, claiming work done under the last Government had “ground to a halt”. One leading black barrister said the figures showed that the courts, like the police, were “institutionally racist”.
A spokesman for the EHRC said it was “aware of the issues behind the report” and would “examine the concerns raised”.
The MoJ document, Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2012, was published without fanfare on the department’s website. It shows that over the past four years black criminals have been less likely to receive police cautions and more likely to have been proceeded against in court, than any other ethnic groups.
The most common outcome for a white criminal was a community sentence; for Black, Asian and Chinese offenders it was custody. The statistics are broken down by types of crime, ruling out the possibility that black defendants might be being proportionally found guilty of more serious offences.
Disturbingly, in every year studied, a higher proportion of white defendants had previous convictions – which would normally result in a greater number of prosecutions and harsher sentences. But this does not appear to be the case.
The proportion of white criminals sentenced to immediate custody by the courts was 26 per cent while the proportion of black criminals sent to prison was 31 per cent and Asians 32 per cent. The average custodial sentence for white offenders was 15.9 months; for black prisoners it was 23.4 months.
Different types of crime also show sentencing differences. A white person pleading guilty to burglary was sentenced to, on average, 25 months in prison compared with a black person who typically received a 28-month sentence. Of those pleading not guilty but convicted by the courts, the sentences were 40 months and 47 months respectively.
Similarly, 76 per cent of white people convicted of production or supply of a class A drug were sentenced to immediate custody compared with 84.8 per cent of black people.
One former prison governor said that he believed there was a degree of “establishment denial” about the problem. “When I worked in Brixton prison, of the 900 prisoners we had, between 60 and 65 per cent were non-white, which was completely disproportionate to the make-up of the community,” said Paul McDowell, now chief executive of the crime reduction charity Nacro.
“This was a direct consequence of what was happening in the courts. But there is a degree of establishment denial. There seems to be a view that the judiciary are independent and cannot be interfered with. But that lack of challenge is at the root of the problem.”
Peter Herbert, chairman of the Society of Black Lawyers and a crown court judge, said the figures represented “institutional racism”. “I’m not sure what else you can call it,” he said. “The effect is right across the criminal justice system. From stop and search, to arrest, to charge and to sentencing – every aspect of the process is stacked against defendants from ethnic minority backgrounds. It is not a pretty picture.”
Mr Herbert said the figures needed to be broken down to individual court level, and judges confronted with their sentencing decisions. “It needs urgent attention,” he said. “I don’t believe that judges are sitting there consciously discriminating against black defendants, but if you look at the cumulative effect of sentencing decisions there is no rational explanation for the discrepancies.
“We need to drill down into the figures and ensure that they are examined on a court-by-court basis. Judges then need to ask themselves hard questions.”
Richard Monkhouse, chairman of the Magistrates’ Association, said a unit in the MoJ that had examined the issue under the Labour government had been disbanded. “I think that’s a real pity because only by understanding what is going on can we begin to address the problem. Judges have to operate within tight sentencing guidelines. So, why is there still disproportionality?
“It’s crucial that people know our system of open and transparent justice will deal with them fairly and equally, regardless of gender, class, age, race or religion.”
Shadow Justice Secretary Sadiq Khan said: “If the colour of your skin means you are treated unfairly by our justice system then urgent action is required to address that.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/courts-are-biased-against-blacks-with-white-offenders-less-likely-to-be-jailed-for-similar-crimes-says-official-report-8959804.html

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:38 pm

Interesting BA.
"In 2012 US Census Bureau estimated 44,456,009 African Americans in the United States meaning that 14.1% of the total American population of 313.9 Million is Black"
And about 1million of the 2.4million prison population are black.
Startling figures really.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:38 pm

African Americans make up 13% of the general
US population, yet they constitute 28% of all
arrests, 40% of all inmates held in prisons
and jails, and 42% of the population on death row.
In contrast, Whites make up 67% of the total US
population and 70% of all arrests, yet only 40% of
all inmates held in state prisons or local jails and 56%
of the population on death row. Hispanics and Native
Americans are also alarmingly overrepresented in the
criminal justice system.

This overrepresentation of people of color in the nation’s criminal justice system, also referred to as disproportionate minority contact
(DMC), is a serious issue in our society.

http://www.nccdglobal.org/sites/default/files/publication_pdf/created-equal.pdf

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:44 pm

Didge wrote:African Americans make up 13% of the general
US population, yet they constitute 28% of all
arrests, 40% of all inmates held in prisons
and jails, and 42% of the population on death row.
In contrast, Whites make up 67% of the total US
population and 70% of all arrests, yet only 40% of
all inmates held in state prisons or local jails and 56%
of the population on death row. Hispanics and Native
Americans are also alarmingly overrepresented in the
criminal justice system.

This overrepresentation of people of color in the nation’s criminal justice system, also referred to as disproportionate minority contact
(DMC), is a serious issue in our society.

http://www.nccdglobal.org/sites/default/files/publication_pdf/created-equal.pdf

We would need to know more didge - do blacks commit more second and third crimes?

Like the UK - repeat offenders would be more likely to be imprisoned.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:48 pm

Dear me, that shows you do not read the studies again and again you only see things in black and white, again skin colour does not play a factor in why a crime is committed , social factors do.

DOH

So stop being a dummy

Laters

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:49 pm

Didge wrote:Dear me, that shows you do not read the studies again and again you only see things in black and white, again skin colour does not play a factor in why a crime is committed , social factors do.

DOH

So stop being a dummy

Laters

I read your post and replied to it.

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:55 pm

Didge is in full bullshit node it seems, and has now beat a hasty retreat!

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:19 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Didge is in full bullshit node it seems, and has now beat a hasty retreat!

No, just some of us have a job unlike yourself and again Matti you offer nothing but gobbldygook, nothing scientific, if you think skin colour is a factor why people commit crime, when biologically humans are the same race, then you are more of a dummy than I thought you were

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:20 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:Dear me, that shows you do not read the studies again and again you only see things in black and white, again skin colour does not play a factor in why a crime is committed , social factors do.

DOH

So stop being a dummy

Laters

I read your post and replied to it.

I replied to you, do you think skin colour is a factor why people commit crime?

Cannot wait to hear your science behind that soldier boy

::D::

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:34 pm

Obviously people are more different than just skin colour.....!

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:37 pm

Didge wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

I read your post and replied to it.

I replied to you, do you think skin colour is a factor why people commit crime?

Cannot wait to hear your science behind that soldier boy

::D::

Errrrm... they don't do it because they are black, of course not. That's not what we're discussing (well, I'm not).

What I'm trying to discuss is why are blacks more likely to commit crime, why are they more likely to kill and why are they more likely to kill a person of another race.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:39 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

I replied to you, do you think skin colour is a factor why people commit crime?

Cannot wait to hear your science behind that soldier boy

::D::

Errrrm... they don't do it because they are black, of course not. That's not what we're discussing (well, I'm not).

What I'm trying to discuss is why are blacks more likely to commit crime, why are they more likely to kill and why are they more likely to kill a person of another race.

So why would you think blacks are more likely to commit crimes if social factors play a part?

It is not that difficult to work out you have enough links on here to give you all the answers you need, but still you are bumping into a brick wall blind to how simple it is!

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:43 pm

Didge wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Errrrm... they don't do it because they are black, of course not. That's not what we're discussing (well, I'm not).

What I'm trying to discuss is why are blacks more likely to commit crime, why are they more likely to kill and why are they more likely to kill a person of another race.

So why would you think blacks are more likely to commit crimes if social factors play a part?

It is not that difficult to work out you have enough links on here to give you all the answers you need, but still you are bumping into a brick wall blind to how simple it is!

Because the figures show that.

I didn't just pluck the idea out of thin air - I say it because the figures show it didge.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:45 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

So why would you think blacks are more likely to commit crimes if social factors play a part?

It is not that difficult to work out you have enough links on here to give you all the answers you need, but still you are bumping into a brick wall blind to how simple it is!

Because the figures show that.

I didn't just pluck the idea out of thin air - I say it because the figures show it didge.

I guess you are not that bright after all then, again I have given you a few links, have you read any of them?

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:46 pm

Didge wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Because the figures show that.

I didn't just pluck the idea out of thin air - I say it because the figures show it didge.

I guess you are not that bright after all then, again I have given you a few links, have you read any of them?

didge - is it shown that blacks are more likely to commit crime in the USA?

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:47 pm

Some more for Andy to read:

The black people commit more crime canard is a fallacy of both process and outcomes. African Americans are subject to discrimination in the legal system at every level. As documented by The Sentencing Project, and detailed in such works as Race, Crime and the Law, and The New Jim Crow, African Americans are more likely to be stopped by police without cause, to be more aggressively questioned, receive longer and more severe charges for the same crimes as white defendants, and to have fewer resources to defend themselves in court.

As compared to white neighborhoods, black and brown communities are also subject to more severe surveillance and aggressive police tactics. Moreover, the disproportionate number of minorities in the criminal justice system can be largely explained by the War on Drugs. In total, if white communities were subject to the same type of aggressive police tactics as black and brown communities, the number of white people in prison would skyrocket.

The data is very telling here. While people of color are the prime targets of such policies as “stop and frisk” and racial profiling, it is in fact white people who are far more likely to be both drug users and to be in possession of narcotics at a given moment. This reality signals to a larger social phenomenon: black individuals who commit crimes are representative of their whole communities, crime is racialized, and there is no qualifier of individual intent. All black people are deemed suspicious and guilty because of the deeds of the very few.

In contrast, white people who commit crimes are unique individuals: the criminals who destroyed the global economy, a group of white men, were not taken as representative of the entire white community. There is a long list of crimes such as domestic terrorism, serial murder, child rape, sedition, treason, and financial fraud that are almost exclusively the province of white people. But again, whites as a group are excluded from suspicion or indictment as a “criminal class.”

The supposition that black men (and black folks more generally) are by definition “suspicious” is a channeling of the once in vogue concept known as “rational” or “reasonable” racism. Applying this logic, George Zimmerman is justified in shooting first, profiling, or harassing black people because “statistically” the latter are more likely to commit crime. Again, this is a chain of reasoning that is rife with problems.

Generalized statistics about crime tell you very little about a given person’s likelihood of committing a criminal act. This is especially true in a society where race and class are variables which over-determine how the courts treat suspects and who the police choose to single out for surveillance, harassment, and arrest.

Broad statistics also tell us little about a given population’s capacity or propensity to commit crime. For example, while black men are disproportionately incarcerated, the majority are in jail for drug offenses. African Americans are also more likely to be poor than whites. When a researcher accounts for these variables, the story becomes one of class and not race. Further problematizing the true lie that “black equals criminal,” is that disparities in crime largely disappear when you consider the black middle and upper classes in comparison to their white peers.

As demonstrated by Jody Armour in her book Negrophobia, less than 2 percent of black men are incarcerated for violent crimes. By implication, to generalize from the demographics of a given prison population to a specific person’s likelihood of committing a violent crime is a fool’s errand of the first order.

This is a counter-intuitive dynamic: just because a given group may constitute a higher percentage of those in jail, it does not in fact mean that a given individual is more likely to commit said type of crime.

A person is more likely to suffer a violent crime at the hands of a family member, friend, or acquaintance than a stranger; and most crime is intraracial.

Ultimately, incarceration is a function of many structural factors in relation to the criminal justice system.

Anecdotes matter. Police often give a pass to those who they know or trust. The white kid with weed just made a mistake; the black or Latino is a hardcore thug to be jailed. The judge may give parole or a lenient sentence to a white defendant in order to “teach them a lesson” about bad behavior. By comparison, a person of color before the same judge is already a “lost cause,” someone to have the book thrown at.

We see this same dynamic even in schools: researchers have determined that white and black youth who are accused of the same offenses see wildly different outcomes in terms of punishment. The latter are suspended or expelled, while the former are given warnings or other remediation.

Two points are readily apparent.

The demographics of those in jails, prisons, and hospitals are a means of judging a society, as well as determining which groups of people are valued (and those who are not). By that calculus, the poor, working classes, and people of color are second class citizens in the United States.

If American history's circumstances were reversed along the axis of the color line, then our country's jails and prisons would be filled with millions of white people. In the sum total of this alternate America's history there would likely have been many thousands of white people killed at the hands of black mobs and blood thirsty vigilantes obsessed with maintaining the racial order, and protecting themselves from white “criminals” and “thugs.” In this world, there would likely have been many "Black" George Zimmermans and "white" Trayvon Martins.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:48 pm

Are you trying to tell me it's because they come from bad neighbourhoods?

Bad families?

They had nothing to do while growing up?

BigAndy9 says "no excuses", just like Bracca Barmy.

by Original Quill Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:50 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:African Americans make up 13% of the general
US population, yet they constitute 28% of all
arrests, 40% of all inmates held in prisons
and jails, and 42% of the population on death row.
In contrast, Whites make up 67% of the total US
population and 70% of all arrests, yet only 40% of
all inmates held in state prisons or local jails and 56%
of the population on death row. Hispanics and Native
Americans are also alarmingly overrepresented in the
criminal justice system.

This overrepresentation of people of color in the nation’s criminal justice system, also referred to as disproportionate minority contact
(DMC), is a serious issue in our society.

http://www.nccdglobal.org/sites/default/files/publication_pdf/created-equal.pdf

We would need to know more didge - do blacks commit more second and third crimes?

Like the UK - repeat offenders would be more likely to be imprisoned.

That's a rather silly suggestion, andy. If we are in questioning mode, why go to your litany of answers? Isn't that what Joe McCarthy used to do: Suggest an answer, but profess that you are still only asking questions? http://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-figures/mccarthyism.htm

Here's the proper scientific method to answer questions: raise or recognize a problem >> look at the evidence >> draw your conclusions based upon evidence. Here's your perversion of it: same problem >> suggest your answer without any reference to the evidence. Adolph Hitler, in his book Mein Kampf, jokingly called it the Big Lie.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:51 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:Are you trying to tell me it's because they come from bad neighbourhoods?

Bad families?

They had nothing to do while growing up?

BigAndy9 says "no excuses", just like Bracca Barmy.

Dear me, I guess you are not able to be objectionable and understand anything, again you have been given plenty of answers, you refuse to except them because you clearly see a biological difference between humans.

So again what did you fail to understand sweet Andy?

You read nothing, I just posted that link and you skipped through it showing how short sighted you are, not only here but in America there is a bias by the Police and in the courts against blacks, do you accept that?

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:54 pm

Didge wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:Are you trying to tell me it's because they come from bad neighbourhoods?

Bad families?

They had nothing to do while growing up?

BigAndy9 says "no excuses", just like Bracca Barmy.

Dear me, I guess you are not able to be objectionable and understand anything, again you have been given plenty of answers, you refuse to except them because you clearly see a biological difference between humans.

So again what did you fail to understand sweet Andy?

You read nothing, I just posted that link and you skipped through it showing how short sighted you are, not only here but in America there is a bias by the Police and in the courts against blacks, do you accept that?

You now believe that the figures should be turned around?

Are you pulling the race card didge?

This is an amazing turn of events.

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:55 pm

Blacks make up only 14% of USA population but nearly half of prison population!
In UK blacks are over represented in prison by a factor of 7 compared to national population!
The figures are there for all to see and all Didge can say is that it is everyone elses fault but the blacks themselves.
What a twat!

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Blacks make up only 14% of USA population but nearly half of prison population!
In UK blacks are over represented in prison by a factor of 7 compared to national population!
The figures are there for all to see and all Didge can say is that it is everyone elses fault but the blacks themselves.
What a twat!

That is not scientific, all you are doing is stating stats, not reasons behind crime

That shows you are dim

Try again

Whites also commit the most crimes in America

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Blacks make up only 14% of USA population but nearly half of prison population!
In UK blacks are over represented in prison by a factor of 7 compared to national population!
The figures are there for all to see and all Didge can say is that it is everyone elses fault but the blacks themselves.
What a twat!

But all the blacks are innocent, as proven by didge.

The Judges, the police and the dastardly jurors are all RACIST!

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:59 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

Dear me, I guess you are not able to be objectionable and understand anything, again you have been given plenty of answers, you refuse to except them because you clearly see a biological difference between humans.

So again what did you fail to understand sweet Andy?

You read nothing, I just posted that link and you skipped through it showing how short sighted you are, not only here but in America there is a bias by the Police and in the courts against blacks, do you accept that?

You now believe that the figures should be turned around?

Are you pulling the race card didge?

This is an amazing turn of events.

All you have offered Andy dear sweet Andy is stats, not reasons behind crimes, social factors or that the system is biased against ethnic groups, you though it seems want to paint an unscientific view of black people without any research into the matter, you just take stats and that is all you see

That makes you very stupid, so by your logic where the vast majority of serial killers are white, using your daft logic do we presume whites are serial killers?

I would not make such a daft assumption, would you?

If whites in this country using again your daft logic are over represented in child sex abuse, does that makes all white men paedo's?

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:01 pm

Didge wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

You now believe that the figures should be turned around?

Are you pulling the race card didge?

This is an amazing turn of events.

All you have offered Andy dear sweet Andy is stats, not reasons behind crimes, social factors or that the system is biased against ethnic groups, you though it seems want to paint an unscientific view of black people without any research into the matter, you just take stats and that is all you see

That makes you very stupid, so by your logic where the vast majority of serial killers are white, using your daft logic do we presume whites are serial killers?

I would not make such a daft assumption, would you?

If whites in this country using again your daft logic are over represented in child sex abuse, does that makes all white men paedo's?

No didge - what was the thread about? The reasons for crime or who commits crime?

My thread.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:02 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Blacks make up only 14% of USA population but nearly half of prison population!
In UK blacks are over represented in prison by a factor of 7 compared to national population!
The figures are there for all to see and all Didge can say is that it is everyone elses fault but the blacks themselves.
What a twat!

But all the blacks are innocent, as proven by didge.

The Judges, the police and the dastardly jurors are all RACIST!

Now resorting to lying Andy, never claimed all blacks people are innocent either.

You have been presented with plenty of evidence though to show poor bias not only in America but in this country provided by the Ministry of Justice, so again all you can do now is resort to making up lies and using stats which you have no ability to understand those figures

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:04 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

All you have offered Andy dear sweet Andy is stats, not reasons behind crimes, social factors or that the system is biased against ethnic groups, you though it seems want to paint an unscientific view of black people without any research into the matter, you just take stats and that is all you see

That makes you very stupid, so by your logic where the vast majority of serial killers are white, using your daft logic do we presume whites are serial killers?

I would not make such a daft assumption, would you?

If whites in this country using again your daft logic are over represented in child sex abuse, does that makes all white men paedo's?

No didge - what was the thread about? The reasons for crime or who commits crime?

My thread.

Yes your thread of which you have provided no reasons, others have and you act like a child over them.

So go back and read the links, then present your own case, not just some stats, presenting stats without anything to explain them is utterly pointless

Just as I proved in my last post

by Original Quill Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:04 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

I guess you are not that bright after all then, again I have given you a few links, have you read any of them?

didge - is it shown that blacks are more likely to commit crime in the USA?

What the evidence shows is that people who are in lower socioeconomic categories--particularly, those who are forced to live in such circumstances by discrimination or other kinds of forced disadvantages--have fewer alternatives. Being deprived is defined as: "suffering a severe and damaging lack of basic material and cultural benefits." https://www.google.com/#q=deprived

Blacks have suffered centuries of deprivation, from the original slavery, in which they were intentionally kept from learning to read or understand higher cultural pursuits, through segregation and apartheid, and plain old discrimination in the present day.

People with enlightened minds are trying to improve disadvantaged people by special programs, in the educational, nutritional and ultimately, the employment fields. The white naysayers are the one's who have given up; they have probably given up in other walks of life, as well...indeed, they are probably known modernly as failures.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

didge - is it shown that blacks are more likely to commit crime in the USA?

What the evidence shows is that people who are in lower socioeconomic categories--particularly, those who are forced to live in such circumstances by discrimination or other kinds of forced disadvantages--have fewer alternatives. Being deprived is defined as: "suffering a severe and damaging lack of basic material and cultural benefits." https://www.google.com/#q=deprived

Blacks have suffered centuries of deprivation, from the original slavery, in which they were intentionally kept from learning to read or understand higher cultural pursuits, through segregation and apartheid, and plain old discrimination in the present day.

People with enlightened minds are trying to improve disadvantaged people by special programs, in the educational, nutritional and ultimately, the employment fields. The white naysayers are the one's who have given up; they have probably given up in other walks of life, as well...indeed, they are probably known modernly as failures.

Hi Quill

Well he certainly ignores many and has not presented any reasons himself, so what is his reason really behind this thread is what you have to ask if most people with common sense can understand the causes behind crime?
Is he trying to present a case that blacks are more violent and more criminal, with no scientific methodology behind such a claim, except only using stats, and only from a set time period in history?

Flawed on every level

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:13 pm

The facts speak for themselves.
Boot here in UK and in America, blacks are vastly over represented in prisons, compared to relatively low national population, suggesting that they are responsible for more crime or more serious crime.
Whites again are underrepresented in prisons compared to much higher national percentage.
In America making up about 42% of prison (58% being black and Hispanic), while making up about 70% of national population.
And in UK white British are overwhelming majority of national population (approx 90%) but only about 60% prison.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The facts speak for themselves.
Boot here in UK and in America, blacks are vastly over represented in prisons, compared to relatively low national population, suggesting that they are responsible for more crime or more serious crime.
Whites again are underrepresented in prisons compared to much higher national percentage.
In America making up about 42% of prison (58% being black and Hispanic), while making up about 70% of national population.
And in UK white British are overwhelming majority of national population (approx 90%) but only about 60% prison.

No they do not speak for themselves, you have to provide reasons behind them, so again your methodology is flawed.
Do you work in any business?
Do you think they present stats and go well "there you go we are doing well, we have no idea why we are doing well, but we are doing well"?

DOH

So by your daft logic white people are more likely to paedo's then?

Actually the white population is 87% and 95% of the 30,000 convicted paedo's are white, so by your daft illogical views no child should go near white men

by Original Quill Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:17 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Blacks make up only 14% of USA population but nearly half of prison population!
In UK blacks are over represented in prison by a factor of 7 compared to national population!
The figures are there for all to see and all Didge can say is that it is everyone elses fault but the blacks themselves.
What a twat!

That is not scientific, all you are doing is stating stats, not reasons behind crime

That shows you are dim

Try again

Whites also commit the most crimes in America

The reason behind all of it is discrimination. History shows it. It began with a primitive form of coercion, slavery. Then it moved to intermediate forms, known as segregation and apartheid, to its modern form, discrimination.

There's a well-known hierarchy in jury favorites within white-dominated nations. Listed from most-favoured to least, it is: Caucasian females, Caucasian males, females of colour and males of colour. One very obvious example is a comparison of the cases of George Zimmerman and Marissa Alexander of Jacksonville, Fla. White Zimmerman murders a Black teenager in cold blood, and is let completely off by a southern jury. Marissa Alexender, a Black woman, merely fires two shots into the air to warn off her abusive spouse, and receives a 20-year sentence by a southern jury. Classic, classic racism in the criminal justice system.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:20 pm

Didge wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

No didge - what was the thread about? The reasons for crime or who commits crime?

My thread.

Yes your thread of which you have provided no reasons, others have and you act like a child over them.

So go back and read the links, then present your own case, not just some stats, presenting stats without anything to explain them is utterly pointless

Just as I proved in my last post

Well no, I have seen the reasons.

Why don't you start a thread about it?

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

That is not scientific, all you are doing is stating stats, not reasons behind crime

That shows you are dim

Try again

Whites also commit the most crimes in America

The reason behind all of it is discrimination. History shows it. It began with a primitive form of coercion, slavery. Then it moved to intermediate forms, known as segregation and apartheid, to its modern form, discrimination.

There's a well-known hierarchy in jury favorites within white-dominated nations. Listed from most-favoured to least, it is: Caucasian females, Caucasian males, females of colour and males of colour. One very obvious example is a comparison of the cases of George Zimmerman and Marissa Alexander of Jacksonville, Fla. White Zimmerman murders a Black teenager in cold blood, and is let completely off by a southern jury. Marissa Alexender, a Black woman, merely fires two shots into the air to warn off her abusive spouse, and receives a 20-year sentence by a southern jury. Classic, classic racism in the criminal justice system.

Agree 100%, they have formed a prejudice and discriminating view there is something fundamentally wrong with different ethnic groups more so if black than any others, because they are institutionally racist. Even worse they want to prove they are right not using and methodology or science but stats, negating the fact biologically we are all one race, which sort of flaws their whole entire argument.
The system is so bad and prejudice it is beyond belief Quill.
I just cannot believe in this day and age you still have people that wish to believe an ethnic group is dangerous and criminal based upon such poor prejudice and discrimination

by Original Quill Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:23 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

What the evidence shows is that people who are in lower socioeconomic categories--particularly, those who are forced to live in such circumstances by discrimination or other kinds of forced disadvantages--have fewer alternatives. Being deprived is defined as: "suffering a severe and damaging lack of basic material and cultural benefits." https://www.google.com/#q=deprived

Blacks have suffered centuries of deprivation, from the original slavery, in which they were intentionally kept from learning to read or understand higher cultural pursuits, through segregation and apartheid, and plain old discrimination in the present day.

People with enlightened minds are trying to improve disadvantaged people by special programs, in the educational, nutritional and ultimately, the employment fields. The white naysayers are the one's who have given up; they have probably given up in other walks of life, as well...indeed, they are probably known modernly as failures.

Hi Quill

Well he certainly ignores many and has not presented any reasons himself, so what is his reason really behind this thread is what you have to ask if most people with common sense can understand the causes behind crime?
Is he trying to present a case that blacks are more violent and more criminal, with no scientific methodology behind such a claim, except only using stats, and only from a set time period in history?

Flawed on every level

G'morning Didge,

RWers are known as underachievers in intellectual pursuits. They don't understand the meaning of facts. They are ultimately very selfish thinkers: they begin with themselves, and end up siding with themselves. Very typical.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:23 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

Yes your thread of which you have provided no reasons, others have and you act like a child over them.

So go back and read the links, then present your own case, not just some stats, presenting stats without anything to explain them is utterly pointless

Just as I proved in my last post

Well no, I have seen the reasons.

Why don't you start a thread about it?

Then you clearly do not accept the reasons, proving again you fail to be objectionable, thus before you have even started your hypothesis you have ruled out many known factors, which is going to present you with difficulties promoting your own reasons behind why you think the reason is behind the stats, of which again you have presented no reason.

So you want me to leave this thread because both Quill, even more Quill than me are able to rubbish your answers, so you can carry on make daft assumptions

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Hi Quill

Well he certainly ignores many and has not presented any reasons himself, so what is his reason really behind this thread is what you have to ask if most people with common sense can understand the causes behind crime?
Is he trying to present a case that blacks are more violent and more criminal, with no scientific methodology behind such a claim, except only using stats, and only from a set time period in history?

Flawed on every level

G'morning Didge,

RWers are known as underachievers in intellectual pursuits. They don't understand the meaning of facts. They are ultimately very selfish thinkers: they begin with themselves, and end up siding with themselves. Very typical.

Not all RWers, me being one

lol!

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:28 pm

So, why do so many blacks murder so many white people in America?

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:29 pm

Quill, here in UK there was no slavery or apartheid, we have only had high immigration in recent decades (all of these immigrants, we are led to believe, are highly skilled hard working and well needed, as well as also being told that they are doing the jobs other people don't want to do!), with all of these areas that now have these high immigrant populations being the areas with highest crime and 'deprivation', unemployment etc.
These people are all treated equally and given the same opportunities as everyone else so why the common trend among them?
Your excuses might work for the USA but have no relevance in UK.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:29 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:So, why do so many blacks murder so many white people in America?

Why do white people murder black people?

Why does any human murder another human?

You are asking many questions, are given answers but offer nothing Andy, making your contribution limited and very pointless

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:33 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Quill, here in UK there was no slavery or apartheid, we have only had high immigration in recent decades (all of these immigrants, we are led to believe, are highly skilled hard working and well needed, as well as also being told that they are doing the jobs other people don't want to do!), with all of these areas that now have these high immigrant populations being the areas with highest crime and 'deprivation', unemployment etc.
These people are all treated equally and given the same opportunities as everyone else so why the common trend among them?
Your excuses might work for the USA but have no relevance in UK.

The Brits never enslaved anyone then?

Sorry, are you having a bubble bath?

Would also like to know some history of how many Blacks were treated by the British in their countries where only an elite was educated and the rest of the nation was exploited for wealth to the Empire, leaving Africa desolate after they left? How because many were not educated and taken away from there own industries to make money for the Empire?
The fact is as seen and evidence from the Ministry of justice shows they are not treated as equals in many cases, but then you think Stephen Lawrence was a wrong'un don't you matti. Also where is the evidence if a crime is committed in an area and it has high immigration it is then down to immigration?
Do all criminal live where they commit crime now?

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:33 pm

Didge wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:So, why do so many blacks murder so many white people in America?

Why do white people murder black people?

Why does any human murder another human?

You are asking many questions, are given answers but offer nothing Andy, making your contribution limited and very pointless

If we all knew the answers there would be nothing to discuss.

Am I not allowed to put questions forward, even when I "think" I know the answer, or a possible answer?

A question is a good starting point for a debate.

So, as you didn't seem to understand the question (maybe I worded it badly) - why is it that in America, the number of blacks murdering whites is so large, compared to whites murdering blacks?

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:37 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:

Why do white people murder black people?

Why does any human murder another human?

You are asking many questions, are given answers but offer nothing Andy, making your contribution limited and very pointless

If we all knew the answers there would be nothing to discuss.

Am I not allowed to put questions forward, even when I "think" I know the answer, or a possible answer?

A question is a good starting point for a debate.

So, as you didn't seem to understand the question (maybe I worded it badly) - why is it that in America, the number of blacks murdering whites is so large, compared to whites murdering blacks?

Copout again, we have given you reasons, you again are unable to be objectionable because you refuse to accept them, hence why your input is limited and pointless you offer no alternative view but keep asking the same questions that have been answered.
Do you have the reasons like I asked you before behind these murders?

If not, how can anyone judge many individual cases as a collective group?
That is abusrd, that again predisposes that again there is something wrong with blacks, not that individuals or groups of individuals commit crime.
So you cannot ask a very empty based question without any supporting evidence to any of the crimes.

by Original Quill Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:45 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Quill, here in UK there was no slavery or apartheid, we have only had high immigration in recent decades (all of these immigrants, we are led to believe, are highly skilled hard working and well needed, as well as also being told that they are doing the jobs other people don't want to do!), with all of these areas that now have these high immigrant populations being the areas with highest crime and 'deprivation', unemployment etc.
These people are all treated equally and given the same opportunities as everyone else so why the common trend among them?
Your excuses might work for the USA but have no relevance in UK.

Makes me laugh. Tom, you guys started it. The first Africans coming to America were hardly vacationing tourists.

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:47 pm

In UK we didn't have loads of blacks here before the relatively recent mass immigration policies, we didn't have a apartheid system, immigrants have been given the same legal status and opportunities afforded to everyone else.
However, areas with high immigrant/immigrant descendant populations have the highest crime, unemployment etc and are the so called 'most deprived'.
The prisons here show blacks being over represented by a factor of 7 compared to national population And muslims/asians by a factor of 3.
There is obviously a problem with many of them, their general attitude and/or behaviour but you only seem interested in looking for excuses and attributing blame elsewhere.

by Original Quill Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:48 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

G'morning Didge,

RWers are known as underachievers in intellectual pursuits. They don't understand the meaning of facts. They are ultimately very selfish thinkers: they begin with themselves, and end up siding with themselves. Very typical.

Not all RWers, me being one

Lol. Well, there's the famous old saying by John Stuart Mill: "I didn't say all Conservatives are stupid; I said all stupid people are Conservatives."

This is really that case. While there are Conservatives who are quite capable, the majority of them are to residual of the population who can't exercise their mental faculties at all.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:50 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:In UK we didn't have loads of blacks here before the relatively recent mass immigration policies, we didn't have a apartheid system, immigrants have been given the same legal status and opportunities afforded to everyone else.
However, areas with high immigrant/immigrant descendant populations have the highest crime, unemployment etc and are the so called 'most deprived'.
The prisons here show blacks being over represented by a factor of 7 compared to national population And muslims/asians by a factor of 3.
There is obviously a problem with many of them, their general attitude and/or behaviour but you only seem interested in looking for excuses and attributing blame elsewhere.

That's true Tommy.

It's all because of the slave trade, the colonies.

And when we quite often prove what a mess they bring, the left's answer then is "well you deserve it".

by Tommy Monk Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Quill, here in UK there was no slavery or apartheid, we have only had high immigration in recent decades (all of these immigrants, we are led to believe, are highly skilled hard working and well needed, as well as also being told that they are doing the jobs other people don't want to do!), with all of these areas that now have these high immigrant populations being the areas with highest crime and 'deprivation', unemployment etc.
These people are all treated equally and given the same opportunities as everyone else so why the common trend among them?
Your excuses might work for the USA but have no relevance in UK.
Makes me laugh. Tom, you guys started it. The first Africans coming to America were hardly vacationing tourists.

No us guys didn't start slavery.
And are you really suggesting that a disproportionately high immigrant prison population in UK prisons today is a direct result of American slavery 200-300 years ago?

by Original Quill Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:In UK we didn't have loads of blacks here before the relatively recent mass immigration policies, we didn't have a apartheid system, immigrants have been given the same legal status and opportunities afforded to everyone else.
However, areas with high immigrant/immigrant descendant populations have the highest crime, unemployment etc and are the so called 'most deprived'.
The prisons here show blacks being over represented by a factor of 7 compared to national population And muslims/asians by a factor of 3.
There is obviously a problem with many of them, their general attitude and/or behaviour but you only seem interested in looking for excuses and attributing blame elsewhere.

Let me ask you a few simple questions, Tom.

In the Americas, where slavery became its biggest, whose colonies were they? Was Virginia Dutch? Were the Carolinas French? No, that was England. When slavery started, those were English colonies, later becoming British.

It is totally false to try to disassociate England, or Britain, from the institution of slavery.

Yes, there is a problem with Blacks and incarceration in a white-dominated nation. The problem is called discrimination.

by Guest Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Makes me laugh. Tom, you guys started it. The first Africans coming to America were hardly vacationing tourists.

No us guys didn't start slavery.
And are you really suggesting that a disproportionately high immigrant prison population in UK prisons today is a direct result of American slavery 200-300 years ago?

Of course it is - we took all their resources - that's why they are all running around in huge gangs, stabbing each other on London's streets with machetes in front of families.

by Sponsored content