Children aged 12 to 15 will now be offered the Covid jab in the UK.

by Syl Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:32 am

First topic message reminder :

Boris Johnson, Prof Whitty and Sir Patrick Vallance, the Chief Scientific Adviser, will give a press conference on today in which the Prime Minister is expected to announce he has accepted his chief medical officers' advice and the rollout for 12- to 15-year-olds will begin as soon as next week.
One pfizer dose will be given.

Parental consent will be needed, but children can override the parents decision if they are deemed competent.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/12-year-olds-able-to-defy-parents-and-get-covid-jab-if-e2-80-98competent-e2-80-99-to-make-decision/ar-AAOq1X1?ocid=uxbndlbing

by Original Quill Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:04 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But...we are one mutation away from a change that will affect children. As long as we admit of the possibility of mutability, I would not rely on the immutability of the virus in that direction. I'm for wiping out all hosts for the virus by mass vaccination. The vaccinations that we have are our best means of doing that.

That mutation may never come, and if every adult who was eligible for the vaccine took it the chances of a deadlier strain of Covid emerging would be much lessened.

Then again, it may happen suddenly within a subpopulation of children. We are already speculating about mutations, so why not speculate that the mutation that attacks children will come. It's a matter of fact that we don't know why the virus is laying off children, so we are safest if we assume that something is blocking the virus's attacking children. Remove that block - as any mutation might - and we have problems with defenseless children.

by Original Quill Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:29 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But...we are one mutation away from a change that will affect children. As long as we admit of the possibility of mutability, I would not rely on the immutability of the virus in that direction. I'm for wiping out all hosts for the virus by mass vaccination. The vaccinations that we have are our best means of doing that.

The deadline for care workers to have their first jab has now passed. Over 2000 workers now face the sack in Greater Manchester alone because they have refused.
I honestly cant undersatns why people who work in the caring profession can be so callous.

I suspect it's politically motivated. The pandemic started on the conservative watch. Progressives moved quickly in this country, to criticize Trump and conservatives for disbanding regulatory mechanisms to prevent such pandemics. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/obama-team-left-pandemic-playbook-for-trump-administration-officials-confirm

This led to conservatives downplaying that the Covid virus is even a threat...which argument you've heard tommy voice. Further, more advanced conservatives argued that any "rushed" vaccinations or therapeutics could be dangerous. There arose the sense of danger associated with any vaccination...we don't know the long-term effects of anything developed under this rushed, incautious hysteria! This latter view is the prevailing conservative argument, voiced by conservative professionals in the medical field, even though the FDA has approved vaccines under long-term protocols.

In sum, any port in the storm to protect conservatives who are in favor of indiscriminate deregulation. Conservatives, at their core, are against any regulation, as part of their anti-government theme, which they see as socialistic.

by Syl Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:32 pm

The problem with this virus is because it's new all the experts are still learning about it.
So far the old and the ill have been affected more than any other group, but as we are now seeing, as the older and more vulnerable have been vaccinated, it's younger and fitter people who are now getting seriously ill with Covid and needing hospital treatment.
Sadly we are still getting hundreds of deaths every week.

I think if there are signs that the virus has mutated enough to start affecting younger kids, that would be the time I would seriously consider them getting vaccinated.

To be honest, I am glad I am not in the position to have to make that choice.

by Original Quill Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:50 pm

I think that time-lapse has happened. There is no known barrier to the virus moving into younger age brackets. The virus will attack any organism it can get to...but something is blocking it from getting to younger children.

Personally, I believe it's that children still have an abundance of vitamin D, as empirically, children who have a shortage of vitamin D are prone to getting the virus. https://www.insider.com/vitamin-d-deficiency-may-be-linked-more-severe-coronavirus-2020-5

by Syl Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:I think that time-lapse has happened. There is no known barrier to the virus moving into younger age brackets. The virus will attack any organism it can get to...but something is blocking it from getting to younger children.

Personally, I believe it's that children still have an abundance of vitamin D, as empirically, children who have a shortage of vitamin D are prone to getting the virus. https://www.insider.com/vitamin-d-deficiency-may-be-linked-more-severe-coronavirus-2020-5

If it was found how younger people seem to be able to shake off the virus easily,(and how simple that would be to if it was something like more Vit D needed) along with the vaccination, Covid 19 could be eradicated, just as smallpox was.

Wishful thinking though.

by Original Quill Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:25 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I think that time-lapse has happened. There is no known barrier to the virus moving into younger age brackets. The virus will attack any organism it can get to...but something is blocking it from getting to younger children.

Personally, I believe it's that children still have an abundance of vitamin D, as empirically, children who have a shortage of vitamin D are prone to getting the virus. https://www.insider.com/vitamin-d-deficiency-may-be-linked-more-severe-coronavirus-2020-5

If it was found how younger people seem to be able to shake off the virus easily,(and how simple that would be to if it was something like more Vit D needed) along with the vaccination, Covid 19 could be eradicated, just as smallpox was.

Wishful thinking though.

You presume that Vitamin D research is easy. I didn't say that. Nor is it yet established that this is the blocker with children under age 12. I only say that there is a strong association.

Not "wishful thinking", but 'leads' to check out. The more we learn, the more we know.

by Tommy Monk Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:09 pm

Smallpox is nothing like covid.

by Original Quill Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:19 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Smallpox is nothing like covid.

They say it's a disease. It's an infectious disease. They say it's a virus. Smallpox has a fever and a distinctive, progressive skin rash - dermatologists have noticed an increasing number of Covid patients presenting with an unusual rash: red-purple, tender or itchy bumps. They also say both diseases are deadly to humans.

It has that much in common with Covid.

by Tommy Monk Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:25 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Smallpox is nothing like covid.

by Original Quill Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Smallpox is nothing like covid.

But, 'ees hardly an authority! Twisted Evil

It has already been pointed out:

Original Quill wrote:It's an infectious disease. They say it's a virus. Smallpox has a fever and a distinctive, progressive skin rash - dermatologists have noticed an increasing number of Covid patients presenting with an unusual rash: red-purple, tender or itchy bumps. They also say both diseases are deadly to humans.

So, that much is like Covid. In what way is smallpox dissimilar to Covid?

Also, there is a difference to be made between clinical similarity and public health similarity. Public Health differs from medicine in that medicine deals with the curing of a single patient, whereas public health deals, inter alia, with the spread of infectious disease, transmission factors and generally, with the "public" issues of disease.

Both smallpox and Covid are public health hazards.

by Syl Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:37 pm

All viruses and infections are different from each other, that's what makes them hard to get rid of.

One thing smallpox and Covid do have in common is the vaccination programme has helped stop the spread.
In the case of smallpox the vaccination killed it completely.
Without the covid vaccination millions more would have already died.

If more people took the vaccinations less would be dying.

by Tommy Monk Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:29 pm

Smallpox killed 30-40% of those who contracted it, and most of those it didn't kill were left with nasty scarring all over their bodies.

So... Nothing like covid.

So stop talking shite!

by Original Quill Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:47 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Smallpox killed 30-40% of those who contracted it, and most of those it didn't kill were left with nasty scarring all over their bodies.

So... Nothing like covid.

So stop talking shite!

Prove it.

by Syl Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Smallpox killed 30-40% of those who contracted it, and most of those it didn't kill were left with nasty scarring all over their bodies.

So... Nothing like covid.

So stop talking shite!

You don't have to resort to rudeness. snobby

Without the covid vaccination millions more people would have dies....without the smallpox vaccination a much higher % of people would have died...Fact.

Smallpox left scarring, Covid is leaving many long term effects on some people who have had it.

by Tommy Monk Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:05 pm

Recently been hearing on news that a large proportion of people claiming they have 'long covid' don't actually have anything to do with covid at all...

And... Given that half the UK population had already had covid by the beginning of this year, and now likely over 50 million have had it, this in itself would already deliver quite a high level of herd immunity.

by Tommy Monk Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Smallpox killed 30-40% of those who contracted it, and most of those it didn't kill were left with nasty scarring all over their bodies.

So... Nothing like covid.

So stop talking shite!

Prove it.

I just did...

by Vintage Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:28 pm

Ask the antivaxxers that have contracted covid what they think now - oh, you can't, most of them are dead. Could try a clairvoyant I suppose.

by Original Quill Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:58 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Prove it.

I just did...

If that's your proof, you just lost! Laughing

by Tommy Monk Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:15 pm

Vintage wrote:Ask the antivaxxers that have contracted covid what they think now - oh, you can't, most of them are dead. Could try a clairvoyant I suppose.

That is just not true.

Half the UK population had covid by the beginning of this year, Jan 2021.

And that was before any vaccine was available.

by Tommy Monk Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

I just did...

If that's your proof, you just lost!

You obviously know nothing about smallpox.

What I said is easy for you to check and confirm.

by Original Quill Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:34 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

If that's your proof, you just lost!

You obviously know nothing about smallpox.

What I said is easy for you to check and confirm.

You want me to do your research for you? I don't even agree with you.

Nor do I agree that we are talking about the same subject. The topic is public health, and the specific issue for the world is transmissibility. I don't care about clinical symptoms, except insofar as they are a threat; all a disease has to have in common with Smallpox is posing as a danger to a wide swath of human life. That is the public health concern with infectious diseases.

by HoratioTarr Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:26 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Recently been hearing on news that a large proportion of people claiming they have 'long covid' don't actually have anything to do with covid at all...

And... Given that half the UK population had already had covid by the beginning of this year, and now likely over 50 million have had it, this in itself would already deliver quite a high level of herd immunity.

I do believe that there are long term affects from COVID because of the mechanism of the human immune system. When you fuck with it, you pay the price.

Having said this, I'm finding it hard to believe all the claims of period pains due to it. The next thing we know every ache and pain will be COVID related and therefore an excuse to take time off work etc.

What amazed and appalled me during this lockdown is when people queued for ages to get a MacDonalds after the first initial ease off. Fast food is full of trans fats - a known danger that is responsible for developing:

Heart disease
Strokes
Liver dysfunction
Type 2 diabetes
Alzheimers
Infertility

It shuts down the immune system. There have been a number of calls for trans fats to be banned in the UK. Bans on trans fats currently exist in Denmark, Switzerland, Austria and certain US states, including New York and California. Don't eat the bloody stuff, seriously!

People really need to educate themselves about what the hell they put in their bodies. Hydrogenated oils are THE worst.

by Tommy Monk Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:43 am

Quill... I don't want you to do the research for me... I already know what I'm talking about... I just want you to educate yourself a little bit about what you are talking about...

And HT... aren't you just being a bit 'trans phobic'...?

lol!

by Syl Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:25 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Recently been hearing on news that a large proportion of people claiming they have 'long covid' don't actually have anything to do with covid at all...

And... Given that half the UK population had already had covid by the beginning of this year, and now likely over 50 million have had it, this in itself would already deliver quite a high level of herd immunity.

I do believe that there are long term affects from COVID because of the mechanism of the human immune system. When you fuck with it, you pay the price.

Having said this, I'm finding it hard to believe all the claims of period pains due to it. The next thing we know every ache and pain will be COVID related and therefore an excuse to take time off work etc.

What amazed and appalled me during this lockdown is when people queued for ages to get a MacDonalds after the first initial ease off. Fast food is full of trans fats - a known danger that is responsible for developing:

Heart disease
Strokes
Liver dysfunction
Type 2 diabetes
Alzheimers
Infertility

It shuts down the immune system. There have been a number of calls for trans fats to be banned in the UK. Bans on trans fats currently exist in Denmark, Switzerland, Austria and certain US states, including New York and California. Don't eat the bloody stuff, seriously!

People really need to educate themselves about what the hell they put in their bodies. Hydrogenated oils are THE worst.

A strange possible long covid effect that scientists are now investigating....
Many hairdressers have reported women have now become allergic to hair dyes and are having bad reactions.
Possibly because of changes to the immune system after having caught covid.

by Original Quill Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Quill... I don't want you to do the research for me... I already know what I'm talking about... I just want you to educate yourself a little bit about what you are talking about...

Do you have anything of substance?

by Tommy Monk Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:30 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I do believe that there are long term affects from COVID because of the mechanism of the human immune system. When you fuck with it, you pay the price.

Having said this, I'm finding it hard to believe all the claims of period pains due to it. The next thing we know every ache and pain will be COVID related and therefore an excuse to take time off work etc.

What amazed and appalled me during this lockdown is when people queued for ages to get a MacDonalds after the first initial ease off. Fast food is full of trans fats - a known danger that is responsible for developing:

Heart disease
Strokes
Liver dysfunction
Type 2 diabetes
Alzheimers
Infertility

It shuts down the immune system. There have been a number of calls for trans fats to be banned in the UK. Bans on trans fats currently exist in Denmark, Switzerland, Austria and certain US states, including New York and California. Don't eat the bloody stuff, seriously!

People really need to educate themselves about what the hell they put in their bodies. Hydrogenated oils are THE worst.

A strange possible long covid effect that scientists are now investigating....
Many hairdressers have reported women have now become allergic to hair dyes and are having bad reactions.
Possibly because of changes to the immune system after having caught covid.

Or changes to the body after having had one of the vaccines...?

Or maybe just more sensitive to these hair products after a long period of not having used any of them?

by Syl Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:40 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:

A strange possible long covid effect that scientists are now investigating....
Many hairdressers have reported women have now become allergic to hair dyes and are having bad reactions.
Possibly because of changes to the immune system after having caught covid.

Or changes to the body after having had one of the vaccines...?

Or maybe just more sensitive to these hair products after a long period of not having used any of them?

The reports are women who have actually had covid not the vaccination.

Your second sentence is more plausible.

by eddie Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:17 pm

The Coronavirus is akin to the common cold - it mutates continuously - so how do you vaccinate against a continually changing virus?

You can’t.

The flu virus mutates about once a year, which is why people are given the vaccine against the previous years mutation.

The Corona virus isn’t like that.

by Original Quill Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:14 am

eddie wrote:The Coronavirus is akin to the common cold - it mutates continuously - so how do you vaccinate against a continually changing virus?

You can’t.

The flu virus mutates about once a year, which is why people are given the vaccine against the previous years mutation.

The Corona virus isn’t like that.

Substantiation, please? There are sooooo many rumors. Rolling Eyes

by Tommy Monk Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:12 am

Syl wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Or changes to the body after having had one of the vaccines...?

Or maybe just more sensitive to these hair products after a long period of not having used any of them?

The reports are women who have actually had covid not the vaccination.

Your second sentence is more plausible.

Are you saying that none of these women have had a vaccine...?

by Syl Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Syl wrote:

The reports are women who have actually had covid not the vaccination.

Your second sentence is more plausible.

Are you saying that none of these women have had a vaccine...?

No, I leave sweeping statements like that to you.

I said that after many women claimed to have sudden allergic reactions to hair dye after catching Covid, scientists are investigating how the virus could alter the immune system to cause this.

https://touch.facebook.com/watch/?v=162549339381799&_rdr

by Vintage Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:07 pm

eddie wrote:The Coronavirus is akin to the common cold - it mutates continuously - so how do you vaccinate against a continually changing virus?

You can’t.

The flu virus mutates about once a year, which is why people are given the vaccine against the previous years mutation.

The Corona virus isn’t like that.

Its not against last years flu virus that would e a waste of time and money, it done with a gestimate of the next likely mutation to reach any particular country/region.

by Original Quill Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:08 pm

eddie wrote:The Coronavirus is akin to the common cold - it mutates continuously - so how do you vaccinate against a continually changing virus?

You can’t.

The flu virus mutates about once a year, which is why people are given the vaccine against the previous years mutation.

The Corona virus isn’t like that.

Got my flu shot, and my third Covid shot (booster) last week. The only inconvenience was the time it took out of my busy day...a few minutes, at best.

People have a one-dimensional perspective about these infectious illnesses: what's in it for me! They see disease only in how it affects their personal lives. That is borne of the selfish and individualistic thinking of our conservative ideology - and lo, where do we see it (in the US) but in our southern, conservative states. That kind of thinking is rampant in Florida, Arkansas, Texas and Arizona, where they are already out of hospital beds, never mind ventilators.

If we thought more in terms of the community, we would care more about who else gets sick. If you like...think of it as enlightened self-interest: when we eradicate it community-wide, it will be less apt to affect us by coming back around again in mutated form. We remove the rotational part of the infectious disease cycle, and we give it only one shot at us.

by eddie Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:17 pm

Yeah, three shots in one year. How many more, do you reckon?

by Original Quill Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:45 pm

eddie wrote:Yeah, three shots in one year. How many more, do you reckon?

As many as it takes. Sure is better than dying in a hospital bed, with a tubes down my throat and out my nose.

Using mathematical models, scientist looked at 98 countries where a lot of people are infected with such diseases. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32657-X/fulltext They wanted to measure the benefits of vaccination for them. They found that vaccination saved 37 million lives between 2000 and 2019! They then projected that it could save 32 million more by 2030.

https://sciencejournalforkids.org/articles/how-many-lives-do-vaccines-save/

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