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Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats.

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Post by Syl Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:08 am

A record 13,500 migrants have crossed the Channel in small boats this year, including at least 1,000 this week.
The UK has just paid a further 55 million to France, to fund another clampdown on small boat crossings from France to England....obviously it doesn't seem to have helped.




Priti Patel is set to anger France by moving ahead with plans to forcibly redirect migrant boats back across the Channel, despite warnings about the impact such a tactic would have on Anglo-French relations.

The home secretary is said to have ordered officials to rewrite maritime laws to allow Border Force to turn boats around before they reach England.

It follows a G7 interior minister's meeting on Wednesday when Ms Patel told her French counterpart that the UK public "expect to see results" from French efforts to prevent ongoing migrant crossings.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58495948?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boris-johnson-news-live-patel-plan-to-return-migrant-boats-to-france-not-going-to-work-senior-tory-admits/ar-AAOfsSi?ocid=msedgntp

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Post by Vintage Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:50 am

I think the French attitude to all this is already having an impact on Anglo - French relations.
They seem reluctant to patrol the coast of Calais, even eager to escort the boats into British waters, won't accept them back by ferry or luxury cruise, how much worse can it be after accepting £55 million to do the job.

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:52 pm




About bloody time!


The French failure to do anything about the thousands of them congregating in areas near the north coast of France is seriously pissing off the locals over there too!


As I've said all along... This will never stop while we keep letting them stay here once they get here... We need to remove the Africans back to the African Union to sort out and the middle Eastern ones back to the Arab League to sort out.


Far too many for far too long have been abusing out asylum rules as a back door way of gaining entry to our country and being allowed to stay.


None of these people are genuine asylum seekers fleeing for safety from their own country because they have all travelled through numerous safe countries without seeking refuge there.



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Post by Original Quill Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:24 pm

All it takes is one tragic death of a child, and the rewriting of "maritime laws to allow Border Force to turn boats around before they reach England" will be decided in public sentiment.

We had this very problem during Trump's closing of our southern border by force:

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. Mexico_us_border_migrant_deaths

I'm not making a 'right/wrong' call.  I'm just saying, save yourselves a world of bad press and further grief.


Last edited by Original Quill on Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Syl Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:29 pm

I believe many are genuine, the problem is there are no checks done, so undesirables could be amongst the ever increasing number landing here.

I think the 150 million so far given to France, including the latest top up of 55 million, is money wasted....though the home secretary is now threatening to hold some of the money back.

LIVE – Updated at 16:11


"France won’t be “blackmailed” by the UK over Priti Patel’s plans to crack down on migrant crossings in the English Channel, the country’s interior minister has said.

Gérald Darmanin insisted France won’t accept any “financial blackmail” from the UK after the home secretary threatened to withhold millions of pounds promised to France in order to fund efforts to intercept small ships in the Channel carrying migrants.

Mr Darmanin also said Paris would reject any practices which break maritime law in response to Ms Patel’s plans to turn migrant boats around when the reach England.

Meanwhile, a coordinator with Channel Rescue has warned that such action could put “the lives of thousands of innocent women, children and men have been put at greater risk”.



https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boris-johnson-news-live-france-brands-patel-s-migrant-plan-blackmail-amid-warning-move-will-cost-lives/ar-AAOfsSi?ocid=msedgntp

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:32 pm




None are genuine if they travel through safe countries without seeking refuge.



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Post by Syl Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:32 pm

Original Quill wrote:All it takes is one tragic death of a child, and the rewriting of "maritime laws to allow Border Force to turn boats around before they reach England" will be decided in public sentiment.

We had this very problem during Trump's closing of our southern border by force:

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. Mexico_us_border_migrant_deaths

I'm not making a 'right/wrong' call.  I'm just saying, save yourselves some bad press and further grief.


That was a tragic case, I'm sure there are hundreds others that never make the headlines
People have to be incredibly desperate to risk their lives and the lives of their children in this way.

But....there has to be some way of controlling who comes into the country, and it seems France are not doing what they are being paid well to do.

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Post by Original Quill Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:45 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:All it takes is one tragic death of a child, and the rewriting of "maritime laws to allow Border Force to turn boats around before they reach England" will be decided in public sentiment.

We had this very problem during Trump's closing of our southern border by force:

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. Mexico_us_border_migrant_deaths

I'm not making a 'right/wrong' call.  I'm just saying, save yourselves some bad press and further grief.


That was a tragic case, I'm sure there are hundreds others that never make the headlines
People have to be incredibly desperate to risk their lives and the lives of their children in this way.

But....there has to be some way of controlling who comes into the country, and it seems France are not doing what they are being paid well to do.

It doesn't matter. Public sentiment is undeterred by legal distinctions. Photographs color issues...and the above photo painted our issue in blood red.

You will become borderline Nazis if England causes the death of one child.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

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Post by Syl Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:


That was a tragic case, I'm sure there are hundreds others that never make the headlines
People have to be incredibly desperate to risk their lives and the lives of their children in this way.

But....there has to be some way of controlling who comes into the country, and it seems France are not doing what they are being paid well to do.

It doesn't matter.  Public sentiment is undeterred by legal distinctions.  Photographs color issues...and the above photo painted our issue in blood red.

You will become borderline Nazis if England causes the death of one child.

That sounds like a blackmailing technique.
Are France not causing many deaths by not stopping the boats leaving from their shores?

We also have to protect the children in this country, and letting thousands of asylum seekers in without checks, is not the way to do it.

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Post by Original Quill Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:29 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It doesn't matter.  Public sentiment is undeterred by legal distinctions.  Photographs color issues...and the above photo painted our issue in blood red.

You will become borderline Nazis if England causes the death of one child.

That sounds like a blackmailing technique.
Are France not causing many deaths by not stopping the boats leaving from their shores?

We also have to protect the children in this country, and letting thousands of asylum seekers in without checks, is not the way to do it.

Who is doing the "blackmailing"? The public - while it has strong opinions - does not have a single purpose.

If anything, it's reality. Just because chance favors one side or another in some political/legal difference, does not alter the picture (no pun intended). I can see the headlines now: England's Border Force Brings Death to Children!...followed by a pointed, vivid photo of a dead 2-year old floating in the water.

As far as protecting "the children in this country" are concerned, you don't have an impassioned photo of them, do you?

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:All it takes is one tragic death of a child, and the rewriting of "maritime laws to allow Border Force to turn boats around before they reach England" will be decided in public sentiment.

We had this very problem during Trump's closing of our southern border by force:

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. Mexico_us_border_migrant_deaths

I'm not making a 'right/wrong' call.  I'm just saying, save yourselves a world of bad press and further grief.



They should have stayed where they were and they would still be alive...



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Post by Maddog Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:06 pm

France needs to make these people feel more welcome... Cool


The poor and downtrodden are always a political hot potato to be moved along to someone else's jurisdiction.

Its worse in Europe where these people are guaranteed a great deal in the form of benefits. It becomes an economic amd financial problem.


It's why Ben and Eddie had to jump through so many hoops for Ben to become legal.

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Post by Original Quill Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:13 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:All it takes is one tragic death of a child, and the rewriting of "maritime laws to allow Border Force to turn boats around before they reach England" will be decided in public sentiment.

We had this very problem during Trump's closing of our southern border by force:

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. Mexico_us_border_migrant_deaths

I'm not making a 'right/wrong' call.  I'm just saying, save yourselves a world of bad press and further grief.

They should have stayed where they were and they would still be alive...

I know your position, tommy.  I'm saying only that it won't play well with public sentiment.  And public sentiment determines votes...and the plurality of votes determines policy out of Whitehall. A hard line could backfire, as Trump found out.


Last edited by Original Quill on Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Syl Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:13 pm

We have many thousands of potential terrorists living here, no doubt many of them came here, legally or illegally, seeking asylum.
Every one of them is a possible risk to the children of this country.


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Post by Tommy Monk Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:14 pm



Public sentiment is mostly the same as my position...



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Post by Original Quill Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Public sentiment is mostly the same as my position...

Yes...until that photograph of a dead 2-year old appears on the front page of the Times. Twisted Evil

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Original Quill Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:24 pm

Syl wrote:We have many thousands of potential terrorists living here, no doubt many of them came here, legally or illegally, seeking asylum.
Every one of them is a possible risk to the children of this country.

Alas...but not that dead 2-year old.  When his/her picture appears in the papers, it will be devastating.  Evil or Very Mad

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Syl Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:27 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:We have many thousands of potential terrorists living here, no doubt many of them came here, legally or illegally, seeking asylum.
Every one of them is a possible risk to the children of this country.

Alas...but not that dead 2-year old.  When his/her picture appears in the papers, it will be devastating.  Evil or Very Mad

Oh, we have plenty images of our own that have made the front pages.

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. Manche11

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Post by Syl Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:36 pm

I am not for turning flimsy boats around in the middle of the sea, but just to allow them to flock here unchecked in their thousands is just as wrong.
France has to take responsibility. The people should be safely escorted back to the coast which they left.

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Post by Original Quill Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:39 pm

Anyone who looks like this?

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. _107059341_054016992

I'm not saying any old pretty picture will evoke public sympathy.  I'm contemplating a picture of a dead child.

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. _107009644_gettyimages-1074813262

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Syl Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:44 pm

Nobody wants to see any child die, be it drown at sea or blown to bloody pieces on land.




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Post by Original Quill Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:50 pm

Syl wrote:Nobody wants to see any child die, be it drown at sea or blown to bloody pieces on land.

That's why photographs are so powerful.  Watch yourselves, England.  All I'm sayings is, you're skating on thin ice.

The next picture might be this:

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. FACEBOOK-share-image-KILLED-BY-BP

Or this:

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. EFo50SnXYAIXyGw

Then the questions begin:

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. GettyImages_965624104.0

Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. New-yorkers-came-out-to-protest-the-government-immigrration-policy-of-separating-children-from-parents-at-the-us-mexican-border-as-cruel-and-immoral-and-must-be-stopped-immediately-protests-around-the-country-pressured-the-trump-administration-to-initially-end-this-un-american-action-by-the-department-of-immigration-in-the-united-states-P7J3GB

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:09 pm

Syl wrote:Nobody wants to see any child die, be it drown at sea or blown to bloody pieces on land.




Quill might.

If it's a southerner. Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. 4214183177

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Post by Original Quill Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:37 pm

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:Nobody wants to see any child die, be it drown at sea or blown to bloody pieces on land.

Quill might.

If it's a southerner.  Border force are being trained to turn back migrant boats. 4214183177

That is a wholly different question, having naught to do with immigration.

BTW, I ask only that people not insult me by suggesting that southerners are my fellow-citizens. I'm not trying to insist that the south is already another country.  The rest of the US and I merely want no part, or association with the south.  Southerners can go on about their way without implicating the rest of America.

That is a determination of my capacity, and my right to determine my status.  Amexit.  Wink

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Syl Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:39 am

Some topics should rise above petty forum squabbles...one would think. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:27 pm




"...A total of 31 late-stage terror plots have been foiled in the UK in the past four years, the head of MI5 has said.

Director general Ken McCallum, who revealed in October there had been 27 attacks thwarted since 2017..."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58512901



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Post by Original Quill Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:34 pm

Syl wrote:Some topics should rise above petty forum squabbles...one would think. Rolling Eyes

I agree. For this reason I have tried to ignore the squabbler-in-chief, and move on to more significant matters. But the southern thing is serious business. If you don't think so, ask yourself: why did they start a civil war over something so out-of-date as slavery?

The FBI now says that the most significant terrorist threats are not from Muslim sources, not from Irish sources, not even from East Timorese sources, but from domestic sources. Where exactly? Who are they? They are southern, Anti-government, white supremacists.

How did the most advanced, wealthiest nation in the world come up with a sub-population of mad, violent, irrational idiots? Because we tolerated them, and nurtured them, like they were Loki's in our midst. Because they are a cancer from within, they have access to all of our powers and capabilities of the greatest show on earth. The next civil war will not be a quaint fracas, fought with muzzle-loaders and on horseback. They will be home-grown fruit, quite used to the most modern of capabilities, but allowed to grow up with the lack of cerebral discipline and intelligence that all the other modern folks possess.

So don't take the issue as "petty forum squabbles". It's just such light-heartedness that overwhelms you when the cute, tiger kitten grows into a monster.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:36 pm

Syl wrote:Some topics should rise above petty forum squabbles...one would think. Rolling Eyes

I don't see any reason to rise above anything with Quill. It's a waste of time.

I'll engage now and then with everyone else on this forum (when there is something to discuss) and fuck with Quill. He deserves no better.

TBH, I look at this as Quills forum to a great degree. I know you try to keep the place engaged and entertaining, and I respect you a great deal for that, but it's just no fun and not interesting around here anymore.


But upon further reflection, I see your point and should just ignore Quill more and let those that find some value in discussing things with him, carry on.



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pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Original Quill Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:"...A total of 31 late-stage terror plots have been foiled in the UK in the past four years, the head of MI5 has said.

Director general Ken McCallum, who revealed in October there had been 27 attacks thwarted since 2017..."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58512901

Sounds like some civil servant over at M15 is trying to build a case for a bigger budget.  Anyway, there's no proof that it has to do with the issue of Channel policing by Border Forces.  As McCullum says, "...but a 'growing number' were planned by right-wing terrorists..." who don't have anything to do with immigration.

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:52 pm




Yeah ok... Growing from one to two I bet... And also big difference in plots... Islamist plot is about trying to kill hundreds... One of the so called rw plots was a teenager who tried to make a 3d printed gun because he was pissed off with his mate cos he kept bragging about having loads of sex with white girls...




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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:54 pm




https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/03/neo-nazi-teen-who-tried-to-kill-asian-friend-with-3d-gun-found-guilty-15205060/




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Post by Original Quill Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:58 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/03/neo-nazi-teen-who-tried-to-kill-asian-friend-with-3d-gun-found-guilty-15205060/

Sorry tom, but that site is blocked on this side of the pond. Can you c&p?

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Post by Original Quill Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Yeah ok... Growing from one to two I bet... And also big difference in plots... Islamist plot is about trying to kill hundreds... One of the so called rw plots was a teenager who tried to make a 3d printed gun because he was pissed off with his mate cos he kept bragging about having loads of sex with white girls...

Still...nothing to do with immigrants and Border Forces turning back boats from French shores.  That's a home-grown matter, which increasingly, the terrorist trade is full of.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:07 pm










This is the article... And the young so called "neo nazi terrorist" teenager suffers from autism...






Neo-Nazi teen who tried to kill Asian friend with 3D printed gun guilty of terror offences
author image
Gergana KrastevaFriday 3 Sep 2021 10:58 pm
Teen neo-Nazi likened his teenage friend, who is Asian, to a 'cockroach'
Teen neo-Nazi likened his teenage friend, who is Asian, to a ‘cockroach’ (Picture: Counter Terrorism Policing North East/ Getty Images)

A teenage ‘boss’ of a neo-Nazi cell who plotted to kill his Asian friend has been convicted of terror offences.

Matthew Cronjager, 18, worked towards obtaining 3D printed guns or a sawn-off shotgun as he wanted to shoot the man who boasted about sleeping with ‘white chicks’.

Alongside plotting to murder his teenage target who he likened to a ‘cockroach’, the defendant had also set himself up as the leader of a network of right-wing extremists.

The Old Bailey heard that he also set up an online library to share right-wing propaganda and explosives-making manuals with like-minded people he had met on the dark web.

But to Cronjager’s surprise, he was sharing his plans with an undercover police officer who had infiltrated a Telegram group called The British Hand.




Cronjager, of Ingatestone in Essex, who is on the autistic spectrum, denied he ever meant to do anything.




Cronjager, 18, tried to get hold of a 3D printed gun or a sawn-off shotgun (Picture: Counter Terrorism Policing North)
Cronjager, 18, tried to get hold of a 3D printed gun or a sawn-off shotgun (Picture: Counter Terrorism Policing North)


According to evidence heard in court, he told an undercover police officer: ‘I know it’s an overall target and he’s a sand n***** that f***** a white girl. In fact I think three of them. They’re like cockroaches,” the court heard.

‘Do you know what’s weird. I was friends with him for ages and I can just kill him like that. I have no hang ups about doing it. He crossed the line.’

The police officer asked whether the girls had been raped and Cronjager is accused of saying: ‘Nope, but it’s a violation of nature.

‘We’re not supposed to mix race … It’s not rape by legal definition but it’s kind of like rape if that makes sense. Violation at least.’

The teenager ‘renounced’ his extremist views in court, saying they were born out of loneliness and misery.

Cronjager previously pleaded guilty to four offences of possessing information useful to a terrorist.

He was remanded in custody to be sentenced in October.

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:18 pm



Here's an example of a real terrorist attack...


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack


Khuram Shahzad Butt, born in Pakistan.


Rachid Redouane (born 31 July 1986) was a failed asylum seeker in the UK, whose application was denied in 2009, and not previously known to police. He had claimed to be either Moroccan or Libyan.


Youssef Zaghba, 22, was born in the Moroccan city of Fez.






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Post by Original Quill Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:33 pm

According to evidence heard in court, he told an undercover police officer: ‘I know it’s an overall target and he’s a sand n***** that f***** a white girl. In fact I think three of them. They’re like cockroaches,” the court heard.

‘Do you know what’s weird. I was friends with him for ages and I can just kill him like that. I have no hang ups about doing it. He crossed the line.’

Ty for the c&p of your article.  Sounds like a delusional teen, with a personal problem.  There is nothing to suggest a connection to immigration, the Channel, boats or the Border Forces.  Seems, in Cronjager's deranged mind, he himself may have made a connection between his Asian friend and some ersatz "violation of nature [his words]", whatever that means.

We get a lot of RW southerners who cross-confuse blacks with crime, in order to justify their own racial violence. Dylann Roof, who shot and killed 9 black people in a Bible Study class in South Carolina in 2015, because in his words, "You rape our women and you're taking over our country", is very much like your case.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting

The fact that Cronjager is a member of a RW order, and that he makes up "violations of nature" in his mind, is suggestive of that sort of anger, coupled with some mental derangement.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:49 pm




He is an autistic nerd who spent too much time sitting in his bedroom on his own and dicking about on the internet. And pissed off with one of his Asian friends because he was bragging about getting more sex than he got. A nothing really in the terms of terrist plots.


That was the so called rw terror plot.


But the rest were Islamists planning to bring carnage to the streets of the UK.



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Post by Original Quill Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:05 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:He is an autistic nerd who spent too much time sitting in his bedroom on his own and dicking about on the internet. And pissed off with one of his Asian friends because he was bragging about getting more sex than he got. A nothing really in the terms of terrist plots.

That was the so called rw terror plot.

But the rest were Islamists planning to bring carnage to the streets of the UK.

Still...your "autistic nerd" is a confused mind...running around with RW groups.  Sounds a bit like southern, Anti-government, white supremacists to me.

Our crazies on Jan. 6th, simply refused to believe election results (the Big Lie), and ransacked the national capital looking to kill their own Vice President, who was in the process of certifying the election.  There is a common thread running in both cases...RW, violence prone, racist, and extremist.

It says nothing whatsoever about Cronjager's victim, his mindset or what his intentions were??  Is he Islamist?  For all we know, he could he be a gay ex-lover?!  In the article, he's just...well, "the victim".

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Tommy Monk Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:22 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Here's an example of a real terrorist attack...


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack


Khuram Shahzad Butt, born in Pakistan.


Rachid Redouane (born 31 July 1986) was a failed asylum seeker in the UK, whose application was denied in 2009, and not previously known to police. He had claimed to be either Moroccan or Libyan.


Youssef Zaghba, 22, was born in the Moroccan city of Fez.






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Post by Original Quill Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Here's an example of a real terrorist attack...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack

Khuram Shahzad Butt, born in Pakistan.

Rachid Redouane (born 31 July 1986) was a failed asylum seeker in the UK, whose application was denied in 2009, and not previously known to police. He had claimed to be either Moroccan or Libyan.

Youssef Zaghba, 22, was born in the Moroccan city of Fez.

I'm well aware of Muslim-motivated terrorist attacks. Tomorrow will be the 20-year anniversary of the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon by 20 Saudis, living in Germany.

It's just that Muslims have been replaced in numbers by RW-motivated internal terrorist attacks - a completely different issue. Now this thread is aimed at Border Force turn-backs of immigrants from French shores. It adds nothing to recount Muslim attacks from 2017. We might as well bring up anarchists attacks in NYC from 1920 - and still it wouldn't be relevant to turning back boats in the Channel by the Border Force. https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/wall-street-bombing-1920

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Ben Reilly Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:21 pm

Vintage wrote:I think the French attitude to all this is already having an impact on Anglo - French relations.
They seem reluctant to patrol the coast of Calais, even eager to escort the boats into British waters, won't accept them back by ferry or luxury cruise, how much worse can it be after accepting £55 million to do the job.

Was going to say the same thing -- the French don't seem to give half a fuck about Anglo-French relations.

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Post by Original Quill Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:33 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Vintage wrote:I think the French attitude to all this is already having an impact on Anglo - French relations.
They seem reluctant to patrol the coast of Calais, even eager to escort the boats into British waters, won't accept them back by ferry or luxury cruise, how much worse can it be after accepting £55 million to do the job.

Was going to say the same thing -- the French don't seem to give half a fuck about Anglo-French relations.

France has bought into the EU, whereas the UK is seen as hostile to it. I think the French - the entire European community, really - view Britain as the 'bad guys' on the humanitarian front. So they're not going to help Britain cleanse the immigrants who want in. It is manifested in the nonchalant attitude of French patrols.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Fred Moletrousers Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

Was going to say the same thing -- the French don't seem to give half a fuck about Anglo-French relations.

France has bought into the EU, whereas the UK is seen as hostile to it.  I think the French - the entire European community, really - view Britain as the 'bad guys' on the humanitarian front.  So they're not going to help Britain cleanse the immigrants who want in.  It is manifested in the nonchalant attitude of French patrols.

France has not “bought” into the EU; France and Germany were the two leading originators of the European Coal and Steel Community (Italy, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg were the junior partners) that eventually morphed into the European Union, a trading bloc, membership of which Britain voted after being kept out for years by the Brit- hating French President de Gaulle.

It’s ironic that even now, with Macron still peddling de Gaulle’s anglophobia, EU lead Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has developed presidential ambitions which include his country’s withdrawal from EU judicial systems on the grounds of constant meddling and interference in French government justice and border protection policies….one of the key reasons for the U.K. “no” vote.

The fact is no-one wants the “rubber dinghy” people…and France is more than happy to shove the problem across the 22 mile wide English Channel is spite of bribes and so-called legally abiding agreements to police their coastline in order to prevent them leaving. They are NOT refugees and asylum seekers as some suggest; they are overwhelmingly economic migrants - young Asian and African men who deliberately destroy their passports and other legal documents so the authorities have no idea who they are, where they have come from or whether or not they are “sleeper jihadists.” Undoubtedly some are.

The number of true refugees from oppression, for whom we have an obligation of sanctity, and of vulnerable women and children is very, very small as TV coverage of the invasion (I use the word deliberately) proves.

I genuinely fear for the future of my country from this flood of migrants…and it has to be stopped by whatever means.

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Post by Tommy Monk Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:27 pm





Well said Miley!


Our national security is paramount.


And these large hoardes of illegal immigrants are a threat to it.



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Post by Syl Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:



Well said Miley!


Our national security is paramount.


And these large hoardes of illegal immigrants are a threat to it.



I dont think anyone but Quill could argue with the post, but then, he doesn't live here does he.

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Post by HoratioTarr Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:20 pm

Syl wrote:I am not for turning flimsy boats around in the middle of the sea, but just to allow them to flock here unchecked in their thousands is just as wrong.
France has to take responsibility. The people should be safely escorted back to the coast which they left.

And just what is their reality once they get here? There are no roads paved with gold. In the long term, nada. They have to find work and pay their taxes like everyone else. They won't get benefits for ever. Specially not all those young, healthy men. Most of them will just get dead end jobs. I don't believe they are all seeking asylum. I think the majority are seeking a better financial life. Most will be sorely disappointed.
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Post by HoratioTarr Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:23 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

France has bought into the EU, whereas the UK is seen as hostile to it.  I think the French - the entire European community, really - view Britain as the 'bad guys' on the humanitarian front.  So they're not going to help Britain cleanse the immigrants who want in.  It is manifested in the nonchalant attitude of French patrols.

France has not “bought” into the EU; France and Germany were the two leading originators of the European Coal and Steel Community (Italy, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg were the junior partners) that eventually morphed into the European Union, a trading bloc, membership of which Britain voted after being kept out for years by the Brit- hating French President de Gaulle.

It’s ironic that even now, with Macron still peddling de Gaulle’s anglophobia, EU lead Brexit negotiator Michel  Barnier has developed presidential ambitions which include his country’s withdrawal from EU judicial systems on the grounds of constant meddling and interference in French government justice and border protection policies….one of the key reasons for the U.K. “no” vote.

The fact is no-one wants the “rubber dinghy” people…and France is more than happy to shove the problem across the 22 mile wide English Channel is spite of bribes and so-called legally abiding agreements to police their coastline in order to prevent them leaving. They are NOT refugees and asylum seekers as some suggest; they are overwhelmingly economic migrants - young Asian and African men who deliberately destroy their passports and other legal documents so the authorities have no idea who they are, where they have come from or whether or not they are “sleeper jihadists.” Undoubtedly some are.

The number of true refugees from oppression, for whom we have an obligation of sanctity, and of vulnerable women and children is very, very small as TV coverage of the invasion (I use the word deliberately) proves.

I genuinely fear for the future of my country from this flood of migrants…and it has to be stopped by whatever means.


I suspect, many years from now when most of us are gone, if this continues, there will be a civil war in this country.
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Post by HoratioTarr Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

Was going to say the same thing -- the French don't seem to give half a fuck about Anglo-French relations.

France has bought into the EU, whereas the UK is seen as hostile to it.  I think the French - the entire European community, really - view Britain as the 'bad guys' on the humanitarian front.  So they're not going to help Britain cleanse the immigrants who want in.  It is manifested in the nonchalant attitude of French patrols.

The French don't like us. They vetoed our entry into the Common Market many moons ago. Didn't trust us not to take America's side instead of theirs.
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Post by Original Quill Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:01 pm

Fred M. wrote:France has not “bought” into the EU; France and Germany were the two leading originators of the European Coal and Steel Community (Italy, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg were the junior partners) that eventually morphed into the European Union, a trading bloc, membership of which Britain voted after being kept out for years by the Brit- hating French President de Gaulle.

Nevertheless, France is fat and happy inside the EU, while Britain is outside. Whatever...they are on different sides.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Fred Moletrousers Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred M. wrote:France has not “bought” into the EU; France and Germany were the two leading originators of the European Coal and Steel Community (Italy, Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg were the junior partners) that eventually morphed into the European Union, a trading bloc, membership of which Britain voted after being kept out for years by the Brit- hating French President de Gaulle.

Nevertheless, France is fat and happy inside the EU, while Britain is outside.  Whatever...they are on different sides.

Britain being “outside” is actually what most of us voted for. The French may well be fat, but whether they are happy is a different matter. In my experience coming across a happy Frenchman is about as likely as encountering a humorous Belgian.
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